Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

["Mad" Miles]

In Mark's defense Podfish (something I rarely essay these days) he was quoting a private communication from some unamed source. They're not his own words. Allegedly.... (I keed, I keed!!)

And in your defense, you did write "his own post" which is not definitive about authorship but I read as implying it was written by M.W.E. aka Iolchan.

[podfish]

And in your defense, you did write "his own post" which is not definitive about authorship but I read as implying it was written by M.W.E. aka Iolchan.

that's a good defense -- and accurate. Probably, though, the ambiguity is appropriate because it's ambiguous where Mark stands vis a vis those words.
It's not a severe indictment of Mark or the author, either - but it's a nod to the incongruity of the comment given its context.

[geomancer]

Meanwhile, there are other ways of gathering evidence for chemtrail phenomenon, and it has been done. It is the evidence collected from documented soil and snow samples, showing dangerously toxic, concentrated levels of aluminum, barium and arsenic where planes leaving chemtrails are frequently observed.

Studies include Rosalind Petersons’ snow samples from Colorado and soil samples from northern California, the destruction of organic farming ventures on the Island of Hawaii, as documented by Michael Murphy and Edward Griffin in the film, “What In The World Are They Spraying?”

Signed, “ No-time for cheerleaders”

So, some samples of soil and snow are reputed to show elevated concentrations of metals. Anecdotal statements like this are worthless in a court of law. I work as an environmental geologist so I deal with this topic all the time.

Questions: What were the sampling protocols? were sterile containers used? was there a chain of custody? laboratory accreditation? sample size? sample kept on ice after collection? analyzed within the accepted time limit for the EPA method(s) used? what EPA analytical methods were used? exactly when and where were the samples collected? The list goes on.

A huge issue here is the natural background concentrations of the various metals reputed to have been released. Without knowing this, the supposed evidence is worthless.

Let me give you an example. One of the remediation technologies that we use to remediated sites heavily impacted by gasoline is to inject ozone and/or hydrogen peroxide into the groundwater. These materials rapidly break down to release nascent oxygen (a single highly reactive O atom) which tears into the fuel hydrocarbons and converts them to water and CO2. Ozone also can oxidize dissolved chromium Cr+3 to a dangerous form called hexavalent chromium (Cr+6).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexavalent_chromium

Remember Erin Brockovich? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkle..._contamination

Now the issue under the Santa Rosa Plain is that there is naturally occurring Cr+3 and Cr+6 in the groundwater. Before starting ozone injection, the background concentration of Cr+6 must be measured for each remediation site. Only then can we know if we need to back off on the treatment because the Cr+6 concentration is rising above the natural background due to oxidation of Cr+3.

For these chemtrails soil "samples" to have any credence, natural background concentrations must be established. There is a hug data base on soil chemistry. To have minimal credence, this information needs to be presented along with the "toxic" soil data. Appropriate EPA protocols for soil sampling should be followed and documented.

The snow samples should be collected as a time series at each site, and the sites need to have a wide geographic distribution. It would be best if the samples were collected in fresh snow shortly after a contrail incident. Old snow will concentrate atmospheric dust fall material. That means A LOT of samples must be collected following strict EPA type protocols. Lots of work and lots of money. The people doing the sampling must have been certified as trained in proper procedures.

Without doing this, you've got nothing.

Richard

[podfish]

So, some samples of soil and snow are reputed to show elevated concentrations of metals. Anecdotal statements like this are worthless in a court of law. I work as an environmental geologist so I deal with this topic all the time.

Questions: What were the sampling protocols? were sterile containers used? was there a chain of custody? laboratory accreditation? sample size? sample kept on ice after collection? analyzed within the accepted time limit for the EPA method(s) used? what EPA analytical methods were used? exactly when and where were the samples collected? The list goes on.

in these days of easy access to obscure information, it's easy (for me at least) to forget the huge gap between amateur and professional. Before the intranets an amateur couldn't get enough information to make any kind of a case. Now everyone's opinion can look (to the rest of us amateurs, at least) pretty solid and equivalent to anyone else's.
Thanks for highlighting the kind of boring technical details that separate the barstool conversation from the technical debate. It's true that showing disdain for these tedious details, like making actual measurements of altitude with tools and techniques that can be verified correct, characterizes the wacco debates. They're fun, though; and since not all of us can or are willing to go to the lengths it takes to establish "facts" I think you should probably stop throwing a wet blanket on the argument here....

[podfish]

...They're fun, though; and since not all of us can or are willing to go to the lengths it takes to establish "facts" I think you should probably stop throwing a wet blanket on the argument here....

I don't think I should have had to put a in my post, do you?
after some recent other threads, I'm not so sure.

[danejasper]

Check it out - "Contrail in a bottle!": https://youtu.be/YUdR9xESD64

Contrails are basic physics, not a vast conspiracy.

-Dane

[Alex]

Check it out - "Contrail in a bottle!": https://youtu.be/YUdR9xESD64

Contrails are basic physics, not a vast conspiracy.

-Dane

What basic physics suddenly changed in 1997?

