Expanding Water Fluoridation in Sonoma County

[lilypads]

Believe it or not our "public health officer" has made the same comparison!

what a crock, comparing water to fluorine and its compounds is a blazing straw pile. the only real poisonings of people by water that i am aware of was the advice for marathon runners to constantly drink. just because we are not fish does not make it toxic. you confuse the issue for your own amusement:(

[podfish]

you confuse the issue for your own amusement:(

you mean :-)


the invocation of chemical names in a way to raise fear is a common technique that muddies this argument tremendously. People are being asked to look at a list of claims about flouride's chemical properties and compounds and extrapolate to what it means if it's used in a municipal water supply. The DHMO site is an accurate description of its chemistry. When people recognize a familiar substance (or, equally, a familiar situation) they tend to discount evidence of its danger whether it's good evidence or not. For example, people don't really accept the danger of texting while driving, at least not in a way that changes behavior. Many ARE scared of airplanes. If it's scary sounding and unfamiliar, they almost anticipate it's dangerous regardless of the quality of evidence. This Mike Adams video exploits that heavily. So no, it's not just for amusement - it's an illustration of the weakness of typical arguments being made.

[Glia]

The "scary chemicals" approach is used by some like this Mike Adams guy -- very unfortunately because it harms credibility -- but it is hardly a "typical" argument.

you mean :-)
This Mike Adams video exploits that heavily. So no, it's not just for amusement - it's an illustration of the weakness of typical arguments being made.

[rossmen]

i agree that responding to bs with bs is fair. and amusing. rank is also an issue. in the straw flurrie of fluorine claims big health orgs and county health officers rule. how willing are you to play follow the leader to a mistake? conspiracy's are sometimes true and this ones got legs. trash water with bs if you want, i am a defender.

you mean :-)


the invocation of chemical names in a way to raise fear is a common technique that muddies this argument tremendously. People are being asked to look at a list of claims about flouride's chemical properties and compounds and extrapolate to what it means if it's used in a municipal water supply. The DHMO site is an accurate description of its chemistry. When people recognize a familiar substance (or, equally, a familiar situation) they tend to discount evidence of its danger whether it's good evidence or not. For example, people don't really accept the danger of texting while driving, at least not in a way that changes behavior. Many ARE scared of airplanes. If it's scary sounding and unfamiliar, they almost anticipate it's dangerous regardless of the quality of evidence. This Mike Adams video exploits that heavily. So no, it's not just for amusement - it's an illustration of the weakness of typical arguments being made.

[dzerach]

During the recent Sonoma County BoS meeting on Sept 24th, Supervisor Zane voiced the following concerns about the impact of water pollution on fish:

She advised that she attended the Sonoma County Waste Management Board of Directors meeting because she is trying to move the plastic bag ordinance ahead. She said that, next to cigarette butts, plastic bags are the second highest polluter of our waterways. And continued: "They really do kill a lot of our fish and our birds as well....So we really need to get rid of these (plastic bags)." However, she wants to force-fluoridate the drinking water. Her concern for water quality was shared with the public at 23.00 minutes in (Sept 24th BoS public video).

More bizarre contradictions:

At the beginning of the meeting, Supervisor Carrillo, who would also like to force-fluoridate -- (for unknown reasons) -- reported that he had participated in a Water Bond Coalition conference call...(https://www.waterbondcoalition.com/).

And announced a hearing scheduled for the Natural Resources Water and Environmental Quality Committee...

And announced that he will participate in the Department of Fish and Wildlife Fishery Restoration grant program.

[Barry]

In case you missed the article in the PD (like I did), Dr. Lynn Silver Chalfin reassigned a couple of weeks ago and has now left the post.

Anybody know the scuttlebutt about replacing her?

[Glia]

Hmmm.... this is a great opportunity to abolish the county Public Health Officer position. It would save us all a lot of trouble and expense. Do we really need to spend $200K+ per year to pay someone to prop up the allopathic for-profit medical-industrial complex and try to poison our water and environment?

In case you missed the article in the PD (like I did), Dr. Lynn Silver Chalfin reassigned a couple of weeks ago and has now left the post.

Anybody know the scuttlebutt about replacing her?

[Mudwoman]

In case you missed the article in the PD (like I did), Dr. Lynn Silver Chalfin reassigned a couple of weeks ago and has now left the post.

Anybody know the scuttlebutt about replacing her?

Don't yet. But was relieved at news of her resignation.

Were you aware the Cotati City Council unanimously (!!) REJECTED water fluoridation on November 12th, 2013? https://www.ci.cotati.ca.us/headline...uncementID=353

Interestingly, this was first reported in the Community Voice and also reported by the Sonoma County Gazette, but NOT reported by the Press Democrat (as far as I know). Curious the PD doesn't consider this 'major' decision newsworthy.
https://www.sonomacountygazette.com/...icle-2083.html

[rossmen]

the pd did report it 11/22. quoted her as stating absolutely not about fluoridation resistance. no explanation as for why she is resigning after 1 1/2 years at 200k+/yr. goodbye to a jobhopping public health pro. hope this failure to understand an informed citizenry becomes a permanent part of your professional record...

