Will 2010 be the hottest year worldwide since record keeping began??

[djinthecountry]

Great job! Especially appreciated you adding the record lows shown across the country.
But the global warming nuts refuse to accept FACTS, so what's a common sense person to do
when there's no reasoning with them?

[someguy]

I did, thank you. To make the absurd claim they invalidate the top climatologists from over 100 nations is criminal. The perps should be in jail for the damage they've done.

If you had really read the hacked e-mails you'd know that those scientists whos e-mail's were hacked are downright frauds. Don't weasel out of it and explain it away by changing the subject of these scientists misdeeds to the credibility of 100's of scientists from different nations. Your just spinning the issue and using a false argument. No one claimed that those e-mails invalidate the top climatologists from over 100 nations, nor did anyone imply it. Your asserting this into the argument as if it were said, and that sir is bullshit. You are deflecting the issue at hand and avoiding all inconvenient information. That is not cool, and has nothing to do with integrity or maturity, its that simple buddy. I've already pointed out that in science you need only to point out one flaw in the hypothesis for it to become invalid. I've pointed out two major flaws in the Man Made Climate Change doomsday hypothesis. It doesn't matter how many people disagree with me, or believe otherwise, a person who has any knowledge and integrity regarding science would know this.

Here is some information about those e-mails. Again, they do not render all science from all the IPCC's authors invalid, and no one is saying it does. There are other arguments that proves the IPCC is full of BS. But for now I'll just point out the BS that came from these scientists in the Climategate scandal which proves that these scientists and probably others are fudging data for political purposes, and that we should question everything no matter who says it. Enjoy!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-uzNBtdYOo

[Barry]

There are rewards for living life with integrity, you should try it sometime.

[Dixon]

I'm deleting this because I accidentally sent it before finishing it. The finished version is posted below.

[podfish]

With both sides claiming scientific backing, and both having enough professional/"expert" publications (that the amateur isn't qualified to accurately critique anyway) to draw on, we clearly are beyond the point where anyone will convince anyone to change their mind. Anyone with even the slightest vulnerability to the confirmation bias has had his critical facilities crippled by all the (mis)information on both sides. Clearly much of what's published on either side is irrelevant, exaggerated or misinterpreted. Even most of the professionals who publish aren't as well versed in the science as you'd like them to be, and the quality of the evidence is often questionable. I think that much is clear even to us dilettantes. I still think the arguments of the deniers aren't all that convincing, but clearly they feel otherwise.
But there sure seem to be a lot more claims that we're going to find out real soon now. I suppose even then, there will be arguments about whether it's AGW or just GW. It's not going to matter much. The anthropos will have to adjust either way.
all that being said, Barry's right - weather stories don't mean a damn thing and it's damaging to your credibility to cite them as evidence that way.

[Dixon]

(I accidentally posted this before it was finished. I deleted that one and this is the finished version.)

There's been a lot of sniping back and forth in this thread. Let's see if we can get some agreement on a couple of things. I haven't taken the time to research both sides of this issue much, so I could easily be wrong about anything here (as always), but here are the essential issues as I understand them vis-a-vis the current discussion:

1. The average global temperature is what we're talking about when we say "global warming". Therefore, anecdotal info such as litanies of record cold snaps in specific areas is irrelevant. To list anecdotal instances of record coldness thinking that this somehow refutes global warming is like cherry-picking specific cases of tobacco smokers who lived to a ripe old age, thinking that that refutes the idea that smoking is unhealthy. The (increased?) incidence of record cold temperatures combined with the many more instances of record warm temperatures yields a picture of increasingly extreme temperatures within the larger trend of increasing high average global temperature--which is exactly what global warming models predict. I'd like to hear you anti-global warming folks acknowledge that basic point, and stop invoking anecdotal cases of low temperature as if they're relevant to the question; they are not. Can I hear some acknowledgment of that, please?

2. Can we at least agree that the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists is that global warming is real and is largely anthropogenic (i.e.,caused by human activity)? Can you anti-global-warming folks acknowledge that, even if you think those scientists are wrong (or engaging in a huge conspiracy)? In other words, can we clear away the obfuscation of thinking that the issue is controversial among the actual experts when in fact the number of climate scientists who disagree with the majority isn't much greater than the number of dissenting scientists on any other issue (there are always a few dissenters; it's part of the process)?

