SMART METER ALERT! Stop installation in Sonoma and Marin Counties!

[bythe9s]

I think Eddie is referring specifically to the post about the pipes freezing because of the smart meter turning off the hot water heater. The first I thought when I read that was that management is lying. With or without a smart meter pge has no way to reach into your house and control your devices.

[bythe9s]

yet

[daynurse]

But .... that is the plan! Hope you saw my post about how they are already doing that in New Jersey and the appliances are being designed and marketed all over the internet. YES, there is a way.

And, this is precisely WHY I am so passionate about fighting the installations in the first place. Government of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation is the real issue here and, if you are going to defend a giant corporation, you might very well be shooting yourself in the foot.

Peggy

I think Eddie is referring specifically to the post about the pipes freezing because of the smart meter turning off the hot water heater. The first I thought when I read that was that management is lying. With or without a smart meter pge has no way to reach into your house and control your devices.

[diaba]

phooph, can you tell me more about the electrics humming with the sm. I don't even have one but my neighbors is about 15 ft from my bedroom and I've been hearing a pulsing electric sound that doesn't stop when it's very quiet, usually at night.

Also started having some agitation, and lack of sleep and appetite. Thinking of having an emf expert come to the house to see if I can do anything.

[phooph]

My boom box now makes a very low electronic hum like when a station stops broadcasting and you have dead air but the radio is on. The trouble is, it is doing this when it is off. I am sitting next to it right now and it's quiet in the room so I can hear it. I have had it for 15 years and it never made a sound when it was off until after the Smart Meter was installed. When I first heard it I was concerned because it is close to where I sleep. I couldn't figure out why it would suddenly begin doing this until I heard someone on the radio mention it has been happening to them since the Smart Meter went in. Silly me didn't make the connection on my own.

Have you approached your neighbor's SM to see if the sound is coming from it?

[broadbandersnatch]

I would like to add that I read on a forum (for people who had smart meter installed) that a man who is an amateur radio enthusiast said he was having static coming in bursts that he believed coincided with the installation of the smart meter. There was also a guy who was an audiophile with a really high-end system who said he was experiencing the same thing. So for all the naysayers and tinfoil hat ridiculers,'splain this away please.

My boom box now makes a very low electronic hum like when a station stops broadcasting and you have dead air but the radio is on. The trouble is, it is doing this when it is off. I am sitting next to it right now and it's quiet in the room so I can hear it. I have had it for 15 years and it never made a sound when it was off until after the Smart Meter was installed. When I first heard it I was concerned because it is close to where I sleep. I couldn't figure out why it would suddenly begin doing this until I heard someone on the radio mention it has been happening to them since the Smart Meter went in. Silly me didn't make the connection on my own.

Have you approached your neighbor's SM to see if the sound is coming from it?

[phooph]

Smart Meters are little computers. As someone who works with computers, I can tell you that they sometimes do things they are not supposed to do. If you read the article by the computer security fellow you would note that he mentioned bugs in the firmware and other programming glitches. Smart Meters are only as smart as the people who program them and software without bugs is rare indeed because typos in code are common.

Then there are mechanical failures. One of the biggest challenges to integrated circuitry is a tiny monster call a tin whisker. Much has been put into the development of special alloys and coatings to try to prevent their occurrence, but they still can wreak havoc with anything electronic. Nasa has a sizable amount of web space dedicated to the tin whisker and its victims.

PG&E told me the SMs are not able to cut the power off. I asked if in the near future they told me no.

[Barry]

Smart Meters are little computers. As someone who works with computers, I can tell you that they sometimes do things they are not supposed to do. If you read the article by the computer security fellow you would note that he mentioned bugs in the firmware and other programming glitches. Smart Meters are only as smart as the people who program them and software without bugs is rare indeed because typos in code are common. ...

I don't know about you guys, but I never make typoes!

I would like to add that I read on a forum (for people who had smart meter installed) that a man who is an amateur radio enthusiast said he was having static coming in bursts that he believed coincided with the installation of the smart meter. There was also a guy who was an audiophile with a really high-end system who said he was experiencing the same thing. So for all the naysayers and tinfoil hat ridiculers,'splain this away please.