Don't yet. But was relieved at news of her resignation.

Were you aware the Cotati City Council unanimously (!!) REJECTED water fluoridation on November 12th, 2013? https://www.ci.cotati.ca.us/headline...uncementID=353

Interestingly, this was first reported in the Community Voice and also reported by the Sonoma County Gazette, but NOT reported by the Press Democrat (as far as I know). Curious the PD doesn't consider this 'major' decision newsworthy.
https://www.sonomacountygazette.com/...icle-2083.html

[rikwiz]

After watching this fluoride drama unfold for years now it seems to me that Carrillo and this Lynn Chafin character are in their positions because of the fluoride industry. Carrillo, if he was just a regular Joe would have folded up his deck chair and left office while he still had a semblance of community respect. With that all but gone he continues to show up and sit there like an autobot doing business that is none of his.

I sincerely believe he is in that position as a paid industry insider to push the water poisoning into our area. As you can see once Lynn's bombastic moves to poison the area were refuted, she basically failed at her core mission so there was no reason for her to continue and so , perhaps the next one up will be even nicer and softer and sneakier at pushing this agenda.

SO proud of Cotati for their knowledgeable stand on this issue. We must maintain public pressure on this hollow man and who ever replaces Lynn to be sure these county succubus cannot poison us our children and our waterways.

[Mudwoman]

the pd did report it 11/22. quoted her as stating absolutely not about fluoridation resistance. no explanation as for why she is resigning after 1 1/2 years at 200k+/yr. goodbye to a jobhopping public health pro. hope this failure to understand an informed citizenry becomes a permanent part of your professional record...

"Curious the PD doesn't consider this 'major' decision newsworthy. " Was referring to the Cotati City Council decision, not Silver-Chalfin's resignation. Who's going to be hired next? Am concerned about that. Also, concerned about Carrillo and Zane's positions on this crucial issue.

[rikwiz]

The PD article did, in fact, report on the controversy at Chaflin's departure at the end of the article here.."In discussions of the plan, Silver Chalfin did not provide “valid evidence as to its value,” Adelman said.The supervisors were scheduled to resume consideration of the fluoridation proposal in March, but Zane said that might be pushed back due to Silver Chalfin's departure.
“It's a big issue we will want to pass on to the new health officer,” Zane said."

[Glia]

all the more reason to get rid of the Public "Health" Officer position -- as well as both Shirlee Vane and Captain Underpants.

... “It's a big issue we will want to pass on to the new health officer,” Zane said."

[markfassett]

9 Shocking Dangers of Fluoride Exposure

https://www.wakingtimes.com/2014/02/...ride-exposure/

February 5, 2014 | By WakingTimes

Dr. Edward F. Group, Guest

Exposure to fluoride is a contentious topic, mostly because exposure is everywhere. Not only is fluoride a common ingredient in toothpaste, many municipalities have a fluoridated water supply. Why? Well, the reason we’re given is that it encourages oral health… even though it’s not known to prevent harmful oral bacteria. ^[1] What is known is that fluoride is toxic. In fact, the number one reason for poison control calls concerning fluoride are for children who’ve eaten toothpaste. ^{[2] [3]} Long-term ingestion is harmful to the brain, digestive system, heart, bones… even the tooth enamel it’s supposed to help. ^{[4] [5] [6]} These next 9 shocking facts will make you take a second look at your exposure to fluoride.
1. Weakens Skeletal Health

Skeletal fluorosis is a condition resulting from fluoride consumption. The liver is unable to process fluoride, thus it passes into the bloodstream where it combines with calcium that’s been leeched from the skeletal system. You’re left with weak bones, otherwise known as skeletal fluorosis. The risk has been known about for decades yet it’s not been established how much exposure will trigger skeletal fluorosis… and the impact it has on quality of life is horrendous. ^{[7] [8] [9]} The best way to protect yourself is to avoid fluoride. Recently, Chinese authorities established a link between reductions in fluoride exposure and the incidence of fluorosis. ^[10]
2. Causes Arthritis

Fluoride has been shown to cause calcification of cartilage, the essential tissue for joint health. ^[11] Degenerative osteoarthritis has been linked to skeletal fluorosis. ^[12] And in a study of individuals suffering from fluorosis, osteoarthritis knee conditions occurred frequently. ^[13]
3. Toxic to the Thyroid

Iodine and fluoride belong to a family of compounds known as halogens. Although iodine is beneficial to the thyroid, fluoride is not. However, because of the similarities, the thyroid can absorb fluoride instead of iodine. This is bad. Fluoride is toxic to thyroid cells; it inhibits function and causes cell death. ^[14] For decades, fluoride was used to reduce thyroid function in individuals suffering from an overactive thyroid. ^[15] Now — and pay attention to this — the range used in water fluoridation matches the levels typically used to reduce thyroid function. ^[16]
4. Calcifies the Ultra-Important Pineal Gland

Although the full capabilities of the pineal gland have been the subject of debate for centuries, it’s known for certain that, at a minimum, the pineal gland regulates body rhythms and wake-sleep cycles; two extremely important functions. Fluoride is especially toxic to the pineal gland, where it accumulates and calcifies the gland. In fact, by the time the average person reaches old age, their pineal gland will have higher calcium density than their bones. ^[17]

