Ron Paul, Libertarianism and the U.N.

[purplepig]

Yum! Non sequitur with a straw man chaser!

You've avoided my point, which is that these idle musings do not and will not have any real-world implementation, now or in the future. The nature of our political system as it has evolved ensures this. Whatever your opinion is, or Ron Paul's opinion, or Robert Bork's opinion, the federal government of the United States will always have the power to regulate markets, and it will continue to do so.

You've tried hard to change the subject, but no dice. The Wikipedia quotes, conjectures, accusations, surmises, links to websites and ideological expositions you make here don't amount to anything but talk. You're promoting a doomed candidate with a nonstarter political philosophy, and grasping at straws to show that there might, somehow, be a way for these to be viable. You have not in any manner succeeded.

I'm done with this thread--it's gotten recursive and silly.



SM

Goodbye Sonomamark - I will not miss you.

[d-cat]

Yum! Non sequitur with a straw man chaser!

You've avoided my point,

Mark, I posted a few posts back on it. Not sure if there is more to add to the subject. Maybe that The Commerce Clause isn't the only test a regulation has to pass. I think Ron Paul goes after regulations for different reasons. But as I said, I'm no expert on the subject. I do know that Ron Paul is an expert on The Constitution and the economy.

which is that these idle musings do not and will not have any real-world implementation, now or in the future. The nature of our political system as it has evolved ensures this. Whatever your opinion is, or Ron Paul's opinion, or Robert Bork's opinion, the federal government of the United States will always have the power to regulate markets, and it will continue to do so.

well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion too

You've tried hard to change the subject, but no dice. The Wikipedia quotes, conjectures, accusations, surmises, links to websites and ideological expositions you make here don't amount to anything but talk.

I think you maybe have me mixed up with somebody else.

You're promoting a doomed candidate with a nonstarter political philosophy, and grasping at straws to show that there might, somehow, be a way for these to be viable. You have not in any manner succeeded.

I'm done with this thread--it's gotten recursive and silly.

SM

ok, see ya then Mark - if you're reading this

[Barry]

You're promoting a doomed candidate with a nonstarter political philosophy, and grasping at straws to show that there might, somehow, be a way for these to be viable.

I've only been lightly scanning this thread. Just because RP doesn't have a shot at being elected, it doesn't mean that he won't have an impact. I think his candidacy has gone a long way in bringing libertarianism towards the main stream. The jury is out, in my opinion, if that is a good thing or not.

It might be easier see from the other side. Let's say Dennis Kucinich should get 30% of the vote in the Democratic primaries. That would be huge! It may not have a big immediate effect, but I have no doubt it would contribute to the greening of the democrats.

Just my . I'm going to return to scan mode...

[OrchardDweller]

Sunday is the big day!

This December 16th, on the anniversary of The Boston Tea Party that started the American Revolution, masses of people will be donating to restore our liberty and save our country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8

It actually starts Saturday at 9pm Pacific Time on the west coast,and will continue all through Sunday. This is a one hundred percent grass roots concept and endeavor, but you can watch the donations flow in to record breaking amounts live at www.ronpaul2008.com It's expected to top the 4.3 million taken in on November 5th!

[OrchardDweller]

The donating has begun! In the first 50 minutes or so Ron Paul has taken in around $340,000. Almost $7,000 per minute. Not bad.

This is about what donations were at midnight Eastern Time, at the start of the Tea Party:



www.ronpaul2008.com

[OrchardDweller]

Ron Paul breaks $12 million mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvTaJxXsc5s

[OrchardDweller]

Here are some early pictures of the Teaparty '07

COLUMBUS, OH


SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA




AUSTIN



And here are even some pictures from Strasbourg, France!

[d-cat]

thanks for the pics! videos of yesterday's rallies are trickling in as well...


Ron Paul Tea Party - Santa Monica Pier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNP1-bokv2g


Austin Tea Party / Ron Paul rally 12-16-2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvGS12EoZUE

[Zeno Swijtink]

Andrew Sullivan Endorses Ron Paul

https://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.c...ul-for-th.html

[handy]

https://ronpaul.meetup.com/568/photos/

I was pleasantly surprised at how many people honked as they passed.
When we were on both sides of Embarcadero, there were some periods of continuous cacophony.

Dr. Paul has the cure for Apathy.

"Somethin's happenin' here..."

[d-cat]

Thanks for posting the pics handy! Looks great! And glad to hear the traffic response was good!

