Get PG&E to let us use Google PowerMeter to save energy

[battindown]

Seems the PG&E "smart"Meters are here to stay. As it turns out, there may be a silver lining to this issue. IF PG&E IS SERIOUS ABOUT REDUCING ENERGY CONSUMPTION, then the corporation should allow us, the consumers, to use Google PowerMeter which would allow us the necessary knowledge to make significant energy usage reductions.

"Google PowerMeter is a free energy monitoring tool that helps you save energy and money. Using energy information provided by utility smart meters and energy monitoring devices, Google PowerMeter enables you to view your home's energy consumption from anywhere online."

See: https://www.google.com/powermeter/about/index.html

San Diego Gas & Electric is already partnering with Google as well as public utility companies around the globe.

This could be an important step in Sonoma County's Energy 2020 Program.

[nicofrog]

and would probably allow anyone else to view your power usage

and your sexual preferences
and your shopping habits
and who visits you home and when
and who you phone,e mail,fax etc
what you watch on tv cd's you play,dvd's you watch

[edie]

and would probably allow anyone else to view your power usage

and your sexual preferences
and your shopping habits
and who visits you home and when
and who you phone,e mail,fax etc what you watch on tv cd's you play,dvd's you watch

"THEY" can do that already if anybody ever should be interested in all your stuff and probably more then that. Just sign up with Wikileaks and you are closer on the list...

[battindown]

Knights Temper
Elders of Zion
Secret Communists living amongst us
The XXXX assassinated JFK
Now it's Smart Meters

How boring life would be without conspiracy theories

I know that they are watching you and that they are coming to get you.....

Remember, people who have nothing to hide, have nothing to hide.

[Sabrina]

Do you work for PG & E, Battindown? Because PG&E is promoting the SAME thing with promoting smart meters. You'll end up having to buy all kinds of new appliances designed to go with your smart meter and all hooked to computer through wireless hackable technology, so that there is even MORE radiation in your home, in addition to less privacy. By the way, PG & E says there is no choice in the matter of dumb [smart]meters, but that is not the case so far. Check: https://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com/

Seems the PG&E "smart"Meters are here to stay. As it turns out, there may be a silver lining to this issue. IF PG&E IS SERIOUS ABOUT REDUCING ENERGY CONSUMPTION, then the corporation should allow us, the consumers, to use Google PowerMeter which would allow us the necessary knowledge to make significant energy usage reductions.

"Google PowerMeter is a free energy monitoring tool that helps you save energy and money. Using energy information provided by utility smart meters and energy monitoring devices, Google PowerMeter enables you to view your home's energy consumption from anywhere online."

See: https://www.google.com/powermeter/about/index.html

San Diego Gas & Electric is already partnering with Google as well as public utility companies around the globe.

This could be an important step in Sonoma County's Energy 2020 Program.

[battindown]

No Sabrina, I don't work for PG&E. I am an independent energy conservation and Interior Air Quality consultant workings with clients to conserve energy and carbon emissions, improve building comfort and health, while saving money by optimizing energy use.

If you look at the following link, IMHO you will see why I suggested PG&E should allow us to use Google Power Meter.

https://www.google.com/powermeter/about/index.html

[podfish]

Remember, people who have nothing to hide, have nothing to hide.

then why do bedrooms and bathrooms have doors? Privacy is a basic human desire, if not need. It's a bit too glib to trot out that cliche. That being said, though - this specific intrusion is pretty benign. The changes in technology that people think of as "the internet" are so pervasive and so revolutionary that what used to be considered private information is now public. Plus, not only is it public but it's being exploited in a variety of ways. It's only slowly becoming visible to most, and people latch on to the oddest facets of it to worry about. But the new economic models of the future will be based on taking advantage of lots of personal information about all of us. Those doing it (somewhat) sincerely claim it's benign. Isn't it better to avoid ads for powerboats when you're a sedentary dog lover? isn't it better that we will be able to offer you cheaper electricity by integrating your appliances and your use patterns into the whole power network? That's the argument, anyway, and it's happening volo/nolo.

[battindown]

I enjoyed the reply from Podfish. I'm sure such an eloquent person knows that issues of personal privacy are largely societally determined. Having lived most of my adult life out of the States, I find many, if not most, of us Americans to be prudish about letting others see who we rally are. AND you are right, marketers want to know it all!

But, what does that have to do with trying to reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions?

We are in serious danger of making earth unsustainable for humans. Not all living things have died off in either of the previous great extinctions. ONLY, all higher life forms, all the way down to corals. As a father, I am vested in doing all I can to leave a living world for my progeny. I hope you are too. If so, let's use what tools we have to stop killing the future of our, sadly flawed, species.

