SMART METER ALERT! Stop installation in Sonoma and Marin Counties!

[Sasu]

An EMF Safety Network member just called to say there are Smart Meter installers (Wellington trucks) in Rohnert Park NOW ( (9:45 am Friday Dec 31) near the corner of East Cotati Ave and Camino Collegio on the South West side, heading towards or near M section.

Can anyone (or better- two or more) go there to chase them off? Bring a camera!

Please, join our WELLINGTON ALERT phone tree list for Sonoma County so we can help to protect our areas!
email your name and phone number to [email protected]

Anyone can call 824-0824 HOTLINE for Wellington alert- to let us know if they spot Wellington trucks and where they are in Sonoma County. Let's get organized and keep them OUT!

Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

Wellington is the subcontractor PGE hired to install Smart Meters. Their deployment yard is in Rohnert Park behind the Hertz rental yard at 5500 Commerce Blvd. They drive little white trucks with Wellington logo on the drivers door. Some trucks now have the Wellington logo covered by white plastic.

[Two Riders]

Do you think "chasing them off" is going to stop them? I don't understand the fuss. EMFs are all around us, how is not having a smart meter going to change the effects from an environment that is already flooded with EMFs? I live in Sebastopol, asked for and got a smart meter last May. No problems so far. Probably less signal strength than the wireless router, microwave and cel phone.

[BeverlyBR]

An EMF Safety Network member just called to say there are Smart Meter installers (Wellington trucks) in Rohnert Park NOW ( (9:45 am Friday Dec 31) near the corner of East Cotati Ave and Camino Collegio on the South West side, heading towards or near M section.

Can anyone (or better- two or more) go there to chase them off? Bring a camera!

Please, join our WELLINGTON ALERT phone tree list for Sonoma County so we can help to protect our areas!
email your name and phone number to [email protected]

Anyone can call 824-0824 HOTLINE for Wellington alert- to let us know if they spot Wellington trucks and where they are in Sonoma County. Let's get organized and keep them OUT!

Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

Wellington is the subcontractor PGE hired to install Smart Meters. Their deployment yard is in Rohnert Park behind the Hertz rental yard at 5500 Commerce Blvd. They drive little white trucks with Wellington logo on the drivers door. Some trucks now have the Wellington logo covered by white plastic.

So, what is the big deal about Smart Meters that you want to stop their installation & keep them out of Sonoma County?

Beverly

[Barry]

So, what is the big deal about Smart Meters that you want to stop their installation & keep them out of Sonoma County?

Beverly

The main issues are:

Simply put, the main issues are:

1. Security of data and private information

2. Questionable accuracy and greatly increased bills

3. Loss of jobs and trained people in the field monitoring the infrastructure

4. Potential and unknown health risks from wireless radiation

5. Private property rights and your ability to choose for yourself in your own home

There's more info about each of these issues here.

FWIW, I think #1 is a serious concern, and perhaps #2, but i think that's been sorted it out. My understanding is that thanks to the PUC, PG&E actually makes more money by selling less energy.

[natalie]

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

[Sabrina]

If you don't understand the potential erosion of personal land and health rights as posed by the smart meter grid, you can find PLENTY of well documented info on these two sites: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/ , here: https://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com/, and more on health risks here: https://www.radiationresearch.org/, and here: https://wiredchild.org/, and those are just a few that can be found. The fact that we are not given a "choice" in the matter of installing a smart meter is an invasion of personal property freedom of choice rights. While it's true we are bombarded with electromagnetic fields these days, most all of the technology are choices we can make, such as Wi fi or cell phones, and other wireless media. According to PG & E, I believe a privately held stock company, we do not have a choice in the matter of having a smart meter installed; they say they are mandated by the state.

" ....In California alone, 23 Cities (including Morro Bay) and three counties have formally opposed the wireless PG&E smart meters...." and "....Prudent avoidance of electromagnetic radiation has been adopted in Australia, Sweden and several U.S. states including California, Colorado, Hawaii, New York, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin...." says Judy Vick in a recent Cal Coast News Article. See: https://calcoastnews.com/2010/12/leg...-smart-meters/. While some folks may not be sensitive to the electromagnetic fields and feel that this should not be such a big deal, think of those who are sensitive and actually do develop illness's from it. They should have a choice in the matter and not have it forced on them. After all there has been NO study done by the PG&E, the CPUC or the FCC on the health risks of these meters. Any statement that they are "safe" is false, because the study has not been done to determine that.

