What do you believe about the "homeless" population in general? A social worker's comment

[Shandi]

"There is a high percentage of homeless that choose to live this way because they are addicts. They cannot go into the shelters, because they cannot actively use there. There is enough beds in this county to house and feed all of the homeless in this county but they choose not to go because of their addictions. Don’t let them fool you into feeling sorry for them. Most of them make more money than those of us that work, either by selling drugs and/or panhandling.

They usually sell the gift cards for cash to buy drugs. Not all, but a high percentage. I know for those of you that don’t deal with these folks on a daily basis, it does make you feel good to do something nice but these folks generally feel entitled to hand outs and play on your “deep pockets” and will continue to take advantage of you. Any homemade bag lunches, usually get tossed in the trash."

I've known several homeless people, and became close to being one myself, if not for the kindness of someone who didn't even know me very well. The people I've known weren't drug addicts, but of course many are, and may have become in order to face a harsh reality.

Even people who have homes, choose addiction of one kind or another to escape from their own realities.

[gypsey]

SHandi
Can you attribute where this quote came from and what this social worker's role is in terms of working with the homeless? Most people I know who work with the homeless are realistic, yes, but compassionate and not judgmental. This quote for instance says nothing about the population of homeless with children who simply can't afford (or were one paycheck away) from a home in our high rent county. Thanks.

"There is a high percentage of homeless that choose to live this way because they are addicts. ...

[luke32]

Homelessness is such a complicated issue. Here is a place to start getting educated (KQED)

[Shandi]

This was a post on RPk.Nextdoor in response to a neighbor's attempt to organize ways to help feed the homeless. The social worker received some unwelcome replies, and has since deleted her comments. I don't know what her role is, only that she'd been to the camps, and spoke with authority about what she knew of most of the homeless population.

I was only one of several people who stood up to what I called "painting the homeless with one brushstroke".

Can you attribute where this quote came from and what this social worker's role is in terms of working with the homeless? ...

[Beanie]

In doing a little research for a project a while back (and I am NOT an expert) I was educated enough to see that some of my thoughts on homeless were quite narrow.

Homeless can be made up of any of these and even more:
People seeking shelter from abuse
Drug / Alcohol issues
Mental issues
Physical issues
Jobless/moneyless
Personal choice

my realization was that there is not just one answer, but multi, multi level issues.

[Jude Iam]

The statement that there are enough beds in Sonoma County to shelter everyone without a home (about 3,000 people) is absolutely false. And know that some of the shelters are huge spaces with many cots in them, in which many people cannot rest/sleep.

I would certainly become "mentally ill" after a few nights on the streets. Sleep deprivation is recognized as torture because we break down as a result. Sleep disturbance and deprivation is very common without a home. Jude

"There is a high percentage of homeless that choose to live this way because they are addicts. They cannot go into the shelters, because they cannot actively use there. There is enough beds in this county to house and feed all of the homeless in this county but they choose not to go because of their addictions. Don’t let them fool you into feeling sorry for them. ...

[Dorothy Friberg]

One thing I would also add are that these "shelters" while a welcome relief from the elements and provide a warm dinner; are also places where predators and the shrewd street wise folk who choose it as a way of life reside. They (the street wise) have cycled through so many times that they become bullies to vulnerable folk who are new to the 'game'.

One experience I had at Sam Jones was during particularly cold winter weather and in the morning when it was time to 'vacate' for the day a woman in a cot near mine tried to hide herself in the blankets so as not to leave. She was discovered and sent out on the street. That night she died in a bathroom somewhere, unknown except to the coroner. I never learned if it was suicide.

[Dorothy Friberg]

Very individual issues, countless issues which can become very complex problems. One benefit (provided you survive) Is a strengthening of said individual. Provided she survives.

In doing a little research for a project a while back (and I am NOT an expert) I was educated enough to see that some of my thoughts on homeless were quite narrow.

Homeless can be made up of any of these and even more:
People seeking shelter from abuse
Drug / Alcohol issues
Mental issues
Physical issues
Jobless/moneyless
Personal choice

my realization was that there is not just one answer, but multi, multi level issues.

