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  1. TopTop #241
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam: View Post
    I would have thought that a certain professionalism came along with owning/managing this website, and that would have included a response to a respectful question. It's revealing that you choose not to respond, Barry - not in a particularly good way.

    Somewhat surprising that no one else has either, though likely the fear of the stigma of being tarred with the "conspiracy" brush, 'step out o line and the man come and take you away'...
    And it's only beginning. Jude
    You are not going to get a whole lot of analysis out of our moderator, Judith. -Nor are you very likely to persuade him to read anything. He is just too busy. This is what his response is to everything that disturbs his little reality bubble:

    Barry Says - and I quote:

    Quote Fans of conspiracy theories see them everywhere! (Actually, Finell is just one of my sockpuppets )

    By the way Barry, Pleez do not delete the gif of the UFO that beams down to beam up the bouncing yellow ball, a la PacMan. It is precious.
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  3. TopTop #242
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Jude Iam wrote:
    "... more easily explained by stupidity." HARDLY.

    cui bono - cui bo·​no | \ ˈkwē-ˈbō-(ˌ)nō

    Definition of cui bono

    1: a principle that probable responsibility for an act or event lies with one having something to gain

    2: usefulness or utility as a principle in estimating the value of an act or policy

    First Known Use of cui bono. 1604, in the meaning defined at sense 1

    History and Etymology for cui bono -- Latin, to whose advantage?

    Barbara, you and Fred can Ha'Oponopono all you like, it's not going to stave off the future that's been planned and is playing out now.

    To be worthy of a handle like wisewomn, since you/he acknowledge that you don't know "what the fuck is going on", studying and awakening highly recommended, ASAP.


    It takes sustained effort to actually read and watch and listen, lots and lots. Yes, it takes time and focus.
    Then there is facing that darkness; emotional fortitude is required. Very few can and will and do.
    But if you do want to know what the fuck is going on, that's what you do.
    Jude


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn: View Post
    I learned a long time ago not to waste time or breath on drum-beaters and True Believers, Jude.
    So, evidently, wisewomn, you do concede that your mind is one that is closed? Ne c'est pas?

    I advocate the Method of Open-mindedness. As St. Paul wrote, “…there are many voices in the world, and none (of them) are without significance...” On the practical level, this is a mandate to Read everything, and to weigh it all in the balances of what Buddha called “Right Mindfulness.” That is the reason I have created such Verbal Sculptures as the following :

    !

    o

    "Coronavirus, Covid-19 , "lab" , "bio-weapon""

    (Web Search)

    o
    * Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar *
    @ the foot of the page

    Read
    !



    --It is because one must be open to “truth” from all quarters. To be able to do this, one must be ready to study, study, study. In the process of which, one shall verily encounter a multitude of lies and disinformation along the way. –All of which one must process.

    -And, in order to do that, One must exercise the use of the proper philosophical tools to sift out the lies from that which is Actual & Real. The word for Truth in the Koinonia Greek of the New Testament,
    ἀλήθεια, has the essential meaning: 'the uncovering of that-which-is' = essentially the Same meaning embodied in the concept of Buddhist Suchness
    !


    So, What are the proper philosophical tools that one needs to keep in one’s mental toolbox? I suggest that folks look into the Four Ko-Ti's of Buddhist Logic, and the Phenomenological Method of Heidegger and Husserl – for they are essentially the same methodology / modality; one Eastern, one Western.


    Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:

    Quote
    1. (If A is B), A is B
    2. A cannot be both B and not B
    3. A is either B or not B
    4. A is neither B nor not B
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 07-29-2020 at 02:25 AM.
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  4. TopTop #243
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman: View Post
    You are not going to get a whole lot of analysis out of our moderator, Judith. -Nor are you very likely to persuade him to read anything. He is just too busy. This is what his response is to everything that disturbs his little reality bubble:
    I'm ready to read certain things, such as the article Chauncey Gardener cited, and completely got wrong, with regard to polio. Most of the stuff you guys link is utter bullshit and I'm not going to dirty my mind with it.