3. Can we also acknowledge that the main financial support for anti-global warming info is from Big Oil and other industries that will lose money if we make the necessary lifestyle changes to combat global warming, and that many (most?) of the anti-global warming scientists receive money from those special interests? Some of the global warming skeptic scientists are the same guys who were paid by Big Tobacco to say that tobacco doesn't hurt us, too! Where big money is offered, there will always be some doctors and scientists who are willing to whore themselves by lending their authority to whatever position pays the most. And note that this issue balances out the financial conflict of interest that Al Gore or any other global warming believer may have. There are people on both sides of the issue who stand to benefit financially, so we must simply bring our skepticism to bear on the claims of both sides--as always!

4. OrchardDweller, can you acknowledge that when Barry invoked the fact that 90+ percent of scientists agree about anthropogenic global warming, your response--a list of articles about surveys of the opinions of ordinary people, not scientists--was irrelevant to the discussion and, in fact, an evasion of the issue he brought up? Or do you really imagine that the opinion of the average Joe Sixpack on the street constitutes some kind of evidence about the validity of a scientific theory (keeping in mind that millions of those folks don't even believe in evolution)?

4. It is true that (pre)historically, global warming has been a boon to many species of plants. In fact, nearly all types of global change, including catastrophic mass extinctions from asteroid impacts, from mega-volcanism and from plain old global temperature change itself, eventually result in a proliferation of life, as the niches vacated by extinction are exploited by new species. But the flippant mention of this fact by Speak2Truth and someguy misses an important point: What benefits some species means the extinction or severe degradation of others. I've already mentioned that much of the proliferation of life after climatic change involves new species exploiting niches vacated by extinction. But even if we assume that the majority of humans survive extreme global warming, we're already starting to see the negative consequences of it: increased severity of storms with concomitant human death, loss and suffering (Katrina, etc.); increased incidence and severity of drought leading to starvation and privation; more people freezing to death in cold snaps due to climate change; loss of crops leading to starvation; ocean level rise threatening island nations; hugely accelerated extinction of species, etc. etc. So, Speak2Truth and someguy, can we drop the flippant references to how wonderful it will be to have a greener planet due to increased CO2--or is plant life more important to you than human life?

5. someguy, can you acknowledge that refuting any particular detail about the presumed mechanism of a theory, such as the long wave radiation issue you mention, does not refute the theory itself unless the theory was based entirely on that mechanism alone? Honestly, you sound like those creationists who invoke specific problems or controversies within the evolutionary science community as if such specific problems refute the entire theory; they usually do not. And can we also agree that the unseemly acts of some scientists who wrote the "Climategate" emails, such as trying to keep dissenting positions out of the IFCC's report, does not in itself invalidate the theory of anthropogenic global warming?

6. I acknowledge that, since other planets in our solar system are showing signs of global warming, some part of our global warming is likely to be caused by extraterrestrial (probably solar) influences. Can we all acknowledge that that doesn't mean that human activity isn't also a major, if not THE major cause?

7. And even if we assume for the sake of argument that global warming isn't anthropogenic at all, can we still acknowledge that it's real and that there may be something we can do to ameliorate its severity so we can pass a reasonably livable planet down to our children--even if that means we have to tighten our belts and live more responsibly and less profligately?

[someguy]

The anthropos will have to adjust either way.
all that being said, Barry's right - weather stories don't mean a damn thing and it's damaging to your credibility to cite them as evidence that way.

Funny that the IPCC uses weather stories such as the flash heat wave in Paris a decade or so ago to back their claims. Is that not damaging to their credibility as well?

[podfish]

Funny that the IPCC uses weather stories such as the flash heat wave in Paris a decade or so ago to back their claims. Is that not damaging to their credibility as well?

yep.

[someguy]

5. someguy, can you acknowledge that refuting any particular detail about the presumed mechanism of a theory, such as the long wave radiation issue you mention, does not refute the theory itself unless the theory was based entirely on that mechanism alone? Honestly, you sound like those creationists who invoke specific problems or controversies within the evolutionary science community as if such specific problems refute the entire theory; they usually do not. And can we also agree that the unseemly acts of some scientists who wrote the "Climategate" emails, such as trying to keep dissenting positions out of the IFCC's report, does not in itself invalidate the theory of anthropogenic global warming?