Contrails, technically ‘ice crystal trailings’ of airplanes, had an extremely short life-span until dissipated for the entire history of aviation until these never before seen expanding and extremely long lingering patterns began appearing in 1997 all over the world:

I hate being lied to or being an illegally used non-consenting guinea pig. I find pictures, reports and testimony like these disturbing and there are now 1000's and 1000's more available worldwide by seemingly respectable people if you look, keep an open mind and add up the evidence. I have concluded that the responsible thing to do is take the issue seriously, stay informed and figure out how best to protect myself and my family:

-KSLA NEWS REPORTS DANGEROUSLY HIGH BARIUM LEVELS July 12 2009
"KSLA NEWS reporter Jeff Farrel, out of Shreveport Louisiana aired a segment on chemtrails this week reporting the finding of atmospheric barium levels more than 3 times the safe limit set by the EPA..."
-LAS VEGAS TRIBUNE LINKS MASS ILLNESS TO CHEMTRAILS
"And even in the face of government denials, environmental laboratories have begun to identify an extremely toxic component of the spray drifting over cities and countryside...."
-THE IDAHO OBSERVER
"According to a report published 8/28/06 in The Idaho Observer recent lab reports found the following in samples of chemtrail fall-out: bacteria including anthrax and pneumonia, 9 chemicals including acetylcholine chloride, 26 heavy metals including arsenic, lead, barium, mercury and uranium, 4 molds and fungi, 7 viruses, 2 cancers, 2 vaccines and 2 sedatives...."
ITALIAN CHEMTRAIL RESEARCHERS COME TO SURVEY US-CANADA
"... the Italians were especially interested in the experience of Espanola. Repeatedly overflown by photo-identified U.S. Air Force tankers spraying lingering white plumes that made people sick over 50 square-miles in the spring and summer of 2001, this small community west of Sudbury, Ontario was the first to petition a national government to stop chemtrail spraying...."
CHEMTRAIL FIBERS FOUND TO CONTAIN NEMATODE EGGS
"Morgellons researchers Hildegarde Staninger PhD and Dr. Rahim Karjoom have discovered parasitic nematode eggs of some type encased in the chemtrail fibers..."
TOXIC SKY: KNBC REPORT ON VIDEO
"Another chink in the armor of non coverage of the very serious chemtrails situation by mainstream media. This report from KNBC Los Angeles is the first TV news report to cover chemtrails in a major media market....."

and on and on and on....... . There's sorting to do, but credible evidence and serious questions are not hard to find, including over your head.

Rather be as informed and safe as possible than stabbed in the back.
Alex

[podfish]

What basic physics suddenly changed in 1997?

ok, someone's got to go through their Mathew Brady collection now.

[Peace Voyager]

Great response.

Why do you think it is that Dane is smart enough to run a high tech company, Sonic; but not able to see the truth before his eyes, in his very own sky?

The logical conclusion is; he has bought into the notion that weather modification is good for us; and the Public is too dumb to handle it; therefore, we who notice it, are made to look like "conspiracy theorist".

Match this thread up with the one on why people aren't feeling well; we'll be better able to draw better conclusions.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...226#post150226

Having such artifically filtered sunlight, for so long; compromises our health, as well as, plant and animal life.

Ask your photographer friends to do some time lapse comparison; of vapor trials from a regular plane, and a Weather Modification jet's residue and expansion.

Weather Modification Deniers be warned; people with so little powers of observation, are not to be trusted; your opinions are not valid. Using the word science next to your claims does not invalidate the actual witnessing of current events, by mass numbers of people worldwide.

Cultivation of our species on another planet is not an option either. Cleaning up the mess that's been made on Earth, is the only science we need to be spending money on.

Too much trust in technology, and the ego involved in thinking you can out-engineer nature - is Ecocide. The risk; to not just our childrens' future, but all species on our beloved planet; is never to be underestimated.

People with the means and power like Dane, and Bill Gates; two of many in the top 10%, who dictate our nation's priories; really scare me.

When it's clear they are so disconnected to the natural sky, they can't, or won't recognize the eco-disaster before us all; we better get busy with an action plan to Occupy everyone with this info; before what is "natural" is lost forever.

Go fly a kite Dane; maybe you'll forget about the social engineering you signed up to do.

Everyone please see this site:

https://globalskywatch.com/stories/m...trail-con.html

See the animated "chem trails" in the movies "Cars" and "Over the Hedge". This is how they are trying to condition us to think this is normal. This is a conspiracy fact. If you ever bother to check, before posting again; you would know the difference.

https://globalskywatch.com/chemtrail...mber=50#Post50

[podfish]

Why do you think it is that Dane is ... not able to see the truth before his eyes...?
The logical conclusion is; he has bought into the notion that weather modification is good for us;

you have a very interesting definition of logic; what are the steps of reasoning that leads you inevitably to that conclusion?? I haven't seen any evidence beyond photos and innuendo.
They may well be poisoning us from the skies, but they sure do a great job of hiding any serious evidence. But if you just trust the evidence of your own eyes, I guess you can't be fooled.

[Barry]

What basic physics suddenly changed in 1997?

Nothing aside from some creative nutjobs making up the next conspiracy:



The above image included is included in our own Peggy Day's excellent article about the origins of "chemtrails".

[danejasper]

The logical conclusion is; he has bought into the notion that weather modification is good for us; and the Public is too dumb to handle it; therefore, we who notice it, are made to look like "conspiracy theorist".
...

Go fly a kite Dane; maybe you'll forget about the social engineering you signed up to do.

DAMN! You caught me!

Ever since joining the Cheminati I have feared that I would be found out! So, I'll let you in on the secret: the whole spraying thing is being done in order to prepare humans for the return of the Lizard People, who will return to rule the earth on the 22nd of December, 2012. Yes, you heard that right, 2012! They are working with Nessie (well, really it's Nessie's grand-grand-daughter), and the tribe of the Sasquatch (turns out, there are MANY of them; thousands - that's why one is spotted every now and then!)

But, I'm not supposed to be telling you this, so it's likely I will "mysteriously disappear" in the very, very, very near future. I am sure it will look like an "accident", but YOU will know the truth at last! Everything you have been told by medical doctors, scientists or just well intentioned adherents to logic is the complete opposite of the truth! They are all part of the vast conspiracy!!1!!!

[marv3lls]

I imagine this post as being written in comic sans. ;)

DAMN! You caught me!

Ever since joining the Cheminati I have feared that I would be found out! So, I'll let you in on the secret: the whole spraying thing is being done in order to prepare humans for the return of the Lizard People, who will return to rule the earth on the 22nd of December, 2012. Yes, you heard that right, 2012! They are working with Nessie (well, really it's Nessie's grand-grand-daughter), and the tribe of the Sasquatch (turns out, there are MANY of them; thousands - that's why one is spotted every now and then!)

