What Is Your Interpretation Of The Noise Ordinance Regarding Barking?

[Homie]

Forestville, CA is the West coast version of "Deliverance". Attemting to have a win/win, grown-up conversation with a grown-up is simply put, like, putting a square peg in a round hole. Not "everybody is this challenging, but accumulatively, the collective mind-set is not progressive. This is not a put-down, just my personal experience. It is what it is.

Here we are in downtown Forestville. Behind El Molino Pharmacy.

Dogs barking incessantly, for hours, but when spoken to owner became hostile and said our music bothers her. Tit for Tat. Nothing we can do. I tell the person it bothers the most to keep the log and record. I have been threatened repeatedly by dog owners that defend their dog chasing my ducks and chickens. My emus have been attacked by neighbor dogs and the owner was yelled at me for having them. It does give dog owners a bad name. Do you get a dog just to keep it in the back yard? Dogs in Europe are socialized better than here so they can go out in public....Oh well. What can I say. Currently not my biggest worry.

[David MySky]

Alexia,

I have a digital recorder that records up to 7 hours. I could leave it on a tripod and set it to record the howling curs. I live not far from Mirabel.

David

[Shandi]

How will you put bark collars on "their" dogs?

Thank you. I've read varying reviews of these and have been hesitant, but the companies stay in business so it must work under some conditions. On bark collars, I know the pet stores have a 30 day try it out policy and no questions asked returns if they don't work, maybe these too. I'll try it.

[Alex]

How will you put bark collars on "their" dogs?

I was first referring to the suggestion about getting an 'ultrasonic/sonic barker breaker' that you aim at the dogs from your fence, but saying it might also be available on a 30-day return like bark collars are.

[Alex]

I have a digital recorder that records up to 7 hours. I could leave it on a tripod and set it to record the howling curs. I live not far from Mirabel.

You're a supersweetheart, thank you, I will contact you. It's the next step I have to take for Animal Control to be able to act further. I've been researching home security audio/video recorders. Have to work around the rain and freeze issues.

[Roland Jacopetti]

Arf! Arf! rrrrrrrr! rrrrrrr! whine, whimper... Arf! (all sotto voce)
(Translation: Dogs shouldn't bark so loud! It makes me mad! Shut up!)

Signed,

Dexter Jacopetti
(Affenpinscher-Havanese Mix (and proud!)

Alexia,

I have a digital recorder that records up to 7 hours. I could leave it on a tripod and set it to record the howling curs. I live not far from Mirabel.

David

[msl]

I've been pretty busy, but have delved into this a bit more.
What I'd like to know is: Just what IS the ordinance? Where can one find a copy of it?
I found a site online that says I can call animal control and that they should send a letter and recommendations to the owner.
Has anyone done this? I've kind of been led to believe that there needs to be at least two people who are affected by the dog's barking and willing to file a formal complaint.
Can anyone tell me about their personal positive experience with trying to rectify a situation like this?
I do have to say that, so far, this thread has provided some good suggestions. I'd love to get the barking dog alarm/stopper, but right now, I can't afford that.

You're a supersweetheart, thank you, I will contact you. It's the next step I have to take for Animal Control to be able to act further. I've been researching home security audio/video recorders. Have to work around the rain and freeze issues.

[Peace Voyager]

Are you in the County? Sorry no noise ordinance yet. Suggest you ask the SC BOS for one.

Sebastopol has one; ask Mary the City Clerk for a copy.

I've been pretty busy, but have delved into this a bit more.
What I'd like to know is: Just what IS the ordinance? Where can one find a copy of it?
I found a site online that says I can call animal control and that they should send a letter and recommendations to the owner.
Has anyone done this? I've kind of been led to believe that there needs to be at least two people who are affected by the dog's barking and willing to file a formal complaint.
Can anyone tell me about their personal positive experience with trying to rectify a situation like this?
I do have to say that, so far, this thread has provided some good suggestions. I'd love to get the barking dog alarm/stopper, but right now, I can't afford that.

[Alex]

Are you in the County? Sorry no noise ordinance yet....

Of course there is an animal related noise ordinance especially in a heavily agricultural county.
The Sonoma County Ordinance regarding animal noise is Section 5-126 but has lots of loopholes for interpretation.

