What do you think of Lynda Hopkins?

[Michael Anthony]

Just differ on fact.

Ernie, don't you mean "differ on made up facts?" Evidently, when you are confronted with the true facts about the sources from where Ms. Evans has received past campaign contributions [big wine, real estate, and casinos], you suffer a tongue malfunction as exhibited by your silence.

[riverosprey]

This is my great concern with Noreen. She is the last of a generation who voted for massive, retroactive, unfunded, 50% increases in retirement benefits, for the first wave of retiring baby boomers, who control the unions, the management and most electeds. Over Noreen's 20 year career, with a 100% voting record (legislator average 11% for the boomer controlled unions), Noreen received $Millions in contributions, and almost every year submitted bill after bill written by the unions, to further increase pensions, benefits, even make municipal bankruptcies more difficult.

Fortunately a fiscally responsible legislature voted no on all Noreen's rubber stamp bills, and finally Governor Brown and a unanimous legislature, forced Noreen to vote for PEPRA (Public Employee Pension Reform Act), which rescinded the 50% increases for the next generations of public employees. But the boomers still get their unfunded benefits, and we've seen a five-fold increase in retirement costs, with corresponding cuts in all of our social programs, mental health and homeless services, education, housing, roads and infrastructure. Noreen's slogan "She's for us" doesn't correspond with her role in the demise of all the essential services government was once able to provide for generations.

I have defended other candidates from Lisa, Ernie and Noreen's "guilt by association" tag, and "who do you trust nonsense". No doubt Noreen's camp have already printed the hit pieces, that will go out next week, trying to undermine and slander other candidates. To me this is a battle for the future of all our public services, to prevent a further dramatic spiral down, with continuing suffering for lack of services, especially to the least of thee among us.

Also troubling to me, is Noreen's lack of understanding and solutions offered toward providing affordable housing in the Fifth District. Lynda Hopkins and I are advocating "Junior Second Dwelling Units", similar to Marin's (www.lilypadhomes.org), created in owner occupied homes, with zero impact fees, no utility hook-up fees, and no affordability covenants. At the KOWS/Rural Preservation forum last Thursday, Noreen said people don't want to live in small affordable apartments (BS), she said the solution is "jurisdictional housing" requiring developer's of subdivisions to provide a certain percentage of affordable housing (a good thing). But how many subdivisions are planned for the Fifth District? None---

Noreen rented a house in Sebastopol in December, she's never voted in the Fifth District, doesn't understand we're losing population with schools closing, and dysfunctional commutes whereas most of the work force live in overcrowded Santa Rosa housing. I will vote for myself June 7th, but if I am not in the top two and Noreen is, I will not vote for Noreen Evans.

Tom Lynch www.tomlynchforsupervisor.com

[Lisa Maldonado]

This is my great concern with Noreen. ...

Wow. Now I know why they call you Manure Man! That is the biggest load of compost I have heard in a while. You know NOTHING about unions and you, Mike Martini and Efren Carillo seem to be the designated " Dirt Carriers" for the Hopkins Campaign. I guess you guys throw the anti -labor mud while Lynda wrings her hands and tries to distract everyone about why she's raised thousands from developers, wineries and real estate interests.

I must say your lack of knowledge about Noreen Evans is almost as breathtaking about your ignorance about unions and pensions . If I had time I would try to educate you about how many including SEIU1021 are run by young people and women of color who are employed in the industry ( 2/3 of SEIU county workers are women of color) and that is why we fight for 15$ and Paid sick days and family medical leave etc.

BUT I know that you are simply here to beat the anti union drums along with Efren and try to throw shade on working people so that no one notices the greenwashing by the real estate and developer interests that worked so well with Efren and Gore. 5th district Voters are not easily duped and hopefully they will # follow the $ and the endorsements. Noreen is endorsed by the Sierra Club, Sonoma Conservation Action and SEIU. LYnda is endorsed by the Real Estate PAC, developers and the Sonoma Business Alliance and Wineries.

[Ann Onimus]

Lisa Maldanado - last time I checked you lived in the McDonald Avenue neighborhood in Santa Rosa. You and Omar and all the other people weighing in on this election who don't live in the Fifth should just butt out. At least Ernie has lived here for decades and served our community. You do not have standing.

