Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

[arthunter]

Good points, Henry ... but I don't think that it is the "knowing" that has kept Snowden safe ... he's a smart man and he's made it clear that very damaging information will be released if he is harmed in any way ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/2013...96C08Q20130713

As this thread has been hijacked by the..

[Claire]

Okay folks. this thread has been officially hijacked, and in a damn silly fashion.
Henry

Good grief. Everyone here has been talking about possibilities. With this many posts one expects to eventually cover all the aspects. That's what makes it interesting, informative and just maybe, mind-opening.
Many people on this forum get their info from alternative sources, not the mainstream media, not Murdoch nor the Koch brothers.
If this thread has been hijacked it was by you, I think, who turned it into a carnival.

[Rustie]

Excuse me Henry, could you please site your source for this information? I have not been able to find a quote from Efren stating that he and the prowler are the same. Thank you.

He's already acknowledged to the police that the "prowler" and he are the same.

[sebastacat]

He wanted to have a couple beers with her....Is that so?

I read in one of the P.D. articles that the police never found
any beers.

V-e-d-d-y interesting...

[occihoff]

I tried to post this information on wacco Friday before my email-free weekend, but I see that somehow it didn't show up.

As I was out walking a van pulled over and a well-known community member thanked me for my balanced post re the Carrillo flap. He said he was appalled at the viciousness of some of the other posts. He said that he was an old friend of Efren's, and was the man who had driven him to the alcohol treatment facility. Efren was definitely drunk, he said, and he shared my puzzlement as to why the police had failed to test Efren's blood alcohol level. This man also told me that there was a history of heavy alcohol use among certain members of Efren's family. His family, of course, was emotionally devastated by this event, and it's not difficult to imagine how Efren himself feels.

Alcoholism is hell, and I sympathize with Efren and his family. But I must say that what disturbs me more than this crazy drunken misadventure is the notorious attack piece his election campaign mailed out, the one showing pictures of pigs wallowing in the mire, and--ironically--accusing his opponent of dirty tactics. I called his campaign office answering machine about this, and to his credit he called me back. I was hoping he'd agree that the pig piece was scurrilous, and that he was going to retract it and apologize. But instead he waffled and said the pig stuff was only metaphorical, etc. I replied that it made him look like the pig, not his opponent. He seemed to sort of take my point, but the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

This, combined with the former punching incident (also at a bar!) and the recent drunken nocturnal escapade definitely reveal serious, tragic emotional and character problems. Efren is a brilliant and talented guy, with friends and family who see many good qualities in him. I can't forget the Efren who appeared at a fair at Ives Park, sitting in a booth in which he would be doused with water when people threw a ball that hit a lever. I only hope that his current awful predicament serves as a spiritual wake-up call that leads him to turn his life around!

[sebastacat]

occihoff:

Thank you for your recent post. And thank you for bringing up the "pig poster incident."

I, too, felt that using that picture in a political campaign was the epitome of "dirty" politics and
showed extremely poor judgment on Efren's part.

I am not alone in my thinking. Several other west county residents expressed similar feelings to me.

I sent one of the mailers back to Efren and told him to stop sending them, as I found them very offensive.

Guess what? He ignored my request, and his campaign sent me another one!

Needless to say, Sebastacat found NO humor in such a tasteless antic -- and was understandably "appalled" by E.C.'s contempt for what I felt was a very reasonable request.

It's about time that Efren and his handlers/enablers stop blaming other things for his problems.
Someone needs to remind him of that classic line by our former president, Harry S. Truman:
"The buck stops here."

I also found it particularly offensive that Efren told us that he looked forward to telling his side of the story of the shameful San Diego incident. But, as well all know, except for a terse statement, which was rife with inconsistencies, that day never came.

I think that for the good of the county, the good of the office and the good of himself, Efren should seriously consider resigning from his position. Then and only then will he be able to devote the amount of time that it is going to take to address his demons and to get his life back on track.

In the meantime, the fifth district is being left without representation at a crucial time in our county's history, and that, my fellow fifth-district friends, is something that we simply cannot afford.

[patnicholson]

Who's minding the store while efren's away?