Sec. 5-126. - Public nuisances prohibited.
(a) No owner of any animal shall do any of the following:

(1) Permit such animal to obstruct the reasonable and comfortable use of property in any neighborhood or community by chasing vehicles, molesting passersby, barking, howling or making other noise;

(2) Permit such animal to damage or trespass on public or private property;

(3) Permit unsanitary conditions to exist on the premises where such animal is kept which would cause odors, attract flies or vermin, or which would be otherwise injurious to the public health, offensive to the senses, or an obstruction to the free use of property so as to interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of life or property by members of the neighborhood or community or any considerable number of other persons;

(4) Maintain a dangerous animal in a manner that creates a significant threat to the public health, safety and welfare.

(b) Any violation of this section is hereby declared to be a public nuisance.

(c) Whenever the director or any animal regulation officer has reasonable cause to believe that a public nuisance as defined in this section exists, the director may conduct an investigation or the alleged nuisance. Whenever it is affirmed in writing by two (2) or more persons residing in separate residences or regularly employed in the neighborhood that a public nuisance as defined in this section exists, the director shall investigate the alleged nuisance, provided, however, that where there is only one (1) person residing or regularly employed within three hundred feet (300′) of the alleged public nuisance, written affirmation of only that one (1) person shall be required for the director to investigate the alleged nuisance. If, upon investigation, the director determines that a public nuisance exists, the director may issue an order to the owner of the offending animal directing that such nuisance be abated. In the event that the owner does not comply with the abatement order, the director may immediately refer the matter to the district attorney for prosecution of the public nuisance.

(d) Any person may maintain an action under Civil Code section 3493 for compliance with the requirements of this section.

(e) Notwithstanding any of the preceding, no animal which is part of an agricultural operation exempt from being or becoming a nuisance by Civil Code section 3482.5 shall be deemed to be a public nuisance under this section, provided such animal is owned and kept in compliance with this chapter and state law.

[Connubial Warthog]

Of course, but you have be able to prove it. Making a recording, complaining to Animal Control etc. it's a slow process. I know a guy who has been reasonably successful, but in doing so, has also alienated most of his neighbors. He's got neighbors whose dogs howl, bark and cry all day. Then when the owners come home the animals stop, and consequently all his neighbors think he's crazy. That's why you must record it. He has put a lot of time into trying to make these dog owners aware of the problem while working at home 50 hours a week.

Today, I was awakened at around 6:30 by at least two barking dogs, joined in by more later. They proceeded to bark until around 8:00. I could've gotten out of bed, set up my recorder, then gotten in my car to drive across the canyon to see where they were coming from, but it was so freaking cold I didn't want to get out of bed! Point being, You can't sit around and expect anything to change. You do have to be inconvenienced. And it takes time out of your life to do it. And then you have to be patient. Its frustrating, because the county doesn't prioritize these things.

Of course there is an animal related noise ordinance especially in a heavily agricultural county.
The Sonoma County Ordinance regarding animal noise is Section 5-126 but has lots of loopholes for interpretation.

Sec. 5-126. - Public nuisances prohibited.
(a) No owner of any animal shall do any of the following:

(1) Permit such animal to obstruct the reasonable and comfortable use of property in any neighborhood or community by chasing vehicles, molesting passersby, barking, howling or making other noise;

....

[Thumpitall]

We live in Sebastopol which does have an ordinance. There is a "kennel" (well it seems like one) near us with 3-4 dogs that bark incessantly. The Sebastopol Police have been responsive and usually send out one of their cadets when we call them. Eventually a very nice woman (Michelle I think) contacted us and the dog owner and this seemed to work for a while. We were told that eventually we would have to produce a formal complaint. So I checked in with neighbors and guess what we got? "I don't want to get involved, the dogs don't bother me".

This was disturbing to say the least and so much for solidarity on that account. I know I will take flak for this, but in our case, female neighbors were the ones who refused to assist us and male neighbors said "Where can I sign". Interesting but true and more than likely situational. I do think that people believe that the Police will tell the neighbor who it was that complained and so some folks don't want to get involved for fear of some sort of retribution.

I expect we probably called the police at least 15 times over a 1-2 year period. Eventually "we" trained the owners to take their dogs in at night although these dogs still bark all day every day. I also think they just got tired of the visits from the police...

