Book Is Rallying Resistance to the Antivaccine Crusade

[Sylph]

Thanks for the update.

Mmmmm, creamed lab rat! Just an example of Diamond's tasty prose. His enthusiasm about his topic is infectious.

[d-cat]

d-cat, I am offended by your implication that I would in any way be in favor of eugenics or some "mad scientist" plot to "control population"!

What implication are you referring to please? Is it because I quoted you?

"Even if Rockefeller is more evil than Hitler, it is true that our earth has too many people and that we are running out of fuel, soil, clean air, clean water, ocean reefs, fish, endangered animals, etc, all because there are too many humans."

It seemed to me that you were defending Rockefeller.

As I've said before, Sanger was flawed but perhaps not as horrible as her detractors make her out to be. The bottom line was that she believed in giving women the power to control their own fertility. She was anti-abortion in her later years, and hoped that birth control would make abortions unnecessary.

Sanger was "flawed"? My opinion of her is much worse.

“We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

- Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Original source: Sophia Smith Collection, Smith College, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Also described in Linda Gordon’s Woman’s Body, Woman’s Right: A Social History of Birth Control in America. New York: Grossman Publishers, 1976.

The anti global warming guy you quoted, Seitz, was affiliated with the Rockefeller University and was on the CFR. So by your logic, anything he says is suspect.
from Wikipedia:

Which post please? If this is true, thanks for the info.

People are complex. It's not all "black or white". It's impossible to plug everyone in to some 'vast conspiracy'.

I agree with the above. But why do you say this? I don't think everything is black or white. Do you really think I was trying to plug everyone into some vast conspiracy?

Conspiracies do exist. There was a great effort made by the conspirators through the media to make people believe that they don't exist. That the idea of a conspiracy is silly. They've made it a derogatory term. "Oh, that's a conspiracy" = "That's not true" or "That's crazy." Even Bushy boy got involved.

Anonym zu www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ

The public seems to have lost the true meaning of the word...

con·spir·a·cy (kn-spîr-s)
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

[Sylph]

Judging from what you've posted, you think it's ok to carry out genocide. You are so "sure" that the planet has reached its capacity. But the only thing you can really be sure of is that we are being told this. I've looked into who it is that's saying this, and why. If there are indeed too many people on the planet, what would happen? People would die. So why kill them first, especially if there's a chance that they're wrong, or that something could change?

I find it interesting that Sylph supports both population reduction and vaccinations.

These are the implications that are so outrageous! The idea that I support genocide or population 'reduction' by thinking that it is good that women around the world have access to birth control and safe abortions? From an earlier post of mine above, 78,000 women die yearly from unsafe abortions, and this is a common cause of death of women in Kenya. Even if the founder of Planned Parenthood was flawed, as we've discussed and agreed, PP is saving women, not killing them.
Vaccinations save lives. I can't change your mind about them, but lack of them lead to the deaths of millions of children. The best way to 'commit genocide', if you were that sick, would be to withhold vaccines.

Is it possible that a rich guy might want to do something good occasionally for his legacy? Is it realistic to believe that everything Rockefeller ever did was somehow linked with his evil plan for genocide, etc?
Rockefeller lost a son to scarlet fever, then founded Rockefeller U. Scientists from RU have discovered life saving medical treatments.The Rockefeller University - History
(Anti-global warming Seitz was president of RU.)

In the link you posted, Frederick Seitz’ name was prominent, so I tried to find out more about him.
Environmental Effects of increased carbon dioxide:Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide - Global Warming Petition Project
“Letter from Frederick Seitz
Research Review of Global Warming Evidence
Enclosed is a twelve-page review of information on the subject of "global warming," a petition in the form of a reply card, and a return envelope. Please consider these materials carefully.
The United States is very close to adopting an international agreement that would ration the use of energy and of technologies that depend upon coal, oil, and natural gas and some other organic compounds.
This treaty is, in our opinion, based upon flawed ideas. Research data on climate change do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful.”
He was an interesting guy, here is his obituary:
Frederick Seitz, 96, Physicist, Led Rockefeller University - March 6, 2008 - The New York Sun
As you can see, he was a member of several elite groups, including the CFR.

[Sylph]

I don't think everything is black or white. Do you really think I was trying to plug everyone into some vast conspiracy?

Conspiracies do exist. There was a great effort made by the conspirators through the media to make people believe that they don't exist. That the idea of a conspiracy is silly. They've made it a derogatory term. "Oh, that's a conspiracy" = "That's not true" or "That's crazy." Even Bushy boy got involved.

d-cat, I am sorry, but it seems that you see a conspiracy in just about everything, to the point that it's overwhelming to try to follow and research everything you post. I don't want to imply that you're crazy or haven't done a lot of reading about these issues or see everything as black or white. I respect your passion.
I am sure conspiracies do exist among the elite. I am also cynical about all politics, from both (all) sides. I am extremely suspicious of the media, especially TV/video. Case in point, Fox news with it's booming sound and garish red, white and blue graphics. Video editors can use tiny cut-up sound bites, ominous music, flashing pictures of Hitler and storm troupers to make an emotional point (the first Alex Jones video you posted). The implicit point in that video was that anyone who ever uttered the phrase "new world order" or attended Bilderberg is: evil, all-powerful, united in intent, focused on enslaving the world, etc.
Perhaps the best use of our time and energy is working to make sure we retain (or get back) our personal liberties laid out under the Bill of Rights. Also, I would be in favor of helping women around the world have control over their own fertility, even if it meant supporting an imperfect organization like Planned Parenthood.

[d-cat]

These are the implications that are so outrageous!

I'm glad to understand more clearly your position on genocide and eugenics. My statement was in response to your post which could be taken another way:

"Even if Rockefeller is more evil than Hitler, it is true that our earth has too many people and that we are running out of fuel, soil, clean air, clean water, ocean reefs, fish, endangered animals, etc, all because there are too many humans."

Of course I don't know you and can only go by what you've posted. But now that I know you better, I'd like to say that I'm sorry for having offended you. But be aware, there are people who support these things. In powerful positions too.

The idea that I support genocide or population 'reduction' by thinking that it is good that women around the world have access to birth control and safe abortions?

No, I didn't think you supported that for those reasons. And I do not think that anyone who supports birth control and safe abortions also supports genocide or eugenics.

Vaccinations save lives. I can't change your mind about them, but lack of them lead to the deaths of millions of children. The best way to 'commit genocide', if you were that sick, would be to withhold vaccines.

But you see, I've seen info that suggests otherwise. I've seen info that suggests they are being done to hurt lives, just like with fluoride, mercury, aspartame... I find it quite possible that they may be carrying out their (now declassified) plan of population reduction in third world countries, under the guise of humanitarianism. Dr. Laibow of the Natural Solutions Foundation, who has been exposing and opposing Codex Alimentarius, has reported that women in third world countries run away in horror when the vaccine administrators arrive, because "they know what it does to their babies." Combine that with similar stories about sterilization, and the documents like Kissinger's Memorandum 200, and I think one can understand that the idea of forced vaccinations (and without any liability too) within our own "free" country is a real concern for many people. Because I believe medical decisions are a personal matter, it bothers me to think that that decision might be left up to a government that has shown they place lobbyists over people; a government that permits fluoride, aspartame, melamine, etc.; the same powers that are responsible for wars, for the deaths of millions of innocents in the Middle East, for torture. Some of these powerful people and companies were connected to the Nazis. They took over medical schools to teach that their profitable prescription medicine is the way to good health. I posted an MSNBC report on this thread about Bayer knowingly selling an aids-tainted drug that was primarily used on children. For me, there is ample evidence to give me reason to distrust them.