[sebastacat]

Good question, Pat.

Anyone out in Wacco Land have any answers?

As fifth district tax-paying constituents, we're all just dying to know.....

[Damien]

Black helicopters have been hovering over West Third St.

[scamperwillow]

His aide Susan.

Who's minding the store while efren's away?

[Barry]

Thanks for all your comments about this bizarre episode.

I have combined the two threads on this topic.

As this has been a very active thread, for those of you who have already posted, please limit your remarks to a viewpoint that has not been posted yet.

If you haven't posted your thoughts yet, I encourage you to do so. I also encourage everybody to vote in the poll at the top of this thread on the website. Note that the poll discloses which users voted for each option.

If you have posted to this thread and would like to stop the email updates for each new reply to this thread, simply click the button on the bottom of any email from this thread, including this one.

When considering whether Efren should resign or not, please try to keep this incident separate from your opinion regarding is performance as supervisor up until this point and whether or not you agree with his policies.

In particular, I'd be interested in hearing from those of you who supported Efren until this incident and now think he should resign, or those of you (if any) who did not support Efren before this, but now think he should resign.

As for my thoughts…

I actually fall into the first category, supporting Efren, but I think he should resign.

I've been a luke-warm supporter of Efren's work. I was particularly pleased that he was a significant player in arranging a deal to preserve Preservation Ranch (a development that many suspected he would support) plus his strong support of Sonoma Clean Power. I was particularly disturbed by his vote in support of the Dutra plant in Petaluma along with his weak defense of his vote.

Up until this point he has shown himself as a hard worker and a reputable representative of the 5th district. Remember that besides us left-wing-Wackos, there are many Latinos, business owners, mainstream folks, and I've even heard rumors of a few Republicans (gasp!) in the district. He needs to represent all of us. And no doubt he has his "backers" in the shadows that he must please, as nearly all politicians must, until we get the money out of politics.

But with this "embarrassing" incident, he has lost my support and furthermore I think it is inappropriate for him to continue to represent us. While I have compassion for him (including diving into such a big and public job at a young age) that is separate from his responsibilities as our representative.

I also have compassion for the woman involved, along with Efren's many supporters that have been let down, most notably his loyal aid, Susan Upchurch.

As other's have pointed out, just blaming this on alcohol is not sufficient. There's some deep personal issues here that will need healing and I think that is best done while not attempting to represent our district. Both for our sake and for Efren's.

Efren will no doubt be completely consumed by his upcoming legal case. His arraignment is now set for Aug 30th. If there's a trial after that, there will be more weeks/months that he will need to focus on that. And all that time he will be on paid leave.

There have been many politicians who have resigned for far less incriminating actions, and some who haven't (there's quite a selection of examples these days!).

I hope Efren will have the decency to take the high road and resign soon. May he then take time to heal from this trauma and its causes, and let the district again have reputable representation. I would not object if he chooses to run again in 2016 for Supervisor or another office and let the voters decide if he is fit for office.

Barry

[Barry]

Efren will no doubt be completely consumed by his upcoming legal case. His arraignment is now set for Aug 30th. If there's a trial after that, there will be more weeks/months that he will need to focus on that. And all that time he will be on paid leave.

Henry just informed me that "according to Bruce Goldstein, county counsel, Mr. Carrillo is allowed three months of leave before either resuming his duties or vacating his position."

I suspect we'll have to wait till October 13th before we find out if Efren will resign. If Efren waits that long before resigning, that will be another black mark in my book.

[sebastacat]

Thanks for posting your opinion, Barry.

But "embarrassing"?

Creepy is more like it.....

[tommy]

as a past user of substances more mind altering than alcohol... I noticed that I'd do things that seemed very creative and imaginary while high, tho once sober were obviously ridiculous. My intuition is that this may have happened to Efren.

[Karen]

dzerach:

Efren, if you have one shred of decency left in you, you will do the honorable thing and resign so that someone more worthy of the office can take your place.

Great idea, Cat. Saves money on recalling him. Perhaps citizens could help him reach that decision by demonstrating against him. In my 60+ years of experience I know alcoholics are not leadership material. Treated or not, the fact that they have resorted to alcoholism to deal with their problems shows they are absolutely not in possession of the stability and perspective we need in our policy makers.

