Long Contrails/Chemtrails? across western sky

[The Owl]

So now that I've proven that the government is spraying us with chemicals from planes, without any concern of toxicity and health effects, and for the profit of corporations, you have led me to why they are spraying us here where there are no storm systems.

It's Monsanto!!!! As always. They are developing aluminum resistant seeds. Why? Because someone or something is emitting toxic amounts of aluminum into our soil. Now, aluminum is found naturally in soil and always has. Aluminum in small amounts has never prevented us from growing crops before. Now Monsanto is claiming that they need to manufacture aluminum resistant seeds because there actually is way too much aluminum in our soil.

Now I know this is speculation. But it is seemingly the most logical explanation that can be made from the facts that Monsanto is creating these seeds, we haven't had a need for them before, airplanes have been seeding the sky for over 60 years and that our soils are becoming toxic with aluminum. This is my reasoning for believing that we are being sprayed by airplanes on clear days. Unless someone can give me reasonable explanation as to how our soils are being saturated with aluminum in all different types of terrain........

Look - The environment is saturated with aluminum because we have been casually USING the stuff in throw away containers for 5 or 6 decades... what do you think all those cans that get tossed absolutely everywhere and never picked up and recycled degrade into? Do you imagine they remain cans forever? Steel cans become rust, aluminum cans become aluminum oxide which is a fine, whitish powder that the winds then take and blow EVERYWHERE. (The same is true for all the radioactive fallout from the atmospheric bomb tests of the '40s, '50s and '60s which you never hear mentioned anymore even though the stuff remains active to this DAY and will for many generations to come. No one ever connects THAT to the spikes in cancer rates and other diseases over the same time period. That might call for some costly reparations to the people.) Stuff doesn't just GO AWAY when you toss it. It breaks down into other forms and persists virtually forever in some form or other. I wouldn't be surprised to find that all this hysteria about planes deliberately spraying aluminum might have been started by the corporations that produce all the toss away aluminum to create a way for them to avoid culpability. But that's another story.
I'm no fan of big agra, Cargill, Monsanto, et al. They have gotten so detached and corrupted by the billions they rake in every year that I think their concern for profits exceeds any care they might have for the people down wind of the pesticides they have farmers spray on their monoculture crops. I feel their efforts to eliminate organically produced foods by paying equally corrupt congress people to change the rules is a great evil that will bite us all on our collective ass. Either us directly or our children or their children.
My self talk is that you have a real need for this deliberate spraying deal to be so that borders on religious fervor and I have little interest in pursuing this further with you. You are welcome to believe as you will, it's not my job, nor is it an interest to engage in such debates. I thought I would attempt to clarify some things about the atmosphere and how it works and now I'm getting drawn into a lot of "Well what about this's"... I have other things I need to do so I wish you well, my friend. Nice conversing with you. I'm done with this thread.

[spam1]

I find it interesting that in us not agreeing, there seems a necessity for you to fix the situation by diagnosing my state of being to make it seem that I have an emotional unbalanced issue that can be fixed with a good dose of your education in meterology...assumptions that are then written as "facts" as if you're an authority on me and my state of being..."should'ing" me on what to do about it. I wonder what feelings are really coming up for you in having this conversation, whether it really seems like a good way to actually get a person to see your point of view and be excited about new ideas or experiences. Or is there something else going on for you that you would want to attempt to diminish me by your diagnosis and remedy. In a dialogue, I find it best to not project my state of emotion onto someone else. I support you in doing the same.

You should take chill pill. Ooops..

[someguy]

Look - The environment is saturated with aluminum because we have been casually USING the stuff in throw away containers for 5 or 6 decades... what do you think all those cans that get tossed absolutely everywhere and never picked up and recycled degrade into? Do you imagine they remain cans forever? Steel cans become rust, aluminum cans become aluminum oxide which is a fine, whitish powder that the winds then take and blow EVERYWHERE. (The same is true for all the radioactive fallout from the atmospheric bomb tests of the '40s, '50s and '60s which you never hear mentioned anymore even though the stuff remains active to this DAY and will for many generations to come. No one ever connects THAT to the spikes in cancer rates and other diseases over the same time period. That might call for some costly reparations to the people.) Stuff doesn't just GO AWAY when you toss it. It breaks down into other forms and persists virtually forever in some form or other. I wouldn't be surprised to find that all this hysteria about planes deliberately spraying aluminum might have been started by the corporations that produce all the toss away aluminum to create a way for them to avoid culpability. But that's another story.
I'm no fan of big agra, Cargill, Monsanto, et al. They have gotten so detached and corrupted by the billions they rake in every year that I think their concern for profits exceeds any care they might have for the people down wind of the pesticides they have farmers spray on their monoculture crops. I feel their efforts to eliminate organically produced foods by paying equally corrupt congress people to change the rules is a great evil that will bite us all on our collective ass. Either us directly or our children or their children.
My self talk is that you have a real need for this deliberate spraying deal to be so that borders on religious fervor and I have little interest in pursuing this further with you. You are welcome to believe as you will, it's not my job, nor is it an interest to engage in such debates. I thought I would attempt to clarify some things about the atmosphere and how it works and now I'm getting drawn into a lot of "Well what about this's"... I have other things I need to do so I wish you well, my friend. Nice conversing with you. I'm done with this thread.