Is it possible that a rich guy might want to do something good occasionally for his legacy? Is it realistic to believe that everything Rockefeller ever did was somehow linked with his evil plan for genocide, etc?
Rockefeller lost a son to scarlet fever, then founded Rockefeller U. Scientists from RU have discovered life saving medical treatments.The Rockefeller University - History
(Anti-global warming Seitz was president of RU.)

I can only suggest that you continue looking into the Rockefeller family and/or the NWO. And to not be dismissive of every "conspiracy" site, for reasons I gave in my previous post. The Rockefellers have long been very powerful, and have much influence over society. They are responsible for our dependence on (their) oil. In the video lecture on laetrile (The Science & Politics of Cancer), G. Edward Griffin explains the reason for their philantrophy, as well as how they gained control over medical institutions. The Rockefellers are supposedly behind the NEA (via the UN) who I understand makes up our school curriculum. I haven't researched that one out yet, but I do question why we aren't being educated about important subjects like what the Federal Reserve is, or about false flag operations in our history books and classes. Edward Griffin has a long history of exposing important topics to the public, such as the Federal Reserve and the UN. I will be posting his '84 interview with Soviet KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov which should open a few people's eyes to just how big the deception is.

Thanks for the info on Seitz. This info is of interest to me from a few different angles, and is appreciated.

d-cat, I am sorry, but it seems that you see a conspiracy in just about everything

It may seem that way, because the things I post about here and the things that I feel threaten our liberty are conspiracy related. That is, involving a (secretive) group or groups being subversive. Also, is it possible that the belief that I see conspiracies in everything might sometimes partly be due to a reader's own conclusion on the subjects I post about, as the great majority of my posts are simply news stories. I don't like to pontificate about what's going on, I'd much rather just show it. The Obama thread for example.

Video editors can use tiny cut-up sound bites, ominous music, flashing pictures of Hitler and storm troupers to make an emotional point (the first Alex Jones video you posted).

If you're talking about EndGame, those images of nazis & storm troopers are related to the subject. But there is a lot of evidence that something really big is taking place besides just what Alex says. For example, there is info on the numerous secret detention camps we now have in our country in the Revolution thread (WaccoTalk), including a SF Chronicle article.

The implicit point in that video was that anyone who ever uttered the phrase "new world order" or attended Bilderberg is: evil, all-powerful, united in intent, focused on enslaving the world, etc.

Not just anyone who ever uttered the phrase, but world leaders. They used to say the NWO was nonsense, that it was some crazy "conspiracy theory", but now the world leaders are actually using the term. Now they are promoting it. And we are now coming face to face with the orchestrated and/or fabricated crises that will be used to implement it, just as they said. I have been following the subject long enough to have seen that a lot of what was expected has come true, with more to follow. I feel so strongly that our freedom is under threat that I pretty much have devoted the last few years of my life to continue the research and to get the word out, while encouraging people to prepare for very difficult times ahead. I put up with all the disdain and insults and ridicule because I understand this stuff is unimaginable. And I understand this isn't what people want to hear. But I also understand that I must do this.

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
- Arthur Shopenhauer

Perhaps the best use of our time and energy is working to make sure we retain (or get back) our personal liberties laid out under the Bill of Rights. Also, I would be in favor of helping women around the world have control over their own fertility, even if it meant supporting an imperfect organization like Planned Parenthood.

I'd focus on the former, or you won't even have a say in the latter. I believe it's do-or-die time now, people. Our liberty is at stake. So my question is, what are we made of? Have we been dumbed-down to the point where we're just naiive fluoridated tv watchers who can't even recognize when their government is being taken over; who now only obey authority, rather than question or challenge it?

There is a revolution going on. There is an info wars going on. Their tricks won't work on an informed public. They use the 'Problem-Reaction-Solution' paradigm (also known as the Hegelian Dialect). Deception is the name of their game. But millions are waking up. Millions are catching on to the fact that they try to keep us divided and fighting amongst ourselves, so that we won't unite against them. Unfortunately, many more millions have not woken up yet. They still believe the world works as is presented. They still believe mainstream news and newspapers keep us informed. They still believe they've been educated. They still believe Obama will bring change and move us in a different direction. They still believe the election process is fair. That merely protesting will change things. That the government will solve our problems and take care of us. And the longer it takes for them to wake up, the less of a chance we'll have to do something about it.

They are stealing your freedom. They are stealing your country. They are stealing your money. Your home. Your investments. Your pension. Your standard of living. Your privacy. Your security. Your health. Your food. Your thoughts. They are stealing your very life as you've known it, and it won't be too long before all this becomes painfully obvious.

Are we just gonna ignore it and let them get away with it?



"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it.
- Ayn Rand

"The greatest glory of a freeborn people is to transmit that freedom to their children."
- William Harward

"No Man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation."
- General Douglas MacArthur



"A government big enough to supply you with everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.... The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases."
- Thomas Jefferson


George Carlin on the American Dream
(5 min - adult language)
Anonym zu www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14SllPPLxY

[phooph]

[quote=d-cat;81825]

All truth goes through three stages: First it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident.
- Arthur Shopenhauer
[quote/]

d-cat, when I began to learn about these "conspiracy theories" I presented them to a colleague who had worked both in management at Union Carbide and later overseas in the federal government. I fully expected him to laugh at them and was rather surprised by his response. He all but patted me on the head and said in a rather condescending tone, "That's the way the world works. Get used to it."

I do not consider this person to be evil in the sense we think of as evil. He has a long record of working to improve the local community and sees himself as someone dedicated to making the world a better place. At the same time I have overheard him in conversations that I found disturbing. He's a resident of Sebastopol so understand that they walk among us.

Meanwhile, to get back to the original topic of the thread I am posting the following:

Rivers of Life and Death
Part 1
Dehydration, Blood Chi, Zeta Potential,
Mercury. Aluminum, Vaccines, Vitamin C

In humans, the three most common factors that reduce
the carrying capacity of the blood are bulk stress from
dehydration, aluminum toxicity, and electrolyte imbalance.

The significance of proper blood circulation can not be over emphasized. The ability of our heart to pump blood throughout our body efficiently and effectively is the cornerstone of good health. Unfortunately, there are things that interfere with our heart’s ability to effectively move blood through our veins and arteries with a lack of hydration being a basic backdrop to other aggressive insults that starve and damage other parts of the body due to poor circulation.

Dehydration (1) is one of the most
overlooked and basic causes of disease.