But, I'm not supposed to be telling you this, so it's likely I will "mysteriously disappear" in the very, very, very near future. I am sure it will look like an "accident", but YOU will know the truth at last! Everything you have been told by medical doctors, scientists or just well intentioned adherents to logic is the complete opposite of the truth! They are all part of the vast conspiracy!!1!!!

[Iolchan]

A Challenge For All Chem-trail Deniers :

Seven Questions & Issues

[1] No reasonable, rational, and Scientific explanation has yet emerged from the Chem-trail Denial camp explaining how it is that line segment "clouds" are generated by jet planes laying tracks at low {warm air} altitudes, in the lower Troposphere, at the altitude of Cumulonimbus clouds.

[2] That the results of this spraying - chemtrail "haze" clouds - being a low altitude phenomenon, in the lower Troposphere - Are not & can not be authentic, natural, "classical" cirrus clouds, which, typically, manifest at 30,000 feet.

[3] Neither can they be classical "contrails" - i.e., ice crystals - in layers of cold air in the troposphere, or freezing air in the stratosphere; because, often, they are merely line-segments.

[4] How could adjacent patches of air in the paths of "persistent contrails" (at the very same altitudes,) vary so radically in temperature that - (assuming the jets are spewing out the same volume of "exhaust" continually) - in some swaths, faux clouds are manifested?

[5] Why is it that - Always - before and after these linear streaks of "chem-spew clouds" & in the same jet flight-paths, there remains no lasting residue of "cloud" at all? Did "classical contrails" ever manifest in such a weird manner?

[6] Why did Monsanto recently take out a patent for an aluminum-resistant GMO seed?

[7] How many times must a man look up, before he can see the sky?

Google Advanced Search: chemtrails, altitude, "2000 feet"

Google Advanced Search: chemtrails, altitude, "3000 feet"

Google Advanced Search: chemtrails, altitude, "4000 feet"

Google Advanced Search: chemtrails, altitude, "5000 feet"

Google Advanced Search: chemtrails, altitude, "6000 feet"

Google Advanced Search: aluminum, Monsanto, GMO, resistant , seed

[Iolchan]

...................................Feedback From Rosalind Peterson...................................

iolchan forwarded:

"Meanwhile, there are other ways of gathering evidence for chemtrail phenomenon, and it has been done. It is the evidence collected from documented soil and snow samples, showing dangerously toxic, concentrated levels of aluminum, barium and arsenic where planes leaving chemtrails are frequently observed.

Studies include Rosalind Petersons’ snow samples from Colorado and soil samples from northern California, the destruction of organic farming ventures on the Island of Hawaii, as documented by Michael Murphy and Edward Griffin in the film, “What In The World Are They Spraying?”

Signed, “ No-time for cheerleaders”

geomancer wrote:

So, some samples of soil and snow are reputed to show elevated concentrations of metals. Anecdotal statements like this are worthless in a court of law. I work as an environmental geologist so I deal with this topic all the time.

Questions: What were the sampling protocols? were sterile containers used? was there a chain of custody? laboratory accreditation? sample size? sample kept on ice after collection? analyzed within the accepted time limit for the EPA method(s) used? what EPA analytical methods were used? exactly when and where were the samples collected? The list goes on.

A huge issue here is the natural background concentrations of the various metals reputed to have been released. Without knowing this, the supposed evidence is worthless...

Yesterday I spoke, for the first time, with Rosalind Peterson on the telephone. I called her because her name has come up several times in the course of this thread – the last time being in the missive that Richard quoted & that I recently posted on behalf of an acquaintance, who wishes to remain anonymous. First, I sent Rosalind an e-mail copy of the recent post of Richard Ely, geomancer,{see above.}

Rosalind Peterson is intelligent, savvy, and very much grounded in the scientific method. She read the e-mail of Richard Ely’s post and commented to me, section by section. Immediately, she took issue with the quotations from my post, which she said was misinformed, in that she has never worked from soil samples that she herself has taken. She has only worked from Water Quality Data from the Drinking Water Program of the California State Department of Health. Reading further, the words of geomancer, Richard Ely himself, paragraph by paragraph, she approved of every single statement and every single point that he made. She concluded, at the end, that he was absolutely, 100% correct – legally, professionally, and scientifically.

Her own work with this material consumed over three hundred and fifty man-hours in graphing the California State Department of Health statistics pertaining to chemical contaminants in the water tables in the various districts in the state. Here are her findings as they pertain the water in Sonoma County: https://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/content/sonoma-county-ca-drinking-water-tests

Rosalind Peterson, like the Belfort Group who produced the Case Orange Study, prefers not use the word “chemtrails” – instead, she uses the term “Persistent Contrails” in order to distance herself – wisely – from what our dear self-consciously rationalist friends here at WaccoBB have called the “woo-woo”.

She sent me this information below, and refers the public to the California State Department of Health website and EDT Library and Water Quality Analyses Data and Download Page: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/drinkingwater/pages/EDTlibrary.aspx

For More Information Contact:

California Department of Public Health
Anthony Meeks
Drinking Water Program
PO Box 997377, MS-7416
Sacramento, CA 95899-7377
1616 Capitol Avenue, Suite 74.421
Sacramento, CA 95899-5052
Telephone: (916) 449-5568
Fax: (916) 440-5602

EDT Email Address: [email protected]
Personal Email Address: [email protected]

Drinking Water Quality Monitoring Schedule Notification documents list upcoming and Over Due required contaminant testing of drinking water of water systems in California. It can be viewed at the website: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/drin...onitoring.aspx


All drinking water quality analyses data are available to download at the EDT Library and Water Quality Analyses Data and Download Page at the website: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/drin...DTlibrary.aspx

Additional Information:


CALIFORNIA STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DRINKING WATER TEST RESULTS

The California State Department of Health, Drinking Water Division, Sacramento, California, has all of the water test data from every public drinking water source in the State of California, dating back to 1980s.

