Sonoma Co: OFF THE GRID?

[fillo]

Abbie Hoffman, Wendell Berry, Henry Thoreau, Buckminster Fuller, Edward Abbey, Wavvy Gravy, Lou Gottlieb, Luther Burbank

I need some ideas, I need some contacts, I need English. The PRMD does not seem like the place to go. Are you under-the-radar-off-the-grid? ...or KNOW!! about it? Help! I wanna. Specifically, I would like to talk to people that know WHAT, exactly, is LEGAL and transform my living methods (m.o.) to fit the law. I have, or can-have land. It wll be alternative, no doubt, but I'm willing (for the near future, anyway). I'd like to know the limits on possibilities for non-permited construction; for "camping" (squatting on your own land, or "temporary residence") in unincorporated lands; for housing on wheels etc etc. I could migrate, like a Junco. Trailers with "septic" on wheels, etc. Generator? Please speak to me. ciao fillo

[Hot Compost]

this reminds me of that sculpture off Highway 101 near the Marin/Sonoma county line.

i don't know if it's a sculpture or also a wind generator, but it's a great example of a small scale vertical axis wind turbine.

However, if you tried to build one, you'd be spending $10K on the parts & $100K on zoning BS.

i have dealt with PRMD on land purchase type info gathering, e.g. sitting down with the Septic people to see how a property looked relative to a 100 year flood. for stuff like that, they are super helpful.

Ran Prieur's landblog sort of talks about this kind of stuff.
Landblog

there are advantages to being WAAAAY in the boonies, in terms of avoiding the scrutiny of county people who like boosting revenues by writing tickets for zoning violations.

also, it depends a lot on the county. my stepfather got a $10 ticket for having a mobile home on his property, in addition to a regular house. for him this was very upsetting, but compared to what it could have been - e.g. a similar zoning violation in Sonoma County - he got off very easily for $10.

on the other hand, some of the zoning stuff is good. i know some Sonoma land-owners that grouse about the country fire control people that give you $1000+ tickets if your grass gets to long. on the other hand, i've seen 3 large fires up close & personal (Oakland hills, San Diego 199? and San Diego 2003), so, i actually don't have a problem with those county people. it creates jobs for goat-herders.

i guess Wacco is a good place to ask, because some of the members are in West County. i looked at a piece of land in Bodega that had a trailer on it, with someone living there. there were numerous zoning violations, and it was owned by one of Sonoma Counties largest & wealthiest families ... i wonder if that had anything to do with the county's looking the other way.

i think it's very possible to "go feral" or however you want to say it, in Sonoma County. I can think of a few places where a person could live without having to deal with zoning.

also, there are clever ways around the zoning. I haven't seen any laws prohibiting you from putting solar panels on top of a van. if you can get by with 100 watts & use a solar oven & find ways to have a healthy amount of social interaction, you can side-step some of the regulations that would be levied on a "hard-wired" solar installation.

[Peace Voyager]

Hi,

To find out more about a high quality portable solar generator; please see Solman :: Portable Solar Energy.

Also, please post the other answers you get.

Best wishes,

Colleen



[email protected]

Abbie Hoffman, Wendell Berry, Henry Thoreau, Buckminster Fuller, Edward Abbey, Wavvy Gravy, Lou Gottlieb, Luther Burbank

I need some ideas, I need some contacts, I need English. The PRMD does not seem like the place to go. Are you under-the-radar-off-the-grid? ...or KNOW!! about it? Help! I wanna. Specifically, I would like to talk to people that know WHAT, exactly, is LEGAL and transform my living methods (m.o.) to fit the law. I have, or can-have land. It wll be alternative, no doubt, but I'm willing (for the near future, anyway). I'd like to know the limits on possibilities for non-permited construction; for "camping" (squatting on your own land, or "temporary residence") in unincorporated lands; for housing on wheels etc etc. I could migrate, like a Junco. Trailers with "septic" on wheels, etc. Generator? Please speak to me. ciao fillo

[newclay]

Ok, here goes... I have been waiting for folks to finally jump in on this very serious issue to a quite A+B=SEE solution... I have been researching and calling the County regarding rural living... first of all, most the Regs. mention "urban" housing, not "rural"... They had this issue back in the 60s...remember? Anywho... There is permitting for RV and Accessory Dwellings... up to Dec. 31st 2019... yes, two year window. Its great, both for property owners and folks needing affordable shelter!