The root cause of degenerative disease comes from the body being unable to keep up with basic physiological functions, which leads to greater wear and tear. When the body for any reason cannot deliver the necessary nutrients and carry away metabolic wastes we set up the conditions for serious chronic disease. Many problems in the vascular system can upset this vital life process and dehydration often underlies vascular deficiency. Dehydration is not thought of as degenerative disease but dehydration leads to deterioration damage, because nutrient and waste flows can be greatly diminished and even cut off at strategic points in the body.

Low level dehydration guarantees the initiation
of chronic pathology of one type or another.

Sepsis, or what is known as blood poisoning, causes increased capillary stopped-flow, loss of capillary density, and maldistribution of blood flow. In response to an injury or infection, the immune system deploys an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons to annihilate bacteria or viruses. Immune cells called macrophages swarm into motion, devouring microbes and squirting out toxic substances to sterilize a wound. More cells pour in and continue to unleash lethal chemicals. The crossfire damages healthy tissues, which become inflamed—red, hot, swollen, and painful.

Sounds like a typical vaccine reaction. Generally the way vaccines work is that they contain a virus and substances called ‘adjuvants’ and preservatives (like mercury and aluminum) that kick the immune system into overdrive so that they go on the hunt for the viruses, eat ‘um up, and create antibodies against further infection. Unfortunately the immune system goes haywire and attacks what ever is in sight. The result can be an autoimmune disorder. When the immune system attacks the pancreas you have Type 1 Diabetes.

As we will see in its own section, ‘Aluminum’ is used in water treatment plants to cause materials to settle out of solution. It does this by reducing what is called zeta potential. In children’s bodies aluminum does the same thing, causing coagulation of the blood, and deposits and plaques in arteries, brain and throughout the body. Whoever thought of the idea of injecting heavy metals into children or anyone else should have been shot but the practice goes back to the early 1930s. The company that holds the most responsibility though is the Eli Lilly Company.

Hurting the blood more than they will ever know, pediatricians and general physicians deliberately inject heavy metals into the blood stream. As we will see these injections often have an immediate effect on blood chemistry and blood thermodynamics starting with microvascular ischemic changes (2) that sometimes ends in violent convulsive death for infants and young children. Most health care practitioners and doctors are not that aware of the blood and vascular system’s vulnerability especially when it is already compromised with slight to medium levels of dehydration.

Blood is a ‘colloid’ and in order to flow effectively, it must remain one, or clotting will occur from aggregation of its particles. - The colloidal properties of blood arise because its particles are immersed in a polar solvent/electrolyte solution, and surface charges have developed. They therefore have ionic characteristics and dipolar attributes, and are thus electrically charged. – Blood is a mixture of colloidal particles in a solution.

Colloidal particles dispersed in a solution are electrically charged due to their ionic characteristics and dipolar attributes. In colloid chemistry blood could easily be thought of as colloidal slurry and the principles that apply to any colloidal slurry or suspension also would apply to the blood. Each particle dispersed in a solution is surrounded by oppositely charged ions called the fixed layer. Scientists are able to measure these charges and call it the blood’s Zeta potential, which is a measure of the electrical force that exists between atoms, molecules, particles, and cells in a fluid. Acupuncturists and oriental medical doctors refer to this energy as blood chi.

Positively charged colloids cause coagulation; negatively charged
particles cause dispersion. In order for a mold, virus, bacteria or cancer
cell to grow, they must colonize. High zeta potential stops colonization.
Dr. Thomas Riddick

This chi or electromagnetic energy is at the center of red blood cell behavior as well as microbial proliferation. Zeta potential is the aggregate electrical charge of the blood colloid and this is controlled by pH and all the other elements found in the "soup". Zeta potential is the basis of blood’s colloidal properties. One of the greatest problems of low Zeta potential or low blood chi, which may be caused by higher acidity, is that toxins cannot be suspended for elimination or nutrients for absorption or transport to the cell, due to colloidal collapse and particle aggregation.

Zeta potential is a measure of the electrical force that exists
between atoms, molecules, particles, suspensoids, cells, etc.,
in a fluid. Zeta potential is a scientific parameter that can
be measured yet it directly corresponds to the Chi of the blood.

Dr. Thomas Riddick explains, “On a smaller scale, all trace metals, minerals, inorganic materials, proteins and amino acids are held in suspension not solution in liquids by an electrical charge. These very small particles are called colloids and are too small to see with the naked eye. Since colloids in suspension form chemical compounds (like ions in solution), the electrical properties of colloids are generally ignored. In liquids, the ability to carry material in suspension is a function of these minute electrical charges. As the negative charge increases, more material can be carried in suspension. As the charge decreases, the particles move closer to each other and the liquid is able to carry less material. There is a point where the ability to carry material in suspension is exceeded and particles begin to clump together, with the heavier metals or more positively charged colloids dropping out of the liquid and coagulating.”

The most important factor that affects zeta potential is pH.
The second most important factor is hydration.

The blood is 80 percent water thus hydration levels are extremely important in blood chemistry. Moderate dehydration, a 3-5% decrease in body weight due to fluid loss is sufficient to result in a substantial decrease in strength and endurance because of the decrease in oxygen carrying capacity of the blood signaling a drop in Zeta potential. Viscosity represents the stickiness and thickness of blood. It is the frictional resistance to blood flow. As the blood viscosity increases, blood flow decreases assuming that the heart maintains the same systolic pressure.

Electrical force, blood pH and Zeta potential are parallel concepts but no matter which word you choose (even blood chi) the crucial point is that these electrical and thus magnetic characteristics (controlled by blood pH) strength determines the amount of material (nutrients, wastes) that our blood and lymph can carry. Increasing the pH in the solution allows the fluid to dissolve and hold more material. In this way, more nutrients can be carried throughout your body and accumulated deposits of waste can be removed. Acidic blood carries a positive charge, and alkaline blood carries a negative charge. One of the side effects of acidic blood is to reduce the negative charge of colloids (combinations of molecules held in suspension) causing them to fall out of suspension thereby coagulating on the walls of the arteries similar to scale forming in a pipe. When it happens in an artery we call it Arteriolosclerosis.

High pH leads to cleaner blood. Dehydration
leads to acid blood condition and dirty blood.

As we can expect when blood becomes too acidic, driving down the zeta potential, blood begins to coagulate. This is a condition known as intravascular coagulation. Blood becomes a sludge that is increasingly difficult for the heart to pump, and decreasingly effective at performing the usual functions of blood. "Blood sludge" is widespread as acid foods, toxic (acid environments) acid emotions and even acid precipitating nutritional deficiencies all conspire to thicken our blood to the point it becomes more a sewer than a fresh flowing stream carrying life’s nutrients to the cells full of oxygen.

High negative charge is also bacterium-static. Negative charge dissipates.
In order for a bacterium, virus, fungus or cancer cell to grow,
it must colonize. High negative electrostatic charge stops colonization.

In this chapter we are going to show how much trouble is sourced in the blood and will pay especial attention to the immediate damage that is done when mercury and aluminum and other toxic poisons are injected directly into the blood. In this chapter we are going to find the brilliant work of Dr. Andrew Moulden who is taking his case to the Federal vaccine court in Washington. He has studied and mapped out what he calls a “MASS response” in the medium to small vessels of the body revealing damage to the endothelial linings of the micro vessels, which become the foci of ischemic necrosis and hypoxic brain injury.

