Does offering tax cuts to the rich create jobs?

[zenekar]

S2T and cohorts,

This should probably be in "The Top 1%" thread but since we're on the subject here...

It is tiring to hear people regurgitating right-wing wrong-headed statements protecting the wealthy, esp. the top 1% that had acquired its wealth by theft! Yes, THEFT -- first by stealing land of the indigenous peoples (in all of the Americas, Middle East, Africa, Asia...), moving people off their land and creating plantations, mining for minerals and fossil fuel, to profit the greedy thieves. Enslaving and using indentured humans to do the labor.

Throughout the history of this nation, people have been exploited in order to create wealth for the capitalist elite. If a business does not provide a living wage -- a wage based on the real cost of living -- then it is stealing from its employees, making huge profits while we, the people toil to get by.

From the Living Wage Coalition of Sonoma County:
A "living wage" is a self-sufficiency wage which enables a family to pay for housing, medical care, transportation, child care, and food without relying on public or private assistance. The term "living wage" is used by advocates to point out that the federal and state minimum wage are not adequate to enable workers to become self-sufficient. A living or self-sufficiency wage for Sonoma County in 2008 was $14.90 an hour (including benefits) and an annual family income of $62,940 based upon calculations for a two-parent, two-child family with both parents working full-time.

In California the minimum wage is $8 hr., nowhere near a living wage. So, if a true living wage is around $15 hr., the corporation is stealing $7 per hour from each employee. The corporation makes huge profits, CEOs are rewarded with million$. Imagine how much theft is going on in the so called "third world" where US multinational corporations pay pennies on the dollar as wages. Do you really believe that corporations earned their profits fair and square?

I expect there will be all sorts of explanations and fabricated justifications for the greed of the wealthy. It's difficult to comprehend how even Tea Party working stiffs who have nothing in common with the wealthy elite, buy into the right-wing propaganda.

[Iolchan]

To Answer the Question: in a Word, No

Taxing the Rich - and the Multinational Corporations - would help to balance the Federal budget. But to really "fix the economy," Long term, and Systemic changes would have to be implemented. Driving the "Money-Changers Out of the Temple" - {which is what Franklin D. Roosevelt promised to do; but did not do} - would be a better Solution than merely taxing the Corporations and the Rich according to the rate they should be taxed... {As it is, Military-Industrial Corporations like Lockheed pay almost nothing in Federal taxes. They have clever accountants who know all of the loop-holes; of how to "write off" practically everything...}

This is a picture of the Fed's relationship with the Treasury Department. Instead of being a "sub-treasury" central bank of issue, it is actually above the Treasury in that it has been given the ultimate power and authority to "create" credit and issues of paper money out of thin air. "Federal Reserve Bank credit does not consist of funds that the Reserve authorities get somewhere to lend, but constitute funds that they are empowered to CREATE." (reference, "Federal Reserve System, Its Purposes and Functions," U.S. Government Publications, 1939 ed., p.85)

When the Federal Government needs money, it must turn to the Federal Reserve Bank, both for income-tax moneys, which are funneled from the I.R.S. through the Fed to the Treasury, and also for the creation of fresh debt, the annual deficit.

To get "money," the Treasury must print fresh U.S. Government Securities, on the presses of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. These are the same presses, the operating costs of which are paid by taxpayers, that the Fed utilizes to print fresh issues of Federal Reserve Notes. If the Treasury wants cash, the Fed will, in this manner, supply cash. The Fed pays the Treasury for the printing (paper and ink only), which is running about 3 cents a bill, whether it is a one-dollar bill or a thousand-dollar bill.

The Treasury must give the Fed a Million dollars in bonds or interest-bearing securities for every million dollars of cash or credit the Fed supplies the Treasury. This is the first unequal exchange. These U.S. Government Securities are interest-bearing Liabilities of the tax-paying American public. As long as these securities remain in the vaults of the Fed, however, they are, in theory, the property of the People. Taxpayers pay the interest that these bonds generate and this revenue pays for the work-a-day expenses of the Federal Reserve Banks. The surplus interest, in excess of the cost of running the Fed, is channeled back into the U.S. Treasury.

This is a picture of the relationship of the Fed to its member banks, and the masses. The masses are on the bottom, the banks are in the middle, and the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank is on top. Behind the Federal Reserve, is the bond-holding class.

The Federal Reserve System is the instrument and tool of the private banking industry. Banks are allowed, in effect, to create Fiat Money on the credit (faith) of the people and to also collect interest on this money from the government, and people of the United States. The euphemism applying to this privilege is "Fractional Reserve." Banks are enabled to lend this money at profit-making interest rates to their customers.

Not only do the banks create money out of thin air (e.g., when the reserve ratio is 8 to 1, $8 can be loaned out for every $1 dollar "on deposit"), but also since the system requires the selling of government bonds to back up "the Fractional Reserve" funds created, the U.S. Treasury is paying interest on the funds it allows the banks to create. This is a money-making machine. Meanwhile, out on the street, there is always a dearth of money, actually about only $1,000 per person (though most people rarely see that much) of actual cash (paper money and token coins) in the system. This translates into only $250 billion for 250 million Norte Americanos. [1993] This artificially created scarcity of cash money in the System generates the necessity for the enormous undertow of bank credit and public debt.

Currently, [again, 1993] the total "debt" {Public & Private} has risen to more than 14 trillion dollars. The ratio of the amount of cash money in the system to "credit" and debt dollars is less than 1 to 50. Less than 2% of the "money" in the system is in "cash." When people need money, they must put up collateral at the bank. This is real estate or other property or bonds, notes, or some other kind of financial instrument. There is no other way for the public to obtain money from the system (except in the case of government loans and the G.I. Bill), than by putting up collateral to borrow it from the banks.

In periods of credit expansion, people tend to feel optimistic or "bullish" about America and borrow heavily. When the credit is contracted (as it was in the Spring of 1929), loans are called in and people without enough cash in the system to pay all the loans (remember, there is only about $1,000 per capita) lose their collateral. The long-term effect of this has transformed the masses of the Norte Americanos into a nation of renters (serfs). The corollary to this reality is that the landlord-bankers, and their holding companies, have acquired liens on the titles to most of the land and the resources, not only of North America, but of much of the Third World as well. This has been accomplished by means of that marvelous instrument of "credit," the Norte Americano carnivorous debt-dollar, which, like Pac-Man, gobbles up everything in its path.

