Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

[Sara S]

From what I hear, China is challenging us in the pollution field.......

The "they" you refer to is us. It is our profligate lifestyle (especially that of USAmericans) that has destabilized the climate, with unpleasant consequences we have only begun to see.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
--Walt Kelly

[hummingbird]

I would agree with you Dixon if there was not a HUGE overt and covert disinformation campaign to keep us sucking in fossil fuels and other poisons.

The "they" you refer to is us. It is our profligate lifestyle (especially that of USAmericans) that has destabilized the climate, with unpleasant consequences we have only begun to see.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
--Walt Kelly

[kpage9]

Kate you expressed gratitude for this, and then didn't answer it. Or did I miss you response?
kathy

Kate,

With apologies for any previous snark (seriously--i don't like it any better than you do. sometimes it gets the better of me) i still don't quite grasp this: they took our normal winters and our rain---to what end, do you believe?

kathy

[Dixon]

From what I hear, China is challenging us in the pollution field.......

Not per capita. They have a lot more people than we do.

[Rustie]

Thank you Dixon, succinct and to the point. Difficult for many to grasp this as it involves definitive personal action to change our lifestyles. Much easier to point to evil-doers, swap out our gas guzzler for a hybrid and continue life as usual.

The "they" you refer to is us. It is our profligate lifestyle (especially that of USAmericans) that has destabilized the climate, with unpleasant consequences we have only begun to see.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
--Walt Kelly

[CSummer]

I believe this was the question: "i still don't quite grasp this: they took our normal winters and our rain---
to what end, do you believe?"

I see no reason why attempting to make sense out of geoengineering (of which "chemtrails" may be
one technique) is "going into the realm of conspiracy theory." You see something apparently being
done on a global scale but there's an almost total blackout of information from official sources.
Seems perfectly natural to want to understand why this would be happening. It also seems quite
logical if I make some effort to think like an oil magnate (and here's my imagining of what they
might think):

Yes, burning all this fossil fuel is dumping enormous amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, and
of course you can't do that without consequences. But the problem isn't just too much carbon
causing a greenhouse effect; it's an imbalance of substances (okay, pollutants) that needs to
be corrected. If you are trapping too much heat in the atmosphere, the solution is to reduce the
amount of heat getting in. I'm sure the weather modification folks have some ideas for how to
do this. Oh yes, look here - not only ideas, but patents on the very methods we need! Let's get
this happening!

What do you mean "side-effects?" Oh, well, yes, there are always going to be some problems
with whatever you try. But we have a serious problem on our hands here. If we don't get a handle
on this global warming problem quickly, all that methane frozen under the oceans could come
bubbling up and we'll really be in deep shit! Do you want to deal with some droughts and deluges
as by products of geoengineering, or would you prefer a mass extinction event? I mean it's pretty
clear we can't phase out fossil fuel burning fast enough - just too much inertia in this billion-dollar
industry! Too much invested to make a rapid shift to carbon-neutral energy; what would happen
to the economy?! Anyway, it's cheaper to pump a lot of metal-oxide aerosols into the stratosphere
(and whatever else will bring temperatures down). And we better just do it and not talk about it, so
our corporate images aren't associated with the undesirable impacts.
----------------------
Makes perfect sense to me. It's a pretty sad situation when most of us seem caught up in a way of
life and economic system that has us in a "damned if you do; damned if you don't" situation. I look
around and it seems to continue. People still flock to the big-box stores, the freeways are still full
of our vehicles, we hardly think twice about buying airline tickets. Even the food we eat used gallons
of petroleum to produce and transport (less if it's local and organic).

When the path you're on is leading toward catastrophe, it makes sense to stop and seek another path.
Who wants to be part of an economic malignancy that continues to grow and spread, destroying its
own host? There is another way, but it means learning to meet our needs without depending on earth-
and life-destroying production systems. It means working together to create alternatives to the fossil-
fuel-based economy. It may cost us more at the outset, but can we really afford the cheap way if it's
trashing our planet?

