Wise man in his 50's seeks established, generous, beautiful woman in 30's

[Skook]

Like many of you, I too am looking to create a mutually supportive and positive relationship with a complimentary, successful...uh...I mean, well established partner.

I would like to share my wit, wisdom, yangness, warmth and open heart with a nubile, receptive young woman. I am a handsome and really male man in his mid-fifties who is just beginning to understand how powerful and attractive men can be, and I wish to share my incredibleness with you.

With humility and compassion,

an incredibly amazing man,

Skook

[iaim2xl]

Yeah, me too. And if you get too many phone calls, Skook, feel free to send the overflow my way LOL!

Like many of you, I too am looking to create a mutually supportive and positive relationship with a complimentary, successful...uh...I mean, well established partner.

I would like to share my wit, wisdom, yangness, warmth and open heart with a nubile, receptive young woman. I am a handsome and really male man in his mid-fifties who is just beginning to understand how powerful and attractive men can be, and I wish to share my incredibleness with you.

With humility and compassion,

an incredibly amazing man,

Skook

[Barry]

Nothing like asking for what you want, gents!

I can vouch for Tim, he's a mensch (even if he's a goy), and what's more his picture is in his profile!

How about you, Skook? You can upload a photo to your profile here:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/profi...editprofilepic
or provide a link in your profile to photo someplace else.

Like many of you, I too am looking to create a mutually supportive and positive relationship with a complimentary, successful...uh...I mean, well established partner.

I would like to share my wit, wisdom, yangness, warmth and open heart with a nubile, receptive young woman. I am a handsome and really male man in his mid-fifties who is just beginning to understand how powerful and attractive men can be, and I wish to share my incredibleness with you.

With humility and compassion,

an incredibly amazing man,

Skook

[Sylph]

Tim is very handsome and has a wonderful smile. With all that Yang he'd have no trouble attracting plenty of Yin...for free!

Nothing like asking for what you want, gents!

I can vouch for Tim, he's a mensch (even if he's a goy), and what's more his picture is in his profile!

How about you, Skook? You can upload a photo to your profile here:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/profi...editprofilepic
or provide a link in your profile to photo someplace else.

[debbus]

Am I the only one that can't believe a wise handsome man in his 50's would limit himself to a woman in her 30's? Heck that means a guy in his 30's would be looking for a 10 year old.

[MsTerry]

Am I the only one that can't believe a wise handsome man in his 50's would limit himself to a woman in her 30's?

Skook is tongue in cheek parodying some of the female declarations.

Heck that means a guy in his 30's would be looking for a 10 year old.

No, that is not what it means

[ChristineL]

I wonder what the reactions would be if I stated: "Wise, fit, still sexy, youthful looking woman in her fifties would like to find a sexy, interesting, fit man in his thirties." It is at this stage of my life that I feel very comfortable with who I am and feel I have a lot to offer. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that I am actually very happy single...It still annoys me that so many men in their fifties and sixties don't even consider women in their fifties and sixties, no matter how attractive, interesting and fit...

Am I the only one that can't believe a wise handsome man in his 50's would limit himself to a woman in her 30's? Heck that means a guy in his 30's would be looking for a 10 year old.

[Sylph]

Well, I'm not a guy, but I think you'd get some eager responses. Now, if you offered to support him, or pay by the hour, I bet the response rate would increase ten-fold.

Dunno if you'd trust their intentions in that case, though!

[Braggi]

...It still annoys me that so many men in their fifties and sixties don't even consider women in their fifties and sixties, no matter how attractive, interesting and fit...

I appreciate the beautiful young women I see, but as I get older (now 53) the 20 and 30 somethings seem ... well, young. I've always been comfortable with women my own age and a bit older, and that hasn't changed.

Maybe it really is about having a lot to relate to.

-Jeff

PS. I realize the original couple of posts were TIC.

[debbus]

Maybe TIC but, if you've ever checked out the personal ads or have done any online dating, it's more the norm than the exception.

[Tinque]

I am curious as to why you would specify a "woman" in her 30's.. Everyone , no matter what their age, is different in maturity , wisdom , sexual experience and ......the list can go on.

Like many of you, I too am looking to create a mutually supportive and positive relationship with a complimentary, successful...uh...I mean, well established partner.

