The Manure Smell is overwhelming and toxic! What can we do about it??

[JayS]

Wow. I am far from being politically correct, but Nancy, you have got 'issues'. Don't know what they are, but I suggest you step back from your knee jerk reactions, think about it, review, then hit the send button. I'll bet you would be mortified a week or so from now when you re-read what you are spewing.

Or not. In that case, please spare the rest of us your subjective ranting.

You know what Barry, you're right, you're completely right, you're so incredibly RIGHT!!! ....

[pearl g]

Is it true that the manure and some urine is liquefied and then sprayed in the pastures that cows then use for grazing? If so, that seems gross. I assume there is a waiting period before cows eat from those pastures? Also, I always assumed it was a necessary smell. Now I wonder if spraying on the hottest days of summer is necessary. Why is that?
Please don't jump down my throat if I worded my questions wrong. I love cows.

[Ronaldo]

One solution:
Vick’s Vapor Rub can be rubbed under your nose. It won’t help the scent go away, but it will give you something else to smell.

[rossmen]

Don't mess with Nancy, she will rip your guts out and eat you for lunch, with glee. A proud carnivore is she. West county is the kind of country where small farm, integrated agriculture, agrarian pastoral mashup makes sense you see. Some celebrate, some critique, we all gotta eat. Most don't have the integrity, to slaughter an animal raised well, perhaps named, and eat knowing the look in its eye, knowing the consciousness and soul of death, which brings life.

Wow. I am far from being politically correct, but Nancy, you have got 'issues'...

[hanford]

Here in the state of california if you are a native one is well aware of agg and cattle,and dairy cows are part of the environment ,and have been for 200 plus years ,if one has objections to odors ,that we superior humans so cleverly conceal and ,sanitize :then as a odorobjectifyer ,some choices have to be made.

Instead of the legislating out of farm smells ,as seen in the tragic loss of organic soil co. at.. Mecham rd because supervisor board members or others I'm not shure object to rotting organic leaf matter. And so If you prefer a perfect wine tasting, summer villa with none of the troubling olfactory sensations, then may I suggest a holographic test tube in Los Angeles.,thank you ,hanford for agg/cows,chickens.

[rossmen]

Both grabngrow and Sonoma compost at the dump have struggled with neighbors ready to lawyer up and shut down the stink and traffic. It's a lifestyle thing I hope you see, so a private company bends over backwards and the county (ie bos), bails, to the detriment of sustainability. Sweet compost is lost, perfection is pushed farther away, in the name of accountability. This is the crazy way of our society.

I've sure felt the loss of our recycling facilities, ...

[beshiva]

right on!
it's amazing how much smell we tolerate from the verbal bullshit of our elected officials who make so many stinky deals....

Here in the state of california if you are a native one is well aware of agg and cattle,and dairy cows are part of the environment ,and have been for 200 plus years ,if one has objections to odors ,that we superior humans so cleverly conceal and ,sanitize :then as a odorobjectifyer ,some choices have to be made.

Instead of the legislating out of farm smells ,as seen in the tragic loss of organic soil co. at.. Mecham rd because supervisor board members or others I'm not shure object to rotting organic leaf matter. And so If you prefer a perfect wine tasting, summer villa with none of the troubling olfactory sensations, then may I suggest a holographic test tube in Los Angeles.,thank you ,hanford for agg/cows,chickens.

[Roberta Llewellyn]

I have read many of the comments to: 'The Manure Smell is overwhelming and toxic! What can we do about it??"
And, have been dismayed by so many who have suggested to those who object to the stench that they realize it is part of farming agriculture culture over decades and that those of us who feel it needs to be sanitized get with the program and get over it; as well, as some who have suggested our politics are suspect and that we are in need of overall deprogramming from any mainstream reality that likes our air to smell good...umm?

The question the person posed with complete credibility relates to: What can we do about it? This to me is the crux of this issue not all the obnoxious remarks about a person's lack of Green Earth Warrior/Goddess authenticity and being able to bear with stench but about how to alleviate this problem which is apparently causing many to have respiratory distress, headaches, and in general a need to close themselves off from pursuing out of doors activities...