The long-wave radiation theory presented by the IPCC is a massive part of their hypothesis. It would be incredibly stupid to discount my presented facts about their miscalculations. And I already said (very explicitly) that the Climategate e-mails do not invalidate the theory all-together. Sheesh. How about this fact that does slam the theory right at its base, Co2 is guided by temperature not the other way around. It is a fact. Even Mr. Gore in his documentary proved it for us all to see. It is also a fact that a warmer climate of 3 - 5 degrees Celsius would be a great thing for us as I also pointed out earlier. Why won't you acknowledge these things? You just keep hammering the consensus down our throats as if it proves anything at all. It doesn't. Please understand that knowledge grows and the consensus that is formed in the present day will without a doubt be found untrue in time, just as it always does.

[someguy]

4. It is true that (pre)historically, global warming has been a boon to many species of plants. In fact, nearly all types of global change, including catastrophic mass extinctions from asteroid impacts, from mega-volcanism and from plain old global temperature change itself, eventually result in a proliferation of life, as the niches vacated by extinction are exploited by new species. But the flippant mention of this fact by Speak2Truth and someguy misses an important point: What benefits some species means the extinction or severe degradation of others. I've already mentioned that much of the proliferation of life after climatic change involves new species exploiting niches vacated by extinction. But even if we assume that the majority of humans survive extreme global warming, we're already starting to see the negative consequences of it: increased severity of storms with concomitant human death, loss and suffering (Katrina, etc.); increased incidence and severity of drought leading to starvation and privation; more people freezing to death in cold snaps due to climate change; loss of crops leading to starvation; ocean level rise threatening island nations; hugely accelerated extinction of species, etc. etc. So, Speak2Truth and someguy, can we drop the flippant references to how wonderful it will be to have a greener planet due to increased CO2--or is plant life more important to you than human life?

What you need to understand is that our climate is not and has never been static. Populations of every species on this planet are never static. Nothing in our reality is ever static. So trying to maintain everything the way it is now is absolutely futile. And when we are talking about minor temperature adjustments upwards we can look at history and realize how mammalian and plant life has benefited. This is an important note because the AGW folk paint a doomsday scenario which is false. Of course with any change there will always be winners and losers (remember nothing is static). This is nature my friend, we have to understand this fundamental concept of our planet especially if we are striving to influence it in some manner.

[someguy]

6. I acknowledge that, since other planets in our solar system are showing signs of global warming, some part of our global warming is likely to be caused by extraterrestrial (probably solar) influences. Can we all acknowledge that that doesn't mean that human activity isn't also a major, if not THE major cause?

Just this statement alone about the solar influence on all the planets in our solar system doesn't disprove the AGW theory. What it does do is cast some serious doubt as to whether human activity is even a minor factor in the equation. It should be a no-brainer that when all the planets are warming up as the sun is more active, that the sun is most likely the major cause of our planets warming. At least this should cast some serious doubt in your mind about the AGW theory.

[someguy]

7. And even if we assume for the sake of argument that global warming isn't anthropogenic at all, can we still acknowledge that it's real and that there may be something we can do to ameliorate its severity so we can pass a reasonably livable planet down to our children--even if that means we have to tighten our belts and live more responsibly and less profligately?

Like I said before, we should be happy for our children and their children that they will benefit from a warmer planet. What we should be worried about (environmentally speaking here) is GMO's, Geo-engineering, pollution, fertilizers, water contaminated with all kinds of heavy metals and other toxic material, factory farming, and issues such as mountain top removal. We are wasting our time and effort addressing this non-problem. We should be getting together to stop these real issues that I just mentioned. What do you say?

[OrchardDweller]

Like I said before, we should be happy for our children and their children that they will benefit from a warmer planet. What we should be worried about (environmentally speaking here) is GMO's, Geo-engineering, pollution, fertilizers, water contaminated with all kinds of heavy metals and other toxic material, factory farming, and issues such as mountain top removal. We are wasting our time and effort addressing this non-problem. We should be getting together to stop these real issues that I just mentioned. What do you say?

excellent arguments and information in your posts someguy. Thanks!