I would like to share my wit, wisdom, yangness, warmth and open heart with a nubile, receptive young woman. I am a handsome and really male man in his mid-fifties who is just beginning to understand how powerful and attractive men can be, and I wish to share my incredibleness with you.

With humility and compassion,

an incredibly amazing man,

Skook

[MsTerry]

It still annoys me that so many men in their fifties and sixties don't even consider women in their fifties and sixties, no matter how attractive, interesting and fit...

50 Reasons Why Young Women Date Old Men - BrooWaha

[countrygirl]

Why would you put such age restrictions on your request? Does that not just contradict your claim of wisdom? Maybe you should work on your humility and other claims.

Like many of you, I too am looking to create a mutually supportive and positive relationship with a complimentary, successful...uh...I mean, well established partner.

I would like to share my wit, wisdom, yangness, warmth and open heart with a nubile, receptive young woman. I am a handsome and really male man in his mid-fifties who is just beginning to understand how powerful and attractive men can be, and I wish to share my incredibleness with you.

With humility and compassion,

an incredibly amazing man,

Skook

[Braggi]

Why would you put such age restrictions on your request? Does that not just contradict your claim of wisdom? Maybe you should work on your humility and other claims.

Countrygirl, his post was a joke. He turned around a post put up by a young woman exploring "non sexual" relationships with older men that implied money would change hands. I hope I'm not overstating the case but the starting post in this thread was certainly tongue in cheek.

-Jeff

[countrygirl]

In that case it was kind of funny. I should have read all of the thread. My bad. Obviously when money is exchanged there's no real giving of love and spirit involved. I'll read further before I'm silly enough not to get a joke next time.

Countrygirl, his post was a joke. He turned around a post put up by a young woman exploring "non sexual" relationships with older men that implied money would change hands. I hope I'm not overstating the case but the starting post in this thread was certainly tongue in cheek.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

... Obviously when money is exchanged there's no real giving of love and spirit involve. ...

Now, why is it we assume that? I think most people in our puritanical society would agree with your statement. I certainly would have a few decades ago. More recently I've met a number of people who provide both company and sexual connection for money. Most of these folks really love what they do, really love a number of their customers (probably not all of them), and view their work as sacred as well as practical. The "Sacred Harlot" or "Temple Virgin" is one of the original spiritual professions. There's no reason it shouldn't or couldn't be spiritual in modern times.

How does sex take a professional relationship outside the realm of love and spirit? I agree that it certainly can, but does it necessarily? I think not.

I also think there are a whole lot of practitioners of "sacred" services that do it for money (I mean specifically, non sexual services) who feel they are worth what they charge and that the exchange of money doesn't detract from their injection of love and spiritual intent into their work.

Funny how our cultural biases twist up the relationship of money and sex or of money and any kind of relationship. Some are completely normal and some are suspect while others are actually criminal.

We're a pretty confused culture.

-Jeff

[countrygirl]

Geeez, how many devil advocates are out there on wacco? Not that's there's anything wrong with that. I'm sure there is need for some people to get love from a sacred harlot or whatever but it's obviously tainted by the transaction of money. If they truly loved their customers would they give love for free just because they cared? If they gave a freebie would it be just to keep them coming back to get some more money in the harlots pocket? I'm not saying it can't be spirtual at times but can it really be not tainted? Obviously it's tainted with no real giving or exchange of love. Of course money distracts from their injection of love and spirit intent, they wouldn't be providing it without the money. I'm sure it can serve a purpose but of true love and spiritual healing it does not. Of course I don't think it's criminal. More of a kind of mutual using of each other. There is no doubt we're a confused culture but let's not try to tangle up the confusion with matters as these. There is more spirtual undertakings to get involved with. I certainly hope nothing but better conditions for all beings so understanding not judgement is what's important. For now I'm not up for any sort of non productive debate. Peace and real love to all.
..............................................................................................................

Now, why is it we assume that? I think most people in our puritanical society would agree with your statement. I certainly would have a few decades ago. More recently I've met a number of people who provide both company and sexual connection for money. Most of these folks really love what they do, really love a number of their customers (probably not all of them), and view their work as sacred as well as practical. The "Sacred Harlot" or "Temple Virgin" is one of the original spiritual professions. There's no reason it shouldn't or couldn't be spiritual in modern times. Of course money distracts from their injection of love and spirit intent, they wouldn't be providing it without the money. I'm sure it can serve a purpose but of true love and spiritual healing it does not. Of course I don't think it's criminal. More of a kind of mutual using of each other. There is no doubt we're a confused culture but let's not try to tangle up the confusion with matters as these. There is more spirtual undertakings to get involved with. I certainly hope nothing but better conditions for all beings so understanding not judgement is what's important. For now I'm not up for any sort of non productive debate. Peace and real love to all.
.....................................................................................................