Regarding the buzzing, it's starting to make sense to me now! Given that smart meters are meant to be able to "talk" to your appliances, there needs to be a signal encoded into the power line downstream from the meter. Some version of that technology has been around for a long time, including being used by baby monitors. I don't think its anything dangerous, but I can imagine that it is something extra that your appliances are not expecting, and may well result in some anomalies, especially in those that are very sensitive to power and that any subtle change in their reaction is easy for you to detect ...such as any kind of audio equipment...

Is there an engineer in the house? :anyone:

[edie]

Could you elaborate what you mean Edie, by "...or something somebody said that somebody told somebody said so and so..."? I think there have been lots of documentation here.

There have been lots of documentation on both sides.

With the broken pipes, I believe its possible that the electricity was turned off after the building was flooded. I do not know anything about that building, therefore I am not able to say what happened there, but lots of people have something to say about it, then it turns into gossip.

When I talked to PG&E they told me the SM by itself is not able to cut power off, and wouldn't because it is a possible danger to people with life support etc. PG said legally they can not do that.

Appliances will be designed to monitor the electric usage- by you mostly, for you to save electricity, I was reading. I found out that the SMs are not in a long run ready to control your home. Would they ever be able to do so? Possible. (legally-no-PG said) Why then? To bug us? To get us mad? To control us? To get our money or perhaps in fifty years or so we might not have enough electricity for overpopulated cities at crunch time and somebody needs to take care of that? The old meters are to old- I can understand that.

Trust PG? Trust the other side? I belief it is not Efren Carrillos job to take care of it, he spoke out about this. I can only read and listen to what is said and make up my own mind.

I do not like the SMs. I am even less in favor of the cell phones, the micro waves, children in front of TVs and computers for many hrs, now we'll be getting the electric cars and all the tinkertoys inside... more will be ahead of us thats called evolution... and no, I do not like most of it but I do not see anybody fighting against all that. Why now the SM, the lesser harm?

I can hear a bussing in my bathroom (I found out it is my electric toothbrush), the computer, I can hear my heaters. My radio is out of order and static for over a year, I thought it started when some of my neighbors installed solar panels- what do I know about that? Nothing. Someone told me its possible. Who knows.

My SM was installed summer 2010 but not hooked up to the system as many SMs are not. The meter made is still coming to read the SM.

Perhaps we might be more thinking about improving all that has to do with PG and the SM instead of fighting it, like working together if possible... just my thoughts... I do not think that PG is out to "get us".
edie

[Sabrina]

Edie, I am sorry, but you are making a lot of statements that show you have not read through all the info and threads on Smart Meters. It has been pointed out over and over that PG&E is a corporation and not the government. They are not like some friendly person to work things out with, they are the monopoly on power in our part of the state, where we have no other choice than to go off the grid. As stated in many links / messages about Smart Meters it has been stated and is true that PG&E is being MANDATED by the CPUC to deploy smart meters all over CA, as are the other Energy companies down south (one called Edison, forget full name). The real battle here to get the choices we deserve as American citizens entitled to our constitutional rights is with the CPUC which is a Government entity. They are not listening to WE the people who have now approved Moratoriums at local levels on smart meters in Mendocino County, Marin County, Santa Cruz County, San Francisco, and many many other areas due to the wide spread controversy on smart meters both at a constitutional level AND at a health level. The CPUC says that they allow the Smart Meters as "safe" because they are approved by the FCC. The FCC say's they are safe but have NOT done any recent studies unlike the MANY MANY studies that have been done internationally on the health effects, etc. The FCC standards for approving RF levels are MUCH higher than that of other countries, therefore they allow them. I don't have time to go back and find for you all of the numerous sites I and others have posted here; so I say, go back and do some reading before you make statements. You are right that many other electrical items are un-safe such as cellphones, wi-fi, TV, etc. These items, at this point are a "choice". The danger w/ smart meters is that they are currently NOT a choice and whether you like it or not, not only will you be forced to have one on your wall, perhaps behind your headboard, but you will be subjected to the radius of the radiation of all surrounding neighbors. Here are are just a couple quick links anyhow: https://www.yourownhealthandfitness.org/ (from Layna Berman,PHD), https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/ (from Cindy Sage, Scientific Environmental Consultant)https://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com/. These sites have numerous links to facts and figures, testimonials, and legal documents. Just realize that WE are all in this together as American Citizens. We sometimes have to fight the powers that be, as many know that CPUC and PG&E have been incestuous bed-fellows from the time PG&E was founded (one of the last great highway robbers). My great Grandfather sat on the CPUC board and also owned major stock in PG&E. Just read up, my friend. No insults intended here. P.S. Also remember when you speak to any PG&E activist (on their side) they are paid campaigners, unlike We the people who are struggling just to get by sometimes, but need to take the time to fight to keep our so-called liberties in place.