These tests are required by the EPA and the State of California, due to possible health effects, when various metals, herbicides, pesticides and other toxic contaminants are found in drinking water sources. The California EPA has complete listings of these chemicals, associated health effects, and drinking water standards for these water contaminants. The results of all drinking water tests are available free of charge online from the California State Department of Health.

1) A review of all water tests conducted in the State of California between 1984 and 2008, for every water test result over -0-, has been completed in the last year to find any unusual water contaminant readings which are over State of California standards and that could have negative consequences for human health.

2) The review demonstrated unusual spiking patterns, across California, for some toxic drinking water contaminants that that raise concerns about air borne and other pollution sources. This review raises serious questions about why the public has not been informed of these unusual spiking patterns by the California State Department of Health. This list includes, but is not limited to, the following contaminants:


Aluminum.......... Barium............. Iron.............. Manganese............. Magnesium

Sodium............. Boron ...............Arsenic..............Strontium............. Uranium

Strontium-90 ....... Antimony............ Beryllium............. Bromine............. Cadmium

Calcium .................. Copper............... Lead................ Nickel............... Silver

Thallium ............... Titanium .............. Vanadium............... Zinc.............. Sulfide

Sulfate



(The California Air Resources Board tested for most of these airborne contaminants between 1989 and 2002, and found significant increases or spiking in these many of these pollutants.)

Perchlorate, Sulfur Hexafluoride (SF6), Phosphorus, Lithium, Rubidium, Silicon, Silica, Tin, Tritium, Tungsten, and Yttrium are not currently being tested for in California Drinking Water Supplies and should be added to the list of chemicals tested by the State of California due to health effects associated with exposure.

Many of these same contaminants are showing up in California State Air Resources air testing results throughout many parts of California. Neonicotinoids and other insecticides should also be added to the list of water contaminants as they may be responsible for Honey Bee and other pollinator declines. (Note that carbon black and silver iodide should be also added to this list.)

A review of water temperatures, specific conductance, and pH should also be considered in any examination of these test results. (Please note that many contaminants were not reviewed due to the large database - all drinking water contaminants will be under review in the future.)

3) Many of the contaminants listed above that were found in drinking water tests spiked in the same years in different parts of the State. There may be an airborne link to these water contaminants which will need to be studied in the future.

(In an article in the Sunday, February 23, 2003, edition of the Sacramento Bee, written by Chris Bowman, it was noted that Tungsten, not normally tested for in public drinking water supplies, was found in Elk Grove, Sacramento, in drinking water supplies, and in tests conducted on trees rings in that area as well. Similar results were found in Fallon, Nevada and Sierra Vista, Arizona. Tree ring tests are showing increases in Tungsten.)

THE GRAPHED DATA ON THE ADC WEBSITE, WATER TEST RESULTS, ARE ALL FROM THE DATA SUPPLIED BY THE CALIFORNIA STATE DEPEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DRINKING WATER PROGRAM.


In the next several months special California Graphed Water Test Data and some Drinking Water Spreadsheets will be available on this site: https://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/


All drinking water tests are public record and are available upon request from any state in the United States and local water purveyors. Remember that your local water supplies may or may not test for these contaminants on a regular basis. The data one should request is not summary data but actual test results.

Water tests do not take into account the synergistic effects of multiple contaminants. In addition, water treatment facilities vary from county to county as well as state to state…thus, your water treatment facility may not be able to remove all contaminants in your drinking water.

(Note: If contaminants are found in your drinking water supplies then they may also showing up in rivers, ponds, streams, shallow wells, and the ocean. All of these areas, along with most irrigation water, cannot be treated for contamination problems. This means that these chemicals will show up in our soils, food supplies and also have negative impacts on wildlife and marine life.)

It is time to lobby the California Air Resources Board to test for all of these chemicals individually and to release their test data as individual results instead of just summary data. In addition, all particulates that are collected should be tested for type of particulates not just the size of the particulates. The public also needs to know how much aluminum coated fiberglass particulates (CHAFF), released by multiple military service branches, are being found in California particulate testing and how they impact human health in California. https://www.arb.ca.gov/homepage.htm

California Environmental Protection Agency: https://www.calepa.ca.gov/



Interested parties may see and hear Rosalind Peterson on Youtube - just go to YouTube.com, write in “Rosalind Peterson” and click. You may also visit her websites at: https://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/ =and= https://www.californiaskywatch.com

- Mark

[podfish]

I found this link here to an article of hers.

I must admit to being a bit put off by her company (I followed a link to her from Devvy Kidd, who seems a bit of a wacco; and a lot of sites that cite her are full of chupacabra warnings and the like) but she's actually quite measured in what she claims and how she talks about it.

What stands out to me are her warnings that these programs are under-regulated, not that they're covertly being spread. She makes a reference to a proposal to spread chemicals into hurricanes that she thinks may happen with insufficient study into the side-effects. I think she's well founded there: oil dispersants were dumped into the BP gulf spill with similar uncertainties.

[Peace Voyager]

Very good work Mark!

I have met with Rosalind several times; and concur with all your conclusions here.

Thank you,

Colleen Fernald

California's Constitutional Candidate
For PEACE & Thriving Watersheds For All!

www.campaignforpeace.org

...................................Feedback From Rosalind Peterson...................................

Yesterday I spoke, for the first time, with Rosalind Peterson on the telephone. I called her because her name has come up several times in the course of this thread – the last time being in the missive that Richard quoted & that I recently posted on behalf of an acquaintance, who wishes to remain anonymous. First, I sent Rosalind an e-mail copy of the recent post of Richard Ely, geomancer,{see above.}

Rosalind Peterson is intelligent, savvy, and very much grounded in the scientific method. She read the e-mail of Richard Ely’s post and commented to me, section by section. Immediately, she took issue with the quotations ...

