Why wasn't Obamacare implemented via a tax?

[Barry]

Obamacare is going to the Supreme Court this week. The key objection is over the individual mandate stating that everybody has to get medical insurance or pay a fine. While I think this is ok, I can also understand while some people resist the federal government compelling anybody to buy anything.

I don't understand why is wasn't just implemented as a tax in the first palce and which is then refunded if the person declares they already have health insurance. Seems like it would have bypassed a big constitutional issue. Sure the Republican's would have seen red because a tax is involved, but they're seeing plenty of red anyway.

[Hotspring 44]

Obamacare is going to the Supreme Court this week. The key objection is over the individual mandate stating that everybody has to get medical insurance or pay a fine....

I think that the “individual mandate” is the only way that they were able to get the Republicans to sign on because they (the Democrats) by takeing the single-payer "off the table" threw the baby out with the bathwater (and people like me under the bus) so to speak. They should not have done that because it would've been an excellent strategic leverage that they could have used to get the Republicans to sign what would amount to being a “health care tax bill” (in the eyes of the Republicans) back then.

But of course as we all know now, they (Republicans) would not have signed it at all.

...While I think this is ok, I can also understand while some people resist the federal government compelling anybody to buy anything.

Personally, I do not think “the federal government compelling” anybody to purchase a for-profit healthcare insurance policy was, or is the right way to go; I never did!

...I don't understand why is wasn't just implemented as a tax in the first palce and which is then refunded if the person declares they already have health insurance. Seems like it would have bypassed a big constitutional issue. Sure the Republican's would have seen red because a tax is involved, but they're seeing plenty of red anyway.

1- It may have bypassed the constitutional issue, but it would've never passed in the House in the first place.
2- Shouldn’t somebody just be able to be allowed, in their tax forms, to file for some sort of exemption instead of having to pay that much money up front?
2- Now it's more than just Republicans “seeing red”, I think that it is absurdly shortsighted for the Obama administration and his fellow Democrats in the federal government to expect anything but problems with this requirement to purchase health care coverage from any for-profit enterprise Instead of the federal government covering it with a tax similar to Social Security tax in the first place.

Personally, I'm hoping that the Supreme Court will declare that it is unconstitutional for the federal government to require any private person to directly pay another private person for any kind of insurance coverage whatsoever.

I think there should be a tax and some sort of single-payer baseline health care coverage for everybody which covers everybody, and I also think that when somebody wants more coverage and has the money they could be free to purchase more coverage from anywhere they wish to that will actually cover them be it a for-profit, insurance situation or not. But however, there would be no tax exemption for any of that.
I also think that there should be a sliding scale of how much a person has to pay in the form of a federal tax for the basic amount of single-payer government coverage based on ability to pay and/or personal income.

Why should people be required by law to be paying for the profit of some private organization, person, or company? That's why I think that it is highly likely that the Supreme Court will rule that part of the healthcare bill unconstitutional.

Why should the people be forced by the government to guarantee the survival of a for-profit insurance company of any kind?

Wouldn't it cost less for health care coverage if there was not a profit in it?

I think that the government is going to get stuck with all the expensive people; to provide healthcare for and all of the for-profit healthcare insurance provider entities are going to skim the the cream of top of the people that are the most healthy so that unhealthy or sick people’s healthcare insurance coverage will be paid for in large part by the federal government. Meanwhile, the for-profit health care insurance providers will be pocketing huge sums of money that would otherwise be there for the greater good of everybody else.

As far as healthcare is concerned, being bandied about as the biggest expense that the government has and how it consumes a huge and continually growing percentage of the GDP, it seems that we (the whole country) should have a discussion about why that is and what to do about it in terms of ratcheting the costs upward of things that we already know that people do that isn't healthy in the form of use tax or something like that of those things that we know of which are causing or at least contributed largely to the cause of the unhealthiness.

There should also be monetary incentives in the form of tax deductions or something like that for individuals who either remain healthy or get healthier when they can and actually do so.

I could go on and on but I'm going to stop here for now.

[rossmen]

the reason health care is so expensive, especially in the us, is because cost and responsibility are separated from payment. the majority of our health problems are created by our lifestyle choices. we have a system where quality and cost information is almost impossible to find and citizens are enabled to sit around stressing about the world eating junk. takes a lot of $ to provide health care this way!

[Hotspring 44]

the reason health care is so expensive, especially in the us, is because cost and responsibility are separated from payment. the majority of our health problems are created by our lifestyle choices. we have a system where quality and cost information is almost impossible to find and citizens are enabled to sit around stressing about the world eating junk. takes a lot of $ to provide health care this way!

Exactly, that's why I said what I said in a previous post:

..."it seems that we (the whole country) should have a discussion about why that is and what to do about it in terms of ratcheting the costs upward of things that we already know that people do that isn't healthy in the form of use tax or something like that of those things that we know of which are causing or at least contributed largely to the cause of the unhealthiness."

We very much need to get a handle on exactly what's going on with us that makes the health care so expensive; not just the for-profits, which is a big part of it, but also the issues of sugar and how that relates to diabetes, fat and heart and arterial disease, also the lack of physical exercise, which relates to all of the above etc. and also the issue of the carcinogens in our environment that are so prevalent; because much of them are, for the most part either, avoidable or could be mitigated as far as exposure levels are concerned.

The only way to even coming anywhere near adequately addressing the health-care cost issue is to have that discussion openly and honestly with real, actual, positive solutions at the conclusion; then the most important thing of all; the actual actions it will take to succeed.

As far as the responsibility aspect is concerned, I agree, but it takes the whole of all of the considerations ranging from each individual to the for-profit conglomerates and everything in between including industries that produce cancer-causing materials and substances and those of “us” who theoretically depend on those unhealthy foods, carcinogenic materials and chemicals some of which do change hormones and have other effects that cause premature puberty and lipid production contributing to obesity etc., and also the all too common habits that feed the lack of exercise which have all become epidemic in USA.

Then there is the massive issue of workplace stresses, which I think that America is in huge denial of along with the other issues I mentioned; they all are linked with each other in a vicious cycle that must also be addressed to succeed in changing the situation..

I hear people, particularly in politics, complaining more about how much money it’s costing and yet I don't hear enough complaining about the fact that it's costing many lives in the form of premature deaths, miscarriages, maiming, unnecessary misery etc.!
Until we get out of the denial of the fact that lives are being lost because of such denial were going to continue to be in such sorry, pitiful, unnecessarily bad physical and mental condition in this country, generally speaking.

How many people have you heard (of) that said that they felt better on a particular day than they felt in years ("than ever") and then the next day they drop dead!?... ... To many, I think.

I think the whole country is in a similar situation... ... its called being in (overt) denial... ...We need a way out of that denial!

[Hotspring 44]

Monday’s (March 26 2012) audio of the Supreme Court health care law oral arguments:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_ar...=11-398-Monday

[podfish]

the reason health care is so expensive, especially in the us, is because cost and responsibility are separated from payment. the majority of our health problems are created by our lifestyle choices. we have a system where quality and cost information is almost impossible to find and citizens are enabled to sit around stressing about the world eating junk. takes a lot of $ to provide health care this way!

absolutely. There's more but this piece is pretty intractable. I have no clue how this issue will play out. The development of modern scientific medicine with its ability to treat pretty much anything, the expectation of public funding of health care (vs. the private charities of centuries past), and a ton of other factors have put us in a position where we don't expect people to just quietly die at home without professional care. This is new to the world. So the solutions will be new, too. The incremental stuff going on now isn't going to be enough.