What in the World are they spraying?

[LightBrownLeghorns]

Who is Clancy - some political official - because normally people like Mad Miles only go on the defensive to such an extent when one of their own good ole boys gets criticized! I know this from experience. When I was a City Councilman in a corrupt town and publicized accusations of the higher ups stealing city water and not paying improvement fees and such things, all heck broke loose. At least I know what I'm dealing with now.

Our gay newspaper in Dallas had a good column just recently about the psychology of bullies since that is a current issue with gay kids who have committed suicide as they lived in the terrible emotional abuse of daily public humiliation from just such people in my regard.

In looking at my chemtrails bookmarks again, I came across a fascinating story from 2006 I think it is. Ken Welch's ideas are in line with what I stated earlier about the public being sprayed as a way to harm their health. This is SCARY. Below I have copied and pasted some of the highlights from his essay. And where you read in the actual web article the paragraph about aliens, he is clearly quoting a theory. At the end, an eyebrow raising moment came when he addressed that question that one or two people had on here about why would the govt. leaders in charge do this when their own family members would be affected. He mentions a vaccine that would have been given. I don't believe much in vaccines, but looking at the believability of people, they would say, "Sure, I'll order all the missions, this vaccine will protect me." People trust those above them so much! Hope you enjoy the article. And my sympathies to you who know this is a health danger - we are all in this together. The best we can do is avoid being outside in the spraying times like the article says and take care of our health and I believe in telling others. I will have the rest of the highlights in the next post as I went over the word limit for a single posting.

https://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

"First, around 1989 the U.S. government announced a quest to make fires on crashed aircraft less explosive. Spots were run on TV showing a jetliner being crashed in the desert and a large fireball. About a year later it was announced that jet fuel would be reformulated to include a chemical that would help with the problem. This was done, although no one can recall any demonstration of effectiveness. . . .

In a number of cases people were able to obtain samples of jet fuel and have them analyzed. The culprit was clearly pinpointed as the new additive, Ethylene Dibromide.

Ethylene Dibromide is one of the most toxic chemical pesticides ever developed, and also the first to be banned for all uses that would bring it in contact with the environment or any human being. . . .

Several things were immediately apparent about the spray planes. First, they weren't high enough to be making contrails and even if they were, the sprayed liquid was flashing into voluminous white visibility much too fast to have any connection with the process by which moisture in 1000 degree (F) jet exhaust can freeze into visible ice crystals. Second, you could literally watch the crew turn the pumps on and off when they were having fun with their aerial designs and, in the case of planes with older pumping systems that pulsed as they pumped, the sprayed liquid was literally coming out in clumps (there are still some pictures of this around). Third, during the first six months or so, all the photographed planes were military refueling tankers, the aircraft that have the role of implementing Uncle Sam's chemical and biological warfare missions. . . .

Considering that the main event is now relatively imminent, I don't think there's much risk then in going on the record today to predict that chemtrails will end soon." The article was posted on rense.com in January 2006, so I would say his prediction was a dud.

[LightBrownLeghorns]

I edited this right after I pasted the additional highlights because I think I got most of the article in my post which I didn't want. I hope just these few sentences I am writing shows up and you can read the article yourself at rense.com.

https://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

["Mad" Miles]

Claire,

Please ma'am may I have another?!

I feel just fine. My hide is considerably thicker than many others. Apparently.

It's what it takes to be an apologist for a "high official" bent on suppressing the awful truth. Goes with the territory.

Plus there's this vaccination I can't talk about in public... Oops! Let the cat out of the bag!

And now for a moment of seriousness.

Bullying is not simply derision. A sustained campaign of unrelenting derision is bullying. A response to the credulous with humor, even if it is not welcome by those it is directed at, is not bullying. Should it continue, then it is. I understand the distinction. It is clear to me.

And replying to initial and limited derision with the accusation that it is bullying, and then making comparisons to purported "officials" who are covering up the mass poisoning of the planet. Well, I won't characterize that, for fear of feeding the, "You're a bully!!!", frenzy. Suffice it to say I'm not particularly concerned, or alarmed. But it bears mentioning.