[Peace Voyager]

See this for more comments:

Help me say goodbye to AT&T

I have many posts here; from long ago, to current; explaining how my research, and observations have guided my conclusions.

It's time for you to stop staring at your screen; go outside and begin your own sky watching if you really want to know the truth. This will show you what; but the truth as for why - may have more than one reason.

I know a handful of very intelligent weather modification deniers. This greatly concerns me; because I don't think this is a sign of their ignorance nor neglect; as they are involved in water quality. When they won't even allow the issue to come before them for public scrutiny, my alarms go off.

In 2006, weather modification became a national security issue ordered by congress. There are many answers we may never get because of the secrecy which comes with this designation.

I have noticed many times, when good folks get to play with the big leaguers; they tend to put their previous whistle-blowing skills away. This has happened with the "recycled" waste water issue as well. A so-called solution for municipalities and Wall Street-Wine's addiction to growth; at the expense of our watershed and ratepayers/taxpayers, and inheritable future.

It's hard enough to filter contaminates from our food and water; our air should be sacred. Just as with GMO crops; trying to out-engineer Nature, is a risk we do NOT need to take.

Wake up; you too are at risk.

Colleen Fernald

California's Constitutional Candidate
For PEACE & Thriving Watersheds For ALL!

www.campaignforpeace.org

you have a very interesting definition of logic; what are the steps of reasoning that leads you inevitably to that conclusion?? I haven't seen any evidence beyond photos and innuendo.
They may well be poisoning us from the skies, but they sure do a great job of hiding any serious evidence. But if you just trust the evidence of your own eyes, I guess you can't be fooled.

[Iolchan]

podfish wrote: I found this link here to an article of hers.I must admit to being a bit put off by her company (I followed a link to her from Devvy Kidd, who seems a bit of a wacco; and a lot of sites that cite her are full of chupacabra warnings and the like) but she's actually quite measured in what she claims and how she talks about it.What stands out to me are her warnings that these programs are under-regulated, not that they're covertly being spread. She makes a reference to a proposal to spread chemicals into hurricanes that she thinks may happen with insufficient study into the side-effects. I think she's well founded there: oil dispersants were dumped into the BP gulf spill with similar uncertainties.

Thank you for the gratitude, poddy. I almost gave you gratitude back - except I don't resonate with your feelings about Rosalind Peterson. Having spoken with her on the telephone, I have nothing but respect for the woman. She is a good soul - Sane, a wonderful quality in anyone - and a scientist, to boot. She is quite firm in her position, that "persistent contrails" are a new and very real phenomena; yet she also made it quite clear to me that there is a border between her position and the "conspiracy fringe" as she put it, of the "Chem-trail Choir." She says that so far, she has not seen the "smoking gun"; the proof, that one of the purposes of the damned things is to kill us off slowly.

I respect that. Perhaps - it may be said - she errs on the side of caution. We both agree that the dis-information artists are working both sides of the street to contain this issue : in the denial camp, and also in the wingy faction of the "chem-trail conspiracy" camp. Because Rosalind is a scientist her work is important, in that she is one more credible witness to the reality of the phenomenal category; "persistent contrails." She sent me the following links, of a talk she gave in 2009; which, she says, earned her a lot of flack from the chem-trail zealots, the ferocity of which was a real shock to her. O well... I have posted the first two pages of her speech. To see the rest of it, click on one of the links.

PERSISTENT JET CONTRAILS & MAN-MADE CLOUDS
CHANGE OUR CLIMATE
HARMING AGRICULTURE & OUR NATURAL RESOURCES



https://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalindA.htm

https://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind117.htm

By Rosalind Peterson July 12, 2009

It is sometimes difficult to separate out fact from fiction and beliefs. It is even more difficult when UnitedStates citizens live under a government which classifies as “secret” more and more information with eachpassing day. In addition, many government agencies, scientists, and researchers decide that certaininformation should not be given to the public because they know that the public would say “NO”, to many of their experiments or actions.

Thus, unraveling exactly why jet contrails began to abnormally persist and turn into white haze and man-made clouds, since the late 1980s, has been difficult…requiring hours of research into government documents, university studies, and following every lead to find answers to these questions. What we do know and can prove has broad implications for human health, agriculture crop production, the health of the earth’s pollinators, lack of photosynthesis (direct sunlight needed for all trees and plants to grow and produce crops),and climate change. The following is a brief history of persistent jet contrails and man-made clouds:

1) Jet engine produced contrails now may persist and turn into white haze and man-made clouds. Thischange began to be noticed across the United States, in the late 1980s, when reports began to bepublished regarding the unusual persistence of contrails, captured in pictures and videos that began toreflect their presence. Increasingly, as time passed, more and more reports and questions regardingthe number and type of jets leaving persistent jet contrails surfaced. (5)

2) Thousands of pictures and videos were placed on the Internet and in local newspapers, with questions about the different types of jets (many unmarked), leaving contrails, unusual cloud patterns, black contrails, brown clouds, the persistence of contrails for hours (one contrail can last for up to twenty hours or more and cover thousands of square miles - NASA), white reflective haze, and other types of unusual man-made cloud formations. (Discovery Channel Program 2007)

3) Reports and video tapes surfaced showing increased jet contrail activity just prior to rainfall predictionsby local weather reports in many areas. Jets were also videotaped circling various counties which wereout of normal commercial air traffic patterns as designated by the FAA.

4) Government officials, elected representatives, university scientists, government agencies, the United States Air Force, along with other branches of the military, the FAA, and other scientists were all contacted and the public was assured that all persistent contrails were “safe and normal”. The United States Air Force placed on its website the following statement:

A) Air Force Link - Environment.htm (1) “The "Chemtrail" Hoax: A hoax that has been around since1996, accuses the Air Force of being involved in spraying the US population with mysterioussubstances and shows various Air Force aircraft "releasing sprays" or generating unusual contrail patterns…The "Chemtrail" hoax has been investigated and refuted by many established and accredited universities, scientific organizations, and major media publications…” (The U.S.Air Force has never released or identified the following: Which universities or scientific organizations conducted the research, what major media publications published these reports, which scientists conducted research, investigations or produced any actual reports orpublications.)

