What so many people don't understand about the US working class

[wisewomn]

This article from The Guardian is spot-on and should be read widely, IMO.

What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
Joan C. Williams
November 10, 2016

My father-in-law grew up eating blood soup. He hated it, whether because of the taste or the humiliation, I never knew. His alcoholic father regularly drank up the family wage, and the family was often short on food money. They were evicted from apartment after apartment.

He dropped out of school in eighth grade to help support the family. Eventually he got a good, steady job he truly hated, as an inspector in a factory that made those machines that measure humidity levels in museums. He tried to open several businesses on the side but none worked, so he kept that job for 38 years. He rose from poverty to a middle-class life: the car, the house, two kids in Catholic school, the wife who worked only part-time. He worked incessantly. He had two jobs in addition to his full-time position, one doing yard work for a local magnate and another hauling trash to the dump.

Throughout the 1950s and 1960s, he read The Wall Street Journal and voted Republican. He was a man before his time: a blue-collar white man who thought the union was a bunch of jokers who took your money and never gave you anything in return. Starting in 1970, many blue-collar whites followed his example. This week, their candidate won the presidency.

For months, the only thing that’s surprised me about Donald Trump is my friends’ astonishment at his success. What’s driving it is the class culture gap.

One little-known element of that gap is that the white working class (WWC) resents professionals but admires the rich. Class migrants (white-collar professionals born to blue-collar families) report that “professional people were generally suspect” and that managers are college kids “who don’t know shit about how to do anything but are full of ideas about how I have to do my job,” said Alfred Lubrano in Limbo. Barbara Ehrenreich recalled in 1990 that her blue-collar dad “could not say the word doctor without the virtual prefix quack. Lawyers were shysters…and professors were without exception phonies.” Annette Lareau found tremendous resentment against teachers, who were perceived as condescending and unhelpful.

Michèle Lamont, in The Dignity of Working Men, also found resentment of professionals — but not of the rich. “[I] can’t knock anyone for succeeding,” a laborer told her. “There’s a lot of people out there who are wealthy and I’m sure they worked darned hard for every cent they have,” chimed in a receiving clerk. Why the difference? For one thing, most blue-collar workers have little direct contact with the rich outside of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. But professionals order them around every day. The dream is not to become upper-middle-class, with its different food, family, and friendship patterns; the dream is to live in your own class milieu, where you feel comfortable — just with more money. “The main thing is to be independent and give your own orders and not have to take them from anybody else,” a machine operator told Lamont. Owning one’s own business — that’s the goal. That’s another part of Trump’s appeal.

Hillary Clinton, by contrast, epitomizes the dorky arrogance and smugness of the professional elite. The dorkiness: the pantsuits. The arrogance: the email server. The smugness: the basket of deplorables. Worse, her mere presence rubs it in that even women from her class can treat working-class men with disrespect. Look at how she condescends to Trump as unfit to hold the office of the presidency and dismisses his supporters as racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic.

Trump’s blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. “Directness is a working-class norm,” notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, “If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don’t like people who play these two-faced games.” Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being “a total wuss and a wimp,” an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton’s clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she’s a two-faced phony.

Continues here

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

This article from The Guardian is spot-on and should be read widely, IMO.

What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class
Joan C. Williams
November 10, 2016

Continues here

I have to take issue with the underlying narrative of this piece (never mind it's reliance on the trope of WHITE working class).

It ignores the reality, that Trump also ignored while exploiting, of the "working class". The days when you can have no education, and make a middle class income- are long gone and not returning.

I grew up in one of the blue collar swing states that Trump swung red. And yes- I've watche the decay and devestation over the past couple of decades- that neither party has really dealt with. But the issue runs far beyond politics. Or capitalism. Not to be harsh- but it is Darwin- evolve...or die.

In that area there used to be several major manufacturers. As well as a massive dairy industry. I knew many of the managers of the manufacturers. As things increasingly shifted to machines, it not only reduced the number of workers needed- but changed the type of worker needed. Increasingly the demand was for people with at least a basic understanding of science and engineering. And manufacturers often have problems finding these semi-skilled workers.

I'm reminded of the talk between Obama and Steve Jobs, with Jobs telling him that manufacturing as we once knew is dead, and if we want to bring it back in some form, we need people with skills. Not a 4 year degree, but better knowledge then our schools and community colleges provided. The irony of all this of course is that Obama listened...pushed STEM (science, engineering, technology, math) education - often against the wishes of conservatives (who, let's face it, see such teachings as a threat to religion). Sadly it will likely be Trump who gets credit for new jobs- new jobs that would never have happened if Obama hadn't pushed for such education changes.