    What say Chauncey, any more thoughts on polio?
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  6. TopTop #244
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by amayon: View Post
    It's a great list, some I've heard of, some I haven't, and yes, it's pathetic that Barry doesn't respond; Northern California is unfortunately a cult of cowardly, groupthinking sheeple, who are not going to get the message until it's probably too late, and then they're going to wimper and sob and beg to be saved.
    good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.
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  8. TopTop #245
    oldbaldman's Avatar
    oldbaldman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    "Easily available with a click", you said somewhere. Now that is some serious research. Yes Barry, why don't you read or listen to every posting of some asinine crap on the internet that satisfies someone's idea of "what's really happening"? You've clearly been brainwashed or wait, what, are you part of the cabal after all, a mole, sent to Sonoma County to control the narrative? Come clean.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam: View Post
    Hey, Ignoring TWO inquiries, OK, I get it - you don't want to answer.

    Anyone care to respond to my question? Interested, Jude...
    Last edited by Barry; 05-28-2020 at 10:26 AM.
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  10. TopTop #246
    oldbaldman's Avatar
    oldbaldman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Plandemic and the Meme-O-Sphere

    Now, as you may have noticed, things have ticked up a couple of notches in the meme-o-sphere into flat out batshit crazy (that’s a statistical term if you’re unfamiliar). You might have heard about/watched that new “documentary” Plandemic. In a bizarre turn of events, we happen to know Mikki Willis (the director and interviewer) fairly well––as his crew shot a short film of Flow Genome Project teaching at Esalen (which if you play backwards at 1.5 X speed, reveals that we are actually an Illuminati training front for the Templars ;).

    Since then, his editorial tastes have strangely skewed towards plumbing the deepest of rabbit holes, and judging by the viral uptake of this latest piece, so have millions of people around the world. You can check here for a solid overview of what is making this current crisis so utterly bewildering to so many.

    And here for an actual data driven analysis of how that particular Plandemic film made its way through the recesses of the ‘net.

    It’s interesting to note how our information ecology is super jacked up right now, and everyone from well-intentioned seekers of “truth” to chaos-inducing state and non-state actors are all, to borrow a phrase from the philosopher Steve Bannon “flooding the zone with shit.”

    But that’s not what we’re exploring today.

    What we’re exploring today sits at the intersection of neuroscience and psychology––namely, why are we all so suddenly susceptible to such enormous amounts of hogwash???

    Why Are We Collectively Losing Our Minds?

    To be sure––there are all the geopolitical actors, tech platform algorithms, fringe conspiracy theorists, etc. muddying things up almightily––but these seeds are landing in extra especially fertile soil in our minds right now––and here’s why.

    Our little amygdalas, oxytocin and dopamine.

    Given that we’ve been locked in our houses and glued to our seats for the past two months, it’s fair to say that our amygdalas––our threat detection systems––have been on super high alert. It really has mattered what’s going on in other countries, other states, even other counties––so our impulse to stay on top of every breaking news item, every hot-take, every “expert opinion” has skyrocketed.

    In the olden days––we would’ve been listening to the jungle drums, smoke signals and village gossip––now it’s morphed into Facebook and Instagram posts, YouTube binge watches and Whatsapp groups. We’re all desperate to get a handle on what might save us or kill us.

    Each time we listen to that amygdala alarm clock and find something that Stanford’s Robert Sapolsky calls “salient”––meaning it might make us or break us––we get a strong squirt of dopamine. Even if the news is shitty, it perversely feels good to have found it. Plug that “like”, click or view into Big Tech optimization algorithms, and we’re off on the ride of our lives.

    But a funny thing happens when we get too much dopamine in our systems...

    We succumb to Apophenia.

    It's the tendency to perceive patterns and meaning between otherwise unconnected events and facts.
    It shows up in early onset schizophrenia and...you guessed it, in conspiracy theorists.
    That’s not all. Especially when we’re all cooped up, separated from each other, unable to hug, kiss, and hang with our friends and family––our oxytocin levels plummet. This leaves us less trusting, more suspicious, more tribal and prone to paranoia.