[Sasu]

Thanks to Barry and Sabrina for posting the concerns with Smart Meters: here's more info:

Smart Meters are costing us money, our privacy, our health and safety. Some people's bills have doubled, tripled and more. Smart Meters have exploded, burned out appliances and are making some people very sick, insomnia, split second head aches and high pitched ringing in the ears, nausea, etc. This is RF pollution, just like cell towers, only right on our homes! While some people have gotten meters removed, others are stuck fighting PG&E.

PG&E cannot be trusted to provide substantiated or believable information to consumers about Smart Meters. There's been no environmental safety study. Smart Meters transmit pulsed microwave radiation (RF) constantly, throughout the day and night.

Here's some science simplified: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=609
Also: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/wp-cont...09/10/sage.pdf

People are getting sick from Smart meters https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=2292

Read these shocking comments : burnt out appliances, serious over billing, interference https://www.ucan.org/forum/forums/en...illing_dispute
https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1223

And Smart Meter fires and explosion https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1280

People can reduce their EMF exposure- something the State of California advises people to do! Here's some suggestions on how to do it: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page%20id=327

Read more about why we and many cities and several counties oppose them here: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=872

The fact is, a microwave, a cell phone, wi-fi are a choice, and you can purchase or not. You can also turn these devices on or off at your convenience. A Smart Meter is part of a microwave radio system that the utility is forcing on our homes and they and they are using our property for their use without compensation- this violates California law!

PGE will be able to turn off your power remotely, or turn down your heat, or AC or water heater when they need to. Plus they will be able to track your personal activities, and do you want to trust your privacy to PGE?

All new Appliances will be sold with RF chips so our homes will be further polluted with wireless, where there's evidence of harm, scientific and anecdotal!

Need more? See this: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...956#post126956
and
https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1546

Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

[Sasu]

PS... and here's what you can do about it!
Refuse Smart Meters! Post signs on utility meters or demand removal and complain (in CA send this: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=1588) to your public utilities commission!

Take Action! https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=649

[daynurse]

[Artaloha]

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

What month was that? Our bills go way up in winter due to far shorter days and longer nights, and of course, it's COLD so that's another draw on gas or electric power.
You can compare the month(s) in question that you noticed the bill going up with the same month LAST year. Check specifically to make sure there wasn't a dramatic difference in the number of kilowatt hours of energy used ...

[spam1]

...
Smart Meters are costing us money, our privacy, our health and safety. Some people's bills have doubled, tripled and more. Smart Meters have exploded, burned out appliances and are making some people very sick, insomnia, split second head aches and high pitched ringing in the ears, nausea, etc. This is RF pollution, just like cell towers, only right on our homes!

There's been no environmental safety study. Smart Meters transmit pulsed microwave radiation (RF) constantly, throughout the day and night.
Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

Maybe money (although more expensive electricity would reduce usage, thereby reducing green house gasses, but that is beside the point). Most likely, the cost will be found in the future if they enforce time-of-use pricing to all: but this doesn't relate to smart meters, just to time-of-use meters (of which smart meters are one example).
If the old meters were not reliable, and reporting less usage than they should have, we should applaud the improvement to make people pay for the resources that they use. The State of California is undertaking a study of smart meter accuracy. If they are determined to be on-the-average over reporting usage, then it is a simple matter for the state to dictate that the smart meter reading be "prorated" for the average error to ensure there is no net increase in the rate of overcharging. By the way, from my understanding of regular meters, the failure mechanism is to record lower usage than actual due to friction and loss in the "wheel" that measures the electric use; so it is reasonable to expect a majority of people might see an increase as they are finally paying for their actual usage.

Doubtful privacy: Is having a person walk up to your house more or less private than a meter reporting your usage? Tracking usage vs time could tell someone when you were home (unless your heater and air-conditioner are on a timer and thus go on-and-off at normal intervals) but the difficulty of hacking into the system is undoubtedly much more difficult than just buying an Infra Red (IR) camera and pointing it at the house. This is how "grow" houses are often found, and it is easy to see people walking around inside.