[beshiva]

i attended the forum in Sebastopol. It was evident that Tom you were there more for Lynda Hopkins than for yourself. i mean for a moment, some of us wanted to get up and ASK, whaddya doin'??, seemed like many of your responses, HAD to include, "what me and Lynda want"...and i have to say this approach did nothing but backfire on you. Sorry, but i think people can make up their own minds without you being a cheering section on the forums!

let everyone stand on their own ok. Is it because you Know you are not going to be a real option when it comes to vote that you have to put in a plug for Hopkins. I actually liked some of the stuff you had to say. Though, you seem to harp an awful lot on pensions. You know, those folks who already put their blood sweat and tears into their jobs, but there is not enough left for them. (hey, while you are at it, could you ask the BOS to take a pay-cut? it's killing uS!)

i actually enjoyed listening to everyone and frankly, though she probably doesn't have a remote chance, Marion was quite refreshing. Obvious, she isn't beholden to anyone and she can say what she wishes, she does and her forthright, non-manipulative approach put me at ease.

This is my great concern with Noreen. She is the last of a generation who voted for massive, retroactive, unfunded, 50% increases in retirement benefits, for the first wave of retiring baby boomers, who control the unions, the management and most electeds. ...

[Richard Nichols]

This morning as I was reading the Tom Lynch thing on Noreen, and after attending the Sebtown Forum, I realized the Tom is actually a Bosco Boy plant to be Lynda's dog in the fight, so that she can seem to to stay above the fray. I have to hand it to the BB's for being very clever, well funded and manipulative. They find a young, intelligent woman, fund her with the big money interests, plant the carpet bagger tag on Noreen (knowing full well that Lynda just moved into the district), and have a handy, well known Tom Lynch to do the dirty work. And please don't lynch me for having my say.

With all that said, I like Tom, I'm sure Lynda is sincere, but we have been thru this before with the BB's. Efren, Gore, Rabbit, and Kerns are all part of the machine that control much of what goes on.

i attended the forum in Sebastopol. It was evident that Tom you were there more for Lynda Hopkins than for yourself. ...

[Lisa Maldonado]

Lisa Maldanado - last time I checked you lived in the McDonald Avenue neighborhood in Santa Rosa. You and Omar and all the other people weighing in on this election who don't live in the Fifth should just butt out. At least Ernie has lived here for decades and served our community. You do not have standing.

YES , while I do indeed rent a home in the third district- a great many of the working people in SEIU 1021 live in the fifth district. It's everyone's right to participate and have a say in local politics - especially when I see the lies and greenwashing going on by the real estate developers and wineries in the Hopkins campaign who already have pushed the working class to the brink in this county. Those of us fighting to keep our county beautiful AND affordable are supporting Noreen Evans- and your bullying won't keep me from expressing my opinion and exposing the fact that the same fat cats who supported Efren Carrillo are supporting Lynda Hopkins.

[Ken Sund]

After reading your continuous barrage of hypocritical and venomous words directed at Lynda Hopkins, as far as I am concerned Ernie, you are like a "fly on the wall" that someone should smack.

Sounds like what Trump would say. Swat us all down for daring to challenge the entitlement of the rich and priveliged to put their person on the board of supervisors.
I think former supervisor Carpenter has great information to share about the big wigs trying to elect their candididate. They have won the sign wars. How about paid precinct walkers or out of the area Hopkins telemarkers that can't pronounce Sebastopol?
Ken Sund.

[riverosprey]

You are good Lisa...like I said before I don't look forward to tangling with you :). You certainly know more about unions than I. I was a union member of the UFCW packing plant in Spencer Iowa...IBP eventually broke the union. Also used to rent a small apartment from Joe and Doris Murphy in Occidental. Joe was a former Wobley (International Workers of the World-IWW), and a legendary Bay Area Labor Leader, they called him "One Punch Murphy." He regaled me with stories of the early labor battles (Before your time :) I also approved $Millions toward prevailing wage projects in Guerneville with redevelopment funds.

My problem with the present retirement system Lisa, is it is poised to destroy SEIU in favor of the first wave of retiring Baby Boomers that you are paid to represent. SEIU and Noreen Evans did not represent the thousands of SEIU union members who retired from the city of Santa Rosa or Sonoma County before the 2003 (+/-) 50% unfunded increase. Nor does SEIU represent the next generations of union members allowing the "new tier" with rescinded retirement benefits even less than the "before 2003 retirees", mark my word these kids will not see a retirement. I do not believe in "second tier" for younger workers, and want everyone to receive the same (new PEPRA limits).