    In the paper Oxytocin, Dopamine, and the Amygdala: A Neurofunctional Model of Social Cognitive Deficits in Schizophrenia, they lay it out:

    “It is hypothesized that aberrant interactions between dopaminergic reward systems, a dysfunctional amygdala, and the neurohormone oxytocin engender a neural milieu that improperly assigns emotional salience to environmental stimuli. This deficit in turn results in aberrant social cognition that may ultimately lead to misguided social responses, from withdrawal and isolation to suspicion and paranoia

    What now?

    So what to do about all of this “aberrant social cognition” (that’s the street term for ‘batshit crazy’)?
    Well, not entirely sure at this point, other than to say...

    • Love (and hug) the ones you’re with (it will return your oxytocin to healthy, pro-social levels)
    • Trust (but verify) all information you’re consuming (start with the two links we mentioned above) and realize that Bayesian Probability weighting is your friend when trying to parse complex and ambiguous data sets
    • Criticize by Creating (Michelangelo) There’s no shortage of things to gripe about and not much time to get things right #stayawakeandbuildstuff. .
    • Above all, be kind (Aldous Huxley). Because at the end of the day, if we miss this part, what on earth do we have to fight for or look forward to?

    That’s it for this week folks––just had a rad day in the wave park surfing with some great friends and my son (the waves were all evenly spaced six feet apart so don’t worry


    Hope you now have some fascinating cocktail party conversation for you next Zoom Quarantini sesh.
    When the subject of conspiracy theories comes up (and it will)...you’ll have your Big Thinky guns a-blazing.
    Continues here
    Last edited by Barry; 05-28-2020 at 11:02 AM.
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  12. TopTop #247
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    hey, jaime - so asking for material to be reviewed as the basis of the complex medical/economic/political/(dare i say it?!) spiritual reality we find ourselves navigating is just asking too much? "Now that is some serious research." Yep, I find this topic COMPELLING since it is determining my/our lives and the entire course of HISTORY.

    Have you taken in the breadth of what's being said, by people who've been working for decades in their fields? How much have you really looked into what's going on?


    It's complex and fascinating, learning along with the scientists, clinicians, investigative journalists, authors.

    While you - and most - eye veering away from the official narrative as looney, those of us who've committed some time and effort to "serious research", we've found A LOT. Of course you'll dismiss it all. Though you could not refute the science nor discredit the documented incidents, etc., etc.

    JUST COINCIDENCE. NO CONFLICT of INTEREST. No chance of bioweapon. Nor pattern of control. Global surveillance systems tracking EVERYONE small businesses bought by biggest players trillions corporate bailouts as poverty and misery pervasive. Climate unaddressed. Peoples uprisings quelled.
    I do not view capitalism USA 2020 as kind, as turning towards utopia rather than dystopia. I really wish I could feel cheerful. I don't.

    Anyway, I'm just paranoid schitzy ditzy. or have "
    “aberrant social cognition” (that’s the street term for ‘batshit crazy’)
    and definitely need loads more oxytocin. YES.

    AND, I, and a few others, ARE doing some serious research.

    You, I take it, have formed your conclusions on the basis of Fauci and Cuomo and Newsom, right? And news and interviews on NBC, CBS, Democracy Now, NPR, where else...?

    You are grateful to take the vaccine or whatever will be needed, soon as it's safely available, yes?
    We should all have the vaccine passports, yes? and infrared mark that shows we got the shot. the first shot. No prob.