CSummer

Hi Kathy, Sorry, didn't see the question.
That is the million or billion or trillion dollar question. I honestly cannot answer it. My heart breaks when I see the sky as it was today, when I feel the heat, when I know how the weather fronts have been manipulated, destabilized to send our moisture to the east, and to make the west burn. I cannot know why. But I do not believe it is just global warming as a result of carbon.
I wish I had a better answer, but to go further would really be to go into the realm of conspiracy theory. I'm not prepared to speculate, at least not here. I hope you understand.

Best to you, Kate

[jbox]

To C. Summer --
If this were a benevolent program to shield the earth from the ravages of global warming, why not tell the public? Clifford Carnicom has found that this program is actually working to trap heat, and it is causing the earth to warm. Therefore, this is not a program designed to offset global warming.

The reason that I hesitate to comment on the real motivation is that its true purposes are so deleterious that to even speak of it on this thread would be to invite further attack and ridicule. The truth is that those directing our "leadership" have depopulation, the biomodification of all life, as well as other military and geophysical purposes. Clifford Carnicom has laid it out well in the research to which I have already alluded, and which has been cast off as unworthy by some commenters on this thread.

Sincerely, K. Willens

So, as horrible as it may seem, the truth is out there and now we know..... the Reptilian Overlords are in total control. Oh, my goodness!!

Dixon, your comment?

[kpage9]

Kate,

It didn't seem possible to me that you had no idea what might be behind "aerosols", and the resulting theft of our winters, as you said a few days ago, quoted here:


Hi Kathy, Sorry, didn't see the question.
That is the million or billion or trillion dollar question. I honestly cannot answer it.

But you were just pretending not to know in hopes of avoiding further challenge?

The reason that I hesitate to comment on the real motivation is that its true purposes are so deleterious that to even speak of it on this thread would be to invite further attack and ridicule. The truth is that those directing our "leadership" have depopulation, the biomodification of all life, as well as other military and geophysical purposes.

This is where it seems to fall apart, Kate--your whole mission seems to be to wake us up to the horrible stuff happening...but you don't want to say what that really is? i mean...depopulation, for example. to whose benefit?

i would still really like to know.

kathy

[Dixon]

So, as horrible as it may seem, the truth is out there and now we know..... the Reptilian Overlords are in total control. Oh, my goodness!!
Dixon, your comment?

Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[Gus diZerega]

A few years ago there was an interesting report of an experiment exploring how people reacted to feelings of powerlessness. The core discovery was

"a set of experiments that used a variety of psychological tricks to induce feelings of insecurity among groups of volunteers. With these tricks, they managed to induce a number of different illusions – increasing the risk of seeing false images, making links between unrelated events, creating conspiracy theories and even accepting superstitious rituals. Superficially, all of these behaviours seem quite different but they all involve seeing patterns where none exist. They have a common theme and now, this study suggests that they have a common motive too. . . ."

"Of course, there are instances when making false connections can be downright damaging . . . Imagined pharmaceutical conspiracies or implications drawn about medicines from one-off anecdotes could drive people to embrace fruitless or potentially dangerous forms of alternative treatment. People can avoid taking responsibility for, or psychologically coping with, events in their lives if they ascribe them to higher powers or sinister agencies. And seeing too much meaning in the actions of others could lead to paranoia and severed social ties.

"[Their] work suggests that it’s possible to counteract the inclination to see misleading patterns by instilling people with a greater sense of security and control. In their own words, studies like these 'hold promise for preventing futile pursuits born of the perception of illusory patterns.' "


https://scienceblogs.com/notrocketsc...racy-theories/

As I mentioned earlier those viewing the conspiracy present their case in a way that accentuates all feelings of powerlessness while simultaneously making themselves part of an elite that are "in the know." The Gambles who put out the movie "Thrive" demonstrate how ideology encourages seeing these false patterns, but most of their followers are not libertarians and see them as well- thereby confirming themselves as an elite who know the answer to our problems (just do what the movie recommends) while never ever making a solid case as to what to do against the evil forces assaulting us. For the Gambles it's the Illumaniti. For others its the reptilians. For others it's maybe the Greys. For the radical right it's the "homosexual agenda" or "libs." Always it makes the believers out as uniquely insightful while confirming everyone's powerlessness to do anything except maybe prepare for apocalypse.