A friend reported seeing 6 Ron Paul signs in Cotati/Rohnert Park yesterday. Woohoo - the R[ƎVO˩]UTION is spreading!

https://ronpaul.meetup.com/568/photos/

I was pleasantly surprised at how many people honked as they passed.
When we were on both sides of Embarcadero, there were some periods of continuous cacophony.

Dr. Paul has the cure for Apathy.

"Somethin's happenin' here..."

[d-cat]

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

[Zeno Swijtink]

Here are some early pictures of the Teaparty '07

COLUMBUS, OH

As an observer of the UN to make these fair and true elections I protest against being dumped!! This compromises the 2008 Presidential Elections.

[d-cat]

excellent speech covering many issues

VIDEO: Ron Paul Speech and Q&A 12-19-07
Politics-n-Eggs Breakfast, New Hampshire

Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwck2nAtlHQ

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqiJ8ttBuCA

Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIbmXfteACw

Part 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqnU5J0rVRk

Part 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qn5XGr7RYc

Part 6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYMMBsBtYLo


or this link will play all the parts continuously:

https://www.youtube.com/view_play_li...178BDF9D38B4A3
(click 'play all videos' on the right)

[d-cat]

Ron Paul on Meet The Press 12-23-07

Part 1 of 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saDw03JXigA

Part 2 of 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgTqSu-ZVFM

Part 3 of 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-iJP4BAAQ4

Part 4 of 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCSY438wpCk

[OrchardDweller]

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

I think that's a very nice holiday message. Happy holidays everyone! Wishing you love, peace and prosperity.

[Sonomamark]

Just found this. Anyone even considering supporting Ron Paul should go here after reading this appalling excerpt from a 3,700-word racist screed by Ron Paul, from his "Political Report" in 1992:

Regardless of what the media tell us, most white Americans are not going to believe that they are at fault for what blacks have done to cities across America. The professional blacks may have cowed the elites, but good sense survives at the grass roots. Many more are going to have difficultly avoiding the belief that our country is being destroyed by a group of actual and potential terrorists -- and they can be identified by the color of their skin. This conclusion may not be entirely fair, but it is, for many, entirely unavoidable.


Indeed, it is shocking to consider the uniformity of opinion among blacks in this country. Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty, and the end of welfare and affirmative action.... Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.


If similar in-depth studies were conducted in other major cities, who doubts that similar results would be produced? We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers.

[Lenny]

Just found this. Anyone even considering supporting Ron Paul should go here after reading this appalling excerpt from a 3,700-word racist screed by Ron Paul, from his "Political Report" in 1992:

The quote has a ring of "truthiness" about it, no? We all here in Wacco-ville support each other with our views where there are no Black folks, but when Ron Paul says MOST AMERICANS FEEL, he ain't lying. Most of the racists I run into live around here with me, and I ain't all that white, but can "pass". So don't call HIM a racist until you check your own heart and fears. Oh, and walk a mile in your shoes in an inner city ghetto or barrio for the first 25 years, then tell me something new. :hiphat:

[OrchardDweller]

Just found this. Anyone even considering supporting Ron Paul should go here after reading this appalling excerpt from a 3,700-word racist screed by Ron Paul, from his "Political Report" in 1992:

Ron Paul's rising popularity is a threat to the establishment. First they tried to ignore him and ban him from the debates. Then they tried making him out to be a racist. They also tried to connect him to the 911 truth movement (as if that's bad). When none of that worked, they then tried to attack his supporters, labeling them as kooks or terrorists. They continue to call Ron Paul "a longshot", despite his enormous support. Now they're going back to trying to label him as a racist once again. This time they are trying to insinuate that his belief that the civil war didn't have to be fought is racist, despite Dr. Paul explaining that other countries like England abolished slavery without a war by simply buying up the slaves and freeing them. Again, Ron Paul is a huge threat to the establishment with his anti-war and anti-corporate welfare views, and they are using their media to try to smear him.

The "racist remarks" article you link to here is back from May and never had quite the effect that Paul's opponents had hoped. It turned out that the remarks were written by a former aide who was then fired. And that was the end of the story.

I've really looked into Ron Paul and know he is not a racist. It's best just to look into the man and judge for yourself whether he is a racist or not. For a start, here is Dr. Paul at the PBS debate where he spoke a bit about race-related issues.

Ron Paul: 9-27-07 PBS Debate
part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLbPfci26wc
part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRN_EvCS1kM


To see an example of a corporate media attempt to smear Ron Paul, have a look at this (rather entertaining) video:

A Fox, a Wolf, and a Whole Lot of Bull
part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY-KlYg9UME
part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ht1bo5UhOs

[OrchardDweller]

Just found this. Anyone even considering supporting Ron Paul should go here after reading this appalling excerpt from a 3,700-word racist screed by Ron Paul, from his "Political Report" in 1992:

Oh, by the way, the Daily Kos article you link to is from May. Here is a more recent article from them:

I Endorse Ron Paul & Why Progressives Should Support Him
https://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2.../453/61/426080

.