Responding to criticism and light derision (believe me, there are much stronger ways to criticize the chemtrail community, your treatment here has been quite respectful, compared to what I've read elsewhere) with hyperbolic accusations of dark conspiracy and highhanded official suppression of "The Truth"? Doesn't lend your cause any credence.

And there's a point at which quick pulling of the "Bully" card, is itself a form of coercion. And no, I'm not saying, "You did it too!!", as a defense. I'm just saying that words have meaning and if one uses them as an attack on something that isn't what you say it is, your motivations and judgment are suspect. And of course, opinions differ, and battle lines are being drawn.

When I read the available material on chemtrails back in the late nineties, the material available online, after a while it became clear that a daisy chain of interlocking websites and a small community of self-appointed experts existed as the primary sources for the, uh, claims. As I am not an atmospheric scientist, nor a chemist, physicist, engineer, aeronautical engineer, etc., etc., I was not and am not in a position to judge the claims for chemtrails. It seems from her/his recent posts, LightBrownLeghorns is a member of that original community. Great! We now have a resident expert on the matter.

In the two previous waves of chemtrail discussion on waccobb (at least two, I don't have an eidetic memory) I've refrained from commenting with my doubts, and lack of fear. (At least that's my memory, knowing me, I probably wrote something, but I don't recall it blowing up into recriminations and accusation of "bullying", denial and truth suppression. On other topics of Woo interest, yes, but not this one.)

A lot of this has to do with history and context. What veterans of wacco percieve vs. what newbies experience. I can't and won't speak for Clancy. But I know I had the instant response to the revival of chemtrail discussion in recent days as, "not this nonsense, again! Aren't there bigger problems, that we can show convincing evidence for, that merit our attention? The Neo-Con reaction to Obama's Neo-Liberal programs for instance? What waste of effort and what a diversion are chemtrails!"

Hey, just my opinion, we're all entitled to have one. I didn't respond with those thoughts, because, what's the point? True believers and conspiracy mongers gotta do what they gotta do. In opposing such lunacy one only adds fuel to their/your fire.

But when Clancy, who I respect and generally agree with, gets slimed with outraged accusations of Bully and Truth Suppressor, well, I've got my waccoons back.

So, anywhoo, carry on. Words speak for themselves.

A small bit of advice though. Telling people to shut up and butt out, because you don't like what they have to say, because of their criticisms and mild hilarity at your antics, is not a particularly good way to get them to leave you alone and ignore you. At least not at first!

Waccobb.net is a Community Bulletin Board. It's the free market of ideas. It's the Agora, the public forum. Everybody and anybody is welcome here. So long as they comport themselves within broad limits of comity. (Not to be confused with comedy, although that's also allowed!)

Only Barry gets to tell people to shut up and go away. Or the person themselves. While I've considered shutting up and going away occasionally, out of despair for the level of discussion here, or the repetition of subjects that never get resolved, or boredom, or pique, or because other venues feed my interest in communication better, I've committed a significant amount of time and effort to participating here. For good or ill.

Some people like my writing. Some people are not too enthused, as in probably despise it and me. So what? That's the risk one takes in being expressive and bold.

I welcome respectful criticism. I am completely capable of defending myself if attacked. That's all I expect from anybody else. We're all adults here, right?

Except for the God Damn Scum Sucking Fucking Socialist BULLIES!!!!

https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=priceiswrong

https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot

[Clancy]

Who is Clancy - some political official...

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

I think it is reasonable now to predict that chemtrails will end soon...

How will you know? You see, I get the feeling you don't understand that contrails will always be created, by any combustion engine under the right circumstances. Your flight to Las Vegas, your car at Lake Tahoe in the winter, a leaf blower on the summit of Mt Everest - they will all create visible contrails that contain noxious, polluting exhaust. How long they remain visible depends on local conditions.