I wonder what we are seeing here- along with the worst of the Tea Patty as another manifestation - is the result of the growing powerlessness of people in a society that claims power is the most important value? ('Makers not takers' and other twaddle.)

Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[TyrannyNews]

... Imagined pharmaceutical conspiracies...

I find it ironic, yet it's no coincidence that the publication you quoted uses pharmaceutical companies in their example scenario where delusions of conspiracies can lead people to danger. My news feed just included an article presenting evidence that ignorance of the very real conspiracies is the true danger. It's from Natural News, which I don't endorse but the facts appear to be what they are. So, read the following and ask yourself if it's just an "illusory pattern."

But, before you do I'd like to explain something about having a sense of control and power over one's life. Is it reasonable to assume that people who defer to authority or "experts" do so at little risk and cost to their reputation? I think it is. Conversely, wouldn't those who choose to disbelieve authority or "experts" do so at greater risk and cost to their reputation? Which behavior demonstrates greater control over one's life?

Here's a tougher one for you. If a person was inclined to always denounce conspiracy theories and ridicule the people who give them credence, would it be even slightly possible that they were doing so at the behest of agencies seeking to hide their crimes? Would that even be a possibility, no matter how remote? Conversely, if a person was inclined to suspect certain conspiracies (not all, just some) were very real and attempted to share their concern about them, would it be possible they were doing so for some deceptive reason or at the behest of someone else? Would that be a possibility? Would spreading disinformation be a possible motive? What other agenda would this serve? Between the 2 examples, which sounds more likely?

"The Attorney General of South Carolina...sued five pharmaceutical companies for conducting a price-fixing conspiracy to defraud the state of Medicaid money.

Similarly, in 2008, a federal judge ruled that three pharmaceutical companies artificially marked up their prices in order to defraud Medicare.

In fact, dozens of U.S. states have filed suit against pharmaceutical companies for actions that are conspiracies: conspiracy to engage in price fixing, conspiracy to bribe doctors, conspiracy to defraud the state and so on.

The massive drug company GlaxoSmithKline, even more, plead guilty to a massive criminal fraud case involving a global conspiracy to bribe doctors into prescribing more GSK drugs."

"The FDA conspired with a drug manufacturer to keep a deadly diabetes drug called Rezulin on the market in the USA even after safety regulators pulled the product in Europe.

Similarly, the corrupt, criminal-minded operators of mainstream science journals conspired in a particularly evil way to railroad Dr. Andrew Wakefield with provably false accusations about the nature of his research into the side effects of vaccines. The GMO Seralini study has been similarly railroaded by a genuine conspiracy of evil, corrupt science journal editors who routinely conspire to suppress all the science they don't want to be seen by the public. Fortunately, 150 other scientists have come to support Seralini with a global condemnation of the obviously contrived scientific censorship."

Source of the above reference:
https://www.naturalnews.com/045172_c...#ixzz324wwHmWz

[Jude Iam]

Meteorologists begin public admissions -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54YX5o4yfLM

[hummingbird]

Thank you for the Link..... the hard part will now will be to decipher all the stories that are coming out about what it is all truly intended to do. It's a shame that we have such a difficult time exploring this topic with out the the need to prove one another crazy. I think there are some folks here who have their finger on the pulse of something important for the rest of us to pay attention to.

What is this stuff about reptilian overlords? That calls my attention. Is it about brains? Is it a joke? It feels like there is a charge?

Meteorologists begin public admissions -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54YX5o4yfLM

[Dixon]

I would agree with you Dixon if there was not a HUGE overt and covert disinformation campaign to keep us sucking in fossil fuels and other poisons.

I don't see how that contradicts at all my statement about our profligate lifestyle causing global climate change.

[Dixon]

What is this stuff about reptilian overlords?

From the Wikipedia page on "Reptilians":
"Reptilians (also called reptoids, reptiloids, or draconians) are purported reptilian humanoids that play a prominent role in science fiction, as well as modern ufology and conspiracy theories. The idea of reptilians on Earth was popularized by David Icke, a conspiracy theorist who says shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies. Icke has claimed on multiple occasions that many of the world leaders are, or are possessed by, reptilians ruling the world."

