Efren Returns! Now what about recall?

[sebastacat]

TO ALL WACCOBBIANS:

I have just read on the Press Democrat online Web Site that Fifth District Supervisor Efren Carrillo
has returned and will be attending tomorrow's meeting of the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors, which
begins at 8:30 a.m.

But, wait, weren't we told just last week that he would need to continue his rehab and would NOT be
returning for several more weeks?

So as to not be redundant and incur anyone's wrath, I would ask you all to please read my prior post for my opinion about this latest development.

Yes, the drama continues. In fact, Sebastacat feels that it's probably really just beginning.

[Sara S]

Hmmm, I'll look again, but I didn't see this in the print edition....

[Shepherd]

I hope that those who were able to go to the sups meeting this morning or to hear or see what Efren says, to report back to us, including your own responses. I hope that we can welcome a variety of points of view.

[Sara S]

Yes, the article was in today's print version (wireless!)......and I got the "wireless" part from a cartoon in the Sunday print version by Mike Smith of the Las Vegas Sun.....

[Barry]

Here's the complete statement that Efren read when he re-appeared at the Board of Supervisors meeting this morning:

---

So it appears he is not going to resign. That is most unfortunate. I expect that an expensive and ugly recall campaign will ensue.

There are two related issues here. First, did Efren commit a crime? That's for the Napa DA and courts to decide. But a separate question is whether is if his constituents want him removed from office.

Regarding the legal issue, I suspect that the trial will involve something less than "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Efren's got a high powered lawyer, and many powerful friends. Life could easily be a bit less kind for a county employee that does not cooperate with Efren's team, and perhaps much comfier for those who do cooperate.

This process starts with the charges being filed on Aug 30th. No doubt Efren's team has been in touch with the unfortunate woman involved trying to make a settlement so that she either drops charges or doesn't press the felony charges.

So I suspect we really won't ever "find out the facts" of what actually happened in order to asses if a recall is appropriate.

And in some sense it doesn't really matter. Efren is now publicly admitting he is an alcoholic and that that was the source of his misbehavior.

So the question really turns on, is it appropropriate for someone who was an alcoholic, who didn't acknowledge it despite that "his closest friends had for some time 'begged' him to stop drinking", and who seriously misbehaved on at least 2 occasions before acknowledging his problem, to continue to serve and represent our district?

Is it best for the district? Is is best for Efren?

I have serious doubts about both, although I have to say I am not convinced either way.

Are all transgressions committed under the influence to be forgiven? Is alcoholism a "get out of jail free card"? Or "get to keep your seat" card? Is misbehavior by an un-acknowledged alcoholic to be treated differently than someone is not alcoholic but none the less misbehaves while under the influence? Are transgressions by a public official in their personal life grounds to remove an official that have otherwise done a reputable job while on the job? Is being a County Supervisor compatible with beginning the first part of recovery from alcoholism compatible?

While I welcome everybody's opinion here, I am very much interested to hear from people who either supported Efren before these mishaps and now would support a recall, or who did not support Efren but would also not support a recall. If you don't fall into either of these is there reason to believe that your opinion is not just an extension of your prior support or lack thereof?

I've added a new poll to this thread regarding whether he should be recalled.
See this thread on the website to vote.

[Valley Oak]

I was at the Sup's meeting this morning and I asked for Carrillo's resignation. So did several other people including Lisa Maldonado, Colleen Fernald, and others whose names I am not familiar with.

After the public comment finished and while the remaining three Supervisors stayed in their seats for further business or simply recapping, talking casually, and cleaning up, Carrillo quietly got up and left out the back door. This seemed to me to be out of public embarrassment and not being able to stay their chatting it up with his other colleagues.

Colleen Fernald spoke with me after the meeting and she expressed her opinion that Carrillo's resignation would result in the appointment of someone just as bad, if not worse than Carrillo. A recall would be ideal because We The People would be able to appoint the next Sup. That is the way it should be; this is a democracy (or at least it should be a democracy).

That said, I am still torn on this issue. Granted, electing Carrillo's replacement is best but what if that is juxtaposed to ousting Efren? If I had to choose between a delayed and costly fight to recall Carrillo and his staying in office in the meantime versus his immediate resignation, well, quite frankly I prefer the resignation. I don't like the idea of Carrillo hanging onto power and finishing out his term while we desperately try to get together a colossal, lengthy, and costly recall effort.

