What to do about ISIL/ISIS?

[Barry]

Here's Obama's policy, well presented, IMO:



Do you support it? Why? What would you do?

[Thad]

Hooray more war, armaments manufacturers will be so glad. Somewhere I read " Violence is the last resort of the Incompetent"

We in America have this as a knowledge point. The federal government has been forced to make reparations to the Native American Indians for Historical crimes.

Now it would be totally mind boggling to Imagine a President that could understand the sense of that and force Israel to acknowledge the fact of a Historical crime against The Ishmaelites

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmaelites

which happens to be most of the Arabs and most of Islam

and to open dialogue as to reparations.

Just the fact of an Acknowledgment would be a huge thing.

Is there anybody out there that knows to settle a squabble you need to go to the origin of it?

https://www.biu.ac.il/JH/Parasha/eng/vayera/fle.html

Start with that and then come forward.

In terms of Occam's Razor, paraphrased "why do with more what less does better ? "

When a race has been wronged do you really think it will just go away?

all grievances have an origin, it is from there it will be solved.

Here's Obama's policy, well presented, IMO...

Do you support it? Why? What would you do?

[arthunter]

this article by Scientific American might shed some light ...

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...cant-crush-it/

[Barry]

Some more opinions from the

The Cost of War by Charles M. Blow
... But I implore the president and the nation to proceed with caution....


Critique From an Obama Fan by Nicholas Kristof
...“We’re going to war because we’ve been spooked,” notes Joshua Landis, a Syria specialist at the University of Oklahoma. “But if we do it wrong, we could ensure that the violence spreads.”...

As for my own , most unfortunately I think Isis needs to be addressed, mostly to prevent it becoming a bigger regional problem which could have very wide implication and devastation, and which would be yet harder to contain. So I'd lean more toward containment and perhaps disruption now rather than later. The politics of that is tricky, though, given the dis-loyal fear mongering Republican opposition, along with the up coming elections.

[Valley Oak]

Obama responded properly and accurately. I support his decision to destroy ISIS.

There is now the question of what to do afterwards, if afterwards ever comes. (There is a possibility that ISIS will only spread.) It's called the "end game." The end game is what McCain is trying to flog the Obama admin about regarding Iraq and ISIS. But what McCain refuses to admit (because he is not terribly smart and not terribly honest either) is that the American pull out of the US Armed Forces from Iraq was an agreement between the Iraqi government and the US government under Bush II. Furthermore, the pull out also respected the will of the American people, who also wanted the US the hell out of there.

But now we have ISIS. And as is always the case, it's the President's fault if it rains when it there should be sunshine. There should have been sunshine but the rain of ISIS appeared. That's just messed up. And it forces us to go back in because if we don't, the regional conflict will get far worse, quite possibly provoking an international war that could drag in Iran, Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan and Afghanistan, and in the worst case scenario, now that they are pissed off over Ukraine, the Russians, and who knows, maybe even China to some extent. It doesn't take too much to see where the lines will be drawn here. My only question is where Egypt would fall into place. My expectation and hope would be on the same side as Israel and the US.

Unlike with President Cheney and puppet Bush II, there is not only a legitimate reason for the US to go into the Middle East again, there are obvious and previously mentioned reasons that COMPEL us to go back into that stinky, venomous snake pit. We don't have a choice. We must go back in. Additionally, thanks to Cheney and company, we also have a logical and moral obligation to continue taking care of a massive regional crisis that the US started to begin with. (Remember that we invaded Iraq back in the early 1990s under papa Bush, Bush I.)

Furthermore, back in 1953, the US and the UK overthrew democratically elected Prime Minister, Mohammad Mosaddegh, because he nationalized the UK's petroleum interests by expropriating British Petroleum's property and crude oil possessions in all of Iran, which were substantial. And for the record, Mosaddegh did the right thing. It was the US and the UK who behaved VERY inappropriately by overthrowing a democratically elected government, which eventually culminated in all of this incessant filth.