Icke's conspiracy theory is surprisingly popular considering how bizarre it is. It reads like bad science fiction. Do I know for sure it's not true? Nope. But the claim that shape-shifting, blood-sucking reptilians from the "lower part of the Fourth Dimension" are secretly ruling our planet is so apparently silly that I file it under "claims so unlikely to be true that I needn't devote any time to researching them". I was even using "Reptilian Overlord" as my Wacco screen title, but that seems to have disappeared recently. I'm sure the person who invoked reptilians in this thread meant it as a put-down of those who believe in "chemtrails", by associating the one conspiracy theory with the other. And for all I know, there may be some overlap between the chemtrail believers and the reptilian overlord believers--maybe even here on Wacco?

[ukiahrose]

Thanks, Hummingbird, for offering a solution to chem spraying and many other obscene acts by our enslaved leadership:

Each one of us can neutralize these acts of treason and murder of this and future generations being foisted on us by taking one simple step together. Bucky Fuller and Albert Einstein would also concur.

“In indigenous traditions from around the world humans directly affect weather. So there must be at least a few of us during this time of unleashing our human potential that have the ability to do this. If one person in every village could do it (maybe another couple in training) then how many folks here in west county have this ability?”

Hummingbird: “It is also important to note how much personal attack and dismissal go into the effort to deny this possibility. Why?”

It does seem a little weird on a “progressive” website.

And, those who slap a label of conspiracy theorists, for free, on the carefully researched work of folks, who truly care about humanity’s plight, are the duped ones.

There are folks on the net who are paid good money to seek out any situations where they can label others as “conspiracy theorists” to discourage truths, long hidden, from being exposed by conscious community work.

Thank you for your thoughtful, intelligence and active change post!!!

It appears to my untrained eyes that the lines in the sky are somewhat random.....Living several times in my life under the flight routes of local airports...

[podfish]

I'm sure the person who invoked reptilians in this thread meant it as a put-down of those who believe in "chemtrails", by associating the one conspiracy theory with the other. And for all I know, there may be some overlap between the chemtrail believers and the reptilian overlord believers--maybe even here on Wacco?

that's how I read the comment in an earlier post that the purpose of chemtrails is not to prevent global warming, but is part of a plot to increase it. Seemed like a thinly veiled reference to me. If it did indeed have another meaning, I'm ready to be corrected.

[Barry]

From the Wikipedia page on "Reptilians":
"Reptilians (also called reptoids, reptiloids, or draconians) are purported reptilian humanoids that play a prominent role in science fiction, as well as modern ufology and conspiracy theories. The idea of reptilians on Earth was popularized by David Icke, a conspiracy theorist who says shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies. Icke has claimed on multiple occasions that many of the world leaders are, or are possessed by, reptilians ruling the world."

Here's a video of David Icke introducing the notion of reptilian overlords! And I thought it was just a joke made up by the skeptics to poke fun other outlandish theories (like the Flying Spaghetti Monster) . He's serious! He gets to the meat of it around the 4 minute mark.

[hummingbird]

Thanks Dixon. That's the first explanation I've heard for the behavior of the federal government that makes sense..... So these reptilians might be behind the chem trails too? I wonder what they are trying to do? Why would shape shifters want to spray us with all that stuff?....hmmmm... my curiosity is up.

From the Wikipedia page on "Reptilians":
"Reptilians (also called reptoids, reptiloids, or draconians) are purported reptilian humanoids that play a prominent role...

[Gus diZerega]

TyrannyNews, I am most likely as aware of the shortcomings of Big Pharma as you are, and have probably written about them more than you have. But what they do that is wrong, such as bribing doctors, not reporting on bad lab tests of their products, fixing prices, or manipulating patent law, do not require conspiracies beyond the mendacity of a single company or small number of companies, or the corruption that arises when a regulatory agency's people are in a revolving door relationship with those producing what they are regulating. Look at bank regulation. It's corruption. In other less common cases enthusiasts take a well-meaning trend such as vaccination to extremes, but people disagree legitimately as to where the extremes begin. Few sane people question smallpox vaccinations. Vaccinating everyone for everything we have vaccines for is at the other end of crazy.

