Sex for the sake of sex

[Barry]

I'm delighted to see this interesting and juicy question/discussion thread come back to life! Dixon's explanation of it's second cumming is spot on:

This thread was brought back to life because I stumbled upon it for the first time and decided to respond to Mykil's post. It appeared in your digest either because you posted in this thread yourself or because you're subscribed to the Conscious Relationship category.

This thread was started over 2 years ago and has hosted a lively, frank and thoughtful interchange by many community members. It's worth a scan of the prior responses on the website.

To address MarilynO's concern:

I am not prudish, but I think it is really inappropriate to post this kind of thing on a community website. Such conversation has its place, but good grief, I don't think this is it. There are plenty of sexy places on line that aren't community and family oriented.

While this is definitely a "community oriented" site it is not a "family oriented" site. It is intended for adults. I haven't put up any age restrictions because they are meaningless. Kids can easily access vast amounts of porn elsewhere on the net, with and without attempts of age verification.

And regarding "community", this site is intended for the "conscious community". A good discussion of this use of "conscious" is here. What's more, this is our Conscious Relationship category. A frank/conscious discussion of the relationship of sex and love is very appropriate here! I invite anybody uncomfortable with this topic to stop reading now and click the (this button is active).

My own is "sex for the sake of sex" and "making love" are two end points of continuum. They are both different and mingle quite easily. It's quite possible to feel genuine love in the moment with someone you are having casual sex with (remember, love is all there is!) just as it's quite possible to have "sex for the sake of sex" with someone you love. I've enjoyed both!

How do you navigate this continuum? Can sex for sex sake lead to love, as it did for me? Do you just abstain if you are not in a committed relationship? What if it's been years since you have been in one? Have you successfully navigated the treacherous waters of sex with others while in a committed relationship? Do you think sex for sex's sake is getting a bum rap and it's really a pure expression of universal love while being great aerobic exercise? :bigkiss:

[Shandi]

I am not prudish, but I think it is really inappropriate to post this kind of thing on a community website. Such conversation has its place, but good grief, I don't think this is it. There are plenty of sexy places on line that aren't community and family oriented."

I'd consider sex as part of conscious relationship between two or more consenting adults, and I'll bet that plenty of people in this community welcome the discussion.

It's a balancing act to avoid offending some people in the community. But the great thing is that we have a CHOICE not to read what is offensive to us, without censoring it completely for others.

[Toxic Reverend]

Q: Can sex for sex sake lead to love, as it did for me?

A:
According to the book "The Road Less Traveled" by Scott Peck, "yes" How ever,
Scott Peck presents it as "can the myth of romantic love lead to real love" ?

The basic concept is that the "Myth of Romantic Love" usually lasts from
between six months to a couple of years. Then, after you "fall out of love"
and the mystical romance feelings are gone or going away, you have to
actually "work" at developing "Real Love". At which point you can end up
with the experience of "Falling in Love" again with the same person.

One of the problems is that it does take two people to be consciously aware
and both willing to "Work At It".

I learned this from one of the happiest married couples that I have ever known.
After watching them laugh while they fought, I b badgered them as to how they
ever managed to develop enough to do that. Their reply was the before mentioned
book and that they learned of it and had used it in "marriage counseling". Along
with the companion "work book" titled, "Exploring the Road Less Traveled".

Frankly, I still have a lot to learn about being able to laugh and argue in the same
breath. To this day, over twenty years later, it still amazes me.

For myself, I do not have much of a track record with a "long term stable relationship"
to really have any bragging rights. But at least I have tried and that is better than never
having to of tried. I had spent 15 years in one relationship with a woman that had a son
my age. That ended about twenty years ago. Maybe one of my problems is that she
did leave such a high bench mark. Still, it is better to have loved and lost than never
to have loved. Today, my challenge is to love regardless of the fear of experiencing
that type of pain, again. In truth, it does take some courage to try and love again when
you have known that kind of pain from such a loss. But I think that is a better path than
just than sex with a closed heart and just substituting some "kink" to make or keep it
interesting.

Or is that too much of a suggestion for the "prudish" ? One of the things
that I have learned in my years is that after a few years of being in a
relationship, you might want to try "spicing things up". Even so, it is my
opinion that deploying such a tactic "might" be more of a distraction from
the real work that needs to be done for a long term relationship. Of which
takes me back to Scott Peck's book, again. If such "spice" were used as
a type of "carrot and stick" approach for the conscious motivation of doing
the actual work, that might be another matter.

Maybe some day I'll get lucky enough to find out about that, myself ?

On the other hand, if sex is all that some of the others in this community want, they can
stop wasting their time here with "conscious thought" and go to another social networking
site that does cater to just getting laid with a " great aerobic exercise".

Example FYI:
FetLife is a FREE Social Network for the BDSM & fetish community.
Similar to Facebook and MySpace but run by kinksters
https://fetlife.com/

Even so, it appears to me that many that are into "fetishes" do so with an "Open Heart"
and are in a "collard relationship", (as they call it). Of which again takes it all back to
being willing to "do the work" that it takes to develop a "meaningful relationship".

One of the things that has
delighted me is that this bulletin board has kept a clean and serious
discussion of the subject, with out a bunch of strange and or perverse
posts.

There is little doubt that Barry has more than a little to do with that
and so I have to say, "Thank you Barry".

I'm delighted to see this interesting and juicy question/discussion thread come back to life! Dixon's explanation of it's second cumming is spot on:



This thread was started over 2 years ago and has hosted a lively, frank and thoughtful interchange by many community members. It's worth a scan of the prior responses on the website.

To address MarilynO's concern:



While this is definitely a "community oriented" site it is not a "family oriented" site. It is intended for adults. I haven't put up any age restrictions because they are meaningless. Kids can easily access vast amounts of porn elsewhere on the net, with and without attempts of age verification.

And regarding "community", this site is intended for the "conscious community". A good discussion of this use of "conscious" is here. What's more, this is our Conscious Relationship category. A frank/conscious discussion of the relationship of sex and love is very appropriate here! I invite anybody uncomfortable with this topic to stop reading now and click the (this button is active).