I believe the present system approved by Noreen as SR City Councilwoman and the retired Board of Supervisors will eventually bankrupt the system. I think you know this Lisa, you are not stupid, but it is your job to continue a "willfully blind" stand trying to justify it. I believe Noreen representing only the retiring Baby Boomers on the Board of Supervisors will hasten the inevitable insolvency and cause great suffering among those that this county used to be able to afford to provide services to.

As you can see I am no longer LABOR Democrat, if it means putting at risk young and old union member's pensions, nor sacrificing the services Democrats have fought for generations to take care of the young, old, poor, mentally ill and sick, to educate our children and maintain our roads and infrastructure. I loath the present situation Lisa and will fight the current politico's like Noreen that do not accept their responsibility in this failed system.

respect and kind regards,
Tom Lynch

Wow. Now I know why they call you Manure Man! ...

[riverosprey]

Richard, I have always loved you and Brenda, and appreciated ALL that you both have done for our community. You are perhaps too young to remember that in 1990 I re-registered as a pony-tailed Republican to take on Doug Bosco for Congress, as he was in favor of increasing wastewater discharges in the River. I encouraged Darline Comingore to run on the Peace and Freedom ticket. And endorsed Republican Frank Riggs for Congress, helping him win the Congressional District over Bosco (and we eventually elected Mike Thompson). D'ya think Doug has forgiven me for my roll in getting rid of him as a congressman? That was a great year as we also passed the open space disctrict AND Bill Kortum, myself and a few co-conspirators stopped the widening of Hwy 101 with the "No on B campaign".

As to Noreen taking credit for getting Santa Rosa's wastewater out of the River, she voted against the Geyser's plan as there was a schism in the environmental community, many wanting to see Bill Kortums "South County Irrigation" plan. I fought for the Geyser's plan, and there was sort of a parting of the ways with Bill and I, but we now have THE most exemplary wastewater plan in the world.

Richard...please don't call me a "Bosco Boy". I fight for what I truly believe in and Noreen Evans as our Supervisor is not something I take lightly. That is why I am running for Supervisor...I think Noreen's positions in favor of the current Boomer's controlling the Unions, and her failure to address the affordable housing crisis, make her unworthy of the position.

Respect and kind regards Richard and Brenda (Erin go Bragh!!)

Tom Lynch

This morning as I was reading the Tom Lynch thing on Noreen, and after attending the Sebtown Forum, I realized the Tom is actually a Bosco Boy plant to be Lynda's dog in the fight,...

[riverosprey]

Wow, Lisa and Doug Bosco are neighbors! I'm not saying nothin :)... Lisa you're right, we all have a right to participate and have a say in local politics, including myself, and I will not be bullied either. As to your comments about lies and greenwashing from real estate developers and wineries, these are the same entities along with unions, attorneys and tribal casino's that gave Noreen $ Millions over the last 20 years. Do you really believe that under Noreen it will be anything different than the same old **** different day? You get paid very well to pile this on, but you're right, the voters of the Fifth District are smart and they're gonna see through this BS. I am fighting to keep our county beautiful and affordable by preventing Noreen Evans from continuing the failed policies she's responsible for. Noreen sold the farm to the first wave of retiring baby boomers and management, and doesn't understand what needs to be done to create affordable housing with Junior Second Dwelling units.

I want the majority of workers presently commuting from overcrowded housing in Santa Rosa, to be able to live in the communities they work in in West County, in Second Dwelling Units. Ernie Carpenter has never supported this and now has Noreen parroting his failed housing ideas.

Of course few voters are following our conversations, but it's nice to vent a little before you unleash all these negative flyer's with the guilt by association nonsense.

Respect and kind regards Lisa...

Tom Lynch

YES , while I do indeed rent a home in the third district- ...

[riverosprey]

Chris thank you for your public service, my goal is to make the system sustainable, and be able to continue to fund your retirement. I like Lynda Hopkins more than Noreen (mind you I like Noreen as a person, just not as our Supervisor), and we share some similar ideas.

But I actually think I have a shot at being in the top two... Last time I was on the ballot in the Fifth against my friend Wes Chesbro in 2012, I got 5500 votes. The top two vote getters will probably be in the 7000-9000 range. Beings that two of the top candidates have never voted in the District, I think I have a shot (kind of like Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber asking the pretty girl if there's a chance she'll go out with him :).

respect and kind regards Chris!