There is a long history of some scientific elites using dirty tactics against those with whom they disagree because before they are scientists they are people, with the same basic drives as anyone else. What I do not know of are examples of entire scientific communities suppressing alternative views because scientists often rise to fame by challenging accepted orthodoxies. Schools of thought suppress other schools all the time- but in science there are many schools of thought and many graduate students and young scientists looking to earn their spurs. All your reported examples fit the very human phenomena.

They also have one other characteristic: they are amenable to evaluation by evidence available to any competent researcher.

In this respect these examples are entirely different from the chemtrail issue which if it exists involves a worldwide conspiracy of thousands of participants extending from those making the chemicals or bio-agents or whatever to those attaching the canisters to the planes to those filling them to the pilots releasing them- all for reasons having no observable financial payoffs. I find that intrinsically unbelievable until more evidence than what I have encountered in these discussions presents.

Do conspiracies ever exist? Of course they have and do. I have published a rather extensive discussion of the Koch brother's conspiracy against American democracy, one picked up by Alternet and Truthout, among others. https://dizerega.com/2013/10/08/the-kochs-role-in-the-conspiracy-against-american-democracy/ Check it out sometime. My argument did not depend on massive numbers of conspiring people or evil motives. It referred readers to verifiable issues connected by a chain of reasonable logic without reducing it to evil or to nefarious motives. But it did describe a genuine conspiracy - the Kochs are pursuing a tactic that depends on most not knowing about it to work. And the issue is important. It made concrete enough statements that people could in principle rebut it, though so far none have.

Because of the nature of conspiracy theories, for many of those most attracted to them ALL countervailing evidence is evidence for how devilishly clever the conspirators are. It is like Fundamentalist relatives telling me that fossils are evidence of God's sense of humor or when Goldwater lost to Johnson extreme right wingers claimed he lost the election because he was Jewish- in a plot to undermine the conservative movement at its greatest chance of victory. To me, your reply is a perfect example of that approach.

In my opinion conspiracy theories attract lazy analysis. Consider one episode from this chemtrails discussion. One person wrote that contrails are rare whereas chemtrails are common. I showed photographs from WWII demonstrating they were nothing unusual 70 years ago. Silence.

Another example: Scott showed reports from atmospheric books published over decades refuting the commonly described ways to distinguish between chemtrails and contrails. Again silence.

There is no discussion when evidence against conspiratorial claims is ignored.

When evaluating a conspiracy claim it seems to me several questions have to be answered in ways we find reasonable, and the more extreme the claim the more demanding we need be that the answers be convincing and eliminate reasonable alternatives:

1. Who gains from the conspiracy? I see no one who gains from chemtrails. Chemicals or bio agents scattered at the altitude jets fly will come to ground all over the earth. Even advocates of chemtrails suggest many alternative theories as to what is happening- which means they have no coherent theory.

2. How many people are involved in the supposed conspiracy? The more that are the less likely it is to exist.

3. How long has the supposed conspiracy existed? The longer it has supposedly existed the less likely it is to be real.

4. Is there physical evidence the conspiracy exists and does it resist explanation by more mundane accounts? There is no such evidence that anyone has described.

5. What motives would enable reasonably normal people to participate in the conspiracy? I have seen no discussion at all of this. Alternatively, how could bad people so successfully find one another so that there is never a leak, never a person who becomes disillusioned and spills the beans, no whistle blower with samples. Given the difficulty of government or corporations keeping far smaller szecrets, this beggars the imagination and yet is simply taken for granted by those advocating that such things exist.

6. If a person believes in many conspiracies that fail the above questions, their judgment on any one of them is suspect. For example, that many global warming deniers are also often birthers is evidence to me of their incompetence in evaluating complex questions.

For an example of an aerial conspiracy that hurt people and really did happen, the military spread chemical agents in some areas of the US. There was a small number of people involved, convinced they were studying germ warfare that might be employed by either side in a future was. It did not last long, physical evidence existed, and people found out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugway_sheep_incident

Is your view absolutely impossible? No. proving a negative is impossible. But the more people that are involved, the longer the conspiracy supposedly has been going on, and then worse the required motives for it to happen, the more improbable it becomes. They should be our last choice for explaining, not our first.