My own is "sex for the sake of sex" and "making love" are two end point of continuum. They are both different and mingle quite easily. It's quite possible to feel genuine love in the moment with someone you are having casual sex with (remember, love is all there is!) just as it's quite possible to have "sex for the sake of sex" with someone you love. I've enjoyed both!

How do you navigate this continuum? Can sex for sex sake lead to love, as it did for me? Do you just abstain if you are not in a committed relationship? What if it's been years since you have been in one? Have you successfully navigated the treacherous waters of sex with others while in a committed relationship? Do you think sex for sex's sake is getting a bum rap and it's really a pure expression of universal love while being great aerobic exercise? :bigkiss:

[Dixon]

I am not prudish, but...

I've seen/heard a lot of sentences begin this way, and this phrase is always followed by an expression of prudishness!

I think it is really inappropriate to post this kind of thing on a community website. Such conversation has its place, but good grief, I don't think this is it. There are plenty of sexy places on line that aren't community and family oriented.

See, I told you there'd be prudishness coming up! The implication that there is something unsavory, even harmful, in straightforward, joyous expression of sexuality is, as far as I can see, just dead wrong, although I'd be happy to hear you or anyone make a case for it.

Similarly, the implication that it would somehow be harmful to children to be exposed to honest talk about sex is also, I think, baloney. In fact, I'd argue that the most common form of child sexual abuse is to inculcate kids with a shame-based attitude toward sex, and the most common way of doing that is to censor out sexual images and straightforward talk about sex as if it's something nasty, disgusting, toxic, sinful. Such sex-negativity is perversion, and tends to result in people who are repressed and repressive, unfulfilled, ashamed of their natural feelings and desires, and, possibly, more inclined to be violent, materialistic, and alienated.

You're entitled to be prudish if you want, but when you try to shame or censor me for speaking freely, you're asking for a sermon!

[Shandi]

Somewhere I learned that if the word "but" follows a statement, it negates the statement.
It may not always be true, but in this case it seems accurate because of the statements
that follow.

[Shandi]

I'm delighted to see this interesting and juicy question/discussion thread come back to life! Dixon's explanation of it's second cumming is spot on:



This thread was started over 2 years ago and has hosted a lively, frank and thoughtful interchange by many community members. It's worth a scan of the prior responses on the website.

To address MarilynO's concern:



While this is definitely a "community oriented" site it is not a "family oriented" site. It is intended for adults. I haven't put up any age restrictions because they are meaningless. Kids can easily access vast amounts of porn elsewhere on the net, with and without attempts of age verification.

And regarding "community", this site is intended for the "conscious community". A good discussion of this use of "conscious" is here. What's more, this is our Conscious Relationship category. A frank/conscious discussion of the relationship of sex and love is very appropriate here! I invite anybody uncomfortable with this topic to stop reading now and click the (this button is active).

My own is "sex for the sake of sex" and "making love" are two end point of continuum. They are both different and mingle quite easily. It's quite possible to feel genuine love in the moment with someone you are having casual sex with (remember, love is all there is!) just as it's quite possible to have "sex for the sake of sex" with someone you love. I've enjoyed both!

How do you navigate this continuum? Can sex for sex sake lead to love, as it did for me? Do you just abstain if you are not in a committed relationship? What if it's been years since you have been in one? Have you successfully navigated the treacherous waters of sex with others while in a committed relationship? Do you think sex for sex's sake is getting a bum rap and it's really a pure expression of universal love while being great aerobic exercise? :bigkiss:

We are sexual beings, and as we know, even a promise to be monogamous "til death do us part" doesn't seem to stop the biological and emotional attraction to others. Even if we agree to an "open" relationship, fear and insecurity can step in, and the relationship ends.

Although I've never been in one, I've often thought that a commune makes sense, like the one Rashnish created.
People living together, while working, eating, sleeping, creating, meditating, singing together. They had a way to identify their sexual openness with a particular color of beads. This doesn't mean there wouldn't still be some possessiveness, jealously or fear, but at least the ground rules were more realistic. They had a choice to live in a way that offered more freedom to love with the heart and body, without fear of judgment.

Primitive cultures don't seem to have the hang ups we do, until they get indoctrinated with the "sin" concept. So, it really depends on what we've been taught, and then what we've been able to see through to make our own choices.

I think many people probably restrain their desire to act because of judgment, and or consequences, but then we have some great examples where even our leaders throw caution to the wind, in favor of the experience of the moment (s).

[Shandi]

I see that "sex" is listed right along with "breathing, etc." Doesn't seem like
we can live without that.
I know that we can live without sex, but it is listed there, right along with
breathing. hmmmm? Are they equally important?

[mykil]

Good Morning Folks! Can we just talk about sex now? I have been waiting like TWO FRIGGIN YEARS FOR THiS! I have had a lot of sex since then, and I mean allot, can we just talk about our feelings for a bit as well? Oh WoW I did miss you guys. Dix Ole Man let’s here about you last endeavor! Shandi you are still fine as fuck love! Everyone else, Mindy... hmmm yeah let’s talk sex for the sake of sex!

[Shandi]

Good Morning Folks! Can we just talk about sex now? I have been waiting like TWO FRIGGIN YEARS FOR THiS! I have had a lot of sex since then, and I mean allot, can we just talk about our feelings for a bit as well? Oh WoW I did miss you guys. Dix Ole Man let’s here about you last endeavor! Shandi you are still fine as fuck love! Everyone else, Mindy... hmmm yeah let’s talk sex for the sake of sex!

Ah...o.k. you want us to talk about our feelings about sex. Well, the first time I had sex was on my wedding night, yep, I was a young Catholic virgin. My husband and I didn't know much about it, but we managed to do "it" anyway. I liked it a lot, and could barely walk the next day! I didn't know what an orgasm was, wasn't expecting one, and hadn't had one.