5. Accelerates Female Puberty

It also deserves mention that the pineal gland plays an integral role in the onset of puberty. Research has shown that girls living in areas prone to more fluoride exposure experience puberty earlier than girls exposed to less. ^[18] Fluoride’s damaging effect onsexual function only begins here…
6. Harmful to Male and Female Fertility

A direct link exists between fertility rates and fluoridated drinking water. Higher levels of fluoride correspond to lower fertility rates, particularly with drinking water levels of 3 ppm.^[19] Animal models show that fluoride reduces reproductive hormones in females. ^[20] Men have it just as bad; those suffering from fluorosis have lower testosterone and fertility than men with limited fluoride exposure. ^[21]
7. Bad for Kidney Health

Fluoride is toxic to the kidneys and a higher rate of chronic kidney disease has been reported in areas where the water contains high levels of fluoride.^{[22] [23]} According to Chinese researchers, a fluoride level of 2 mg/L is all it takes to cause renal damage in children. ^[24] While water fluoridation levels are often much lower than this, the fluoride bombardment continues with toothpaste and other sources.
8. Harmful to the Cardiovascular System

Research suggests that exposure to fluoride causes cardiovascular inflammation and atherosclerosis. ^{[25] [26]} Other research has examined its effect on blood pressure but had mixed results. Regardless, despite that cardiovascular disease can have many causes, the evidence, and history show its incidence increases with exposure to fluoride.
9. Negative Cognitive Effects

The Fluoride Action Network reports that, as of May 2013, 43 studies have examined the effect of fluoride on human intelligence. The results should motivate anyone to minimize their fluoride exposure. One observation is that fluoride negatively impacts children’s neural development. ^[27] Another is that children living in highly fluoridated areas have up to five times greater chance of developing a low IQ compared to those who do not. ^[28]
Reducing Your Exposure to Fluoride

Using non-fluoride toothpaste can immediately reduce your fluoride exposure. Maintaining healthy iodine levels can help protect the thyroid from fluoride. Fluoridated water is the largest concern and most water filters are not adequate for removing fluoride; instead look to a reverse osmosis water purification systems.
Have you made efforts to reduce your exposure and minimize the dangers of fluoride? What tips do you have? Please leave a comment below and share with us.
-Dr. Edward F. Group III, DC, ND, DACBN, DCBCN, DABFM

References:
(see original article here)

[andrew espinoza]

not sure if this has been sited before...its a study identifying carcenogenic properties of tobacco.the findings point to radiactive fertilizer...leading to where does that type of radiactive molecule come from...it is found in flouridated water from ....."Rather the fluoride that is typically used to fluoridate local water supplies is a frequently contaminated chemical byproduct created during the phosphate fertilizer manufacturing process. It's a concentrated, highly toxic chemical riddled with hazardous impurities, making it extremely expensive to safely dispose of when not sold for profit as a water additive"
and the study goes onto say this...
"But let's get back to phosphate fertilizers and its use on tobacco and food crops... According to the report in Nicotine and Tobacco Research,11radioactivity in tobacco comes from two sources: the atmosphere and uptake through soil rich in calcium phosphate fertilizer contaminated with polonium phosphates. In 1995, the Florida Institute of Phosphate Research12 stated that:"
and yet here is what the EPA said our defenders of a clean environment about this same substance...
In regard to the use of fluosilicic (fluorosilicic) acid as a source of fluoride for fluoridation, this agency regards such use as an idealenvironmental solution to a long-standing problem. By recovering by-product fluosilicic acid from fertilizer manufacturing, water and air pollution are minimized, and water utilities have a low-cost source of fluoride available to them."....


ref..https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/02/10/radioactive-fertilizer.aspx

[podfish]

not sure if this has been sited before...its a study identifying carcenogenic properties of tobacco.the findings point to radiactive fertilizer..

ref..https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/02/10/radioactive-fertilizer.aspx

I'd prefer better refs -- for a contrasting opinion on the merits of this site:
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4283

not that I'd rely on someone as opinionated as skeptoid as authoritative either. But remember, the kid was able to point out that the emperor had no clothes even if she herself wasn't qualified to run the country.
and yeah, I remember that, at the end of that story, the parade was still going on...

[andrew espinoza]

Ok. I went to your link, interesting...yet there problem with Mercola was not based on his write ups on scientific papers (peer review, widely accepted in authentic science circles), they were specifically talking about his sales and natural health supplements....so back to what you are saying.....Did you even look at the write up, prob not. and if you don't like him or his website, that's cool...yet his write up, that I posted link to has an authoritive list(ref's) of scientific papers...so maybe you haven't looked deep enough...go to those links he sites and you will see atomic industry papers, medicine papers, and other science based info...
cheers

I'd prefer better refs -- for a contrasting opinion on the merits of this site:
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4283

not that I'd rely on someone as opinionated as skeptoid as authoritative either. But remember, the kid was able to point out that the emperor had no clothes even if she herself wasn't qualified to run the country.
and yeah, I remember that, at the end of that story, the parade was still going on...