[Claire]

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Well now, Miles ( as in Miles to go to get to the bottom of that letter? lol),
I can certainly tell that you do not have an eidetic (I love my thesaurus, too) memory as I did not tell you to shut up and butt out.
Actually, I am trying to be essentially respectful.

[Clancy]

...it does not seem a huge stretch to believe the findings of the scientists who are discovering astronomical amounts of these toxins in remote areas. I would take their word over any supposed gospel that our military/industrial complex chooses to spew. It would be naive of me not to want to know more.
This is new information for me, although I have seen that the contrails are nothing like those I used to remember when my dad and I would discuss them. The possibilities have shaken my hopes. I am not attacking any one who does not believe in this. I just want to know what in the world are they saying!!
But enough about me. I'm boring myself.

No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.

[leela8]

No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

And no one is suggesting that aliens are doing it--besides you ;)

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.

Yes you are right, there is tragic pollution and abuse of the planet. But this isn;t necessarily an either/or situation--there ARE conspiracies of sorts, that is to say corporate lobbying and payola and good ol boys clubs that keep these things going, and getting worse. You don't need an Alien World Domination Plot to explain a conspiracy, either.

Did you see the list, after the Guatemala deliberate contaminations news came out, of 40 other secret government programs that did things like spray SF from the bay with an infectious agent to see how it would spread? Like infect newborns and old people in charity hospitals? 40 documented atrocities referred to by Francis Collins of the NIH. I have a link somewhere, it includes the horribleness at Tuskegee.

What I'm getting at here is that I believe it's a both/and situation, and that a conspiracy, or planned secret nassties, doesn't necessarily equal reptile aliens and mind control.

[Clancy]

Actually, shape shifting reptilian aliens are a favorite theory among chemtrail conspiracy theorists as a simple google search will show.

Of course there are evil conspiracies in the world, including the ones you mention. But - there's two major differences between the ones you mention and chemtrail conspiracies. The first is proof, and the second is that the ones you mention are localized conspiracies that harm a given subject population, not everyone in the world including the children of the conspirators.

Thanks for your comments, I'm going dancing and shake off this dour subject.

And no one is suggesting that aliens are doing it--besides you ;)


Yes you are right, there is tragic pollution and abuse of the planet. But this isn;t necessarily an either/or situation--there ARE conspiracies of sorts, that is to say corporate lobbying and payola and good ol boys clubs that keep these things going, and getting worse. You don't need an Alien World Domination Plot to explain a conspiracy, either.

Did you see the list, after the Guatemala deliberate contaminations news came out, of 40 other secret government programs that did things like spray SF from the bay with an infectious agent to see how it would spread? Like infect newborns and old people in charity hospitals? 40 documented atrocities referred to by Francis Collins of the NIH. I have a link somewhere, it includes the horribleness at Tuskegee.

What I'm getting at here is that I believe it's a both/and situation, and that a conspiracy, or planned secret nassties, doesn't necessarily equal reptile aliens and mind control.

[Claire]

No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.

You are right, Clancy. No one is disputing that. They are talking about the huge spike in certain heavy metals that these geoengineers admit they are messing with. I am thankful to OrchardDweller for bringing this documentary and topic to my attention.... this horrid, insidious possibility that is a sci-fi movie nightmare, certainly.
I believe that there have been enough links cited that I can go from here and do my own research, although I'd love to hear from local sources what they are experiencing.
As this conversation has too often segued into some alien conspiracy ideology to diminish any validity and ridicule any concerns, I do believe I am done here. Worried, concerned, coughing, but armed with enough info thanks to the serious posters to research it by myself. Thank you all.
claire

[LightBrownLeghorns]

Wow! I just watched the documentary. Awesome job they did, and the activists involved in the campaign to raise awareness on the metalic spraying that occurs. Please, do join in this effort to raise awareness. Think of some credible things to say when you raise the topic. The facts are that aluminum and barium are now showing up in the precipitation, according to scientific tests. The white lines spread and do not evaporate as jet fuel would.