Health: well here is just where the science and math just don't bear you out. The fields are so small and so infrequent, compared to the ubiquitous fields that they simply cannot have much effect. There is RF in the form of AM and FM stations, Cell towers, and neighbors WiFi that are several orders of magnitude larger. It makes no sense at all to argue this; even if you say it is cumulative (and there is absolutely no evidence, mechanism or hint that low lever signals can accumulate with even the perceived possibilities of high level signals causing some dna damage), the accumulation is so many orders of magnitude below the existing levels and for so short of time that it cannot possibly be considered significant. So to argue it affects your health just makes you look silly and uninformed w.r.t. to even extreme "precautionary" principles.
My son commented to me "are you arguing with those smart meter guys again; it's like arguing with the homeless at a bus stop; they're mostly irrational and is just a waste of your time". I don't suppose there is any possibility that any science or study could convince you, but I don't intend to let you make these completely false posting without at least presenting the logical extension of even your "facts"; which is...the effects you claim, beyond any reasonable doubt, cannot be caused by RF of smart meters. And did you know that the old meters relied on EM fields to turn the little wheel (eddy currents) which can only occur in the presence of radiating RF fields: thus, perhaps the new meters radiate less RF than the old meters.

Safety: I have never heard an example of a smart meter exploding or damaging anything. I can't see how they possibly can since there are a nearly passive monitor. If you did have a smart appliance, then maybe it could have an effect if it "pulled-the-plug" at the wrong instance in the operating cycle, but to my knowledge no smart appliances have been made available. Further, I would like to know if any regular meters have exploded? I would guess so too. A reasonable scenario for an explosion would be an installation where the meter is poorly connected in-line, causing a heat build up at the contacts: but that would be the same whether it is a Smart Meter or a regular meter being installed. However, if one could say "1 in 1000" meter installations results in a bad installation that can cause problems" then I would consider that a valid justification for asking whether it is wise to replace all meters. If it's 1 in 30 million, then I would guess the benefits outweigh the risks.

[spam1]

The biggest thing that is disturbing about this is that they don't jumper the mains before pulling the meter, and (according to the poster) don't contact an residents to let them know they're killing the power. It'd be a bummer to have you most elegant in-process posting killed by the power going off. But, in West County, we must be prepared for unstable PGE anyhow (Uninterpretable Power Supplies -UPS and standy systems are recommended!).

And: does anyone else find it ironic that shes talking on a mobile phone while she's filming this? That mobile phone call just exposed her to conservatively 62,500 times the exposure of a smart meter (2 cm vs 5 meters average distance). So that one phone call exposed her to 171 years worth of smart meter radiation!

[stuartdole]

Actually, since our meter went in our bills have dropped. Same for the gas meter.

I had a client for a while who was an engineer with PG&E - he said the old mechanical meters ("analog") were notoriously inaccurate - the gears would corrode and they'd slow down or even stop. I recall the investigations of the high bills in the central valley towns usually came up with this - the old meters were running slow, so the customers were used to underpaying for their huge AC load.

Other issues: PG&E owns the meters - they have the right to access them, repair them, and replace them.

EMF: the meters emit very little - less than a typical cell phone. Where we live we're near the KSRO transmitters (off Stony Point Road), and talk about EMF! We can hear "Coast to Coast" coming out of our hifi when the tuner is turned off. AM broadcast (and FM and TV) have been happening for many decades - these guys put out hundreds of thousands of watts. With all that going on, I'm not really worried about the drop in the bucket.

If you are EMF sensitive (I know some are), I just found out there is a federally designated EMF-free area in West Virginia - to protect the Green Bank radio telescopes. You could always move there. Admittedly, it's probably not feasible for most. The idea is interesting, however. (If anyone tries to emit any microwaves there - a cell phone, WIFI, Prius V (with it's adaptive cruise - a huge emitter), the telescopes will pick it up and the guys trace it down and shut it off.)

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

[edie]

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

My bill went up- the Smart Meter was installed early summer 2010, but not turned on. An area has to have a curtain % of Smart Meters installed to be turned on.
I guess it was the cold and wet season that made my electric heaters work harder... perhaps I could blame it on the SM?

