Rodger that...

[SoCo Intactivists]

Unlike most of the recent mass killers, UC Santa Barbara spree killer Elliot Rodger used both knives and guns. His first three victims where his male Chinese-American roommates; he stabbed them to death with a knife. Then he got in the BMW his rich daddy gave him and started shooting what he considered to be snooty sorority girls and their male companions. Because one of his targets was women who had rejected his sexual advances, it has stirred up the ‘violence against women’ and ‘rape culture’ discussion yet again.

There is the usual speculation around how he fell through the proverbial mental health cracks:

Did Elliot Rodger’s Therapists Fail? What prevents law enforcement and mental health professionals from stopping a killer?

“… Last week, Elliot Rodger killed six people in Isla Vista, California. Like [Adam] Lanza, Rodger was mentally ill. Unlike Lanza, Rodger had extensive contact with both mental health professionals and law enforcement authorities. Rodger’s parents had long been concerned about his erratic behavior. A lawyer for Rodger’s father said Elliot Rodger had been seeing multiple therapists. Santa Barbara police visited his apartment six months before the shooting but found nothing in his demeanor to be concerned about. …”

https://www.slate.com/articles/healt...recognize.html

Of course the media is getting a well-deserved flogging:

Santa Barbara killings: Is the Hollywood debate worth having again?

“While trying to draw a straight line between Hollywood and violence is simplistic and potentially counter-productive, say some experts, it is also important not to dismiss the relationship out of hand. …”

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Societ...h-having-again

Another potential contributing factor rarely discussed is the use and influence of psychotropic [psychiatric] drugs:

Nearly Every Mass Shooting In The Last 20 Years Shares One Thing In Common, And It Isn’t Weapons

“… The overwhelming evidence suggests the single largest common factor in all of these incidents is that all of the perpetrators were either actively taking powerful psychotropic drugs or had been at some point in the immediate past before they committed their crimes. …”

https://worldtruth.tv/nearly-every-m...-isnt-weapons/

But there is something else that seems to be driving young, white, American males to pick up a weapon, usually one or more guns with high-capacity clips, and start killing people:

“As early as 1945 the connection of circumcision-induced homicidal and suicidal rages was established in a child as young as 6 years old.[3] This article also connects PTSD, then called Combat Neurosis, to such early surgeries and may be a reason the USA and U.S. Military personnel are highly susceptible.

Degrees and intensity vary with age and higher when young. Pre-verbal trauma is not easily accessed by regular memory and much resides in the unconscious. Verbal conscious memory increases the awareness of betrayal. Traumatic frustration occurs and remains with both verbal and Pre-verbal. In essence, circumcision related violent behavior is expressed from being a Sacrifice Returned.

… America’s circumcision is an adopted habit of socialized violence through Cultural Imperialism. The result is cycles of violence and betrayal.[4] These cycles reside in a sense of Betrayal resulting in a Transference of Aggression onto other persons in other acts of Betrayal. Besides the individual, the Transference of Aggression is expressed socially between one group and nation against another. Transference is a deliberate choice and the substitute object is the genitals.

Transference is the deliberate displacement of one’s unresolved conflicts, dependencies, and aggressions onto a substitute object.

Original FBI’s Criminal Profilers who led the Behavioral Science Unit in Quantico, Virginia know circumcision is a factor in some serial killings and partly responsible for America’s generalized asocial violence.

It has been inferred by Robert Ressler, in an off the record comment when interviewed by Mothering Magazine’s web-editor, related the fact that the FBI realizes circumcision is a factor in violence. He explained they do not mentioned this because they would be considered raving lunatics and lose their jobs. Robert Ressler coined the term ‘Serial Killer.’

This attitude pervades throughout Law Enforcement from the U.S, Department of Justice down to local Sheriff Departments and Child Protective Services. Many have no clue, the same as the parents who are conned into the ritual. The Con is the criminal approach used to lure victims.

In Norway, the only country that records the circumcision status of rapists, 2% of the population are circumcised and commit more than 80% of their rapes. And, since 1991 almost all wars involved one circumcised country with some conflicts between both factions being circumcised. This includes all USA conflicts since Vietnam.