[Scott McKeown]

I also encourage everybody to vote in the poll at the top of this thread on the website. Note that the poll discloses which users voted for each option.Barry

Barry,

Thank you for your well articulated posting and for creating the poll. However, I found it difficult to choose among your four categories and felt I wanted a more nuanced choice. While I decided to go for "I don't know", the radio button choice I really would have wanted to check would have read as follows:

"While admittedly what we hear in the media does not look good, I have enough life experience to know that given that the only thing I know about this situation is what I have read in media, and at a very early stage of the unfolding of this unfortunate event at that, I suspect, therefore, that I have only received a small slice of the real truth of what actually happened, all of which has been filtered through 3rd party sources. Therefore, I have most likely not received nearly enough of the factual details of this situation to make a sufficiently informed opinion."

An additional personal note: I have always voted for Efren's opponents in every election in which he has ran, yet in all my personal encounters with him over the years I have found him to be a caring, kind, attentive, and sincere public servant, even though I have opposed (as well as supported) many of his positions. When something like this happens to someone I personally know, I usually find myself immediately dropping out of judgement of any public persona they may have and dropping into feeling compassion for them as a human being, and this is no exception. I think we can separate the issue of whether Efren is fit to serve as our County Supervisor while also feeling some compassion for him as a fellow person and community member, as well as feeling compassion for the woman who became involved not by her own choosing.

Scott

[Dixon]

Hey, Barry--
I voted "I Don't Know" in the poll. If, as he seems to have indicated, Scott McKeown also voted "I Don't Know", the total should read at least 2 votes for "I Don't Know", but it says 1 instead. What's up? Does it take awhile after a person votes for their vote to show up in the total, or is the software mis-counting, or...?

[Barry]

Scott's vote was not registered, I presume from a user-malfunction . I just voted for (as) him to reflect his (eloquently) stated opinion.

Hey, Barry--
I voted "I Don't Know" in the poll. If, as he seems to have indicated, Scott McKeown also voted "I Don't Know", the total should read at least 2 votes for "I Don't Know", but it says 1 instead. What's up? Does it take awhile after a person votes for their vote to show up in the total, or is the software mis-counting, or...?

[mamaj]

Probably another one of his bimbos on staff

Who's minding the store while efren's away?

[mamaj]

Don't forget the real estate /predatory lending scams happening in Sonoma County ! Chris Adrian refused to represent my family on this issue even when my sister and him have known each other for many years,he even had a crush on her for a long time....... does not matter to him to protect the victims of this crime,only the bad guys out there.

... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one ....

[mamaj]

Yes like the way Efferen cheated and lied to get elected!

Well said.

[heresbruce]

Pardon my abrupt crudeness, but I am amazed at the general stupidity, vapidity and ignorance of the people posting here: regarding mamaj's remark, Susan Upchurch, Efren Carrillo's assistant is a person of integrity and morals. As regards mamaj's snarkey comment, it causes me to wonder about her agenda. People are drawing conclusions from a man's behavior (Efren Carrillo) without any neutrality or experience in investigating such behavior, without waiting for people trained to do so to produce their report (and they are human and make mistakes as well). The range of interpretations of what someone "might have done" are so wide, your suspicions and conclusions speak more about you, than the person you are speaking about. How paranoid, judgmental and punitive many of you are! Shame on you! Your hearts to me seem to be empty, cold and lost. Please see if you can find them again. Mr. Carrillo and you deserve better... Bruce of Occidental...

[sebastacat]

Good evening, heresbruce......

First of all, I will try to post in such a way that will not cause you to become even more angry and upset than your last post reflects. That is not a perjorative remark, nor is it meant to besmerch you in any way. The subject matter of this thread has certainly raised Waccobbian emotions to the highest levels of tempestuousness in Sebastacat's memory.

Yes, we all have our opinions on Efren's conduct. I know that I certainly have mine, and I will not apologize for it, nor do I expect you to apologize for yours.