How does sex take a professional relationship outside the realm of love and spirit? I agree that it certainly can, but does it necessarily? I think not.

I also think there are a whole lot of practitioners of "sacred" services that do it for money (I mean specifically, non sexual services) who feel they are worth what they charge and that the exchange of money doesn't detract from their injection of love and spiritual intent into their work.

Funny how our cultural biases twist up the relationship of money and sex or of money and any kind of relationship. Some are completely normal and some are suspect while others are actually criminal.

We're a pretty confused culture.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

... I'm sure there is need for some people to get love from a sacred harlot or whatever but it's obviously tainted by the transaction of money. If they truly loved their customers would they give love for free just because they cared? ...

Countrygirl, what is it you do for a living? Would you do it for free just because you love to do it or because you work from a spiritual place in your mind or heart? Why should a minister in a church be paid? ... or a physician? ... or a dancer? ... or any profession? Why do we pay people to do work for us? Why is a sexual, sensual, or companionship professional relationship different from any other professional relationship?

I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm trying to spark a conversation that explores our cultural assumptions around these professions. I realize you're probably giving up on the thread, but perhaps others could chime in.

-Jeff

[countrygirl]

I have given up on the thread. It seems interesting but not incredibly important. And let me say again I have nothing against any of those transactions happening, I'm just not going to call them loving or spiritual. Everybody has to make a living, but it was it is and I'm not going to elevate the nature of it. It's not like I would make it illegal or anything. I would only question what true spiritual good would come out of it or what spiritual harm? I could think of issues on both sides. I actually think minister shouldn't be wealthy by the nature of their profession and many doctors do give of themselves (Doctors without borders for instance) As you know many ministers of different faiths live simple lives of modest means and live off of offering and don't charge in advance for spiritual guidence. Dancing is one place a temple harlot could go to "help" these men and get paid in offerings. If they feel a spiritual urge to "help" these men, why should they charge. They have enough to get by just from dancing and if they feel the spirit of compassion to "help" then it would be out of compassion and not for whatever material their trying to possess that motivated their service. That is true Seva is it not. Giving for compassion and cause you feel good about it. Now I'm getting into silly devil's advocate debate. Though your point is well taken about giving of service for free and I can think of a couple of things I should be helping people with that I've been neglecting, it's important to help when you can and where it's truly needed without getting paid. Good luck and I look forward to any true insight.

............................................................................................................................

Countrygirl, what is it you do for a living? Would you do it for free just because you love to do it or because you work from a spiritual place in your mind or heart? Why should a minister in a church be paid? ... or a physician? ... or a dancer? ... or any profession? Why do we pay people to do work for us? Why is a sexual, sensual, or companionship professional relationship different from any other professional relationship?

I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm trying to spark a conversation that explores our cultural assumptions around these professions. I realize you're probably giving up on the thread, but perhaps others could chime in.

-Jeff

[Zeno Swijtink]

Geeez, how many devil advocates are out there on wacco? ( ...) Obviously it's tainted with no real giving or exchange of love. Of course money distracts from their injection of love and spirit intent, they wouldn't be providing it without the money. I'm sure it can serve a purpose but of true love and spiritual healing it does not. Of course I don't think it's criminal. More of a kind of mutual using of each other.

I do agree with you that introducing money as an external reward in what previously was a free contribution to some joint interest changed the meaning of the contribution.

For that reason I have never given money to my children in direct exchange for things they were doing around the house. I wanted to teach them that the household was a common interest of us all and that we all contribute to our capacity and that participation is its own reward.

So if Lola wants to start a profession (where there is actually some extensive historical precedence) it will certainly have to mean something different to her and to her clients than if the same were done between friends, lovers, or spouses.

But the same has happened in the past: we now can pay a counselor for parental advice or talk to our friends or minister, as was the only option in previous times. These are different experiences. But our relation with the counselor has been normalized and guided by the professional ethics the counselor works by. This allows us to develop feelings of esteem and affection for the counselor that we do not confuse for the feelings we have for our friends.

