Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?

[Gina Williams]

Wow, the poor people in this neighborhood. Years ago, I had neighbors who cranked up the music very loud on the weekends nights. I tried asking them to turn down the volume (I didn't mind the music, it was the extreme volume I had a problem with), this didn't work. So, when my windows rattled or the music was so loud that I couldn't sleep after 10 or 11pm at night, I called the local police dept and complained. They would come out and ask the neighbors to turn down the volume. I had to do this a few times, but it worked. For a music venue, they'd probably need to have the whole neighborhood complain to the police dept and the city, but maybe it might make a difference.

As someone who is young and has excellent hearing . . . I'd like to offer that HopMonk is the only venue I have had rattling my windows on a regular basis. I lived with that every Monday, Thursday, and most Fridays and Saturdays for two years. ...
-L

[rossmen]

i have a question for the hopmonk crew (and thanks for showing up for this discussion!) :

how often do patrons ask you to turn it up?

i almost always employ earplugs at shows, and assume that asking that the sound be turned down would fall on deaf ears.

[Karl Frederick]

I don't like somebody else's noise in my space, or in your space, either, especially when it's a regular and preventable thing. So, although I enjoy Hopmonk's burgers, I'll look for another place until they see fit to enforce reasonable acoustic control and show more respect to their neighbors.

Wow, the poor people in this neighborhood. Years ago, I had neighbors who cranked up the music very loud on the weekends nights. I tried asking them to turn down the volume (I didn't mind the music, it was the extreme volume I had a problem with), this didn't work. So, when my windows rattled or the music was so loud that I couldn't sleep after 10 or 11pm at night, I called the local police dept and complained. They would come out and ask the neighbors to turn down the volume. I had to do this a few times, but it worked. For a music venue, they'd probably need to have the whole neighborhood complain to the police dept and the city, but maybe it might make a difference.

[Karl Frederick]

Barry, I hope you're not suggesting that Patrick & co are responsible only to their paying customers, and not to the community in which they operate.

Be nice...

Patrick and the HopMonk get to run the place how they think best. If people don't like it, then they won't go back. You can't please all the people all the time... From the crowds that I have noticed there lately, they are doing a pretty good job!

[Jacques]

i have a question for the hopmonk crew (and thanks for showing up for this discussion!) :

how often do patrons ask you to turn it up?

i almost always employ earplugs at shows, and assume that asking that the sound be turned down would fall on deaf ears.

Almost every time I play there someone says "Turn it up man!", even at times when I KNEW it was loud enough. I think for some people its not even about the sound. They just use it as a greeting or way to interact with the DJ or artist. But some, almost every night would want it louder and ask.

[Jacques]

Be nice...
You can't please all the people all the time... From the crowds that I have noticed there lately, they are doing a pretty good job!

Big up Barry!

[Jacques]

... - if you can't speak to your friends without yelling, until the band takes a break ...then it's simply too loud.

I like to pump up the volume and I used to rock out at home and live at concerts to Hendrix, The Who, Led Zepplin, etc., etc. but the indoor and outdoor concerts were never so overwhelmingly loud, that we couldn't speak to our friends.

Trish

All due respect, and truly not being sarcastic here, but from what I understand if you were in the front to middle of the crowd at a concert by Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Led Zepplin, etc. you probably wouldn't have been able to speak with your friends without yelling loudly, if at all. Even if it was outside. Maybe my mental fantasy of those classic concerts based on tales from friends who went is just exaggerated? As I understand it they had some WALLS of sound both in the PA and on stage.

[Dixon]

All due respect, and truly not being sarcastic here, but from what I understand if you were in the front to middle of the crowd at a concert by Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Led Zepplin, etc. you probably wouldn't have been able to speak with your friends without yelling loudly, if at all. Even if it was outside. Maybe my mental fantasy of those classic concerts based on tales from friends who went is just exaggerated? As I understand it they had some WALLS of sound both in the PA and on stage.

Yeah, many times, back in the day, I'd exit a concert and my ears would be ringing for hours afterward. Some years ago the Who were listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the loudest band in the world--as loud as a jet engine. Maybe Trish was on such good acid when she saw these bands that the volume didn't bother her?