So heres the deal... Water has to be {city or well on property}, Sewage has to be {Porta Potty, or any storage tank that is pumpable or hook into current septic} Electricity! This is where there is a discrepancy...big time in my opinion. It states you have to tap into a private company utility system. Not Off Grid Electric! Anyone really want to support PG& E right now anyway? UhhhHmmm? Anywho... So research further finds Senate Bill SB-1069 in play here... State "mandate? for County and city to deal with much needed homeless shelters needed waaay before the fires.

Sooo. There is some verbage in SB 1069 that prohibits using the need to hook into "the grid" as being a reason to keep folks from having warm, safe shelters. Makes sense! Especially considering...What was the whole point of technological advancements if this is not one of the greatest benefits.

Contact Clay to get more info...

I am actually looking for https://www.intershelter.com/ clients... to place these great solutions and help advise as to set up and creating a very nice off-grid living for very affordable.

I am looking for co-signing for finances to move forward and help start placing folks. We do plan to contact someone at the Redwood Credit Union... Any referrals appreciated.
Blessings to all in the Storm...
let's connect... Maybe we could do breakfast at Howard's in Occidental for a meetup regarding this.
-Clay Inthepottershands

[Mediajammer]

Clay, It's not clear to me what 'deal' this is. Something new by the Sups to help out after the fire?

Is this under 'Temporary Occupancy of Travel Trailers, Recreational Vehicles and Mobile Homes' doc that the county puts out? According to that, it has to be hooked up to an 'approved sewage disposal system' but doesn't define what that is. Are you saying that a pumpable storage tank is approved? If so, that makes it much easier as although I have a permit now to install a septic system, the rains I think are going to make installation before mid-April forbidden. A week or so ago they said no to portapotty, so I'm wondering if this has changed. I can't seem to get info from the county; they are probably overwhelmed. Meanwhile, my temp housing is disappearing in 2 weeks, and I will be homeless.
-----------------------------------

Ok, here goes... There is permitting for RV and Accessory Dwellings... up to Dec. 31st 2019... yes, two year window. I...

[MikeH]

There is an emergency ordinance and the regular long standing travel trailer ordinance. Here is some of the links to the information. I myself am reading and considering this. The biggest obstacle to me for adding spaces for one or two tiny homes or trailers would be major electrical upgrade. There are liability and safety and insurance issues. i cannot run an extension cord from the garage, have persons draw unlimited amperage and burn the whole place and neighborhood down.

Emergency ordinance - https://storage.googleapis.com/proud...11-13-2017.pdf

Prohibition on New Vacation Rentals or Hosted Rentals.

Acceptance and processing of applications for new vacation rental or hosted rental permits have beensuspended for 45-days until December 8th, 2017. The suspension may be extended by the Board on orbefore December 5th for up to 10 months and 15 days.

Temporary Housing for Displaced Persons

Residential Use of Recreational Vehicles and Travel Trailers will be allowed, both within andoutside burn areas on residential and agriculturally zoned properties in the unincorporated areas, withan emergency temporary permit. Hookup to sewer or septic systems or a holding tank with a pumpingcontract is required. Until December 8, use of Recreational vehicles and travel trailers is allowedwithout permits or sewer hookups outside the burn areas, provided that routine pumping is provided.All types of Recreational Vehicles and Travel Trailers are allowed to be used as temporary housing,provided they are approved by the state and licensed through Dept. of Motor Vehicles and are placedwith a temporary permit.