This does not mean that we cannot get confused and fall in love or so with a counselor. But we know that's inappropriate, and in fact handing over the check affirms that.

So I would not used the negative word "tainted" but I agree with you that money changes the interaction in important ways.

[iaim2xl]

Here's another devil's advocate comment. Boy, do I ever disagree with you, Carolyn. Your logic, if extended, essentially says that, because doctors get paid, they don't genuinely care for patients and/or truly love their work. Same for those in the clergy. Would you argue that, because they get paid, their spiritual contribution is somehow lessened? I doubt it.

C'mon! While I loved Skook's parody and agree that the original poster was being somewhat disingenuous with her approach, there is nothing wrong with accepting money for services rendered so long as value is received by the person paying. To invalidate the motives of the servicer simply because money is involved is nonsense.

It would have been more authentic for her to say something like, "If you are a man in your 50s and would like affectionate, perhaps even loving companionship with a younger woman, I'll give it to you. In return, I could use some financial help. Do we have a deal?"

But the poster wrapped her offer in new-agey bullcrap that made it sound like it was something different than it was--a solicitation pure and simple. She has a right to make it (at least I think she does under the law...), and there's nothing wrong with it. Skook's parody was an intent to ridicule the way she went about it.

And, I might add, his parody got me roaring out load as I sat reading it in front of my computer. It's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time, and I publicly proclaim my gratitude for his wit.

Geeez, how many devil advocates are out there on wacco? Not that's there's anything wrong with that. I'm sure there is need for some people to get love from a sacred harlot or whatever but it's obviously tainted by the transaction of money. If they truly loved their customers would they give love for free just because they cared? If they gave a freebie would it be just to keep them coming back to get some more money in the harlots pocket? I'm not saying it can't be spirtual at times but can it really be not tainted? Obviously it's tainted with no real giving or exchange of love. Of course money distracts from their injection of love and spirit intent, they wouldn't be providing it without the money. I'm sure it can serve a purpose but of true love and spiritual healing it does not. Of course I don't think it's criminal. More of a kind of mutual using of each other. There is no doubt we're a confused culture but let's not try to tangle up the confusion with matters as these. There is more spirtual undertakings to get involved with. I certainly hope nothing but better conditions for all beings so understanding not judgement is what's important. For now I'm not up for any sort of non productive debate. Peace and real love to all.
..............................................................................................................

[hales]

I agree with Barry.. asking for what you want is a great approach.. in fact, I'm watching a show on tv, right about mating protocols, attractiveness, etc. It's a funny synchronicity. Asking for what I want, as opposed to not asking for it, or asking for something I don't want or automatically accepting less than what I want, probably shows a lower sense of self-
confidence.. ; )

I also think posting pictures on the profile is a great idea, and I intend to do that, asap.. I hope more folks will do so, also, as I'm curious about all the fellow wacco-ites... ; )

Good luck, Tim!

Scott.

Nothing like asking for what you want, gents!

I can vouch for Tim, he's a mensch (even if he's a goy), and what's more his picture is in his profile!

How about you, Skook? You can upload a photo to your profile here:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/profi...editprofilepic
or provide a link in your profile to photo someplace else.

[hales]

Disclaimer, I just realized I haven't read the whole thread.. I saw the early posts and responded, now I see a whole lot of energetic responses!

Okay, this is me responding to Christine..

Nobody said that biology is fair.. Take it from a short, bald, divorced guy in his fifties.. ; ) Actually, I consider myself lucky in being able to attract attention from attractive women of various ages.. but I know I am not going not going to attract a great woman based on my outer characteristics, alone. (I've experimented with on-line dating and found it a very discouraging experience.. I know guys who look great on the computer screen.. but that doesn't necessarily make them good partners. )

I have seen ads similar to your hypothetical example though.. I wonder how often such women get what they are looking for. I did have an online conversation with a younger woman who indicated she would probably go for my 20 year old son, before me! (She was in her 30s, I think.. she said she liked men much younger than her.. so ageism is not limited to men, apparently)

I do feel sympathy for middle-aged women; just as men might feel a sense of declining "market value", I think it's probably often even worse for women.

I do think that a friendly smile and a positive attitude will go a long way.
(That and a great body, a lot of money, a good job, a house and a nice car.. ; )

Scott.