["Mad" Miles]

The, "arrogance of youth", seems to apply to this discussion (as well as many other social issues.) I've already weighed in on this site when issues of sound pollution from neighbors have come up. I've fought those fights. And know how to win. Or at least I know how to hold my own.

Communication and respect are key. But when those fail, there are defensive techniques that work.

I've suffered the consequences of my own arrogance and ignorance. As mentioned earlier.

Do we have to reinvent the wheel every five to ten years? Really? (Cliché acknowledged and "owned".)

Remind me to tell the story of the time I was living in a council flat in Brixton. Partying all night, and every morning around eight the guy in the flat above powered up his stereo with Dub beats. I already knew the genre. He had a good selection. But trying to sleep in with that going on above my head?

Let's just say it's a good thing I was tolerant, knew that I was an outsider, and could power through until noon when he shut down and probably had to go to work. Combined with the kids playing outside, it contributed to an exotic and interesting experience. Keep in mind, I wasn't paying rent, didn't own a place and could move on whenever I chose.

EDM Sucks! [Electronic Dance Music? - Barry]

Then there was that last year or two in Chicago, when my upstairs neighbors "needed" to rev up for work at the restaurant at ten a.m. and I was sleeping until three. I've already told the tale of how I checked their narcissistic bullshit.

And before that the seven months I lived in the club district of Clark/Sheffield and Roscoe (Wrigleyville, Chicago) and had to deal with Friday and Saturday nights, while living with the El running just behind the apartment building. Good thing I didn't go to bed until 5:00 a.m. Did that help? A little. But it didn't keep me from wanting to assassinate club goers at 2:00 a.m. from my third story window. Thankfully, I didn't need to sleep at that hour, and there was always TV.

Don't even get me started about the car alarms in the wee hours, at 47th and Lake Park, because I lived in "The Windy City". I won't admit to my specific sniping fantasies (requires an intimate knowledge of alarm placement in the engine compartment of various model cars) during those years, in a public forum.

Let's just say it's a good thing we live in a moderately regulated society, in spite of the lack of just and effective noise ordinances.

[Gina Williams]

i have a question for the hopmonk crew (and thanks for showing up for this discussion!) :

how often do patrons ask you to turn it up?

i almost always employ earplugs at shows, and assume that asking that the sound be turned down would fall on deaf ears.

Interesting question! I've noticed how often it has been recommended in various posts that people who think it's too loud should get earplugs, even professional quality earplugs. IMO if the sound is so loud, it makes my ears ring and gives me a headache, or if I need earplugs to enjoy it rather than endure it, it's too loud! Seems like the musicians and sound techs who need the sound at a higher volume could get hearing aids.

I've been to events at Hop Monk (that had me leaving early with a headache) and had dinner with friends there (having to yell to hear eachother), and decided long ago that the scene was too loud for me.

And, BTW I think it's great that Hop Monk has made a success of that location. Clearly they have created a draw. Many businesses have failed there in the 25 years I've been in Sebastopol. If the sound wasn't so loud, I'd go there too!

[Barry]

No, Hopmonk needs to be a good neighbor, too. However it sounds like they have really tried to be considerate, and this thread is about the sound level inside their music room, not externally, which has been discussed before. Please keep your comments on the topic of the sound level inside. You're welcome to start another thread regarding noise issues.

Barry, I hope you're not suggesting that Patrick & co are responsible only to their paying customers, and not to the community in which they operate.

[Malarkey]

We get asked to turn it up all the time. Not to say that we do... but know that it does happen on a regular basis.

I can't help but scratch my head with the examples that Trish used. The WHO is still considered that loudest band in history. The Grateuful Dead invented a literal WALL of sound that helped define PA acoustic history to this day. I'm NOT convinced that you could have had a conversation at normal volume at a Jimmy Hendrix or Led Zep concert unless you were in the parking lot.

Please don't be sensitive to this next statement... but through the nauseating years of this debate I've seen a HUGE pattern, like I explained in my first post, younger people like it loud... older people do not. From what I can tell most people commenting on it being "too loud"... I'm guessing are 40+ yea?