B) The United States Air Force has been writing letters to constituents of California Senator Dianne Feinstein, repeating this U.S. Air Force “Chemtrail hoax” information for years, without providingany direct information about their investigations. Thus, the U.S. Air Force has perpetrated,along with other government agencies and our elected officials, the idea that persistent jetcontrails and man-made cloud sightings are either a “hoax” or part of an Internet conspiracy theory. Thus, they created and perpetuated the illusion that persistent jet contrails are “normal and safe”. In so doing, they obscured and prevented public notification and Congressional investigations into the detrimental effects of man-made clouds on climate and agriculture (See:NASA & IPCC Studies). (42)

5) NASA and NOAA, along with other government agencies, assured everyone that persistent jet contrailswere normal and had been in evidence since 1919, prior to the invention of jet engines. These andother agencies denied any knowledge other than repeating that “Chemtrails” were a “hoax” or part of an“Internet Conspiracy Theory”. NASA, however, has diligently continued its persistent jet contrail and man-made cloud research which has shown that persistent jet contrails are causing climate change and exacerbating global warming (NASA & IPCC Studies). (4)

6) With government officials, the media, and our elected officials, armed with the misinformation thatpersistent contrails were “normal and benign” in the environment, all efforts to find out why these unusual sightings were occurring were stopped dead in their tracks. The media (whether television ornewspapers), ignored thousands of complaints, allowing our once deep blue skies to be turned intomassive jet-produced contrail configurations, white haze, reflective white particles, various types of man-made clouds, and other unusual formations with varied weather events. And the media, followingthe lead of the U.S. Air Force, linked questions about these events to “believers in conspiracy theories”.(1)

While these government diversions were being promoted, our once clear, deep blue skies became a rarity in many areas of the United States after the late 1980s, especially in the last fifteen years. The media deflected questions and real issues into disinformation hit pieces against those who raised questions regarding these real events, thereby exacerbating, and allowing to continue, the detrimental effects that man-made clouds are alleged to be having on agriculture, trees, human health, and climate.

7) The public, who used the word “Chemtrail” and questioned the increase in persistent jet contrails andman-made clouds, was marginalized by the United States Air Force into “hoax believers”. No real investigations were ever initiated in the ensuing years. Elected officials afraid that they would beridiculed if they disagreed with the U.S. Air Force, or used classified information on this subject, refusedto take any action. All efforts to find out why jets leaving contrails, that persisted and turn into man-made clouds, failed. The public could only prove the actual location, times, configurations, and dates of these jet produced events as they were taking place in the skies across the United States. (1)

8) NASA (National Aeronautics & Space Administration - U.S. Department of Commerce), in the 1980s, invented another perfect foil to finding out what was taking place in our skies. They initiated an “S’Cool” school education program on contrails, with contrail “count-a-thon” contests, to educate teachers and school children from K-12th grades, that persistent jet contrails were benign and normal. What better way to deflect any investigations than by teaching a whole new generation of children that persistent jet contrails are “normal” and that it is okay to produce man-made clouds that harm our environment. It should be noted that the persistence of jet contrails and man-made clouds are recent historical events – linked to the invention of the jet engine and its widespread use in the United States and around the world. (4)

9) In 2001, Congressman Dennis Kucinich introduced the Space Preservation Act, which used the word “Chemtrail”. This term was never defined within the legislation and this bill was never passed by Congress due to objections from the U.S. Department of Defense. Why? (8-9) Now, almost twenty years after the first reports of jets leaving persistent jet contrails, our electedofficials are still “dodging and weaving” when the subject of the negative impacts, associated with persistent jetcontrails and man-made clouds on our environment, is brought to their attention. The media has refused to doany in-depth investigations into the synergistic impacts of persistent jet contrails on global warming and climatechange. No current congressional legislation, which claims to be addressing climate change and globalwarming, has been introduced which would address this major cause of climate change and global warming.

[janemaati]

This is part 5 of a (very good) 7 part video on "Transhumanism". Part 5 connects the dots between chemtrails, nanotech, Morgellon's syndrome, smart meters and EMF, and possibly what's percieved as "alien implants".

[Peace Voyager]

If you have been on the fence about
the existence of Chemtrails, this video
should settle the issue for you, once
and for all.

The first case involves three near head-on
collisions with a FedEx cargo jet, as the
pilot requests for permission to find an
altitude where he can evade them - only
to be faced with another near-miss.

Then, several other instances showing
massive gobs of dense material being
dumped from the wing ducts of KC-135
Tanker planes at commercial altitudes,
without the awareness of Air Traffic Control
are shown, including one hair-raising
daredevil stunt.

The obliviousness of ATC could have been
achieved if the military planes had shut off
their transponders. Also, it appears that the
Air Force planes were not detectable by radar.

Hands down, this is the best chemtrails footage
that I have ever seen!


Video (about 7 mins):

Chemtrail Pilots Cause Near Mid-Air Collisions

- Alexandra



P.S. Please share Forbidden Knowledge TV e-mails
and videos with your friends and colleagues.

That's how we grow. Thanks.


Alexandra Bruce
Publisher, ForbiddenKnowledgeTV.com
Daily Videos from the Edges of Science
Buy Books by Alexandra Bruce

[Peace Voyager]

Chemtrails That Don't Exist Cost 5 Billion a Year To Produce

www.youtube.com/watch?v=t49zssrHy6A&feature=youtu.be

Published on Sep 6, 2012
The cost of a massive program to spray sun-dimming particles into the upper atmosphere in the name of halting global warming, a process some contend is already underway via chemtrails, has been put at just below $5 billion dollars a year.