This is a picture of the Fed's relationship with the Federal Open Market Committee (the F.O.M.C.), the Fed's "window" upon Wall Street, the creation of which was part of the marvelous "Reform" package of that Father Christmas and friend of the people, Franklin D. Roosevelt. The F.O.M.C., in order to "regulate" the economy, buys and sells on the open market corporate and government bonds and securities. This is so it can create inflation when that is needed or deflation, should that be necessary. It creates "inflation" by buying corporate securities from both domestic and foreign corporations. It pays for the securities by issuing "new money," that is, money it has created out of thin air, as is its privilege.

The Fed operates on the principle that corporations need the money and that it eventually will find its way into the economy. Thus we find the New Deal was practicing "trickle-down" economics long before Reagan. In buying government bonds the commercial banks use the "Fractional Reserve" currency they are allowed to create. The Corporations which are favored with Federal Open Market Committee largesse, as a rule, have inter-locking directorates with the Commercial Banks, where they park their money.

These banks can then multiply their deposits by the factor determined by the current reserve ratio and purchase government bonds, speculate, or lend to customers. The Fed, meanwhile, when economic conditions dictate, pontificates solemnly that there is too much inflation and that they must put the brakes on the economy and institute a little deflation. The Fed, so the story goes, causes "deflation" by selling bonds and securities on the open market. The theory has it that the F.O.M.C. sells bonds, to take money out of the economy because "too much money" in the economy has caused "inflation," which in turn has caused prices to rise, and that's bad. That's the cover story.

When prices rise, it's generally not because of scarcity of commodities - or because the volume of money has made prices "dear." - It's usually because the cartels have simply jacked the prices up a notch. [This is no longer the case with regards to Oil.] Profit. The real reason the Fed sells bonds through the F.O.M.C. is because the business of the Fed is transfer wealth and energy (money rendered back in taxes is the tangible expression of labor and energy) from the People to the bond-holding class.

The term "bond-holding class" does not refer to the Ma & Pa owners of "U.S. Savings Bonds," but to the elite families who own the "preferred" stock in the Prime Banks, and utilize the ability of these banks to create "Fractional Reserve" dollars out of thin air. These Families receive Quarterly dividends from this bank-stock. The Fed sells U.S. government securities (the notes that were issued against the money in square 1) in order to raise money for the poor government, which is continually running into deficit, spending beyond its allocated budget.

These securities, as long as they remained in the vaults of the Fed, were the property of the People. But the Fed is continually moving these bonds, through bond auctions at the FOMC, into the "public," (that is, the banking) sector. You will remember that the prime banks are able to multiply their deposits to create new money. These prime banks and foreign, and domestic brokerage houses, queue up to buy government bonds when they are offered for sale.

This is merely one more way our hungry government obtains money. The "new" bank- created money is transferred from the "reserve accounts" of the prime banks at the Fed and is credited to the Government. The prime banks, however, have acquired interest-bearing bonds.

This is a picture of how "America's 300 families" and the foreign stockholders of the "Class A" stock of the international prime banks collect interest off the National Debt.

The Commons, the People, must queue up and pay tithes to the government for the privilege of living in America and being able (forced) to use Federal Reserve notes and for the folly of being poor and not owning the preferred stock in the right banks, so they would be able to afford to live off of borrowed money (which is a liability and hence not taxable), the way the rich do.

The fact that debt payment is the Number One priority of the budget shows graphically that this system has been engineered to make the many work for the few. Payment to the prime banks holding the bonds against the National Debt is the first order of priority once the Fed receives the checks and drafts from tax-payers. {=OR= at the hereditary, annual Debt-Crisis.}

The I.R.S. is really nothing more than the collection agency for the Fed. The prime banks, after receiving from the Federal Reserve Bank their Interest Payment on the Bonds they are holding, then issue Quarterly dividends to the holders of their "preferred stock" from that part of their portfolio that is holding tax-exempt government bonds. Only after the interest on the "debt" has been paid does the Fed channel tax moneys to the General Fund of the U.S. Treasury.

This whole system is upside-down. The Treasury should be above the Central Bank, and the Treasury should be the original source of the creation of all new money and credit. The Central Bank should be subservient to and not the master of the people. The Treasury could then become what it was intended to be, the storehouse of the common (or collective) wealth of the nation. This is the idea of the Co-operative Common-wealth. This is what is meant to "nationalize credit."

In reality, Fiat Money need not be backed by bonds and is, in the final analysis, already backed by the credit-worthiness and "faith" of the American people collectively, whether or not the procedure of creating federal debt is engaged in. Our Federal debt and deficit is largely the result of the subsidization of private banking interests by the unwitting American people, through their elected representatives, who have sold out to the interests of the private banking industry.

Sources:

Adams, Silas Walter, "The Legalized Crime of Banking and a Constitutional Remedy,"
Boston, Meador, 1958.

See also, Silas Walter Adams' Commentary on:

"The Federal Reserve System, Its Purposes and Functions," United States of America,
Washington, D.C., 1939, Ed.

Morse, EIsa Peters, "The Key to World Peace and Plenty," San Francisco, Summit
Press, 1960.

Popp, Dr. Edward E. , "The Great Cookie Jar, Taking the Mystery Out of the Money
System," Wisconsin Education Fund, P.O. Box 321, Port Washington, Wisconsin,
53074.

Voorhis, Jerry,"Beyond Victory," Farrar-Straus, New York, 1944.

My thanks also to Wilson Ogg of Keith Street in Berkeley - retired corporate lawyer, genius; the son of the campaign manager of Jerry Voorhis - and the only person I know who has ever taken upon himself to read and intellectually comprehend the entire six-hundred, plus pages of the Federal Reserve Act as it is, together with all of its amendments, ancillary addendums and nullifications, etc... and who patiently explained to me, and made plain and simple the more arcane aspects of this elaborate shell game.

- Mark Walter Evans -
www.PaleoProgressives.org
- Published in the North Coast Xpress, 1993 -

[Hotspring 44]

A "super rich" person that thinks raising tax on the wealthy IS the right thing to do to "share" the "suffering":
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...292#post139292

Thanks Barry.

[Speak2Truth]

Since we were talking about Australia - bear in mind the Socialists there are not devoted to destroying the country as they are here. It's an important distinction. The USA has been targeted for take-down for a long time and now they have the power to do it by wrecking our economy, crushing US energy production while inviting foreign nations to come harvest our resources ("we want to be their biggest customer" - Obama), inviting a flood of foreign invaders into the US to further drain the economy, disrupt the employment market and establish a heavily armed fighting force hostile to the US within its own borders.

But what about Australia's actual handling of its economy?

"From the early 1980s until 2007, successive Labor and Liberal governments deregulated financial and labor markets and reduced trade barriers. Australia has enjoyed economic expansion for almost two decades and has come through the recession relatively unscathed, maintaining good levels of business investment and employment. However, recent stimulus spending by the Labor government has led the country into deficit in a single year."