[natalie]

Thank you. I don't have an electric heater.

My bill went up- the Smart Meter was installed early summer 2010, but not turned on. An area has to have a curtain % of Smart Meters installed to be turned on.
I guess it was the cold and wet season that made my electric heaters work harder... perhaps I could blame it on the SM?

[natalie]

Well, it makes sense that the bills would be higher with the smart meter if the old meters weren't functioning properly. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

Actually, since our meter went in our bills have dropped. Same for the gas meter.

I had a client for a while who was an engineer with PG&E - he said the old mechanical meters ("analog") were notoriously inaccurate - the gears would corrode and they'd slow down or even stop. I recall the investigations of the high bills in the central valley towns usually came up with this - the old meters were running slow, so the customers were used to underpaying for their huge AC load.

Other issues: PG&E owns the meters - they have the right to access them, repair them, and replace them.

EMF: the meters emit very little - less than a typical cell phone. Where we live we're near the KSRO transmitters (off Stony Point Road), and talk about EMF! We can hear "Coast to Coast" coming out of our hifi when the tuner is turned off. AM broadcast (and FM and TV) have been happening for many decades - these guys put out hundreds of thousands of watts. With all that going on, I'm not really worried about the drop in the bucket.

If you are EMF sensitive (I know some are), I just found out there is a federally designated EMF-free area in West Virginia - to protect the Green Bank radio telescopes. You could always move there. Admittedly, it's probably not feasible for most. The idea is interesting, however. (If anyone tries to emit any microwaves there - a cell phone, WIFI, Prius V (with it's adaptive cruise - a huge emitter), the telescopes will pick it up and the guys trace it down and shut it off.)

[Sabrina]

I don't have sound on this computer, so I could not hear if there was any talking going on in the video, BUT...I AM WONDERING WHY the guy is required to use a protective glass (or heavy plastic?) face cover when there is no welding going on? If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E), could the guy be wearing protective glass because of the cumulative effect the radiation has on a person, that is so clearly laid out throughout all of the links posted so far, especially the links posted by Sandi Maurer (Sasu)? They're being safe with their workers, but what about the person who's bedroom and bed are backed up right to the wall of a smart meter? Who's protecting them? Spam 1 lays out a long argument in favor of smart meters with no documentation to back him or her up unlike ALL of the websites and links that have been presented so far pointing to the potential harms and dangers of the smart meters. Stuart Dole is suggesting that the old analog meters gears were corroded; so yes, meters may need replacing from time to time, but that does NOT give PG&E the permission to change folks quality of life and environment by adding unwanted permanent wireless technology fixture to your house. They can add a new "wired" meter; it might even be digital; but does NOT need to be wireless.

HERE are a couple things you can do to stop smart meters:
SEND AN OPT OUT LETTER TO CPUC, Form letter here: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=1588
PUT A SIGN ON YOUR METERS, here's how: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=649

THERE IS NOW A NEW ACTION ALERT to STOP SMART METERS. I just received info on this action from Deborah Tavares of hthttps://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com and have attached action info within this thread. If you already have a smart meter on your house and don't want it, see attachment " A Small Claim with Big Consequences". IF you DON'T have a smart meter yet, and still don't want one, see attachment " Steps to Avoid Big Injuries"
Here is the original forwarded information from Deborah and I've attached the action letters at the bottom:

From Deborah Tavares
(If you have questions about this action alert email: [email protected])


ACTION ALERT!


IF PG$E HAS NOT YET INSTALLED A SMART METER ON YOUR PROPERTY - OR - IF THEY HAVE - YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


We have citizen action claims and notices that are attached to download for all to complete for either folks with a smart meter or those who do not have a smart meter yet.


These were drafted by the attorney types in our group of horrified deployed and un-deployed utility customers.


There is a small claims court action packet is intended to use the law against people who say they are using the law against us. The Small Claims filing is for folks with a smart meter already and the Notice is for folks without a smart meter.


Specific instructions are attached to each course of action and you should all consider following through with one of these as soon as possible.