[jlinney]

We are so accustomed to having electricity whenever we want it that we have started thinking of it as a right. Did you ever consider how hard the power provider has to work to continually balance the the amount of electricity being produced to the amount being used? It isn't like water that is stored in tanks and fills the pipes as it is used; electricity must be produced at the same rate at which it is being used. What if our society starts depending more on sun and wind power, and a cloud passes over and the wind dies down for a moment--we will all experience a decrease in power. Is the answer to build more fossil fuel plants just to be ready when that day comes? Or does it make sense to start being able to adapt the amount of electricity our community is using to the amount of power available?? Now there's a radical idea! We have the technology to turn off some of the appliances in homes and factories. It's called smart metering; let's start using it!

[Sabrina]

Make sure you all READ THIS: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?76084-Stop-Smart-Meters!-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-Wellington-Energy-Whistleblower&p=128401#post128401

[spam1]

Make sure you all READ THIS: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?76084-Stop-Smart-Meters!-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-Wellington-Energy-Whistleblower&p=128401#post128401

I read this in it's entirety, and just as I said, the very likely the ONLY danger is hot-switching the meter. And that's completely unrelated to whether it is smart or dumb; it's exactly like pulling a big plug, which will spark when the electricity is cut. So, this guy had nothing to say about safety of efficacy after the installation;

One question that I have not heard convincingly answered is whether the smart meters being installed contain the capability (as in the form of an internal switch) to actually cut usage to a house. Note that this is completely different than controlling a smart appliance. Such a function I would view with concern as poor programming, human error, computer virus etc could in such a case shut down a house or a neighbor hood (now I don't care for myself, we have backup power). This question is a matter of fact, and I have not heard a conclusive response.which I would be interested in.

[daynurse]

-
I am posting the design information from Texas Instruments below. The chart can be seen at: https://focus.ti.com/docs/solution/f...print/407.html. I read the words "supply management" to mean that supply to the home can be turned off remotely.

Peggy Day

Block Diagram


I am pasting the design information from Texas Instruments below. The diagram can be found at :