Is taking those free rights, that you once had listening to Hendrix, Zepplin etc, away really fair? What would rock and roll history be if we played it at 80db? Thats the loudness of a telephone. Concerts have been 110-120bd since the 60's.

We run a live music venue with proper sound insolation, have taken extensive measures to contain it, provide ear plugs, have a crystal clear sound system and the most professional people in the industry to run it. I've offered a number of suggestions, links to custom ear plug doctors (that still allow you to hear the entire frequency range... just at lower volume) and acknowledgement to the concern.

If you still feel it's too loud and you don't want to wear ear plugs... then I'm sorry we can't offer you a show experience and understand.

We've done everything in our power to control the business we run and feel we do it well.

How many other Sebastopol business' have raised tens of thousands of dollars to fundraisers, foundations and charities through these "loud events"?

kindly,
patrick malone

["Mad" Miles]

Patrick / Malarkey,

You argue well, make salient points, are in the biz, you're the expert.

Surely you're not comparing a large venue, stadium or major hall, where there is music once every few weeks at the volume that The Who or TGD played, somewhere in an industrial area or otherwise away from residential areas, to a club in a fairly small town with residences nearby, and music seven nights a week?

As for the old / young dynamic. That's what I was referring to by my use of the phrase, the arrogance of youth. Young people on average are oblivious to the long term effects of loud, consistent pleasurable noise. I know this because I was young once and went out at least once a week, sometimes two or three times, to hear and dance to very loud Punk Rock, Art Punk, New Wave, Reggae, World Beat (mostly African, some Latin) and other genres of amplified music.

And there were warnings / cautions about hearing loss from extreme and consistent exposure. Some people fashioned earplugs out of cocktail napkins or kleenex, some didn't. We already had the example of the hippies, some of whom had blown out their hearing. Hearing loss among musicians and sound engineers was notorious.

And guess what, when you have killed some of those nerves and don't hear as well, turning up the volume recaptures the glory days when your neurons weren't fried. But, some "older" people wise up, realize that volume does not enhance quality (except for the body vibrations from the low end.). Some people actually learn from experience.

Nobody has the right to inject their sounds, smells or any other uninvited sense phenomenon into my private space. If they insist on it and are not amenable to reason and persuasion, well, then we have a problem. Your arguments here evince an air of privileged arrogance. No matter how much you raise for charity, that does not excuse noise pollution injected into the homes of people who did not volunteer to be subjected to it. There is no justification which works for that.

This site has had other discussions about the other impacts from HopMonk on the community. Is there a pattern?

EDM Sucks!!!!!

(Yes, Barry. Electronic Dance Music. My generic term for a whole host of genres that go back to the Disco era. "Thump, Thump" beats that were/are associated with Rave Culture. à chacun son goût. Taste is personal and relative. I don't begrudge others their proclivities, as I hope they don't deny or begrudge me mine. But that stuff is boring, with some exceptions for creative DJ's who bite/sample riffs and do interesting things with them.

A much larger discussion, the advent of the synthesizer was the beginning of the end. I give my "cri de coeur" here because Techno, Trance, Jungle, Ambient, Trip-Hop and I'm sure many other subgenres that I'm not hip to since I don't hang in that scene, are subject to being played at high volume, with lots of low end, penetrating beyond the space into neighbors spaces. And if any genre other than various forms of Rock, contributes to generational hearing loss, it's EDM.

Re: Rock, I also shout, Heavy Metal Sucks!!! But that's just me, an aesthete with refined tastes in popular culture. Anybody want to make something of it?

Give me a song, with good lyrics and melody, excellent musicians playing instruments who have crafted their art and arrangement, any day over repetitive beats and boring, predictable sampling.

Music made for people tripping on Ecstasy? Well, if I have to be on psychoactives to appreciate its "brilliance", let's just say it came too late for me!?)

[Sereniti]

Patrick and Malarkey,

I appreciate that you are in this discussion. I know it must be difficult to be the center of attention right now. The topic is NOT directed as much at you as it is on a discussion of the larger issue.