That was o.k. because I loved my husband, and it was great being naked together, even if it was in the dark. We continued to have sex this way, and I had two children before I decided that the Church wasn't going to rule my life, much less my sex life. My husband was Italian, and wanted it every chance he got. With two babies, and no help, my desire for sex waned. We still had it, but it was very routine, and I had very little energy to do it.

After a few years passed, I took a Human Sexuality course, and learned many things that I didn't know. It was the early 70's, and there was lots of information on orgasm. I tried several of the suggestions, and our sex life got better. I wanted him to take the class, but he refused. He was a lot more traditional Catholic than I was. I'd been roped in as a 10 year old. Prior to that I had very little parental supervision or indoctrination. Now, I realize that it was a good thing~

My values were shifting about a lot of things, as I was exposed to various sexual lifestyles, along with being introduced to cannabis by my brother. We attended "clothing optional" parties, and I loved the way people were able to get beyond superficial conversation, when they were naked. I also experienced a variety of sexual partners, and realized that there was a lot more to sex than I'd been experiencing.

Eighteen years later, I divorced my husband, not because I didn't love him, but because my values had changed, and his had remained the same. He was focused on the material world, and it was his way of proving himself. I wasn't into it because I saw the superficiality of the game.

I continued to have many sexual partners, some with strangers and some with friends. I lived with a couple of them, but I never felt the same kind of love I had for my husband. We had been friends since grade school, and he really was a great guy. He still is, and he remarried a year after our divorce...to a very conservative Catholic woman. He told me "I'd never marry a wild woman again!"

I've been told that I'm a "free spirit". To me that means that I look to myself for answers, and act according to what I think will work for me. At this stage of my life, I don't feel the sexual attraction, although I can still appreciate a good looking man or woman. My impulse at this time is to photograph them, rather than have sex with them. So, I guess you could say that sex has taken a back seat to my passion for photography.

Whether it's a person, an animal or a flower, that's when I feel aroused and alive! I lose track of time when I'm in that mode.

I'm very glad that I've had a variety of sexual encounters in my lifetime, and have no regrets.

[Toxic Reverend]

Good Morning Folks! Can we just talk about sex now? I have been waiting like TWO FRIGGIN YEARS FOR THiS! I have had a lot of sex since then, and I mean allot, can we just talk about our feelings for a bit as well? Oh WoW I did miss you guys. Dix Ole Man let’s here about you last endeavor! Shandi you are still fine as fuck love! Everyone else, Mindy... hmmm yeah let’s talk sex for the sake of sex!

Waiting two years. Ouch. After these two suggestions, I am editing
a few things that might be of interest to you on this subject.

Here are two other choices. You might want to check them both out:

1:

FetLife is a FREE Social Network for the BDSM & fetish community.
Similar to Facebook and MySpace but run by kinksters
https://fetlife.com/

2:
Sexploration with Monika - San Francisco Radio Show
My personal Favorite Show
You can have an Orgasm for 15 minutes!!!
Posted at
https://sexplorationwithmonika.libsy...ic-meditation-

Please be nice to my friend Monika. She
actually had me on her show a month or two ago.
But that is another story. She is very frank, out spoken
and intelligent. "Talking" about sex is what she ia all about.


From one perspective there is the issue of "safety". It does not
seem to be too well known that condoms DO NOT Protect You From HPV (vernal warts).
The Center for Disease Control has some good articles about this. You have a Fifty-Fifty
Chance with EACH new Sexual Contact. Most People Do Not Know They Have Warts
(Explain in a CDC Article that is pasted into a web page at )> The Truth About Vernal Warts

That said, on to the "mechanics" of it:

If a woman deploys the "Squeeze Technique", she can "Train the Snake". Or to
put it more politely, train a young man to be a "Stud". This often results in a many
having multiple orgasms on a single erection while he is younger. And that ability
usually fades by the time he is middle aged.

The "Squeeze Technique" is when a woman grasps the base of the penis when
the testes tighten up, just before ejaculation and squeezes. Thus preventing the
man from ejaculating. He might loose some of the erection, but a skilled "trainer"
can usually restore him to a complete erection, with out his having to ejaculate, until
the "session" or training has been done for awhile. The most common use of
the "Squeeze Technique" is for training men that have a condition called "premature
ejaculation".

Or cultures use what is called a "Cock Ring". It is fitted to a mans penis, tightly around
the base of the penis and helps to prevent ejaculation.

Regardless, even when a young man is "trained" in this manner and does develop the
ability to have multiple orgasms on a single erection, it is not very "common". and the
majority of them that do, loose that ability by middle age.

Being that I am now 52, do not bother asking me for any demonstrations. If you think
that I am just telling stories, do some R&D on the Internet. Use search terms like
"men multiple orgasms on single erection".

Now here is "the real deal";

"The quality of the best orgasms that I have ever had
equaled the depth of the emotional commitment".

This does not mean that I have to be in a deeply emotionally
committed relationship to have a good orgasm. Though the
orgasms that really "rocked my world" always were.

And for myself, I want the quality more than the quantity.

End of Sermon.
Hey Dixom can I get an "Amen" ?

Blessings,

The Toxic Reverend Google profile
https://profiles.google.com/toxicreverend
Toxic Reverend Google + Profile
https://plus.google.com/111485701979929741583/posts

[Toxic Reverend]

You posted "Rashnish" but must have meant "Rajneesh". The "j" does have an "sh" sound.

I was there in 1984. Whewn you were new to the commune, you got two red beads until
the STD tests came back. If you past the test, you had a choice of a green bead, a blue bead
or a red bead. In my mind, green was "I am looking and wanting (I'm horny), blue was
"ask me, I might (but not really looking)" and red was "Thanks but I am in a closed relationship
and or I am not interested or looking".

It was a long time ago. Maybe it was one red bead when you were new and two red
beads if you were not "available". anyway, you should get the idea. Go figure.
I'll have to give some old memories a bit of thought and see if I can recall which
was what.

Before he ascended (died), "Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh" changed his name to Osho .