[kittymama23]

I do agree that this awful fertilizer smell seems to come around more often than once a year and I'd like to know why it smells so bad myself. It has become worse over the past 10 years, IMO, also. I am from farm country in the Midwest, and while California cows may be happy cows, they sure do seem to stink a lot worse. I especially don't understand why it all too often smells like dead animals are in the mix - manure should smell almost green and fresh. Is it a super high urine content,too? But, it doesn't burn my eyes or make me cough; I just dislike it immensely. I certainly don't encourage anyone to come visit this time of year. For all the work these neighboring cities put in to making their towns a tourist-pleasing spot, you'd think they'd want to change this part of the scenario.

I'm also from farm country in Minnesota and I do agree this manure we smell here is a much more " aromatic" blend. I first attributed it to the fact that I literally live next-door to a farm, and took it with a grain of salt as part of the price of being able to walk next-door and get amazing fresh fruit and veggies. Having lived in the city for almost 40 years that's a real treat!

On the flipside, however, it is kind of nauseating during the heat waves. I usually burn a scented candle but do have a post on here looking for a new place to live.... Not that it appears the smell will be different there. Having said that, I just figured this smell is part of the price of living in such a beautiful location. But now I'm extremely disconcerted to hear that it could be literally toxic. I'll be following this thread closely to see what comes of that Discussion.

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

I'm just wondering if everyone is looking at the right culprit. I was told that the strong odor has more to do with whey the byproduct of making yogurt, cheese and cottage cheese. This whey is fed to cattle, and or spread on the fields at a certain times of the year as far more whey is produced that can be used locally.

[ChefJayTay]

I think anyone who eats meat, or dairy should try living within 10 miles of a CAFO, even just for a week.
Marketing & media have so separated reality from the supermarket that people don't understand what they are asking.

This discussion reminds me of the people who despise veal while consuming dairy daily.

[beshiva]

Hallelujah and Amen!
thank you- i would not have said it so nice/nice
i was trying to imagine the sight of "good people" driving out of town in droves-

I hear you Carol and I do appreciate what you are saying ...

[rossmen]

I have live in the same place for 28 yrs, just north of increasingly stuentrchtown (stupid entitled rich town aka sebastopol). The smell has been less frequent over the years, consistent in flavor. Smell Memory? The definition of Subjectivity!

I'm also from farm country in Minnesota and I do agree this manure we smell here is a much more " aromatic" blend. ...

[monicapl]

I am a west county native. This is where I grew up, and now I am raising my children here. Honestly, if you have an issue with the smell I think it's time to move on. "Sonoma Aroma" is part of living here. It's not toxic, just stinky. It's really just local farmers using the poo from their cows to fertilize their fields in order to have pasture for the cows that made the poo next season. Seriously, could you not have a better closed loop system?

Don't fear the poo. It's GOOD.

[Beanie]

Interesting reading - on both sides. But I have a lighter side I just have to share.
While visiting the Cradle of Mankind in South Africa - I smelled the most wonderful flower - it smelled purple to me and I hunted all around the gardens but no luck.

A few weeks later, I was in a fish camp on the Zambezi and smelled it again, but alas, I could not find that wonderful purple flower.

Upon returning to my beloved Sebastopol, low and behold! The flower was here and I smelled it frequently!
Eventually (and I won't say how) I discovered that my new status in life (probably menopause) was making (you guessed it) POOP SMELL PURPLE!

[Dick]

Thank you Beanie for bringing some sanity to this place.

[mouse]

Vote for Noreen Evans!

[rossmen]

Why? Does one of them stink less? I just saw both of them today at the the low river flow hearing. I have no idea what either of them think about a scheduled public hearing about long term environmental policy where the feds aid the bos in toileting the river to get more water for novato. And it starts over an hour late so people like me with small children can't participate. Find out for me will ya?

Vote for Noreen Evans!

[Sonoma]

Barry, I mean this with my fullest, deepest sincerity. You are one of the most intelligent, heart-filled men I have ever encountered. You seriously have such a deep, wise and assured way of communicating! People should take note -literally- of how you respond; with confidence, fairness and kindness. Thank you!!!!

It is disappointing to see all of the responses that just came out with boxing gloves on, happy to start fighting and hurting others who experience life differently than they do. But I am deeply grateful to those who thoroughly read my sincere question and tried to suggest solutions.