Tom Lynch - www.tomlynchforsupervisor.com

i attended the forum in Sebastopol. It was evident that Tom you were there more for Lynda Hopkins than for yourself...

[Erik Perez]

I’m really getting sick and tired of Lynda Hopkins accusing people of running a “dirty campaign” and accusing people, like myself, of spreading “rumors” about her.

What really is a “clean campaign” as Lynda Hopkins says she wishes this campaign would be?

When I think of a clean campaign I envision a campaign that does not spread FALSE rumors about a candidate. Does it mean not stating the obvious, even when the obvious is damaging? No! A clean campaign is one in which the truth is told and the lies are exposed. Recently, Lynda Hopkins defended the statements by concerned voter like myself, that she was “being groomed” and “handled” by Efren Carrillo and his backers. I will lay out why these statements about Lynda is not a dirty campaign, but rather the TRUTH!

When your major contributors are the same individuals who donated to Efren Carrillo, when your treasurer on your committee is Efren Carrillo’s district representative (Susan Upchurch), when your campaign manager (Herman Hernandez) has been quoted saying Efren Carrillo is like a “father figure” to him, when Tom Lynch (Efren Carrillo’s appointee to the planning commission) drops your name about 50 times at a recent forum (“I agree with Lynda, me and Lynda agree, I like what Lynda said…”), when your major endorsements include the same endorsements that Efren Carrillo received (including Eric Koenigshofer), and your campaign consultant is the same consultant (Indian gaming, casino loving, Republican, Rob Muelrath) as Efren Carrillo’s, and to top everything off, Efren Carrillo himself writes a negative Op Ed in favor of you. What are we to assume other than you are a puppet being “handled” and “groomed” to take over for Efren when he leaves.

We need a NEW face in the 5^th district, and that means supporting Noreen Evans!

[Dan Gurney]

At the Sebastopol forum last Thursday, Lynda Hopkins was vague about who is funding her campaign. She mentioned her many small donations. She failed to mention her big donors.

Thankfully, Lynda's Form 460 spells out who her major donors are.

Not surprisingly, among her major supporters are the four Big Business Political Action Committees that have backed development-friendly candidates in the past. She's gotten major donations from road builders like Northern California Engineering Contractors and firms that make water treatment plants like Western Water Constructors. Big money. Big development.

Cement companies alone have together (Superior Supplies leads the way), contributed more than $15,000 to Lynda's campaign.

Click those links, especially Lynda's 460. See for yourself. Then consider:

Why are big developers investing so heavily in Lynda's campaign? Why would Lynda, who calls herself an organic farmer, accept money from developers and cement companies? Is there organic cement?

[Ken Sund]

I sure appreciated what Lois Pearlman wrote in the PD (4-3016.) about the Hopkins campaign.
But Wow. This "What do you think about Hopkins?" has turned into what do you think about her running mate, Lynch. It sure seems like Mr. Lynch is running as the big lineman attempting to mow down the opposition so that Hopkins can score a big victory for the real estate, winery and construction investors who own the "team".

Not only are some of Carrillo's staff working for Hopkins already,(fielding the big money coming in) but also his planning commissioner disguised as a candidate. I don't see any "new deal" when the same old players are running the show.
Ken Sund.

[Glia]

Noreen Evans is a "new face" like Hillary Rodham Clinton is a new face. Blech!!!

You are right about the need for the new -- and not a new puppet, either! Hopkins is a giant disappointment, and Evans is an old dry bone. Maybe start looking *seriously* at the other 3 candidates?

... We need a NEW face in the 5^th district, and that means supporting Noreen Evans!

[scamperwillow]

Also curiously, three employees of superior supplies - an office manager, a truck driver, and an administrator - each contributed $2500. They must be really well paid to make contributions like that......

...Thankfully, Lynda's Form 460 spells out who her major donors are. ...

[Michael Anthony]

...Noreen Evans, and the rest of the natural succession of leaders who have brought us to the point where we are now; extreme homelessness, lack of skilled labor jobs, horrible roads, terrible traffic, severe income inequality, more violent crime, high suicide rates, etc.