The world has changed. Manufacturing and Agricultural are both now heavily mechanized- the numbers employed in these fields has shrunk drastically in my lifetime. Mining is increasingly relying on autonomous vehichles. The trucking industry is moving to autonomous vehichles as I write this. And on top of this- from products to infrastructure advances have built systems that are increasingly resilient, that do not need the constant maientance and tweaking that such things did.

Think of your car. When I was a kid- most "gas stations" were "service stations". Mechanics on hand to fix your vehicle. Now cars are so complicated when something goes wrong it often has to go to a dealer or a high end shop where they plug it into a computer- which then tells them which processes to follow.

We are trying to have the wrong (and a dishonest) conversation. Our country. Our societies. The world has changed, and for better or worse there is no going back.

I got out of the area I grew up as fast as I could…I saw the writing on the wall. Few others did (and mostly via the military). Now it is a depressing place of opoid addiction, meth, and ever increasing crime and violence.

The problem I see is not one of government. Of business. But of Americans getting soft and lazy. Dreaming of no more then muddling through a sub-par high school and landing a job that will provide a decent life for the rest of their years. A failure to seek self improvement. A failure to think or experience beyond their narrow local reality… So now of course we seek the evil boogeyman: Obama. Trade agreements. Globalization. Islam. Illegal Immigrants, and legal ones too. It’s all far easier then confronting the mirror…

[podfish]

The problem I see is not one of government. Of business. But of Americans getting soft and lazy. Dreaming of no more then muddling through a sub-par high school and landing a job that will provide a decent life for the rest of their years. A failure to seek self improvement. A failure to think or experience beyond their narrow local reality… So now of course we seek the evil boogeyman: Obama. Trade agreements. Globalization. Islam. Illegal Immigrants, and legal ones too. It’s all far easier then confronting the mirror…

I agree with your description except for the 'soft and lazy' bit. Didn't Socrates say that? maybe I'm thinking of something else, but it's quite close really. "Toughening up" may be great advice, but I find it hard to believe that it was much different before. Kind of hard to know, though - I don't really trust the memories of people enough older than I am when they tell me how much tougher they had it...

Sure they didn't have TVs, refridgerators, etc...

Also, I don't like the implication that people incapable of thriving in a world that requires skills that are so difficult to learn deserve what they get. (Not that you've made that statement, but a lot of people who make the same observations that you do - do take it that extra step).

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

I agree with your description except for the 'soft and lazy' bit. Didn't Socrates say that? ...

Some fair points. And maybe some failures in expressing myself.

re: "soft and lazy" . Kind of complicated ironically. A lot of people from these areas have a very strong work ethic. But for whatever various reasons, tend to not be willing to strike out to new areas to work. Having worked in both Ag and Construction for many, many years on the west coast and hawaii- I know many who love to hire those from the midwest and north east- and are loathe to hire californians or west coasters in general.

America was made by immigrants- people fleeing bad situations, and willing to do whatever it took to make a better life. But then something happened... people got comfortable, and expected things to continue as they were. You could have a decent life w/o really having to try...

I suppose this is one of the things that pisses me off so much with the "illegal immigrant" debate. If I was born in their shoes- you bet I would hop the wall or swim the river...do whatever I had to to provie a better life for myself and my family . If you say otherwise you're a hypocrite...or the "soft and lazy" problem...

As to the "the implication that people incapable of thriving in a world that requires skills that are so difficult to learn deserve what they get" ...not what I was trying to express. I was saying skills that take maybe a couple years of community college (if they actually are smart enough to offer such training). Or ...an apprenticeship. Or just saying "train me".... I'll work for peanuts for a few months while you make me into the employee you need. Go to nightschool. Etc, etc.

I don't see the drive in people I did when I was a kid....

I don't know. I've traveled this country extensively. From deep red bible belt to Folsom street fair. There are a LOT of amazing people in this nation. But one thing that has struck me time and again- how many people never get out of their hometown. Or where they land afterward. A lot of Aerica, including our little slice of it- tend to live in a bubble...where they have little understanding of what life is like elsewhere...or see the changes coming in their lifetime.

[podfish]

... A lot of people from these areas have a very strong work ethic. But for whatever various reasons, tend to not be willing to strike out to new areas to work. Having worked in both Ag and Construction for many, many years on the west coast and hawaii- I know many who love to hire those from the midwest and north east- and are loathe to hire californians or west coasters in general. ....
you bet I would hop the wall or swim the river...do whatever I had to to prove a better life for myself and my family . If you say otherwise you're a hypocrite...or the "soft and lazy" problem...

As your valuation of a strong work ethic, I share that. I can't imagine responding passively, I assume I'd also do whatever it took - and that I'd find something to do. But when I see that discrepancy between my imagination of how I'd respond and the way many others who are actually in those circumstances are responding, I have to consider that I don't have the imagination to really understand. I won't take the step of assuming if 'those people' were more like me, they'd be succeeding.

