Fluoride in Drinking Water

[Becky]

I just wanted to say this thread is very interesting and I have enjoyed reading all the posts.

I get sick from drinking LA tap water for over 10 years that now I can only have bottled water. weird i know. but that said if we did drink tap I am not sure if that is what i want my daughters to be drinking. It seems that we have no control over the amounts of fluoride that is consumed through drinking tap water which IMO is just not right.

I really don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. Thanks for posting everyone

[Braggi]

... Here's more on tea. Seems like it would be a good anti-cavity mouthwash!
... This study has demonstrated that tea can provide an effective vehicle for fluoride delivery to the oral cavity where it may interact with the oral tissues and their surface integuments. ...

That's one of the things I love about Waccobb. I frequently learn new words here.

integument: 1. A natural outer covering or coat, such as the skin of an animal or the membrane enclosing an organ.
2. Botany The envelope of an ovule.

Thanks, Sylph.

-Jeff

[Sylph]

That's one of the things I love about Waccobb. I frequently learn new words here.

integument: 1. A natural outer covering or coat, such as the skin of an animal or the membrane enclosing an organ.
2. Botany The envelope of an ovule.

Thanks, Sylph.

-Jeff

You're welcome! I didn't know what integument meant exactly, either! Thanks for the definition.

I have some really bad news for all of the oenophiles....
Fluoride is in wine, too! Mostly due to a common pesticide....
I can't afford to drink strictly organic wine!

Here's what the USDA reports for the concentration of fluoride (ppm):
1.15 Tea, green, brewed (23 samples)
2.72 Tea, green, decaffeinated, brewed (10 samples)
3.73 Tea, black, brewed, regular, all (63 samples)
1.05 Wine, red (14 samples)
2.02 Wine, white (17 samples)
2.13 Grape juice, white (12 samples)
2.34 Raisins (1 sample)

Note that 1 ppm = 1 mg/l = 0.24 mg per 8 ounce cup

[MsTerry]

LMAO
thanks for posting the PPM's!
I am on well water, and the natural water is so acidic that it eats away my teeth. (nopunintended) I was always opposed to fluoride, wanting to do things natural, but my teeth were getting so sensitive that i was willing to try the evil elixir.
Now I have extra strength, prescription fluoride!
It is 1,1 ppm, that is less than green tea!
LOL

You're welcome! I didn't know what integument meant exactly, either! Thanks for the definition.

I have some really bad news for all of the oenophiles....
Fluoride is in wine, too! Mostly due to a common pesticide....
I can't afford to drink strictly organic wine!

Here's what the USDA reports for the concentration of fluoride (ppm):
1.15 Tea, green, brewed (23 samples)
2.72 Tea, green, decaffeinated, brewed (10 samples)
3.73 Tea, black, brewed, regular, all (63 samples)
1.05 Wine, red (14 samples)
2.02 Wine, white (17 samples)
2.13 Grape juice, white (12 samples)
2.34 Raisins (1 sample)

Note that 1 ppm = 1 mg/l = 0.24 mg per 8 ounce cup

[d-cat]

Media Cries Foul When County Stops Fluoridating Water

https://www.naturalnews.com/024271.html

[mykil]

I myself have quit using fluoride toothpaste a few years back; I just don't trust the stuff. There is allot to be said about the mind control issues and that it is a bi-product of making metal without a means of disposal, so they put it i nth water???? Not for me I do not even drink water I think may be associated with Fluoride!! My filter takes it out and I like it that way!!!! Just say no to fluoride!!!!! Toms makes a few fluoride free products that are really nice!

[Sylph]

I myself have quit using fluoride toothpaste a few years back; I just don't trust the stuff. There is allot to be said about the mind control issues and that it is a bi-product of making metal without a means of disposal, so they put it i nth water???? Not for me I do not even drink water I think may be associated with Fluoride!! My filter takes it out and I like it that way!!!! Just say no to fluoride!!!!! Toms makes a few fluoride free products that are really nice!

Do you have reverse osmosis or a distilling system? Simple filters don't take fluoride out.
This has been really eye-opening for me. Here is another very interesting site...watch out for fish, cereal, beer, lettuce...the list goes on and on!

https://www.fluoridealert.org/f-sources.htm

[OrchardDweller]

Media Cries Foul When County Stops Fluoridating Water

https://www.naturalnews.com/024271.html

Very interesting article... Here's an excerpt:

After a commercial break it was revealed that the "natural" element they were referring to was Sodium Fluoride. The idea that the fluoride added to municipal water supplies is "natural" is a common myth. While the Calcium Fluoride molecule is the 5th most abundant component of the Earth’s crust, it is Sodium Fluoride (Sodium Hexafluorosilicate), a toxic by-product of Aluminum production and other industries, that is added to the drinking water of most states in the U.S.

[Sylph]

Very interesting article... Here's an excerpt:

After a commercial break it was revealed that the "natural" element they were referring to was Sodium Fluoride. The idea that the fluoride added to municipal water supplies is "natural" is a common myth. While the Calcium Fluoride molecule is the 5th most abundant component of the Earth’s crust, it is Sodium Fluoride (Sodium Hexafluorosilicate), a toxic by-product of Aluminum production and other industries, that is added to the drinking water of most states in the U.S.