Design Considerations

For AMR (and AMI) to become truly pervasive it needs to provide more than a reduction in meter reading costs. Optimization for Asset tracking, dynamic pricing, tamper notification, outage management, supply automation, load profiling and network diagnostics are critical elements for the success of this infrastructure. This drives the move from Mechanical Meters towards Static (electronic) meters for all major utilities (Electricity, Water, Gas, Heat).
Currently, meters can be read manually, touch-read (handheld device with a wand or probe), Radio, Bus, Power Line, Modem, or GSM/Satellite. The drivers behind each choice are cost, existing infrastructure, and local regulations. In some regions the usage charge for a radio frequency band is higher than the cost of manual reading, or the local grid may not support communication over the power line (PLC).
In any case, the trend is towards AMR increases the electronics content of the meter itself, and AMI drives a networked infrastructure for all metering. A complete implementation could include power line communication to the electricity meter, and low power wireless communication from the electricity meter to other utility meters. Low power wireless communication to the major loads in the home/business (AC, Heaters, Refrigeration, etc) and would also allow dynamic setting control during power plant peak loading.
Given the need for very low power consumption, microcontrollers like the MSP430 are ideal for any metering application. An advanced electronic meter requires an MCU that offers precise measurements over a wide dynamic range, programmable Flash, non-volatile storage, real-time clock function, flexible display and AMR-enabled communications features. The MSP430 family offers up to up four 16-bit independent sigma-delta converters and programmable gain amplifiers along with specific integrated e-metering modules such as the ESP engine or 32x32 hardware multiplier allowing for easy, high performance metering calculations Utility Metering
As utilities requirements grow, pushing more and more smart functions like load demand response, Tariff management, communication and others, as metrology firmware may require to be qualified and isolated from the rest of the functions, the application layer for the smart electricity meter may require an additional functional unit to the primary Metrology function commonly called a Main MCU or the Application Processor. This MCU will typically require large amount of on-chip flash and connectivity. This can be the MSP430 with devices going up to 256kB flash, allowing leveraging development effort made on the Metrology side. Time to market pushing to software re-uses and easy migration, standard cores are very often required. With over 140 members in its family available today, TI's Stellaris Cortex M3 offers the widest selection of precisely-compatible MCUs in the industry. With many connectivity options, including the unique EMAC PHY+ MAC integrated in one device, many serial port combinations available to accommodate communication options, various flash size offer, TI's Stellaris Cortex M3 enables enabling powerful, cost-effective and simple to program paths for growing application layers for smart electricity meters.
TI’s F28x controller platform provides a cost-effective means to implement PLC technology. Along with advanced DSP cores, the controllers integrate robust peripherals such as analog-to-digital converters (ADCs), timers and pulse-width-modulation (PWM). F28x controllers offer a unique combination of 150 MIPS of 32-bit control-optimized performance, system integration and microcontroller- (MCU) like ease-of-use. This high level of system integration simplifies design and keeps control systems compact and cost-efficient. MCU-like instructions and on-chip flash memory enables rapid prototyping. SW flexibility and scalable performance in the family gives easy migration path from one modulation to another one as communication standards evolve.
Range, network configuration and power consumption are important factors when selecting a Low Power Wireless (LPW)solution. Range is affected by output power, sensitivity and selectivity, which in turn impact the jamming of other signal sources and the ability to distinguish the desired signal from local interferers. Point to Point, Star or Mesh Network choices not only impact these elements, but also the standards and frequency ranges chosen. TI’s LPW/Chipcon product family offers the performance and flexibility needed for Metering AMR and AMI applications.
TI's WiLink™ 6.0 solution, when combined with one of TI's ARM-based microprocessor (MPU) solutions provides a low-power, cost effective means to support broadly deployed wireless network topologies of WLAN (IEEE802.11a/b/g/n) and Bluetooth 2.1+EDR in a single chip. With this solution, Smart Meter customers can connect to a wide range of products such as home wireless routers and residential gateways, enabling the Smart Meter to easily connect to the network.
For the electricity meter, power for the electronics can be derived from the single to 3-phase power lines. For other utilities, the meter would either need to be attached to a power source or leverage an internal battery. In some regions it may also be possible to use rechargeable batteries and small solar cells to recharge them during the day. In order to do this effectively, high efficiency power and battery management devices are necessary.

[podfish]

One question that I have not heard convincingly answered is whether the smart meters being installed contain the capability (as in the form of an internal switch) to actually cut usage to a house. ..... This question is a matter of fact, and I have not heard a conclusive response.which I would be interested in.

Good point. I haven't looked all that close at one, but I think I would have noticed any modification to the junction box or line-in where a big enough solenoid would have to be added. The big fat three-phase wires would require a big fat electronic switch. I saw no sign of one.

[edie]

The danger w/ smart meters is that they are currently NOT a choice and whether you like it or not, not only will you be forced to have one on your wall, perhaps behind your headboard, but you will be subjected to the radius of the radiation of all surrounding neighbors.

Sabrina, don't worry- I am reading up on radiation, electromagnet fields, the body's electrical system etc since the seventies... and most of what's written about the smart meter for what- over a year now or longer. Your fighting this only because its not your choice?

Can you imagine the electromagnetic traffic on the internet, the radiation pattern of the cellular-phone towers, the path of each cell phone-pattern around us? On top of all that what the military is doing all over the planet- above sky and in the oceans? The future electric cars will have all kinds of electronics built in. We are caught in a spider net of all kinds of man made crap and I have NO choice! You want to fight all this -thats great, even if you fight only for a little bit, thats fantastic. As far as I can make out, the SM is the least problem of all. The cell phones are the larger problem- but they are free choice and fun, so its OK?