PLEASE FORWARD TO "ALL" YOU KNOW - ASAP!
If you have questions about this action alert email: [email protected]

NOTE: as of 1/19/2011 I removed the attachments for the actions for smart meters and am pasting in the website for purchasing signs and bumperstickers, which also has the same actions posted to the right of the web page. Go here: here:https://www.refusesmartmeters.com/

[spam1]

I don't have sound on this computer, so I could not hear if there was any talking going on in the video, BUT...I AM WONDERING WHY the guy is required to use a protective glass (or heavy plastic?) face cover when there is no welding going on? If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E), could the guy be wearing protective glass because of the cumulative effect the radiation has on a person,

No. Here you are just making things up out of your ignorance. As I stated in the post, the disturbing thing is that they are replacing the meter "hot". When you open an electric circuit that has current running through it, it MUST spark (absolutely has to, Maxwell's equations require it). If there was really substatial current, at the max of the usage it might be 100 or 200 amps, the spark could conceivably vaporize a bit of the the contact material throwing off a spark of molten metal. In fact, it is identical to an arc-welding system, and it fully explains wearing protection that resembles protection for a welder. For that matter, a plastic face mask won't have much effect on RF energy other than possibly concetrating it around the mask (slightly) do the dielectric of plastic being different from air.

that is so clearly laid out throughout all of the links posted so far, especially the links posted by Sandi Maurer (Sasu)? They're being safe with their workers, but what about the person who's bedroom and bed are backed up right to the wall of a smart meter? Who's protecting them? Spam 1 lays out a long argument in favor of smart meters with no documentation to back him or her up

I have had lots of links, but mostly I can rely on the physics of the situation which is not subject to interpretation. A cell phone operating 1 inch from the head at max power (roughly 2 watts) produces a field strenght 41 milliwatts/cm^2. A smart meter operating at the max of part 15 FCC rules would be about 1W at a distance of 500 cm, producing a field 0.0003 millwatts/cm^; about 125,000 times smaller, but to be conservative, I suggested that the cell phone was operationg at 1/2 power, thus the claim of 62,5000 times less. The phone call lasted about 45 seconds, about the same time as the smart meter operates all day, so you can divide 62500 by 365 days/year and come up with the FACT that the one phone call made exposed the user to 171 years of smart meter operation. I don't say there is NO evidence of cell phone usage being linked to disease, but I do say that all the posted references refer to levels associated with cell phones held to the head, and are so much greater than the smart meters, that anyone acting Reasonably or Rationally would have to conclude there is simply no cause to believe smart meters can cause any perceptible change in anyone's health. You don't need a reference for that, the math and facts speak simply for themselves.

issueof unlike ALL of the websites and links that have been presented so far pointing to the potential harms and dangers of the smart meters.

And I have taken the time to read almost everyone of them. And many here conflate the discussion of Cell phones (with high fields near the head) with cell towers (much lower fields), AM radios (much higher fields) and RF smart meters (much much lower fields).

Stuart Dole is suggesting that the old analog meters gears were corroded; so yes, meters may need replacing from time to time, but that does NOT give PG&E the permission to change folks quality of life and environment by adding unwanted permanent wireless technology fixture to your house. They can add a new "wired" meter; it might even be digital; but does NOT need to be wireless.

Wired vs wireless has no effect on the real issues: time of use pricing, ability to net meter, privacy. Your irrational fear of the wireless RF smart meters is just that, irrational. If you have ever used a cell phone, or a cordless phone, for even 1 minute, you have exposed yourself to more than 171 YEARS of RF smart meter fields. And no, I don't work for PGE. It just drives me nuts that as a society we decide what should be done and not done based on a completely irrational basis. By the way, the old meters had lead and probably mercury in them...removing them should be encouraged as it removes lead from the environment. (Actually, I'm kidding here, in that while the risk of disease from lead from the old meters is probably significantly more than any possible risk of the RF fields, the risk is so low as to also be de minimus).

[boB Phelps]

I heard a spokesperson for TURN (The Utility Reform (or somesuch) Network on KGO say that the reason PGE is so intent on smartmeters everywhere is so they can implement demand pricing--yu pay more when use is high and less when use is low. They tout this as a conservation measure but it punishes those who must be at home such as moms and old folks, who will pay more or sit and freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. My old parents-- including my 100% housebound mom-- already hesitate to use their air conditioning in the summer (115 degrees for days in their town last summer!) because they are afraid of the bills and this will will just make it worse. The TURN suggestion is to have PGE give rebates to reward conservation, not higher rates to punish their captive customers. I am refusing the installation (by phone) and so far it has worked. But very worried about the end game.