After this morning's meeting and so many public calls for Carrillo's resignation (and NO ONE spoke in support of Carrillo), it is crystal clear that the great majority of Sonomans want Efren out of power asap.

I want to add that Carrillo's statement, "I take full responsibility for my situation” is a lie. If he honestly did accept responsibility then he would have resigned already. He is a liar and a professional politician and he is not listening to you and me and the public's overwhelming calls for his termination. But Carrillo IS listening to his handlers' advice to hang on to power no matter how difficult things get. This is truly pathetic.

Edward

[dominus]

“There has been much speculation about my continued service on this board and in public life. Amidst this torrent of well-deserved and justified criticism directed toward me, I note that little of this criticism relates to the performance of my official duties,” Carrillo said.

If Efren Carrillo is a bonafide alcoholic, I can't help but wonder about his judgement while he was performing his official duties. Not so fast.

[Sara S]

Thank for this, Edward; I read his carefully crafted statement in the paper. I'm afraid that he'll hang on for as long as possible simply because resigning will end his career, period. He's done, but can't admit it yet......

I was at the Sup's meeting this morning and ...

[Barry]

Here's Efren reading his statement:

[sebastacat]

I have grave concerns about a couple of things which Barry mentioned in his post above. I will address them as follows:

"Efren is now publicly admitting he is an alcoholic and that that is the source of his misbehavior."

First of all, I find it extremely disturbing that he lied about this when he engaged in his ghetto-like conduct down in San Diego and offered up the lame (but effective) excuse of, I was defending the honor of women from rowdies.
Let's call a spade a spade, folks: HE LIED.

"Life could easily be a bit less kind for a county employee that does not cooperate with Efren's team and perhaps much comfier for those who do cooperate."

I would like to pose to all of you the following question: If this does turn out to be true, is Efren the kind of person whom you want representing you? I've read lots of posts on here which used the word "justice," and if that word means anything at all to those of you who have used it, you will answer the above question with a resounding "No."

Quite frankly, Sebastacat found Efren's prepared statement concocted, calculated and empty. And he has yet to formally apologize to the person in this entire matter that deserves it the most: the victim.

And it appears that he still hasn't learned his lesson, as he would not grant an interview, nor was he any more forthcoming about the details of this incident.

San Diego deja vu?

[meherc]

Learn about alcoholism. It would make your comments more accurate and intelligent.

TO ALL WACCOBBIANS:

I have just read on the Press Democrat online Web Site that Fifth District Supervisor Efren Carrillo
has returned and will be attending tomorrow's meeting of the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors, which
begins at 8:30 a.m.

But, wait, weren't we told just last week that he would need to continue his rehab and would NOT be
returning for several more weeks?

So as to not be redundant and incur anyone's wrath, I would ask you all to please read my prior post for my opinion about this latest development.

Yes, the drama continues. In fact, Sebastacat feels that it's probably really just beginning.

[Alexandra]

Regarding Efren's comment that his problems haven't affected his work- that is certainly open to question. I was one of the many parents that called his office, respectfully requesting a meeting regarding the proposed Vineyard Conversion adjacent to five schools on Watertrough. The petition that we forwarded to the Supervisor was signed by literally hundreds of his constituents. All of the parents that called were told that the Supervisor was booked around the clock for many months into the future and didn't have even a 10 minute window to meet with us. It seems extremely difficult to believe that given the severity of his situation-that he has admitted to- that this did not play a part in his day to day management of his responsibilities.

Learn about alcoholism. It would make your comments more accurate and intelligent.

[meherc]