A decent video about the commune is posted on Youtube at;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cDgOf2Om28

If that (the concepts) interest you,
I had posted a blog (as a rough draft) about the commune a couple of years ago at
one of my "alternate" (and rather anonymous) profiles, titled;

Osho : The "Love Guru" and Non-lethal Biological Weapons

We are sexual beings, and as we know, even a promise to be monogamous "til death do us part" doesn't seem to stop the biological and emotional attraction to others. Even if we agree to an "open" relationship, fear and insecurity can step in, and the relationship ends.

Although I've never been in one, I've often thought that a commune makes sense, like the one Rashnish created.
People living together, while working, eating, sleeping, creating, meditating, singing together. They had a way to identify their sexual openness with a particular color of beads. This doesn't mean there wouldn't still be some possessiveness, jealously or fear, but at least the ground rules were more realistic. They had a choice to live in a way that offered more freedom to love with the heart and body, without fear of judgment.

Primitive cultures don't seem to have the hang ups we do, until they get indoctrinated with the "sin" concept. So, it really depends on what we've been taught, and then what we've been able to see through to make our own choices.

I think many people probably restrain their desire to act because of judgment, and or consequences, but then we have some great examples where even our leaders throw caution to the wind, in favor of the experience of the moment (s).

[Dixon]

...Can we just talk about sex now?...Dix Ole Man let’s here about you last endeavor!...

My last sexual endeavor? OK. It was pretty much the same as the one before it, and the one before that, and the one before that, and... It involved salacious images on my computer screen and a bit of lube.

Or did you mean you wanted to hear about my last endeavor with another person?

[Shandi]

Q: Can sex for sex sake lead to love, as it did for me?

A:
According to the book "The Road Less Traveled" by Scott Peck, "yes" How ever,
Scott Peck presents it as "can the myth of romantic love lead to real love" ?

The basic concept is that the "Myth of Romantic Love" usually lasts from
between six months to a couple of years. Then, after you "fall out of love"
and the mystical romance feelings are gone or going away, you have to
actually "work" at developing "Real Love". At which point you can end up
with the experience of "Falling in Love" again with the same person.

One of the problems is that it does take two people to be consciously aware
and both willing to "Work At It".

I learned this from one of the happiest married couples that I have ever known.
After watching them laugh while they fought, I b badgered them as to how they
ever managed to develop enough to do that. Their reply was the before mentioned
book and that they learned of it and had used it in "marriage counseling". Along
with the companion "work book" titled, "Exploring the Road Less Traveled".

Frankly, I still have a lot to learn about being able to laugh and argue in the same
breath. To this day, over twenty years later, it still amazes me.

For myself, I do not have much of a track record with a "long term stable relationship"
to really have any bragging rights. But at least I have tried and that is better than never
having to of tried. I had spent 15 years in one relationship with a woman that had a son
my age. That ended about twenty years ago. Maybe one of my problems is that she
did leave such a high bench mark. Still, it is better to have loved and lost than never
to have loved. Today, my challenge is to love regardless of the fear of experiencing
that type of pain, again. In truth, it does take some courage to try and love again when
you have known that kind of pain from such a loss. But I think that is a better path than
just than sex with a closed heart and just substituting some "kink" to make or keep it
interesting.

Or is that too much of a suggestion for the "prudish" ? One of the things
that I have learned in my years is that after a few years of being in a
relationship, you might want to try "spicing things up". Even so, it is my
opinion that deploying such a tactic "might" be more of a distraction from
the real work that needs to be done for a long term relationship. Of which
takes me back to Scott Peck's book, again. If such "spice" were used as
a type of "carrot and stick" approach for the conscious motivation of doing
the actual work, that might be another matter.

Maybe some day I'll get lucky enough to find out about that, myself ?

On the other hand, if sex is all that some of the others in this community want, they can
stop wasting their time here with "conscious thought" and go to another social networking
site that does cater to just getting laid with a " great aerobic exercise".

Example FYI:
FetLife is a FREE Social Network for the BDSM & fetish community.
Similar to Facebook and MySpace but run by kinksters
https://fetlife.com/

Even so, it appears to me that many that are into "fetishes" do so with an "Open Heart"
and are in a "collard relationship", (as they call it). Of which again takes it all back to
being willing to "do the work" that it takes to develop a "meaningful relationship".

One of the things that has
delighted me is that this bulletin board has kept a clean and serious
discussion of the subject, with out a bunch of strange and or perverse
posts.

There is little doubt that Barry has more than a little to do with that
and so I have to say, "Thank you Barry".

I'd like to see some people define what "Real Love" means to them. (aside from a dictionary version)

Some people are unable to be "intimate" because it usually involves a vulnerability
that they fear. Therefore, sexuality without that risk is preferable to them, but of
course it's still no guarantee that they wont find themselves wanting more intimacy
from those sex partners. Seems like the desire to "feel" loved is universal?

And to go a bit further, a partner may feel love towards the other, but the beloved
doesn't "feel" loved, even though they may be sexually satisfied.

I remember a conversation with a friend when I was in my 20's. She was sharing that
her husband's desire for her to show love was for her to cook for him. He was Italian,
and love was equated with preparing and serving food. She had no interest in cooking,
and although she showed her love in other ways, it wasn't enough for him.

If we meet someone that we're strongly attracted to, it may feel like "love at first sight", but in
reality, can we love someone without having any experience of them, other than a
general love we may feel for all beings?

I know people who've met online, and had wonderful conversations that led them to believe
that they had found "the one" (an illusion in my perspective), only to feel completely
disappointed with the in person meeting. One friend had the experience of "falling in love"
because the man sent beautiful poems and letters, and even flew across the US to meet her.
Before they met, she told me "it's a done deal; we're getting married". This woman was in her 50's, and had
been searching for many years for "the one". It turned out as you guessed....he was different
than his words had led her to believe, and vice versa.