That quote is pretty skewed. Fluoride is 'natural' in some areas because it comes from a rock in the ground. The fluoride in tea is 'natural', the plant takes it up and concentrates it in the leaves. No matter where it comes from it (the fluoride ion) has the same effects, good or bad, on the body. Too much of many elements/minerals/vitamins/chemicals are harmful. This is the history of the discovery of the helpful effects of fluoride on teeth from Wiki:

While the use of fluorides for prevention of dental caries (cavities) was discussed in the 19th century in Europe,^[5] community water fluoridation in the United States owes its origin in part to the research of Dr. Frederick McKay, who pressed the dental community for an investigation into what was then known as "Colorado brown stain."^[6] The condition, now known as dental fluorosis, when in its severe form is characterized by cracking and pitting of the teeth.^[7][8][9] Of 2,945 children examined in 1909 by Dr. McKay, 87.5% had some degree of stain or mottling. All the affected children were from the Pikes Peak region. Despite the negative impact on the physical appearance of their teeth, the children with stained, mottled and pitted teeth also had fewer cavities than other children. McKay brought the problem to the attention of Dr. G.V. Black, and Black's interest into the Colorado stain led to greater interest throughout the dental profession.

Photograph of Dr. G.V. Black (left) and Drs. Isaac Burton and F. Y. Wilson, 1909, studying the "Colorado Brown Stain" (picture taken by McKay, printed in Douglas W.A.:"History of dentistry in Colorado, 1859-1959").


Initial hypotheses for the staining included poor nutrition, overconsumption of pork or milk, radium exposure, childhood diseases, or a calcium deficiency in the local drinking water.^[6] In 1931, researchers from the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) finally concluded that the cause of the Colorado stain was a high concentration of fluoride ions in the region's drinking water (ranging from 2 to 13.7 ppm) and areas with lower concentrations had no staining (1 ppm or less).^[10] Pikes Peak's rock formations contained the mineral cryolite, one of whose constituents is fluorine. As the rain and snow fell, the resulting runoff water dissolved fluoride which made its way into the water supply.

[shellebelle]

I thought this article was interesting.

https://www.pr-inside.com/fluoridati...ix-r836098.htm

Fluoride added to water supplies puts tea drinkers at health risk

Fluoridation & Tea Do Not Mix, Studies Continue to Show


2008-09-30 14:17:43 - Tea contains naturally high levels of bone-damaging fluoride

[d-cat]

This is the history of the discovery of the helpful effects of fluoride on teeth from Wiki:

anyone who uses Wikipedia should be aware of this:

https://www.wired.com/politics/onlin...8/wiki_tracker

if the subject is something the CIA (or others) might not want you to know, I would never rely on Wikipedia. I've seen many examples of censorship/omissions on Wiki. This is not a comment on any particular info posted here, just info on Wikipedia for people who use it.

[sharingwisdom]

I was a dental hygienist for 26 years and did a tremendous amount of research on fluoride back in the 70's and have continued to study this subject. I was certainly bucking the ADA boys years ago when I decided to talk to mother's groups, educating them to stop giving fluoride tablets and treatments to their children. I saw children vomit after fluoride treatments and refused to give them after realizing the toxic affect that was occurring. I was lucky enough to work for holistic dentists in Sonoma county that supported my research. I, myself, have dental fluorsis (mottled teeth) from growing up in a fluoridated area on the East Coast.

Fluoride development is very political. I actually have books from the 1940's talking about the dangers of fluoride by dentists who hadn't been taken over by the Alcoa Aluminum Industry. Fluoride was used in the Nazi concentration camps to keep the prisoners docile and compliant. How convenient to put it in our water.
https://www.befreetech.com/fluoridation.htm

Much of the original proof that fluoride is safe for humans in low doses was generated by A-bomb program scientists who had been secretly ordered to provide "evidence useful in litigation" against defence contractors for fluoride injury to citizens. The first lawsuits against the American A-bomb program were not over radiation, but over fluoride damage, the documents show. Human studies were required. Bomb program researchers played a leading role in the design and implementation of the most extensive US study of the health effects of fluoridating public drinking water, conducted in Newburgh, New York, from 1945 to 1955. Then, in a classified operation code-named "Program F", they secretly gathered and analysed blood and tissue samples from Newburgh citizens with the cooperation of New York State Health Department personnel. The original, secret version of a study published by Program F scientists in the August 1948 Journal of the American Dental Association1 shows that evidence of adverse health effects from fluoride was censored by the US Atomic Energy Commission (AEC)-considered the most powerful of Cold War agencies-for reasons of "national security". The bomb program's fluoride safety studies were conducted at the University of Rochester-site of one of the most notorious human radiation experiments of the Cold War, in which unsuspecting hospital patients were injected with toxic doses of radioactive plutonium. The fluoride studies were conducted with the same ethical mindset, in which "national security" was paramount.
https://www.rense.com/health/alertflo.htm

Calcium fluroide is NOT absorbed in the body the same as Stannous or Sodium Fluoride. The types of fluoride used to treat water systems, fluosilicic acid and sodium silicofluoride, are actually untreated hazardous waste from the phosphate fertilizer industry. Sodium Fluoride is rat poisoning. It comes with the skull and cross bone symbol right on the bottle. It is even listed in the Merck manual (standard manual used by physicians on disease and toxins) as a lethal poison.