As to the "the implication that people incapable of thriving in a world that requires skills that are so difficult to learn deserve what they get" ...not what I was trying to express.

no, you made that clear. But a lot of people feel the same way as you do, but aren't loathe to also pass judgement.

I was saying skills that take maybe a couple years of community college (if they actually are smart enough to offer such training). Or ...an apprenticeship. Or just saying "train me".... I'll work for peanuts for a few months while you make me into the employee you need. Go to nightschool. Etc, etc.

That's again my own self-image. I'm sure that's how I'd respond (and I have, in the past). But I also notice that there are subjects that I just can't focus on. And as well educated as I am, there are topics that I've repeatedly studied but I know I don't have the intuitive feel for them to ever get good. I wouldn't be a good physicist, for example, though I'm pretty interested in it. I'll extend that to the guys who bolted doors on to cars at the assembly line - I don't think many of them are going to be good programmers. I've seen very motivated people try to learn engineering and fail because they don't see the world in the 'right' way. I've also seen people who just can't seem to learn to use a screwdriver. They have the mechanical insight of a squirrel. I don't believe people are infinitely malleable - some just aren't going to be able to take up skills that they can sell. Also, rebuilding your life like you'd have to, around some new desirable skill you don't yet have, takes energy, just like climbing a mountain takes energy. As you get less young (to put it politely) that energy just might not be there.

I don't see the drive in people I did when I was a kid....

I don't know. I've travelled this country extensiveley. From deep red bible belt to folsom street fair. There are a LOT of amazing people in this nation. But one thing that has struck me time and again- how many people never get out of their hometown. Or where they land afterward. A lot of Aerica, including our little slice of it- tend to live in a bubble...where they have little understanding of what life is like elsewhere...or see the changes coming in their lifetime.

my experience is the same - but I'd extend it to the well-educated, privileged classes too. They also can't understand the lives of those so different from themselves. And your comment about not seeing the drive -- that's the inner Socrates speaking.

[Mar1]

I totally agree with Larry's rebuttal of the facts. The reason Trump won was he fed on the anger and fear of those who have not taken actions or were unable to take actions that would fit them into the new technology-driven reality of our society. And the greed and short sightedness of private industry, largely corporations and legislators who are indebted to them, is leading to the breakdown of progress that has been made over the years to create a more just society.

I have to take issue with the underlying narrative of this piece (never mind it's reliance on the trope of WHITE working class).

It ignores the reality, that Trump also ignored while exploiting, of the "working class". The days when you can have no education, and make a middle class income- are long gone and not returning.…

[wisewomn]

One other thing that is not being mentioned here is the inherent inequality of the Capitalistic system, which seems always to entail "winners" and "losers" in the competition for profit/capital.

[podfish]

One other thing that is not being mentioned here is the inherent inequality of the Capitalistic system, which seems always to entail "winners" and "losers" in the competition for profit/capital.

yep, this isn't a system designed to ensure that everyone benefits. It's claimed that it syncs well with psychology, that we all do benefit from the efforts of some who are motivated by greed, or something similar but not so greedy-sounding. (rising tide lifts all boats, whatever...) I don't think that's altogether true; people would pay to run Apple or Facebook if given the chance, just because they enjoy the gig. The fact that you can funnel huge amounts of the cash those businesses generate to yourself is a bug, not a feature, at that scale.

It also leads to what I consider a warped set of values - mine too, as I mentioned above. Why should we prize those who are willing to work their butts off, over those who are feckless but incredibly kind?? We shouldn't but our world sure does.

[hanford]

George Orwell /animal farm, read the background on why this book is important.

Ever work in a company were some do nothing but run their mouth IE me this me that look at me
listen to me i do so much,bosses ,co workers add nauseum,well that is a micro cosm of the world
there are some who paddle the boat and some be dragging their oars ours same is true for socialismo
communisto ideology. For project, U name it ..to be constructive productive all concerned need to do
their part and responsability,and a compensation is a correct incentive.
The worker is worthy of Her/his labor, this is old and true..but compassion requires the society to provide
for the part of the whole,wich are kind and useless to be accepted taken care of ,for min,human needs

See Grapes of Wrath/

yep, this isn't a system designed to ensure that everyone benefits. It's claimed that it syncs well with psychology, that we all do benefit from the efforts of some who are motivated by greed, or something similar but not so greedy-sounding. (rising tide lifts all boats, whatever...) I don't think that's altogether true; people would pay to run Apple or Facebook if given the chance, just because they enjoy the gig. The fact that you can funnel huge amounts of the cash those businesses generate to yourself is a bug, not a feature, at that scale.

It also leads to what I consider a warped set of values - mine too, as I mentioned above. Why should we prize those who are willing to work their butts off, over those who are feckless but incredibly kind?? We shouldn't but our world sure does.