BTW how's your oil company doing, big guy? Mine is doing great though we've been getting some tough competition from Al Gore's Occidental Oil company. Well, I better go lie some more about how the world is getting cooler or I may miss out on some profits. See ya at The Grove ;)

[OrchardDweller]

global warming/climate change throughout our solar system

Climate change hits Mars
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...cle1720024.ece

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...s-warming.html

Experimental Link Found Between Sun and Climate
https://www.dailytech.com/Experiment...ticle12804.htm

New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change
https://www.space.com/scienceastrono...04_red_jr.html

Climate Change on Jupiter
https://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080523.html

MIT researcher finds evidence of global warming on Neptune's largest moon
https://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/triton.html

Pluto is undergoing global warming, researchers find
https://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/pluto.html


and you're all to blame!

[OrchardDweller]

then scientists reported on something unusual about the sun in 2008...

Sun Seems Eerily Calm
https://www.livescience.com/space/08...-activity.html

Spotless Sun: Blankest Year of the Space Age
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsys...tless_sun.html

State of the Sun for year end 2008: all’s quiet on the solar front – too quiet
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/...e-solar-front/

NASA: Solar Minimum has Arrived
https://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe...arminimum.html

Solar winds at 50-year-low: Global cooling sign
https://network.nationalpost.com/np/...-year-low.aspx

[OrchardDweller]

and more predictions of global cooling appeared...

Russian scientist says Earth could soon face new Ice Age
https://en.rian.ru/science/20080122/97519953.html

Australian Researchers Warn of Global Cooling
https://www.dailytech.com/Australian...ticle12250.htm

Mexican Scientist Warn that Earth will Enter 'Little Ice Age' Due to Decrease in Solar Activity
https://impreso.milenio.com/node/8091916
https://translate.google.com/transla...F8&sl=es&tl=en

Global temperatures to decrease
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7329799.stm

Old Farmers Almanac: Global cooling may be underway
https://www.usatoday.com/weather/new...-almanac_N.htm

Global cooling gains momentum among scientists
https://deltafarmpress.com/global-co...ong-scientists

Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-1111116134873

Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
https://www.dailytech.com/Temperatur...ticle10866.htm

[OrchardDweller]

and then it started...

It’s snowing on Mars
https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...MNQS1387R3.DTL

'Snowfall' shocks Kenyan village
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7596134.stm

First snow for 100 years falls on Baghdad
https://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM...a1tWeH-tgENiFw

Southern US hit by rare snowfall
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7780562.stm

London has first October snow in over 70 years
https://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/o...weather-london

Global Cooling: Amazing pictures of countries joining Britain in the big freeze
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ig-freeze.html

Saudi Arabia covered with snow in coldest winter for 20 years
https://en.rian.ru/world/20080111/96210251.html

China battles "coldest winter in 100 years”
https://uk.reuters.com/article/homep..._.242020080204

Record Low Temperatures in Western Cuba
https://www.cubaheadlines.com/2009/0...tern_cuba.html

Freezing weather kills over 900 people in Afghanistan
https://en.rian.ru/world/20080216/99388945.html

Cold weather kills 60,000 cattle in Vietnam
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/...nt_6463277.htm

Extreme cold kills 1,000 Tibetan gazelles
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/...nt_6518373.htm

Las Vegas gets heaviest snow fall in 30 years
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-30-years.html

For the First Time in Years, Western Part of Lake Superior Freezes Over
https://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-..._freezes_over/

Record-breaking cold descends on Switzerland
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/science...ml?cid=7120690

NOAA: U.S. breaks or ties 115 cold and sets 63 new snowfall records
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/...wfall-records/

Early Snowfalls In Europe Hit ‘Historic Levels’
https://news.ski-europe.com/2008/12/...ls’-dolomites/

Alaskan Glaciers Grow for First Time in 250 years
https://www.dailytech.com/Alaskan+Gl...ticle13215.htm

Glaciers on California's Mt. Shasta keep growing
https://www.usatoday.com/tech/scienc...glaciers_N.htm

Glaciers in Norway Growing Again
https://www.dailytech.com/Glaciers+i...ticle13540.htm

Dangerously cold temperatures set records in Denver
https://www.thorntonweather.com/blog...rds-in-denver/

Global cooling brings early white Christmas
https://www.vcstar.com/news/2008/dec...ite-christmas/

BBC: The world in 2008 has been cooler than at any time since the turn of the century, scientists say
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7786060.stm

Global Cooling is Here
Evidence for Predicting Global Cooling for the Next Three Decades
https://www.globalresearch.ca/index....t=va&aid=10783

[OrchardDweller]

and it continues on today...