See, to them "Liberal" means de-regulation and establishing more freedom from government meddling. It used to mean that here as well until Leftists started cloaking themselves with that label. It's important to NOT confuse other country's political terms and groups with our own. "Liberal", "Conservative", "Labor" - they mean different things abroad.

It is well known that deficit spending will destroy a nation's economy. That's why Leftists here are pushing us so hard down that slope. It's a goal of theirs.

Australia's government encourages mining and selling resources. Our Leftists actively work to prevent that, making it as expensive, burdensome or prohibitive as possible. They're working to "de-develop" the United States, in the words of Obama's science czar, John Holdren. As the owner of the Democrat Party put it, the "managed decline" of the US dollar is "desirable".

Are those people whose goal is to help the USA become more free and prosperous? No.

That's why the USA is going to hell. It's intentional.

The Communist Party USA has never wanted to make America the strongest, freest and most prosperous nation - Communists have wanted to take down the USA for a very long time. They couldn't do it militarily so they're doing it from the inside. That's why they worked so very hard to get Obama and his crew into power.

COMPARISON:

AUSTRALIA: "In the most recent year, total government expenditures, including consumption and transfer payments, held steady at 34.3 percent of GDP. A large stimulus package of transfers to households and increased infrastructure spending shifted the fiscal balance into deficit. Although budget plans call for further government spending on infrastructure, the deficit should narrow on account of strong revenues led by the mining sector."

USA: "However, the national government’s role in the economy has expanded sharply in the past two years, and the federal budget deficit is extremely large, with gross public debt approaching 100 percent of GDP. "

And the "liberals" here are trying to INCREASE that unpayable debt by creating new programs to spend more and more (high speed train? Obamacare? Cash for Clunkers? d)

"Spending increases totaled well over $1 trillion in 2009 alone, an increase of more than 20 percent over 2008. Stimulus spending has hurt the fiscal balance and placed federal debt on an unsustainable trajectory. Gross government debt exceeded 90 percent of GDP in 2010."


--------------------------------------------------

Warren Buffet is absolutely free to give his cash to the US Government if he actually believes what he is saying. Know a man's intentions by his actions, not by his words.

It would be wise to look at Buffet's investment portfolio and see how he has strategically positioned himself to gain by government programs forcing our tax dollars into particular directions. You know, like Al Gore did by establishing Generation Investment Management Corporation (in England, not here) then stomping around hollering that Government must force our cash into "green" investments to "save the planet".

These guys don't get super-rich by giving their cash away - they get super-rich by getting other people's cash stuffed into their investments.

It is a power forbidden to the US Government but it's being done anyway.

[podfish]

Since we were talking about Australia - bear in mind the Socialists there are not devoted to destroying the country as they are here.

oh my.
sorry, it's hard to go cold-turkey. But i'm rising to the bait less often. I bet there's gonna be better bait ahead, though.

[Speak2Truth]

oh my.
sorry, it's hard to go cold-turkey. But i'm rising to the bait less often. I bet there's gonna be better bait ahead, though.

Question: What nation has been the greatest obstacle to global Socialist/Communist domination?

There is a reason they have told us outright they will "tear it all down, man!", that they will "de-develop" the United States, that they will murder 25 million Americans who will probably not accept the fundamental transformation to a Communist Dictatorship (Weather Underground - member of which was William Ayers who launched Obama's political career).

FBI on Weather Underground.
Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers' Organization
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlN2t0oERHk

The USA has been a target for a long time.

“If the missiles had remained, we would have fired them against the very heart of the U.S., including New York. The victory of socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims.” (Che Guevara, November 1962.)

Now, as Van Jones (Communist appointed as Green Czar by Obama) put it, they have dropped the radical pose (violence, bombings, direct confrontation) and put on suits, ties and a veneer of presentability to achieve the radical ends.

If you attend some of their meetings, you'll hear the most amazing things.

The political Left in the USA is certainly not interested in restoring financial and personal Liberty, prosperity and in making the USA a prosperous, self-sufficient nation. Their goal is completely the opposite.

[podfish]

If you attend some of their meetings, you'll hear the most amazing things.

Aesop had a story that comes to mind, where the mice held a meeting where they addressed the question of how best to deal with their oppressors.
and you may have noticed that we don't really need to leave our computers to hear the most amazing things.

["Mad" Miles]

So S2T, according to you, and your "sources", Australian Socialists want to help Australia, but American (U.S. and apparently Latin American) Socialists want to destroy America and take it over and institute Communism.

And Socialism is the same as Communism, and everyone on The Left is either a willing or duped Communist.

(Bill Ayers launched The Obaminators political career, uh huh. And I thought it was graduating from Harvard Law School. Oh, and some people I know are firmly convinced that he and his parents and grandmother were all CIA assets, but let's not get too sidetracked.)

Distinctions such as Marxist-Leninist, Spartacist, Stalinist, Trotskyist, Maoist, Fidelista, Guevarista, Neo-Marxist, Heterodox Marxist, Post-Marxist, Democratic Socialist, Social Democrat, Anarchist, Anarcho-Syndicalist, Anarcho-Libertarian, Anarcho-Socialist, Liberal, Progressive Liberal, Progressive, and so on (believe me, there are plenty more Leftist ideological positions where those came from, I just covered the broad strokes off the top of my head) are completely irrelevant and it's all a "show" to cover up the Evil Communist conspiracy to destroy the Good Old U.S. of A.!!!

All of the infighting, including mass murder, on the Left over the last hundred to a hundred and fifty or so years, that's just an elaborate ruse to cover up the centralized, determined plot that has been in place this entire time, that you and your "fact" describers have uncovered and are exposing to the light of world opinion.

Oops, I guess you're on to us!

Forget that if you put three Leftists in a room, first they'll declare a United Front, but soon after one will split over the incorrect analysis of the other two, that person will be denounced as a Deviationist Wrecker and Police Agent, and any and all available weapons will be used to eliminate the threat to the great cause, the liberation of the working class from the chains of capitalist bondage.

As soon as the third person is dealt with, the remaining two will start to fight over who is creating a Cult of Personality around themselves, and who is the humble servant to the needs of their class. The insults, Bourgeois and Petit-Bourgeois, will be liberally bandied about.

And don't worry, if they're also Philosophical Pacifists (on top of being hardcore Orthodox Marxists) maybe no one will actually be tortured and murdered, but character assassination will still be an available and "liberally" used option.

The most glaring problem I see with your take in this matter, is that it ignores the Global Communist Plot to Take Over The World!!