    I think that's the basic dichotomy.
    Pray tell us. Jude


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by oldbaldman: View Post
    "Easily available with a click", you said somewhere. Now that is some serious research....
    Last edited by Barry; 05-28-2020 at 10:34 AM.
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  14. TopTop #248
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. ...
    The sources are limited to you because you read them with a limited attention span or none at all. Nobody is trying to make you submit to anything, but you have explicitly said vaccination is everyone's responsibility and that to "live free is to die." Plumb Jude's list with an interest in reality and learn why you're a fool.
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  16. TopTop #249
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Meme-O-Sphere, noosphere, paranoidosphere, bloposphere...yep, ideas tell us how to move our mouths and that bio-mental self-circus pretty much dictates our unnatural nature. It's an inner mud wrestling scuffle between perceptual input and feedback loops. Perceptual input is new data which is pretty inevitable being that we exist in time and all - new data is going to suffuse your next ten minutes like it or not. Feedback loops, or "foops", to use the medical dictionary term, do not like new data. Foops are basically little Energizer Bunnies that hate time and hate space - any space outside the imagined space that contains our thoughts. And foops have the irritating habit of self-magnification. So you can go from a state of mild vexation to lynch mob before you know it, in fact, always before you know it. Foopery actually is the fabled state of unknowing that the sages have warned us against these many centuries. Is the foop amygdalic at its core? Damned straight. That's where all them trauma memories are stored with a neuron trunk line straight to the reptile brain. You put a meme in a foop trunk line and you got a bot, an automaton, whose critical facilities reside at the virus level stamping out the helixes like Pay Day candy bars over at Wonka Industries. If the foop is your Pay Day then woe betide thee. Place your effort, and your extra effort as well as your supra effort and meta effort and, yes, even your elusive transcendental effort (which includes the elusive holy wish and the elusive holy wish alone), at foop avoidance. Feel your face at all times. May the ringing in your ears consume you while letting your knowledge teach your being instead of the meme saturated other way around. Nay the foop. That is the sum of my wisdom in the tick tock dimension.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by oldbaldman: View Post
    Plandemic and the Meme-O-Sphere
    ...
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  18. TopTop #250
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    "Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered..."

    Dr. Dolores Cahill

    Dr. Rashid Buttar


    Dr.
    V.A. Shiva Ayyadurai

    Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

    Del Bigtree

    Dr. Judy Mikovits

    James Corbett on Bill Gates

    Dr. Christiane Northrup

    Dr. Zach Bush

    Dr. Francis Boyle

    Michel
    Chossudovsky

    "...Interested in your response, Jude"

    There really is no excuse not to do the necessary hard work & study that it requires in order to get to the bottom of this thing. Those who refuse to see are willfully blind. =And= "There is none so blind as he / she who will not see." It is all here, just a "mouse-click away" as infojockey has stated.

    What we have here is a case of the so-called "liberals" being so bound by their group-think-ful fears of being perceived -or accused- by their peers of being a "conspiracy theorist" that they refuse to examine the report or testimony of anyone who is denounced by the Centrist MSM & the "Fact-Check" sites as being such {i.e., a "conspiracy theorist").

    If any of our fellow Wacovvians might take it in hand to consider themselves brave enough to venture out into
    waters that are very definitely over our collective heads, I would encourage you=all to just be bold, and click on the links above. Read. Study.
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 05-30-2020 at 08:01 AM.
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  19. TopTop #251
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.

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  21. TopTop #252
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman: View Post
    "Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered..."
    Last edited by Barry; 05-29-2020 at 12:13 PM.
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  23. TopTop #253
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Finell: View Post
    One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.

    In an interview with the National Geographic, Tony Fauci made comments about “alternative views” of the origin of the coronavirus. But he was really talking about all unorthodox medical information:

    “Anybody can claim to be an expert even when they have no idea what they’re talking about—and it’s very difficult for the general public to distinguish. So, make sure the study is coming from a reputable organization that generally gives you the truth—though even with some reputable organizations, you occasionally get an outlier who’s out there talking nonsense. If something is published in places like New England Journal of Medicine, Science, Nature, Cell, or JAMA—you know, generally that is quite well peer-reviewed because the editors and the editorial staff of those journals really take things very seriously.”

    Right you are, Tony.