U.S. scientists writing in the journal Environmental Research Letters concluded that "Planes or airships could carry sun-dimming materials high into the atmosphere for an affordable price tag of below $5 billion a year as a way to slow climate change," reports Reuters, a process characterized as "both feasible and affordable."

The cost of using specially adapted aircraft able to operate at high altitudes as a delivery system to disperse sulphur particles was put at $1 to $2 billion a year. Using "giant guns or rockets" would be more expensive.

Co-author Professor Jay Apt of Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh told Reuters that injecting the atmosphere with sulphur but then suddenly removing it from the eco-system could cause temperatures to jump, indicating that the program would have to be ongoing in perpetuity.

The study completely failed to analyze whether such a massive geoengineering program would be a good idea and what environmental consequences it would have.
https://www.infowars.com/cost-of-che...illion-a-year/

[podfish]

Chemtrails That Don't Exist Cost 5 Billion a Year To Produce
...
The study completely failed to analyze whether such a massive geoengineering program would be a good idea and what environmental consequences it would have.

it's this kind of unnecessary addition that calls the credibility of the whole post into question. It's not hard to believe that the priorities of those who would engage in climate engineering are very far from those who are more interested in preserving a more "natural" balance of nature. However, it's ridiculous to imply that it never occurred to those involved that there may be environmental consequences that they didn't intend. Do you think they just have random ideas, and don't distinguish between "bad" and "good" but pick at random??

This is a real issue that's not being very well tracked, but it's a sideshow to the main problem: our political and economic systems are hopelessly inadequate when it comes to addressing long-term problems, whether it's an asteroid about to smash the earth (let's hope one's not coming soon, 'cause we won't be able to get our act together in time to deal with it), or our generation of pollution that causes not only global warming but a host of other health effects, or the continuing development of technologies that limit the need for human workers in the economy. These are big and slippery problems that call out for visionary leaders to provide solutions. Sadly that's not how the world works- solutions actually emerge from below, and leaders have only limited ability to influence events. So dramatic things happen evolutionarily and organically, not according to plan - and that means they happen without the level of control one might want.

This whole "chemtrail" nonsense is just noise; it's bundling several unrelated events and treating them as if they're part of one whole and integrated conspiracy. I'm sure there are some geo-engineering experiments going on, though if you look into it more widely you'll find that there are as many (well, maybe not "as many", the cranks put out a lot of verbiage) reports of people having regulatory problems with their programs as there are reports of secret experiments detected by amateur observers. The military has run secret experiments before as well. It's the blithe assumption that these are widespread, well coordinated, and done for an overarching but inscrutable nefarious purpose that is hardest to swallow.

[kpage9]

Podfish, have YOU ever considered running for office? Please?

it's this kind of unnecessary addition that calls the credibility of the whole post into question. It's not hard to believe that the priorities of those who would engage in climate engineering are very far from those who are more interested in preserving a more "natural" balance of nature. However, it's ridiculous to imply that it never occurred to those involved that there may be environmental consequences that they didn't intend. Do you think they just have random ideas, and don't distinguish between "bad" and "good" but pick at random??

This is a real issue that's not being very well tracked, but it's a sideshow to the main problem: our political and economic systems are hopelessly inadequate when it comes to addressing long-term problems, whether it's an asteroid about to smash the earth (let's hope one's not coming soon, 'cause we won't be able to get our act together in time to deal with it), or our generation of pollution that causes not only global warming but a host of other health effects, or the continuing development of technologies that limit the need for human workers in the economy. These are big and slippery problems that call out for visionary leaders to provide solutions. Sadly that's not how the world works- solutions actually emerge from below, and leaders have only limited ability to influence events. So dramatic things happen evolutionarily and organically, not according to plan - and that means they happen without the level of control one might want.

This whole "chemtrail" nonsense is just noise; it's bundling several unrelated events and treating them as if they're part of one whole and integrated conspiracy. I'm sure there are some geo-engineering experiments going on, though if you look into it more widely you'll find that there are as many (well, maybe not "as many", the cranks put out a lot of verbiage) reports of people having regulatory problems with their programs as there are reports of secret experiments detected by amateur observers. The military has run secret experiments before as well. It's the blithe assumption that these are widespread, well coordinated, and done for an overarching but inscrutable nefarious purpose that is hardest to swallow.

[ubaru]

It's the blithe assumption that these are widespread, well coordinated, and done for an overarching but inscrutable nefarious purpose that is hardest to swallow.

Yeah, I know it can be hard to swallow, but take the red pill and push play. Since this thread started the documentary, Why In the World Are They Spraying? came out. To sell more GMO seeds, that's why. To create extreme weather 5 days from now in the mid-west farming areas and create dependency on GMO seeds that can tolerate drought or flood. We get sprayed a lot on the W. coast as this seems to be a point of major influence of the jet stream.

Some of you may want to see it's predecessor What In the World Are They Spraying?

I really hope you all take the time to watch one or both of these so we can get a groundswell of informed people who then can take action to end this parasitism.

[Alastair]

They're vapor trails! Water! You are paranoid and delusional. It's water! Look it up.

How many of you are aware that our skies look utterly changed? That they are now filled with "clouds" that are linear, streaked, feathered and FAKE? There is plenty of disinfo out there, plenty of debunkers, plenty of naysayers -- but anyone who is actually observing can easily see that our sky has been altered. And it's not just here, it's national, and it's global -- except in some countries where NATO has not inserted itself. I am very interested in getting together with other people in our community who are concerned about the effects of the aerosols in our sky, and how they are heating our atmosphere, contributing to our drought, harming our wild life, changing ourselves...... I also am capable of giving an introductory evening on this topic if there is interest out there. Just putting my toe in the water here.