How is it the Australian Left isn't in on the plan? Isn't that the big threat, and always has been since 1917? (Before that it was the Anarchists, but let's not quibble. Oh yeah, not to forget the March of the Internationals.)

You're completely wrong by the way, you're ignoring the real threat, like all the other dupes.

What about the Aztec-Mayan, Bilderberg, Illuminati, Davos, Bohemian Club, Satanist, New World Order, Alien Saurian Overlords, Communist/Socialist/Anarchist, CIA/Mossad/MI6, Bank of England, Child Molesting, Caliphate/Shari'ah, Cabal that WILL DESTROY US ALL!!!!

Unless and until a Laissez Faire Free Capitalist Market under Christian Dominion is (re)established over all the Earth and Sweetness and Light under the rule of Jesus is the Law of the Land.

Jeeze, get your facts straight!!???

[Hotspring 44]

Since we were talking about Australia - bear in mind the Socialists there are not devoted to destroying the country as they are here.

I think podfish is correct about "bait". To clarify; I think your above statement as it is in it's context could be in the category of "Red bating". I am not trying to pick a fight, I am noting the tone of some statements you make seem to me to have.
I probably won't go too deep with the pointing that out beyond this post, it would be too much of nit picking and a waste of our time.

It's an important distinction. The USA has been targeted for take-down for a long time and now they have the power to do it by wrecking our economy, crushing US energy production while inviting foreign nations to come harvest our resources ("we want to be their biggest customer" - Obama), inviting a flood of foreign invaders into the US to further drain the economy, disrupt the employment market and establish a heavily armed fighting force hostile to the US within its own borders.

Yeah, the "privatized" multinational banking and other large scaled multinational cooperate "interest" (I mean "wealth") "holders".
.

It is well known that deficit spending will destroy a nation's economy. That's why Leftists here are pushing us so hard down that slope. It's a goal of theirs.

Yeah, just omit the deregulation of the banking... (the repeal of the Glass Stegal act of 1932); IE: which allowed the Federal Reserve to regulate interest rates in savings accounts, were repealed by the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980. Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act.
...and I can see how someone could blame the so-called "Leftists"... ...Add the mass amnesia and/or weapons of mass distraction and media hypnotism into the equation and there you have it!... ...IT IS ALL THE "LEFTIST" "COMMUNIST'S" FAULT!... ...(it was a "Communist plot")... ...Oh, I almost forgot; Al Gore! LOL!

Australia's government encourages mining and selling resources.

Australia has a finite agricultural area and population density that are in mostly the same geographical area near the fringes of the coastline.
Mineral, N/G, and coal mining are, in general, less intrusive to the present population in Australia then it is in the USA.

Most soil on the continent of Australia is extremely harsh and the arid climate makes it mostly impossible to live and farm on; so mining is a logical way for an industrialized, developed country such as Australia to do without too much impact on the population; Note: Australia Population density per Sq. Mi. 7.55
United States of America Population density per Sq. Mi. 83.38


I DON'T ever want to have any off-shore oil wells anywhere near Point Arena or anywhere else off the Northern California, Oregon or Washington coasts.
Would you like a deep N/G gas drill rig and consequent well; how about 40 or 50 of those wells in a neighborhood near you within 1 mile of Sebastepol in Sonoma County?... ...How about that PG&E Nuclear Power Plant that almost got put in Bodega Bay?... ...Would it be OK with you if deregulation causes a nuclear power reactor to be put in Bodega bay, or, how about 4 or 10 of them for that matter?... ...Deregulation is the first step backwards into that pre-Fukishima / cold war kind of attitude; (only in this case it would be more a "war" over the, who can supply the so-called energy "needs"; us or "them" in the guise of a so-called international "free market"competition scenario...
(Fukushima Reactor Damage Picked Up in California Winds
Tiny amounts of radioactive sulfur from Japan in San Diego
Fukushima Reactor Damage Picked Up in California Winds

Radiation Levels Strong Enough To Kill A Man In Seconds Detected At Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant)...
...The word "deregulation" is another buzz-word that (these days) is used to convey misinformation, and is another tool in the tool box of the cooperate talking "ditto-heads" used by the media, and is one of the "weapons of mass distraction" that uses economic fear mongering to scare the 'sheeple' into the economic 'slaughterhouse' so to speak.

A true government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" IS supposed to REGULATE to protect and maintain the people's welfare; {BTW}; (n.1.a. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being. b. Prosperity.) is what I mean in this context when I say "welfare".

...Our Leftists actively work to prevent that, making it as expensive, burdensome or prohibitive as possible. They're working to "de-develop" the United States, in the words of Obama's science czar, John Holdren. As the owner of the Democrat Party put it, the "managed decline" of the US dollar is "desirable".

Knowing that the dollar is going to "decline", wouldn't it be preferable than an uncontrollable decline?

Are those people whose goal is to help the USA become more free and prosperous? No.

That's why the USA is going to hell. It's intentional.

Yes it most likely is "going to hell" however, the Right Wingers have their hands in the bloodied massacre as much anyone that you have blamed.
It is like you have a one-track unbalanced way of blaming everything on the "left" and "liberal" to the point that your vision is blurred by the spinning of your own web of "truth".

The Communist Party USA has never wanted to make America the strongest, freest and most prosperous nation - Communists have wanted to take down the USA for a very long time. They couldn't do it militarily so they're doing it from the inside. That's why they worked so very hard to get Obama and his crew into power.

That's another score on the Red bating on just this one post.

COMPARISON:

AUSTRALIA: "In the most recent year, total government expenditures, including consumption and transfer payments, held steady at 34.3 percent of GDP. A large stimulus package of transfers to households and increased infrastructure spending shifted the fiscal balance into deficit. Although budget plans call for further government spending on infrastructure, the deficit should narrow on account of strong revenues led by the mining sector."

USA: "However, the national government’s role in the economy has expanded sharply in the past two years, and the federal budget deficit is extremely large, with gross public debt approaching 100 percent of GDP. "

And the "liberals" here are trying to INCREASE that unpayable debt by creating new programs to spend more and more (high speed train? Obamacare? Cash for Clunkers? d)

1- High speed train when the Highway system is in such lack of maintained shape in my view is rather unproductive.

2- I think the Highways and bridges etc should have been maintained to standard first; which would have created more good paying "jobs", but, the republicans would never have allowed enough money to successfully accomplish that because they are fixated on ruining Obama enough to "win" the election in 2012 based on his so-called "failure" that they are actually manufacturing so the chances of getting a Republican in the White House in 2012 are increased.

3- The "Cash For Clunkers" was Senator Dianne Feinstein's pet project; I remember that because I wrote to her to appose it.

