It seems as though Israeli soldiers WERE attacked on flotilla.

[someguy]

YouTube - Warning: Graphic Video

[Debunker]

Yes, it also seems they fired on the aid workers before they even boarded. It's a moot point anyway, it's against international law to storm a ship in international waters.

YouTube - Warning: Graphic Video

[someguy]

Yes, it also seems they fired on the aid workers before they even boarded. It's a moot point anyway, it's against international law to storm a ship in international waters.

Im not doubting you, but I would like to at least see the evidence of your claim. So please post it. Thanks.

[Hotspring 44]

Im not doubting you, but I would like to at least see the evidence of your claim. So please post it. Thanks.

There may not have been adequate communications between the boats that participated in the flotilla with video via satellite or some other direct electronic communications for such evidence to be posted on the Internet.

Obviously if there were any videos or other information that shows they were fired upon before being bordered by the Israeli military; it only seems logical that the Israeli military, and more officials would confiscate such material and either destroy it or prevent it from international public view.

That has happened in the past in regards to the Israeli military attacking ships in high seas in international waters waters, specifically; in regards to the USS liberty; yes that's right, USS liberty was attacked by the Israelis in international waters in 1967. Then for some apparently undisclosed national security reasons (or whatever) there was a classic (conspiracy theorist, feeding frenzy type of) cover up.

So what I'm saying is that there may be proof somewhere that the Israeli military fired upon the ships before they attempted to board them, but it may have been destroyed by now or it may not be available.

Below is some form of what may be considered proof that there is some sort of collusion somewhere along the way between the United States and Israel for some reason, however, apparently our government is not telling us everything.

The things I copied below. I found on this (USS Liberty Memorial) website which also has more information than what I copied.

Just because somebody is not able to produce proof (because it was covered up or destroyed) does not mean that (it) didn't happen.

That video only show one side of the story therefore by it's very nature it is in amongst itself, biased.
There is always at least two sides to any story.
it is very obvious to me personally that the Israelis are following basic rule of to to the victor go the spoils.

I think that the Israeli military and the way it is treating the situation is far too aggressive, and is actually causing harm to the United States because of our involvement with supplying them military hardware, advice and equipment.

I would say if you follow the (historical) pattern of events surrounding the Israeli military for the last four or five decades you can probably deduce that it was likely that those ships (too) were over-aggressively pursued and extra-judicially persecuted in high seas, in international waters.

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died. The Attack After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone. The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap. The Cover Up Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder. In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at https://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf Anti-Semitism and the Anti-American Apologists The USS Liberty Memorial web site abhors the racist and extreme positions taken by antiSemitic, Holocaust denial, conspiracy theorist and other such groups which often seek to identify with us and to usurp our story as their own. We have no connection with and do not support or encourage support from any of these groups including National Alliance, National Vanguard, The New Order, National Socialists, The French Connection, Liberty Lobby, American Free Press, Republic Broadcasting, USS Liberty Radio Hour, Storm Front or other such groups. We wish harm to no one and encourage social justice and equality for everyone; we seek only accountability for the criminal acts perpetrated against us and can do that without help from hate-mongers. On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic. For detailed and authoritative accounts of the power and influence of the pro-Israel lobby, please see The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy by Mearsheimer and Walt and The Pro-Israel Lobby by Edward Herman. The Betrayal of American Veterans Americans who volunteer for military service effectively write a blank check, payable to the United States of America for an amount "up to and including my life." The United States, in turn, promises to spend these checks responsibly. That bargain implicitly includes a promise by the United States to protect them and to seek retribution against anyone who harms them. In the case of USS Liberty, the United States has failed to keep its end of the bargain.

[Debunker]

Im not doubting you, but I would like to at least see the evidence of your claim. So please post it. Thanks.

I did, about 12 hours ago. Here it is
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...tml#post114868

It's irrelevant anyway, Israel broke international law by boarding by force a lawful vessel in international waters. It's usually called piracy.

[someguy]

I did, about 12 hours ago. Here it is
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...tml#post114868

It's irrelevant anyway, Israel broke international law by boarding by force a lawful vessel in international waters. It's usually called piracy.

I know that Israel is definitely in the wrong here by invading a ship in international waters. The reason why I posted the video of the "humanitarians" attacking the Israeli forces is because I have heard from those same "humanitarians" that they deny attacking the Israeli soldiers. Thats all.

[Debunker]

Language is important. It's a real stretch to say they 'attacked' the Israelis when the Israeli commandos unlawfully boarded by force. Naturally, the Israelis want to cast themselves as victims.