    So, Tony, here is a very serious statement from a former editor of one of those “places,” the New England Journal of Medicine:

    “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” (Dr. Marcia Angell, NY Review of Books, January 15, 2009, “Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption")

    And here is another one, from the editor-in-chief of the prestigious journal, The Lancet, founded in 1823:

    “The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness…”

    “The apparent endemicity of bad research behaviour is alarming. In their quest for telling a compelling story, scientists too often sculpt data to fit their preferred theory of the world. Or they retrofit hypotheses to fit their data. Journal editors deserve their fair share of criticism too. We aid and abet the worst behaviours. Our acquiescence to the impact factor fuels an unhealthy competition to win a place in a select few journals. Our love of ‘significance’ pollutes the literature with many a statistical fairy-tale…Journals are not the only miscreants. Universities are in a perpetual struggle for money and talent…” (Dr. Richard Horton, editor-in-chief, The Lancet, in The Lancet, 11 April, 2015, Vol 385, “Offline: What is medicine’s 5 sigma?”)

    ( Source )
    Last edited by Barry; 05-29-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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  25. TopTop #254
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Amen!
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by geomancer: View Post
    Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-29-2020 at 12:27 PM.
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  27. TopTop #255
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    well, peter, snarky style notwithstanding, what actually distinguishes the group is LACK of adherence to "limited and narrowly ideological sources" which would have been apparent had you bothered to actually look at them.
    and your source for your hallowed, bonafide, 24 carat intel is... tv? or what, exactly? do share. jude

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.
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  28. TopTop #256
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam: View Post
    Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered...
    I've read some, in fact more than I'd like, considering I am trying to moderate this list...

    Some has value, some doesn't. Most of which is bridled with such a heavy agenda to find how they are out to get us, it's hard to read. James Corbett seems to be the best of the bunch and I've watched several of his videos. Others have varying levels of veracity and batshit craziness, including plenty of just making things up (such as the fake quote I posted about) that I'm not interested in parsing it.

    At some point I'll post some more thoughts about conspiracy theories (or maybe I'll hire Finell to do it for me ) but at the moment I'm trying to limit desk time as my back is out.

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  30. TopTop #257
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Finell: View Post
    One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.
    You fear outliers.

    We students of conspiracy genuinely fear the end of humanity. You naysayers fear... What?

    The end of your positions in the hierarchy. You like dominating and being dominated. You like smugly retorting about credible sources, without addressing the facts presented. That's why you're here, even though you're expressly disinterested in the subject.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-30-2020 at 10:28 AM.
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  32. TopTop #258
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Your attitude is clear, Richard, and history is replete with others who were/are a "life-long member of the scientific community".

    You'd be the first step up to light the pyre to burn Gallileo and anyone else who disrupts your paradigm.

    If you couldn't kill him, you'd make sure he was discredited, de-funded, and everything else in your power,
    anything but examining the work.

    You and your kind, arrogant and brutal, are responsible for holding back actual learning, while keeping yourself in positions of power as long as possible. There are many like you, all so very convinced of how right you are, while actually slowing down humanity's progress.

    Jude
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by geomancer: View Post
    Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-30-2020 at 10:29 AM.
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  34. TopTop #259
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by amayon: View Post
    You fear outliers.

    We students of conspiracy genuinely fear the end of humanity. You naysayers fear... What?

    The end of your positions in the hierarchy. You like dominating and being dominated. You like smugly retorting about credible sources, without addressing the facts presented. That's why you're here, even though you're expressly disinterested in the subject.
    this amateur psychoanalysis is really amazing. I never understand why that's such a common feature of interwebby interactions. Man, you don't even know if he's a dog*


    * or a sock puppet.
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  36. TopTop #260
    Finell's Avatar
    Finell
    Supporting Member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    You have it backward, Jude. Almost all scientists (and mathematicians) quickly accepted Galileo's paradigm-shifting theories—and the paradigm-shifting theories of Copernicus, Kepler, and Newton—because of the quality of the theoretical work, the soundness of the underlying mathematics, and the accompanying discoveries. That is how, and why, science works.

    On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. If you took the time and made the effort to learn the relevant science and math, you would see it as well.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam: View Post
    Your attitude is clear, Richard, and history is replete with others who were/are a "life-long member of the scientific community". ...
    Last edited by Barry; 05-30-2020 at 10:31 AM.
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  38. TopTop #261
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Finell: View Post
    You have it backward, Jude. Almost all scientists (and mathematicians) quickly accepted Galileo's paradigm-shifting theories...