I quote Wikipedia:

"Mohammad Mosaddegh, (16 June 1882 – 5 March 1967), was an Iranian Politician. He was the democratically elected[1][2][3] Prime Minister of Iran from 1951 until 1953, when his government was overthrown in a coup d'état orchestrated by the British MI6 and the American CIA.[4][5]

An author, administrator, lawyer, prominent parliamentarian, his administration introduced a range of progressive social and political reforms such as social security, rent control, and land reforms.[6] His government's most notable policy, however, was the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry, which had been under British control since 1913 through the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC / AIOC) (later British Petroleum or BP).[7]

Mosaddegh was removed from power in a coup on 19 August 1953, organised and carried out by the CIA at the request of MI6, which chose Iranian General Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Mosaddegh.[8]

While the coup is commonly referred to as Operation Ajax[9] after its CIA cryptonym, in Iran it is referred to as the 28 Mordad 1332 coup, after its date on the Iranian calendar.[10] Mosaddegh was imprisoned for three years, then put under house arrest until his death and was buried in his own home so as to prevent a political furor."

So, you can see for yourselves, folks, that the West has been fucking big time with the Middle East for a very, very, very loooong time. All of the bloody, gargantuan messes over there are our fault. It is our moral obligation to help clean it up. And, no, ignoring ISIS and leaving a devastated and impoverished region (because of us) is NOT an option. We have to accept responsibility and the costs, both in American lives and money--a lot of it.

[wisewomn]

Here's another option, sent by a friend today:

Hundreds of thousands dead. Millions displaced. The needs of a generation traded for massive investments in a global war on terror. Today, as we remember the victims of 9/11, we also remember the victims of the 13 years of war that followed. What have we gained from these losses? Are the lives of Afghans and Iraqis better? Is the threat of violent extremism reduced? Is the Middle East more stable and prosperous? Military approaches don’t work. Yet today, driven by fear, support for war is once again rising on the belief that violence can end violence. There was no question in 2001 that the acts carried out on 9/11 were deplorable. There was no question that the Taliban was a cruel regime, or that Saddam Hussein was an authoritarian leader. But the choice we made as a country and a global community—to use military means to “solve” these wrongs—has not worked. There is no question that ISIS is a violent group, committing gross human rights abuses in Syria and Iraq. And there is no question that military action will perpetuate a devastating cycle of violence. We can’t bomb Iraq and Syria into moderation. We can’t bomb them into stability. We can’t arm different factions to fight their way to peace. Viable alternatives to violence exist. Sustained and transparent support for badly needed economic, political, and social changes are a start. But before we can address the root causes of war, we need to stop feeding the cycle of violence. That means not only stopping direct U.S. military action, but also suspending all training, arming, and financing of government and non-government factions in Iraq and Syria. We need to turn back to the global community—not to authorize another war through the UN, but to demand an end to all influx of weapons on all sides of these conflicts. Tell your elected officials to stand strong in opposing U.S. military action in Iraq and Syria. Now is the time to dedicate adequate funding to developing non-military, multilateral approaches to building peace and preventing atrocities globally. In Peace, Peter Lems and Mary Zerkel P.S. Alternatives to military action were the focus of Monday’s video briefing, see the attached video “Iraq and Syria: What next?”

American Friends Service Committee
1501 Cherry Street
Philadelphia, PA 19102
https://afsc.org

[BobHeisler]

I didn't listen to Obama's speech, but I support the extermination of all ISIS members. When even Al Qaeda thinks these beings are crazy MF's, that's a good sign that the world has to be rid of these psycho- and sociopaths.

[arthunter]

Another point of view ...

https://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...r-on-isis.aspx

[phredo]

Hooray more war, armaments manufacturers will be so glad. Somewhere I read " Violence is the last resort of the Incompetent"

Putin said recently:

Everything the U.S. touches turns into Libya or Iraq.

Just as true today as when Martin King spoke it in 1967,

"I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government."

-speech about Vietnam war on April 4, 1967 at Riverside Church, New York City

I think one will judge the actions the US is contemplating according to whether one believes or not in the essential goodwill of the US towards that part of the world. In my own opinion, there is very little evidence of such goodwill; on the contrary, I think the US is doing its utmost to fragment the Arab counties and destroy Arabic society. Seen that way, this latest adventure is just a new way to bring trouble to Iraq and find a really sneaky and clever way to step up attacks on Syria. It would take a lot of space to lay out my full thinking on the subject, so instead here are some recent articles and interviews that oppose the US position.