We are exposed to fluoride via far more sources than just drinking water. Many of the processed foods and beverages sold in the U.S. contain high levels of fluoride because they are made using fluoridated water supplies. Further, the processing these foods undergo often has the effect of concentrating the fluoride. Food types with particularly high levels of fluoride include processed cereals, juices from concentrate, and soda. Mechanically deboned chicken is also a key source of concern. That’s because fluoridated water used on farms and to process animal feeds accumulates in animal bones, and chicken bones are especially brittle. As chicken is mechanically deboned, the deboning machine grinds significant portions of these fragile bones into a powder which then infiltrates the finished product. As a result, processed chicken products often have elevated levels of fluoride. (Mechanically deboned turkey and beef products aren’t nearly as much of an issue because their bones are much stronger.) Researchers studying the problem found that chicken-based infant foods have the highest fluoride levels found in this category of food, followed by chicken nugget/finger-type products, lunch meats, and canned meats.

Remarkably, fluorinated drinking water has not been shown to have any effect on tooth decay or the incidence of cavities. Tooth decay rates in Western Europe, where 98% of the population drinks unfluoridated water, have declined as much and even more in some locales as rates in the U.S. since fluoridation began. British Columbia, where about 10% of the population drinks fluoridated water compared to 40-70% in the other provinces, has the lowest rates of tooth decay in Canada. In the largest fluoridation study ever undertaken, the National Institute of Dental Research tracked 39,000 children between the ages of 5 and 17. The results? No statistically significant differences in the dental health between children serviced by unfluoridated and fluoridated water systems. Though fluoridation advocates commonly point out that public dental health in the U.S. has improved markedly since fluoridation began, many experts attribute this positive development not to treated water supplies but to increased public education and greatly improved dental hygiene practices being adopted by more and more Americans.
https://www.fluoridealert.org/

I really recommend this excellent video by BBC correspondent, Christorpher Bryson and author of The Fluoride Deception.

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4336262446047063653&q=The +Fluoride+Deception&total=34&start=0&num=10&so=0 &type=search&plindex=4

In awareness and healing, jd

That quote is pretty skewed. Fluoride is 'natural' in some areas because it comes from a rock in the ground. The fluoride in tea is 'natural', the plant takes it up and concentrates it in the leaves. No matter where it comes from it (the fluoride ion) has the same effects, good or bad, on the body. Too much of many elements/minerals/vitamins/chemicals are harmful. This is the history of the discovery of the helpful effects of fluoride on teeth from Wiki:

While the use of fluorides for prevention of dental caries (cavities) was discussed in the 19th century in Europe,^[5] community water fluoridation in the United States owes its origin in part to the research of Dr. Frederick McKay, who pressed the dental community for an investigation into what was then known as "Colorado brown stain."^[6] The condition, now known as dental fluorosis, when in its severe form is characterized by cracking and pitting of the teeth.^[7][8][9] Of 2,945 children examined in 1909 by Dr. McKay, 87.5% had some degree of stain or mottling. All the affected children were from the Pikes Peak region. Despite the negative impact on the physical appearance of their teeth, the children with stained, mottled and pitted teeth also had fewer cavities than other children. McKay brought the problem to the attention of Dr. G.V. Black, and Black's interest into the Colorado stain led to greater interest throughout the dental profession.

Photograph of Dr. G.V. Black (left) and Drs. Isaac Burton and F. Y. Wilson, 1909, studying the "Colorado Brown Stain" (picture taken by McKay, printed in Douglas W.A.:"History of dentistry in Colorado, 1859-1959").


Initial hypotheses for the staining included poor nutrition, overconsumption of pork or milk, radium exposure, childhood diseases, or a calcium deficiency in the local drinking water.^[6] In 1931, researchers from the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) finally concluded that the cause of the Colorado stain was a high concentration of fluoride ions in the region's drinking water (ranging from 2 to 13.7 ppm) and areas with lower concentrations had no staining (1 ppm or less).^[10] Pikes Peak's rock formations contained the mineral cryolite, one of whose constituents is fluorine. As the rain and snow fell, the resulting runoff water dissolved fluoride which made its way into the water supply.

[d-cat]

...In awareness and healing, jd

Thank you for that great info Sharing Wisdom!


Now, people may want to look into....


ASPARTAME

[phooph]

Thank you for that great info Sharing Wisdom!


Now, people may want to look into....


ASPARTAME

Probably the one of the largest websites on the subject put up by a distant cousin of mine: https://www.dorway.com/
Enter at your peril.