Years ago when I began a new relationship, a friend said "you're so brave to step into this". I
couldn't relate to what she was saying. It didn't take bravery to respond to attraction. But I
understand the "fear" of being hurt. The problem is that we can't escape pain, as much as we'd
like to. It can come from a lover, parent, child, friend, or pet. So why not enjoy the pleasure?

My perspective is to go fearlessly where my heart/and or body is drawn.

You answered your own question in your first sentence better than anyone else could.

A question I'd like some responses to, in addition to the one about "real love" is what do
people consider a "meaningful relationship"?

Seems like there would be a variety of answers.

[Thad]

A line in a song brings up my sentiment fairly well, "Thank god you can't be oversexed again"
I believe there are more casualties from sex than there are from war.

If you want to reduce the problems of the world to the most common denominator then everything that is wrong in the world is a direct result of what men and women do together.

therefore: solving the problems of the world is directly related to what men and women do together and this brings up more than the recreational value of the subject.

Ive seen something that explains so much. I have a very fertile imagination and have collected much for creative purposes, when this begins to perk I also get sexy feelings, if I go with the sex its three days before the creativity begins to flow again I have heard it referenced as Kundalini energy, its very odd that a completely different mythological source references this as the serpent in the garden and getting this wrong might have much to do with why America has so much brutality wrapped up in its promise.

There is a great cultural wrong perpetuated by women against men. We do not bring this upon ourselves that all of a sudden way sooner than we can do anything about it, an impulse that requires another to resolve becomes an overwhelmingly uncomfortable distraction and from this we become labeled as superficial and worthy of contempt. Our interests are solely to resolve a mere appetite.

When this becomes mixed with the socially acceptable allowance " Love" Everything goes Haywire, The woman's need to address the matter of pregnancy countered by mans aching need and there is no where else to go for resolution.

Perhaps this is where the thought of the irresistible force meeting the immovable object comes into being and getting this wrong becomes the seed of war

I think sex should be considered vitamin S and a finding for a minimum daily allowance be determined.

New standards for a saner world

[Barry]

One of the things that has
delighted me is that this bulletin board has kept a clean and serious
discussion of the subject, with out a bunch of strange and or perverse
posts.

There is little doubt that Barry has more than a little to do with that
and so I have to say, "Thank you Barry".

My last sexual endeavor? OK. It was pretty much the same as the one before it, and the one before that, and the one before that, and... It involved salacious images on my computer screen and a bit of lube.

Or did you mean you wanted to hear about my last endeavor with another person?

Oh well...

[Thad]

The Harrad Experiment (1973) is a movie about a fictional Harrad College where the students learn about sexuality and experiment with each other. Based on the 1962 book of the same name by Robert Rimmer, this movie deals with the concept of free love during the height of the sexual revolution which took place in the United States during the late 1960s and early 1970s.
The movie stars James Whitmore and Tippi Hedren as the married couple who run the school, and includes a young Don Johnson as one of the students who tries to go beyond the rules, and Melanie Griffith (Hedren's real life daughter) in one of her first film roles.


The Harrad experiment uncut still revolutionary

[Dixon]

I'd like to see some people define what "Real Love" means to them.

For me, "real love" in the romantic sense means being so attracted to someone on several levels, and caring so much about them, that you can't imagine living without them. It's a kind of addiction. It's not the same as lust; therefore there's not really such a thing as "love at first sight"; it's lust at first sight, though my experience has shown that what starts out as pure lust can change into real, deep love.

...her husband's desire for her to show love was for her to cook for him. He was Italian, and love was equated with preparing and serving food. She had no interest in cooking, and although she showed her love in other ways, it wasn't enough for him.

I don't suppose he was willing to show his love for her by cooking for her. Sexism rears its ugly head once again.

I know people who've met online, and had wonderful conversations that led them to believe that they had found "the one" (an illusion in my perspective), only to feel completely disappointed with the in person meeting.

I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw in a magazine once. A man and a woman meet in person for the first time after carrying on an email exchange. She: "You're not tall, dark and handsome!" He: "You're not thirteen years old!"

And, I agree with you that "the one" is an illusion. If there were only one person who was a "perfect" match for us, our chance of finding them in a six-billion plus population would be nil.

A question I'd like some responses to, in addition to the one about "real love" is what do people consider a "meaningful relationship"?

Every relationship, from being deeply in love, to having enjoyable sex with an acquaintance, to smiling at a stranger on the street, is meaningful, albeit with different meanings. I feel pity and, I admit, a bit of disgust toward those who are so focused on finding the big romantic "Relationship" that they miss the beauty of all the other relationships they have, or could have.

[Sylph]

From the movie: "Real people make love with their minds and their understanding...not just their bodies"
Was this movie based loosely on Kinsey?

[Toxic Reverend]

A question I'd like some responses to, in addition to the one about "real love" is what do
people consider a "meaningful relationship"?

Seems like there would be a variety of answers.

The best descriptions that I have ever seen come from the second section of the book
The Road Less Traveled^[2] published in 1978, and written by Scott Peck.

The second section does start off with the comment that "love is very complex"
and can best be described by first explaining what "Love" is NOT.

Now I do not agree with everything that Scott Peck says. But since the book
was on a Best Sellers List for over ten years, most libraries seem to have a copy.
Peck says that one would be better off addicted to drugs rather than "Love"
(or sex / people) and with the misconception that you were "In Love" while you
are actually in an unhealthy relationship of "Co-Dependance".

To quote Wkipedia;

In the second section, Peck considers the nature of love, which he considers
the driving force behind spiritual growth. The section mainly attacks a number
of misconceptions about love: that romantic love exists (he considers it a very
destructive myth), that it is about dependency, that true love is not "falling in love".',
it is a feeling. Instead "true" love is about the extending of one's ego boundaries to
include another, and about the spiritual nurturing of another.

End of quote from Wikipedia at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Sco..._Less_Traveled

[Shandi]

For me, "real love" in the romantic sense means being so attracted to someone on several levels, and caring so much about them, that you can't imagine living without them. It's a kind of addiction. It's not the same as lust; therefore there's not really such a thing as "love at first sight"; it's lust at first sight, though my experience has shown that what starts out as pure lust can change into real, deep love.