I know that Israel is definitely in the wrong here by invading a ship in international waters. The reason why I posted the video of the "humanitarians" attacking the Israeli forces is because I have heard from those same "humanitarians" that they deny attacking the Israeli soldiers. Thats all.

[Tars]

I would like to at least see the evidence of your claim. So please post it. Thanks.

Looks like bad news, at least in the short run, for the people operating the "flotilla":

From
International Convention on the Arrest of Ships (Geneva, March 12, 1999)

"Article 3
Exercise of right of arrest

1. Arrest is permissible of any ship in respect of which a maritime claim is asserted if:
(a) the person who owned the ship at the time when the maritime claim arose is liable for the claim and is owner of the ship when the arrest is effected; or
(b) the demise charterer of the ship at the time when the maritime claim arose is liable for the claim and is demise charterer or owner of the ship when the arrest is effected; or
(c) the claim is based upon a mortgage or a "hypothèque" or a charge of the same nature on the ship; or
(d) the claim relates to the ownership or possession of the ship; or
(e) the claim is against the owner, demise charterer, manager or operator of the ship and is secured by a maritime lien which is granted or arises under the law of the State where the arrest is applied for.
2. Arrest is also permissible of any other ship or ships which, when the arrest is effected, is or are owned by the person who is liable for the maritime
claim and who was, when the claim arose:
(a) owner of the ship in respect of which the maritime claim arose; or
(b) demise charterer, time charterer or voyage charterer of that ship.
This provision does not apply to claims in respect of ownership or possession of a ship.
3. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 of this article, the arrest of a ship which is not owned by the person liable for the claim shall be permissible only if, under the law of the State where the arrest is applied for, a judgment in respect of that claim can be enforced against that ship by judicial or forced sale of that ship."

[Debunker]

What bad news are you referring to?

Looks like bad news, at least in the short run, for the people operating the "flotilla":

From
International Convention on the Arrest of Ships (Geneva, March 12, 1999)

"Article 3
Exercise of right of arrest

[Hotspring 44]

Are you inferring that the Israelis had or were enforcing some sort of a lean on every single vessel of that whole flotilla because of some sort of a failure by some (so far) unnamed entity to pay for it (all of them)?

Looks like bad news, at least in the short run, for the people operating the "flotilla":

From
International Convention on the Arrest of Ships (Geneva, March 12, 1999)

"Article 3
Exercise of right of arrest

[Tars]

Are you inferring that the Israelis had or were enforcing some sort of a lean on every single vessel of that whole flotilla because of some sort of a failure by some (so far) unnamed entity to pay for it (all of them)?

Nope. But if I read that section of the maritime regulations right, any government can "arrest" a ship in international waters. It may be sorted out differently in an international court, where that government, in this case Israel, may have a hard time proving justification. But in the short term they stopped the flotilla, in international waters, and must believe they have justification to do so.

The actual determination in court, then appeal, will probably take....5 years....a decade?

["Mad" Miles]

So, if I understand you, Tars, "Might makes right".

Yeah, that's gotten us this far, let's stick with it!

[Debunker]

I have no idea what your motivation is, but not even Israel is making such a claim.

Nope. But if I read that section of the maritime regulations right, any government can "arrest" a ship in international waters. It may be sorted out differently in an international court, where that government, in this case Israel, may have a hard time proving justification. But in the short term they stopped the flotilla, in international waters, and must believe they have justification to do so.

The actual determination in court, then appeal, will probably take....5 years....a decade?

[Tars]

I'm not supporting any side in that fight; I think they're all wrong, to use the tactics of violence. Someone asked about the pertinent maritime law, I responded. Read into that what you choose.

[Hotspring 44]

My read on your read is that on the high seas, in international waters, piracy is legal, as long as it is a government doing it.

Nope. But if I read that section of the maritime regulations right, any government can "arrest" a ship in international waters. It may be sorted out differently in an international court, where that government, in this case Israel, may have a hard time proving justification. But in the short term they stopped the flotilla, in international waters, and must believe they have justification to do so.

The actual determination in court, then appeal, will probably take....5 years....a decade?

[Debunker]

I don't see how it's pertinent at all, there's no Israeli claim of property involved.

I'm not supporting any side in that fight; I think they're all wrong, to use the tactics of violence. Someone asked about the pertinent maritime law, I responded. Read into that what you choose.

[sambacat]

The video you offer certainly shows what looks like the aid workers being fired upon from above before the attackers came down from the helicopters. I would certainly do all I could to subdue those attacking me, wouldn't you? What do you think the aid workers should have done under those circumstances?