4- The so-called "Obamacare" was a sellout.
It should have been either left alone for the time being or it should have been to boot the for profit public health care insurance companies completely out and then use the same money to directly pay for the new data processing jobs and the doctors directly in a more affordable "universal Health Care" system; as I have written extensively on this board in the past I won't get into the details of that here.

"Spending increases totaled well over $1 trillion in 2009 alone, an increase of more than 20 percent over 2008. Stimulus spending has hurt the fiscal balance and placed federal debt on an unsustainable trajectory. Gross government debt exceeded 90 percent of GDP in 2010."

1- Instead of letting the banksters off the hook, they should have let them sink... ...I have always said that all along.

2- The "stimulus" money should have gone for actual production (both for domestic use and export), energy independence (with some tax incentives for large and/or efficient sustainable energy production and supporting infrastructure to get off or at least minimize our foreign energy dependance)... ...(but the coal industry states would of course have monkey-wrenched that in a heartbeat even if it would be in the nation's best interest); No such thing as "clean coal".

--------------------------------------------------

Warren Buffet is absolutely free to give his cash to the US Government if he actually believes what he is saying. Know a man's intentions by his actions, not by his words.

I agree with the quote: "Know a man's intentions by his actions, not by his words." That being said, sometimes words are part of the actions.
I am sure that if the government were to send him a tax bill (or form to fill) that he would (fill the form) and pay if it so required it.
Why should anyone pay if no one else in the same place has to, that seems ridiculous and baiting to suggest that in those terms.

It would be wise to look at Buffet's investment portfolio and see how he has strategically positioned himself to gain by government programs forcing our tax dollars into particular directions. You know, like Al Gore did by establishing Generation Investment Management Corporation (in England, not here) then stomping around hollering that Government must force our cash into "green" investments to "save the planet".

Regardless of what Buffet's investments are he has said what he said and I am sure that there are others that had invested in the real estate crash; like for example: the Goldman Sachs insider trading and all such "legalized outright fraud" come around and go around from all directions which is all speculative anyway. What I mean is that they all do it and until there are new and effective regulations in place; STFW Buffet's investments are?

These guys don't get super-rich by giving their cash away - they get super-rich by getting other people's cash stuffed into their investments.

So why the hell should they not pay more taxes help to fuel any recovery like the rest of us do?
After all, I bet their investments are heavily dependent on the dollar any way so it would be in their best interest to not let the country go down wouldn't it?
Or do you believe that some are investing in ways that will destroy the dollar because they have some sort of other currency or power?... ...Al Gore maybe?

It is a power forbidden to the US Government but it's being done anyway.

I think you are referring to the fractional lending scheme of the Federal Reserve here but i am not sure.... ...If so then maybe there is a technicality here that we can agree on.

[Braggi]

I'm so done with this thread.

You can't teach a true believer. Facts are not important to a person who is sold on Holy Writ.

Bye,

-Jeff

[Hotspring 44]

I'm so done with this thread.

You can't teach a true believer. Facts are not important to a person who is sold on Holy Writ.

Bye,

-Jeff

It has become rather redundant.:puterstare:

[Braggi]

It has become rather redundant.:puterstare:

I should have added, "... Holy Writ, no matter how absurd, no matter how lacking of fact, no matter how divorced from history, no matter how divergent from reality."

-Jeff

[Speak2Truth]

All of the infighting, including mass murder, on the Left over the last hundred to a hundred and fifty or so years, that's just an elaborate ruse to cover up the centralized, determined plot that has been in place this entire time, that you and your "fact" describers have uncovered and are exposing to the light of world opinion.

Not really. Sure, there's infighting, yet they do work against their common enemy. That was spelled out about 150 years ago...

"If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without a debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. The brains and the wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed, or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." - London Times

They certainly are working to eliminate this big "threat". Driving us into unrecoverable debt is a terrific strategy.

The most glaring problem I see with your take in this matter, is that it ignores the Global Communist Plot to Take Over The World!!

No, this is right in front of our noses. The Communists have changed colors, like chameleons, but they're not hiding.

Global Green is the American Arm of Green Cross International (GCI), which was created by President Mikhail S. Gorbachev
https://www.globalgreen.org/about/

They're quite busy working with leftists in various nations' governments to bring all world economies under their control in the name of "Carbon Management" to "save the Earth". Clever scheme.

I already posted some of the links showing Obama's prior work to do his part, setting up various institutions in the US that will serve that organization. He's been involved in this for many years. The Communist Party USA worked hard to get him elected for a reason.

Let's not forget the Communists he appointed to control our nation.

Cass Sunstein wants to spread America's wealth
Echoes Van Jones on using 'environmental justice' to redistribute money
https://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAG...&pageId=110031

Van Jones also worked with top Weather Underground people such as Jeff Jones. You know, those folks who were happily considering murdering at least 25 million Americans who would not accept the "fundamental transformation" to a Communist Dictatorship.

That number was estimated a few decades back. What do you think their estimate is today?

[Speak2Truth]

I think podfish is correct about "bait". To clarify; I think your above statement as it is in it's context could be in the category of "Red bating".

Oops, I guess you're on to us!

But seriously. I'm not trying to bait or antagonize, I'm just trying to be factual.

1) Mikhail Gorbachev - Communist mastermind? Yeah.

2) Mikhail Gorbachev - created Green Cross International and directs it? Yeah.

3) Green Cross International - managing the global "Go Green" movement? Yeah.

4) "Go Green" - the slogan bandied about with pride and enthusiasm and "if you aren't on board with Green you're a bad person!" like Red used to be? Yeah.

5) Green - boils down to seizing and redistributing wealth? Yeah.

So why the hell should they not pay more taxes help to fuel any recovery like the rest of us do?

They DO pay taxes. The "rich" pay disproportionately high amounts of taxes. Meanwhile, 50% (and growing) pay no taxes and more and more are finding ways to become dependent on tax money.

Government spending does not fuel economic recovery because it is merely money seized from some people, devalued by expenses in the bureaucracy then hurled inefficiently at busy-work or at propping up folks who are favored by The Party.

As Greece learned, for every job "created" by government stimulus, about 2.2 jobs were lost in the private sector. We're experiencing the same.

Government is burying us in unrecoverable debt to other nations while shoveling our cash off to other nations that cannot be bribed to like us. Government is actively killing productivity in the US so we can become the "best customers" to other nations - Barack Obama. Government seizing control over our assets and our businesses is the problem, not the solution.

And it's illegal.

[Iolchan]

If the Blind...