I find it ironic, yet it's no coincidence that the publication you quoted uses pharmaceutical companies in their example scenario...

[TyrannyNews]

Here's a video of David Icke introducing the notion of reptilian overlords! And I thought it was just a joke made up by the skeptics to poke fun other outlandish theories (like the Flying Spaghetti Monster) . He's serious! He gets to the meat of it around the 4 minute mark.

What was even more interesting, to me was how a group of people took the conspiracy even further. Jewish groups, although I don't recall if it officially reached the level of the ADL or not reacted strongly to David Icke's theory. Their public position was that, when David spoke of Lizards or Reptiles he was actually covertly referring to Jews. They were very serious and vocal to the point of disrupting his appearances, etc.

To my thinking, when a man says he thinks some people are shape-shifting reptilians, he's talking about shape-shifting reptilians. Of course, some people will shout anti-Semite just for the sport of it. Did they truly believe it? It probably didn't matter to them, as he served as a fresh target. It reminds me of the many people who claim to be of the opinion that "truthers" or "birthers" or whatever are in fact mentally ill or of limited intellect. Do they really believe it? Well, let's just say that the claims are usually packaged inside smug insults. So, my hope is that they don't.

[podfish]

From someone on Facebook who shows the difference in the skies between yesterday and today; like night and day, and yet the same atmospheric conditions apply.

um, this is instead proof that the two days have different atmospheric conditions

[jbox]

Thanks Dixon. That's the first explanation I've heard for the behavior of the federal government that makes sense..... So these reptilians might be behind the chem trails too? I wonder what they are trying to do? Why would shape shifters want to spray us with all that stuff?....hmmmm... my curiosity is up.

As Robert Stack in Dr. Strangelove so famously said: "they want our precious bodily fluids"

[iPragmatist]

Wikipedia is an extremely left leaning organization and their comments tend to be left leaning, and not of a reasonable nor educated slant. If you google chemtrails, the number one site is wikipedia. Coincidence? I think not. They, like google, youtube and the rest are government collusions to make you think that all is ok when it isn't. Those of us who have been fighting against the powers that be are more that tired of those who tow the official line. If you want REAL information about chemtrails, HAARP, Agenda 21, targeted assassinations, the toxicity of fluoride in the water and more, get real, research all sites and see what the overall data brings you to. This ain't conspiracy theory. How convenient to call us that....'conspiracy theorists'. Those who claim that such things are false are brain dead. Simple really.

When I first heard about Chemtrails in the late nineties, I spent many hours looking at everything I could find online. Since I'm not a Biochemist, Climatologist, Chemicals Engineer, Aerospace Engineer or any other kind of expert in the relevant fields, I could only evaluate what I understood.

What became clear after a while is that the original claims came from a small group of websites, and a few key individuals, that cited each other in a daisy-chain of "confirmation". And the voluminous texts available all fed off each other. That was over ten years ago. I'm sure there's far more interconnected information now available.

So, as in most conspiracy theories, unless and until there is hard evidence, checked by and verified by established and reputable sources, competing sources, I will remain skeptical.

Of course, in such conspiracies, the fact that no reputable sources support the claims, is part of the "proof" that they are true. And the whole chemtrail vs. contrail distinction, is also given as "evidence".

Here's the question I've never seen Chemtrail claimants answer. If there is a vast global conspiracy to spread chemicals in the upper atmosphere for nefarious purposes (Weather Control? Terraforming for the Saurians? Genetic Engineering / Stupefaction of the Masses? Take your pick, there are several other intersecting versions.) why would the elites responsible for them expose themselves and their families to the same chemicals?

What's in it for them?