No other statistical records are kept regarding the individual and social percentile circumcision status of serial killers or rapists. Yet, over 50% of rapes in Sweden are perpetrated by the minority of men who belong to circumcising cultures. Circumcision status may factor highly in the USA’s highest of all other country’s incarceration rate to population. …”

https://www.salem-news.com/articles/...iolence-rm.php

From the Circumcision Resource Center: Psychological Impact of Circumcision on Men
https://www.circumcision.org/impact.htm

"I feel violated and abused."
American man circumcised when he was an infant

"What's done to children, they will do to society."
Karl Menninger, psychiatrist

"A whole life can be shaped by an old trauma, remembered or not."
Lenore Terr, M.D., child psychiatrist

"If we are to have real peace, we must begin with the children."
Mahatma Gandhi

"We are interconnected. When a baby boy's sexuality is not safe, no one's sexuality is safe."
Ronald Goldman, Ph.D., author of Circumcision, The Hidden Trauma : How an American Cultural Practice Affects Infants and Ultimately Us All

And one more thing —
“Pick-Up Artist” Site on Mass Shooting: ‘More People Will Die Unless You Give Men Sexual Options’
https://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/05/26/3441585/anti-woman-site-predicts-more-deaths/

Here’s an idea: give ALL American men the ‘sexual option’ of deciding for themselves whether or not they want a normal sex life and normal sexual pleasure with a complete, fully-functioning normal penis.

Whether we realize it or not, or want to acknowledge it or not, the United States is a patriarchal genital cutting culture. Rape culture and genital cutting culture go hand in glove. If you want to end rape culture and stop creating men who are sexually violent, then stop inflicting sexual violence on boys.

[Glia]

IMO American women have created their own problem. Amazing San Francisco intactivist Jonathan Conte pegged it:

"You want to see rape culture? Look no further than the women with such disdain for the male body that they carve it up without consent, then mock the victims afterward." - Jonathon Conte

... Here’s an idea: give ALL American men the ‘sexual option’ of deciding for themselves whether or not they want a normal sex life and normal sexual pleasure with a complete, fully-functioning normal penis.

Whether we realize it or not, or want to acknowledge it or not, the United States is a patriarchal genital cutting culture. Rape culture and genital cutting culture go hand in glove. If you want to end rape culture and stop creating men who are sexually violent, then stop inflicting sexual violence on boys.

[meherc]

I don't think that's what Terr, Menninger and Mahatma Ghandi were referring to. I have to hand it to you, you anticircumcision people are really intense about what you believe but whenever I have a discussion with you/them, they insist that women prefer uncircumcised men (many, many of us don't -actually I've never met a woman who did- BUT that doesn't mean they don't exist).

If we like you, we like you the way you are.; that the sex is better if you are not circumcised (no diff for women and how could men possibly know, unless you were circumcised at 24 and had a chance to feel both options).. It's one of those topics you never bring up at parties, like god.

People who don't believe in god or spirituality insist they're right and the rest of us are idiots. Same with circumcision. Sorry your lives were ruined. And I truly am sorry that you feel so wounded by the idea of it that you can build a whole life around blaming that for all of your problems.

I hope this doesn't sound mean or dismissive, I don't want to be unkind. It just seems like by focusing so much on the far unchangeable past, you're missing the passionate loving woman who is standing right in front of you. So you won't circumcise your kids.

Unlike most of the recent mass killers, UC Santa Barbara spree killer Elliot Rodger used both knives and guns. His first three victims where his male Chinese-American roommates; he stabbed them to death with a knife. Then he got in the BMW his rich daddy gave him and started shooting what he considered to be snooty sorority girls and their male companions. Because one of his targets was women who had rejected his sexual advances, it has stirred up the ‘violence against women’ and ‘rape culture’ discussion yet again.

There is the usual speculation around how he fell through the proverbial mental health cracks:

Did Elliot Rodger’s Therapists Fail? What prevents law enforcement and mental health professionals from stopping a killer?