Spiral flow through the blood vessels not only moves a larger
amount of fluid, but also it tends to clear out obstructions as it scours
the vessel walls. When the concentration of particles in a liquid becomes
too high, Zeta potential on colloids drops and spiral slow diminishes.

It is going to make our hearts sick to study and realize finally what is going on in so many men, women and children immediately after they have been vaccinated. He provides the missing link showing us that it is the vascular system that reacts first and this explains why there can be in infants spontaneous retinal bleeding, intra cerebral bleeding, ischemic brain damage and seizures strong enough to break bones. So violent can these seizures get that emergency room personal cannot tell the difference between vaccine damage and violent child abuse. Dr. Moulden says, “Unfortunately, the MASS response creates the same “pathognomonic signs” in vaccine adverse events as it does for children in need of protection.”

Researchers at Northwestern University have now shown how air pollution may cause heart attacks and strokes - by triggering the formation of blood clots. Dr. Gokhan Mutlu, the study's lead author and his colleagues found those tiny air pollution particles - often less than one tenth the width of a human hair in size - helped trigger clotting in the blood of mice. This is due to the pollution-induced secretion of interleukin-6, a pro-inflammatory cytokine, that has been implicated in the formation of blood clots. The heavy metals cadmium, lead and mercury are common air pollutants, being emitted mainly as a result of various industrial activities.

Mark Sircus Ac., OMD
Director International Medical Veritas Association
Winning The War On Cancer

Dr. Mark Sircus is the Director of Natural Allopathic Studies of the faculty of the DaVinci College of Holistic Medicine, an international school specializing in Holistic Medicine. Professor Sircus is also the director of oriental medical studies. A member of the International Association for Distance Learning, The DaVinci College of Holistic Medicine is accredited by the Complementary Medicine Association in the United Kingdom.

__________________________________________________


1. The term dehydration commonly is used to denote intravascular fluid depletion. However, it is important for clinicians to understand that volume depletion is distinct from dehydration. Volume depletion denotes contraction of the total intravascular plasma pool, while dehydration denotes loss of plasma-free water disproportionate to loss of sodium, the main intravascular solute. The distinction is important because volume depletion can exist with or without dehydration, and dehydration can exist with or without volume depletion. In children with dehydration, the most common underlying problem actually is volume depletion, not dehydration. Intravascular sodium levels are within the reference range, indicating that excess free water is not being lost from plasma. Rather, the entire plasma pool is contracted with solutes (mostly sodium) and solvents (mostly water) lost in proportionate quantities. This is volume depletion without dehydration. The most common cause is excessive extrinsic loss of fluids. Pediatric patients, especially those younger than 4 years, tend to be more susceptible to volume depletion as a result of vomiting, diarrhea, or increases in insensible water losses. Significant fluid losses may occur rapidly. The turnover of fluids and solute in infants and young children can be as much as 3 times that of adults.



2. After ischemia an incomplete return of blood flow has been reported in brain, kidney, skeletal muscle, and heart. The mechanisms responsible for the no-reflow phenomenon are perivascular edema, platelet or red cell plugs, and interstitial hemorrhage as well as leukocyte entrapment in capillaries. Leukocytes are large and stiff cells, which adhere to vascular endothelium naturally and are known to alter in their adherence properties under a variety of conditions. Skeletal muscle vasculature undergoes arteriogenesis to restore tissue perfusion and function following loss of blood flow. This process has been shown to occur in large vessels following ischemia, and recent studies suggest this may occur in the microcirculation as well. The recent refinement and computerization of intravital microscopy have permitted scientists to monitor microcirculation in vivo with minimal invasion. Video microscopy of red cell flow in capillaries at the surface of skeletal muscle provided the opportunity to quantitate ischemia-reperfusion (I-R) induced microcirculatory changes. The recovery of glomerular microcirculation seems to occur faster than that of peritubular capillaries. Scientists suggest that a functional vasculopathy develops very early in the course of ischemia-reperfusion in superficial cortical microvasculature and is more pronounced in peritubular capillaries, thus accounting for the development of patchy injury of tubular epithelia.



Legal Notice: The Author specifically invokes the First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and of the press without prejudice. The information written is published for informational purposes only under the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution for the United States of America, and should not in any way be used as a substitute for the advice of a physician or other licensed health care practitioner. The statements contained herein have not been evaluated by the FDA. The products discussed herein are not intended to diagnose, cure, prevent or treat any disease. Images, text and logic are copyright protected. ALL rights are explicitly reserved without prejudice, and no part of this essay may be reproduced except by written consent. ©2008 by Mark Sircus

[Yubajeff]

I am going to pull out my my dehydrated medical degree (I keep it in the trunk of my car, with my bolt cutters, fire extinguisher, and other heavy tools).
The kindest thing I can think of to say about the writing of Dr. Sircus (or should it Dr.Circus, or Sircus Doctor?) is that it belongs in the compost heap.
His verbiage is impressive nonsense. He could be as dangerous to your health as a charming psychopath is, with that line of B.S. You might as well stick with conventional medicine. I am as anti-conventional mecidine as the next Sonoman. I am as against such medical nonsense as a strand of mRNA is against its parent strand of DNA.
I won't dignify his position with any specific comments or criticisms. I don't waste my time. I only do that if I'm being paid for it.
I will say that whenever I put out a pet theory ( I have plenty; see my post on vaccination earlier in this thread) I am careful to identify it as pure speculation ("hair brained" is how I usually put it).
I am not making this point to put a feather in my own thinking cap. It is simply basic decency to be honest and upfront with people, even more so when coming from a position of quasi-authority. As Albert so charmingly put it:
"God punished me for my contempt of authority by making me an authority myself". BTW, the new Einstein bio by Issaccson is superb, and changed my life. It was the only hardback book I purchased in 2008, and it is so good I will glady buy another copy (I would just check it out of the library again, but I am a slow reader. It took me a month to get through chapter one, which was alone was worth the price). Don't waste time, money or more importantly gray matter (or maybe its white matter, although I doubt it) on the likes of Dr. Sircus and his Sircular reasoning. I think we are at the point in history where if we want to increase our understanding of medical science, we need to give some of it up, rather than pile up more hemodynamics, or whatever the friggin' hell Dr.S. is doing. We probably need to throw out the whole virus theory thing, or conventional Mendelian genetics, or refine our view of how the CNS works. Maybe the best we can do is go back to conventional Chinese medicine, which makes more sense then you know who. I wish I knew the answer.
Jeffrey M. Reiser M.D.

