The Manure Smell is overwhelming and toxic! What can we do about it??

[podfish]

It is so strange to me that this very reasonable question about manure has caused some extremely vehement replies from people who apparently really love the smell of poop! Yikes. Come on people, put on your big kid pants and attain some composure.

The question was respectful toward farmers and non-farmers alike. But some of these angry aggressive replies, defending how delicious shit smells, sound like the aggressive people are on drugs or something....

Educate yourself on emotional intelligence and learn to communicate as respectable/respected adults.

I didn't think people wearing big-boy pants were that sensitive... somehow I lack the emotional intelligence to see the excessive aggression you mention. Or for that matter, any lack of composure in the posters. Why is 'vehement' a pejorative???? Also, I haven't noticed a lot of people begging for mercy from their attackers. There have been past Wacco threads where this wasn't the case - but this seems way within bounds. How decorous should a thread about poop be, anyway??

**People are getting ill from the overwhelming manure. That means that it is toxic.** Very easy concept to understand. Let's get some real ideas up here. No more petulant name-calling and belittlement. Let's see more of the good neighbors here.

see, here is an assertion without defense, made as if it's self evident. If that doesn't cry out for equally blunt rebuttal, I don't know what would.

[monicapl]

I couldn't have said it better myself... Aggression? Lack of composure? I must be reading the wrong thread. I don't see any of that. Maybe someone is mis-reading a difference in opinion as aggression by default?

I still want to know what the solution is for those that want the farmers to stop using manure (that they have, for free, and is all natural)? Would you prefer synthetic chemical fertilizers? This is really quite simple. I don't know that any of us "love the smell of poop," but I will take that any day over synthetics.

Strong smells give me a headache. It's not because they are toxic, but more that I am sensitive to them. Am I out there asking people to stop planting lavender in their yards because it gives me a headache (and by some of the logic here - it must be toxic!!)? No, I'm not. We can't ask everyone to change THEIR lives to suit US. It's selfish. Seriously, if you're having such a serious reaction to something it is probably best to distance yourself from it rather than expect a whole way of life for a whole community to change for YOU.

I didn't think people wearing big-boy pants were that sensitive... somehow I lack the emotional intelligence to see the excessive aggression you mention. Or for that matter, any lack of composure in the posters. Why is 'vehement' a pejorative???? Also, I haven't noticed a lot of people begging for mercy from their attackers. There have been past Wacco threads where this wasn't the case - but this seems way within bounds. How decorous should a thread about poop be, anyway??
see, here is an assertion without defense, made as if it's self evident. If that doesn't cry out for equally blunt rebuttal, I don't know what would.

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

Here is more than you would ever want to know about this subject from University of SanDiego.

https://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Public...5C44207001.pdf

[Sam]

Ah, man... And the snarky self-riotousness comes out again. It's almost ironic, how even my comment (and others' comments) about kindness and composure in debates gets criticized. A difference of opinion isn't the problem! It's the way in which a few (not all, not most even) people are coming on here, just to sound-off and belittle others. Those aggressors are just proving my point with these holier-than-though responses! And yes, it is aggressive; if you cannot see that, then you likely have many dysfunctional relationships in your life and shouldn't be spending your time here on this forum, when your life is in such disarray. (Yes, I am joking. Just trying to be lighter here. We need to all just calm down a little. Breeeathe.) :-) Look. The problem isn't the difference of opinion-- the problem is talking down to people, trying to make them look bad because of the difference of opinion.

So let's try to go back to the original question asked: "Please, does anyone have any realistic viable ideas about how we can solve this problem in a way that will keep the crops nurtured, without hurting the people anymore?"

(Don't respond just because you want to fight and feel 'right' over someone else. Do respond if you have a true rational resolution to this totally reasonable and respectful question. So many comments are about emotionally defending manure! Oh, dear God. And not about the question, seeking a solution to make more neighbors comfortable. People are fearful and uncomfortable, coming here to seek comfort; not debate on why you love shit so much. Haha! Every person here matters. We are mostly all hardworking goodhearted contributing members of this community; and when someone is scared about their health due to an overwhelming pungency of shit in the air, they have a right to go to their community and ask for help. It is so so simple. Still responding with snotty belittlement just makes *you* look really bad. Believe me. Just step away from the keyboard and take a breather before you respond with angry belittlement. Otherwise, you just look like a really really mean clueless neighbor again.) C'mon, let's be nice! And let's actually answer the question! :-)

[Shandi]

I'm sensitive to ordinary smells like raw onions, most perfumes (worn or in products) bleach, ammonia, car exhaust, mothballs, and manure, among other things. I realize that I really can't control these things. The only thing I can do is retreat to my room, because these odors are created by my housemate's habits. Since we have a few veggies growing in front, I get to smell manure as I approach the front door. It makes me feel a little sick, but I get over it quickly. I did get rid of the 5 boxes of mothballs that were really making me sick, and fearful for myself and my kitty. My landlord was oblivious to the toxic fumes he was creating in his room.

If people are actually ending up having to receive medical care from manure toxicity, I think it would be advisable to move away from the country, especially since they're paying a premium to live here.