“… Last week, Elliot Rodger killed six people in Isla Vista, California. Like [Adam] Lanza, Rodger was mentally ill. Unlike Lanza, Rodger had extensive contact with both mental health professionals and law enforcement authorities. Rodger’s parents had long been concerned about his erratic behavior. A lawyer for Rodger’s father said Elliot Rodger had been seeing multiple therapists. Santa Barbara police visited his apartment six months before the shooting but found nothing in his demeanor to be concerned about. …”

https://www.slate.com/articles/healt...recognize.html ...

[Glia]

The only person discussing "what women prefer" is you. Only within the context of a genital cutting culture would anyone even think of such a thing, let alone put it in writing and post it in a public venue.

Ask women from just about any part of the world outside of Muslim and Jewish theocracies, some tribal areas of Africa, and the English-speaking countries still practicing this insanity (Canada, Australia, UK, US) what man-parts format they prefer, and they would think you are some sort of kook -- and not just for asking a question like that. What "women prefer" is blatant sexism. How would you react if a man posted about what type of lady-parts he prefers?

This video of an interview with an English woman who is also an MD illustrates the corrosive and harmful effects of genital cutting cultures. Genital cutting on children is a virus of the mind, as this woman found out the hard way. Her story starts at 1:08 into the clip. (also note the very British picketing action at the beginning )

https://vimeo.com/99325314

So what if Terr, Menninger and Ghandi were not referring to genital cutting on children. If their comments are applicable, and they are, what does it matter? Another red herring to detract from the fundamental precept:

IF IT IS NOT YOUR BODY, IT IS NOT YOUR CHOICE.

Expand

I don't think that's what Terr, Menninger and Mahatma Ghandi were referring to. I have to hand it to you, you anticircumcision people are really intense about what you believe but whenever I have a discussion with you/them, they insist that women prefer uncircumcised men (many, many of us don't -actually I've never met a woman who did- BUT that doesn't mean they don't exist).

[meherc]

Oh, bad me. I said it out loud.

The only person discussing "what women prefer" is you. Only within the context of a genital cutting culture would anyone even think of such a thing, let alone put it in writing and post it in a public venue....

[wisewomn]

I looked up the prevalence of circumcision worldwide. You might find it interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preval...f_circumcision

My son was born in England, and although his father was a circumcised American. we opted not to put him through the trauma. Many English men are uncircumcised. My son's son is uncircumcised.

I think that circumcision became more prevalent in areas where water scarcity was an issue and was couched in ritual over time. It has spread to Western countries because of the influence of Semitic (Islamic and Jewish) cultures. It really is unnecessary, IMO.

As for "what women prefer," I think that is largely due to what women are used to.

The only person discussing "what women prefer" is you. Only within the context of a genital cutting culture would anyone even think of such a thing, let alone put it in writing and post it in a public venue.

Ask women from just about any part of the world outside of Muslim and Jewish theocracies, some tribal areas of Africa, and the English-speaking countries still practicing this insanity (Canada, Australia, UK, US) what type of male genitals they prefer, and they would think you are some sort of kook. What "women prefer" is blatant sexism. How would you react if a man posted about what type of pussy he prefers?...

[geomancer]

Circumcision was promoted back in the day to help discourage masturbation - imagine that. In fact, it was advocated for both genders. See the following:

https://www.cirp.org/library/history/darby4/

The masturbation taboo and the rise of routine male circumcision:
A review of the historiography - Review Essay
Robert Darby

"It is this issue that I wish to address here. By means of a review of the historiography of both the masturbation phobia and the rise of routine circumcision I hope to shed light on how significant the aim of preventing masturbation was in this process. To anticipate my conclusions, I shall argue that it has been widely accepted by medical historians since the 1950s that discouraging masturbation was a major reason why doctors, educationists and childcare experts sought to introduce widespread circumcision of both boys and girls in the nineteenth century, a campaign which was successful in the former case, unsuccessful in the latter--an outcome which still colours popular concepts about what constitutes genital mutilation. I suggest that a result of the partial character of this victory has been a high degree of blindness on the issue: while the treatment of hysteria and masturbation in women by clitoridectomy was noticed early on (and condemned with indignation), the comparable operation on boys (amputation of the foreskin) has been either ignored or given only fleeting attention, and has rarely been regarded with the same degree of abhorrence. I will also attempt to show the theological basis for much of the medical argument against masturbation and suggest that moral concern has always been an important element of the motivation for circumcision."