Travel trailer Permit Rrequirements Flyer - https://storage.googleapis.com/proud...onal-Flyer.pdf
Permit Fees (2017-2018): Emergency Temporary Occupancy Permit = $83
Sitting and Sewage Connection considerations:
Vehicles shall be placed on existing level areas. Work to create a level area for vehicle
placement or to create access to a level area may require a separate grading permit.
Construction of retaining walls to create a level area requires a separate building permit.
Sewage connections should be made to allow for gravity flow to disposal location, otherwise a
grinder pump will be required. Connections to septic tanks shall be made at the inlet end.
Vehicles may connect to existing intact and functioning septic systems. A findings report is
required to verify the location, condition, and adequacy of septic systems not on file with the
county or in burn areas.
Inspections:
Septic - Generally, the septic system must be uncovered for evaluation. Inspections may be
performed by private qualified consultants. If the septic system is damaged or if the house is served
by a cesspool, a new septic system will be required meeting at least the repair guidelines for septic
systems.

The use and occupancy of travel trailers and other recreational vehicles on any
parcel outside of fire-damaged sites, will be allowed without permit for an initial
period of 45 days. Beyond the initial period, a temporary permit from Permit Sonoma
is required as noted below. Recreational vehicles could be used on fire damaged
sites only after the site is approved as safe for reconstruction by the County, state, or
federal government and with the approval of a temporary permit.
Residential use of recreational vehicles and travel trailers will be allowed for persons
displaced by the Sonoma Complex Fire on sites both within and outside burn areas on
residential or agriculturally zoned properties with a temporary permit until December 31,
2019, provided that it is connected to an approved source of water, sewage disposal
system, and source of electricity. The recreational vehicle/travel trailer and all
connections must be removed by December 31, 2019.

I think this is the regular ordinance - https://www.sonoma-county.org/prmd/d...ts/pjr-008.pdf

1. Temporary occupancy of a travel trailer, recreational vehicle or mobile home during the construction
or major remodel/addition of a single family dwelling.
a. a building permit for the proposed construction must be ready for issuance;
b. the approved sewage disposal system must be installed and inspected;
c. the temporary unit must be connected to the approved sewage disposal system;
d. the temporary unit must be removed as a condition to receiving a final on the building permit for the
new construction.

These temporary units shall comply with zoning regulations and shall be connected to water, electricity and
a lawful sewage disposal system or sewer. Permits are required for electrical and sanitation connections and
if the temporary unit is a mobile home, a permit is also required for the set-up. Permits may also be required
if exit stairs and a deck are necessary. Temporary units that are 640 square feet or larger shall also comply
with Fire Safe Standards for access, fire suppression, setbacks and addressing. (See attached sample
drawings for temporary sanitary and electrical connections, exit stairs and deck foundation plan).

[Goat Rock Ukulele]

What you can get away with depends largely on your neighbors. If they like you or have their own zoning sins your probably going to be ok. If they don't like you and are going to drop a dime on you you will need to comply with a myriad of rules, too many to post here. If you want to know all the rules you need to get them from PMRD because they are ever changing and open to their interpretation. They aren't going to follow you out the door and follow you home. Getting information from anyone other than PMRD is pointless as they regulate and enforce.

[Dorothy Friberg]

Several years ago a friend had a large redwood tree fall across the roof of her house. Insurance covered it including bringing in a habitable trailer with slide outs which were parked on her lot. Said trailer was hooked up to a holding tank for septic and was pumped out occasionally. This occurred in west county off green Valley Road. County provided NO hassels.

Abbie Hoffman, Wendell Berry, Henry Thoreau, Buckminster Fuller, Edward Abbey, Wavvy Gravy, Lou Gottlieb, Luther Burbank

I need some ideas, I need some contacts, I need English. The PRMD does not seem like the place to go. Are you under-the-radar-off-the-grid? ...or KNOW!! about it? Help! I wanna. Specifically, I would like to talk to people that know WHAT, exactly, is LEGAL and transform my living methods (m.o.) to fit the law. I have, or can-have land. It wll be alternative, no doubt, but I'm willing (for the near future, anyway). I'd like to know the limits on possibilities for non-permited construction; for "camping" (squatting on your own land, or "temporary residence") in unincorporated lands; for housing on wheels etc etc. I could migrate, like a Junco. Trailers with "septic" on wheels, etc. Generator? Please speak to me. ciao fillo