There seems to be a demand for lower decibel entertainment where we can enjoy the atmosphere you created. This could be a unique marketing opportunity to give it a try for a weeknight and see how that works out.

For example hungs and pianos are among the most sublime instruments in the range proposed. I may be a bit radical to suggest this (but heck variety is spice) what if you proposed something or maybe the community can. Give it a try a la burner style. We'll bring our snuggies and pillows and buy your food and drinks while we enjoy someone who wants to perform in this kind of environment. ---- we are buying a sensory experience afterall....

I'm in Atlanta right now or I'd offer to throw some juice into this. I think there is alot of passion in this discussion. To me it seems like a win-win worth trying. But ultimately this is your business to decide how you wish to be. You've put your personal resources into creating this and I think you are a positive contributor to the community.

As for the community we can see they have made an effort. Let's offer solutions, focus on fixing rather than what is wrong. It applies to so many things in life.....

La Sereniti

[Barry]

Patrick and Malarkey,

Patrick isn't speaking Malarkey here... Nor is DJ Jacques

I appreciate that you are in this discussion.

Ditto! And your thoughtful contribution too, Sereniti!

I know it must be difficult to be the center of attention right now. The topic is NOT directed as much at you as it is on a discussion of the larger issue.

There seems to be a demand for lower decibel entertainment where we can enjoy the atmosphere you created. This could be a unique marketing opportunity to give it a try for a weeknight and see how that works out.

I appreciate Partrick's and Jacques comments about younger people liking it louder than us old farts (I'm 55 )

I'd like to see weekly or monthly weeknight loudness-contrained shows (or even just when there is a boomer friendly show) where it's declared the sound level will not exceed x-decibels. Seems like it would be a decent marketing opportunity (you'd might even get some press out of it). It would also count as a peace offering to your neighbors.

Acoustic music would be an easy answer, but I'd rather see some sort of amplified dance music. Us aging hippies still like our rock n roll, even if we can't handle the decibels we used to. Some of the older musicians might appreciate that as well.

As to what level, I might pick 100 decibels, as I still do like it loud, just not ear splitting, and it's a nice round number, but 91 is the official safe level for 2 hours of exposure.

I could see this boosting attendance, including several people in this thread!

In response to earlier comments of the sound levels compared to concerts of yore, I think one factor is the smallness of the room compared to indoor auditoriums. HopMonk's room is like an overgrown headphone! (which can be a good thing!)

So far there's been 20 votes in the poll including 6 votes for sometimes too loud and 10 votes for generally too loud. This Link will take you to the poll to vote and see the results.

[sambacat]

Hey, wait just a darn minute. Now, if the Age Card is being played here, I just wanna say that...... In my experience with Old Folks, their hearing loss due to age (and many decades of way-too-loud-concerts) requires an INCREASE in volume. So, what's all this talk about only Old People wanting the volume turned down? That just doesn't make any sense. :)

[Shandi]

As with everything, we are unique in our preferences for sound, taste, smell, touch, and visuals. I find that as I get older, I'm more sensitive to sound. So, in spite of the fact that it's been said that aging may accompany some degree of loss in our senses, I haven't found this to be true for me.

I've become more sensitive in the area of sound and touch. About 8 years ago, I attended a concert where the music was extremely loud, but I loved it, but then I was dancing, not talking. Then I went to a fundraiser concert at the Sebastopol Community Center, only a few years later, and I couldn't hear what anyone said to me. My chest was vibrating with the sound, and I had a headache afterwards. I wasn't able to dance due to a painful hip.

Last night I attended "Open Mic" at North LIghts Book Store, to hear a friend read some prose. I arrived an hour before he was scheduled, and the sound of the musicians was so loud I wanted to leave. As some of you know, it's a small bookstore. I stuck it out until my friend came on, but I won't go back because it was too uncomfortable. I noticed that I was the only "senior" there, besides one other person. Mostly people in their 20's and 30's. Not my kind of place on "Open Mic" night.

My taste is changing too...becoming more sensitive to sharp flavors. My sense of smell may be going the way of my vision, although I can always tell if my roommate's cooking, or her dog needs a bath. But I'm thankful to have glasses that allow for clear vision.