Hmm.... Okay. Well for starters I doubt that decomposed aluminum cans are covering a significant part of our country, never mind that aluminum cans take 200 years to biodegrade and they were only invented about 60 years ago.... But maybe my religious fervor is to blame for this logic. Anyhow, I thank you as well for the conversation and bid you a kind farewell.

[jbox]

And on and on it goes. So you see, whether or not I'm as knowledgeable as you are in meteorology, I can do a simple google search for cloud seeding California and click on the links as provided. Easy as pie.....

Final note: The government is spraying us with chemicals for the profit of PG&E, case closed. No matter how much you think it can't be done, it is being done.



Oh yes, and as Frank Zappa once said, "So many rumors have been spread about Studebaker Hawk..... Oh! It's gotta be true!!"

[podfish]

And on and on it goes. So you see, whether or not I'm as knowledgeable as you are in meteorology, I can do a simple google search for cloud seeding California and click on the links as provided. Easy as pie.....

Final note: The government is spraying us with chemicals for the profit of PG&E, case closed. No matter how much you think it can't be done, it is being done.

Oh yes, and as Frank Zappa once said, "So many rumors have been spread about Studebaker Hawk..... Oh! It's gotta be true!!"

I always got to side with Frank.
If you look through this thread, it's the escalation that started to get a rise of of me and a couple of other commentators - the inference that there's a massive secret program going on with lots of noxious chemicals of various types being sprayed for a variety of nefarious goals, and that the evidence is easily visible if only you look upward to see it.
None of us has denied that cloud-seeding might occur, and there seems to be a general consensus that you can't trust the bastards - whichever group of bastards you may choose. Even your post takes a technically correct statement and makes it sound like the black helicopters are acting in service of our corporate overlords. But when the counter-people at the mall spray us with chemicals in service of Macy's profits, it draws less ire - even though I find it way more threatening.

[someguy]

But when the counter-people at the mall spray us with chemicals in service of Macy's profits, it draws less ire - even though I find it way more threatening.

Maybe because you can choose to go into Macy's or not, but you really have no choice but to breathe air and eat food that comes from the ground.

[Dixon]

I find it interesting that in us not agreeing, there seems a necessity for you to fix the situation by diagnosing my state of being to make it seem that I have an emotional unbalanced issue that can be fixed with a good dose of your education in meterology...assumptions that are then written as "facts" as if you're an authority on me and my state of being..."should'ing" me on what to do about it. I wonder what feelings are really coming up for you in having this conversation, whether it really seems like a good way to actually get a person to see your point of view and be excited about new ideas or experiences. Or is there something else going on for you that you would want to attempt to diminish me by your diagnosis and remedy. In a dialogue, I find it best to not project my state of emotion onto someone else. I support you in doing the same.

Hey, sharingwisdom--

It seems to me like you're really negativizing Pterosapiens' comment. I don't see him as having "diagnosed" you as "emotional(ly) unbalanced", nor implying that he's an "authority on (you) and (your) state of being". I think you inferred stuff that just wasn't implied. Ironically, your response to him seems closer to diagnosing and psyching someone out ("Or is there something else going on for you that you would want to attempt to diminish me" etc. etc.) than does anything he said to you. To me it looks like he simply responded to your quite explicitly manifest anxiety around the "chemtrails" issue--anxiety which is an entirely reasonable response to your beliefs about the issue, whether or not those beliefs happen to be true. From his position of knowing a bit more than you or I about the relevant science, he thinks your beliefs on the subject are mistaken and suggested that you could assuage your anxiety about it by learning the relevant science. Regardless of who is right or wrong about the underlying issue, I saw him as responding to your obvious expressions of anxiety (or "concern", if you prefer) with a reasonable suggestion motivated by caring. I was surprised at your quite negative characterization of his post.

[AllorrahBe]

Having been a former "Fragrance Model" at Macy's and other stores, I was trained not to just indiscriminately spray people! I was trained to make eye contact, engage, offer my wrist ("layered" with cologne, body lotion, etc. of the same fragrance) and then ASK if the person would like to try some to see if it smelled the same on them... we would NEVER just spray at someone.