Medea Benjamin on today's "Democracy Now": https://www.democracynow.org/2014/9/...jamin_on_obama

Robert Parry
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/09/12/neocons-revive-syria-regime-change-plan

(As is true in many articles on Common Dreams, the comments beneath the article are often the best part. I always sort them from "oldest first".)

Funny how videos of two guys getting beheaded have Americans up in arms but barely a squeak when Chelsea Manning released the video of American helicopters gunning down civilians and journalists in the street and then shooting the emergency workers come to help the wounded, while the pilots laughed and hooted. Obama says ISIS is too brutal but that seems like a matter of opinion. We easily forget our atrocities but they don't. Tit for tat. With over a million casualties in Iraq caused by the US I think we have taken "atrocities" to a new level.

-comment found in another article on Common Dreams

[Alex]

Of course 'ISIL/ISIS' is just another CIA created and named so called terrorist group. This is business as usual.

With so much deception and media propaganda history to now learn from, it's scary to me that people are still willing to discuss the presidential puppet's carefully crafted lies and/or mainstream media's conscienceless manipulative reporting seriously and face value.

It takes a bit of time, effort and discernment, but with the internet, is there really any more excuse for ignorance? Why isn't anyone not caring to learn from the past not also a part of the problem? It sure feels like supporting liars lying in your name makes your soul partly responsible for the massive deaths of the innocent men, women and children who die because of it. True or not I refuse to do it.

Being 'conscious' to me instead would be to discuss the factors of who created ISIS by giving them the funds, equipment and arena - and probably a few agents provocateur to stir them up emotionally and why, and spreading awareness of this very repetitive American military scenario obviously happening again rather than sheepily going along with either the 'killing for that country's good' or the 'good of American freedom' trap again.

The usual scenario:

1. Create a problem by false flag or by arming and funding extremists to take down an opponent by proxy.

2. Incite a reaction from the public by demanding something be done about the bad guys the American military complex put into power.

3. Declare that the only solution to help whoever or protect American freedom and liberties involves a military invasion.

Even by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of world manipulative CIA or Military Industrial Complex covert operations and whitewashed by the many media infiltration/control mechanisms that were set in place including:
Operation Mockingbird, MK Ultra, Bay of Pigs, Operation Phoenix, Operation Northwoods, Iran/Contra, Al Queda, Operation Condor, Operation Chaos, countless documented violent overthrows of leaders.... Before the CIA in 1947 there was Operation Paperclip, oh and let's not forget that Prescott Bush funded Hitler.....

OF COURSE the president and media are lying now too.
War is only about power, making money, manipulation and control.
You are never told the whole truth. NEVER.
Time to stop forming opinions on what liars tell you.
If we don't grow up and learn from mistakes we'll deserve what we lose.

[CSummer]

Any opinion based on the picture presented by "official sources" is likely to be misguided, as this picture is likely not a true or complete one. It is well known that official views are promulgated to "manufacture consent," i.e., to get the public to go along with what those in high office want to do. Their values and priorities are not mine and I place little credibility on what they say. War does not lead to peace until all the players are dead. It does, however, make large profits for those in the arms industries.

At some point, we need to stop believing a government that lies and misleads the public - sometimes at great harm or cost to citizens in this and other countries. I seek my information from those who care about their fellow humans rather than from those who care about the approval and support of the ultra-rich and powerful.

CSummer

[theindependenteye]

>>>Of course 'ISIL/ISIS' is just another CIA created and named so called terrorist group. This is business as usual.

How do you know that with such certainty?

I grant you that the CIA is often vile. That said, it feels to me like a weird variant of American Exceptionalism to ascribe *every* evil gopher who pops up in the world to American connivance? Can no foreigner be evil without the brilliant leadership of our agencies?

-Conrad

[jbox]

Obama responded properly and accurately. I support his decision to destroy ISIS....