[Sylph]

Thanks for rehydrating your medical degree Dr. Jeff, and responding to the info re. Sircus.
So much of the "alternative" claims like Sircus' have truths mixed with half-truths and...nonsense.
There is talk of acid/base balance which has been discussed on the board. The point is that it is a delicately regulated mechanism and one doesn't want to try to mess around with it!
Of course, everyone needs to be optimally hydrated so the blood is not 'sludgy'. We've all heard what can happen on an airplane when we don't get enough to drink and can't move around much...blood clots! We also know that children are more vulnerable to dehydration, especially with vomiting, etc.
Dr. Riddick was an industrial chemist and engineer who thought it would be cool to combine the Zeta potential idea (of colloidal chemistry) with human physiology. (no medical degree!) It seems he invented and was selling some kind of device to test it in the body, which sounds weird. We've learned a lot more about the cause of heart attacks and strokes since the 1960s. It's mainstream, now, to try to manipulate a person's diet and lifestyle to lower cholesterol and other markers for these diseases. It's not as simple as just lowering cholesterol and, yes, we have more to learn about the causes of heart disease, etc.
Trying to mix all this up with vaccines and their alleged dangers is far-fetched.

I think we are at the point in history where if we want to increase our understanding of medical science, we need to give some of it up, rather than pile up more hemodynamics, or whatever the friggin' hell Dr.S. is doing. We probably need to throw out the whole virus theory thing, or conventional Mendelian genetics, or refine our view of how the CNS works. Maybe the best we can do is go back to conventional Chinese medicine, which makes more sense then you know who. I wish I knew the answer.
Jeffrey M. Reiser M.D.

[/QUOTE]

[d-cat]

d-cat, when I began to learn about these "conspiracy theories" I presented them to a colleague who had worked both in management at Union Carbide and later overseas in the federal government. I fully expected him to laugh at them and was rather surprised by his response. He all but patted me on the head and said in a rather condescending tone, "That's the way the world works. Get used to it."

I do not consider this person to be evil in the sense we think of as evil. He has a long record of working to improve the local community and sees himself as someone dedicated to making the world a better place. At the same time I have overheard him in conversations that I found disturbing. He's a resident of Sebastopol so understand that they walk among us.

These kind of people have to wake up too. I'm told that tyrannical powers have always rounded up and executed those who helped them rise to power - because they have proven themselves corruptible. I just posted an interview with a former KGB agent who defected to the US who says the same thing.
(see How To Brainwash a Nation thread)

Meanwhile, to get back to the original topic of the thread I am posting the following:

As we will see these injections often have an immediate effect on blood chemistry and blood thermodynamics starting with microvascular ischemic changes (2) that sometimes ends in violent convulsive death for infants and young children.

Thanks for the info. btw I heard a father's account of the above in the first couple minutes of this '98 documentary from down under:

Vaccination - The Hidden Truth -
This is the shocking but extremely informative video documentary Vaccination - The Hidden Truth (1998) where fifteen people, including Dr. Viera Scheibner (a PhD researcher), five medical doctors, and other researchers, reveal what is really going on in relation to illness and vaccines. Ironically, the important facts come from orthodox medicine's own peer-reviewed research. With so much government and medical promotion of vaccination for prevention of disease, the video is clearly devoted to presenting the other side of the issue that parents and others are not being told.

Vaccination - The Hidden Truth

The company that holds the most responsibility though is the Eli Lilly Company.

You mean these guys?

Eli Lilly Pays $1.42 Billion for Illegal Marketing of Deadly Drug
Zyprexa causes severe neurological problems in children and can be deadly for the elderly, and it has no proven benefit for either -- but Eli Lilly marketed the antipsychotic to them anyway.
https://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_b...rug-75288.aspx


Marketing Lilly's Phony 'Miracle' Drug Zyprexa
Created to treat schizophrenia, Zyprexa wound up being used on misbehaving kids. How the pharmaceutical industry turned a flawed and dangerous drug into a $16 billion bonanza
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...07/bitter_pill

[d-cat]

Gardasil WARNING! - CNN Report 8.11.8
YouTube - Gardasil WARNING! - CNN Report 8.11.8

CNN: Should parents worry about HPV vaccine?
Should parents worry about HPV vaccine? - CNN.com

CBS: Is HPV Vaccine Safe?
YouTube - Is HPV Vaccine Safe?

Gardasil HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed
YouTube - Gardasil HPV Vaccine Hoax Exposed

Ashley's story
The HPV vaccine: Ashley Ryburn tells her story
Ashley's story : Related : The Rocky Mountain News

[d-cat]

Shocking True Story
news report on vaccines

[d-cat]

Spain withdraws suspect Gardasil batch
Spanish drug regulators have ordered a temporary halt to use of a single batch of Merck & Co’s cervical cancer vaccine Gardasil after two girls became sick after receiving the injection, according to Reuters. The country’s Health Ministry said that vaccines from Gardasil batch NH52670, nearly 80,000 of which have already been distributed, would no longer be administered following the adverse event report by health authorities in Valencia last week...
Spain withdraws suspect Gardasil batch


Wichita Teen Says She's Dying From Vaccine
A Wichita teen and her mother want a popular vaccine taken off the market. Doctors say Gardasil is killing the 16-year-old. The drug is used to prevent the HPV virus which causes cervical cancer. The makers of Gardasil recommend girls and young women ages 9-26 get the vaccine to protect them from the virus that causes cervical cancer. Twenty-eight women have reportedly died from Gardasil...
Wichita Teen Says She's Dying From Vaccine


Gardasil:One Mom's Story (CBS)
YouTube - Gardasil:One Mom's Story


Rat Poison Chemical Found in Ingredient List For HPV Vaccine
Rat Poison Chemical Found in Ingredient List For HPV Vaccine

[Sylph]

I haven't made up my mind about Guardisil, yet, but one thing I am sure of:
Anti-vaccine folks will always find something horrible in the vaccines to focus on...
The 'sodium borate as deadly toxin' is bogus. It's all about the dose! So many things in our natural environments would kill us if greatly multiplied...like arsenic in apricot pits...OK in small doses, deadly in large quantities. Too much iron is bad for us, too, and there are many examples of 'tiny amount: beneficial or OK'.... 'large amount: poison'.
I used the borate powder as a 'natural flea repellent' years ago and it worked. Maybe it damaged my brain and that's why I'm generally pro-vaccine!
Science-Based Medicine » HPV vaccination misinformation and bias in Medscape
David Gorski under Politics and Regulation, Public Health, Science and the Media, Vaccines

Members of the antivaccine movement point to a number of potential perils, including the presence of aluminum in injections. Like many vaccines, Gardasil contains aluminum salts. Each 0.5-mL dose contains approximately 225 μg of aluminum, 9.56 mg of sodium chloride, 0.78 mg of L-histidine, 50 μcg of polysorbate 80, 35 μg of sodium borate, and water.
Oh, no! Toxins! We’re poisoning the children! Won’t you help?!
….let me assure you that anti-vaccine advocates know the significance of mentioning borate (it’s a “roach killer,” don’t you know?) or polysorbate 80, (it’s been linked to infertility in mice–supposedly). Remember my old “toxins” post, and you’ll see how ridiculous these gambits are. For example, the rat study of the effects of polysorbate 80 injected rats with amounts of the chemical that, by body weight, were incredibly high; nowhere near that amount is found in vaccines on a per weight basis. Similarly, I can’t figure out why L-histidine was included in this list. Histidine is an amino acid that’s found in virtually every protein in the body. It’s also an essential amino acid in growing children.