A funny thing happened today while I was walking to the boot shop. I crossed paths with Noreen Evans and Una Glass canvassing Sebastopol and struck up a conversation with both. Noreen said [as she has before] that Lynda Hopkins' campaign is funded by big wine and real estate interests. I reminded her that when she was in the senate, she too received donations from the same interests. She acknowledged that it was true and said that she had always voted against those interests and that was why those interests are not supporting her run for supervisor. Instead they opened their wallets to the newcomer Lynda Hopkins whom they assume will be any easier convert. Having now met both ladies [Noreen and Lynda], I do not believe that Lynda will submit to special interests any easier than Noreen.

I then told Noreen that I had indirectly blamed her for all of Sonoma County's woes on Wacco [see above post]. Boy, did she ever get mad and proceeded to tell me that it was like blaming all people over 40 for the same. To this I had to concede and I apologized for my blanket statement. Nevertheless, I have always held that if I say something behind someone's back, I am willing to say it to their face.

With that said, Noreen struck me as being a kind, caring, and thoughtful citizen just like the rest of the candidates. Therefore, I will no longer say anything negative about any candidate and adopt Benjamin Franklin's advice which says; "Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation."

[riverosprey]

Erik Perez...Welcome to Wacco! Who are you really? Lisa Maldonado? Marty? Ernie (no Ernie would post under his real name)... So Lynda is accusing YOU of a "dirty campaign"? It's funny...Doesn't appear to be anyone named Erik Perez in Sonoma County, but whoever you are, welcome aboard :).

I’m really getting sick and tired of Lynda Hopkins accusing people of running a “dirty campaign” ...

[rossmen]

Lisa has been known to write under pseudonyms. A bantam mma fighter from mexico? Totally her alter ego!

Erik Perez...Welcome to Wacco! Who are you really? Lisa Maldonado? Marty? Earnie (no Earnie would post under his real name)... So Lynda is accusing YOU of a "dirty campaign"? It's funny...Doesn't appear to be anyone named Erik Perez in Sonoma County, but whoever you are, welcome aboard :).

[Richard Nichols]

Tom, thanks for your measured response. I withdraw the Bosco Boy portrayal. I've respected your role in the community over the years. However, I do wish someone could explain why Lynda's campaign has a lot of the same folks who got Efren elected, and many of the same contributors as well. To see Efren attack Noreen, and to see Eric the K escorting Lynda (I saw that somewhere), makes me wonder. Can anyone explain what is going on?

...Richard...please don't call me a "Bosco Boy". ...

[riverosprey]

Thank you Richard (Hi to Brenda :). Yeah, I think Efren shouldn't have accompanied the endorsement with a dig at Noreen. I would like to see everyone run on the issues instead of this guilt by association business. Let's hope with the candidate forums over that will be the case...I just fear a repeat of the 2008 campaign of negative portrayals.

kind regards, Tom

Tom, thanks for your measured response. I withdraw the Bosco Boy portrayal. ...

[Lisa Maldonado]

Lisa has been known to write under pseudonyms. A bantam mma fighter from mexico? Totally her alter ego!

I am not Eric Perez. I write in my own name. Like many of your remarks here (the statement that I "have been know to write under pseudonyms" ) is offered without facts or evidence in the apparent belief that repeating lies makes it true. Your repeated nonsensical remarks about unions and "baby boomers" and pensions follow the same pattern. I am not lurking behind every articulate poster with a Spanish surname.
Is it so hard for you to believe that there is more than one smart Mexican in the county?

[Richard Nichols]

The 5 candidates all have the same positions more or less, on all the key issues, except maybe the pension stuff. I'm not sure it is negative to identify where candidates get their endorsements and funds. As I've said before, to quote a barn dance saying, "you gotta dance with the one who brung ya".

I'm outta this thread now. Richard

... I would like to see everyone run on the issues instead of this guilt by association business...

[Momof2]

Seriously!

Everyone acts like there are only two candidates in this race, but the only reason people are talking about them because they have each spent almost $100k on their campaigns to date according to their own reports submitted to the county.
I thought people of the West County wanted fresh ideas and new ideas!

Those things are only going to come from people like Tim Sergent, Tom Lynch or Marion Chase! These are the only 5th District candidates who are truly running their own campaigns and speak their minds without prepared opening statements. I looked at all the campaign statements and the ones submitted by the two big money raisers have spent a lot of money on consultants and campaign managers and staff. Press and written statements cost a lot of money when professionals are creating it for them for candidates!