So it is a win of sorts because we can at least sleep at night and not hear the dogs.
It is a problem for sure and I do believe the pet owners simply tune it out and rarely consider their neighbors.
T

[Mary C]

Allowing one's dogs to disturb others is a hostile and aggressive act, and attempting to reason with an aggressive, hostile person is usually an exercise in futility. It makes sense that neighbors would hesitate to become involved in a situation that could lead to years of heartache, particularly women who may be concerned about making themselves vulnerable to an aggressive person who lives in close proximity.

A person who cares nothing for his or her neighbor's peace of mind, and further, who doesn't hesitate to hurt pets by leaving them alone, lonely and barking for hours on end, is not likely to be open to a gentle intervention. If all of the neighbors don't unite to effectively address such callous and abusive behavior, they allow evil to flourish. Yes, I said evil. Hurting an animal who counts on you, caring nothing about its suffering, and purposefully causing your fellow human beings to suffer can be interpreted as evil.

I read a beautiful piece on Wacco a few days ago, written by a man who just adopted his first dog at the age of 70+. In a matter of days, he developed an understanding and a sensitivity toward dogs, and he involved his community in loving and caring for his new companion. Now HE would listen to you if you knocked on his door and said, "Your dog is creating unhappiness for me," but I can guarantee that you will never have to knock on his door. This gentleman will not need a neighborhood intervention.

As for the hostile and abusive neighbor whose suffering animals are creating a disturbance, do the most loving thing you can: Refuse to allow this person to continue hurting his animals or his fellow human beings. Don't allow one brave soul to be the sacrificial lamb for the neighborhood, which will have a net result of little or no change, and will deepen the suffering of that brave soul and other neighbors. Don't be cowardly. Do if for the animals if not for you.

I'm loathe to give such direct advice, since we all have to find our own way, but when it comes to animals, children and elders, we have to be willing to step forward and take a risk.

We live in Sebastopol which does have an ordinance. There is a "kennel" (well it seems like one) near us with 3-4 dogs that bark incessantly. The Sebastopol Police have been responsive and usually send out one of their cadets when we call them. Eventually a very nice woman (Michelle I think) contacted us and the dog owner and this seemed to work for a while. We were told that eventually we would have to produce a formal complaint. So I checked in with neighbors and guess what we got? "I don't want to get involved, the dogs don't bother me".

This was disturbing to say the least and so much for solidarity on that account. I know I will take flak for this, but in our case, female neighbors were the ones who refused to assist us and male neighbors said "Where can I sign". Interesting but true and more than likely situational. I do think that people believe that the Police will tell the neighbor who it was that complained and so some folks don't want to get involved for fear of some sort of retribution.

I expect we probably called the police at least 15 times over a 1-2 year period. Eventually "we" trained the owners to take their dogs in at night although these dogs still bark all day every day. I also think they just got tired of the visits from the police...

So it is a win of sorts because we can at least sleep at night and not hear the dogs.
It is a problem for sure and I do believe the pet owners simply tune it out and rarely consider their neighbors.
T

[Connubial Warthog]

Allowing one's dogs to disturb others is a hostile and aggressive act, and attempting to reason with an aggressive, hostile person is usually an exercise in futility....

Sometimes it's not evil, but necessity that places these dogs in confined areas alone throughout the day. By that I mean the owners must go to work to be able to afford to have their home and their animals. In contrast, I'll bet that 70 year old guy is retired. Now don't get me wrong: I'm not defending these dog owners whose pets suffer from loneliness and boredom. Personally, I don't think you should own a dog if you have to leave it unattended most of the day. It's especially annoying for those of us who work at home and have to listen to them bark, whine and cry while the owners are blissfully unaware of their animals suffering. But unfortunately, that's the way things are. People want their dogs, even though they have to leave them at home. I don't think it's fair to the dogs, who are by nature social animals. The truth is, if they could be left to roam freely together, they probably wouldn't bark and cry. But we all know that's never going to happen. Don't know what the answer is, because everyone apparently has to own at least one dog, even if they have to leave it alone 40 hours a week.

[meherc]

Dixon: This "dipshit" you refer to is me. This woman is nuts. She insists I leave my dogs out all night in freezing weather, leave them in the yard during the day to bark constantly, and mistreat them. When she called animal control, they said my dogs looked very well cared for. I never leave them out all night or in the rain or when I am not home. You have no right to call me names when you don't know the whole story. I got home one night at 12:30am. I let the dogs out. They gave one bark to get back in after peeing. She called me exactly 2 minutes after I let them out to harrass me about leaving them out all night in freezing weather.