[d-cat]

USE OF ASPARTAME
BY PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES
https://www.wnho.net/use_of_aspartame.htm

Epilepsy Study Incriminates Aspartame in Medications
https://www.opednews.com/articles/Ep...80718-636.html

Aspartame promotes grand mal seizures, say health experts
https://www.naturalnews.com/008952.html

Kidney Patients Should be Notified of Potential Risk from Fluorides and Fluoridated Drinking Water
https://www.organicconsumers.org/art...icle_12710.cfm

Lawsuits threatened over forced fluoride
https://www.worldnetdaily.com/index....w&pageId=67360

'St John's Wort plant as effective as Prozac for treating depression', say scientists
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...cientists.html

[d-cat]

Awareness to the dangerous side-effects and deadly consequences of vaccines is growing exponentially. This research archive is a compilation of information concerning mercury in vaccines, their link to autism, other vaccine controversies, and the nationwide hoax that vaccines are mandatory.

https://www.prisonplanet.com/archive...ines/index.htm

[Sylph]

Awareness to the dangerous side-effects and deadly consequences of vaccines is growing exponentially. This research archive is a compilation of information concerning mercury in vaccines, their link to autism, other vaccine controversies, and the nationwide hoax that vaccines are mandatory.

https://www.prisonplanet.com/archive...htm[/quote]

Oh boy! I'm not sure I even want to get involved with this hot topic. Here is a very good argument by a nerdy science guy. Bad production values, good solid information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEQB8decrxE

[Sylph]

Re pertussis:

https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html
Anti-Vaccination Fever

The Shot Hurt Around the World

Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, and alternative medical practitioners fanned the fires created by questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics of a disease (pertussis) that had almost been forgotten.

[MsTerry]

To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners in one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible.

Re pertussis:
Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, and alternative medical practitioners fanned the fires created by questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics of a disease (pertussis) that had almost been forgotten.

[Sylph]

To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners in one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible.

I respectfully suggest you may not have read the article. Fanning the flames of vaccine fears is irresponsible, as it results in dead children, as has been shown over and over in countries where parents stop having their kids vaccinated:

….That ink was barely dry when the first wave struck. Australia's 1994 epidemic logged more than 5,000 cases(of pertussis). The second wave reached Australian shores three years later. This time, nearly 10,699 cases and nine infant deaths were reported. In the 2000-2001 Australian epidemic (figure 4), by November 6, 2001, 7,185 cases and two infant deaths had been recorded (Gangarosa et al. 1998, Kingsley 2001). In this latest outbreak, the Hunter Public Health Unit in Hunter Valley, New South Wales, reported, "About 30 percent of cases in Hunter Valley have been among 10 to 19 year olds." Australian children past eight years old aren't vaccinated against pertussis "because of concerns about the possible side effects of the vaccine beyond this age" (ABC Science Online 2000). Distorted numbers, confusion of correlation with causation, and statistical innumeracy certainly played roles in this sad story. Sensationalist media campaigns fanned the glowing embers. But in each of the countries that experienced the raging fires of epidemics there were other forces at work. Most prominent in passive anti-vaccination movements were religious groups whose opposition was based on religious or moral grounds. Prominent in both passive and active anti-vaccination movements are followers and practitioners of homeopathy, chiropractic, and natural and alternative medicine (Gangarosa et al. 1998).
https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html

[MsTerry]

I respectfully suggest that you remove that inflammatory, self-righteous quote and leave just the link to the article!

I respectfully suggest you may not have read the article.l

[MsTerry]

Sylph,
in 1997, 9 deaths out of 10,699 cases were allegedly linked to pertussis
in 2001, 2 deaths out of 7,185 cases were allegedly linked to pertussis
Do you know how statistically insignificant this is? 0.01%???
How many children died in the same period due to vaccines?
How many died from complications due to vaccines?
How many died from infections due to improper administration of vaccines?
Now where does this pertusis come from?
Is it possible that travel and immigration is spreading it rather than non-vaccination?

….That ink was barely dry when the first wave struck. Australia's 1994 epidemic logged more than 5,000 cases(of pertussis). The second wave reached Australian shores three years later. This time, nearly 10,699 cases and nine infant deaths were reported. In the 2000-2001 Australian epidemic (figure 4), by November 6, 2001, 7,185 cases and two infant deaths had been recorded (Gangarosa et al. 1998, Kingsley 2001). In this latest outbreak, the Hunter Public Health Unit in Hunter Valley, New South Wales, reported, "About 30 percent of cases in Hunter Valley have been among 10 to 19 year olds." Australian children past eight years old aren't vaccinated against pertussis "because of concerns about the possible side effects of the vaccine beyond this age" (ABC Science Online 2000). Distorted numbers, confusion of correlation with causation, and statistical innumeracy certainly played roles in this sad story. Sensationalist media campaigns fanned the glowing embers. But in each of the countries that experienced the raging fires of epidemics there were other forces at work. Most prominent in passive anti-vaccination movements were religious groups whose opposition was based on religious or moral grounds. Prominent in both passive and active anti-vaccination movements are followers and practitioners of homeopathy, chiropractic, and natural and alternative medicine (Gangarosa et al. 1998).
https://www.csicop.org/si/2004-01/anti-vaccination.html

[Sylph]

Ms Terry quipped: "To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitionersin one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible."

I’m sorry you interpreted ‘respectfully’ as self-righteous and demeaning to you. I intended it to be polite and non-confrontational. I suggested you may not have read the article because the answer to your accusation above was in the article. You seem to delight in misinterpreting my motives. My deepest apologies, nonetheless.

A ‘statistically tiny’ number of deaths (from pertussis in Australia), perhaps, but how devastating for the parent who understands too late that the death was preventable with a vaccine.