What really bothers me is when music is cranked up in a restaurant, and I've asked for it to be turned down while I'm there. Loud pounding music isn't conducive to a relaxing meal, but it seems to be a foreign idea to all but the most expensive places.

It also takes me awhile to adjust to the sound in a movie theater, and sometimes I bring cotton for my ears. Mostly I avoid going because of the expense. But even if I could afford it, the sound is too loud for me.

So, there's my on the subject.

[Shandi]

I never attended many concerts, so maybe that's why my hearing is still acute? What you're saying is believable, and does make sense, but there are people like me that you just can't make any sense out of. Maybe the poll could be taken in age groups, to see what that might reveal from the few people who vote, even though it's unscientific.

Hey, wait just a darn minute. Now, if the Age Card is being played here, I just wanna say that...... In my experience with Old Folks, their hearing loss due to age (and many decades of way-too-loud-concerts) requires an INCREASE in volume. So, what's all this talk about only Old People wanting the volume turned down? That just doesn't make any sense. :)

[Oceanicdreamer]

I don't think it is the age group so much as a person's sensitivity. I never liked very loud music, even in my twenties, but then I was a classical musician and like to hear the subtleties of the music.

[rossmen]

i have always used ear protection, even in my teens, because; i love dancing to live music, i hate having headaches and ringing ears, and i believe my initial cringe in response to any noise is valuable info. now i'm 52, i hear as well as ever, and i still struggle to understand why people use the destruction of their inner ear nerves to get high!

years ago i was reading about the rampant noise pollution (often by choice), of our society and the researcher wrote; "african grandparents living in the rainforest, where the loudest sound is the people singing, hear better than american teenagers."

one of the worst places i have encountered in sonoma county was scandia, where all the video games were cranked up to be heard over the din of all the other games, and the place was full of kids!

i would hope clubs take some responsibility for their decibel levels, and we are responsible for our own health.

I don't think it is the age group so much as a person's sensitivity. I never liked very loud music, even in my twenties, but then I was a classical musician and like to hear the subtleties of the music.

[podfish]

Yeah, many times, back in the day, I'd exit a concert and my ears would be ringing for hours afterward. Some years ago the Who were listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the loudest band in the world--as loud as a jet engine. Maybe Trish was on such good acid when she saw these bands that the volume didn't bother her?

+1 -- atually, for days, at least a couple of times.
(OT) I still don't mind loud amps, but I don't understand how people can use stereo earbuds. They seem dangerous to me. Every time I use them it seems like my eardrums might be trying to warn me not to.

[Barry]

Let's hear (while we still can ) from some of you who haven't chimed in yet ( ) so we can get an unbiased reading of public sentiment.

If noticed that no matter what the issue is, there is alway more energy expressed from the people who are opposed to it, rather than for it. So it if you think the volume is just fine (or whatever), please let us know!

So, how's the sound at live venues workin' for ya?

Please post a comment or vote in the poll at the post at the top of this thread on the website.

[podfish]

radio buttons weren't the right choice -- how 'bout a way to say "sometimes too loud" AND "sometimes not loud enough"?? They don't really average to be equivalent to "generally about right"....

[Mrs. Wacco]

Most definitely TOO LOUD!! Diego's Umbrella was particulalry bad. I love to dance and to be engulfed in the music. But I always hesitate to go to the HopMonk because it is always so so loud. Loud is OK but just not ear piercing where it actually hurts. I'd love it if it was turned down just a smidge to take the edge off.

Let's hear (while we still can ) from some of you who haven't chimed in yet ( ) so we can get an unbiased reading of public sentiment.

If noticed that no matter what the issue is, there is alway more energy expressed from the people who are opposed to it, rather than for it. So it if you think the volume is just fine (or whatever), please let us know!

So, how's the sound at live venues workin' for ya?

Please post a comment or vote in the poll at the post at the top of this thread on the website.