Edward,

I fear you have fallen for the same old warmed over baloney served up to the American public over and over again since the days of Hearst and the Spanish-American war. Now you and the rest of the public are falling prey to the fear and hate propaganda as you goose-step into line with the silent majority. First of all, do you really feel threatened by ISIS? Second, haven't we learned our lesson to just stay out of the Middle East militarily? Third, what right do we have to insert ourselves in to the affairs of foreign nations and cultures? Fourth, why not let the countries in the region take care of ISIS if it is such a bad thing?

Why should we do all the dirty work for Saudi Arabia. Iraq, Syria, and Israel? Don't they have enough military might (suppied by Uncle Sam, of course)? What right do we have to interfere in the internal affairs of sovereign nations and different cultures? A moral right? I think not.

Perhaps you still haven't learned the lesson of our military adventures over the last 13 years. Let me summarize it: An entire generation of young Muslims have learned to hate the US, trillions of dollars wasted on absolutely nothing, thousands of lives lost (just American, tens of thousands of local people killed), thousands of shattered lives and families, huge budget deficits, an erosion of trust in our government as an institution by both the Americn people and others around the world.

My attitude is simply this: Mind our own business.

[Alex]

>>>Of course 'ISIL/ISIS' is just another CIA created and named so called terrorist group. This is business as usual.

How do you know that with such certainty?

I grant you that the CIA is often vile. That said, it feels to me like a weird variant of American Exceptionalism to ascribe *every* evil gopher who pops up in the world to American connivance? Can no foreigner be evil without the brilliant leadership of our agencies?

-Conrad

I didn't say 'every' but this is one of the more obvious ones. I know because I've done my homework and sometimes now the tipping point from wondering to knowing goes quickly. But I also know I can't condense 20+ years of the preponderance of evidence that got me here thru mountains of books, articles, interviews, discussions and the cross referencing of countless aspects of military/governmental history, agendas, weaponry, benefits/money, corporations involvement, players, plus the constant mind blowing rapid technological advances I've learned about into any simplistic answer that would be convincing to you.

I can only say, I am so not alone. There has now long been a massive and growing number of people doing the very deep digging on the very wide ranging aspects of controversial and non-mainstream subjects, constantly sorting the info/disinfo, and constantly discussing it all. A huge global community now exists who have gravitated to the same research and now view world events through a pretty similarly shared revised set of foundational truths which keep proving accurate and getting reinforced. It's also a never ending job of reassessing what/who to trust or not.

By the way, I said CIA to keep it simple, but I really meant plus who knows what other of the many factions of the military industrial complex, and it's frequently worthwhile to look out for any Mossad/Israeli complicity with the US too.

I do this both because it's fascinating and ultimately leads to all the big questions about human existence, but also because I hate being lied to or perpetuating lies, and the so called rabbit hole/trail of lies keeps getting deeper and deeper. For me it also feels like cleaning self to get rid of as many illusions as possible this lifetime.

[Valley Oak]

The following video was published by The New York Times on September 3, 2014:

Escaping Death in Northern Iraq

[theindependenteye]

>>>I know because I've done my homework and sometimes now the tipping point from wondering to knowing goes quickly. But I also know I can't condense 20+ years of the preponderance of evidence that got me here. . . into any simplistic answer that would be convincing to you. I can only say, I am so not alone. There has now long been a massive and growing number of people doing the very deep digging ...

You may be correct. Quite true, there's a huge pile of hard evidence and a lot of well-founded grounds of suspiciion of past shit. I'm only questioning the *certainty* of this assertion. A twenty-year record of robbing banks won't convict a bank robber of *this* bank robbery unless there's actual forensic evidence of it, and massive numbers of people convinced of his guilt isn't that. Thomas Aquinas spun out some brilliant theological arguments that have convinced many generations, but I don't think he could convict Satan in a secular court of law.

I can entertain the distinct possibility that what you say is true. But until the same flood of hard evidence emerges here as with the Allende coup, I see it only as speculation. Even taking it as fact, where does that lead us in terms of the original question: what to do or not do from this point on? If it's our monster, as you suggest, do we let it run wild? I confess I have no idea.

