Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

[KatyO459]

Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

[Shandi]

Because they can!

There are a multitude of reasons, depending on who you ask. But the answers won't change anything. When we ask "why" we may receive many conflicting responses, all of which make logical sense to the respondents.

Why do you think the rents are going up so high in Sebastopol? (and many other places) Another question to ask is "why do people want to live in Sebastopol?" Why do you? The responses may contain the answers to your question.

When I tell people I don't want to live in Sebastopol, they seem genuinely shocked. I wonder why....

[JayS]

In my opinion, greed.

[rukiddingme]

In my opinion, greed.

......said the renter

[spam1]

Because Sebastopol is an enclave or relatively well-to-do white baby-boomer hippies who would rather not have the character of the town changed by adding housing and more people. So since there is no new housing, even as the county population grows dramatically, the limited amount of housing is bid up by people, like you, who would really like to live here.

If you would rather move to the River, or Roseland, or Rohnert park, the housing is much cheaper.

This situation won't change until the (very unlikely event) city counsel, representing the above population, decides to increase housing availability. Mostly this would need to be done by accepting market rate housing projects that will lead to vacancies in lower rate properties; or allowing something like junior units. But, none of you prospective neighbors want more people here, so it is not really a viable possibility.

It's really very simple.

[tommy]

Supply & demand. West County is a small beautiful place. There's more people who want to live here, than there are places for rent. Thus rents go up.

[Barry]

Supply & demand. West County is a small beautiful place. There's more people who want to live here, than there are places for rent. Thus rents go up.

I hate to say it, being a landlord at the moment who just raised the rent (reasonably, IMO) , "supply and demand" makes the rents go up thanks to:

In my opinion, greed.

Landlord born costs, generally, have not gone up as much as rents. So rents go up to a place that the market will support, because they can. Landlords could still charge the same or slightly higher rates, adjusted for slightly higher costs, but the "market rate" is significantly higher so they charge more because they can, which could be called greed.

On the other hand, when renters are selling whatever they have to sell, typically their labor, but perhaps a used car etc, do they price it at "fair return" or a cost + return basis, or do they ask for as much as they can get? (albeit that too often what they get is less than a fair return).

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, our market based economy, which is based on greed, is the worst kind of economy, except for all the other forms.

One way to have lower rents, is to have less desirable living situations (because of size, location, condition, neighbors, etc) but the rent will always be higher here than elsewhere, because included your rent is that you get to live in the wonderful, and highly desirable Sebastopol area. Another way to have lower rents is to make the area less desirable (increase density to the point traffic and smog is unbearable, etc).

Especially within the city limits of Sebastopol, I don't think building another 120 units by 2022 ( as ABAG calls for) is going to make a difference in the rent level. Fundamentally, it's a demand problem, because supply is constrained. And when there's more demand than supply, prices rise, thanks to greed, to balance the market.

[IgorGold]

If only it were that simple. Much of the available housing has been set aside for vacation houses, rented out at high rates during the vacation periods. If an owner can make more money by renting out a residence for half a year at a much higher rent to vacationers than renting year round to residents they will; especially when there's no tax incentive or disincentive.

Supply & demand. West County is a small beautiful place. There's more people who want to live here, than there are places for rent. Thus rents go up.

[jbox]

......said the renter

It's just the rental market. It may seem like a tired old cliche but supply and demand is absolutely in play here and is probably the cornerstone of our economic system. Believe it or not there are loads of people looking for housing and loads of them make more than enough money to afford these "high" rents. Try going to SF or Oakland, then you'll see high rents, more than double than in our little corner of paradise.

[IgorGold]

I suppose it depends on what kind of community you want to encourage and how you value its members. When membership of the community is reduced to the price of admission, like an expensive concert or sports event,then the only community you can build is from the people who can afford the price of admission. Only none of us live in concerts or sport stadiums, we live in communities that need teachers, firemen, police, and other working people to maintain the services (and luxuries) we partake in. Cohesive communities tend to be made up of the people who both live and work there, but when the price of accommodation becomes an object of speculation (as it has in most of the Bay area), then you encourage a situation where the people you need to maintain a community can no longer afford to live where they work, so they become commuters. And that's really become the reality of high priced residential towns like Sebastopol, comprised of wealthier and wealthier property owners tended to by working commuters.

Then of course the matter of where the owner's children can afford to live . . .

[podfish]

Why are rents going up so high in Sebastopol?

what do you mean, "Sebastopol"? It's almost not necessary to qualify the question with a specific city! Even the flyover states are having problems with high rents these days. the "rent's too damn high" meme started on the other coast years ago. "Why" isn't a question with a simple answer.