As someone who had been sober for 23 years, I can tell you there are many, many functioning alcoholics. I bet at least 25% of the people in office are alcoholic. Remember all those martini lunches. I did not become any stupider or any smarter because of my alcoholism. IT IS A DISEASE. Like diabetes .Willpower doesn't cure it, just like you can't will away diabetes. I doubt he was guzzling Jack Daniels and playing liars dice in his office all day. My motto when I was drinking was "it seemed like a good idea at the time." But the time is when you are drunk, not working sober during the day.
As to rehab, there are many, many kinds -30, 60, or 90 day inpatient. 5 day a week out patient, 3 day a week out patient, AA. They all work if you're ready. In my experience, people are ready when they scare themselves with something they did while drinking. For me, I was in a blackout and tried to leap over the bar and deck the very large bartender because he wouldn't serve me any more. I was scared to death that I had done that and more so that I didn't remember it.
I am sure this scared the bejesus out of Efren. I have always found him to be a good man, a good supervisor and responsive to his constituents. When I was in trouble, none of the other supervisors would even answer my calls. Efren went out the same day to talk to she who will not be named to try to persuade her to lighten up on us. I see him at almost every nonprofit fundraiser, actually talking to people, asking them what they think. about issues and what are their concerns.
I haven't heard from this woman he harassed but I can tell you that a man tried to break into my house to get me, not possessions, holding a bottle of bourbon, hid in the back yard (while leaving his car in my driveway!). I called the police, they found him, I pressed charges and the DA's office dropped them saying it was only trespassing. Meanwhile, I was arrested in court for BATTERING an officer. I weigh 112 lbs. then they added more charges of resisting arrest. Those charges were not dropped either. All were false but if I were Efren Carillo, I would probably be painted as a cop killer. My point is the legal system is crap. There is no justice and I can't believe we liberal West County people are attacking this man for being drunk and extending that to the rest of his life. What about Teddy Kennedy? Mimi Eisenhower, Betty Ford. You can't possibly denigrate Betty Ford for bad decision making after what she did to bring breast cancer and addiction into the light.. I am actually horrified that this seems to be the main complaint against the man and the reason to boot him out of office. Perhaps an excuse for disagreeing with his stance on some issues. I think we should drive all those people who were obsessed with leaf blowers for so long out of town. .I don't agree with them and maybe some are wearing leather and chains under their clothes. Reason enough to run them out. Leather makes you sweaty and you can't think straight if you're too hot..
Sorry such a long post- anyone who knows me knows I talk a lot.

“There has been much speculation about my continued service on this board and in public life. Amidst this torrent of well-deserved and justified criticism directed toward me, I note that little of this criticism relates to the performance of my official duties,” Carrillo said.

If Efren Carrillo is a bonafide alcoholic, I can't help but wonder about his judgement while he was performing his official duties. Not so fast.

Marilyn

[Shepherd]

I usually do not read the online comments to PD articles, mainly because most of them are written by regulars and not moderated. However, I have been amazed that almost all the responses to Efren Carrillo's situation have been critical of his staying in office, for a variety of reasons. One of the best, in my opinion, was by Santa Rosa City Council person Marsha Vas Dupre, which follows, as well as a couple of responses to her. I respect this elected official for having the courage lacked by other electeds to speak up in a strong voice.

Marsha Vas Dupre · Top Commenter · The Ohio State University Wishing to make an addiction go away does not work. Either Efren or his puppet handlers - or all - have made an unconscionable mistake. This will not only retard his recovery process, but will also render the much-needed service to the Fifth District constituents vulnerable. Reply · 32 · Like · 17 hours ago


Sue Whitaker · 
Follow · Top Commenter Marsha Vas Dupre completely agree with you Marsha. I think Carrillo's handlers & his attorney are dong a disservice to him & to the Fifth District. I have seen other public people tried in the PD & it is not a pretty sight & the outcome is usually a lose/lose.
 Reply · 8 · Like · 14 hours ago






Edward OBrien · Foreman at Pacific Gas and Electric Company I agree with Marsha Vas Dupre . I remember a time when standards of morality were much higher than todays standards. The old saying "when the old ways go, you need something of value to replace them with" applies here. I think some of this generation has lost it's moral compass. Of course I think Carrillo should resign or be recalled.

[dominus]

In reading Efren Carrillo's carefully worded statement yesterday and listening to him today, I thought he hit all the right notes of contrition with just the right amount of humility but something felt false about it. Self-reproach isn't sobriety which is a declaration of truth. Granted he must remain silent about his case yet what he did yesterday struck me more as strategic rather than fully appropriate given the circumstances.

[Barry]

The Sonoma West posted an article about Efren's statement and included this:

The response to Carrillo’s statement was running about even Tuesday at his office, said Carrillo’s District Director Susan Upchurch. “It’s pretty evenly split between ‘hang in there’ and ‘resign now,’” said Upchurch. “It’s pretty close, maybe a few more are supportive.”

[arthunter]

I think that addiction is very common in this county and everywhere else ... I know that I was addicted to pot for many years and, though it interfered with my private life, I never allowed it to interfere with my career. I ran a couple of very complex businesses, one of them international, and my associates and employees never suspected that I was absolutely loaded when I was not working. For me, it was a combination of stress and quitting nicotine that led to that addiction .... how many other addicts are functioning and productive? ... quite a few I would guess ....