Cheers—
Conrad

[jbox]

The following video was published by The New York Times on September 3, 2014:

Escaping Death in Northern Iraq

If true, a heartbreaking story. But Edward, this is just nor our fight any more. We need to let the Iraqis mind their own business, and we need to mind ours.

[comodin]

It is very difficult for any of us civilians to understand what to do about this. I believe that the US has always been a militaristic empire, and our number one industry is making war. Perhaps the Native people here could speak to this. Also, read David Icke..."problem, reaction, solution")

[theindependenteye]

This week the Damned Fool inflicts his wisdom on the Middle East. He writes:

When there’s big ugly world crises, the best way to gain perspective is go to a bar. Not the ones where you might get slugged, but the ones with free pretzels or popcorn.

So what do we do about the Mideast fanatics that cut off people’s heads? They might all come back here and blow up our way of life. Plus they’re snotty.

There were lots of opinions at Smoky’s on Friday night. By Monday it might all change.

Ralph said we need to do more. More what? Just more.

Sharleen said just get the hell out and get all the Americans out except the ones that want their heads cut off for democracy and let it go at that.

Ed said bomb everything that moves, all over the place.

Miguel said whatever the President does he’s for it because it won’t work so we’ll know who to blame.

Darrell said we need to address the underlying causes by stopping oil. Park all our cars and ride bikes and bring the Arabs to their knees.

Flo said what if there was a time machine which maybe Apple or Google could do and go back in time and maybe like win the Crusades.

Carmella said the Communists are still out there, don’t think they aren’t!

Buddy counseled a very carefully calculated strategy.

Bette asked what about Scotland?

Some guy I don’t know laid out the case for America conquering the world, which would stop them pulling all this shit and also create a lot of jobs.

It went on like that till everybody was too drunk to talk, except Vernon who only drinks club soda and rambles on about the Dodgers.

(from DamnedFool.com - Bishop & Fuller)

[podfish]

I believe that the US has always been a militaristic empire, and our number one industry is making war. Perhaps the Native people here could speak to this.

the Native people's militaristic empires have been gone for more than a century. I don't know that their experiences in that realm are relevant to us anymore.

or is that not what you meant??

[BobHeisler]

To all those stating that the U.S. should stay on the sidelines and do nothing about ISIS, would that have been your strategy in the 1940's when Hitler murdered 6 million Jews, untold numbers of Poles, gypsies and priests, embarking on a mission to over-run Europe and the rest of the civilized world?

I don't think the U.S. should be left to fight this battle single-handedly, but should be part of an international coalition of nations bent on fighting a common, tangible enemy.

[arthunter]

This is a difficult problem and I don't underestimate the danger of the situation ... however, recently C-Span aired a revealing interview concerning 9/11 ... also, many Americans, including many members of this group are openly discussing " false flag" events, which points to almost radical changes in opinion and knowledge ...

If 9/11 was indeed a false flag event to get us into a war in the Middle East then thousands of innocent citizens were murdered when, in reality, the "War on Terror" was fabricated ... we can not, in my opinion, repeat these mistakes ...

I'm amazed that on one hand, it seems that every form of communication around the world is being monitored and catalogued ... US operatives and bases in every country ... etc, etc ... and yet we can't seem to catch and identify the bad guys without involving massive military strikes which wipe out thousands of innocent citizens at the same time ...

I thought that we were better then that ...

[Alex]

Quite true, there's a huge pile of hard evidence and a lot of well-founded grounds of suspiciion of past shit. I'm only questioning the *certainty* of this assertion. .....

I bet you can think of instances in your life where due to your knowledge and experience were absolutely certain about something someone else was not sure of. My unhesitant certainty is just education.

I see this difference in our perspectives inside the phrasing of your questions:

....Even taking it as fact, where does that lead us in terms of the original question: what to do or not do from this point on? If it's our monster, as you suggest, do we let it run wild? I confess I have no idea.

The USA does not need to choose what to do or not in response, it is the doer. The monster does not have the potential to run wild, we ARE the monster in control of it's limits. The course is scripted to a T... except for the people having dinner, weddings or strolling down the street who happen to get in the way and get blown up.