Where does it come from? It seems to be in our human environment, just waiting for an unvaccinated population to invade. Measles is often brought by immigrants or travelers, but pertussis is lurking amongst us natives.

And here is a description of what the thousands of survivors of the disease endured:

Neither the common nor the Latin name give any indication that the hacking cough and haunting whoop are often followed by vomiting. Nor does either name indicate that this distressing paroxysmal phase can last up to four weeks, and that this phase, in which the victim most clearly needs constant assistance, cruelly is also the phase in which this deadly disease is the most highly contagious. Since highly and deadly are relative terms, I should tell you that pertussis infections occur in 70 to 100 percent of all unimmunized household contacts that have been exposed to an infected person (CDNANZ 1997). In 1931, before immunization, pertussis was responsible for 1.3 percent of all deaths in England and Wales (Research Defence Society 1999).
You have probably imagined an adult victim while reading thus far. In fact, before an effective vaccine became available, pertussis had been a worldwide leading cause of infant deaths. Before the 1940s, it was a major cause of infant and child morbidity and mortality in the U.S. (CDC 2002). From 1890 to 1940, in New South Wales, whooping cough killed more children under five than diphtheria. It was second only to gastroenteritis as a cause of infant deaths (Hamilton 1979).
In Sydney, Australia's, Royal Alexandria Hospital for Children alone, eighty-five died in 1940: "A whole 30-bed ward was filled for months with these poor little ones. Most of those admitted were young. The older ones were not in great danger and stayed at home, going on for seemingly endless weeks with their distressing spasms of breath-robbing cough ending in a vomit or choking whoop" (Hamilton 1979).
The force of pertussis coughing is so severe that many patients develop facial suffusions (discolorations), and small hemorrhages in the skin or conjunctivae. The coughing alone can also lead to hernias, rectal prolapse (protrusion of the rectal mucous membrane or sphincter muscle through the anus), or even hypoxic encephalopathy (degenerative disease of the brain). An adult can literally cough his way into a proctologist's or neurologist's office. Vomit, food particles, or mucous aspired while whooping can result in secondary pneumonia infection. Some children even become malnourished because they literally can't stop coughing long enough to eat. And some, usually infants, die (Malleson et al. 1977; CDNANZ 1997).

[MsTerry]

Sylph,
I'm sorry to see you getting so snide with me while misinterpreting my motives and at the same time telling me that I am misinterpreting your motives. LOL
So, Let me spell it out for you.

I respectfully suggest that you remove that inflammatory, self-righteous quote and leave just the link to the article!

As you can see, (and I do hope you will read the quote even though it is out of context) self-righteous refers to the quote you posted. It is a dishonest and misleading statement since it links (a)Sensationalist media, (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners.
That is inflammatory
Since you choose to leave the quote, one can only assume that this what you stand for.
Since this "Ms Terry quipped" is part of your response, I must surmise that your apologies are neither deep nor sincere.
Nevertheless, I wish you all the best, with or without vaccines.

Ms Terry quipped: "To link Sensationalist media, religious fanatics, questionable research to spawn worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners in one sentence,
now that is sensationalist and questionably fanatic but mostly irresponsible."

I’m sorry you interpreted ‘respectfully’ as self-righteous and demeaning to you. I intended it to be polite and non-confrontational. I suggested you may not have read the article because the answer to your accusation above was in the article. You seem to delight in misinterpreting my motives. My deepest apologies, nonetheless.

[MsTerry]

ANY child dying is a heart-breaker!
Whether it comes from vaccines, poor hygiene at the hospital, wrong prescriptions or wrong diagnosis.
When the numbers are soo low that they don't show statistically, there is no crisis or epidemic.
Still, ANY child dying is a heart-breaker!

A ‘statistically tiny’ number of deaths (from pertussis in Australia), perhaps, but how devastating for the parent who understands too late that the death was preventable with a vaccine.

Where does it come from? It seems to be in our human environment, just waiting for an unvaccinated population to invade. Measles is often brought by immigrants or travelers, but pertussis is lurking amongst us natives.

And here is a description of what the thousands of survivors of the disease endured:

[Sylph]

Sylph,
I'm sorry to see you getting so snide with me while misinterpreting my motives and at the same time telling me that I am misinterpreting your motives. LOL
So, Let me spell it out for you.


As you can see, (and I do hope you will read the quote even though it is out of context) self-righteous refers to the quote you posted. It is a dishonest and misleading statement since it links (a)Sensationalist media, (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics with alternative medical practitioners.
That is inflammatory
Since you choose to leave the quote, one can only assume that this what you stand for.
Since this "Ms Terry quipped" is part of your response, I must surmise that your apologies are neither deep nor sincere.
Nevertheless, I wish you all the best, with or without vaccines.

In the article I referenced about Australia/Pertussis, some alternative practitioners, in concert with sensationalist media were actively discouraging immunization to the detriment of public health in that area. My quote was directly from the article and was accurate re. the situation. Did I criticize all alternative practitioners?
As for what I stand for: I stand for saving lives. Vaccines cause harm on occasion, without a doubt, and that is tragic. However, many, many more children have been saved by vaccines than harmed. Check out the risk/benefit ratio. Some alternative practitioners, sincere as they may be, are harming children by discouraging vaccines.
"Quip": sarcastic or witty comment. Your specialty, no? You are quite sensitive, if I may say so (without upsetting you)!
Even though you call me "snide" without knowing me or my motives, I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.