I wonder what the reactions would be if I stated: "Wise, fit, still sexy, youthful looking woman in her fifties would like to find a sexy, interesting, fit man in his thirties." It is at this stage of my life that I feel very comfortable with who I am and feel I have a lot to offer. Unfortunately, the truth of the matter is that I am actually very happy single...It still annoys me that so many men in their fifties and sixties don't even consider women in their fifties and sixties, no matter how attractive, interesting and fit...

[hales]

Okay, now I get it.. its a parody.. but..
I still think that the discussion of power, money, age and attractiveness is valuable and interesting. This is a really big subject with so many possible branches to explore. What are women attracted to and what are men attracted to, and why do they differ.. is there a moral right or wrong in who is with whom and why? What is really motivating us in choosing our mates?

Chemistry is interesting to me, too..

Oxytocin, chemical addiction and the science of love

IMO, if two people both want to be together and aren't hurting anyone, I say, then bless them! : ) There are all kinds of partnerships with different dynamics, not just one acceptable path.

Btw, I am a massage therapist who gets paid to help people feel relaxed and good and I love my work; I sometimes do do it for free, if I'm not too tired, and if I feel like it.

I've been watching this cool show about this topic, while reading this thread..

Science of Sex Appeal Videos : Attraction : Discovery Channel

Cool, huh?

Scott.

[Barry]

...
I also think posting pictures on the profile is a great idea, and I intend to do that, asap.. I hope more folks will do so, also, as I'm curious about all the fellow wacco-ites... ; )

Thanks for posting your profile picture, Scott, you handsome devil! No doubt your "market value" on Wacco just went up! And the prospect of free massages probably didn't hurt either, even if it was a bit sneaky!

How about this rest of you? Let's see who you are! My intention for Wacco is that we would reveal ourselves more including what we look like so we could recognize each other around town and continue to deepen the sense of community.

[ChristineL]

I have been asked, often, how I could possibly charge for what is a gift from God...My response has been that God didn't give me a gift so I could starve to death. And, no I do not feel my contributions are lessened due to getting paid.

Let's get real, for a moment, about the whole getting paid for giving love and nurturing thing. How many marriages are based on just that? I've been doing readings for over 30 years and relationships are what I'm asked about the most. One relatively frequent criteria of what someone is looking for is "makes a lot money", "has a great career", "I don't want to work any more, I want someone who'll support me well", etc., etc....When it comes to forming permanent romantic relationships, a lot more people are "for sale" than you would think. At least, offering companionship directly for money, puts it all out front with little room for delusions.

Here's another devil's advocate comment. Boy, do I ever disagree with you, Carolyn. Your logic, if extended, essentially says that, because doctors get paid, they don't genuinely care for patients and/or truly love their work. Same for those in the clergy. Would you argue that, because they get paid, their spiritual contribution is somehow lessened? I doubt it.

C'mon! While I loved Skook's parody and agree that the original poster was being somewhat disingenuous with her approach, there is nothing wrong with accepting money for services rendered so long as value is received by the person paying. To invalidate the motives of the servicer simply because money is involved is nonsense.

It would have been more authentic for her to say something like, "If you are a man in your 50s and would like affectionate, perhaps even loving companionship with a younger woman, I'll give it to you. In return, I could use some financial help. Do we have a deal?"

But the poster wrapped her offer in new-agey bullcrap that made it sound like it was something different than it was--a solicitation pure and simple. She has a right to make it (at least I think she does under the law...), and there's nothing wrong with it. Skook's parody was an intent to ridicule the way she went about it.

And, I might add, his parody got me roaring out load as I sat reading it in front of my computer. It's one of the funniest things I've read in a long time, and I publicly proclaim my gratitude for his wit.

[Sylph]

One relatively frequent criteria of what someone is looking for is "makes a lot money", "has a great career", "I don't want to work any more, I want someone who'll support me well", etc., etc....When it comes to forming permanent romantic relationships, a lot more people are "for sale" than you would think. At least, offering companionship directly for money, puts it all out front with little room for delusions.

Great point, Christine.

[iaim2xl]

Yes, it does put it out there, right up front. And THAT'S one of the main things that makes a woman attractive to me--being a straight shooter.

I realize there are men my age who still see themselves as young studs--and want a younger woman to match their self image. For my part, I'll take a well-preserved boomer chick any day over a woman less in years and wisdom.