Animal control checked up on me and the dogs 3 times and said it was physically impossible for my dogs (chihuahuas) to bark as long as she was claiming. I went to every neighbor and asked them if my dogs were bothering them. All of them said no, they never hear them. All of these people have dogs as well. Why she has singled out my dogs, I don't know. There are many dogs who are barking in the neighborhood. Only one person said he'd like to kill me and the dogs and I asked why he had never said anything in 12 years and he said he didn't want to get involved with the meth lab across the street, the drug dealers next door and the crack house next to the meth lab and said that new woman who moved in is the craziest of all of them and he wished she would just stay away from him. There are none of these things going on in the neighborhood.

The animal control person called the police to go pay her a visit and tell her that she is living in the country, not in the city, and dogs bark sometimes, mine were not unusual. He said she is a little nutty and he gets complaints from people who say their neighbors are mistreating their animals because they never see them bring dog food into the house or don't realize that greyhounds are built skinny, it doesn't mean they are being abused.

This woman has called at 3am to say my dogs are waking her up when we are all peacefully snoozing in bed. I did finallly tell her that babies cry, dogs bark sometimes, to get a grip and learn to live in the real world. She wrote a vitriolic letter to me and animal control who told me she was harrassing me and to call the police the next time she called in the middle of the night for inane reasons.

I was very nice when she first came over to complain. I was surprised but agreed to let her put a shock collar on my dogs just to get her to leave me alone. My husband was murdered last year and this nut kept coming over when I was having confidential conversations with lawyers or with my tax clients. I had a friend over once when nutsy came over AGAIN to complain.My friend listened at the window and said it was not my dogs who were barking but the next door ones. So Dixon, I thought you were the logical one. Don't make assumptions when you don't know the whole story. Funny thing, she hasn't called since the police visited her and threatened arrest. The cops always agreed with me, that my dogs were fine and she was the crazy one.

Marilyn Herczog

Alexia, you have bent over backwards giving this inconsiderate dipshit every opportunity to be reasonable, and she has shown herself unwilling to do so. Thus she has created a situation in which your only recourse is force. If I were you, I'd get real clear on what the law is re: times of day/night, etc. and then call the police every single time her dogs violate the law. You might also consider calling the dog owner every time; being awakened in the midddle of the night a few times might spark her self-interest, if not her empathy, which seems to be notably lacking. As she has shown that she can't be reasoned with, you are justified to respond with virtually any level of force necessary to solve the problem, so no need to be reticent anymore.

[Roland Jacopetti]

People, People! Please remember that most people get angrier arguing about their dogs than they do about their children, their political affiliation or their religion.So, to make everyone feel better, I'll tell you a relevant joke:

Two men were walking their dogs. They passed a bar, and one suggested going in for a beer.

"Nah," said the other, "I'm sure they don't allow dogs in this joint."

"Just watch me, and do what I do", said his friend,and walked in.

"Hold on," said the barkeep, "No dogs allowed."

"But it's a seeing-eye dog," the man answered.

"Oh. sorry!", said the barkeep, "Come on in. Can I get your dog a bowl of water? Beautiful shepherd."

So the other man entered with his dog.

"Sorry, pal," said the barkeep, "No dogs."

"But it's a seeing-eye dog," said the man.

"A chihuahua?" said the barkeep.

The man answered, "They gave me a chihuahua?!

[Connubial Warthog]

There are always two sides to every story. I'll make a bet that the truth lies somewhere in between. Dog owners in my experience, tend not to hear their own dogs barking. I can't tell you how many times I have heard dogs barking in my neighborhood while the owners are home and do nothing to stop them. They are simply tuned out and don't notice. What other explanation could there be?

My experience is dog owners tend to feel entitled. That is why they bring them up to trails that explicitly post signs that don't allow dogs. Usually these folks don't even put them on a leash. I saw four today up in the Marin headlands where, by the way, rangers report dogs that come up there confuse coyotes with their scents and cause them to fight with each other with animal deaths as a result of this. There is a reason dogs are banned on certain trails. But I digress...

Point being, while I don't have all the facts, i doubt either side is being entirely objective and thus I'm not necessarily buying this story as presented. I'm not doubting this is the poster's perception of " the facts,", but nobody calls because of one single solitary bark. That doesn't ring true for me.