Traffic chaos as snow hits Turkey
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ts-Turkey.html

Now Germany is brought to near standstill
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html?ITO=1490

Worst storm this century traps 300 motorists in Ontario as Canadian town of Sarnia turns into Narnia
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...io-Canada.html

Blowing in today, the new Big Freeze: Heavy snow spells chaos in run-up to Christmas
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Christmas.html

more recent stories already posted elsewhere on this thread

[busyb555]

Don't tell Al Gore, he will want to blame the right an tax us for warming the whole universe.
B

global warming/climate change throughout our solar system

Climate change hits Mars
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...cle1720024.ece

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...s-warming.html

Experimental Link Found Between Sun and Climate
https://www.dailytech.com/Experiment...ticle12804.htm

New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change
https://www.space.com/scienceastrono...04_red_jr.html

Climate Change on Jupiter
https://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080523.html

MIT researcher finds evidence of global warming on Neptune's largest moon
https://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/triton.html

Pluto is undergoing global warming, researchers find
https://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/pluto.html


and you're all to blame!

[Orm Embar]

What we should be worried about (environmentally speaking here) is GMO's, Geo-engineering, pollution, fertilizers, water contaminated with all kinds of heavy metals and other toxic material, factory farming, and issues such as mountain top removal. We are wasting our time and effort addressing this non-problem. We should be getting together to stop these real issues that I just mentioned. What do you say?

I say that there has to be some consequences to pumping to the surface and combusting dead carbon-based forms that have been buried and transformed over 300 to 400 million years. I'm not sure I want to live in a climate that harkens back that far. Regardless of my opinion of the effects human folk can have on a massive and complex planet ecology, I agree that there are many issues to work on.

Many of the issues that someguy mentions above are related to the use of fossil fuels. All of it has to do with making money. Since fossils fuels are one of the key factors, this might be an area where we can get past debates of opinions about anthropogenically-influenced climate change and start sharing what we are doing in our everyday lives to affect the very real and very clearly human-generated issues listed above.

Who wants to start? (I promise to chime in too!)

[Valley Oak]

This is an excellent topic for everyone to chime in on but it requires a new thread with its own title.

Edward

I say that there has to be some consequences to pumping to the surface and combusting dead carbon-based forms that have been buried and transformed over 300 to 400 million years. I'm not sure I want to live in a climate that harkens back that far. Regardless of my opinion of the effects human folk can have on a massive and complex planet ecology, I agree that there are many issues to work on.

Many of the issues that someguy mentions above are related to the use of fossil fuels. All of it has to do with making money. Since fossils fuels are one of the key factors, this might be an area where we can get past debates of opinions about anthropogenically-influenced climate change and start sharing what we are doing in our everyday lives to affect the very real and very clearly human-generated issues listed above.

Who wants to start? (I promise to chime in too!)

[OrchardDweller]

Al Gore sued by over 30,000 Scientists (2008)

[OrchardDweller]

Napolitano Says DHS to Begin Battling Climate Change as Homeland Security Issue

At an all-day White House conference on "environmental justice," Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced that her department is creating a new task force to battle the effects of climate change on domestic security operations.
Speaking at the first White House Forum on Environmental Justice on Thursday, Napolitano discussed the initial findings of the department’s recently created "Climate Change and Adaptation Task Force"...

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article...battling-clima

[Orm Embar]

This is an excellent topic for everyone to chime in on but it requires a new thread with its own title.

Edward

Yes! Would you create the new thread? I'm off to do makeup and hair for the Sebastopol Nutcracker. I'll chime in after this weekend of performances.

You are all invited to walk or pedal your way to see a very talented group of locals perform the Nutcracker at Analy. It sounds like this matinee will be very full but Sat night always has room.

cheers!

[OrchardDweller]

This is an excellent topic for everyone to chime in on but it requires a new thread with its own title.

Edward

Care about the environment? Oil usage? Want to make a BIG impact? Support anti-war candidates. The Pentagon uses more oil than Sweden, for example.