    On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. ...
    Damn! Yes! Drop the mic!



    https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDSOvfaCO9b3MlO/html5
    Last edited by Barry; 05-30-2020 at 10:36 AM.
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  39. TopTop #262
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Well, Steven, here we are again - attempting to sort truth out. OK, LET'S.

    Are you familiar with Popper's 4 stages of scientific progress? Without quoting exactly, I recall that they're something like, first new theories are dismissed as absurd, then then railed against, then they're considered, then adopted and deemed obvious - just until the next round of paradigm-shifting discoveries.


    By your statement, you imply that you know the "relevant science and math" - great -
    and also that you can prove that the people on the list are "obvious frauds and charlatans".

    So I challenge you to do both, without begging off with any excuses.

    Without that, your words are no more than neener neener - empty and hollow.
    Jude

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Finell: View Post
    You have it backward, Jude. ...

    On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. If you took the time and made the effort to learn the relevant science and math, you would see it as well.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-30-2020 at 10:38 AM.
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  40. TopTop #263
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    barry - well, response at last, such as it is. glad you've gotten to james corbett, a good start.

    though as for the rest:

    "...trying to moderate this list" - too 'busy' to actually examine the work.

    "hard to read" - actually most is video; regardless, it's not cartoons, it does require the effort of focus for comprehension.

    "my back is out" - a laptop allows positions to suit your body.

    excuses and dismissal without specificity of refutation is patently meaningless.

    if you want to stay with the mainstreammedia story, exactly what the government wants you to know and do, it's easier, much easier, BUT NOT NECESSARILY TRUE - in fact, as we all (?) know, there are very many reasons why it is NOT.

    should you ever want to look into examples of why everyone ought to be VERY suspect of that, you could read any number of works on governments/regimes and the populations they control and "false flags", etc.

    paragraphs below from book i just came across out on the subject (I have not read this; i include it because you mention conspiracies. again.) so, at the risk of redundancy, here:

    "False Flags are real, though the Deep State prefers you believe they are the product of “unhinged conspiracy nuts.” False flags are real and have been used on many occasions to advance nations into war, change regimes or radically sway public opinion. But not every event is a false flag and not every conspiracy theory is correct, as there are literally hundreds of them circulating for every national crisis that is mentioned in the news. And behind the scenes are government forces—domestic and foreign—working to infiltrate and undermine those organizations that best analyze the available data and threaten to expose the perfidy of the false-flag orchestrators.In this book are chapters on some of the best-known false flags in American history and a few chapters on strange events, shootings, and bombings that have spurred some seemingly incredible theories.

    Author Clint Lacy examines the official narratives of each of these events (and many more) and then provides information that contradicts the official story, proving that we, as citizens, need to be ever vigilant, refusing to accept without independent investigation any scenario the Deep State foists upon us."

    jude
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    I've read some, in fact more than I'd like,...
    Last edited by Jude Iam; 05-30-2020 at 12:47 PM.
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  41. TopTop #264
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"


    Debunking the Debunkers


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by geomancer: View Post
    I'm ready to read certain things, such as the article Chauncey Gardener cited, and completely got wrong, with regard to polio. Most of the stuff you guys link is utter bullshit and I'm not going to dirty my mind with it.
    Quote amayon wrote:
    It's a great list, some I've heard of, some I haven't, and yes, it's pathetic that Barry doesn't respond; Northern California is unfortunately a cult of cowardly, groupthinking sheeple, who are not going to get the message until it's probably too late, and then they're going to wimper and sob and beg to be saved.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by geomancer: View Post
    Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Finell: View Post
    You have it backward, Jude. Almost all scientists (and mathematicians) quickly accepted Galileo's paradigm-shifting theories—and the paradigm-shifting theories of Copernicus, Kepler, and Newton—because of the quality of the theoretical work, the soundness of the underlying mathematics, and the accompanying discoveries. That is how, and why, science works.

    On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. If you took the time and made the effort to learn the relevant science and math, you would see it as well.

    Look, and look good: Richard Ely, aka geomancer; Peter Lipson, aka podfish, and Steve Finell. You have made your points. I don't think there is much more to be said - unless you just want to go on repeating yourselves endlessly like a broken record.