I really meant it when I said that I was hoping this community had realistic viable ideas about how we can solve this problem in a way that will keep the crops nurtured, without hurting the people anymore. I am a Northern California native. Born and raised here. I understand, and deeply respect the earth and the agricultural processes here in beautiful Sonoma Wine Country! Still, when many of our bodies are having serious diminishing health reactions to the overwhelming fertilizer odors, then the manure is becoming toxic. The negative health reaction is the very definition of toxicity. This is a very real and sincere problem. If we cannot communicate respectfully, the problem will only get worse.

Thank you, Barry, and everyone else, who has shown heart and intelligent thought in this important issue facing our community. Please, let's pull together and find a solution that will not hurt the crops or the people! ~All LOVE

Putting aside your continued bullying, I don't think you understood what the link you cited said:


If we take this at face value, or more precisely nose value, given that we can smell it, it can cause "headaches, dizziness and nausea", if not death. I don't think this is an appropriate application of Nietzsche's maxim of "What does not kill me, makes me stronger" . Just because it doesn't literally kill people doesn't mean it's not a problem that should be addressed or at least looked into.

And while your point that a majority of the local dairies are organic or transitional is welcome, that doesn't speak to their manure management practices.

I support Sonoma County's Right to Farm Ordinance, but I don't think it should exempt them from being good neighbors nor from conforming with dairy best practices.

[rossmen]

I believe that if you call out a problem, it is also your responsibility to suggest a solution. So what would you have done about the fact that cow shit stinks and farmers spread it on their fields in the Fall? Would you outlaw it as an unacceptable agricultural nuisance, proven by science to be toxic? In our lawyer driven society be carefull what questions you ask, you might get what you want.

...I really meant it when I said that I was hoping this community had realistic viable ideas about how we can solve this problem in a way that will keep the crops nurtured, without hurting the people anymore. ...

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

This thread got me reading up on shit, shit stink, cow waste and the like. Somethings of note from that reading.

Everyones smell sensitivity is different and can be vastly different. By vastly differnt I mean by a hunderd times or more. Or put another way for a smell to be objectionalbe to one person at 1 part per billion and the next person 100 parts per billion wont bother even though both find the odor objectionable. Smell sensitivety to certain odors tends to run in families. Women of child bearing years tend to be more sensitive. So when someone says it's effecting my whole family that has merrit. Odors are the strongest sense connedt to our emotions. While this strong smell can bring on fear and discomfort for some it reminds me of long summer days as a teen in the Petaluma area just hanging out by my friends swimming pool listening to the new group The Beatles. I don't like the smell but it is like any other smell to me and even brings back fond memories.

Certain chemicals produced from the natural anarobic breakdown of manure are odorous to some people in a concentration of 1]6 part PER BILLION. What this means is even though it smells like hell you are likely getting very little actual exposure unless you live right by a dairy or feed lot. If you live in the west county your exposure to untested on humans pesticides, and fungicides from agriculture, mostly grapes now is likely dozens of times greater. Just because you can't smell it doesn't mean you aren't getting it. The bees may be telling you the story.

These super smelly by products of anaerobic manure breakdown vary considerably depending on what the cows are eating and which proteins are making it out the cows asshole. This is why I have been pointing to the cheese whey that is often fed to the cows in the west county. So when someone says I lived by a dairy back east and it didn't smell this strong that is probibly right. Also things like humidity which is very low here this time of the year can have a lot to do with how far an odors will travel.

As I pointed out before one of the smelliest byproducts of anerobic manure breakdown is used to odorize natural gas and propane because you can smelled it in less than point 2 parts per billion. Most of the really toxic ag chemicals don't smell at all. And the one that does smell the sulfur isn't toxic. In other words if given the choice of not being exposed to the agrochemicals in our area or the shit by product odor take the not being exposed to the agichemicals.

Most of the time the nose knows but I believe not in this case.

[Shandi]

I appreciate your in depth research. Although I dislike the smell of manure when I step outside to enjoy the beautiful weather, I've never considered that it might be toxic. I'm more concerned with the spraying of Round Up around the senior park where I live, even though it doesn't smell. Since my cat eats grass, I try to keep her away from the sprayed grass, at least for a few days. Many residents don't know and wouldn't care because they use Round Up themselves.