It's comforting to believe another good guys getting the bad guys cartoon with a catchy name when you have no idea of the level of sophistication and technology, long term agenda and public deception tools of the military industrial complex. There are mountains of proof to find, (the psyche and weaponry technology is especially mind-blowing), but this mountain just makes you realize that what remains hidden is many times even more advanced, scripted and has ZERO to do with being a good guy.

What do you think public reaction would be to Obama saying: "Ladies and Gentlemen, I am announcing the next phase of our infiltration into and destruction of Middle East stability. We have created another enemy under our control and told our impressionable young soldiers that killing these other impressionable soldiers is protecting American Freedom, but we really could care less who from either side die or are ruined. Our elite however, are safe behind closed doors and will be enjoying the benefits and resources of the greater control of these foreign lands to make us even more powerful."

Unhesitant certainty.

Here's someplace to start, get clues, add your discernment.
The Covert Origins of ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMjXbuj7BPI

[Valley Oak]

The following article was published by the Huffington Post on September 9, 2014:

ISIS Is Attacking Women, And Nobody Is Talking About It

"They usually take the older women to a makeshift slave market and try and sell them. The younger girls, basically they ... are raped or married off to fighters," Esfandiari said. "It's based on temporary marriages, and once these fighters have had sex with these young girls, they just pass them on to other fighters."

"[From] the abduction to turning them into slaves, to forcing them into forced marriages, to abandoning them in certain towns. These women who have been raped become pregnant, they give birth to babies, children are ostracized..."

Please watch the video provided in the article above by clicking here.

Pic 1: Man holds his daughter's headless body, decapitated by ISIS for belonging to a Christian family.
Pic 2: ISIS Islamists killing a woman by slitting her throat and capturing her blood in a bowl.

[podfish]

I bet you can think of instances in your life where due to your knowledge and experience (you) were absolutely certain about something someone else was not sure of. My unhesitant certainty is just education.

sorry, but I don't recognize that definition of education. I can think of many instances in my life where due to my knowledge and education I'm pretty much certain that someone else is wrong. My education has taught me that absolute certainly is rarely warranted. It's way too easy to take bits and pieces that seem to be true, weave them together with some plausible glue and treat the whole bundle as fact.

That's pretty much how your theory sounds. Al-Masri likely interacted with western intelligence operatives as he rose to a leadership position in the jihadi movement. The role of the west in shaping the modern Middle Eastern nations is pretty incontrovertible. The role of the military-industrial complex has been so obvious for so long that even Eisenhower warned about it - though it's difficult to prove it functions as a single entity, rather than a loose association of corporations and bureaucracies with similar goals.

But the leap from accepting those premises as 'facts' to knowing absolutely that ISIL is a CIA-controlled operation isn't very defensible. It's an inference that only works if you believe in smoothly functioning straightforward conspiracies. The correct analogy to the Middle East turmoil is an anthill, not a clock. No designer weaves these threads together into a clear plan; instead it's a heap of independent entities pursuing individual goals. That's the lesson of history that I got from my education, anyway.
(does a clock have threads?? damn, it doesn't....)

[theindependenteye]

Here's someplace to start, get clues, add your discernment.
The Covert Origins of ISIS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMjXbuj7BPI

So I watched the video. It makes lots of associations, e.g. Obama likes Brzynski, Brzynski did stupid things in Pakisan, therefore we’re funding ISIS. We supported the Mujahiddin in Afghanistan, therefore we must be supporting ISIS. ISIS captured US-supplied weapons, therefore we were happy they did. A rebel commander supports Sharia law, therefore he's indistinguishable from rabid terrorists. More complex than that, certainly, but I didn’t hear anything in 22 minutes that directly connects the US with intentionally creating/funding ISIS. Though I’d certainly agree with the broad assertion that our Mideast policies have led to it, along with countless other factors, dating back to post-WWi partitions of the Ottoman.

Is the idea that we intentionally created this monstrosity in order to sell weapons to everyone? Or to keep the Mideast destabilized? Or to promote a continuation of US involvement? Or that we just fucked up and this is the consequence? Except for the last, that would go toward the interest of arms manufacturers but very much against the interests of Big Oil, I’d think, which wants to see the stability that allows making a ton of money. I suppose at least it'd be comforting to know they don't have the last word.