    As the originator of this thread, I am asking that you leave, politely, by the front door and go back to your respectable white-collar, blue-pill ward, and leave us darkies what have been quarantined by Barry in this - his designated, "red-pill" ward - alone. This here ward is for those of us who have been niggerized & branded as "conspiracy theorists"

    You ain't got nothing to contribute here, in the "Coronavirus/Conspiracy" Ward. You have proven that abundantly, again & again. Y'all are slumming, kibitzing & trolling, to boot. This here ward is for those of us who have taken the time to read 'alternative' sources -which you folks refuse to do.

    I think I am within the bounds of reasonable discourse to state my case so bluntly because Barry has quarantined this one ( i ) to have a privileged seat in the back of the bus. Barry knows what I am talking about since I shared my dream (trauma) with him. CHORUS: "Do you have a Dream?" A. Yes I gots one.

    Hitherto, Barry, our erstwhile Faifax-based moderator, has repeatedly demanded of me in 'personal' e-mails that I stop posting on certain threads. Evidently, he thought that I was incapable of "acting responsibly about coronavirus" -Or perhaps he just wanted to impose a little "social distancing' on this one. He has also moved my comments from the threads where I posted them back into the isolation of this "red-pill" ward.

    So I think I have earned the right to ask for Barry to respect the same rule that he imposed on me back during the time that he booted me out of the "
    Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread. I had more to say there - about how we-all should stock up on grains & foods that can keep; more about herbs, etc.

    The only time that I make it uptown into your blue-pill ward these days is to deliver news - as a news-boy. -And when I do that, I present it as a document that I have processed in Microsoft Word (TM) (damn that Bill Gates) and I deliver the paper straight to your door. I don't engage in trolling over there, in your 'hood. I is very respectful - like a good old field-negro s'posed to be.

    Mos' ob de time, massa Barry see fit to send my missives back here into the red-pill ward, but dat don't stop me none from doing what I consider to be my God-given duty: to warn all
    you west county honkeys about what's coming.

    Now if y'all want to seriously open up any of those mighty dangerous links that abound on this thread - or if any of you chose to engage in a dialog with me about some of the statements I post here - either my own words -or- the words of others - I welcome the chance to debate with you on whatever points you might chose to address. -For that is the nature of dialog. But to merely go "nanner, nanner" isn't.

    Bottom Line: You have all made your point - the same point. Your minds are closed. Now go away. You are cluttering up my thread and the whole red-pill ward with inane, stupid comments. Go away. Dis de Ghetto. You on de wrong side of the tracks. What you doing down heah?

    Last edited by Mayacaman; 06-03-2020 at 10:31 PM.
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  43. TopTop #265
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    this amateur psychoanalysis is really amazing. I never understand why that's such a common feature of interwebby interactions. Man, you don't even know if he's a dog*


    * or a sock puppet.
    And you don't even know what you're doing here, besides proving my point.
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  44. TopTop #266
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    This thread is beginning to sound like the previous climate change arguments: a few scientists declare it's a hoax, while 98-99% scientists worldwide say it's real. Add to that the reality we are experiencing with extreme weather, deteriorating ecosystems, species die-off, famine, water shortages, pandemics, virus mutations, etc. etc.