Do you have a better way of controlling the future onslaught for the need of electricity? To stop future projects like the smart meter you have to get in touch with the people who are experimenting with the future toys who believe they will improve the world by doing so. Yes its a business- ideas are sold.

How about if ALL of us spent one private day every other week without cellphone, no TV, computers, electric tools, one room only with electric light- candles only. I believe that would make in many ways a fantastic change!

My bigger worries are the taking over the world foods by MONSANTO- that would be something to fight about- but who has the power to do so? Austria is a small country who does fight them very strongly, but for how long can they fight them till they are taken over too?

Edie

[daynurse]

Hi Edie,

You ended by asking "My bigger worries are the taking over the world foods by MONSANTO- that would be something to fight about- but who has the power to do so?"

You do. That's what grassroots is all about. As a grandmother I feel passionately about many different issues. Monsanto is up there high on my list. But, as an organizer, I have limited resources. So, when I am contacted by the anti-GMO organizers, I support their efforts in whatever way possible.

I would ask you to put your energies only into the GMO issue but then we who are working to stop the installation of smart meters would suffer a huge loss. It is your well thought out, well worded criticism of the smart meter activism that helps the organizers (I'm not one), prioritize and come up with more research and more cohesive arguments.

The only thing I ask if for you to respect the passion of those who are willing to hit the ground running on this issue and I'm sure they respect your passion on the GMO issue and support it.

We don't know the future, we know that in the past we were told that there was no harm in DDT, tobacco, high-voltage towers, even fertilizers.

Noam Chompski said the only effective change comes from the ground up. Power to the grassroots organizers!

Respectfully,
Peggy Day

[edie]

Hi Peggy Day,

Well taken...
Edith

[spam1]

I read the words "supply management" to mean that supply to the home can be turned off remotely.

Peggy Day

This just refers to the TI chipset that is designed for smart metering. In the application note, found in the link, it shows the full implementation and shows no possibility of turning off the mains using the designs in the link. The mains appear to be always on with a direct connection. I infer that "supply automation" (I didn't see "supply management") means both smart appliances as well as detecting which parts of the grid are consuming the most power.

[stuartdole]

In my former career I wrote some code for a much earlier generation of smart meters. The meter itself won't control anything in your house - all it does is tell PG&E about how many kWh you've used during what time slots - for billing. I know some people who have "time of day billing" - PG&E'll give you a huge discount for late night power usage if you're willing to pay a premium for peak afternoon usage - think 6 cents vs 30 cents.

Then what you need to take advantage of this is something like Cisco's "Home Energy Manager". This does NOT talk to the meter - it talks to PG&E through the internet (to get your billing tiers), and to you (through the internet to your PC or smart phone), and (probably by WiFi) to what appliances you have that are controllable (and you have enabled). That way you can program your electric car to charge after midnight (at 6 cents a kWh), and so on.

So, more WiFi, more internet. But you could save a bunch of money if you wanted.

Happy trails!

[Sabrina]

The way that PG&E explained it to me (and everyone at the customer Advisory group that they invited me and 10 other customers to). is that Yes they Can quickly turn on or off your power "remotely" when there is a smart meter installed (they like to accentuate the "turn on" aspect - as per new customers will no longer have to wait a few days for new service); but they did confirm that "yes" if they are turning off your power, say for non payment, it will happen as quickly as pushing a remote button, rather than waiting for a person to come out and shut it off. This communication of turning on and off is working with just "one" of the transponders inside the meter. There are two transponders (if this is the correct "name" for it). The second one will not be working until a future time when there will be appliances people will be able to purchase (or purchase remote communication devices to place on your appliance) that are designed to "communicate" with your smart meter. This is where "Google Meter" (as someone mentioned earlier - think that's the name) or perhaps "Home Energy Meter", as Stuart mentioned, come in to play; they are designed to be able to read exactly what each appliance is using. This is the way PG&E explained it to us. It is supposed to save us energy, but it also means a lot more wi-fi in your home if you want to take part in that aspect of the program (or also purchasing more devices that "work" with their program, most likely from GE, etc). PG&E says that supposedly the second transponder will not be active until you elect for it to be active with appliances that can communicate with it. But the power on off, yes they can do. However they are very conscientious about the possibility of someone being on any sort of electrical based medical device that could be disrupted. In the past, when I've been behind on my bill, and they're threatening turn off, they always ask " do you have anyone on any sort of electrical medical device" (or some such wording).