I looked up the prevalence of circumcision worldwide. You might find it interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preval...f_circumcision

My son was born in England, and although his father was a circumcised American. we opted not to put him through the trauma. Many English men are uncircumcised. My son's son is uncircumcised...

[wisewomn]

A couple of years ago, there was an article in the PD about a world-wide (maybe only the Western world, given the results) survey of women asking which country they thought had the best lovers. The US did not make the cut (no pun intended) as the men were deemed "too controlling." The winners were Italy, Spain, and Brazil--all countries where circumcision is not common. FWIW.

Circumcision was promoted back in the day to help discourage masturbation - imagine that. In fact, it was advocated for both genders. See the following:

https://www.cirp.org/library/history/darby4/

The masturbation taboo and the rise of routine male circumcision:
A review of the historiography - Review Essay
Robert Darby

"It is this issue that I wish to address here...

[SoCo Intactivists]

Expand

Rape culture and genital cutting culture go hand in glove. If you want to end rape culture and stop creating men who are sexually violent, then stop inflicting sexual violence on boys.

[theindependenteye]

>>>Rape culture and genital cutting culture go hand in glove. If you want to end rape culture and stop creating men who are sexually violent, then stop inflicting sexual violence on boys.

Any verifification of this assertion? Orthodox Jews and Muslims have higher rates of rape than in Spain or India? I'm willing to be convinced, as it'd be much easier to fix our culture if there were one prime cause of the violence that pervades it rather than the thousand plagues we've brought upon ourselves via poverty, sexual hypocrisy, media image, family dysfunction, etc. etc., but I'd appreciate some bit of evidence that this is the case.

Personally, I think circumcision is a stupid, pointless, and probably harmful thing to do, but I feel that statements like the above are counterproductive -- exactly the same mode of logic that would assert that the murder rate in the US goes "hand in glove" with legalized abortion.

Maybe that's the only way to get anyone's attention. Solid facts don't seem to be very effective in changing anyone's mind. But in this case I think the strategy needs to be rethought.

Peace—\
Conrad

[Alex]

..... Personally, I think circumcision is a stupid, pointless, and probably harmful thing to do, ...
Peace—\
Conrad

When I was faced with this decision these points were indisputable to me:

1. Nature had not made any mistake that I was required to fix.
2. I had no right of decision whatsoever to cut off any part of another human being, let alone from their most personal part, let alone to suddenly put a days old being through the trauma of incredible pain and confusion as a first experience emanating from that most sensitive part.
3. It's not like some opportunity is gone after infancy - let alone any real need or preference anyway until in a committed sexual relationship. My son has every right to make that choice for himself anytime after 18 if he wants.

Might be interesting to look for any statistics on how many men choose it for themselves after 18 or don't consider it an issue or problem.

https://www.circumcision.org/adults.htm
Only men circumcised as adults can experience the difference a foreskin makes.
"...After the circumcision there was a major change. It was like night and day. I lost most sensation. I would give anything to get the feeling back. I would give my house. ....Slowly the area lost its sensitivity, and as it did, I realized I had lost something rather vital. Stimuli that had previously aroused ecstasy had relatively little effect. . . . Circumcision destroys a very joyful aspect of the human experience for males and females. The greatest disadvantage of circumcision is the awful loss of sensitivity when the foreskin is removed. . . . On a scale of 10, the intact penis experiences pleasure that is at least 11 or 12; the circumcised penis is lucky to get to 3...."

Makes me wonder if this incredibly diminished sensitivity of circumcision is the major factor to so many males unaware of the reasons for their constant obsession and quest for any titilation and repeated release with no requirement of it being personal - a maddening quest that never, never, never delivers lasting gratification whether from a personal relationship or not.