    Looks to me like climate change is real and happening with or without Bill Gates, Agenda 21, and other straws the Chicken Littles of this world are grasping at. I'm going with the majority of the scientists and the evidence of my eyes even though there is a certain attraction for some people to being in the martyred and misunderstood minority.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam: View Post
    Well, Steven, here we are again - attempting to sort truth out. OK, LET'S.
    ...
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  46. TopTop #267
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    The big question, behind all the signal noise, the gesticulations, the paroxysms, obviously is - WHO IS THE MOST DELUDED. It's that ding dong realpolitik simple. Care to tell me why the left was caught absolutely flat footed by Trump's victory? The wailing rattled windows and cracked the earth. But the polls. Yah, well the polls were wrong. But the Russians. Yah, well the Steele Dossier was sewage as newly declassified documents establish and coming indictments will illustrate. Care to tell me why a two year long $30 million Mueller investigation, two subsequent "blockbuster"hearings, a mute "blockbuster" whistleblower who never testified, a full on rock crusher impeachment attempt...all failed? You can jump and gyre all you wish over corruption, unfairness, public stupidity, inertias of thought, karmic instability, gnostic corporeality and great convolutions of yadda yadda, yet the Trumpeyman still rules. It all spells failure and nothing spells failure like DELUSION, which is basically an inability to predict. I don't even know why I'm writing this since encouraging the left's delusion has obviously been a winning prospect. So pay no attention, continue trying everything in your magic hat to bring down the 7 Headed Beast of the Apocalypse and I'll go on Amazon to order a new popcorn maker cuz I burnt out the old one and this paradigm-ready ENDGAME circus is just getting started.
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  47. TopTop #268
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman: View Post
    ....As the originator of this thread, I am asking that you leave, politely, by the front door and go back to your respectable white-collar, blue-pill ward, and leave us darkies what have been quarantined by Barry in this - his designated, "red-pill" ward - alone. This here ward is for those of us who have been niggerized & branded as "conspiracy theorists"

    You ain't got nothing to contribute here, in the "Coronavirus/Conspiracy" Ward........

    Bottom Line: You have all made your point - the same point. Your minds are closed.

    well, we're making our point badly if all you see is that 'our minds are closed'. And sorry, but the fact that you're using this medium means you're subject to comments. Note the big button below -- this forum is a forum because it invites interactions. People post things; others respond. If you find the responses repetitive, sorry. Many of the posts here seem like rehashes of previous ones. I feel little inclination to react to most of them - it has to be a pretty egregiously incompetent source that you reference for me to challenge your citation of them. When a post makes a lazy dismissal of someone's point of view as 'blue-pill', or creates an imaginary back-story that explains the motivation of a poster, I do tend to want to reply. But I'm most interested in failures of logic. Which I would think you would actually want to respond to in kind. Now, if you don't want anyone but those in your bubble, I think you'd be better off with a podcast or a website without comments.
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  49. TopTop #269
    margritmy cat
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory

    I wonder what would happen if for just one day, no one had to give a comment about Covid theories. There seems to be a lot of ego at stake here. I am on the verge of stopping my receipt of this zine, but like it for other reasons. Take a break.
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  50. TopTop #270
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    See my comment below:

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam: View Post
    Well, Steven, here we are again - attempting to sort truth out. OK, LET'S.

    Are you familiar with Popper's 4 stages of scientific progress? Without quoting exactly, I recall that they're something like, first new theories are dismissed as absurd, then then railed against, then they're considered, then adopted and deemed obvious - just until the next round of paradigm-shifting discoveries.
    Please give an example of Stage 4. Off the top of my head I can think of numerous revolutionary scientific theories in the 20th Century that were not "obvious" beforehand: Einstein's Special & General theories of relativity, quantum mechanics & the Standard Model, the expanding universe-big bang cosmology, DNA, continental drift/plate tectonics, nanotechnology, etc.

    I got my Master's degree in stratigraphy & paleontology in 1969, the same year the fully-developed theory of plate tectonics was synthesized at the GSA Asilomar Penrose Conference (December). I had favored the hypothesis of continental drift since taking my first structural geology course in 1960; the matching topography and geology across the South Atlantic were convincing even though the driving mechanism(s) was obscure; this still is an unsettled question today.

    It was the understanding of the tectonics of the oceanic crust in the 1960's that allowed the hypothesis of continental drift to evolve into the theory of plate tectonics. It was an exciting time to be a geologist, made more so by living through the revolutionary fervor in Berkeley during the Vietnam War.

    Quote By your statement, you imply that you know the "relevant science and math" - great -
    and also that you can prove that the people on the list are "obvious frauds and charlatans".

    So I challenge you to do both, without begging off with any excuses.

    Without that, your words are no more than neener neener - empty and hollow.
    As my teenage boys used to say, you can't make me!
    Last edited by Barry; 05-31-2020 at 10:33 AM.
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