If you're really concerned about the world's environment and the impact on people, look into the subject of DU (depleted uranium) which is being used in bombs in the Middle East (warning: horrific subject but very real).
If you'd like to also know how it's being used against US citizens, watch Gary Null's "Gulf War Syndrome - Killing Our Own".



Also, concerned citizens might look into how countries with centralized power have the worst environmental records (there is no or little private property under these systems).


Al Gore's $30,000 utility bill
https://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?s...rld&id=5072659

Al Gore's energy consumption more than 20 times the national average
https://www.examiner.com/trumbull-co...tional-average

Gore’s electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” renovation
https://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/3531

Cancun Climate Conference 'using as much energy as a village for a year'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...or-a-year.html

After the rape charges and the collapse of Gore's carbon credits company (Blood & Gore - real name), it looks like we're going to have a new Green leader...
https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...green-comeback

maybe he'll take a green tour through the country using his fleet of Hummers

[someguy]

Care about the environment? Oil usage? Want to make a BIG impact? Support anti-war candidates. The Pentagon uses more oil than Sweden, for example.

If you're really concerned about the world's environment and the impact on people, look into the subject of DU (depleted uranium) which is being used in bombs in the Middle East (warning: horrific subject but very real).
If you'd like to also know how it's being used against US citizens, watch Gary Null's "Gulf War Syndrome - Killing Our Own".

Good call my man! Ron Paul 2012!!! &

[Valley Oak]

Ron Paul is a fascist and he would be much worse than Bush was. His racist, pro-corporate son, Rand, is even worse!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul

This is the kind of reprehensible man that you endorse:
""Paul calls himself "strongly pro-life", "an unshakable foe of abortion", and believes regulation or ban on medical decisions about maternal or fetal health is "best handled at the state level". He says his years as an obstetrician led him to believe life begins at conception; his abortion-related legislation, like the Sanctity of Life Act, is intended to negate Roe v. Wade and to get "the federal government completely out of the business of regulating state matters." Paul takes a critical view of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, arguing that it was unconstitutional and did not improve race relations.""

And the appalling list of his "record" just goes on and on!

Please stop supporting such a fascist, religious fanatic, backward individual! It is offensive and disgusting! You should be ashamed of yourself. When you get older you will know better.

Edward

Good call my man! Ron Paul 2012!!! &

[someguy]

Ron Paul is a fascist and he would be much worse than Bush was. His racist, pro-corporate son, Rand, is even worse!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_paul

This is the kind of reprehensible man that you endorse:
""Paul calls himself "strongly pro-life", "an unshakable foe of abortion", and believes regulation or ban on medical decisions about maternal or fetal health is "best handled at the state level". He says his years as an obstetrician led him to believe life begins at conception; his abortion-related legislation, like the Sanctity of Life Act, is intended to negate Roe v. Wade and to get "the federal government completely out of the business of regulating state matters." Paul takes a critical view of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, arguing that it was unconstitutional and did not improve race relations.""

And the appalling list of his "record" just goes on and on!

Please stop supporting such a fascist, religious fanatic, backward individual! It is offensive and disgusting! You should be ashamed of yourself. When you get older you will know better.

Edward

Shows how little you know.

How about you tell us what you do to stop your fossil fuel pollution while your here on this thread?

[busyb555]

Valley Oak just can't keep from calling folks he does not agree with names. Nothing like seeing a lefty out of brain power.

[OrchardDweller]

Ron Paul isn’t racist.

That’s what the media tried to portray him as because he is a threat to the establishment. Dr. Paul used to work in poor areas of Texas giving people free medical care. One of his picks for VP was Walter Williams, the economist.

I think many here would be surpised at how different reality is from what the MSM reports (and some here repeat). Ron Paul supporters racist?

https://www.dailypaul.com/node/16124
https://www.dailypaul.com/node/95169

Dr. Paul has given the only solution to rascim as far as I’m concerned. And it’s not done by the government giving special rights to special groups. It’s done by all of US looking at people as individuals, instead of merely as a member of a larger group. We're all unique expressions, of a greater whole. The way for us to be unified as people is for all of us to become free-thinking, loving, unique individuals again.

Instead of having your views shaped by corporate media, why don’t you have a look at what Ron Paul says yourself.

“Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist.

The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity.

More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct our sins, we should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.”

- Ron Paul

https://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul381.html