Sonoma county is leading the most polluting nation on earth in a brave attempt to reduce fossil fuel consumption. Programs like Sonoma County Energy Indigence Program and our 1020 Initiative are being watched by the whole country. If we can prove that we can cost effectively reduce carbon emissions and live in healthier and more comfortable homes and work places, maybe others will follow.

I doubt, but am not 100% certain, that "smart meters" are anything but useful tools for measuring energy consumption at various times. However, if I can understand how to reduce energy use at peek use times, I can reduce the need for more power plants using carbon emitting non-renewables. And that just might be a very, very good thing to do.

then why do bedrooms and bathrooms have doors? Privacy is a basic human desire, if not need. It's a bit too glib to trot out that cliche. That being said, though - this specific intrusion is pretty benign. The changes in technology that people think of as "the internet" are so pervasive and so revolutionary that what used to be considered private information is now public. Plus, not only is it public but it's being exploited in a variety of ways. It's only slowly becoming visible to most, and people latch on to the oddest facets of it to worry about. But the new economic models of the future will be based on taking advantage of lots of personal information about all of us. Those doing it (somewhat) sincerely claim it's benign. Isn't it better to avoid ads for powerboats when you're a sedentary dog lover? isn't it better that we will be able to offer you cheaper electricity by integrating your appliances and your use patterns into the whole power network? That's the argument, anyway, and it's happening volo/nolo.

[podfish]

I enjoyed the reply from Podfish. ... But, what does that have to do with trying to reduce energy consumption and carbon emissions? ... We are in serious danger of making earth unsustainable for humans.... .

thanks for the kind words. Actually, I'm not attempting to make a case against the Google meters, or for that matter am I trying to get the genie back in the bottle. You're right, these are potentially useful tools. My broader point is that we are indeed losing a lot of the privacy we traditionally had and that most people are picking the wrong battles to fight. It's lost, help shape the resultant changes to the benefit of our world rather than randomly strike back! ... much more of this and the thread would be thoroughly hijacked, though. But there's been other discussions along these lines on this site.

[Barry]

...
I doubt, but am not 100% certain, that "smart meters" are anything but useful tools for measuring energy consumption at various times. However, if I can understand how to reduce energy use at peek use times, I can reduce the need for more power plants using carbon emitting non-renewables. And that just might be a very, very good thing to do.

Indeed! The idea behind SmartMeters is that not only can You know how/when to reduce demand at peak times, PG&E can remotely reduce your "demand" by reducing your voltage x%. (Perhaps someone can add some more precise explanation here) That is one of the "scary" things about SmartMeters. Another is that they need to do something on "your" property to install it.

It's a classic conflict of individual autonomy vs coordinating together for a larger public goal. That's difficult enough, but it is further complicated by the supposedly benign public entity doing the coordinating (PG&E) is not so benign nor truthful, and has its own agenda that is not aligned with the public interest. I think this aspect of smartmeters is more important than the RF concerns. If PG&E were really trustworthy, I think this is a good example of society working together. After all, we are all in this sinking boat together...and we are all one.

[spam1]

Indeed! The idea behind SmartMeters is that not only can You know how/when to reduce demand at peak times, PG&E can remotely reduce your "demand" by reducing your voltage x%. (Perhaps someone can add some more precise explanation here) That is one of the "scary" things about SmartMeters. Another is that they need to do something on "your" property to install it.

The National Electric Code (NEC) sets strong limits on minimum voltage delivered to your service, as described here:
https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pd..._tolerance.pdf

The smart grid can be helped by smart meters in 2 ways: 1) The utility can tell -exactly- where the load is coming from and thus switch the grid (it is a grid, with lots of cross ties) to flow current to where it is needed (you pay for wattage, which is voltage times current, but the utility must supply constant voltage so only the current draw changes with usage) . This is one of the ways they can avoid adding more lines to get the required capacity; it does mean that they will be running closer to the edge of the reliability but the other option is running more high-tension lines.
2) I've heard but not seen that there are remote devices to turn off high-usage items such as air-conditioners. Utilities offer a discounted rate if you allow the utility to turn off that appliance during a high-demand period. Thus, if they can reduce the load at these times, they don't need to fire up the reserve power stations almost all (like more than 99%) of which are natural gas powered. These reserve stations are the highest cost producers of power (obviously, if they weren't, they'd turn off other stations and use these) so this can be a big savings for the utility.

So, the smart grid is real, true way of reducing the need for more power lines, more power stations, and the use of peaking stations.

On the other hand, they can really tell how you are using power, and whether that is good or not depends upon your situation I suppose.

In this way