If someone did that to you at Macy's or anywhere, you would certainly want to report it to management, even if you are not sensitive to synthetic fragrances, etc. We are unable to report to management when we are sprayed with anything from the sky, whatever it may be.

If you find more threat from one individual at Macy's than what appears to be numerous giant planes flying around spraying stuff, I suggest you take advantage of some of the excellent therapies offered on WaccoBB to identify, experience and manage your emotions. FEAR in any form is still False Evidence Appearing Real... and there's enough REAL out there to be alert to and concerned about.

I'm not meaning to attack anyone, "I'm just saying..."

Rev. Allorrah Be
Circles of Light Ministries

Maybe because you can choose to go into Macy's or not, but you really have no choice but to breathe air and eat food that comes from the ground.

[someguy]

Hey, sharingwisdom--

It seems to me like you're really negativizing Paul's ("Pterosapiens") comment. I don't see him as having "diagnosed" you as "emotional(ly) unbalanced", nor implying that he's an "authority on (you) and (your) state of being". I think you inferred stuff that just wasn't implied. Ironically, your response to him seems closer to diagnosing and psyching someone out ("Or is there something else going on for you that you would want to attempt to diminish me" etc. etc.) than does anything he said to you. To me it looks like he simply responded to your quite explicitly manifest anxiety around the "chemtrails" issue--anxiety which is an entirely reasonable response to your beliefs about the issue, whether or not those beliefs happen to be true. From his position of knowing a bit more than you or I about the relevant science, he thinks your beliefs on the subject are mistaken and suggested that you could assuage your anxiety about it by learning the relevant science. Regardless of who is right or wrong about the underlying issue, I saw him as responding to your obvious expressions of anxiety (or "concern", if you prefer) with a reasonable suggestion motivated by caring. I was surprised at your quite negative characterization of his post.

Where are you both reading anxiety from Sharingwisdom's posts? Facts and concerns are completely different than anxiety. I think that you and Paul are projecting your ideas of what a person who is concerned about chemtrails onto her, and seeing anxiety where there is none. You can find out from her yourself, but I know that shes not one to be anxious about this kind of thing, or much of anything in general. And I personally thought her response to Paul was full of tact and was very level-headed. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they need educating, especially from a third rate school such as the JC.....

[sharingwisdom]

Hey Dixon:
For clarification, I didn’t ask Paul how to be fixed since I had no anxiety about the situation. That was an assumption, and to me a “diagnosing” of my emotional state. A concern doesn’t need to have anxiety included. I can be a wondering. Are you in anxiety in writing to me because you have a “concern” around Paul being misinterpreted…to make sure that I really understand what he wrote? If not, then why did you feel you had to reiterate for him or interpret what you felt he said to me? He already apologized several days ago, so he took responsibility. We're fine, and life moves on.

Suggestions are fine to me if they are done in a way that is both inviting and have been invited. Wording and presentation is everything. There is a big difference between telling a person what to do when unsolicited, and inviting them to look at something because it was beneficial or supportive to them. One is very authoratative and feels like another is unable to make their own choices, and the other is welcoming and open.

And your understanding of negative characterization is definitely different than mine. I reflected back to Paul in what he said, looking at the patterns of how he communicated. I know that we are very different in how we see things and relate to others, Dixon, and I can totally agree to disagree with you. And that includes who you see as experts and how you interpret what I said to Paul.
Be well!

Hey, sharingwisdom--

It seems to me like you're really negativizing Paul's ("Pterosapiens") comment. I don't see him as having "diagnosed" you as "emotional(ly) unbalanced", nor implying that he's an "authority on (you) and (your) state of being". I think you inferred stuff that just wasn't implied. Ironically, your response to him seems closer to diagnosing and psyching someone out ("Or is there something else going on for you that you would want to attempt to diminish me" etc. etc.) than does anything he said to you. To me it looks like he simply responded to your quite explicitly manifest anxiety around the "chemtrails" issue--anxiety which is an entirely reasonable response to your beliefs about the issue, whether or not those beliefs happen to be true. From his position of knowing a bit more than you or I about the relevant science, he thinks your beliefs on the subject are mistaken and suggested that you could assuage your anxiety about it by learning the relevant science. Regardless of who is right or wrong about the underlying issue, I saw him as responding to your obvious expressions of anxiety (or "concern", if you prefer) with a reasonable suggestion motivated by caring. I was surprised at your quite negative characterization of his post.