[occihoff]

I think many of you have made very good points in this discussion. I would only point out that nobody has dared to raise the dread issue of rent control. Rent control! Socialism!! COMMUNISM !!!YIKES !!!! I wonder what Bernie Sanders thinks about this.

Not to mention another dread topic that I seldom hear discussed: HUMAN POPULATION EXPLOSION! The ultimate elephant in the room that hardly anybody seems to notice. What is it going to take for the human race as a whole to get a grip on this? At this point it doesn't look very hopeful to me. One of the few things that makes my inevitable death look like a blessing...

I hate to say it, being a landlord at the moment who just raised the rent ...

[gypsey]

Thanks to you and the other posts pointing out the "simple truths" of why Sebastopol rents are so high. I'm a young senior citizen who values the safety, beauty, walkability, senior discounts, parks, restaurants and stores, culture and surrounding nature that make this town so livable yet barely affordable. Those are the trade-offs, but in the long term, should we really accept it? A diverse community is a healthier community.

I for one am about to read the proposed General Plan and draft EIR in time for comments by 5 pm July 8th. (I was "too busy" to participate in the various public forums and committees that shaped it.) You can see a copy at the library or the Planning department or online at "Sebastopol general plan".org --Barry can you supply the url? Thanks!

Because Sebastopol is an enclave or relatively well-to-do white baby-boomer hippies who would rather not have the character of the town changed by adding housing and more people....

[Joshua Shepherd]

Because we live in a de-industrialized capitalist economy where in the absence of a healthy diversified economy, housing is the new gold rush- until the next economic collapse. Get in while you can, get out before the bust. Everything must be monetized. Because the market.

Rent is theft.

[tommy]

Greed is a factor - for a landlady, landlord, or owner who tries to get as much they can for rent. That has its own karma. When you charge as much as you can, the tenant may feel they're getting screwed, may not stay long, & may complain a lot.

Another reason for the increase in rents is the healthy economy. More & better jobs - tho they may not be perfect - create more demand for housing. When the Graton Casino opened, that meant 1500 new jobs in the area … meaning more people looking for housing.

Our economy is a greed economy - it serves the ego. Just look at the advertising industry. However it's also full of opportunity. Some are more skilled at manifesting than others. Recently passed rent control in Santa Rosa is an example of the government intervening to protect poor people who have little power. However, rent control benefits those few who have rent controlled apts. But they stay in them a long time, effectively removing them from the market, creating a shortage, & raising rents for the vast majority.

In a place like San Francisco, however, rent control has maintained some degree of diversity, that is healthy for all. Otherwise it'd be all rich white bread. Economists generally don't like rent control - they'd prefer to see higher density, jr 2nd units, & new construction.

In my opinion, greed.

[podfish]

Everything must be monetized. Because the market.

Rent is theft.

no, because private property. Rent's a way of converting your control of real estate into fungible assets - that part does become monetization 'because the market'. But it's rooted in the idea that an individual is granted the right by society to control real estate for his own benefit. The pragmatic root of that idea is that limited resources need to be allocated somehow, and 'the market' is used as a technique for that. In theory the invisible hand is better than any centrally-planned one.

says something about the lack of trust in any planner, when blind forces with a large chaotic and random component are given the job of distribution?

[podfish]

However, rent control benefits those few who have rent controlled apts. But they stay in them a long time, effectively removing them from the market, creating a shortage, & raising rents for the vast majority.

In a place like San Francisco, however, rent control has maintained some degree of diversity, that is healthy for all.

I dislike that analysis for the same reason I dislike where some analyses of health-care plans leads: at its root, it accepts the idea that there's not enough of a resource to go around so some must be denied it. I don't see how anyone staying in housing for a long time creates a shortage, or raises rents - unless you mean they should be removed altogether from the market and free up a slot for someone else. And it's hard to see how that's done humanely. The shortage isn't a function of who's staying, it's a function of the total number of people - which has staying/coming/leaving groups. If that function increases, a shortage happens no matter what. Implicit in your argument is that the 'leaving' group will expand if costs go up.

[Dustyg]

No one has represented the homeowners yet! I've been here since 1974, and all of the expenses related to having a home in Sebastopol have increased, some of them recently by five times. Water in Sebastopol is about $100 a month (over $200 for a bi-moonthly bill); garbage/recycle/greens has just gone up it's about $60 a month now; P
G&E rates have gone up tremendously recently, and all of these costs for my home are at a very low basic or below basic level of use. Call a plumber? $70 or more charge just for the house call. Electrician? Same thing. Maintain the exterior of your home--very expensive. House taxes are up. Internet up. Yard work? Fencing? This is just off the top of my head...I'm a fixed income senior and I'm just trying to stay in my home, because it IS my home (home town now) and I love it here, even with all of the stresses and changes. If I tried to move into Sebastopol today, I wouldn't be able to, but I'm already here and trying to stay here. It's not all about greed, as some of you think....