Watch out for TURN (Toward Utility Rate Normalization). They've done more damage to the utility industry than any single entity. They may be watching PGE, but who's watching them. I was an Environmental Supervisor for Southern California Edison, in the mid 90's, when TURN began to gain a stronger influence on the regulatory processes of the utility industry. They helped create the political process that forced investor owned utilities to divest significant percentages of their generating facilities, selling them off to IPP's (independent power producers), who had no better qualification to run the facilities than the original owners. TURN was so influential in convincing the powers that be, to de-regulate and resructure the utility industry, that a new energy broker was created to regulate the distribution and pricing of energy....................ENRON!!!!

[Sabrina]

yikes! I can see that when I said: " If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E)" It struck a cord in Spam 1 causing him to call me names like "ignorant" and "irrational". Well, for your info, I am one of 11 Sonoma county residents chosen by PG&E to take part in a citizens advisory council regarding our concerns over smart meters. We've had 3 meetings with PG&E (always with about 10 PG & E members present as well). The arguments spam1 and Mr. Dole made sounded just like stuff I heard from PG&E in those meetings. And, I did not accuse you, Joel, of working there. Joel, you sound like them pretty much all through your arguments. I'm not going to select quotes out of your argument to prove it and make this any longer than it needs to be.

FYI, as of this AM I received in Email that Sage Associates Environmental Consultants have published an on-line report titled Assessment of Radiofrequency Microwave Radiation Emissions from Smart Meters, dated January 1, 2011. I've just posted to a new separate listing in general community that you can view and download. It's here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...190#post127190. Or go straight to the report here: https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/.

There is PLENTY of facts for you to peruse and argue about there. And there is no longer the excuse of saying that there have been no studies done to show damaging effects by smart meters. By the way, I'm of the opinion that if you chose to have one, I could care less about arguing that with you as long it doesn't pose a risk to me or my loved ones. But I don't want one forced down my throat, and that's my right as an American Citizen; and out of conscience, I feel it's my duty to inform people what I know as I learn it. They can delete, or give me new info I'm not aware of. By the way the reason the smart meter installer must use a glass face covering is from potential damage to the eyes at 6'' away from meter, I found out, from within that report above.

[edie]

It just drives me nuts that as a society we decide what should be done and not done based on a completely irrational basis.

Thank you spam1 January 3,..... to be exposed to a possible health risk from the RF fields you would have to be within 2 feet of the smart meter... therefore- who the hell wants to watch or linger around a smart meter within 2 feet?

..... who will pay for all the now ongoing lawsuits? The taxpayers, PG&E costumers? Many states in US and Europe have them installed for many years now, sooner or later they all will be installed in California. Why don't we just install them and have one group of oversight to monitor and improve the smart meter- outside of PG&E, which I believe is doing just that ongoing, out of their own interest.

..... there are sooo many other health-risk-problems going on that are stuffed down on us- there are books written about them... but I watched one everyday incidence that we don't seem really aware of that got my blood-pressure up on one of the past holidays: A driver stopped his car on the side of the road to make a phone call. (That's very good) he was on the cell phone for 1 1/2 hrs (nooking or frying his brains is his problem)- but his engine was running all the time, not just that, he left and came back two more times each time quite over 1 hr parking with a running engine... This is a senseless ongoing pollution and how many care?------ The smart meter?... get over it... I am sure other stuff is in the making... that's evolution?!

[spam1]

yikes! I can see that when I said: " If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E)" It struck a cord in Spam 1 causing him to call me names like "ignorant" and "irrational".

Please don't confuse being called ignorant with name calling. Ignorance can be cured, and I am happy to help you become less ignorant. (Definition: Ignorant = lack of knowledge). In fact, at the end of your post you say " By the way the reason the smart meter installer must use a glass face covering is from potential damage to the eyes at 6'' away from meter, I found out, from within that report above" again displays ignorance of the fact that for the most part, glass or plastic is invisible to RF energy; however, it will protect against sparks and molten metal, as I explained. So, when you propagate the idea the "smart meters must be dangerous because I see a technician using face protection, based on the Sage report" (my paraphrasing) you are propagating a complete untruth. And doing this due to your lack of knowledge.