[Shandi]

Barry, I think that many people responded to the slant of your comments, being toward the "too loud" aspect. So, it would be great to hear from those who think the Loud Sound is fine for them, no matter where it is. I'm imagining that it would come from the younger generation. I think that being "high" from whatever, may also have an influence, and or the level of "love" we have for the band/performers. But that's a whole different angle, than just the physical aspect of liking/enjoying loud music, especially "base", which I do have an affinity for, and therefore a little more tolerance. .

Let's hear (while we still can ) from some of you who haven't chimed in yet ( ) so we can get an unbiased reading of public sentiment.

If noticed that no matter what the issue is, there is alway more energy expressed from the people who are opposed to it, rather than for it. So it if you think the volume is just fine (or whatever), please let us know!

So, how's the sound at live venues workin' for ya?

Please post a comment or vote in the poll at the post at the top of this thread on the website.

[Orm Embar]

Sorry Barry, I'll get back on topic at the bottom of my post, but I want to offer some appreciation and clarification first. -L

Hello Jacques,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the thoughtfully worded contribution. I appreciate knowing that there have been steps taken to buffer some of the sound. I imagine working with a stone building creates a few interesting dynamics to consider. I believe some more work could be done around those lower frequencies. Happy neighbors are good neighbors to have around.

FYI - the entrance move happened after I offered an observation that the Monday and Thursday night dance music got louder around midnight - 1am when folks tended to open the side door. I appreciated that move and told Patrick it made a difference when the door was closed. Of course, the door would still get opened because that is a quick way to get outside for a smoke break or to cool off. I'm sure the dancers and any live performers appreciate the fans! If I still lived in the neighborhood I would still be working on this issue and offering feedback, but I have moved and am blissfully asleep at 1am these days.

Patrick,

You are welcome to view my profile and realize that you dated my little sister waaaay back in your high school days. I have a screen name but I am not anonymous here.
You were not on the floor at Hopmonk whenever I called in the past and therefore cannot give first-hand remarks regarding the treatment I received. You eventually gave me your cell number so that I would call you instead of the Hopmonk line whenever there was an issue. That actually worked and I appreciate your attention, although I hated waking you in the middle of the night. Unfortunately, this only happened after a neighbor finally called the police and officer Colthurst was on the job. I would only call if the sound disturbed my children's sleep. I didn't call on my own account, even though I spent many nights awake because the windows and wall would vibrate with those crazy and carrying low frequencies.
Regarding my not-naming-names: I will not give a worker's name on this public forum, not matter how condescending he was to me. I am sure he felt that he was simply doing his job.

I would love to hear that there will occasionally be some lower decibel shows. You have great talent coming through Hopmonk . . . and other venues too! Why not broaden your audience and revenues with occasional "low decibel" shows? Advertise them here . . . you might be pleasantly surprised. There are more of us in the under 40 crowd than you might think. I know I have sensitive hearing, but I still appreciate music and wearing ear plugs to enjoy music is akin to trying to savor delicious food with a partially stuffed up nose. It's just not the same and not nearly as enjoyable as pure unbuffered sound - canned or live.

-L

When we first started at the Hopmonk, the entrance was on the street which made it very easy for sound to escape the room and go down the street to neighbors houses. This is a primary reason why user Orm Embar had issues with sound carrying to his/her house probably. Since that time, the entrance to the Abbey for shows has been moved to the other side of the venue and the street doors are kept closed. The Hopmonk installed sound buffering inside the venue and installed 5 fans to keep the room cooler so that the doors, which used to be kept open a crack for air, are now kept closed. The sound buffering has been a huge help and we have set levels with our soundpeople to insure appropriate volume.

Even with all that done, with the best of intentions and efforts, some folks will find the volume or, more probably certain frequencies, not to their liking. I am very sensitive to that and just want to chime in that we are always working to better the experience of everyone that comes to the shows and to all in our community.

Respect - Jacques

[CyberHippy]

Howdy folks, I'm Ken, the Sound Manager at Aubergine After Dark & Cafe.

I've read through this thread, and it has been a challenge to keep from writing a novel as a response.