[Dogenzip]

Shandi's post that "There is (are) enough beds in the county to house and feed all of the homeless" shows how little she knows about the homeless/housing crisis that is taking place in the Bay Area and much of urbanized America. There are simply not enough shelter beds, nor more importantly, affordable housing to meet the need. This is not just a housing crisis, it is a crisis of our economy, the immense concentration of wealth, tax policy, and the huge giveaway to banks that occurred during the Obama administration. Add to this the loss of 5% of Sonoma County homes during the recent fires. Many of those who homes were destroyed by fire did not have replacement insurance, and therefore could no longer purchase similar housing in the area.

[jesswolfe]

Also, the things that affect homelessness can be different for different ages, different identities, different social pressures. For example we have a lot of homeless youths. Some are homeless because of abuse. Some are former foster care youths. Some are exiled because of gender identify, or LGBTQ. There a lot of reasons people become exiled. Many of the reasons are beyond their control. But as a culture we blame people for their circumstances. It’s not helpful. Each person has a story, a trauma they are dealing with.

Jessica

I was educated enough to see that some of my thoughts on homeless were quite narrow.Homeless can be made up of any of these and even more:People seeking shelter from abuseDrug / Alcohol issuesMental issuesPhysical issuesJobless/moneylessPersonal choicemy realization was that there is not just one answer, but multi, multi level issues.

[jesswolfe]

For folks who think shelters are the answer, you don’t know what being homeless is like. You have a time limit on how long you can stay in a shelter or cycle thru again. And there are NOT enough beds for everyone. Being in a shelter can be a harrowing experience. Ever been in a tiny room with your kid, hearing people screaming or fighting all night? I have. You can’t sleep. You never feel safe. Ever had all your belongings tossed for arbitrary reasons while you are in a shelter? It happens a lot. Plus the shelters try to get people in housing but the way they do it doesn’t really help. It’s shaming and discounts the actual circumstances of the person or family who is homeless. We roust people from camping but there are no long term alternatives. Where are they supposed to go?.

It’s very easy to make assumptions when you have a nice warm home to stay in. It’s also very easy to blame people for their own circumstances. That’s exactly what happened to the folks who were already homeless during the fires.

Jessica

[SonomaPatientsCoop]

Back in the days of prohibition I ended up homeless for a number of years because of legal issues....

It's easy to believe the homeless are that way because of drug (including alcohol) addictions. It's also easy to believe the cause is mental health issues- which we can bame on the failures of the state (whether local state or federal state).

The reality is far more complicated. Many of the homeless - you'd never think were homeless when you see them. Except maybe their unwillingness to make eye contact. Maybe noticing they were in the same clothes you saw them in yesterday. Many are people. Families. Who because of some event/combination of events became homeless. Millions of Americans are one event away from homelessness- many of whom are at risk because of deaths, mental health/drug/alcohol issues in their family, and/or sexual/physical abuse in their family have no family safety net.

And many youth that "choose" to become homeless - they are escaping physical/mental/sexual abuse.

And a sad reality is that homelessness is hard. It degrades you. You never feel safe- and sadly the societal forces that are supposed to protect you all too often don't give a flying ^*)# about you. And many of the services available to you are faith based- which turns away a large number of people. And pride... one of the 7 deadly sins I guess... many don't want to ask for help. You want to believe this is only a temprary setback- and that you are a good enough person you can pull yourself out of this.

I'm not going to denythat drug addiction plays a large role- especially among the most obviously homeless. I'd say in the past decade or so this was made much worse by the drug companies and the use of strong opoids. In the decade or so before it was th combination of the arrival of "chiva" or "tar" heroin - smokeable or nose drops. And after decades of government and society lying about the dangers of evrything from cannabis to LSD many assumed they were lying about heroin too. Sadly not so much.

And I'll tell you... it doesen't take a long time to give up hope when you're homeless. And I'll also say- even when you have friends and/or family... when they are just getting by... it doesen't take much time to wear out your welcome or leave because of the burden you feel you are creating....