Well, for your info, I am one of 11 Sonoma county residents chosen by PG&E to take part in a citizens advisory council regarding our concerns over smart meters. We've had 3 meetings with PG&E (always with about 10 PG & E members present as well). The arguments spam1 and Mr. Dole made sounded just like stuff I heard from PG&E in those meetings. And, I did not accuse you, Joel, of working there. Joel, you sound like them pretty much all through your arguments. I'm not going to select quotes out of your argument to prove it and make this any longer than it needs to be.

and if you have access to PGE professionals, then you could also ask them about the protection.

FYI, as of this AM I received in Email that Sage Associates Environmental Consultants have published an on-line report titled Assessment of Radiofrequency Microwave Radiation Emissions from Smart Meters, dated January 1, 2011. I've just posted to a new separate listing in general community that you can view and download. It's here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...190#post127190. Or go straight to the report here: https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/.

There is PLENTY of facts for you to peruse and argue about there. And there is no longer the excuse of saying that there have been no studies done to show damaging effects by smart meters.

And I read this in its entirety. This report does not say there are damaging effects of smart meters. At the very best, it says that under some conditions (most of which are dubious) the levels of smart meters could exceed FCC limits for some RF products. But there also some disturbingly biased assumptions in the report, two of which dominate:
1) The report states in essence that since the smart meters have the functionality to operate 100% of the time (vs 0.05% PGE states they will operate) and the signal might be enhanced by 20 times due to reflections, at these levels they exceed some FCC mandates. Thats a 400,000 :1 difference in the assumed amount of RF energy between PGE statements and assumptions in the report.
2) A particularly egregious situational analysis says that a smart meter could be located 11 inches from a nursery, and does field calculations based on assumptions from 1 above. BUT for a meter to be installed, it must be in a completely fire-blocked metal box, with the back of the box facing the house. The very "reflection" effects that the report states can occur would in this case shield the inside of the house.

An interesting side note is that this shielding effect could very reasonably cause the field from your neighbors smart meter to be larger than that from your own. For anyone to not consider this shielding effect amounts to engineering malpractice of the type that was recently reported in the Lanclet re: vaccines and mercury. https://www.torontosun.com/life/heal.../16778696.html

More to the report: at it's very worst implication (stated to be 400,000 times greater than PGE reports) it is still less RF energy than that of a cell phone call, or cordless phone. Thus, if you have ever used either one, you have already voluntarily exposed yourself to so much more RF energy than the likely amount from a smart meter, that it isn't really rational to be concerned with it. The numbers just don't bear it out.

By the way, I'm of the opinion that if you chose to have one, I could care less about arguing that with you as long it doesn't pose a risk to me or my loved ones. But I don't want one forced down my throat, and that's my right as an American Citizen; and out of conscience, I feel it's my duty to inform people what I know as I learn it. They can delete, or give me new info I'm not aware of. By the way the reason the smart meter installer must use a glass face covering is from potential damage to the eyes at 6'' away from meter, I found out, from within that report above.

I am trying to help you be RATIONAL about the risks: for example, if it is shown that the risk of cancer from the PGE guy driving up to your house using a gas powered car (which is truly carcinogenic) is less than that of RF from a smart meter, would you then say "sign me up, I want to lower my risk"? That would be the rational thing to do.

And I don't have dog in this fight; I don't think smart meters are all that necessary, but they might allow for reduction in peak power generation, most likely by making it really expensive to run your dryer between noon and 7 pm. But I think a major problem with public debate is a few ignorant and irrational people make a fuss that our local politicians just can't seem to deal with. A true example of this is the Sebastopol city council denying Sonic's application to provide free wifi in Sebastopol. The result of that is very likely HIGHER wifi generation as every single person, business and agency that wants wireless access has to set up their own network. A sonic network could be used by all, with lower overall RF and much lower costs...so how did it get turned down? Two words: Ignorance and irrationality.