[Sonomamark]

Lenny, you completely miss the point. The point is whether you want a President that believes this stuff, who lumps all people of a particular color range into a category of "inferior and/or threatening" people.

Much as Paul's enthusiasts are now doing a dance to try to hide his history, this is a real quote, from a real publication, that Ron Paul signed off on. Trying to distract from the issue by pointing fingers at "the media" or by (irrelevantly) showing that some other person on a blog with hundreds of thousands of participants has supported Paul is just false discourse. The bottom line is this: this man has a long and well-established written record of racist statements. He's supported by white supremacist organizations--and, in fact, has refused to return campaign contributions from their leaders.

I don't want that kind of person as President, and I don't have much respect for someone who does.


SM

The quote has a ring of "truthiness" about it, no? We all here in Wacco-ville support each other with our views where there are no Black folks, but when Ron Paul says MOST AMERICANS FEEL, he ain't lying. Most of the racists I run into live around here with me, and I ain't all that white, but can "pass". So don't call HIM a racist until you check your own heart and fears. Oh, and walk a mile in your shoes in an inner city ghetto or barrio for the first 25 years, then tell me something new. :hiphat:

[theindependenteye]

> The "racist remarks" article you link to here is back from May and never had quite the effect that Paul's opponents had hoped. It turned out that the remarks were written by a former aide who was then fired. And that was the end of the story.
>I've really looked into Ron Paul and know he is not a racist.

So i take it that this was indeed a quote from a report under the name of Ron Paul? And that an aide actually wrote his words for him, and this was published without Paul having read what'd been said? And that the aide was then fired, even though he was actually expressing, as another post noted, what "MOST AMERICANS FEEL"?

The argument about whether or not someone is "a racist" seems to be as off-the-wall as opinions on whether a black candidate is "black enough" or whether a specific gay person was 'born that way." Like most people, I carry a fairly substantial baggage of generalizations & half-truths & prejudgments about others as part of my cultural heritage, and offhand I don't know of any culture that doesn't instill that solipsistic armoring in its citizenry. And the victim subcultures are no less free from this proclivity.

So for me, it's racist *actions* that are subject to judgment. What comes out of my mouth? (Words are indeed actions.) How do I treat other people? What policies do I vote for, and whom do those policies impact? And when it comes to public figures, how are they using that stuff to manipulate voters? You don't have to *be* racist to do a really good job of practicing it. You don't have to hate somebody to step on his face. In one of our plays, a judge tells the defendant, "I don't look at the color of your skin, I look at your suit and tie."

As for Ron Paul, I don't really care about the racist issue. But if he was responsible for the pathetic shit that was quoted -- supposedly just saying "what people think" without contradicting it -- it doesn't reflect well on him. And if he wasn't responsible for it, how did it go out under his banner? As President would he fire the aide who, without his knowing it, bombed Iran? Sounds all too familiar.

Peace & joy—
Conrad

[OrchardDweller]

Here is some info on the $500 donation that Ron Paul received this quarter (out of over $18 million) from the one donor (out of 128,000) who fronts a racist group:

(article) Paul to keep donation from white supremacist
https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...e-supremacist/

(video) Ron Paul addresses $500 donation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT8vODRKCRQ


Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups. - Ron Paul

.

[OrchardDweller]

Don Black, the racist in question who donated $500 to Ron Paul doesn't himself think Ron Paul is a racist.

Black said he supports Paul's stance on ending the war in Iraq, securing America's borders and his opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants. "We know that he's not a white nationalist. He says he isn't and we believe him, but on the issues, there's only one choice."

https://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071220/ron_...cist.html?.v=1


These people don't think Ron Paul is racist either:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ji_Ft23BDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyBjBudbOVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJ9ZITd2rs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soKkoPpvi7o

[Paradox]

Much as Paul's enthusiasts are now doing a dance to try to hide his history, this is a real quote, from a real publication, that Ron Paul signed off on.