"Mad" Miles wrote:

Barry,

I find the rest of your reply to S2T cogent, but the part I quoted above is demonstrably false. Deregulation started under Reagan, then Bush I, but took great strides forward under Clinton. In fact, the elimination of the restrictions separating banks from financial brokerage houses, was pushed forward and passed by the Clinton administration.

Many of the regulations that might have prevented the collapse in mortgage finance markets, by limiting credit default swaps bundling and the derivatives shenanigans were removed under Clinton.

Both dominant parties are deeply in bed with finance capital interests. As recent events have clearly shown once again.

Just look at who funded McCain vs. Obama's '08 campaigns. Finance capital, based on Wall Street and other global markets, along with the money markets, backed Obama over McCain. Oil money, what remains of U.S. heavy manufacturing, goods and services moguls like the Koch Bros. backed the Republican.

But financiers based in intangibles (money markets, brokerages, etc.) were big supporters of The Obaminator. Just look at his appointments, Bernanke and Geithner, who did they work for before they started working for President Obama, i.e. "us"? The Fed. Now, I don't share the view from the fringes that the FED is the source of all financial problems, but you don't get to run the Fed without being on the good side of financial capital.

I agree with everything up to the last sentence, to which I just gotta say:

Hey, Buddy! Just what "fringes" are you referring to?
- And while you're at it, can you spare a paraDigm?

Iolchan wrote:

...It is "We the People" who must {because of the Federal Reserve System,} do the borrowing - from the FED. To let you in on a little secret; which is no Secret at all: the "National Debt" is the Property and Corporate Asset of the Stockholders of the Federal Reserve Bank.

Fact: The National Debt was only One {1} Billion Dollars in 1913; the Year that the legislation that "Created" the FED was passed.

Fact: By 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt came in, it stood at about Eighteen {18} Billion.

Fact: By 1940, when World War Two had begun, it had reached Fifty {50} Billion Dollars.

Fact: By the time World War Two was over, and F.D.R. died, the National Debt had risen to Two Hundred and Fifty {250} Billion dollars.

Question: Do you begin to see a pattern here? The growth of the National Debt from 1933- to 1945, was all done by "Keynesian Deficit Spending." That is what made all this "growth" possible: the phenomenon that economists refer to as "the float." Regarding John Meynard Keynes, himself - a little factoid: He was on the Board of Directors of the Bank of England. So his "Cover" as a so-called "Socialist Economist" was pretty much hogwash.

Open Forum on the Question: What part of this pattern do you Not See?

“There is None so blind as those that will not see.”
Matthew Henry (1662-1714)


Need I say it Again?
Well, Alright :

To let you in on a little secret;
which is no Secret at all:
the "National Debt"
is the Property
and Corporate Asset
of the Stockholders
of the
Federal Reserve Bank.

The Owners of the Prime Banks
Collect Interest off of this "Debt."
These are the Men
Who sit in Easy chairs
in the closed-to-the-public
Elitist hang-out
Beneath the big Pyramid,
- that covers the Top floors -
O' Bankers' Trust,
@16 Wall Street.



Sincerely,

Mark Walter Evans

[Iolchan]

Why We Need Amendment XVIII, Now

The United States Congress needs to do the right thing. Obviously, at this time, with an eighty-two percent disapproval rating in the eyes of the American People, they can not sink much lower in the esteem of most Americans.

“Conservative” Republicans in the U.S. Congress and Senate should remember the heritage and the Monetary Policy of the great man who was the very first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln. He was the father of the Greenback Dollar - a form of non-interest-bearing Currency.

“Progressives” in the Democrat Party, also, would do well to remember and examine the career and the monetary reform legislation of Jerry Voorhis - who had an ally in the Senate, the Republican, Robert LaFollette, Jr. His father, “Fighting Bob” LaFollette, ran for President in 1924 as the candidate of the Progressive Party, on a Platform that called for the nationalization of the Federal Reserve Bank.

Bob LaFollette was supported, in his 1924 Presidential campaign, by Eugene Debs, and the American Socialist Party. And also, by Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr., another excommunicated former Republican, and his party = the Farmer-Labor Party of Minnesota. The three Party Platforms of these Parties in 1924, all called for the Nationalization of the Federal Reserve Bank.

Jerry Voorhis, and Robert LaFollette, Jr., were both targeted and driven from office in 1946, by the pro-active wiles of Big Money. {read “Wall Street”.} They fully intended, in the immediate aftermath of World War Two, to organize and implement a bi-Partisan push, in both the House and the Senate, to dismantle the Federal Reserve Bank, and to create a bona fide Common-Wealth Sub-Treasury Central Bank-of-Issue.

Amendment XVIII does several things that are timely:

Amendment XXVIII Re-Asserts the Constitutional principle that Congress – the Representatives of We, the People - should control, and be the ultimate Arbiter over the Creation of Money and Credit.

Amendment XXVIII Nationalizes the private ownership of the Federal Reserve Bank, and subsumes the creative functions of that institution into the Treasury Department, creating a Sub-Treasury “Common-Wealth Central Bank” - to be established and dedicated to the Interest of the People – not Wall Street.

Amendment XXVIII Authorizes Congress to recall the National Debt, and transforms, by Congressional Fiat, the fraudulent “National Debt,” held by prime banks in the form of U.S. Treasury Securities, into an actual National Blessing {Alexander Hamilton’s words} in the form of trillions of Dollars of “Common-Wealth” to be deposited in the New “Common-Wealth, Central Bank” by recalling, and transforming the U.S. Treasury Bonds, by Fiat, into a new, non-interest-bearing, dollar-denominated credit instrument: the “National Credit-Receipt.”

Amendment XXVIII cleans out the Augean Stables of the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve Bank, and opens the Books, Documents, and Records of those Institutions to the most minute Congressional and Public Scrutiny. Amendment XXVIII also asserts “…there shall be no further issues of Treasury Securities, or Bonds.”

Amendment XXVIII opens, once again, the Treasury Mints to the free coinage of silver and gold. The new Commodity Money coins shall be stamped with their weight and fineness, not denominated in terms of “Dollars.”

Borrowing a page from the Articles of Confederation, Amendment XXVIII grants, once again, to the State Governments the power to create Credit within their own jurisdictions. This will be of great help to the infrastructure and to Health, Education, and Welfare within the fifty states. And it will serve the Interest of the People; though it displease the banking elites and their minions.

Since State governments are empowered to grant charters to State Banks, which enable these Banks to create Credit, States also should be empowered to Create, with the stroke of a pen, sufficient Credit within their own jurisdictions to assist Human needs.