We make a concerted effort to keep the volume under control at our venue, for our customers and our employees as well as the needs of our neighbors. There are certainly bands and DJ's who love to push the limits, and once a show is under-way it is very hard to convince a performer to turn it down (especially when the loudest thing on stage is often the acoustic volume of the drums). But believe me, we have our limits and do our best to stay within them.

The basic rule I give my guys is to keep it from going over 100db if at all possible, and to keep the average between 90 and 95 for dance music and 85-90 for listening music. We have a db meter at the mixer and I encourage my team to keep checking it and not depend on their ears to judge the volume in the room.

Basically, if people are going out to dance they want to feel the music, and that only happens above a certain volume level. If you are going to a club to hear music, and you are sensitive to volume, earplugs are going to be necessary because live music in a club is going to be loud.

Again, we make an effort to keep our venue at a level that is right for the style of music, without being too loud for the majority of our patrons. My goal is to have people walk in the front door and say "Wow, it sounds good in here, let's hang out!"

Thanks,

Ken

[Ernieman]

Readers should be aware that City of Sebastopol has a Noise Ordinance. Theoretically, what one wants and feels about 'sound' or music doesn't matter. The Ordinance makes it incumbent upon the business to keep sound above 45dbl from escaping the property after 10:00pm and 55dbl before that hour. The link to the Ordinance is:
https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/mgourley/municipal_code_chapter_8.25_noise_control_ordinance.pdf

On a practical note, this is almost impossible in an old building without proper sound insulation. Bass tones easily escape from acoustical mitigation. However, the Sebastopol standard mirrors most local government Ordinances. It is the businesses responsibility to meet this decibel level. It is the City responsibility to enforce.
Ernieman

[jazzdoll]

Following up on Ken (great sound guy!) from Aubergine's comments: As a member of a local band, I appreciate efforts by the folks at Aubergine to keep the sound levels sane. Although we have fans of all ages, we often get wonderful feedback from the over 40 crowd that they could carry on conversation while we played. What a concept! While we're not a dance band, per se, people do get up and boogey about to our music which tells me you don't need to have ear-splitting sound to "feel" the music. Over the years I recall having to leave a few concerts early because I just couldn't take the noise level, which considering the price of a ticket to a big music venue was a waste and a shame. I actually have a deep, physical reaction to overly loud bass -- it hurts not just my ears, it shakes my insides and that can't be good! Now if I could just figure out how to silence (or at least tone down) those people with over-grown sound systems in their cars blasting window-rattling bass for blocks and blocks....

[CyberHippy]

...Theoretically, what one wants and feels about 'sound' or music doesn't matter. The Ordinance makes it incumbent upon the business to keep sound above 45dbl from escaping the property after 10:00pm and 55dbl before that hour. The link to the Ordinance is:
https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/mgourley/municipal_code_chapter_8.25_noise_control_ordinance.pdf

Ernieman

I've worked with Seb police with that ordinance in hand, it's really fun to stand there with a db meter showing our voices at 75-80db and try to measure what's coming out of the club. A car driving by will always exceed the levels of the ordinance.

https://home.earthlink.net/~dnitzer/...n/Decibel.html

55db is somewhere between "normal office noise" and "conversational speech"

The actual ordinance is much more detailed than that, but this is a good example of how ludicrous it is to try to regulate sound in this situation. The ordinance is very specific about how and where the reading should be taken, and that the person doing the measuring has to be specifically trained in the use of a db meter. I found myself training the officers in the basic usage of the meter they were holding (like the difference between A and C weight, calibration etc.), and we work together to find the best possible middle-ground between the letter and the intent of the ordinance.

And yes, it is essentialy impossible to control the travel of bass without actually creating a complete building within a building - it is the nature of sound that tones below 100hz will go through walls, and below 50hz will travel through solid ground. Unfortunately it is also the nature of sub-bass sounds that they are not even heard unless you are at least 20 feet away from the source, which is why people who are driving and want to hear bass turn it up so much louder, and also why that is all you hear - the mid and high tones are blocked by the windows, but the bass travels onward. It's also why I'm always telling bass players to turn it down - they just can't hear the lowest notes when they're standing right next to the amp. Luckily I'm a bassist as well so they usually take my advice.

Peace,

Ken