Really, the question is, does this interfere with his work ... honestly, I don't see evidence of that but only he would know for sure ...

[arthunter]

Oh hi Henry ... welcome back!

I think if you read my entire post you might realize that I was talking about addiction, while active, interfering with one's work ... my vision's fine, thanks ...

Regarding the rest ... well that depends on how you view alcoholism ... if you view it as a disease, then he's entitled to time off to cure a disease ... if it were cancer, no one would question it ...

Hmmm, Arthunter, uh, Efren's been MIA while collecting his $3000 for each of the last six weeks he's spent withdrawing from alcohol addiction. During this time, he's done nada concerning the job for which he's been paid $18,000. This does seem evidence of his drinking having 'interfered with his work', and at the tax payers expense. You might want to have your vision checked.

[arthunter]

Oh stop it Henry ... I am not making light of cancer ... that's just ridiculous ... and I will not repeat my point because you didn't get it the first time so you're not going to get it the second time ...

you have insulted me with almost every response that you have written ... sorry, but I'm not playing this game ....

I'm so tired of this. ...

[Barry]

Possibly this is rude of me

It is rude of you, Henry. Your tone-deaf argument in this case is invalidating anything else you might have to say. Quit while you are behind.

[arthunter]

This might be of interest .... I agree with this theory because of my personal experience ... my father did not enjoy alcohol and though I tried to drink with the rest of my friends, my body simply rejected it ... I barely got high and would usually want to sleep halfway through a drink ... I believe that this was a genetic reaction based on body chemistry ... believe me, I tried ... ( I was a very boring date ) ...

https://www.acbr.com/fas/Alcoholism-...0Explained.htm

[Fillie]

Keepin' it real; how many active alcoholic politicians do you think there currently are in office? At least he has begun his recovery, and that may well put him ahead of the whole shebang, with clearheadedness and driven by the principles he now will be following in his ongoing recovery practice...Just sayin...The local alcoholism rate is up to 25% to 30% in his age group. And that doesn't even include the prescription dependent/abusers we have in office. Remember Nancy Reagan and her "Just Say No" speech, where she fell over backwards off a bench, like a Kafka-esque bug, because she was so stoned on benzos?
There are over 300 AA meetings a week in Sonoma County, with an average of about 50 attendees. There are about 100 NA meetings here too. And MA, CA, SA...go figure.

“There has been much speculation about my continued service on this board and in public life. Amidst this torrent of well-deserved and justified criticism directed toward me, I note that little of this criticism relates to the performance of my official duties,” Carrillo said.

If Efren Carrillo is a bonafide alcoholic, I can't help but wonder about his judgement while he was performing his official duties. Not so fast.

[Barry]

Barry, possibly you subscribe to the 'addiction' defense. It doesn't matter. You'll have to do better than admonish me with supposition. Give me something to chew on, something substantive, something concrete. "Quit while you're behind" is only trite.

Alcoholism is generally accepted as a disease. What disease it's get's compared to is immaterial. The notion is that extends beyond bad judgement or even character flaws. From a employment point of view it is treated like another disease. I think this is appropriate. Admitting it publicly is a huge deal. And like cancer, it's held as an eternal recovery/remission. You are never really cured.

The fact that he has been on paid leave due to alcoholism, as claimed, is really not relevant. The question is, somewhat, did it impair his performance while doing his job? But more importantly, will it impair his performance going forward.

Even if it impaired him 25%, he still put in extra 25% over his required 100% with the hours and energy he brought to his job.

He admitted to being a "binge" drinker, which in my understanding, is episodic, as opposed to daily. I don't have the slightest feeling that somehow I didn't get my money's worth from his work before this episode.

I think we should understand "binge" drinking better is we are to understand Efren's plight. Anybody care to help?

Given that he has publicly admitted he is an alcoholic any future drinking on his part should be considered highly skeptically.

What bugs me a bit [notice how I am deftly changing the topic ] is that when he was arrested (how long after the 911 calls was that?) he did not appear to be drunk. That doesn't add up. Does alcoholism make your stupid even when you are not drunk? I also don't like that the police didn't give him an alcohol test. Sounds fishy. Perhaps it was drugs rather than alcohol? But even it it were, the rehab program probably addressed that as well.