[monicapl]

I think that what's truly ironic is that the person who is call for "kindness and composure" is the ONLY one calling names and making personal attacks. #winning

Ah, man... And the snarky self-riotousness comes out again. ...

[monicapl]

I agree! I can't be around or use about 99% of scented products. People wearing perfumes can force me to use my inhaler. It sucks, but it's part of my reality. I can control what's used in my own home and space, but it's really hard to do that elsewhere. It's about knowing your limits and working within them. At least we aren't alone.

I'm sensitive to ordinary smells like raw onions, most perfumes ....

[nancypreb]

Right?!! It's AMAZING… just AMAZING.

I think that what's truly ironic is that the person who is call for "kindness and composure" is the ONLY one calling names and making personal attacks. #winning

[Barry]

First off:

As I see it there are 2 questions on the table:

1) Has the manure smell gotten worse from decades ago? If so, why? Changes in methods of holding or distributing/applying it? Changes in animal diet? More acreage being treated? Changes or cessation of composting? Is this being reported elsewhere? Is there any measurement available for it?

2) Is there anything can be done to reduce the smell? Even if the same techniques are being used as long ago, it doesn't mean that is the current best practice. Not using manure is not one of the options (despite the many deleterious environmental effect of raising livestock).

Some research is called for. I suggest those of you who are complaining "dig in" a bit and report back some ideas.

Here are some links to get you started:

https://pubstorage.sdstate.edu/AgBio...s/ESS803-D.pdf
https://dairy.ifas.ufl.edu/other/fil...arch-brief.pdf
https://www.extension.umn.edu/agricu...nagement-plan/

[pbrinton]

...people who apparently really love the smell of poop!

...put on your big kid pants and attain some composure.

...aggressive people on drugs or something.

...just makes you a really awful neighbor.

Educate yourself on emotional intelligence and learn to communicate as respectable/respected adults.

Followed by:

No more petulant name-calling and belittlement. Let's see more of the good neighbors here.

Is it just me or is the irony getting a little thick here?

Patrick Brinton

[Sonoma]

You know, I have spent several years of my life confined to a bed, hooked up to wires and dependent upon others for cleaning and feeding me. I have experienced serious illness. All under the age of 30. I came to Sonoma County to try to heal and find kind loving people. My Great Aunt lived here because her great grandfather lived here long ago. My Aunt raised her children in Sebastopol. My mother came here for Summers and my family established real roots here. I was scared for my life, and did not know how much longer I had. So, I came to Sonoma, where my heart has always been. ...Somewhere, I felt, I knew, I hoped, that this place could make me better. The move here took several months of health away from me. But I just knew it would be worth it. I need to connect with my family, my home, here in Sonoma County.

To think that a friend suggest I try WaccoBB to find some answers to something that is really worrisome and scary for me. You know, I have posted before, and every. single. time. I have had to deal with people being hurtful and hostile, judgmental and pushy. ...Why?? Now this. I never said anything disrespectful toward farmers or the land or anything like that. I honestly thought I would maybe receive warm helpful suggestions. Instead, I am told to leave. I am told that I am the pushy one. I see people nit-picking words, twisting good intentions, and ganging up on those who defend kindness. And it is all done with such conviction. ...Why did I move here? I have realized now, that I made a mistake.

I don't belong among this hostile place. Goodbye to you all. Thank you Barry for being so kind to me. You have no idea what that has meant.

This is a very small community, and I am telling you, there is no room here for newcomers, not even those who are loving and friendly. Heartbreaking on unimaginable levels. In the biggest of ways... Goodbye.

[podfish]

.... I came to Sonoma County to try to heal and find kind loving people. ...
.... Instead, I am told to leave. I am told that I am the pushy one....
This is a very small community, and I am telling you, there is no room here for newcomers, not even those who are loving and friendly. Heartbreaking on unimaginable levels. In the biggest of ways... Goodbye.

I'm sorry for the extra challenges you have to meet. In many ways, you did pick a place where you might find a kind and helpful community. I think your friend who suggested a public BBS with frequent political discussions did you a disservice, though. Even within Wacco, I'm sure you can find areas that are dedicated to mutual support. You unfortunately strayed into an area of discussion where warmth and gentleness are unlikely - people debating public issues are quite likely to challenge those on another side.

Small communities like this can take time to navigate, but I bet your instincts were correct. There are many people here who seem to share your goals of living in a warm and supportive environment. I hope you find the parts of this community that give you the support you sought when you came here. You may not belong in this somewhat quarrelsome subgroup, but there's a lot more to the west county than us!

[Hotspring 44]

It's not 'just' you; yes, I also think the "irony" is getting a little 'thick'

And without getting too deep into the 'Frey" (pun intended) here, seems that there is from differing opinions a smidgen of a 'tit for tat' bit of quibbling, (unfortunately).

The reasonable questions asked in the beginning have been for the most part unanswered (other than tough it out or move somewhere else, etc.), instead mostly critique of the statements (which is OK {legitimate} and informative to a point but...).

...I have more to say which may or may not be posted , however, if I do post it, it will be later.