Now that hormones aren't the main driver of my attraction, frankly I prefer a woman who won't tear me up in bed when I'm giving it all I've got with my 56-year-old body!

I'd like to address the women in this and other discussion threads who limit themselves by thinking they can't attract a man because of their age.

Let that one go, baby! It's got little to do with your age and everything to do with your thinking! Yes, I know age may limit the field a bit, but put the Law of Attraction to work. If you know you are a red hot mama--a real catch--and it's who you really are, you're going to attract the right man.

If you don't, then I challenge you to take a long hard look at yourself--in the mirror as well as to the core. If you've got a story about why "he" hasn't shown up yet, that simply means you've got a story. Change the story, and the circumstances will eventually change, too.

Some of the most attractive women I've known in my life were downright ugly when you looked at them objectively. Some were heavy. Once when I was in my mid 20s, I met an 80-year-old woman who was so hot I could barely talk to her without creaming my jeans. The point is, being attractive starts with being, and other people get it if you truly do.

So, if you need to go to the gym so you feel better about yourself, then go. If you need to upgrade your style, take care of it. If you simply need to let go of the reasons why you're not attracting the right man, then take responsibility for the fact that you're just not ready--and enjoy the ride until you are.

But blaming it on age.... that's a convenient excuse. Did I offend anyone with this post? I'd love to hear from you!

[ChristineL]

Not the least bit offended. I've noticed, for years now, that if I go out with a down on myself attitude, I'm invisible. If I go out with an "I am a hot boomer mama" attitude, I get positive attention. Part of the secret is not getting caught up in obsessively trying to look twenty years younger...I decided a few years ago to age gracefully, glamorously and eccentrically. I'm also smart enough to camouflage the "less then perfect" and emphasize what's still holding up really well. I lift weights, both for the sake of fighting gravity and osteoporousis. It works...

One tip to the ladies, I find it a lot more satisfying to have people say "you can't be that age"; "you look younger" than have them give that blank look that says "I wonder by how many years she's lying". Take it from someone who reads palms...it doesn't matter how many surgeries you've had, how much you exercise, etc...your hands will always give you away. If you take care of them, they'll give away less, but they'll still give most of it away.

Yes, it does put it out there, right up front. And THAT'S one of the main things that makes a woman attractive to me--being a straight shooter.

I realize there are men my age who still see themselves as young studs--and want a younger woman to match their self image. For my part, I'll take a well-preserved boomer chick any day over a woman less in years and wisdom.

Now that hormones aren't the main driver of my attraction, frankly I prefer a woman who won't tear me up in bed when I'm giving it all I've got with my 56-year-old body!

I'd like to address the women in this and other discussion threads who limit themselves by thinking they can't attract a man because of their age.

Let that one go, baby! It's got little to do with your age and everything to do with your thinking! Yes, I know age may limit the field a bit, but put the Law of Attraction to work. If you know you are a red hot mama--a real catch--and it's who you really are, you're going to attract the right man.

If you don't, then I challenge you to take a long hard look at yourself--in the mirror as well as to the core. If you've got a story about why "he" hasn't shown up yet, that simply means you've got a story. Change the story, and the circumstances will eventually change, too.

Some of the most attractive women I've known in my life were downright ugly when you looked at them objectively. Some were heavy. Once when I was in my mid 20s, I met an 80-year-old woman who was so hot I could barely talk to her without creaming my jeans. The point is, being attractive starts with being, and other people get it if you truly do.

So, if you need to go to the gym so you feel better about yourself, then go. If you need to upgrade your style, take care of it. If you simply need to let go of the reasons why you're not attracting the right man, then take responsibility for the fact that you're just not ready--and enjoy the ride until you are.

But blaming it on age.... that's a convenient excuse. Did I offend anyone with this post? I'd love to hear from you!

[Dixon]

I haven't found much time to check out Wacco lately, but Skook called my attention to this thread, and the thread that this one responds to, and I've read this stuff with interest.

Rather than add my $0.02 worth, I'll just call y'alls' attention to a pair of very similar threads from 2 1/2 years ago that covered pretty much the same ground. I and others processed these issues quite a bit; those of you who find this current thread interesting are invited to check out the thread "A Handful of Gorgeous Women" and its sequel " A Handful of Peaceful, Generous Women".

Blessings;

Dixon