[Braggi]

In the article I referenced about Australia/Pertussis, some alternative practitioners, in concert with sensationalist media were actively discouraging immunization to the detriment of public health in that area. ... I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.

You are a Love Sylph. Thanks for posting.

-Jeff

[MsTerry]

This is disingenuous, Sylph
some alternative practitioners???
you never used the word SOME in your quote, besides that you are still linking them with (b)religious fanatics, (c)questionable research (d)worldwide epidemics
there are no worldwide epidemics.
Since you stand for saving lives, why don'tyou read the following

The Vaccine-Autism Court Document Every American Should Read[/B]

Posted February 26, 2008 | 02:38 PM (EST)

---

Read More: Autism, Autism Spectrum Disorder, Autism Thimerosal, Autism Vaccines, Concession, Hhs, Kennedy Krieger, Mitochondria, Oxydative Phosphorylation, Thimerosal, Vaccine, Vaccine Court, Breaking Living News

stumble digg reddit del.ico.us news trust mixx.com


Below is a verbatim copy of the US Government concession filed last November in a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims, with the names of the family redacted. It is the subject of my post yesterday.
Every American should read this document, and interpret for themselves what they think their government is trying to say about the relationship, if any, between immunizations and a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.

• Email
• Print

Buzz up!on Yahoo!

If you feel this document suggests that some kind of link may be possible, you might consider forwarding it to your elected representatives for further investigation.
But, of course, if you feel that this document in no way implicates vaccines, then let's just keep going about our business as usual and not pay any attention to all those sick kids behind the curtain.

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
OFFICE OF SPECIAL MASTERS
CHILD, a minor,
by her Parents and Natural Guardians,
Petitioners,
v.
SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES,
Respondent.
RESPONDENT'S RULE 4(c) REPORT
In accordance with RCFC, Appendix B, Vaccine Rule 4(c), the Secretary of Health and Human Services submits the following response to the petition for compensation filed in this case.
FACTS
CHILD ("CHILD") was born on December --, 1998, and weighed eight pounds, ten ounces. Petitioners' Exhibit ("Pet. Ex.") 54 at 13. The pregnancy was complicated by gestational diabetes. Id. at 13. CHILD received her first Hepatitis B immunization on December 27, 1998. Pet. Ex. 31 at 2.
From January 26, 1999 through June 28, 1999, CHILD visited the Pediatric Center, in Catonsville, Maryland, for well-child examinations and minor complaints, including fever and eczema. Pet. Ex. 31 at 5-10, 19. During this time period, she received the following pediatric vaccinations, without incident:

Vaccine Dates Administered
Hep B 12/27/98; 1/26/99
IPV 3/12/99; 4/27/99
Hib 3/12/99; 4/27/99; 6/28/99
DTaP 3/12/99; 4/27/99; 6/28/99
Id. at 2.
At seven months of age, CHILD was diagnosed with bilateral otitis media. Pet. Ex. 31 at 20. In the subsequent months between July 1999 and January 2000, she had frequent bouts of otitis media, which doctors treated with multiple antibiotics. Pet. Ex. 2 at 4. On December 3,1999, CHILD was seen by Karl Diehn, M.D., at Ear, Nose, and Throat Associates of the Greater Baltimore Medical Center ("ENT Associates"). Pet. Ex. 31 at 44. Dr. Diehn recommend that CHILD receive PE tubes for her "recurrent otitis media and serious otitis." Id. CHILD received PE tubes in January 2000. Pet. Ex. 24 at 7. Due to CHILD's otitis media, her mother did not allow CHILD to receive the standard 12 and 15 month childhood immunizations. Pet. Ex. 2 at 4.
According to the medical records, CHILD consistently met her developmental milestones during the first eighteen months of her life. The record of an October 5, 1999 visit to the Pediatric Center notes that CHILD was mimicking sounds, crawling, and sitting. Pet. Ex. 31 at 9. The record of her 12-month pediatric examination notes that she was using the words "Mom" and "Dad," pulling herself up, and cruising. Id. at 10.
At a July 19, 2000 pediatric visit, the pediatrician observed that CHILD "spoke well" and was "alert and active." Pet. Ex. 31 at 11. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had regular bowel movements and slept through the night. Id. At the July 19, 2000 examination, CHILD received five vaccinations - DTaP, Hib, MMR, Varivax, and IPV. Id. at 2, 11.
According to her mother's affidavit, CHILD developed a fever of 102.3 degrees two days after her immunizations and was lethargic, irritable, and cried for long periods of time. Pet. Ex. 2 at 6. She exhibited intermittent, high-pitched screaming and a decreased response to stimuli. Id. MOM spoke with the pediatrician, who told her that CHILD was having a normal reaction to her immunizations. Id. According to CHILD's mother, this behavior continued over the next ten days, and CHILD also began to arch her back when she cried. Id.
On July 31, 2000, CHILD presented to the Pediatric Center with a 101-102 degree temperature, a diminished appetite, and small red dots on her chest. Pet. Ex. 31 at 28. The nurse practitioner recorded that CHILD was extremely irritable and inconsolable. Id. She was diagnosed with a post-varicella vaccination rash. Id. at 29.
Two months later, on September 26, 2000, CHILD returned to the Pediatric Center with a temperature of 102 degrees, diarrhea, nasal discharge, a reduced appetite, and pulling at her left ear. Id. at 29. Two days later, on September 28, 2000, CHILD was again seen at the Pediatric Center because her diarrhea continued, she was congested, and her mother reported that CHILD was crying during urination. Id. at 32. On November 1, 2000, CHILD received bilateral PE tubes. Id. at 38. On November 13, 2000, a physician at ENT Associates noted that CHILD was "obviously hearing better" and her audiogram was normal. Id. at 38. On November 27, 2000, CHILD was seen at the Pediatric Center with complaints of diarrhea, vomiting, diminished energy, fever, and a rash on her cheek. Id. at 33. At a follow-up visit, on December 14, 2000, the doctor noted that CHILD had a possible speech delay. Id.
CHILD was evaluated at the Howard County Infants and Toddlers Program, on November 17, 2000, and November 28, 2000, due to concerns about her language development. Pet. Ex. 19 at 2, 7. The assessment team observed deficits in CHILD's communication and social development. Id. at 6. CHILD's mother reported that CHILD had become less responsive to verbal direction in the previous four months and had lost some language skills. Id. At 2.
On December 21, 2000, CHILD returned to ENT Associates because of an obstruction in her right ear and fussiness. Pet. Ex. 31 at 39. Dr. Grace Matesic identified a middle ear effusion and recorded that CHILD was having some balance issues and not progressing with her speech. Id. On December 27, 2000, CHILD visited ENT Associates, where Dr. Grace Matesic observed that CHILD's left PE tube was obstructed with crust. Pet. Ex. 14 at 6. The tube was replaced on January 17, 2001. Id.
Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a pediatric neurologist, evaluated CHILD at the Kennedy Krieger Children's Hospital Neurology Clinic ("Krieger Institute"), on February 8, 2001. Pet. Ex. 25 at 1. Dr. Zimmerman reported that after CHILD's immunizations of July 19, 2000, an "encephalopathy progressed to persistent loss of previously acquired language, eye contact, and relatedness." Id. He noted a disruption in CHILD's sleep patterns, persistent screaming and arching, the development of pica to foreign objects, and loose stools. Id. Dr. Zimmerman observed that CHILD watched the fluorescent lights repeatedly during the examination and
would not make eye contact. Id. He diagnosed CHILD with "regressive encephalopathy with features consistent with an autistic spectrum disorder, following normal development." Id. At 2. Dr. Zimmerman ordered genetic testing, a magnetic resonance imaging test ("MRI"), and an electroencephalogram ("EEG"). Id.
Dr. Zimmerman referred CHILD to the Krieger Institute's Occupational Therapy Clinic and the Center for Autism and Related Disorders ("CARDS"). Pet. Ex. 25 at 40. She was evaluated at the Occupational Therapy Clinic by Stacey Merenstein, OTR/L, on February 23, 2001. Id. The evaluation report summarized that CHILD had deficits in "many areas of sensory processing which decrease[d] her ability to interpret sensory input and influence[d] her motor performance as a result." Id. at 45. CHILD was evaluated by Alice Kau and Kelley Duff, on May 16, 2001, at CARDS. Pet. Ex. 25 at 17. The clinicians concluded that CHILD was developmentally delayed and demonstrated features of autistic disorder. Id. at 22.
CHILD returned to Dr. Zimmerman, on May 17, 2001, for a follow-up consultation. Pet. Ex. 25 at 4. An overnight EEG, performed on April 6, 2001, showed no seizure discharges. Id. at 16. An MRI, performed on March 14, 2001, was normal. Pet. Ex. 24 at 16. A G-band test revealed a normal karyotype. Pet. Ex. 25 at 16. Laboratory studies, however, strongly indicated an underlying mitochondrial disorder. Id. at 4.
Dr. Zimmerman referred CHILD for a neurogenetics consultation to evaluate her abnormal metabolic test results. Pet. Ex. 25 at 8. CHILD met with Dr. Richard Kelley, a specialist in neurogenetics, on May 22, 2001, at the Krieger Institute. Id. In his assessment, Dr. Kelley affirmed that CHILD's history and lab results were consistent with "an etiologically unexplained metabolic disorder that appear[ed] to be a common cause of developmental regression." Id. at 7. He continued to note that children with biochemical profiles similar to CHILD's develop normally until sometime between the first and second year of life when their metabolic pattern becomes apparent, at which time they developmentally regress. Id. Dr. Kelley described this condition as "mitochondrial PPD." Id.
On October 4, 2001, Dr. John Schoffner, at Horizon Molecular Medicine in Norcross, Georgia, examined CHILD to assess whether her clinical manifestations were related to a defect in cellular energetics. Pet. Ex. 16 at 26. After reviewing her history, Dr. Schoffner agreed that the previous metabolic testing was "suggestive of a defect in cellular energetics." Id. Dr. Schoffner recommended a muscle biopsy, genetic testing, metabolic testing, and cell culture based testing. Id. at 36. A CSF organic acids test, on January 8, 2002, displayed an increased lactate to pyruvate ratio of 28,1 which can be seen in disorders of mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation. Id. at 22. A muscle biopsy test for oxidative phosphorylation disease revealed abnormal results for Type One and Three. Id. at 3. The most prominent findings were scattered atrophic myofibers that were mostly type one oxidative phosphorylation dependent myofibers, mild increase in lipid in selected myofibers, and occasional myofiber with reduced cytochrome c oxidase activity. Id. at 7. After reviewing these laboratory results, Dr. Schoffner diagnosed CHILD with oxidative phosphorylation disease. Id. at 3. In February 2004, a mitochondrial DNA ("mtDNA") point mutation analysis revealed a single nucleotide change in the 16S ribosomal RNA gene (T2387C). Id. at 11.
CHILD returned to the Krieger Institute, on July 7, 2004, for a follow-up evaluation with Dr. Zimmerman. Pet. Ex. 57 at 9. He reported CHILD "had done very well" with treatment for a mitochondrial dysfunction. Dr. Zimmerman concluded that CHILD would continue to require services in speech, occupational, physical, and behavioral therapy. Id.
On April 14, 2006, CHILD was brought by ambulance to Athens Regional Hospital and developed a tonic seizure en route. Pet. Ex. 10 at 38. An EEG showed diffuse slowing. Id. At 40. She was diagnosed with having experienced a prolonged complex partial seizure and transferred to Scottish Rite Hospital. Id. at 39, 44. She experienced no more seizures while at Scottish Rite Hospital and was discharged on the medications Trileptal and Diastal. Id. at 44. A follow-up MRI of the brain, on June 16, 2006, was normal with evidence of a left mastoiditis manifested by distortion of the air cells. Id. at 36. An EEG, performed on August 15, 2006,
showed "rhythmic epileptiform discharges in the right temporal region and then focal slowing during a witnessed clinical seizure." Id. At 37. CHILD continues to suffer from a seizure disorder.
ANALYSIS
Medical personnel at the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation, Department of Health and Human Services (DVIC) have reviewed the facts of this case, as presented by the petition, medical records, and affidavits. After a thorough review, DVIC has concluded that compensation is appropriate in this case.