Is it just me or is the irony getting a little thick here?

Patrick Brinton

[Barry]

I am sorry to see this thread devolve so much.

This has been an interesting discussion, but it cut too close to the bone of some sacred cows (pun intended) around here which raised some defensiveness and fears which then festered. I tried to damp it down, but apparently not enough, especially allowing a new member more leeway than I should have.

Please accept my apologies on behalf of our community, Pat (Sonoma). I hope you'll stick around and give us another try.

Let's be kind and respectful, folks.

Please let the current fuss drop and return to the subject if you have anything constructive to add.

[diaba]

Sonoma,i too have chronic health problems with multiple chemical sensitivities being one of my symptoms. I do understand what you are trying to communicate. Some with good health have trouble being empathetic to symptoms they never experienced and don't understand. Sharing in a public forum is brave but often yields both positive and negative responses.

If you share your concerns on a support group where others understand what you are going thru, chances are you will receive positive helpful responses. That is what I do.

[hanford]

Hello all posters and postnasal drippers ,I really am kind of disgusted in the amount of air
that has been wasted with sniveling about cow manure stank ,have oyu not better things to
be concerned with? Our all knowing eldersparkles person gerald brown of sac town has
already put a new law on the books that could ,restrict farmers ,put others out of business
and the nature of (ordinance) cow methane reduction and converters takes huge monetary
investment to implement . Only big farms could afford, and so methane control equals less
jobs ,higher milk cost ..remember in california milk is a big money maker second only to
grapes and marajauna ,in my opinion are same greed propelled ,polluting mono crops.
the whole point is to effectively reduce smell ,have ratios of cows to acre,and as many
allready know 95% or more dairies are organic ,this certification requires specific strict
policys on cow handling ,antibiotics, steroids ,other drugs, and MANURE PRACTICES .
so if you wish to live in a sanitary environment ,may I suggest MARS, flights leaving soon.
thank you and good night.

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

Problem solved????

Though I'm not sure how humane it is living your entire life with something crammed up your can

On a more serious side it sounds like the bill in question could solve the stink problem to a large extent. It is my hope that the state will largely fund the installation of these methane units. I'm not talking about the fart catching unit in the picture but the methane digesters that the dairies will need to install. They cost about a million and a half per. I believe the stuff that comes out of them doesn't stink that much and still makes good fertilizer.

[Sam]

I am so so sorry that you have had to suffer as you have! Wow, you seem to be very wise beyond your years, and now we see why. I want to apologize for any bit of negativity and unsupportive behavior that you have encountered. You are a young person, coming here for help. This community as a whole is very wonderful and kind. I am so sorry that you have not had the opportunity to see that. Please know that most of us are loving and would never want to hurt you or anyone else. We embrace you and support you! You deserve that.

Again, I am sorry for the way that you have been (so unfairly and unjustly) treated. I promise, most of us are respectful and well-mannered. Sonoma County is known for its heart and soul! Please feel free to send me a private email if I can help you in any way. I mean that.

Blessings, Sam

You know, I have spent several years of my life confined to a bed, hooked up to wires and dependent upon others for cleaning and feeding me. I have experienced serious illness. All under the age of 30. I came to Sonoma County to try to heal and find kind loving people. ...

[Barry]

...Our all knowing eldersparkles person gerald brown of sac town has
already put a new law on the books that could ,restrict farmers ,put others out of business
and the nature of (ordinance) cow methane reduction ...

Indeed Gov Moonbeam has! It's not directly related to the offensive odor under discussion, but still an interesting and related sidelight:


California governor backs rules on cow, landfill emissions

By Jonathan J. Cooper | AP September 19
SACRAMENTO, Calif. — California will begin regulating greenhouse-gas emissions tied to dairy cows and landfills under legislation signed Monday by Gov. Jerry Brown, escalating state efforts to fight climate change beyond carbon-based gases to include methane and other pollutants.

The law targets a category of gases known as short-lived climate pollutants, which have an outsize effect on global warming despite their relatively short life in the atmosphere. Environmentalists hope that tackling short-lived pollutants now would buy time to develop new and more affordable technology to reduce carbon emissions.

California has stoked a global reputation for its attempts to slow climate change through a combination of strict mandates against pollution and financial incentives for green technology.

The new law requires steep reductions in a variety of pollutants, including methane; HFC gases used in aerosols and air conditioning refrigerants; and soot, known as black carbon. It’s tied to $90 million in funding for the dairy industry and garbage collectors.

“This bill curbs these dangerous pollutants and thereby protects public health and slows climate change,” the Democratic governor said in a statement.

Republicans said the strict regulations will hurt agricultural businesses, despite concessions made to dairy farmers.

Dairy farmers will be required to reduce methane emissions from manure to 40 percent below their 2013 levels by 2030, with the help of $50 million from the state’s fee charged to polluters, known as cap-and-trade.

The money will help a handful of them buy dairy digesters, which use methane from manure to generate energy that’s sold to electrical utilities.

The law also allows the Air Resources Board to regulate cow flatulence if there’s viable technology to reduce it.

Continues here