[Dixon]

Dixon: This "dipshit" you refer to is me.

Well, hello, Marilyn! Small world, LOL!

It's always nice to get at least 2 sides to a story, even if one of them is late arriving to the party.

I only call people things like "dipshit" if they richly deserve it, as did the person described by Alexia in her opening volley on this thread. If what you say is true, that person doesn't exist, but is a figment of Alexia's fevered imagination, because you haven't done those things she attributes to you. If so, you needn't take my "dipshit" comment personally; it was about the (apparently fictional) person described by Alexia, not you. If, on the other hand, Alexia's account is substantially accurate (and I honestly have no idea which of you is right), then "dipshit" fits the situation. So what I'm saying is: If the dipshit fits wear it, and if it doesn't, there's no need to take it as a description of you, because it wasn't aimed at you. Okay? Feel a little better now?

And, by way of clarification of a general principle: anything I say can be wrong or based on misinformation at any time. I would never convict anybody on the basis of only one side of a story, but I don't mind making comments in response to what someone says on the assumption that what they said was true. If it wasn't (as often turns out to be the case), then my comments which were appropriate to the described situation may not be appropriate to the real one. No biggie; I'm always correctable.

[Dixon]

Roland, you have told one of my two favorite "blind guy and dog" jokes (both of which made my blind friend Larry laugh his ass off). Here's the other one:

A blind guy tells a fellow that he loves to sky-dive. The other guy says "It's amazing that you can sky-dive, being blind! How does that work?"

The blind guy says "My friends pack my chute for me and lead me to the plane. When we get up to the proper altitude, they tell me when it's my turn to jump. Then I feel my way to the opening and jump out. I count off 60 seconds, then pull the ripcord to open my chute. It's great fun! What a rush!"

The other guy says "That sounds great, but I understand that landing, even with a fully-deployed chute, is quite jarring. Is there some way you can know when you're about to hit the ground so you can steel yourself for the impact?"

The blind guy says "Yeah. Just before I'm about to hit the ground, my dog's leash goes slack."

[meherc]

But she is lying aand everyone in the neighborhood and the police who I called agree. I am so tired of fighting with the legal system, my PTSD, and I have enough trauma in my life without having obviously self-centered lunatics bothering me too. What person with any compassion would keep harrassing a woman who' s husband just was violently murdered by her son who is in jail, not the hospital, because he had a psychotic break? She knew this, I lost my whole life , my whole family in an instant and have no one to help me, no money and I was usually crying . She would stop by and continued to call me in the middle of the night with her delusional sounds of dog barking. Well, I did everything I could to satisfy her till I realized she was never going to be satisfied. She is a very nasty, vindictive person and i did not read this whole thread purposely because I can't waste my energy now on negative people if I am to survive and be strong enough to keep fighting for my son..

Yes, I have to admit I was hurt by the few replies I did read - which were nasty toward me and blindly believed her accusations. If you all want to do something that actually helps people in the world, why don't you come down to support me and my son in court, where they still treat sick people like criminals. That's the crime. Or you could spend your time discussing imaginary barking and resume the endless discussion about how horrible leaf blowers are.

[meherc]

One more thing, Dixon, I think it is irresponsible to call names when you don't know the facts. That's nice that you are willing to listen to another side but I believe you don't know what's in another person's heart and you should give them (me) the benefit of the doubt. I figured Alexia must have some big pain that would cause her to behave that way. You might notice that I did not start a thread about an angry woman harrassing me for nothing when I was in so much pain already. Maybe she has nothing better to do.

[Alex]

Marilyn, I’m glad to be able to respond to you now directly on this forum. I have no interest in being anything but truthful and characterizing the situation exactly as it is, in full consideration of your needs as well.

I won’t counter many of your statements except to say no police have called or visited me and I’ve had numerous long initial and follow up conversations with Animal Control that helped immensely to know how to work together.

But the truth of the situation is not a question. Even you confirmed that our neighbor told you the barking from your house has made him extremely angry for years. The larger dog is the problem, not the chihuahuas at all, oddly enough.

Marilyn, after I knocked on your door to talk about it I found myself very torn between empathy for your situation and the fact that any night I was facing the possibility of being jolted awake, not being able to fall back asleep for hours and feeling like shit the whole next day. This pattern did happen a few nights every week and was incredibly disruptive to my well being.