"I don't suppose he was willing to show his love for her by cooking for her. Sexism rears its ugly head once again."

He was continuing in the tradition of his family where the women catered to the men. I married an
Italian-Irish man who was raised in the Italian family, and I saw first hand how it was. My husband
never cooked, and in the beginning of our marriage, he took me to his mom's house so that she
could teach me how to make pasta sauce. This was a process that took hours, because the sauce
needed to be stirred every so often.

For years, we never went anywhere on Sunday because the sauce had to be made. After about 10 years
I said "If you want sauce every Sunday, you'll have to make it." He got over that tradition quickly!

I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw in a magazine once. A man and a woman meet in person for the first time after carrying on an email exchange. She: "You're not tall, dark and handsome!" He: "You're not thirteen years old!"

And, I agree with you that "the one" is an illusion. If there were only one person who was a "perfect" match for us, our chance of finding them in a six-billion plus population would be nil.
Every relationship, from being deeply in love, to having enjoyable sex with an acquaintance, to smiling at a stranger on the street, is meaningful, albeit with different meanings. I feel pity and, I admit, a bit of disgust toward those who are so focused on finding the big romantic "Relationship" that they miss the beauty of all the other relationships they have, or could have.

I agee, and I've had meaningful exchanges with perfect strangers at various times in my life, that I really
treasure. Being truly present with another is such a gift.

[Dixon]

...vernal warts...

Vernal warts? Are those warts you get in the springtime?

Hey Dixom can I get an "Amen" ?

Uh...on what, exactly? Your statement that your orgasms' quality is highly correlated with depth of love? My mileage differs a bit. My best orgasms are the ones I give myself, since I'm so experienced at it, but of course solo sex is lonely. I'd rather be with a woman (where there is mutual attraction, of course). Presumably due to the fact that I've been single pretty much my whole life and therefore my tallywhacker is accustomed to the ministrations of my own hand, I haven't orgasmed with a partner for years. That's actually more of an advantage than a disadvantage. It decreases a lady's concern about disease, and allows me to remain aroused for as many hours as the lady would like, unlike so many guys who shoot their wad, then fall asleep, leaving the poor woman high and dry.

What "gets me off" is giving pleasure to my lover. I get so empathically "tuned in" to her that her pleasure is mine. If I give her an orgasm (or 50 of them), I'm right there with her, feeling her pleasure as my own. In fact, more than one woman has accused me of being telepathic, LOL! And sex play without orgasm is well worth it, too--the feelings of closeness, trust, surrender, playfulness, unshame, and yes, love. I miss being in love, though it's scary.

Damn--if I keep writing this sort of stuff, I'm gonna have to find me a girlfriend!

[Toxic Reverend]

Dixon;
In a prior quote you had mentioned giving a "sermon" because of a "prudish" remark
and that you felt "shamed" by their comment. So I gave another sermon.


The prior warts reference link goes to a copy of a CDC report on the HPV virus
(warts) that is believed to cause Cervical Cancer in woman and tha CDC claims
that you have a 50 / 50 chance of contacting them with every new sexual contact,
that condoms do not protect you and that many people that have them are
unaware of it because their immune system keeps them in check to the point
that they are very small. Doctors can detect them with a special dye and a
type of ultraviolet light from a "Woods Lamp" (it has a special filter). All of
that information from the Center For Disease Control is at
The Truth About Vernal Warts

After reading your comment below, you might want to save your "Amen's" and
consider this, but please do not get offended. I have been saying this for years
because it does apply to myself, too.

"When the groom is ready, the bride will appear". After all, just
as water seeks it's own level, "life can be a bitch'n beach, but then ya might
marry one of the two".

Just for the sake of clarity, I have been taking a break from relationships for
the simple reason that I believe the biggest room that I have is the one for improvement.
The better I become, the higher quality of a mate I should attract. I got to a point that
I realized that if I kept doing the same things in the same ways, I really could not expect
different results. And that when it really gets down to it, the only person I can actually
try to change is myself. That does take some "introspection" with this topic of
"sex for the sake of sex". Earlier on (some years ago), I had to start with my very
definition of "Love" and expel the "misconceptions" that I had held as truths. But I
was unaware of that, until I started looking for an actual definition. Please see my
prior post (Sermon) on the book "The Road Less Traveled", by Scott Peck.

Blessings - The Toxic Reverend

Vernal warts? Are those warts you get in the springtime?


Uh...on what, exactly? Your statement that your orgasms' quality is highly correlated with depth of love? My mileage differs a bit. My best orgasms are the ones I give myself, since I'm so experienced at it, but of course solo sex is lonely. I'd rather be with a woman (where there is mutual attraction, of course). Presumably due to the fact that I've been single pretty much my whole life and therefore my tallywhacker is accustomed to the ministrations of my own hand, I haven't orgasmed with a partner for years. That's actually more of an advantage than a disadvantage. It decreases a lady's concern about disease, and allows me to remain aroused for as many hours as the lady would like, unlike so many guys who shoot their wad, then fall asleep, leaving the poor woman high and dry.

What "gets me off" is giving pleasure to my lover. I get so empathically "tuned in" to her that her pleasure is mine. If I give her an orgasm (or 50 of them), I'm right there with her, feeling her pleasure as my own. In fact, more than one woman has accused me of being telepathic, LOL! And sex play without orgasm is well worth it, too--the feelings of closeness, trust, surrender, playfulness, unshame, and yes, love. I miss being in love, though it's scary.

Damn--if I keep writing this sort of stuff, I'm gonna have to find me a girlfriend!

[Dixon]

...please do not get offended...

We have a little misunderstanding here, Rev. You seem to have interpreted my wisecrack about "vernal" warts ("Vernal warts? Are those warts you get in the springtime?") as my being offended somehow by your discussion of warts. In fact, my remark was just a joking reference to your misuse of the word "vernal" which means "of, in, or appropriate to spring". The word you meant is "venereal". I guess I should have mentioned that by way of clarity. Be assured that you have not offended me, Bro'.