What you said about everyone's sensitivity being vastly different is so true. I'm seeing a lot of extreme reactions to the noise of the Smart Train. Some love it because it reminds them of the "good ole days" when they were children, or any fond memories they associate with the sound. Others hate it, and are appealing to the cities to initiate a lower decibel sound, especially when near homes. Novato has been successful, so that's encouraging to Rohnert Park residents.

Other issues about Smart Train are that it intrudes on privacy in one's backyard or even inside the house unless windows are covered. That's going to be up to the residents to deal with on their own, since Smart Train isn't going to build a "privacy wall".

Our preferences vary so much. It would seem that most people want to live in Sebastopol, and many can't quite comprehend why I don't. I may be in the minority, but that's actually nothing new. I've never been one to go along with the crowd, and even now, you won't see me with my eyes glued on a cell phone display while driving, or walking along a sidewalk, or sitting with friends at a restaurant. My preference is to be aware of what's around me, and to appreciate the brief time I have to interact with friends. But again, that puts me in the minority category.

[monicapl]

Maybe it would be a good idea for you start a thread on smart train? Or cell phones? Especially given your strong feelings on such topics.

I appreciate your in depth research. ...

[Sonoma]

Thank you again to all of the people who have given the kind respectful responses! It means a lot, and reflects highly on you as well. ...Thank you!!

Here is more proof of the toxicity of manure! This area is full of aging adults and people with chronic illness and sensitivities. This really is serious. This is a short, but scary and honest news report from academic research on the dangers of simple (chemicle-free, no additives, etc.) manure:
https://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/news/2012/10/beware-of-toxic-gases-from-manure-storages


(PS. I will not respond to any of the rude judgmental and bullying comments here. ...If this comment offends you personally, then you may just be one of the few who have done the offending yourself. Look inside yourself before you act on your desire to hurt someone else. ...Again, to everyone else with kind hearts and respectful comments, I appreciate you good people very very much!!) :-)

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

My goal on this thread is to find out more an possibly lessen the fear some people may be having over this issue. This article reminds me of the time as a Graton Fire Figher the department went to a call at Martini and Pratti winnery on Laguna Rd. They had almost exactly the same setup as this article described. They had large inground fermenting pools. Think of several swimming pools side by side. Fermentation was going on in one and the others were empty. As the grapes fermented for wine making the empty pool filled up with heavier than air carbon dioxide. One worker dropped something and went down in the tank to retrieve it and keeled over, a second guy went in to try to pull him out and he went down. By the time firefighters got there two were dead and a third guy was saved though he probibly was never the same.

So yes the fermentation process can cause deadly gasses. However it's all about the concentration. Those guys went into a 100% CO2 environment. So 100% CO2 kills you and kills you fast doesn't that mean even a small amount of CO2 is bad for you? No it doesn't mean that at all. We breath carbon dioxide in every breath, always have and always will. Without it life as we know it would not exist on earth. It was probibly CO2 that took the boys down in the article you posed. Anarobic bacteria as found in dairy shit ponds and tanks also produces other gasses but that is not what you are smelling. I do not believe that even a measurable amout of elevated carbon dioxide or the other gases mentioned in the article could be measured in the Sebastopol area and certainly not at dangerous levels. IIt just doesn't work that way. You are probibly getting far more from the wine operations anyway.

Put another way if you were to sequester the gasses that can be dangerous to humans in high levels from your car from a trip to San Francisco and inhale it directly it would kill you in minutes, same with a bakery from yeast action or the leaves decaying under the trees at your house or your neighbors wood stove, or you home heating. It's all about concentrations and just because it smells bad does not mean that you are breathing high concentrations of dangerous gasses.