I am very, very sorry for what is so disruptive to your well being. You seemed very sweet and in lot of emotional distress. You have told me you don’t hear the dogs, possibly from such emotional distraction. What do we do about how difficult the uncontrollable stress is you are faced with and your neighbor’s right to live without additional stress that is controllable?

No, the bark collars I paid for didn’t work that you graciously let me try, but my offer still stands to pay for a dog door so they can come and go from the backyard.

No one has really addressed the title of this thread, my original intention was to get specific community consensus of what the actual terms of tolerance should be considered reasonable.

I suggest that responsible dog ownership and fair neighborly consideration is no barking after 10pm, and no situation allowed where a dog isn’t stopped from extended barking for no good reason. That’s what I would feel is reasonable and neighborly.

Marilyn, my offer still stands to help the barking situation in any way I can and you can call or ask me to come over anytime you need a shoulder to lean on too. I repeat from previous post, I am not your enemy. I want whatever peace I have a reasonable right to and fair, mutual consideration. Please call me. Thank you.

[Barry]

I don't want to get into a she-said/she-said, or rather your dog is barking - no s/he's not, so I ask that Alexia and Marilyn refrain from posting further on this thread. I hope they can find a resolution that works for them.

I don't know what can be said to help them, especially given Marilyn's difficult circumstances.

I think it's best if this thread returns to it's initial topic, which is what is your interpretation of the noise ordinance which states "...no animal owner should obstruct the reasonable and comfortable use of property by barking....."

Alexia posted her interpretation:

I suggest that responsible dog ownership and fair neighborly consideration is no barking after 10pm, and no situation allowed where a dog isn’t stopped from extended barking for no good reason. That’s what I would feel is reasonable and neighborly.

What's yours?

[lili22]

Los Angeles Gives Bite to Bark Law
By Jon Bastian

The Los Angeles City Council and Mayor have passed a new Ordinance to give the Department of Animal Services authority over nuisance dog complaints, whether the dog is licensed or not. Previously, the Department could only hear such matters if the dog was licensed, which created a Catch-22 situation. As explained by Mitchell Englander, Chair of the City’s Public Safety Committee, “In effect, owners of unlicensed dogs are treated more leniently than owners of licensed dogs. (This) Ordinance allows the Department to… impose conditions and restrictions including issuing an order to remove nuisance dogs.”
The Ordinance also defines for the first time excessive “whining, barking, howling, or similar dog noise.” Under the new law, the noise must be continuously audible for ten minutes, or intermittently audible for thirty minutes within a three hour period. These provisions do not apply to any legally permitted commercial animal establishment, such as a doggie day care. Penalties are $ 250 for the first offense, increasing to $ 1,000 for a third offense.
The law also creates a new Restricted Dog Permit to be issued in the case of a dog biting, attacking, or injuring a person non-fatally due to owner negligence. This Permit, which is $120 in addition to regular license fees, also requires the owner of the dog to post warning signs on their property, and maintain at least $ 100,000 of liability insurance. The new regulations go into effect in early December. You can find text of the Ordinance here.
Are there nuisance barking regulations where you live? If so, how are they handled and what are the penalties? Let us know in the comments.

[Connubial Warthog]

HMMM. Alexa sounds incredibly cogent and sane for a complete nutcase. As I suspected, the truth lies somewhere in between. it's always about which point of view one chooses to look at the situation from. Specifically addressing the point Marilyn made about asking neighbors (who are fellow dog owners) whether or not they hear the barking or if it bothers them, I have found that dog owners are a loyal bunch, who will invariably watch each others back, lest someone come knocking on their doors complaining about little Fido's barking. You will never get a straight answer out of them. It's just too bad people can't come together and find solutions without bringing government agencies into the mix.

My friend (who works at home as a professional cable television editor,) finally had to go after his neighbors who left barking dogs at home. One by one he got his space back. The answer in his case was to record the dogs and then go to animal control. In mediation he simply flipped on the play button and instantly all denials went dead silent as the dogs in question went on and on, sometimes for 2 hour long blocks. In most cases, bark collars did the job. Or letting the dogs stay inside whole the owner was at work. Whatever, it was like a second job for the guy. A lot of work for something that should be a given: that a home owner should be able to enjoy his personal space without resorting to earplugs or headphones or having to bring in the authorities.