[Thad]

If you want to reduce the problems of the world to the most common denominator, then this:

Everything that is wrong in the world is a direct result of what men and women do together.

Therefore:

Solving the problems of the world is a direct result of what men and women do together.

This is a little bit of what I meant by the above and is more likely than not the best bang for the buck of "The Body Politic"


'Sex strike' success in Philippine village: UNHCR

AFP – Fri, Sep 16, 2011

Women in the southern Philippines brought peace to their strife-torn village by threatening to withhold sex if their men kept fighting, the UN refugee agency reported Friday.
The "sex strike" in rural Dado village on the often lawless southern island of Mindanao in July helped end tensions and bring some prosperity to the 102 families living there, said UNHCR national officer Rico Salcedo.
"The area is in a town which is subject to conflict, family feuds, land disputes. The idea came personally from the women," Salcedo told AFP.
The idea was conceived by a group of women who had set up a sewing business but found that they could not deliver their products because the village road was closed by the threat of violence, Salcedo said.
Sporadic shooting incidents between men in the village had occurred especially near the road, the UNHCR said.
"There had been a string of clan conflicts. You would have a number of men who would go against another family. There were scattered incidents of shooting at each other," said UNHCR staffer Tom Temprosa.
The sewing group's leader, Hasna Kandatu, said they warned their husbands they would be cut off from sex if they continued causing trouble.
"If you go there (to fight), you won't be able to come back. I won't accept you," Kandatu recalled telling her husband, in a video on the UNHCR website.
Her husband, Lengs Kupong, recalled his wife telling him: "If you do bad things, you will be cut off, here," he said, motioning below his waist.
Feuds between Muslim clans over land, money or political influence have been a major source of violence in the southern Philippines, helping fuel a Muslim separatist insurgency and brutal crimes, rights groups and scholars have said.
In the worst case of such feuds, members of an influential Muslim clan are being tried for allegedly murdering 57 people in the south in 2009 to keep a rival family from challenging them in local elections.

https://news.yahoo.com/sex-strike-su...170240575.html

[Dixon]

'Sex strike' success in Philippine village: UNHCR
Women in the southern Philippines brought peace to their strife-torn village by threatening to withhold sex if their men kept fighting...

This is the same story as in the ancient Greek play Lysistrata (was it Euripides or Sophocles? I don't remember). I wonder if these Filipinas heard of Lysistrata, or came up with the idea on their own. Either way, I think it's great. I wish women all over the world would follow suit.

[theindependenteye]

>>>This is the same story as in the ancient Greek play Lysistrata (was it Euripides or Sophocles? I don't remember). I wonder if these Filipinas heard of Lysistrata, or came up with the idea on their own. Either way, I think it's great.

Aristophanes. A comedy written at the height of the Peloponnesian War, which he bitterly opposed and which was ultimately devastating to Athens — the cradle of democracy, true, and also a merciless imperial power.

-Conrad

[Joseph Askren]

Welcome to sonoma county !

Hmmm ok it went like this, I meet a wonderful little Mexican woman, she invites me over and we talk, she takes a shower and comes out in a sexy lingerie. I am enthused to say the least. She asks if I like porn, II don’t know what to say I don’t want to say yes and I don’t want to lie either. I say it depends and she sayz the same thing, then she hits play on her DVD and porn comes on and she is all over me, while I am all over her. I start to finger her and then without even thinking I go own on her and make her cum in about a minute. She sayz that was wonderful and now you have to go I need to go out and do something important! I am like what? She sayz I need to leave and I am like I heard you I just don’t know what to say. She sayz she is sorry and to make sure I call her again really soon. I am like what do you want me to call you? I felt soo used in between laughing all the way home! HA!

[Toxic Reverend]

Leather - music video by +Tori Amos
Her opening lyrics are:
"Look, I'm standing naked before you, don't you want more than my sex?"
https://youtu.be/iDuwCiOXHC0

There is a great line from Tori Amos' song called "Leather": "Look, I'm standing naked before you, don't you want more than my sex?"

How many of us have, at one time or another, felt there was something lacking from a sexual encounter? Perhaps the sex was physically pleasurable but there was a strong sense that it was all just on the surface, that there was potential for something so much deeper. Feeling a void, a longing.

On the flip side, how many of us, in our intimate sexual encounters, have experienced what can only be described as a dance with the Divine? While in the naked embrace of a loved one, we rise up with serpentine movements, transcend our bodies, swim in a sea of energy, love and light, kiss the face of god/dess with head thrown back, and find ourselves with our breath literally taken away...sharing an amazing spiritual experience with the one before us...

In this dance with the divine, there is a mutual play of energy. Two (or more) individuals meet each other - one does not feel the need to press, the other does not feel the need to withdraw - both are sharing in the flow, reading and responding to the other. There is subtlety, respect, love, exchange, play, balance. And there is fulfillment.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this...I guess to say that I've experienced both scenarios (and in between), and find myself not just wanting sex for the sake of the physical experience, not just wanting someone else to want me for sex. I enjoy the deeper experience, the spiritual experience that can accompany it. I love the dance!

Please feel free to share your thoughts.

[Ray Tuley]

...Sex is as sensual as ever, the lust you can fee land the excitement it can extend to ones soul is as real as life is, the only true thing we have on this earth is love. It is the only thing everyone has in common. There is not one person on this earth that has not felt love, or been affected by love in one way or another. If love is alive then it is truly a=our god!!!!! ...

I have to disagree with your statement that "there is not one person on this planet who has not felt love." My last relationship ended very painfully because it never occurred to me that the woman I was involved with did not have the capacity to feel anything, including , and especially, love. During the course of this relationship, I would do things like, rub her feet when she had been on them all day, have a hot bath waiting for her when she got home, fix her breakfast in bed, etc.