[Dixon]

Well, as you say below, sharingwisdom, I guess we'll have to "agree to disagree". It seems clear to me that some measure of anxiety was implicit in your earlier post, that there's nothing wrong with that, and that it wasn't an insult to you, nor a "diagnosing" of you to allude to that. I continue to think you interpreted the term "anxiety" in a negative, pathologizing way that was not intended by Pterosapiens, and inferred meanings that were not really implied in what he said, then gave him an unpleasant response based on your misperceptions of his meanings/intentions. I think he was being too nice by apologizing to you, because he did you no wrong, and I came to his defense because I don't like to see people catch a ration of shit when they've done nothing to deserve it.

That about sums it up from my end. Blessings on you.

Hey Dixon:
For clarification, I didn’t ask Paul how to be fixed since I had no anxiety about the situation. That was an assumption, and to me a “diagnosing” of my emotional state. A concern doesn’t need to have anxiety included. I can be a wondering. Are you in anxiety in writing to me because you have a “concern” around Paul being misinterpreted…to make sure that I really understand what he wrote? If not, then why did you feel you had to reiterate for him or interpret what you felt he said to me? He already apologized several days ago, so he took responsibility. We're fine, and life moves on.

Suggestions are fine to me if they are done in a way that is both inviting and have been invited. Wording and presentation is everything. There is a big difference between telling a person what to do when unsolicited, and inviting them to look at something because it was beneficial or supportive to them. One is very authoratative and feels like another is unable to make their own choices, and the other is welcoming and open.

And your understanding of negative characterization is definitely different than mine. I reflected back to Paul in what he said, looking at the patterns of how he communicated. I know that we are very different in how we see things and relate to others, Dixon, and I can totally agree to disagree with you. And that includes who you see as experts and how you interpret what I said to Paul.
Be well!

[sharingwisdom]

It appears, from your repeated comments, that you assume, through your thinking, what other people's motives are and what you think they feel [It seems clear to me that some measure of anxiety was implicit in your earlier post, there's nothing wrong with that, and that it wasn't an insult to you], but you don't really know. Your "clarity" is just an opinion based on a perception of someone you don't know at all.

I wonder what makes you think that Paul isn't capable of handling his own affairs? He’s a grown man. Did you ask him if he needed support to clarify his position?

And I wonder, just wonder, if there might be some anxiety for you. [“I don't like to see people catch a ration of shit when they've done nothing to deserve it.”] I wonder if this statement doesn’t say more about what is happening for you than protection for Paul.

What I notice in the pattern of your writing is that you again wrote about what you thought I was feeling, but this time attempting to make it ok for me to admit something that wasn't true for me. Do you think that if you tell me enough times that I had anxiety when I wrote Paul, that it becomes true for me?

I am definitely not in denial of my feelings. In fact, I work with them on a daily basis, checking within myself, examining my patterns, thoughts and beliefs, and creating lots of space to grow and be. Does it not make sense that when I wrote “There is a big difference between telling a person what to do when unsolicited, and inviting them to look at something because it was beneficial or supportive to them. One is very authoritative and feels like another is unable to make their own choices, and the other is welcoming and open,” there was an opening to change the pattern of communication?

There are wonderful books on how to communicate in healthy ways that invite people to participate in conversations w/o telling them what things are for them, w/o assumptions, in reflective listening, w/o blaming, allowing them to come to their own conclusions, that are invitational. Marshall Rosenberg PhD. is a world peace leader and has many educational, practical and inspirational books along this line. I took 8 years of parenting courses when my children were growing up so I could communicate in ways different than how I was raised. The 3 R's of parenting a child is being Respectful (allowing choices), consequences that are Related, & Responsibility for our actions through self reflection in how we make our choices. Not many of us learned in this way, and many continue the old dysfunction patterns today.

I welcome communication that exhibits the 3 R's and hope that this group is open to this. We all want peace in the world, but we cannot have it unless it starts with us first, in how we communicate so others can hear us and we can be heard. We are here to make the changes.

I appreciate this forum. Blessed be.

Well, as you say below, sharingwisdom, I guess we'll have to "agree to disagree". It seems clear to me that some measure of anxiety was implicit in your earlier post, that there's nothing wrong with that, and that it wasn't an insult to you, nor a "diagnosing" of you to allude to that. I continue to think you interpreted the term "anxiety" in a negative, pathologizing way that was not intended by Pterosapiens, and inferred meanings that were not really implied in what he said, then gave him an unpleasant response based on your misperceptions of his meanings/intentions. I think he was being too nice by apologizing to you, because he did you no wrong, and I came to his defense because I don't like to see people catch a ration of shit when they've done nothing to deserve it.

That about sums it up from my end. Blessings on you.

[AllorrahBe]

Finally, after all this accusatory and off-topic chatter, something worth reading! I nearly unsubscribed from this thread some time ago, but hung in there... and I'm glad sharingwisdom finally shared some! I hope others are "getting it!"

Rev. Allorrah Be
Circles of Light Ministries