This wiki seems apropos to the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

[iPragmatist]

Nah...I live in upstate NY. We were subjected to the new fangled 'polar vortexes' this past winter. I've been alive and living in this area for 54 years, never heard of polar vortexes. Regardless....no matter the time of year, time of day, month, weather.....we ALWAYS are bombarded with chemtrails. Your simplistic and idiotic necessitation for a return to a disney soft, cozy, fluffy, safe life might be what you need to deal with your inability to deal with cognitive dissonance, but the rest of us who grew out of the need to waste away watching football, baseball and dancing with the stars might ultimately favor your exact ignorance on the real issues. You should be thankful there are those of us who are paying attention to real issues that affect you and us. The fucked up thing about this all is that you choose to be ignorant....we don't, and our work to stop this will favor you. And your response is to tell us we're nuts. Keep up the ignorance....at a time, we will hit critical mass, and nothing we or you can do will stop what is about to happen.

um, this is instead proof that the two days have different atmospheric conditions

[iPragmatist]

Noooooooooo...the enemy is 'THEM'. Do you realize that every time a rocket (aka shuttle et al) is sent into space, there is a many miles wide hole blown through the ozone, where the ozone layer is destroyed? And our military and government, as well as that of other countries, blame US for the damage THEY caused?!!! 'WE' have done a minute amount of damage compared to what 'THEY' caused, yet they are hell bent on destroying our way of life. You have to be a complete moron to have said what you did. Wake the fuck up.

The "they" you refer to is us. It is our profligate lifestyle (especially that of USAmericans) that has destabilized the climate, with unpleasant consequences we have only begun to see.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."
--Walt Kelly

[iPragmatist]

Why don't you tell us what your educational level is? Then take an IQ test and let us know the results. I ask that because it's quite obvious you are a typical close minded guy who wouldn't know the difference. Just sayin.....

Icke's conspiracy theory is surprisingly popular considering how bizarre it is. It reads like bad science fiction. ...

[iPragmatist]

Hey Gus....if you're so involved in the whole pharma thing, why didn't you mention the poisons that are in the pharma drugs? Huh? You act like you've researched so many aspects of the pharma situation, yet you don't mention the damage these pharma drugs are doing to the average person, especially kids. As far as chemtrails, contrails are NOT common, and any pictures you can site are probably showing chemtrails. They WERE around in WWII. Stop taking us all for fools....they used chemtrails to seed rain in the Viet Nam war. THAT is known. Why are you refuting the fact that today's plane engines don't produce chemtrails? You are another boring guy who wants those of us to think you are an authority. You aren't. You are a shill, you simply push lies to make others think you know what is reality. I'll debate you any time old man. That is what you are, an old, tired, lying, sack of shit old man. And people like you should be made fun of. Which I will graciously do. Take me on...I dare you. Old man. Sorry, tired, lazy, bought off, surface dweller, old man.

TyrannyNews, I am most likely as aware of the shortcomings of Big Pharma as you are, ...

[Barry]

...That is what you are, an old, tired, lying, sack of shit old man. And people like you should be made fun of. ...

To my fellow Waccos,

Please accept my apologies for being exposed to this.

I have banned iPragmatist until the "Red Pill" category has been created (for like minded "conspiracy theorists").

The more respectful "theorists", such as Kate Magdalena Willens and "TyrannyNews" are welcome to continue to post here for the time being.

Let me also take this opportunity to remind you that:

you can remove this active thread from your digest
by clicking the button at the bottom of this post (or any post in this thread).

I hope the rest of you are enjoying this dynamic discussion!

Barry

[podfish]

You should be thankful there are those of us who are paying attention to real issues that affect you and us. The fucked up thing about this all is that you choose to be ignorant...... And your response is to tell us we're nuts. ....

not all of you are nuts, but some clearly are. The nuttiest thing is to make things like chemtrails the 'real issues'. Almost no-one on their deathbed will ever say that except for the damn chemtrails, their lives would have been great and the lives of their fellow citizens would have been rich and rewarding. If threats to your precious bodily fluids (and solids, for that matter) seem like a big deal, they're far more impacted by what's in our food and medicines than they are by Fukishima fallout or lizard spray. The people who limit your freedoms and create the economy that you have to deal with are unfortunately your neighbors who tolerate and accidentally encourage the behavior of political and corporate leaders who have no reason to care much about how your life is affected by their actions. (how many letters in that sentence? tweets must be hard...) So if you're going to take hundreds of random harmful actions, undertaken by dozens or hundreds of organizations for various purposes of their own, and instead lump them together as a grand conspiracy controlled by a malevolent few, yeah, you've got a big burden of proof. Or, instead, like a group of superheros, you can just handle it for the rest of us - and we'll probably never know or say thanks.