So if he is to be recalled, why is that? Because of past behavior? But that was a disease. Because of mistrust of future behavior? General punishment?

[arthunter]

Honestly, do these links portray a man who is asleep at the job?

https://supervisors.sonoma-county.org/content.aspx?sid=1006&id=1020

https://www.efrencarrillo.com/endorsements.php

[meherc]

I think that was a brave and honest statement from Efren. I applaud him.I just don't understand your attitudes. If he had AIDS, would that make him unfit for officez? A judge asked me recently over a traffic violation, so you think I should let every PTSD veteran from the Middle East get a lower fine (yes), so do you think I should let someone whose leg had just been blown off get a lower fine? Yes, yes, yes.I am living in a different universe.

[sebastacat]

What bugs me (a lot) is the double standard by which Efren is being judged. If this were a county employee who had exhibited this type of conduct, they would have been summarily dismissed, in the same manner in which Efren himself dismissed Cathy Neville for her misconduct.

But now that Efren has displayed similar reprehensible conduct, he is claiming that he is an alcoholic and that he should be given another shot at the race.

Question: Would a rank-and-file county employee be given "another shot at the race" if he or she engaged in this type of behavior and claimed alcoholism as an excuse? Not only do I seriously doubt it, I don't even think the matter would merit any further discussion or consideration.

Unfortunately, I see some striking similarities between Efren's conduct and Ms. Neville's conduct:
Both engaged in "conduct unbecoming" to the County of Sonoma -- and both ran away.

[Dixon]

Perhaps it was drugs rather than alcohol?

Not to get too tangential, but I urge you (and everyone) to get out of the habit of thinking/talking as if alcohol isn't a drug. That denial/distortion underpins the phony, oppressive "war on drugs", and also allows a lot of people to destroy their lives with alcohol because they think it's just dandy to use because it's "not a drug". It is, in fact, more addictive and more poisonous than most or all of the illegal drugs, and causes more social problems than all of them combined. The only drug that does more damage is tobacco.

[Shepherd]

I echo what Alexandra says below. In my first Wacco post supporting Efren to do the right thing and resign, I explained that my main reason was his failure after many weeks of being called by parents in the apple orchard to vineyard conversion to even talk with them. Whether it was because of his alcoholism, his time in Sacramento, or contributions from the wine industry, or some combination, I do not know. What is clear is that he was not doing the work he was elected to do--represent his constituency.

His ambition to rise in the political world does seem to have impacted his work as 5th Distinct Supervisor, from which he is still absent, even though he attended part of a meeting. I wish him well in his recovery, and wish he would stop damaging the 5th District, its children, families, and others while he tries to salvage his political career. Nearly a thousand people signed the petition that Alexandra speaks of below. We are not happy with his job performance.

Regarding Efren's comment that his problems haven't affected his work- that is certainly open to question. I was one of the many parents that called his office, respectfully requesting a meeting regarding the proposed Vineyard Conversion adjacent to five schools on Watertrough. The petition that we forwarded to the Supervisor was signed by literally hundreds of his constituents. All of the parents that called were told that the Supervisor was booked around the clock for many months into the future and didn't have even a 10 minute window to meet with us. It seems extremely difficult to believe that given the severity of his situation-that he has admitted to- that this did not play a part in his day to day management of his responsibilities.

[Shepherd]

Today's PD editorial is the perspective of their editors, as opposed to the news coverage by the PD reporters, on the Efren Carrillo situation. It is worth reading, in my opinion.

[See it here. - Barry]

[dominus]

There are different degrees of abusing alcohol. This could be the case with Efren Carrillo but for some reason, I don't think so. This is because there are alcoholics that can knock back drink after drink and still don't remove their clothes and try to get into someone's bedroom in the middle of the night. It's possible Efren has a drinking problem and it's also possible he might be a sex addict. If he is the latter, than I can understand the desire to keep it private because the truth of any real addiction is excruciating. Also, most alchies know their alcoholism is socially more sanctioned. In fact, alchies laugh over the fact that it's sometimes considered to be chi-chi. It also can be explained away much more easily than being a sexual addict or even worse, a sexual predator. How exactly could Efren explain the fact that he has predator instincts and hold on to his job? I doubt he'd be able to. Or even say, "I'm Efren Carrillo and I can take whatever I want, any time." Well, that wouldn't go over so well either.