Sonomamark,

Ron Paul is not a racist. As a matter of fact Walter Williams is someone he has publicly stated would be a key person in his administration. He is black. If you are interested in who else he would appoint go: here


Also, why would a racist honor Muhammad Ali?

link

Rep. Ronald Paul [R-TX]:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of H. Res. 58. I saw Muhammad Ali as a man of great courage, and I admired him for this, not because of the courage that it took to get in a ring and fight men bigger than he, but because of his stance in 1967.In 1967, he was 25 years old. He was the heavyweight champion of the world, and for religious beliefs, he practiced what Martin Luther King made popular, civil disobedience, because he disagreed with the war. I thought his comments were rather astute at the time and were not complex, but he merely said, I have no quarrel with the Viet-Cong. He said the Viet-Cong never called him a name, and because of his religious convictions, he said he did not want to serve in the military. He stood firm, a man of principle, and I really admired this as a quality.
He is known, of course, for his athletic skills and his humanitarian concerns, and these are rightly mentioned in a resolution like this. But I do want to emphasize this because, to me, it was so important and had such impact, in reality, what Muhammad Ali did eventually led to getting rid of the draft, and yet we as a people and we as a Congress still do not have the conviction that Muhammad Ali had, because we still have the selective service; we say, let us not draft now, but when the conditions are right, we will bring back the draft and bring back those same problems that we had in the 1960s.
I see what Muhammad Ali did as being very great. He deserves this recognition, but we should also praise him for being a man of principle and willing to give up his title for 3 years at the age of 25 at the prime of his career. How many of us give up something to stand on principle? He was a man of principle. He believed it and he stood firm, so even those who may disagree with his position may say at least he stood up for what he believed in. He suffered the consequences and fortunately was eventually vindicated.

And for people actually interested in who Ron Paul is, please read his prophetic Anti-War essay from 2002 titled: A Foreign Policy for Peace, Prosperity and Liberty

If you cannot find a common ground with Ron Paul, chances are you are extremist.

~Paradox

[OrchardDweller]

Here is another feeble attempt to smear Dr. Ron Paul. This time about his view that the Civil War needn't have been fought to end slavery. It is sad to see "journalists" resort to snickering, ridiculing and even name calling when confronted by the truth.

Ron Paul on Morning Joe 12-27-07
https://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=356

.

[OrchardDweller]

Hey Independenteye, I thought I'd 'juicy up' this thread for you a bit. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeALvdXALaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIC81MJfWXQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTGXpX-_GtA

[Zeno Swijtink]

Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans only as members of groups and never as individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike; as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their intense focus on race is inherently racist, because it views individuals only as members of racial groups. - Ron Paul

I haven't read anything else by Ron Paul on racism and have to restrict myself to this one quote.

At first this seems to be the right position to take: To relate to anyone as s/he is, rather than seeing her/him as a member of a group, seems to respond to the person her/himself, really look her/him in the eyes and relate only in a direct, personal way.

And possibly, if everyone believed this, and acted accordingly, this would be the right thing.

But this is not what many people have been doing, or still do. People are favored, or discriminated against and marginalized , because of the groups they are perceived to be a part of.

One cannot be blind to this, and in particular public policy cannot be blind to this.

Does the quote means that Ron Paul is blind to this? In the sense that his favored public policy would not recognize at all the historical damage that racism has created and would not wish to reverse or correct these wrongs?

In particular, does he agree with Clarence Thomas in rejection affirmative action as a form of "racism?"

[OrchardDweller]

I haven't read anything else by Ron Paul on racism and have to restrict myself to this one quote.

At first this seems to be the right position to take: To relate to anyone as s/he is, rather than seeing her/him as a member of a group, seems to respond to the person her/himself, really look her/him in the eyes and relate only in a direct, personal way.

And possibly, if everyone believed this, and acted accordingly, this would be the right thing.

But this is not what many people have been doing, or still do. People are favored, or discriminated against and marginalized , because of the groups they are perceived to be a part of.

One cannot be blind to this, and in particular public policy cannot be blind to this.

Does the quote means that Ron Paul is blind to this? In the sense that his favored public policy would not recognize at all the historical damage that racism has created and would not wish to reverse or correct these wrongs?

In particular, does he agree with Clarence Thomas in rejection affirmative action as a form of "racism?"

Here's some links to help you understand Ron Paul's views on racism.

Ron Paul's website
https://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/

Ron Paul: 9-27-07 PBS Debate
part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLbPfci26wc
part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRN_EvCS1kM

Ron Paul library
https://www.ronpaullibrary.org/searc...h.php?q=racism

[OrchardDweller]

Ron Paul on Wars, Draft and Economy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fd67Dysipo

This is Ron Paul giving an excellent speech about the war, the draft and the economy to Students for Iowa on December 27th. Aired on CNN Ballot Bowl 1-1-07.