Finally, the video suggests the solution is to withhold all support from Syrian rebels and to send material support to the Assad regime. Presumably, the popular uprisings in Syria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt and Bahrain were pretty much US-inspired? And the best answer to what we do now is “Nothing.” Withdraw all support from anyone (except Assad) and the problems will disappear? That’s optimistic, certainly. I wish I were sufficiently educated to believe it.

We both do share a heavy heart with all this. Que sera, sera.

Peace & joy—
Conrad

[podfish]

ISIS Is Attacking Women, And Nobody Is Talking About It

I don't think it's really "nobody". There's been publicity about this group for years. For some weird reason it seems that video is suddenly even more of an influencer than it has been. Until there was video of Ray Rice actually swinging at his fiance, reaction was muted - even though there was video of him dragging her out of the elevator. And somehow, even though ISIL has been slaughtering people like livestock (not a figurative analogy, either) for a long time, the decapitation videos of three people made it urgent. I mean, I do remember the Maine and all, but really?? it's this dramatic a difference in public opinion - kind of a "nothing new to see here" before, and "oh my god!!! do something, anything!!!" after?

[Valley Oak]

I would like to know why my photos were taken down. People need to see the ugly truth; otherwise they will simply continue with their diatribe and ignorance.

Edward

...
Pic 1: Man holds his daughter's headless body, decapitated by ISIS for belonging to a Christian family.
Pic 2: ISIS Islamists killing a woman by slitting her throat and capturing her blood in a bowl.

[Barry]

I'm sorry but the pictures were disturbing enough that people who do not knowingly choose to see them should not be subjected to them. People have a right to determine what they want to be exposed to. You are welcome to edit in a link to where the pictures can be found.

Barry
Moderator

I would like to know why my photos were taken down. People need to see the ugly truth; otherwise they will simply continue with their diatribe and ignorance.

Edward

[Alex]

To podfish and independenteye,
I really do appreciate the level and fair discourse from both of you and carefully read your responses.

podfish, I don't at all disagree with your logic in response to the way my use of the word education came off and what you thought I meant. I had to leave out a ton of things I wish I could have added and I tried to lump them all into saying I had accumulated a bigger education that I could write. Independenteye, thank you for taking the time to analyze that video and point out all the complexities and questions, and seemingly understand that I really did mean look for clues, not suggesting it was gospel, I don't think any source is.

I just feel so inadequate to be comprehensive enough to be clear in these short online discussions about very complex things. Then when you try to keep it simple, you attract an argument from those who know how not simple it is.

You bet it's not simple and for example, I suspect that one of the most crucial and unexplainable factors is the psychic weaponry. Meaning, it may be pretty confirmable that the CIA trained and armed Al Queda, which then morphed into ISIL/ISIS seemingly appearing out of nowhere huge, methodical and well supplied... But in terms of my 'CIA did it' statement, I didn't say I also meant that the ongoing/further control likely has factors of psychic weaponry. The rebels think they broke away but can still be individually monitored, directed and controlled. This is still just one of many other big not-simple factors.

I recently ran across something I saved a while ago. This was publicly stated 16 years ago by the Secretary of Defense but I'm aware it had already been perfected by then. I've heard of way more advanced stuff than this and probably don't have clue what they have now. You bet they're using it:

"One can envision the development of electromagnetic energy sources, the output of which can be pulsed, shaped, and focused, that can couple with the human body in a fashion that will allow one to prevent voluntary muscular movements, control emotions (and thus actions), produce sleep, transmit suggestions, interfere with both short-term and long-term memory, produce an experience set, and delete an experience set. It would also appear possible to create high fidelity speech in the human body, raising the possibility of covert suggestion and psychological direction...Thus, it may be possible to 'talk' to selected adversaries in a fashion that would be most disturbing to them."
Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, Defense Viewpoint, December 1, 1998
United States Air Force Scientific Advisory Board, New World Vistas: Air and Space Power For The 21st Century


Welcome to Star Wars level warfare.