Dog owners don't hear their dogs. The only way to get their attention is to make recordings and take actions that might result in fines or ultimately, the dogs being taken away from their negligent owners. Sorry, but that has been my experience and what I have observed. I wish it didn't have to be this way.

I feel compassion for Marilyn and the heartbreaking events she has had to endure in her life, but that is not what this thread is addressing. I don't live in their neighborhood, so I have no idea what the truth is, but my intuition tells me that both sides are quite naturally biased and the truth lies somewhere in between. What do do? I don't have an answer. It's hard for humans with different sets of values to live in close proximity with one another.

Marilyn, I’m glad to be able to respond to you now directly on this forum. I have no interest in being anything but truthful and characterizing the situation exactly as it is, in full consideration of your needs as well.

I won’t counter many of your statements except to say no police have called or visited me and I’ve had numerous long initial and follow up conversations with Animal Control that helped immensely to know how to work together.

But the truth of the situation is not a question. Even you confirmed that our neighbor told you the barking from your house has made him extremely angry for years. The larger dog is the problem, not the chihuahuas at all, oddly enough.

Marilyn, after I knocked on your door to talk about it I found myself very torn between empathy for your situation and the fact that any night I was facing the possibility of being jolted awake, not being able to fall back asleep for hours and feeling like shit the whole next day. This pattern did happen a few nights every week and was incredibly disruptive to my well being.

I am very, very sorry for what is so disruptive to your well being. You seemed very sweet and in lot of emotional distress. You have told me you don’t hear the dogs, possibly from such emotional distraction. What do we do about how difficult the uncontrollable stress is you are faced with and your neighbor’s right to live without additional stress that is controllable?

No, the bark collars I paid for didn’t work that you graciously let me try, but my offer still stands to pay for a dog door so they can come and go from the backyard.

No one has really addressed the title of this thread, my original intention was to get specific community consensus of what the actual terms of tolerance should be considered reasonable.

I suggest that responsible dog ownership and fair neighborly consideration is no barking after 10pm, and no situation allowed where a dog isn’t stopped from extended barking for no good reason. That’s what I would feel is reasonable and neighborly.

Marilyn, my offer still stands to help the barking situation in any way I can and you can call or ask me to come over anytime you need a shoulder to lean on too. I repeat from previous post, I am not your enemy. I want whatever peace I have a reasonable right to and fair, mutual consideration. Please call me. Thank you.

[Connubial Warthog]

I agree with Alexa's totally reasonable interpretation. No barking after 10 pm and no extended barking for no good reason. (which is 99.99% of the time.) And I might add, no barking before 8 am. I was awakened two days in a row @.5:30 am by neighbor dogs who were as usual, barking at nothing. Ruins my day as I'm a nite owl. That's well before dawn. No excuses. At least shut them up when it happens. But as Ive already stated elsewhere, most dog owners don't hear their own animals. They probably sleep right thru it for all I know.sigh...

I don't want to get into a she-said/she-said, or rather your dog is barking - no s/he's not, so I ask that Alexia and Marilyn refrain from posting further on this thread. I hope they can find a resolution that works for them.

I don't know what can be said to help them, especially given Marilyn's difficult circumstances.

I think it's best if this thread returns to it's initial topic, which is what is your interpretation of the noise ordinance which states "...no animal owner should obstruct the reasonable and comfortable use of property by barking....."

Alexia posted here interpretation:

What's yours?

[podfish]

My experience is dog owners tend to feel entitled.

unlike people who don't own dogs...

yeah, stereotyping is lazy and thoughtless, but I only use stereotypes when they're true.

[Connubial Warthog]

Dude,

I am not stereotyping. I am however, observing. After decades of observing dog owners, this is what I have seen. I have been bitten by a dog on the trail and the owners didn't even apologize. I constantly see dogs on trails where they are not permitted. My girlfriend was knocked down to the ground a year ago by two unleashed dogs up on the top of Willow Creek where they are not permitted. And there's dog shit all over the trail up there.

I have experienced dog owners who are at home while their dogs bark and do nothing to stop them. I regularly have dog poop in my driveway even though I post signs asking owners to kindly clean up after their dogs. So, yeah, sue me: I am making a generalization. I can't speak to the "entitlement" of non-dog owners with regards to how they treat their neighbors when it comes to their dogs....because they don't own them! We get good neighbors and bad ones true. But in this instance I am speaking to a specific problem and it is rampant around here. If the poo sticks...scrape it off your shoe, like I have to all the time.

unlike people who don't own dogs...

yeah, stereotyping is lazy and thoughtless, but I only use stereotypes when they're true.