It's just the rental market. It may seem like a tired old cliche but supply and demand is absolutely in play here and is probably the cornerstone of our economic system. Believe it or not there are loads of people looking for housing and loads of them make more than enough money to afford these "high" rents. Try going to SF or Oakland, then you'll see high rents, more than double than in our little corner of paradise.

[gypsey]

A healthy economy also means COSTS go up for landlords and others alike. I was a landlord at one point in my life and I can tell you, it isn't a get rich scheme. Demonizing landlords is an easy hit. (Also, San Francisco has extreme rents and very serious housing troubles--not a great model, indeed.)

What I'd like to ask our WACCO audience who are homeowners is whether they can suspend their NIMBY feelings and get busy supporting affordable housing projects (subsidized, senior, and other)---and if so, are willing to push the issue with the Council and in the General Plan.

[podfish]

What I'd like to ask our WACCO audience who are homeowners is whether they can suspend their NIMBY feelings and get busy supporting affordable housing projects (subsidized, senior, and other)-.

man, we can't even put up with a tower for local radio, which is otherwise something admired by much of the area's population. I'm afraid that new neighbors are even less desirable than radio towers around here.

[Barry]

I for one am about to read the proposed General Plan and draft EIR in time for comments by 5 pm July 8th. (I was "too busy" to participate in the various public forums and committees that shaped it.) You can see a copy at the library or the Planning department or online at "Sebastopol general plan".org --Barry can you supply the url? Thanks!

The Draft General Plan is here and the Draft EIR is here

For more information about these documents and General Plan process see this thread.

[beshiva]

i hate that "you" had to say, you hate it. I'm a landlord too. i don't raise the rent on my tenant, ever.
if they move, and some have, Then the next person may have a very small increase.
but, we do have choices here.
and i hate to say it, but, Sebastopol is just not desirable anymore. at least to me it's not.
i'm moving farther north. it is beautiful, it is still affordable and it is a damn shame that so many people get pushed out.
true, so many can't afford to live here just to serve the rich. it doesn't have to be this way. we ALLOW it to be this way, we support it either directly or indirectly. suffice to say, greed has no limits.
peace

I hate to say it, being a landlord at the moment who just raised the rent (reasonably, IMO) , "supply and demand" makes the rents go up thanks to: [greed]

[Barry]

...Landlord born costs, generally, have not gone up as much as rents. So rents go up to a place that the market will support, because they can. Landlords could still charge the same or slightly higher rates, adjusted for slightly higher costs, but the "market rate" is significantly higher so they charge more because they can, which could be called greed.

i hate that "you" had to say, you hate it. I'm a landlord too. i don't raise the rent on my tenant, ever....

Let me take the other side for moment...It's really hard to say what a house/home actually costs, let alone what it's worth. Sure there are the fixed costs (mortgage, insurance, taxes, etc) and some standard maintenance costs, plumbing issue, etc, but then there is all the time when you were underwater, when even the fixed costs were above the market rate for rent, and the big maintenance issues, roof, septic, termites, mold and then there the tenants from hell (and no doubt landlords from hell) and the tenants just calling the landlord when there's a problem and not worrying about it, vacancies, etc., and, and, and...

So it's really hard to say what it costs, what is fair and what is greed.

And the fundamental problem remains: there's more demand than supply at price points than many people can or want to pay.

[Shandi]

Who can blame anyone for wanting "safety, beauty, walkability, senior discounts, parks, restaurants and stores, culture and surrounding nature"? The reality is that these things come at a price that most people can't afford. This isn't the concern of those who can afford it.

These are actually luxuries, and out of reach for the average person. Sebastapol draws those who can afford to live in luxury. The exceptions are those in "affordable housing" units such as Burbank. mobile home parks, or who are renting a room.

Then there are those of us who choose not to live in places like Sebastopol, with it's boutique shops, high priced restaurants, unsafe traffic congestion, limited, expensive choices for grocery shopping and an un-diverse community of people who not only can afford it, but have the power of choosing these "luxuries".