However, that being said, I would like to share with you a couple of my observations, if you will permit me to do so.

I think it's safe to say that there are several of us out in WaccoLand and beyond who feel that Efren did not adequately explain his behavior in San Diego to the extent that we, his constituents, felt that he should have. And there were several people who believed his story that he was "protecting the honor of women."

I will tell you right now that Sebastacat was not one of them -- nor does he believe it now.

You express your frustration in your last post with people who you feel are not applying "neutrality of experience investigating such behavior without waiting for people trained to do so to produce their reports."

I think you'll agree with me when I say that it was hard to investigate Efren's conduct concerning the San Diego incident, given the suppression of the videotape surveillance, the sealing of the police report, as well as Efren's silence. And I think that the sense of frustration felt by some us the last time around has, righty or wrongly, seeped into this incident as well.

I think its safe to say that some of that may, indeed, have been caused by Efren himself, for many people took him at his word when he said that he "looked forward to the day" when he could tell his story regarding his penultimate transgression with the law.

That day, of course, never came; but unfortunately, this latest incident did.

Some people, including me, have a much higher standard of conduct for their politicians than others. That may be a generational thing, or it may be just wishful thinking and regretting and pining for the good ol' days, when politicians (for the most part) took public service seriously and knew that the slightest indiscretion meant the end of their career.

In my opinion, Efren has fritted away a great opportunity which has been given to him. True, he won two elections, but in the U.S., as part of our democratic system of government, people are given the opportunity to run for public office; and with that comes a high degree of responsibility and the attendant integrity which people expect of a public official who happens to win an election.

To that end, I would like to pose to you and others this question:

Assume hypothetically for a moment that the accused perpetrator in this case was not Efren, but, rather,
the unemployed guy living at the end of the complex who happens to be a bit down on his luck.
Suppose this person committed the same offenses for which Efren was arrested. Would you still be willing to look at him the same? Would you still be willing to "cut him some slack"? Or would you join the chorus of
"hang 'em!" which is so often sung loudly by the law-and-order folks?

The above questions bear some serious thought. And I sincerely hope that neither you nor anyone else will find my post unpleasant, derogatory, strident or an attack on any of you for the expression of your past or present opinions on this topic.

However, I will continue to demand a higher standard of conduct for our politicians -- at both the local and national level -- as well as continue to demand equal justice for all -- with no strings attached.

[arthunter]

Well said ! ... Susan is wonderful, she's been very helpful in my life ... and yes, with this lynch mob mentality (which I've witnessed before) he seems like a hung man before the investigation has even started ... this does seem to be the political "mood" of America lately, guilty until proven innocent ( if you even get a trial ) ....

What happened to love, compassion, and due process? ...

Pardon my abrupt crudeness, but I am amazed at the general stupidity, vapidity and ignorance of the people posting here: regarding mamaj's remark, Susan Upchurch, Efren Carrillo's assistant is a person of integrity and morals. ...

[arthunter]

I think that the point here is that the man has not even gone to trial ... facts have not been presented ... witnesses have not been questioned ... and yet, there is an assumption that he's guilty as charged ...

I truly hope that you never find yourself in a similar situation, facing a crowd who comes to conclusions about you without any investigation at all ... without even the chance to speak in your own defense ....

can we please not throw out the 6th amendment as well as the others that have been violated?

The Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Good evening, heresbruce......

[sebastacat]

No, let's not (throw out the Sixth Amendment).

However, I don't care if the case never goes to trial. There are certain facts which are undisputed which I find extremely disturbing. But, because I will strive for brevity (at least for now), and because I do not wish to fan the flickering flames of anger and discontent, I will not repeat them here.

Also, I feel that there has been an unspoken -- yet inferred -- insinuation that the police are somehow not telling the truth or are mistaken about the facts or have done a shoddy investigation. This insinuation has been made by many on this board, and I find it distressing and disturbing. Sorry, but I refuse to believe that.

And I certainly do not believe that there is a conspiracy which is being carried out against Efren, as several posters on this thread seem to feel. But that certainly is your prerogative if you wish to do so. Quite frankly, I found some of THOSE to be VERY outlandish, not to mention just plain foolish!