We have seen on this board how people can try to ridicule one who addresses this issue. We have seen the polititians in the movie walk away repeatedly. When I won my city council position, the newspaper published a story on me in the Sunday paper in which I touched on the white lines in our skies. I had only lived in the town one year and did not visit every house in my ward, but I got over 48% of the vote. It was a town of 15,000 people - a solidly middle class town in Kansas with a lot of nice homes and yards.

Some may think you are a nut, but listen, the spraying is real. When you are telling the truth, there is no reason to be anything but proud, strong, and prepared on what to say! If anyone posts on this topic again, please plan out a few things to say. It took me several days to view the movie, and I am about the biggest crusader against chemtrails that I have ever ran into. You posted the URL and hinted in the title what it was about. But like my high school oral interp. teacher would have said, give an introduction - make it entertaining enough to draw people in! There is a black op. program that sprays HIGHLY toxic metals and chemicals over our heads; that is the white lines in the sky that you would see almost daily if you looked up!!

[podfish]

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)

Much nonsense passes through three stages. First, it is offered as truth. Second, it is mildly ridiculed. Third, it is passionately defended.
You can't tell truth from nonsense by the way it's ridiculed. Sometimes an idea or claim really may be true. Sometimes it may be nonsense. Really, the noise surrounding it is just noise. Either it stands up to challenges or it doesn't.

[Sara S]

Yeah, our sweet, lovable government; the same one that tested LSD on people.....



QUOTE=Clancy;124405]No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.[/QUOTE]

[podfish]

Yeah, our sweet, lovable government; the same one that tested LSD on people.....

and left syphilis untreated in the Tuskegee experiment, and exposed soldiers to nuclear fallout, and financed brainwashing experiments at Harvard, and..
I wouldn't put it past government, academia or industry to do (relatively) small-scale experiments that are harmful. I find it a lot harder to accept conspiracies of the level of complexity implied in the chem-trail story. But sure, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they'd sprayed nasty stuff on us a few times.

[someguy]

and left syphilis untreated in the Tuskegee experiment, and exposed soldiers to nuclear fallout, and financed brainwashing experiments at Harvard, and..
I wouldn't put it past government, academia or industry to do (relatively) small-scale experiments that are harmful. I find it a lot harder to accept conspiracies of the level of complexity implied in the chem-trail story. But sure, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they'd sprayed nasty stuff on us a few times.

Ahh and what of the Gulf of Tonkin false flag attack that drew us into the Vietnam war? I guess 58,00 Us troops and 1.1 million Vietnamese troops killed is just small-scale stuff, right Mr. Fish?

[podfish]

Ahh and what of the Gulf of Tonkin false flag attack that drew us into the Vietnam war? I guess 58,00 Us troops and 1.1 million Vietnamese troops killed is just small-scale stuff, right Mr. Fish?

remember the Maine? history trivia time here... Not all government malfeasance is the same. No-one here's arguing that the government is above wrongdoing. But there's a huge difference between military adventurism, and yes, small-scale operations on a group of soldiers, prisoners or patients, and the kind of grand conspiracies that are being claimed here. Manufacturing excuses for military action seems to be prerogative of every nation-state in history. It's quick and easy to do with a small group of people who work well under orders. Industrial-scale secrecy is harder to maintain.

[podfish]

man, now they're spraying from mystery rockets in LA!

https://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7036716.shtml


now THIS one meets more of the criteria for clandestine experimentation (except for the clandestine-ness, since someone inexplicably forgot that launching off the coast of a huge city isn't particularly stealthy). But so far no-one's admitted it's theirs. Atlanteans, maybe?

[Claire]

But so far no-one's admitted it's theirs. Atlanteans, maybe?
[/QUOTE]



Atlanteans in the Pacific! What are you, some kind of kook??

;]

[OrchardDweller]

Please spread the word about this topic.
Maybe if enough people know about it, a 'stay-in' can be organized to shut down the system until the spraying stops or until we get some answers. United we are powerful. That's why there's such an ongoing effort to keep us divided...

[OrchardDweller]

Part 1 of a informative interview with Mendocino's Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch, from 2008.



the links to the following segments should appear in the player window