If Amendment XXVIII intended only to restore a lawful system of Constitutional money - with Fiat Treasury Bills replacing the interest-bearing debts known as "Federal Reserve Notes," then indeed, no Amendment would be necessary. The Constitution already provides Congress with the power to issue such notes as interest-free money. Also, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Julliard v. Greenman (110 U.S. 421, 448) in 1884 ruled that: “Congress is authorized to establish a national currency, either in coins or in paper, and to make that currency lawful money for all purposes, as regards the national government or private individuals.” {A broad interpretation of Article I, Section 8, clause 5, of the Constitution.}

An elegant solution, Amendment XVIII, also Nationalizes the National Debt; and transforms the Treasury Department into a Treasury of Common-wealth; and fills the coffers of this new institution with several trillions of "dollars" of Credit & establishes a new specie of credit-instrument, a dollar-denominated "National Credit Receipt" to be just as serviceable as “Dollars” on the international market.

Amendment XVIII makes a distinction between the United States Savings Bonds that were purchased by Ma and Pa bond investors and those U.S. Treasury Securities that were purchased by the Prime Banks at Bond Auctions held under the auspices of the Federal Open Market Committee, the Federal Reserve’s Window on Wall Street. Commercial Banks have always utilized the “multiplier” of the fractional reserve system to purchase U.S. Treasury Securities at cents on the dollar.

In recognition of this Fact - that such transactions are, and have always been, from the beginning, Fraudulent - AMENDMENT XVIII renders the outstanding “Debt” that is “owed” to the Prime Banks of this – and every other Nation - at a mere 7% [Seven per cent] of the face value of such Fraudulent, Banker-secured paper “Debt.”

This reduction of the Debt to a Sum that is payable in Credit, on the Books of the new Sub-Treasury Central Bank-of-Issue, the “Common-Wealth Central Bank” is, in Reality, exceedingly fair and Just, in recognition of the Fraud that has been committed by the Community of International bankers, in foisting the former system upon the unsuspecting Public.

Thus, AMENDMENT XVIII allows a large amount of Credit to be created on the books of the new Common-Wealth Central Bank - as compensation for that portion of the investment of the Prime Banks in the National Debt, that might actually be deemed "legitimate.” This gives the Prime Banks some Credit – but no Stock - in the new Institution.

“In accordance with the provisions of this Article, all banks and financial institutions in America shall receive new charters from the Treasury. The U.S. Treasury and the Sub- Treasury Common-Wealth Central Bank {and the State Treasuries} shall henceforth have the unique and sole power within the nation to create Credit.”

The aggregate effect of all of these Reforms is to establish an Institution that benefits All Americans - and not just the small elite who were fortunate to inherit the right stock in certain Wall Street Money Market Banks.

Amendment XXVIII, by dissolving the Federal Reserve Bank into the Treasury Department, subsumes the creative, credit-creation function of the Federal Reserve into the new Sub-Treasury "Common-Wealth Central Bank." Henceforth, the Treasury shall not be compelled to issue interest-bearing Treasury Securities to "back" all of the paper "dollars" that the Federal Reserve currently issues. Instead, the Treasury shall issue non- interest-bearing Treasury notes, as Abraham Lincoln and John Fitzgerald Kennedy were able, for a short time, to do.

Significantly, Amendment XXVIII also grants the fifty States the power to create credit within their own sovereign jurisdictions, to meet their crushing deficit burdens, instead of having to float endless bond issues and borrow more "money" at interest from banks and investors of the bond-holding class. The Articles of Confederation, drafted by the revolutionary Continental Congress of 1777, allowed the States this power - and it should be restored to the several States, in order for there to be a healthy society in North America.

Thus, Clause 8 reads: "Furthermore, it amends and modifies Article II, Section 10, clause 1, to empower State Treasuries to create [a limited amount of] non-inflationary Credit, in the form of check-book money in order to meet the pressing needs of the States."

Sincerely,

Mark Walter Evans,
Hood Mountain,
California

[jbox]

Why We Need Amendment XVIII, Now

The United States Congress needs to do the right thing. Obviously, at this time, with an eighty-two percent disapproval rating in the eyes of the American People, they can not sink much lower in the esteem of most Americans. ........

Sincerely,

Mark Walter Evans,
Hood Mountain,
California

Gee Mark, if this amendment is enacted and only 7% of face value is paid out don't you think alot of ordinary Americans holding T-bills will be hurt? And won't this result in a declaration of war by China? Am I missing something? The notion of simply printing money to pay for legislative spending and waving a magic wand to make the national debt disappear probably will result in a worldwide financial crisis. Can you imagine how downgraded the US credit rating will be? Your comments?

[Iolchan]

Good Questions, Jon

Thank you for your swift and perceptive Questions honing in on What, indeed, is the Achilles heal of the Issue - the Crux of the very Real Dilemma of what to do with this horrific Problem - a Banker-created problem, mind you, with which We, the Commons, find ourselves now beset.

In the first place, if you will read the missive again, carefully, it does state:

Iolchan wrote:

Amendment XVIII makes a distinction between the United States Savings Bonds that were purchased by Ma and Pa bond investors and those U.S. Treasury Securities that were purchased by the Prime Banks at Bond Auctions held under the auspices of the Federal Open Market Committee, the Federal Reserve’s Window on Wall Street. Commercial Banks have always utilized the “multiplier” of the fractional reserve system to purchase U.S. Treasury Securities at cents on the dollar.

In recognition of this Fact - that such transactions are, and have always been, from the beginning, Fraudulent - AMENDMENT XVIII renders the outstanding “Debt” that is “owed” to the Prime Banks of this – and every other Nation - at a mere 7% [Seven per cent] of the face value of such Fraudulent, Banker-secured paper “Debt.”

This reduction of the Debt to a Sum that is payable in Credit, on the Books of the new Sub-Treasury Central Bank-of-Issue, the “Common-Wealth Central Bank” is, in Reality, exceedingly fair and Just, in recognition of the Fraud that has been committed by the Community of International bankers, in foisting the former system upon the unsuspecting Public.

Thus, AMENDMENT XVIII allows a large amount of Credit to be created on the books of the new Common-Wealth Central Bank - as compensation for that portion of the investment of the Prime Banks in the National Debt, that might actually be deemed ‘legitimate.” This gives the Prime Banks some Credit – but no Stock - in the new Institution.

This is because, as I wrote in the Article, The Problem With the Federal Reserve, the Prime Banks are able to use the device that the economists refer to as the "Multiplier" - that is, "fractional reserve" banking, to purchase U.S. Treasury Securities at cents on the dollar from the Federal Reserve Bank, when they are offered at Bond Auctions, conducted under the auspices of the Federal Open Market Committee, {the F.O.M.C.} the Fed's Window on Wall Street.