[Sabrina]

Spam 1,
I am not going to be worn out by trying to copy and paste every one of your, I'm sorry to say, irrational arguments about the emerging scientific and political facts about the dangers of smart meters to both our constitutional rights or our health freedoms. You are spending so much energy on just me, and baby, thanks for all the love, but I gotta tell ya, I am not alone nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed by you. I simply will continue to share the facts and information from those that to me have credibility, and there are a growing quite a many, darling. Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters, so no more accusing just the liberal west county; see today's PD article: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110105/ARTICLES/110109761&tc=email_newsletter?p=1&tc=pg&tc=ar . Mendocino is starting their fight on now too against the dumming of smart meters.

[spam1]

I am not alone nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed by you

No, I didn't suppose so. You don't want to be confused by the facts. I, on the other hand, could be convinced the other direction (it is rational to think it is possible for RF to cause disease, but so far the preponderance of the evidence says at most small risk for even large RF energy of hand held phones and I infer smaller risk for smart meters that produce 1/400,000 the energy ). I would be curious, however, if you do own a cell phone or a cordless phone or have ever used one?
And as I said, the RF question is completely unrelated to the question of meters that can monitor usage and charge time of use rates. But one goal of a forum is to educate others, and one way to do that is try to post unbiased facts.
And also as I said, I don't care whether smart meters are installed or not, but just like the fraudulent vaccine scare, this fraudulent scare about RF from smart meters causing disease just doesn't sit well with me. Nor not I believe in space aliens, psychic predictions of the future, homeopathy, the healing power of crystals, or most religious statements. So I will keep posting a reasonable position as my public service. And you do have another choice, unsubscribe from PGE...it's just that simple. And if irrational people from the left and from the right (tea party) are against something, it's probably a sign to support it for all of us in the center.

[danejasper]

Does anyone find it ironic that this discussion is happening online?

[spam1]

More ironic...I wouldn't be online at all except for pogowave (inside joke).

[podfish]

Spam 1,
I am not going to be worn out by trying to copy and paste every one of your, I'm sorry to say, irrational arguments about the emerging scientific and political facts about the dangers of smart meters to both our constitutional rights or our health freedoms. .... nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed by you. I simply will continue to share the facts and information from those that to me have credibility, and there are a growing quite a many, darling. Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters

how 'bout ONE of his irrational arguments? actually, on a quick perusal, I didn't see one myself. As Inigo Montoya said in Princess Bride, "I don't think that word means what you think it does". Rational means "appeal to reason". You may not like the conclusions, and in fact you may not believe the evidence he's trotting out, but his posts have been rational arguments.
Sorry to say, saying "nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed" literally is saying "I have a closed mind". You probably wouldn't characterize yourself that way, but can't you see that's what you're saying?
Finally, finding such bad bedfellows like the tea party should be a warning sign, not a signal that you're on the path to truth.
Along with Spam1, I too don't "have a dog in this fight". But I do have one in the fight against all the crazy battles being fought by people who think windmills are giants and can't be convinced otherwise. There are so many real problems that should be addressed and people of good will piss away their energy on nonsensical wars. If I was more conspiracy-minded I'd think that our overlords are doing it on purpose to distract us from their hidden machinations. (I'll leave defense of that conclusion to other Waccos...)

[natalie]

You don't have to be too conspiracy minded to remember how race has been used as a tool of distraction....you may not be far off Podfish.

[jbox]

spam 1,
i am not going to be worn out by trying to copy and paste every one of your, i'm sorry to say, irrational arguments about the emerging scientific and political facts about the dangers of smart meters to both our constitutional rights or our health freedoms. You are spending so much energy on just me, and baby, thanks for all the love, but i gotta tell ya, i am not alone nor am i going to be the one to have my mind changed by you. I simply will continue to share the facts and information from those that to me have credibility, and there are a growing quite a many, darling. Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters, so no more accusing just the liberal west county; see today's pd article: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110105/articles/110109761&tc=email_newsletter?p=1&tc=pg&tc=ar . Mendocino is starting their fight on now too against the dumming of smart meters.

snore

[Sybil de Ville]

Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters, so no more accusing just the liberal west county...

'nuff said.