In sum, DVIC has concluded that the facts of this case meet the statutory criteria for demonstrating that the vaccinations CHILD received on July 19, 2000, significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder, which predisposed her to deficits in cellular energy metabolism, and manifested as a regressive encephalopathy with features of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, respondent recommends that compensation be awarded to petitioners in accordance with 42 U.S.C. § 300aa-11(c)(1)(C)(ii).

DVIC has concluded that CHILD's complex partial seizure disorder, with an onset of almost six years after her July 19, 2000 vaccinations, is not related to a vaccine-injury.
Respectfully submitted,
PETER D. KEISLER
Assistant Attorney General

TIMOTHY P. GARREN
Director
Torts Branch, Civil Division

MARK W. ROGERS
Deputy Director
Torts Branch, Civil Division

VINCENT J. MATANOSKI
Assistant Director
Torts Branch, Civil Division

s/ Linda S. Renzi by s/ Lynn E. Ricciardella
LINDA S. RENZI
Senior Trial Counsel
Torts Branch, Civil Division
U.S. Department of Justice
P.O. Box 146
Benjamin Franklin Station


DATE: November 9, 2007

PS: On Friday, February 22, HHS conceded that this child's complex partial seizure disorder was also caused by her vaccines. Now we the taxpayers will award this family compensation to finance her seizure medication. Surely ALL decent people can agree that is a good thing. By the way, it''s worth noting that her seizures did not begin until six years after the date of vaccination, yet the government acknowledges they were, indeed, linked to the immunizations of July, 2000, - DK

ylph;72111]In the article I referenced about Australia/Pertussis, some alternative practitioners, in concert with sensationalist media were actively discouraging immunization to the detriment of public health in that area. My quote was directly from the article and was accurate re. the situation. Did I criticize all alternative practitioners?
As for what I stand for: I stand for saving lives. Vaccines cause harm on occasion, without a doubt, and that is tragic. However, many, many more children have been saved by vaccines than harmed. Check out the risk/benefit ratio. Some alternative practitioners, sincere as they may be, are harming children by discouraging vaccines.
"Quip": sarcastic or witty comment. Your specialty, no? You are quite sensitive, if I may say so (without upsetting you)!
Even though you call me "snide" without knowing me or my motives, I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.

[MsTerry]

When you misquote me and try to correct me as if I said something else(because you didn't take the time to read what I wrote) ,yes your motives become suspect.
Your motives are pretty clear, you want to promote your vision of what is healthy and brand any thing else as sensational, fanatic, questionable, causing worldwide epidemics instigated by alternative healers.
Did i leave anything out?

Even though you call me "snide" without knowing me or my motives, I thank you for your good wishes! Peace.

[MsTerry]

Oh Yes, I come quite e-quipped
In this case though my use of the word 'irresponsible', added to your quote was neither sarcastic nor witty, just a fact.
You inserted the word 'quipped' as a way to diminish what I was saying, and Yes, I can sense those "friendly" stabs a mile away.

"Quip": sarcastic or witty comment. Your specialty, no? You are quite sensitive, if I may say so (without upsetting you)!