Ordinary Ma and Pa investors are not able to do this. But Banks - which receive their charters from either the Federal, or State governments, are allowed to multiply their deposits, i.e., Other People' Money {"O.P.M."} by a factor that varies anywhere from 7 to 20 times, {this factor is known as the "reserve ratio"} and Que up at F.O.M.C. Bond auctions, and"purchase U.S. government Bonds" at cents on the dollar. Ordinary Ma and Pa investors must pay for U.S. Savings Bonds with their hard-earned cash. And they should be paid in full, in cash. Sorry about the future yields of their formerly "sound" investment. Here is what I wrote about the mechanics of this process a few pages back on this thread:

Iolchan wrote:

This is a picture of the Fed's relationship with the Federal Open Market Committee (the F.O.M.C.), the Fed's "window" upon Wall Street, the creation of which was part of the marvelous "Reform" package of that Father Christmas and friend of the people, Franklin D. Roosevelt. The F.O.M.C., in order to "regulate" the economy, buys and sells on the open market corporate and government bonds and securities. This is so it can create inflation when that is needed or deflation, should that be necessary. It creates "inflation" by buying corporate securities from both domestic and foreign corporations. It pays for the securities by issuing "new money," that is, money it has created out of thin air, as is its privilege.

The Fed operates on the principle that corporations need the money and that it eventually will find its way into the economy. Thus we find the New Deal was practicing "trickle-down" economics long before Reagan. In buying government bonds the commercial banks use the "Fractional Reserve" currency they are allowed to create. The Corporations which are favored with Federal Open Market Committee largesse, as a rule, have inter-locking directorates with the Commercial Banks, where they park their money.

These banks can then multiply their deposits by the factor determined by the current reserve ratio and purchase government bonds, speculate, or lend to customers. The Fed, meanwhile, when economic conditions dictate, pontificates solemnly that there is too much inflation and that they must put the brakes on the economy and institute a little deflation. The Fed, so the story goes, causes "deflation" by selling bonds and securities on the open market. The theory has it that the F.O.M.C. sells bonds, to take money out of the economy because "too much money" in the economy has caused "inflation," which in turn has caused prices to rise, and that's bad. That's the cover story.

When prices rise, it's generally not because of scarcity of commodities - or because the volume of money has made prices "dear." - It's usually because the cartels have simply jacked the prices up a notch. [This is no longer the case with regards to Oil.] Profit. The real reason the Fed sells bonds through the F.O.M.C. is because the business of the Fed is transfer wealth and energy (money rendered back in taxes is the tangible expression of labor and energy) from the People to the bond-holding class.

The term "bond-holding class" does not refer to the Ma & Pa owners of "U.S. Savings Bonds," but to the elite families who own the "preferred" stock in the Prime Banks, and utilize the ability of these banks to create "Fractional Reserve" dollars out of thin air. These Families receive Quarterly dividends from this bank-stock. The Fed sells U.S. government securities (the notes that were issued against the money in square 1) in order to raise money for the poor government, which is continually running into deficit, spending beyond its allocated budget.

These securities, as long as they remained in the vaults of the Fed, were the property of the People. But the Fed is continually moving these bonds, through bond auctions at the FOMC, into the "public," (that is, the banking) sector. You will remember that the prime banks are able to multiply their deposits to create new money. These prime banks and foreign, and domestic brokerage houses, queue up to buy government bonds when they are offered for sale.

This is merely one more way our hungry government obtains money. The "new" bank- created money is transferred from the "reserve accounts" of the prime banks at the Fed and is credited to the Government. The prime banks, however, have acquired interest-bearing bonds.

Chinese and Japanese Prime Banks - as well as the British and Canadian - and all of the European Prime Banks from the rest of the G-7 nations also, own a good chunk of this vast Quantity of speculative paper; which is increasingly looking like a very poor investment. Look, I did not create this Problem. As a matter of fact, It is an almost insoluble Problem, which the Class of International Bankers created for the rest of us a long, long, time ago.

Now, as far as China declaring War on the U.S. as a result of a Credit Default - that is a very distinct possibility, which should make all of us more than a little uncomfortable. A very real possibility.

But it might be the Wave of the Future, and in the Cards, anyway. I would argue, however, that the "Debt" owed to Chinese or Japanese Commercial Banks is not any more real or tangible than the so-called "Debt" that is owed to Prime Banks that are located in New York, London, Paris, Frankfort, den Hague, or Geneva.

The whole species of so-called "Debt Paper" should be rescinded and repudiated - the sooner the better. It could have been done in 1948. {This particular "China problem" was not even in the cards then.} Robert LaFollette, Jr., and Jerry Voorhis wanted to Nationalize the Federal Reserve Bank after the War - and that is why the Big Money hired the hit-men, Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon, to take them down in 1946.

The "International Debt" - and the so-called "National Debt," of all nations, are nothing but banker-created Fraud - and the very worst aspect of "Capitalism." Obviously, the tentacles of International Finance are ubiquitous. And the International Bankers - who conceived this end game a long ago - have concocted a great big, huge, incestuous, international melange, in this "New World Order," this "Global Economy" of theirs.

The International Bankers, and the Families which own the CLASS A, preferred stock in the Transnational Banks, are a Class, mind you. And this one, {me-uns} being a Mishelling, am highly sensitive on that Subject. So let me make one thing perfectly Clear: the term, with me, is not a "code phrase" for "Jewish Bankers" - since 88% of them are not Jews, at all.

The core of the Power Elite in America are Anglo-Normans. A verifiable indication of this is the FACT that the wealthiest Jewish Bankers on Wall Street can not even buy a house on Fishers Island, New York, in Long Island Sound, off the coast of Mystic, Connecticut, where there's hamburger all over the highway. They gotta live in their spiffy town houses opposite Central Park or in the snazzy ghetto of Westchester County. FACT.

Seriously,
Mark Walter Evans

[Speak2Truth]

Gee Mark, if this amendment is enacted and only 7% of face value is paid out don't you think alot of ordinary Americans holding T-bills will be hurt? And won't this result in a declaration of war by China? Am I missing something? The notion of simply printing money to pay for legislative spending and waving a magic wand to make the national debt disappear probably will result in a worldwide financial crisis. Can you imagine how downgraded the US credit rating will be?

Even more salient - why bother amending the Constitution when they're freely ignoring it anyway?

The FIRST step is to create an absolute enforcement of the Constitution. THEN we can think about what other restrictions we wish to put on our public servants. Those naughty, naughty folks seem to think they were elected to be Rulers.... tsk tsk.

How would we go about actually enforcing the Constitution?