I work closely with scientist and researcher Clifford Carnicom, the leading researcher on this topic, at Carnicom Institute. No, this ain't just water vapor.

Thanks so much, Kate Willens

[Paul Harris]

You're not paranoid- it's really the epitome of out-of-control secret government and outright treason in the form of treaties and secret agreements outside of the laws of our Republic. Groups like the Tri-lateral commission and Council on Foreign Relations serve powers that have no care over the plight of America/ the united States.
As a (twice) decorated veteran of the USAF, I know the only way your going to get the top brass to go along with a program like project CLOVERLEAF aka Chemtrails is to lie- and make them believe they're saving the world from runaway global warming (complete BS). They now have in place a system to not only lower the life expectancy of the average human, but drastically reduce the fecundity rate in said population.
Plus, they get to play with their weather modification weapons such as HAARP and other NATO arrays and push around weather systems laced with ingredients that are reactive to EMF pulsing.
It's a win-win for them, and a lose-lose for We the People.
Furthermore, their past experiments on the population of this country have only been detrimental, and with only compartmentalized oversight from a small group of scientists there's no way they're going to understand all the variables.
The only way out of this is for insiders to be enlightened as to the true nature of the beast they serve and to come out en masse.
If they knew of all the children (including their own) playing under these aerosols, and all the elderly people fighting off constant illness brought about by these heavy metals maybe they could realize the only path to righteousness and Truth- which is to fight against deceit, untruth, greed, falseness.... the oldest fight.
You define who you are in this reality- and that definition lasts for eternity.
Such a short life- do they really want their existence to have been one tied to death and lies, harming the other entities manifesting in this realm? They better hope there is no God or judgement coming.
Even the Egyptians understood what a heavy/guilty heart led to in the afterlife-

The heart was fed to Maat- a dog-headed creature- and the soul was cast into NOTHINGNESS while the righteous went on through to the Duat and remanifested as a star in heaven...

Maat....here boy....(whistle whistle whistle)... Ive got some treats for you.......some souls not worthy of continued existence as they harmed the body of God instead of being beneficial creative loving energy.....

GOOD LUCK BROTHERS AND SISTERS. TAKE CARE OF EACHOTHER

Paul

[podfish]

https://www.biocode.info/wp/?page_id=13

https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

https://carnicominstitute.org/

oh good, this one's back. Link trading time again??
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/deb...l-physics.654/

and an excerpt from a post about GeoEngineering watch. (I've got too little patience for youtube)
=
Published on Jul 3, 2012
Geoengineering Watch is simply disinformation. They actively censor comments on their site which expose their bunk.

I noticed this article at the top of their main HAARP page:
https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/?p...

I thought I'd note it because it shows how sloppy and obviously bogus their brand of disinformation is, and to shed some light on Geoengineering Watch's lack of integrity. That article was first published on Pakalert Press by the way - however GW doesn't credit the original author:
https://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/05/...


I just wanted to highlight a couple of glaring instances of bunk. The first is an error in the HAARP acronym. HAARP is the High frequency Active Auroral Research Program, NOT the High Altitude Atmosphere Research Program as the article states. GW: If you're going to make up stories about HAARP at least get the acronym right. In addition, the article tries to make it sound like HAARP is the technical term for any ionospheric heater and that all IH's are part of some "HAARP network" when in fact it's simply the name of a specific research program associated with a specific phased array ionospheric heater located in Gakona, Alaska. It's really just another pathetic attempt to turn the name HAARP into some ominous catchphrase of conspiracy and doom.

The other instance of bunk is an attempt to pass off an image of the Vela Pulsar taken by the Chandra X-ray telescope as HAARP with a caption that states:
Incredible energy: HAARP high altitude energy burst

The caption should have been:

Chandra image of compact nebula around Vela pulsar. The image shows a dramatic bow-like structure at the leading edge of the cloud, or nebula, embedded in the Vela supernova remnant. This bow and the smaller one inside it, are thought to be the near edges of tilted rings of X-ray emission from high-energy particles produced by the central neutron star.

The next article is not simply bunk, it's a pack of lies. As is the distrail image that GW claims is a high energy vortex splitting the sky...

It seems GW are just repeating nonsense and BUNK from elsewhere.

There are many more GLARING hoaxes on Geoengineering Watch which I may post if I can be bothered...

Enjoy the video Dutchsinse! (another hoaxer)

========================================*=====

Note:

Fair Use allows you to make use of a pre-existing artistic work for purposes of education, training, news reporting, scientific research, critique or commentary, or parody. Material used here is used under "fair use", as non-profit, educational, and critical usage.

========================================*==

metabunk.org chemtrail discussions:

https://metabunk.org/forums/9-Contrail...

[jbox]

Hi Paul; thank you so much for writing. It lends validity to my post, validity that is sorely needed to convince people that something extraordinary and serious is truly going on. ...

Sorry Kate, but this particular dead horse has been beaten to nothingness on WACCO. I guess you are a newbie round these parts. Contrails, or condensation trails, because that's what they are, are a naturally occurring phenomenon when jets or propellor driven planes pass overhead at certain altitudes and under certain conditions. It's just that simple. Chemtrails are nothing more than a conspiracy theory with nothing to back it up but tinfoil hatted pseudo scientists and nutty conspiracy theorists.

Come on, do you really think a vast conspiracy backed and funded by the federal government, spanning decades, with several presidents of both parties on board and directing the spraying, has conspired to systematically poison the unwitting American public? And why, exactly? This notion is so ridiculous as to not warrant serious attention. So, find another dead horse to flog. This one has left this building.

[Alastair]

Thank you! However, I don't think you will change anyone's mind. These people who believe this nonsense are nothing more than "chicken littles."

Sorry Kate, but this particular dead horse has been beaten to nothingness on WACCO. I guess you are a newbie round these parts. Contrails, or condensation trails, because that's what they are, are a naturally occurring phenomenon ...So, find another dead horse to flog. This one has left this building.