I'd rather live in the "un-luxury" of many choices within a 2 mile radius: 6 grocery stores, several thrift stores, big box stores like Target, Costco, Lowe's, Home Depot, parks in every neighborhood, several community pools, a beautiful library, several banks, Kaiser/Community Health, several gyms including those in the Community Center, Green Music Center, auto repair shops, beautiful nature, good traffic flow with alternative routes, bike lanes, easy access to 101/Smart Train, and plans for new housing. Maybe not "charming", but I'd take choices over charming any day. Oh, and there's diversity here too, although not as much as I'd like to see. Maybe because it's still not as affordable for many low income minorities, as it is even for a low income senior, like me, who's renting a room in a senior mobile home community.

There are things in a community that are considered "unacceptable", like unaffordable rents, but the question is what can the average person do about it? There are "acceptable" limitations to the choice of living in the luxury of a small quaint town. High rents is just one of those realities.

Thanks to you and the other posts pointing out the "simple truths" of why Sebastopol rents are so high. I'm a young senior citizen who values the safety, beauty, walkability, senior discounts, parks, restaurants and stores, culture and surrounding nature that make this town so livable yet barely affordable. Those are the trade-offs, but in the long term, should we really accept it? A diverse community is a healthier community....

[beshiva]

I suppose we need to carry on and always debate what anything is worth- but we don’t want to debate the underlying problem of all this debate. why do we not even debate the whole
Concept of “landlordism”. The word – Lord over the Land. Some are the lords over the peasants and unfortunately, there are, as always have been, many peasants for a few Lords. And, somehow we justify
That being landlords is a good thing, a given. That people don’t somehow deserve their own places to dwell, to raise their families, to raise their crops and our “Right” on this dear green Earth and Blue Planet is to be able to
Just live
That some of us got to be the Lords and some the Peasants on the land is a Capitalist construct. It has always served only a few of course. The rest grovel for the scraps from the King.
it is why we don't want to talk much about affordable housing, and if it is discussed the numbers for what it really means for some folks is ridiculous-nothing affordable At ALL about it! if building affordable housing in Sebastopol means $400K studios, "that's Not Affordable"!
Peace
marni

[IgorGold]

Hey, when's the last time you saw a studio in Sebastopol for $400.00?!?

The point is that when you build a community that only the affluent can afford to live in, you have a community exclusive to the affluent, a minority.

Then you'll need a strong police force to protect the minority from the majority. I hear allot of lip service paid to so called spiritual, non materialistic values in Sebastopol. It would be nice to see those values put into practice rather than mere posturing.

You want to live in a more peaceful equitable world? Why not start in your own backyard?

...if building affordable housing in Sebastopol means $400K studios, "that's Not Affordable"!

[podfish]

That some of us got to be the Lords and some the Peasants on the land is a Capitalist construct. It has always served only a few of course. The rest grovel for the scraps from the King.

technically you're incorrect - this way predates the development of capitalism. And technically it serves everyone, too, not just the few. It's the way it serves them that is objectionable.

There's a limited amount of land. People invest their time in developing the land, or use the land as source for the resources they need to survive. Much of human history centers around the way social groups have developed more sophisticated means than just driving off or killing any prior occupants in order to access the land. Well, sometimes they've just developed more sophisticated means of driving off or killing prior occupants.

anyway, we're moving well past that as a species. We don't need access to 'land' as individuals, we need food/shelter/health care - and we suffer psychologically if those are only provided as the bare minimum for survival. So all these systems and cultural constructs that have taken thousands or hundreds of thousands of years shape our reactions and make it very difficult to just solve the damn problem. There's plenty to go around - it's allocation and perception ("hey, someone's getting what should be mine and they don't deserve it!", along with "hey I work hard (or I'm smart) so I deserve more") that are close to intractable problems - but it took a long time to get here, so it's going to take a long time to get out. At least the pace of change is accelerating to something unimaginable for most of our ancestors.

[IgorGold]

A healthy economy is when costs go up and wages rise to match them!
Nobody needs to be demonized but affordable housing requires regulatory incentives and restrictions.

A healthy economy also means COSTS go up for landlords and others alike...

[IgorGold]

It takes a responsive government uninfluened by private interests to assure the equitable access to resources and housing. There's plenty to go around as long as those who feel entitled to a greater share are kept in check.

... There's plenty to go around - it's allocation and perception ... that are close to intractable problems ...

[ChefJayTay]

It's not just home rental...
Look at the small businesses in the area. There are no new small businesses forming here. Look at 116... all the consignment stores have moved closer to town or 101 & the land between is unrented. Many are closing up shop. I'm on the edge of moving my operation myself. Many more are secretly doing so (including a few very well known small sebastopol main st businesses).

Edit: Roughly 80% of the fine dining chefs I personally know in the bay area have moved out in the last 2 years (several each to Portland, Chicago & DC).