[zenekar]

Hi Sabrina,

Did PG&E happen to mention how many people they will be laying off because there will be no need for workers to come out and turn power on/off, adding further to unemployment?

Attila

[Sabrina]

It seems that's been figured somewhere in all the data, and has definitely been a point of contention to them. Maybe someone else knows the numbers? PG&E's answer is that "all of the meter readers are being "offered" to apply for other jobs within the company, but those people are actually not "guaranteed" jobs, which is really bad (they just get to apply, and maybe have some seniority over folks who've not worked for the company yet). I know the Meter Reader by my Mom's house keeps giving her the thumbs up about her stop smart meter sign, and has hinted that he's not looking forward to changing or looking for another job. One of the major PG&E spokespersons for smart meter, Austin Sharp, constantly impresses everyone with the fact that he used to be a meter reader and is now happily employed in a new position. Clearly, part of the idea around smart meter is to save PG&E money, thus, most likely, part of this is cutting job positions, along with getting to charge us higher fees at "peak" times . Now that I am practically the only one in my neighborhood without a smart meter, it's making me wonder if they are just estimating my bill now; as I've not seen a meter reader in months. (the dog always barks when they come)

[Barry]

See Efren's letter in support of AB37 (Jared Huffman's Opt-Out measure) here.

[tomcat]

On the 'solar panel installation' thread, the subject of smart gas and water meters came up. What does anyone know about these? Are they the same? I live in Santa Rosa and I know I have something attached to my water meter so they can read it without getting out of their truck. It was installed a year or two ago, I think.

[Sabrina]

I'm not really sure about the water meters. There is another thread starting up about smart meters here though with maybe more people who may know to? https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...eters&p=128955

[jlinney]

Now I think we are asking good questions. I hope people who go to the forums/ council meetings, etc. ask--how this will advance implementation of the smart grid and help us prepare for a future based on renewable energy--

One question that I have not heard convincingly answered is whether the smart meters being installed contain the capability (as in the form of an internal switch) to actually cut usage to a house. Note that this is completely different than controlling a smart appliance. Such a function I would view with concern as poor programming, human error, computer virus etc could in such a case shut down a house or a neighbor hood (now I don't care for myself, we have backup power). This question is a matter of fact, and I have not heard a conclusive response.which I would be interested in.

[Sabrina]

Just for everyone's information, I posted a protest happening at the SF CPUC office under events. You can see it here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...-San-Francisco

Mendocino County Board of Supervisors unanimously adopted a one year Smart Meter moratorium today!!
That makes THREE counties who've passed ordinances against Smart Meters. (Marin, Mendocino and Santa Cruz)

How about SONOMA COUNTY?
Call Supervisor Carrillo, or your supervisor at 565-2241
ALSO call State Senator Noreen Evans and ask her to support the right to opt out AB 37 576-2771
Thanks,
Sandi

[Two Riders]

I visited my daughter in Sacramento last week. Also spent some time at my mothers in the house where I grew up, in Sacramento. Both of my adult children live in the Sacramento area. I recently spent a week in the small town of Wickenberg Arizona.
One thing I found common to all these places was that they all had Smart Meters.
I don't think anyone of was aware that they had them, nor were they aware of the problems that people here say go along with Smart Meters.
I live in Sebastopol and I have had a SM since last Spring.
I have not noticed anything different.
I don't know what it is about Sebastopol that makes some people so hypersensitive.

[podfish]

... in Sacramento last week.... spent a week in the small town of Wickenberg Arizona.
One thing I found common to all these places was that they all had Smart Meters.
I don't think anyone of was aware that they had them, nor were they aware of the problems that people here say go along with Smart Meters. .

slow fat one up the middle, at the start of baseball season no less!
there are a lot of things people in Arizona and Sacramento don't seem to be aware of.....