Science-Based Medicine » Toxic myths about vaccines

Of course, this list (ingredients in any vaccine) does contain a number of chemicals that do sound really scary. However, if you remember the pharmacological principle that “the dose makes the poison,” they are much less so. These chemicals are all present at extremely low concentrations in vaccines, certainly not at any dangerous levels. Moreover, some of the fearmongering about such seemingly scary toxins betrays a serious lack of understanding of basic chemistry.

https://www.layscience.net/?q=aggreg...rces/76&page=2
Some basic chemistry-math:

Hmm. While it's (sodium borate) used as an insecticide, Wikipedia doesn't list it being used as a rodenticide. According to Wikipedia (I know - not exactly the world's most accurate of sources, but good enough to counter this kind of sh*t), the median lethal dose in rats (which is probably where the "Rat Poison" line comes from) is 2.66g/kg. So, if, for the sake of argument, we assume a similar figure for humans… Let's take a ten stone human being. That's about 63.5kg. The lethal dose would therefore be (63.5 * 2.66g) - about 169 grams. Getting on for half a pound.

How much is there in a Gardasil injection? Well, a Gardasil dose is 0.5ml. If we consider the vaccine to have the same density as water, that's a total mass of 0.5 grams. The Gardasil leaflet doesn't list the actual mass of sodium borate, but it does list the mass of other ingredients up to 20 micrograms, so we can assume that the amount of sodium borate is less than 20 micrograms. (In fact it's likely to be trace, but I'm giving the nutters the benefit of the doubt here). 20 micrograms. 0.00002 grams. Or, at maximum, about one eight-and-a-half-millionth of a lethal dose - probably far less.

[OrchardDweller]

ATTENTION: ZENO, BRAGGI, SYLPH

here are some recent news stories about vaccines which you promoted here on Wacco:

Finland suspends swine flu vaccines after neurological damage to children*emerges
https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/201...ldren-emerges/

Narcolepsy diagnosed in 41 children vaccinated for H1N1 last year
https://www.hs.fi/english/article/Na.../1135262379639

Flu vaccination ban goes national after fever, convulsions in children
https://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/f...0423-tglp.html

Side effects of flu vaccine warned of
https://www.koreaherald.com/national...20100827000668

India halt vaccine programmes after the deaths of four children
https://www.weeklyblitz.net/962/indi...ter-the-deaths

Twins die minutes after measles vaccination
https://www.indianexpress.com/news/t...nation/682747/

Polio from vaccine: India confirms two cases
https://www.indianexpress.com/news/P...o-cases/475202

Vaccine scare in Ukraine threatens health
https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2987591...h-health_care/

[Braggi]

ATTENTION: ZENO, BRAGGI, SYLPH

here are some recent news stories about vaccines which you promoted here on Wacco:

I won't read those articles because it's pointless to attempt teaching science here on Wacco. I give up. Those headlines are not data, of course, and I can bet the articles don't contain any either. It's typical for someone who doesn't understand science or statistics to post a long list of links instead of actually posting the important data from an article. I've read many such links and I'm rarely, if ever, taught anything.

Four children died? Out of how many? What killed them? How many children who were not vaccinated died of the same causes? Was there any cause and effect or was there not? Was the vaccination program stopped because cause and effect was established? ... or was the more likely cause mass hysteria by an ignorant population that doesn't understand the difference? Witch hunting goes on. It's just that good medicine is now so often playing the part of the witchcraft and good doctors and pharmaceutical companies the parts of the witches.

So hang the witches. Let your children die. Darwin rules.

-Jeff

[OrchardDweller]

Braggi

You owe the people here at Wacco an apology.

You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...5709#post95709

I still don't think you fool many people. It's getting so obvious.

[Hotspring 44]

Braggi

You owe the people here at Wacco an apology.

Hmmm, so I got curious...

You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.

...So I kept reading...

...Then I went to the link provided & got here:... https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?41878-There-s-a-Revolution-going-on!&p=95709#post95709

...That post (written by d-cat) had a link that used this URL: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...html#post71553

{RE:} (

I still don't think you fool many people. It's getting so obvious.

)

...even though it seemed to me to be off-topic I tried it anyway.

It went to a “page that said:

“Not Found The requested URL /forums/waccotalk/37657-al-gore-global-warming-agenda-4.html was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

...So as of yet, I do not think you (OrchardDweller) owe any apologies.
I also (based on this thread as of yet); do not think you have adequately made your case for Braggi to make any apologies either....

...However it would be interesting to hear (read) your explanation of exactly what you were trying to convey...

...Anyway, back to the actual topic: Read (the) below article by Benjamin Radford Thu Jan 6, 2011 08:28 AM ET;

Vaccine-Autism Doctor Accused of 'Deliberate Fraud' An infamous 1998 medical journal report by Andrew Wakefield, the doctor whose research sparked international concern over whether or not childhood vaccines cause autism, "was based not on bad science but on a deliberate fraud," according to Dr. Fiona Godlee, editor in chief of BMJ, formerly known as the British Medical Journal. The statement appeared in an editorial on BMJ’s Web site. Wakefield had previously been found guilty by a British panel of acting unethically in his research on autism. Wakefield was the lead author a small-scale 1998 case report published in The Lancet that suggested a link between vaccines and the onset of childhood autism. The study was immediately seized upon by anti-vaccination advocates, including actress and model Jenny McCarthy. SEE ALSO: Jenny McCarthy Dismisses Pediatrics Study on Autism In January, the General Medical Council (GMC) concluded that Wakefield participated in "dishonesty and misleading conduct" while he conducted the research. The Lancet reviewed his original study and issued a complete retraction: "It has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield et al. are incorrect ... in particular, the claims in the original paper that children were 'consecutively referred' and that investigations were 'approved' by the local ethics committee have been proven to be false. Therefore we fully retract this paper from the published record." Dr. Godlee said the BMJ and investigator Brian Deer uncovered "clear evidence of falsification" of Wakefield’s data. Godlee's editorial states that "Wakefield altered numerous facts about the patients' medical histories in order to support his claim to have identified a new syndrome; how his institution, the Royal Free Hospital and Medical School in London, supported him as he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain; and how key players failed to investigate thoroughly in the public interest when Deer first raised his concerns." SEE ALSO: Autism Linked to Dozens of Genetic Mutations Dr. Wakefield's research has been questioned for years, and the ethics violations are only the latest nail in the coffin for the claim that vaccines cause autism; several large-scale studies have found no evidence of any link. Still, the anti-vaccination movement will march on despite the fact that the only scientific research that supports their position was conducted by a discredited, unethical researcher. As Godlee noted, "perhaps as important as the scare's effect on infectious disease is the energy, emotion, and money that have been diverted away from efforts to understand the real causes of autism and how to help children and families who live with it."

...And finally, I suggest that we consider this thread topic as it stands on its own without going so seemingly off-topic to ‘prove’ someone “wrong” just to have such an unproductive argument.

[podfish]

Braggi

You owe the people here at Wacco an apology.

You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?41878-There-s-a-Revolution-going-on!&p=95709#post95709

I still don't think you fool many people. It's getting so obvious.

??? por que?
something he said about knowing what's in bills being voted on?? I'm confused....