These are all things I did because a.) I loved her, and b.) I thought that women appreciated these things. I could never figure out why she never seemed to notice my efforts, and on the few occasions she did, she downplayed them with criticism. On more than one occasion, after marathon sex, she told me that I was " by far the best" she'd ever had. A man of my age generally takes statements such as this with a grain of salt, so to speak, and that is what I did.

Anyway, I was heading towards becoming homeless, and I really needed her to be there for me, but instead, on the last night at my house, she chose instead to have another man come spend the night with her at her place, but made sure I found out about it. I was devastated, and I haven't been with a woman now since that night some 9 months ago. Since she would not answer my texts or calls, I was left with nothing but questions: why, who,when???

Then one day I stumbled upon a story similar to mine and there was suddenly answers to a lot of questions. They came in a response to the story and it used the word "sociopath" liberally and numerously. I found a website called "sociopath world" and there was a description of my ex that fit her to a tee. I had never felt pain like this woman had given me, because I fell for her hard and loved her deeply. Deeply enough that I'm still very fragile and afraid of meeting anyone.

After reading the profile of a sociopath, and months of reflection, I have reached a place where I feel extreme sorrow for her because she cannot ever,possibly begin to feel what true love is. What is even more sad is that she is raising an 11 year old daughter to be just like her. According to all accounts there is no treatment for this disorder, and the people who have come into contact with a sociopath get left to suffer through the pain of loss, betrayal, and then apathy that the sociopath leaves them with.

Is she the lucky one because she can walk away with no empathy for the pain of her victims? Some would say yes. I don't think so. If I was not so devastated, so hurt by this beautiful person I gave all my love to it would only serve to illustrate that I never loved her enough, that I had no appreciation of her OR love, and that my emotion was not genuine. I believe that we can never know the light if we've never experienced the dark, and sociopaths can only feign emotion. I think it is probably the saddest thing I have ever encountered in my life. Blessed be.

[GardenGoddess]

Okay, I am finally compelled to add my opinions to this conversation.

Thad wrote: There is a great cultural wrong perpetuated by women against men. We do not bring this upon ourselves that all of a sudden way sooner than we can do anything about it, an impulse that requires another to resolve becomes an overwhelmingly uncomfortable distraction and from this we become labeled as superficial and worthy of contempt. Our interests are solely to resolve a mere appetite.

When this becomes mixed with the socially acceptable allowance " Love" Everything goes Haywire, The woman's need to address the matter of pregnancy countered by mans aching need and there is no where else to go for resolution.

Perhaps this is where the thought of the irresistible force meeting the immovable object comes into being and getting this wrong becomes the seed of war

I think sex should be considered vitamin S and a finding for a minimum daily allowance be determined."

Contrary to a very popular myth, Women have sexual needs as well. All people are different and have different needs at different times. Just because someone has a need does not mean that the person in front of them will be able to or desire to address their need. It seems immature that an adult would not be able to wait until someone else also had the desire to participate in an activity that by its nature is highly mutual. Why would you not be able to satisfy yourself in the instance of the unavailability of your preferred method?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be an erroneous thought here that all women are the same and that women don't desire or need orgasms or that their pleasure is somehow less urgent or important.

The matter of contraception is a man's issue as well. Many men I have known expect the woman to relieve them of thinking about the possibility of pregnancy. (I am over 50, so I am not sure of the prevalence of this attitude in the general population.)

If you don't want kids (or more kids), The above approach is a mistake. Once you give your sperm to me it becomes my property and I can do whatever I want with it. So maybe it's better to have some sort of friendly understanding with the person you are going to be engaging in an imitate act with.

I have met many women who claim they don't need love to have sex. Why don't you find yourself one of them instead of blaming some mythical all-woman for the hypothetical demonization of the male erection and suggesting that the possible ultimate consequence of someone wanting some love sprinkled in with their sex is what? War? Actually your attitude sounds pretty mercenary, as if women are mere instruments who in an ideal world would address the biological imperative as evidenced in the physical tumescence in front of them. If this is your attitude, I can understand why you are having trouble getting your needs met.

Who would implement the program of the minimum daily allowance of Vitamin S? Would you get a doctor's prescription based on Vitamin S anemia and go to your nearest government-subsidized house of pleasure? Or in your scenario would the nearest woman be required to submit on demand any time the wind blew?

On a more personal level, in my own life, I've been on the aching need end of the spectrum myself and found myself having to wait because my lover had other things on his mind: however, at no time did I say to myself that he should be required to satisfy me. He is not a slave to my needs, he is a human being. You've got to apply a little logic and a little human compassion to these situations. The only difference in men's and women's erections is that with women, the change in size of the sexual apparatus-that would indicate their raging excitement, is not as noticeable.

I have always been a highly sexual person, as well as a person who needs a deeply intimate connection. I am currently on a hiatus from love/sexual relationships. For now, I just have platonic friends. Also, even though I want a deeper connection when I choose to have relationships, I have found myself to be pretty unmovable on certain physical aspects of sexual behavior. For example:

My lover and I were parted for a time for various reasons. He expressed a desire to get back together for a new start, but on the same day he informed me that he would no longer be performing oral sex as his doctor had told him that there was a risk of throat cancer due to the general prevalence of the human papilloma virus (which is pretty ubiquitous, as far as my information goes, and is often asymptomatic.)

Receiving this new information, that one of our favorite activities would be taken off the list, my first thought was that he has the right to decide what he is and is not going to do. However, not wanting to regulate my life in that particular manner, I decided to just stick to our friendship, which has always been great. We have wonderful conversations about science, space, time, the universe, etc. (BTW we lived together for 8 years.)

In summary, I think the whole point is to discuss these matters in an open and honest manner and not make assumptions on the way things "should be." If two people have different ideas about what constitutes great sex, why not just be friends without trying to make it into something it's not? If prospective lovers talk about what they want from sex and from a relationship (whether it be a one night stand or a long-term arrangement) I think it could lead to experiencing more satisfaction in both arenas.

I apologize in advance if anything I have said is offensive or if I have misconstrued the meaning of a post.