[Clayton Thomas Lynch]

Some have become homeless because they actually have Morals and couldnt/wouldnt fit anywhere in a corrupt system of un-socio economics... Its true... too big of hearts in a wold thatsees everything through their eyes and a wallet... "There will be a day when no one can work!"-Jesus Ugggghhh The Truth stings...

[Shandi]

Can you explain what "Jesus" meant by the quote "There will be a day when no one can work!"?

Some have become homeless because they actually have Morals and couldnt/wouldnt fit anywhere in a corrupt system of un-socio economics... Its true... too big of hearts in a wold thatsees everything through their eyes and a wallet... "There will be a day when no one can work!"-Jesus Ugggghhh The Truth stings...

[Clayton Thomas Lynch]

"Noone can work" ie. labor... more accurately...Robotic Automation for one... taking over jobs, which we have already begun this... They are stating a universal income soon because... Robots are indeed replacing human labor... Sooooooo

Can you explain what "Jesus" meant by the quote "There will be a day when no one can work!"?

[BethLinley]

I do not know what he meant but whomever invented work should have finished it. Read what Buckminister Fuller, and others, have to say on the subject of work.

[tommy]

There is a value in work, for the individual. It can give meaning, purpose, & good health. Seeing a person in their 60s, at work in Home Depot or Walmart … I always have positive vibes for that person - that they’re doing something w their lives. It beats sitting home & watching Netflix mini series.

Demonizing work as a mindless aspect of automation is pretty mindless. Complaining about social systems is a lazy way to nowhere.

However I bless us & love u for expressing your views!

[podfish]

There is a value in work, for the individual. It can give meaning, purpose, & good health. Seeing a person in their 60s, at work in Home Depot or Walmart … I always have positive vibes for that person - that they’re doing something w their lives. It beats sitting home & watching Netflix mini series. ...

'in their 60s, at work' ... I thought you were talking about old people. But anyway, this is one of the aspects that I have tremendous ambivalence about, one where I'm really sure I can't predict accurately how society might/should change. There are practical issues involved about rejiggering an economy where robots can do all the work -- meaning fully-automated systems will be possible that can do construction and production of people's physical necessities.

In one sense, when that happens no-one will 'need' to work again. But sometimes you can't get there from here - similarly to the way once land is claimed, it's either stolen or deeded to someone else. Sometimes it's put into public use, usually that requires government ownership. So someone's going to buy the robots. That robot won't work for other people's benefit unless the original purchaser (ok, push it back to the builder - the logic's the same) is reimbursed. So you still have an economy based on people needing to come up with money or the equivalent that they give to the rentiers. And the cycle continues.

As Tommy mentions, the social implications are worse. Steven Hawkings, or for that matter Steve Jobs, would work as hard or harder if there was no money involved. They might not work at the same things, though - is that good or bad? (actually, neither would be working - they're both dead but you get my drift). Most artists of various types would probably find it better, as would most craftspeople and dedicated hobbyists - Sears' Point would be humming. Although even there, economic forces have factored strongly in many artists' lives.

Then there's the (offensive, I know) stereotypical hillbilly crackhead. (Ignoring the underground economy's influence on how/why that happens). Is there really a large number of people, who, if not pushed by economic need, would sit on their butts all day as Tommy posits? I can't swear I wouldn't be one myself. I think I'd love to have the opportunity to find out! but even then, the way the first generation or two responds isn't really indicative -- it'll take a while for society to adjust.

What a brave new world, that has such questions in 't

[Shandi]

Just FYI: This is NOT my quote, but one that was posted in my Nextdoor, by a social worker, who has removed it because of backlash.

Shandi's post that "There is (are) enough beds in the county to house and feed all of the homeless" shows how little she knows about the homeless/housing crisis that is taking place in the Bay Area and much of urbanized America. There are simply not enough shelter beds, nor more importantly, affordable housing to meet the need. This is not just a housing crisis, it is a crisis of our economy, the immense concentration of wealth, tax policy, and the huge giveaway to banks that occurred during the Obama administration. Add to this the loss of 5% of Sonoma County homes during the recent fires. Many of those who homes were destroyed by fire did not have replacement insurance, and therefore could no longer purchase similar housing in the area.