[sharingwisdom]

https://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/12...or-big-pharma/
Most people don’t realize that Dr. Wakefield is a ‘pro-vaccine’ doctor who should get credit for acting as a professional, NO MATTER THE COST. This so-called ‘revelation’ by lame stream media’s very own ‘Mail on-line’ (a corporate / state media giant in the UK) is really NO revelation of facts what-so-ever.

https://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/02...ice-eddy-case/
The corporate media is having a ‘field day’ with The General Medical Council’s ‘ruling’ that Dr. Wakefield fudged data on the connection between vaccines and autism. What corporate media doesn’t inform the general public on what THEY call a “court decision” is that the General Medical Council IS NOT A COURT OF LAW. As Barbra Loe Fisher accurately describes this so-called court:

“The General Medical Council does not operate a legal court of law; it is rather a medical court of opinion, where doctors can sanction other doctors and, in effect, hang their own.”

https://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2010/05...nt-listen-too/
It becomes crystal clear WHY the main stream media doesn’t want to ‘allow’ him to tell his side of the story. The interviews go FAR BEYOND the kangaroo court findings. Dr. Wakefield seems very confident the professional ‘which haunt’ against him is going to backfire in a very big way. He says the independent research done outside of his work confirms what he has been saying all along and the ‘claim’ his finding “can’t be replicated” WILL BE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD. Also, the ’12 children experimented on’ accusation is also going to blow up in the faces of the establishment that COOKED THAT ‘CLAIM’ UP as well.
His book "Callous Disregard: Autism and Vaccines: The Truth Behind a Tragedy" should be read as well to get the other side of Dr. Wakefield's story before condemning the man.

Dr. Wakefield has held his first interviews since the UK smear campaign and is now clear and free to tell HIS SIDE OF THE STORY. Take a look at this interview after he was allowed to discuss what happened. https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...interview.aspx [full transcription https://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Ex...wWakefield.pdf ]

Dr. Wakefield stated quite clearly that he had been ‘vindicated’ many times over BEFORE his own personal ‘Medical Inquisition’ (and by the lame stream corporate media) had crucified him and his research. Dr. Wakefield made it quite clear in his interview with Dr. Mercola that MANY universities / researchers verified the so-called controversial research he had done and, IN TIME, the public would become aware of what THE MEDICAL / SCIENCE COMMUNITIES ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE LINK. The reason why universities and researchers DO NOT like to advertise that their studies confirm Dr. Wakefield’s is that they will have their funding yanked at minimum or be ‘Wakefielded’ themselves. What this all means is the very establishment that set out to hang Dr. Wakefield has been essentially lying to the public at the expense of Dr. Wakefield AND all those affected by vaccine damage. That’s a ‘revelation’ that really wouldn’t surprise too many people in this day and age.

Hmmm, so I got curious...

...So I kept reading...

...Then I went to the link provided & got here:... https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?41878-There-s-a-Revolution-going-on!&p=95709#post95709

...That post (written by d-cat) had a link that used this URL: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...html#post71553

{RE:} ()

...even though it seemed to me to be off-topic I tried it anyway.

It went to a “page that said:

“Not Found The requested URL /forums/waccotalk/37657-al-gore-global-warming-agenda-4.html was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

...So as of yet, I do not think you (OrchardDweller) owe any apologies.
I also (based on this thread as of yet); do not think you have adequately made your case for Braggi to make any apologies either....

...However it would be interesting to hear (read) your explanation of exactly what you were trying to convey...

...Anyway, back to the actual topic: Read (the) below article by Benjamin Radford Thu Jan 6, 2011 08:28 AM ET;

Vaccine-Autism Doctor Accused of 'Deliberate Fraud' An infamous 1998 medical journal report by Andrew Wakefield, the doctor whose research sparked international concern over whether or not childhood vaccines cause autism, "was based not on bad science but on a deliberate fraud," according to Dr. Fiona Godlee, editor in chief of BMJ, formerly known as the British Medical Journal. The statement appeared in an editorial on BMJ’s Web site. Wakefield had previously been found guilty by a British panel of acting unethically in his research on autism. Wakefield was the lead author a small-scale 1998 case report published in The Lancet that suggested a link between vaccines and the onset of childhood autism. The study was immediately seized upon by anti-vaccination advocates, including actress and model Jenny McCarthy. SEE ALSO: Jenny McCarthy Dismisses Pediatrics Study on Autism In January, the General Medical Council (GMC) concluded that Wakefield participated in "dishonesty and misleading conduct" while he conducted the research. The Lancet reviewed his original study and issued a complete retraction: "It has become clear that several elements of the 1998 paper by Wakefield et al. are incorrect ... in particular, the claims in the original paper that children were 'consecutively referred' and that investigations were 'approved' by the local ethics committee have been proven to be false. Therefore we fully retract this paper from the published record." Dr. Godlee said the BMJ and investigator Brian Deer uncovered "clear evidence of falsification" of Wakefield’s data. Godlee's editorial states that "Wakefield altered numerous facts about the patients' medical histories in order to support his claim to have identified a new syndrome; how his institution, the Royal Free Hospital and Medical School in London, supported him as he sought to exploit the ensuing MMR scare for financial gain; and how key players failed to investigate thoroughly in the public interest when Deer first raised his concerns." SEE ALSO: Autism Linked to Dozens of Genetic Mutations Dr. Wakefield's research has been questioned for years, and the ethics violations are only the latest nail in the coffin for the claim that vaccines cause autism; several large-scale studies have found no evidence of any link. Still, the anti-vaccination movement will march on despite the fact that the only scientific research that supports their position was conducted by a discredited, unethical researcher. As Godlee noted, "perhaps as important as the scare's effect on infectious disease is the energy, emotion, and money that have been diverted away from efforts to understand the real causes of autism and how to help children and families who live with it."

...And finally, I suggest that we consider this thread topic as it stands on its own without going so seemingly off-topic to ‘prove’ someone “wrong” just to have such an unproductive argument.

[Hotspring 44]

...What corporate media doesn’t inform the general public on what THEY call a “court decision” is that the General Medical Council IS NOT A COURT OF LAW. As Barbra Loe Fisher accurately describes this so-called court:

“The General Medical Council does not operate a legal court of law; it is rather a medical court of opinion, where doctors can sanction other doctors and, in effect, hang their own.”

I do notice a couple of things: 1- The medical boards' are rather closed-minded here in the United States and parts of Europe.
2- Corporate media is bought-off by the highest bidders and advertisers, and is sometimes outright owned in such a manner that it would be counterproductive for them financially to show themselves or their shareholders in a bad light... ...Truth? They can't handle the truth!... ...I'm remembering Jack Nicholson in a movie. I don't remember the name of the movie. But it had to do with the mistreatment and/or murder of a lower ranking military personnel.

In the US I believe the medical board here is undoubtedly manipulated (infiltrated, and/or intimidated, and/or threatened and/or, etc.) in major ways and is more likely to actually be part of and at least, probably in concert and most definitely if (the medical board; is) not either one of those things, it is most certainly bought-off, so to speak, by the large pharmaceutical companies ET all, and when that doesn't work or isn't going fast enough for their liking; somebody somewhere gets pressured by a government official or 2 whom in effect end up coercing the Doctors.
I do not disagree with the statement; “The General Medical Council does not operate a legal court of law"... ...(etc).