[nancypreb]

I'm going to try reeeeally hard to be veeeeery gentle with you, here- understanding how incredibly sensitive you are. I read your article. I'm not understanding how it is that context eludes you. This case that you use to prove your point is much like the scenario that Goat Rock Ukulele describes; it's referring to manure pits/storage structures and on-site farm operations. Do you live next to and/or spend a lot of time around manure storage structures?! I don't. Never have. I don't know a lot of people that do. I do know a lot of people who work in and around potentially hazardous materials and environments, where accidents can/have happened when proper precautions were not heeded, but I really, honestly do not know very many people, particularly aging adults or those with chronic diseases, who are generally affected by potentially hazardous work environments they are not actively engaged in. You could run the gamut of all the occupations that deal with concentrated gasses and hazardous waste materials and spend your days and nights worrying about a minuscule potential risk of being harmed by undetectable gasses, the probability of which is extremely low for anyone not actively engaged in the potentially hazardous environment, but that still wouldn't solve the issue which started this thread- the offensive SMELL. Your story here, just like GRU's, is a one-off accident that occurred in a work environment that the GENERAL PUBLIC is not subjected to. It is specifically about the process of agitating manure in an on-site setting. This is the piece that you seem to not quite understand. These were farm kids who live and play at the job site, not the general population. Have you any idea how many potential hazards there are on a farm? Have you any idea how much potential danger farm families are subjected to, that the general public never ever has to encounter?! If you are still genuinely concerned about your risk of toxic poisoning as a result of manure agitation, I would definitely heed the recommended precautions stated in your article, namely "Bystanders and nonessential workers should stay away during agitation and manure pump-out operations."

I would like to thank everyone who has been level-headed. I would like to thank everyone who is not an alarmist. I would like to thank everyone who has a kind heart, is rational, and speaks their mind freely. It reflects highly on you.

Thank you again to all of the people who have given the kind respectful responses! It means a lot, and reflects highly on you as well. ...Thank you!!

Here is more proof of the toxicity of manure! This area is full of aging adults and people with chronic illness and sensitivities. This really is serious. This is a short, but scary and honest news report from academic research on the dangers of simple (chemicle-free, no additives, etc.) manure:
https://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/news/2012/10/beware-of-toxic-gases-from-manure-storages
...

[Ronaldo]

I'm confident that the local dairy farmers are aware of the dangers of "manure storage", they have kids too. However, the thread is about the use of manure as it is spread onto the fields and not about the concentrated gases that accumulate in storage areas. A study that indicates danger or harm from using manure spread on fields would be more pertinent to this discussion. Perhaps the researchers at Penn State addressed that issue as well. Here is their contact link: https://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/contact

...Here is more proof of the toxicity of manure! ...
https://extension.psu.edu/plants/cro...anure-storages

[podfish]

...They had large inground fermenting pools. Think of several swimming pools side by side. Fermentation was going on in one and the others were empty. As the grapes fermented for wine making the empty pool filled up with heavier than air carbon dioxide. One worker dropped something and went down in the tank to retrieve it and keeled over, a second guy went in to try to pull him out and he went down. By the time firefighters got there two were dead and a third guy was saved though he probibly was never the same.

a similar thing happened to a bunch of people over a wide area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos

but gasses by their nature diffuse really fast. It really isn't reasonable to worry about low concentrations of things that are only 'toxic' in extremely high ones.

[rossmen]

What many don't seem to get is our manure and how we dispose of it also stinks and comes out the top (hopefully), of any building with modern plumbing. Co2, hydrogen sulfide, methane and ammonia, it's all there right at our rooftops from our own excrement.

[Sam]

It is so strange to me that this very reasonable question about manure has caused some extremely vehement replies from people who apparently really love the smell of poop! Yikes. Come on people, put on your big kid pants and attain some composure.

The question was respectful toward farmers and non-farmers alike. But some of these angry aggressive replies, defending how delicious shit smells, sound like the aggressive people are on drugs or something. It makes no sense. Pat's original question was kind and clear. There is a real concern from a lot of us Sonoma County residents about the growing pungency of the cow poop smells! It is not unreasonable to look to the community for some happy-medium answers. It is not just one time per year, it is year round now, off and on. I've lived here forever now, and it has definitely gotten much worse in recent years. It has gotten harsher and sharper. It is not okay that we have to lock ourselves in our houses and avoid asking friends and relatives to come to town because of the overwhelming punch of shit in the air. To start yelling at the poor people who are concerned about their directly-effected health and safety, just makes you a really awful neighbor.

Educate yourself on emotional intelligence and learn to communicate as respectable/respected adults.

**People are getting ill from the overwhelming manure. That means that it is toxic.** Very easy concept to understand. Let's get some real ideas up here. No more petulant name-calling and belittlement. Let's see more of the good neighbors here.