...Maybe start looking *seriously* at the other 3 candidates?

[Erik Perez]

Erik Perez...Welcome to Wacco! Who are you really? Lisa Maldonado? Marty? Ernie (no Ernie would post under his real name)... So Lynda is accusing YOU of a "dirty campaign"? It's funny...Doesn't appear to be anyone named Erik Perez in Sonoma County, but whoever you are, welcome aboard :).

Wow! I must say Tom Lynch, that is quite impressive; knowing every single person in Sonoma County (over 500,000 people) to make a claim like that. Even though I am quite flattered you think I am Lisa Maldonado, I am not. I lived in Santa Rosa most of my life and just moved to Rio Nido last year. I would give you my exact address, but I certainly don’t want Efren Carrillo showing up in his underwear and peeping in my window

And lastly, as far as Lynda Hopkins accusing ME of a “dirty campaign,” I do associate that directly towards me and any other Noreen Evans supporter who calls Lynda Hopkins out on her lies and deceptions. I personally felt attacked at the forum when she accused “community members” of spreading false rumors about her.

There is nothing false about pointing out the FACT that Lynda Hopkins’ campaign is being funded by big ag, the wine industry, big business, and a bunch of Efren Carrillo supporters. There is nothing false about the FACT that Lynda Hopkins’ campaign is being run by Susan Upchurch (Efren Carrillo's District Rep and now Lynda Hopkins' campaign Treasurer), Herman Hernandez (huge Efren Carrillo supporter and now Lynda Hopkins' campaign manager), Eric Koengshofer (Efren Carrillo puppet master and now Lynda Hopkins' fixer), and now come to realize that you too, Tom Lynch (Efren Carrillo's appointee to the planning commission and now 5th District Supervisor shill) are a Lynda Hopkins supporter in disguise. You have no intention of running a REAL campaign, and are more in this race for show and support of Lynda Hopkins. So if anyone is to be accused of being someone other than who they say they are, it is YOU, Tom Lynch!

[rossmen]

You were outed on the old PD forums and when challenged, denied and got nastier. I don't know if you are ep, but the recent account and Google are suspicious. Do you know him?

I think Tom's remarks about boomers are thoughtful. My remarks about pensions I stand by. I checked out your link, old and not according to the new accounting rules. New reports by the seiu seem.......delayed?

I am not Eric Perez. ...

[rossmen]

There are substantive differences, evans is actually an outlier. I appreciate info about endorsements, but other stuff put out by evans and some of her supporters is stinky mud. Let sweet 02 turn it into soil we can delight in!

The 5 candidates all have the same positions more or less, ...

[Lisa Maldonado]

You were outed on the old PD forums and when challenged, denied and got nastier...

Again- I post under my own name. I was never 'outed' anywhere (if you have actual factual evidence please post it) There seem to be a lot of people like yourself and Tom Lynch who think that any latino who can string two words together has to be me. Sorry- unlike many here I don't need to hide behind an anonymous handle
I don't know Erik Perez- but he just friended me on fb and thought it quite flattering to be accused of being me.

Tom's remarks are just talking points. He is so obviously carrying the dirt for Efren and Lynda et al.
At the debates he quoted Lynda's name more than his own. His job is to attack unions and pensions and distract people from the facts that Lynda have over 100K in real estate, winery and business and construction money. Lynda's campaign consultant (who was also Efren's campaign consultant, Rob Muelrath) thinks 5th district voters will overlook the fact that Lynda is heavily supported (70% of her donors) by big business.

It's pretty clear when Syar gravel mining and Marlene Soiland and the Bodean Asphalt are your donors- you are NOT the environmental candidate.

The Sierra Club and Sonoma County Conservation Action obviously see through the greenwashing- they have endorsed Noreen Evans. Read it for yourself. The facts are here: https://campaigndocs.sonoma-county.o...0160428F12.pdf

[rossmen]

The old PD forums are gone, it's just a who said situation. Ep can prove he is real by a reputable reference. If you want to debate on the issues answer my question; are the county pension reports delayed? As far as gravel mining the current supply was the environmental choice! Just ask ernie. The question is where to go from here. Tom can write for himself, his record is he is no one's tool.

Again- I post under my own name. I was never 'outed' anywhere (if you have actual factual evidence please post it)...