...Wakefield seems very confident the professional ‘which haunt’ against him is going to backfire in a very big way. He says the independent research done outside of his work confirms what he has been saying all along and the ‘claim’ his finding “can’t be replicated” WILL BE EXPOSED AS A FRAUD. Also, the ’12 children experimented on’ accusation is also going to blow up in the faces of the establishment that COOKED THAT ‘CLAIM’ UP as well.

Because of how the system works; that will probably take years if not decades to prove one way or the other.
Either way, most we as laypersons (I am speaking for myself here, I am not so sure about everybody else here) can do is express our (laypersons) anecdotal and sometimes somewhat biased towards one side or the other; opinions'.

At best like you just did; we can make predictions (odds, anecdotal, and/or opinion based), some of our predictions will and some will not end-up becoming reality in the future.

His book "Callous Disregard: Autism and Vaccines: The Truth Behind a Tragedy" should be read as well to get the other side of Dr. Wakefield's story before condemning the man.

There may be a misunderstanding here.
I am not condemning the man at all, although it may appear that way considering my previous post on this thread.
I had just posted an article that was directly related to this thread title that came out the day I posted it and it was more on-topic than the essence of the post I was replying to; In regards to OrchardDweller’s post which was directed at Braggi; which in part stated: “You owe the people here at Wacco an apology. You stated you would apologize about being wrong so often if they were pointed out.”

This debate regarding autism having a direct link to vaccines will obviously go on for quite a while or at least the continuation of comparative arguments, assessments etc. regarding the brain and the conditions in the bowel having some sort of a link to the situation that one of the links you supplied that had in it the document form (.pdf) on a web page where it went to regarding Andrew Wakefield's interview titled: “A Special Interview with Dr. Andrew Wakefield By Dr. Mercola” (https://mercola.fileburst.com/PDF/Ex...wWakefield.pdf) is quite informative , even to a layperson.

...What this all means is the very establishment that set out to hang Dr. Wakefield has been essentially lying to the public at the expense of Dr. Wakefield AND all those affected by vaccine damage. That’s a ‘revelation’ that really wouldn’t surprise too many people in this day and age.

I basically do agree with the gist of that statement.
The only prediction (based on the obvious; ...odds) I am going to make at this point in time is that this debate will continue.

[podfish]

...In the US I believe the medical board here is undoubtedly manipulated... it is most certainly bought-off, so to speak, by the large pharmaceutical companies...

here's commentary from the JREF site, similarly skeptical about the "medical board"'s motivations - but drawing an entirely different conclusion:

Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the author of the paper in the Lancet medical journal which started the brouhaha, had his medical license revoked in May of 2010 when it became clear that he had misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all of the dozen patients whose cases formed the basis of the study. Five of them had already shown developmental problems before they received the vaccine, and three of them never had autism at all. This was a purposeful fraud, and we now know – thanks to the new BMJ report that looked into it – that Wakefield received more than £435,000 pounds (US$675,000) paid to him by a UK law firm that intended to sue vaccine manufacturers. This was a serious conflict of interest that Wakefield failed to disclose in his article. And, obviously, the intent of that law firm must now be brought up for examination, as well. The damage to public health systems around the world, happily fueled by biased media reporting and ineffectual response from government agencies, researchers, and journals, panicked many parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children being inoculated against measles, mumps and rubella.
In the USA, the MMR [measles, mumps, rubella] combination vaccine was introduced in 1971, and immediately proved highly effective. Then the fraudulent Lancet “research” paper was published in 1998, and subsequently in 2008 the US Center for Disease Control reported more cases of measles than in any other year since 1997. More than 90 percent of those who were found to be infected had not been vaccinated, or their vaccination status was unknown. Since the MMR is such a dependable medication, that status was very probably, “unvaccinated.” This was a direct result of Wakefield's paper.

The medical profession itself was also slow to react; taking a respected MD to task for possible fraud, is not easily done in the academic world. And as the BMJ reported:
…perhaps as important as the scare's effect on infectious disease is the energy, emotion and money that have been diverted away from efforts to understand the real causes of autism and how to help children and families who live with it.
Wakefield has been unable to reproduce his results, as have other independent researchers who tried. The Lancet dragged its feet, too; they only officially -- and reluctantly -- withdrew the Wakefield paper last February.

[sharingwisdom]

So I guess that you didn't listen to Dr. Wakefield's account and decided that James Randi, a stage magician, who has been known to twist things, https://www.mind-energy.net/archives...challenge.html make claims, and not follow up, to be the telling the truth. I wonder who funds his organization. Perhaps a magician is better at trickery than a Doctor? Go figure

here's commentary from the JREF site, similarly skeptical about the "medical board"'s motivations - but drawing an entirely different conclusion:
[/FONT]

[podfish]

So I guess that you didn't listen to Dr. Wakefield's account and decided that James Randi, a stage magician, who has been known to twist things, https://www.mind-energy.net/archives...challenge.html make claims, and not follow up, to be the telling the truth. I wonder who funds his organization. Perhaps a magician is better at trickery than a Doctor? Go figure

Note that I'm not appealing to authority - there's no "Randi says..." in my excerpt. There's not much in the way of subjective editorialization in it. The last paragraph makes a claim, though:

The medical profession itself was also slow to react; taking a respected MD to task for possible fraud, is not easily done in the academic world

but it's pretty much like observing that a bear's catholic... er, the pope, I mean. Has anyone ever suggested that the medical establishment does any effective self-policing at all??

[podfish]

https://www.mind-energy.net

by the way, MindEnergy.net as a refutation? really?? they seem kinda sketchy. They seem pretty soft & fuzzy, at least to a casual eye; pretty much a site for the believers. If they're trying to offer rebuttals or challenge critics, they'd be better served to reach a bit farther afield for experts. Most of the skeptics' sites do a bit better job - though they too get a lot of hobbyist-grade writing and analysis as well.

[Braggi]

... Has anyone ever suggested that the medical establishment does any effective self-policing at all??

Perhaps it does a lot more than you realize. There are boards in every state for every specialty. Look up their lists of discipline actions sometime. They should be searchable on the web. And yes, most of the time "peer-review" actually does something. When a quack article slips through, like one by Deepak Chopra did a few years ago, it's a huge scandal and requires months of rebuttal and argument and sometimes years before the article is retracted.

-Jeff

[Dynamique]

The really sad part about this story is that there is a connection between environmentally-induced autism (as opposed to the inborn variety, which remains rare) and vaccines, although it may not be the vaccines themselves that is to blame. The culprit is the mercury-based preservative (thimerosal) and some other factors such as administering them when the child is sick, which sends the immune system into a tizzy.

In his excellent book Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma and Allergies, Dr. Kenneth Bock has a discussion of his observations from his practice dealing with the "4-As" as well as recommendations for vaccinating wisely.

Anyone who is interested in these issues should read this book!

ATTENTION: ZENO, BRAGGI, SYLPH

here are some recent news stories about vaccines which you promoted here on Wacco:
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