I will not reiterate all of my opinions here, as I feel that all of my previous posts more than adequately express my feelings in this matter.

[dominus]

I've no doubt many of Efren Carrillo's deeper feelings and issues are coming up during rehab and what compelled him to behave the way he did. I can only imagine how painful this is for him and how ashamed he must feel.

Most experts agree that the usual 30 day stay in rehab isn't sufficient time for an individual to recover from a substance abuse issue. When someone returns to the same set of conditions after 30 days, they're vulnerable and can easily relapse.After 30 days of rehab, it's recommended these days that someone in recovery should transition into a half-way house for at least 90 days and live among others in recovery. This helps to reinforce the positive behaviors one is learning. Then ongoing meetings such as the 12 step program provide additional support for getting well. It's a long process and not something that should be rushed. Given that he's only in the very early stages of getting well, it's premature for an apology. There are some who will disagree however unless an addict is well, apologies and making amends will mean nothing. Recovering from substance abuse is an ongoing commitment a day at a time and sometimes an hour at a time.

I've had the opportunity to meet Efren and speak with Susan Churchill. In both cases, I found them to be professional and courteous. This has been a very unfortunate turn of events but for all the reasons I've just mentioned, I believe it would be compassionate not to expect Efren to continue in his duties.

[arthunter]

This has been a great debate and I've been interested in all opinions ... these opinions have ranged from "he's a drunken fool" to "he's been framed" and everything in between ... I don't recall anyone insulting the police or their investigation, but maybe I missed something ... I quoted actual police statements from the Press Democrat because I found them interesting ... they were saying that he wasn't very drunk ... this amazes me ...

I do think that the trial is important, it's an interesting story of an interesting man and I feel that it's important to know what really happened ... but more than that it's about justice and due process and hopefully, we still enjoy these rights ....

However, I don't care if the case never goes to trial.

[sebastacat]

My, my! Thankfully, Sebastacat's fur has gotten a bit longer and his skin a bit thicker - but I guess that comes with age!

arthunter: I never said "insulting." I said, "insinuating."

And I will respectfully and politely remind you that a trial and a conviction are not prerequisites for forming an opinion that an elected official's actions have been so eggregious as to warrant resignation or removal from office.

In Sebastacat's opinion, Efren's "story" is fast becoming Efren's drama -- and, unfortunately, he's dragging Sonoma County and the fifth district down with him.

[arthunter]

Sebastacat,

I meant "insulting" because of the following line ... "the police are somehow not telling the truth or are mistaken about the facts or have done a shoddy investigation"

that's insulting and I don't recall anyone insulting the police ...

I'm glad that you brought up the word "drama" ... I agree with that word and I have wondered why this incident became such a huge drama ... some of my feelings are a result of my past experiences ... I too had a drunken neighbor who was attracted to me ... I was living alone at the time and I woke up one night because I heard someone trying to get in the front door ... I looked out of the window and saw that it was the drunken neighbor ... he was harmless as a lot of drunks are, and I recognized him from the neighborhood ... I didn't call the police, I took him home ...

Another time I woke up to find him camped out under one of my apple trees ... this time I couldn't get him to move so I put a pillow under his head, a blanket over his body, and a bottle of water next to him and I left him there .... even though he was being aggressive, I didn't feel in danger ... he was just drunk ...

I'm not trying to make excuses for Efren's behavior ... I'm just asking "what women hasn't been approached by a drunken man?" ( and I'm sure that many men have been approached by a drunken women ) ... unless you're being physically attacked, there's no threat there ... and if you recognize him as a well known politician from the neighborhood? ... Yes, he tore her screen but he was drunk! ... and then he ran to the front door and said "Hi, I'm your neighbor"... as his lawyer said, what criminal does that?

This is why I want to wait for more facts ... this whole burglary/sexual assault theme seems way too dramatic for me .... he might have a drinking problem but then a lot of excellent, professional people share that dilemma ... and they still do their job ...

but I do understand what you are saying, and, of course, you are entitled to your feelings and opinions ... I respect your opinion and I don't want to argue with you ... I just need more information ...