[Connubial Warthog]

Unfortunately, this is the only thing that will ever really work, and it will never happen here in Forestville. As it is, they don't even implement the flimsy laws we have in place. Don't get me started.

Los Angeles Gives Bite to Bark Law
By Jon Bastian

The Los Angeles City Council and Mayor have passed a new Ordinance to give the Department of Animal Services authority over nuisance dog complaints,...
The Ordinance also defines for the first time excessive “whining, barking, howling, or similar dog noise.” Under the new law, the noise must be continuously audible for ten minutes, or intermittently audible for thirty minutes within a three hour period. These provisions do not apply to any legally permitted commercial animal establishment, such as a doggie day care. Penalties are $ 250 for the first offense, increasing to $ 1,000 for a third offense.
....

[Hotspring 44]

I agree with Alexa's totally reasonable interpretation. No barking after 10 pm and no extended barking for no good reason. (which is 99.99% of the time.) And I might add, no barking before 8 am. I was awakened two days in a row @.5:30 am by neighbor dogs who were as usual, barking at nothing.

I want to make it clear that I am referring to the after 10:00 PM and the dark hours of the early morning barking issue only and that the barking dog, location where, and (the) who the barking dog’s owner is have all been positively identified with reasonable certainty. Otherwise it would be hearsay; he said, she said, etc.

So here I go... ...stepping in it so to speak.
FWIW, IMHO, as a past tense dog owner; 1A- I think it is impossible or at least unreasonable to expect the dog owner to absolutely guarantee that a dog won’t (ever) at some point bark (out in the yard) at all after 10:00 PM 365 days a year...

...1B- Even well behaved dogs have reasons why they may be barking regardless of what time of day or night it is.
For one thing, there may be someone else’s loose dog/s (a violation in Sonoma County) are roaming the neighborhood and the (more-so) law abiding dog owner has their dog/s in an adequately fenced yard that will bark at loose dogs, or at someone who is walking near the fence, may be with or without a leashed (or unleashed) dog too for that matter, then there are cats to bark at... ...what about the nuisance of trespassing cats that cause dogs to bark?... ...so...
...It is unreasonable to expect that any dog won’t bark at those times under those or similar circumstances.

...It is also unreasonable to make a ‘demand’ that the dog owner has to keep their dog in the house where as it would defecate or urinate in the home.

1C- There should be a way to reasonably have a mutually acceptable agreement and understanding of the needs of each other, and stick to the agreement made using that understanding of each others needs as the foundation... That being said... ...Is there a part of the law that says the litigants can or have to go to an arbitrator?...

...If so: 2- I think it is reasonable for the law or judge decide in a case to case basis, to have litigants make a binding agreement with each other (dog owner/s and neighbor/s) for the dog owner to be present enough of mind and body to stop the dog/s from barking within 30 seconds to 1 minute; certainly not more than 90 seconds but 30 seconds as a basic set time for the barking to last (after 10:00 PM); generally speaking, because it is inevitable that (as a basic rule) the dog has to be out in the (presumably, fenced) yard to relieve itself.

3- It would be unreasonable for the dog owner to not have enough control of their dog/s to 1- Keep the dog away from their immediate next door neighbors part of the home that would be an invasion of peace with a bark; such as a bedroom window or where a baby sleeps for example, and also in cases where there is no immediate next door neighbor/s, and/or (to) not stop the dog from barking for over 90 seconds at the very longest after 10:00 PM.

It is also unreasonable for the dog owner to have any dog that barks at anything that makes even the slightest noise, anything that moves in the neighborhood, and/or other barking dogs hundreds of yards or even miles away and not have someone that is capable (not a small child with a large dog) to be physically in the yard with the dog, so they can have a reasonable way to successfully prevent or at least stop the barking very quickly at times between the hours of 1:30 AM and ½ hour before sunrise.

As far as incessantly barking dogs that go on (or on and off, and on again etc.) for hours during the daytime, I will, for now; not step into that pile.

[Barry]

So here I go... ...stepping in it so to speak.
...

Congrats, you win the prize for Best Use of Graphics!
Plus I've elevated your poo to be part of our graphics gallery.
Oh, and good post too!