[Shandi]

Beth, What do you mean by "whomever invented work should have finished it."? Sorry to seem so dense, but it doesn't make sense. I haven't read anything by Buckminister Fuller in many years, but I will share my own experience of "work".

From my first official job as a worker's comp claims clerk at 18, I saw work as as "job", and a way to make money. Although I did enjoy my first job, because I was in charge of making sure the claimants got their checks, and I had a wonderful boss. I even cried when I left that job to work at Sears, with my mother-in-law, who initiated my move so we could spend more time together.

After I married a year later, I started working at various other jobs. I never experienced the same joy of working, until I started my own business 20 years later. It was so unexpected that I would actually look forward to Mondays, and many times I took work home with me, along with books on entrepreneurship and advertising/print design.

I began to realize that more people might experience joy in work if they were using their innate talents working for themselves. I began doing workshops for women to explore their talents and how they could develop a business with them. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur, and I had never imagined that I was one, until I reluctantly started my own business.

Many people, maybe even most in our culture, have no family role models for entrepreneurship. I certainly didn't. Also, everyone isn't cut out to attend college, and these days a college degree doesn't guarantee a high paying "job".

In my opinion, I think that every child could benefit from early entrepreneurship. Examples are lemonade stands, yard work, baby sitting, and various other kinds of sales. Because no matter what kind of business we choose, it will involve sales and marketing of our unique offerings.

I wish it was a required subject starting in elementary school, progressing to more complexity in high school. It can instill confidence, self-esteem, and pride, especially if there are positive role models and guidance.

Even if someone chooses to work for "the man", at least they'd have some exposure to options for making a living.

I do not know what he meant but whomever invented work should have finished it. Read what Buckminister Fuller, and others, have to say on the subject of work.

[Shandi]

I believe that robots will take away some jobs, especially the kind that can be easily replaced, but look what Tech Crunch has to say on the subject: Robots won’t just take jobs, they’ll create them
This article echos what I've believed for a long time. Maybe this should be posted as another subject?

Some excerpts from the article:

"Cars drive themselves. Robots deliver pizza. A revolution is underway. According to a 2013 University of Oxford study, half of American jobs could be automated within the next two decades. The study identified transportation,logistics and administrative jobs as the most vulnerable to automation. Others assert it is only a matter of time before robots replace teachers, travel agents, interpreters and a host of other professions.
With the prospect of such jobs disappearing, many futurists and economists are considering the possibility of a jobless future. Their predictions of what this would look like usually center around two scenarios: a dystopia where humans no longer have jobs or incomes, leading to increased income inequality and social upheaval, or a utopia where governments give incomes to their citizens, who will then be able to lead more productive, creative and entrepreneurial lives.

I think it’s time to look at this in a different way: Robots in the workforce present an opportunity to stimulate job growth and create new types of work. Robots will not merely take jobs, they'll also create them."

"Noone can work" ie. labor... more accurately...Robotic Automation for one... taking over jobs, which we have already begun this... They are stating a universal income soon because... Robots are indeed replacing human labor... Sooooooo

[podfish]

I think it’s time to look at this in a different way: Robots in the workforce present an opportunity to stimulate job growth and create new types of work. Robots will not merely take jobs, they'll also create them."

as a practical matter, I think you're right. The smart way to bet is that we'll change as few things as possible to accommodate disruptive forces. But this time, it's pretty disruptive and the status quo is looking a bit shakey. Still, there are tons of time in history, both recent and long past, who would think our times are better than anything they could have imagined.

Kind of sad, really, that that's true!

[Glia]

while you are at it, read what Buckminster Fuller had to say about GRUNCH shortly before he died, which is now being echoed to some extent by Robert Kiyosaki.

Andrew Yang is right: robots are going to take your job, so humans need to find something more productive and satisfying to do.

I do not know what he meant but whomever invented work should have finished it. Read what Buckminister Fuller, and others, have to say on the subject of work.

[Barry]

while you are at it, read what Buckminster Fuller had to say about GRUNCH shortly before he died, which is now being echoed to some extent by Robert Kiyosaki.

I'd be interested in seeing some links about Bucky's thoughts about "work" and "GRUNCH"