Placing Animal Welfare over Human Welfare; Plus Obama, Bush, Clinton and Reagan

[Karen the KAT]

I'm once again shocked at the way people are insensitive to other people, but will go to the ends of the Earth to protect a single bird.

Before I go any further: I am a Libertarian, not a Republican, and certainly not a "Liberal". I didn't vote for Bush, and I didn't vote for Obama. They are isomers of each other, and equally part of the problem.

Did any of you not read that she is in the process of healing and that she can't wear earplugs. Many people can't, including myself. They are a safety hazard, and terribly inconvenient. If you have a JOB, and go to WORK, then you probably wake up to an alarm clock, good luck hearing it with earplugs (How many of you actually work a real 40+ hour week at a job with a W-2 that you must be on time for, and how many are living on the dole).

Get rid of the effing bird, there are several hundreds of thousands of them in just West County alone. No body is advocating animal cruelty here, but you all seem perfectly content to let this woman suffer instead of inconveniencing the bird by allowing the bird to dictate her rate of healing.

The bird will not be in pain if you re-locate it, but yet you would have her extend her pain so that it doesn't have to move. Is this in any way logical? (No!)

What is with you people, are you all insane? How insensitive can you possibly be, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

If ever one needed proof that the far left is more hypocritical than the far right, here it is...

To the person with the bird/cat problem, same thing. Did you not pay good money for the land? Is there not millions of hectares of public lands the bird could live on? When the bird finally scratches your cat (quite likely), your cat will get infected, and possibly contract an avian carried disease. After you pay the vet bill, you will feel less inclined to worry about the bird's choice of accomodations.

A simple, natural, and passive solution:

Make a drastic cutback in Kitty's diet, and the problem will solve itself in just a couple of days...

Go worry about the last 30 Rhinos in Borneo people.

Oh, wait, they not as cute as pictures of one of the hundreds of Polar Bears that have been drowning every year since the evolution of the species.

Guess what gullible enablers of big business, Polar Bears would still be drowning if we were in an ice age.

"Oh-my-God didn't my high school science teacher say we were living in the tail end of a minor ice age?" Hmmm, might explain why it's gradually getting warmer, and why only about 2% of those who can claim the title of "Scientist" believe that humans have contributed more than 3% of the total of the current cycle of Global Warming (Happens every 700 years or so, ask the Anasazi). Funny thing is that if they jumped on the Global Warming Gravytrain, they could make lots of money speaking to gullible, partially educated people, and yet the vast majority of those who actually make their living in the field of global weather won't touch it. Probably because they know that when people wake up to the fact that it's just a big scam to make money in non-existent "carbon trades", their reputations will be ruined, and as scientists, their reputation is worth more than a few hundred grand in an offshore account.

The last 10 winters have been some of the most severe on record as have the summers. Where's Global Warming? According to all the theories, our seasons should be getting more alike, not more divergent...

News flash people: Virtually all the major players in the European "Carbon Market" were arrested last week for bilking the public. The courts have examined the evidence and found that: "Carbon traders are trading in a non-existent object, as the whole market was brought about by the public fear mongering of a non-existent climatic event". In other words, the courts have decided after exhaustive examination of the evidence that Al Gore is full of feces (Didn't he invent the internet?), and oh, by-the-way, the whole multi hundred billion dollar market was completely unregulated...

FYI: The Ozone holes have been getting progressively smaller for the last 20 years, and it has nothing to do with the fact that you can't use CFC's to spray your armpits. Wanna know why? Because 30 years ago we had the worst solar storms on record and THEY burnt the holes in the Ozone. Moreover, every electric arc-welder puts out a tremendous amount of ozone (ask any welder why they always have headaches), more than enough to offset all the CFC's that were being released. The whole thing was nothing more than a way to make billions in CFC compliance trades. Just like "Global Warming".

Wondering why I'm digressing in so many directions that apparently have nothing to do with Mockingbirds? Well read on, because I will sum up my thesis quite nicely...

Remember the great Asbestos scare? Surprise, only the blue Asbestos caused lung damage, the white Asbestos fibers were too big. Guess how much blue Asbestos made up the total: Five percent... Amazingly, the companies like DuPont, who make non-asbestos fire proof cloth, like Nomex, made bazillions of dollars, replacing the same Asbestos they had previously sold. Their biggest customers? Governments, who, because of safety laws imposed by the far left, had just finished replacing all their fire-retardant draperies, with fire-proof Asbestos.

Then there's the greatest scam of all; Barry Sotero, AKA: Barrack Hussein Obama. Wondering why he's taking so long to pressure BP? Probably because they were his single biggest campaign contributor, over $378,000 (on paper). The oil companies and Wall Street gave to BHO at a ratio of over 10/1 over McCain. Who headed the efforts to require that all the mortgage companies make loans to people who even on the loan documents, couldn't show the ability to pay them back even after they were allowed to claim welfare money as wages to obtain the loans? BHO. Who is the CEO of the multi billion dollar private trust formed with funneled tax dollars that bought over 10% of Chase so they could triple their investment over it's failure and inevitable government rescue? BHO. Who was ACORN's official attorney? BHO. Who steered tax dollars to the hospital where his wife worked on the condition that she get a $200,000 bonus because of the importance of her work, and yet when she quit, that all-important position was deleted? BHO. I can do pages on Obama's shady and illegal dealings, just on the crap that was known about him before you all decided he was the Liberal Messiah.

Where did the $900 billion Wall Street bail out go? Nobody in the White House seems to know, especially Joe Biden, who in a rare sober moment, said: "We don't know where it all went". Well Joe, the public knows, because even the leftist MSM can't hide the fact that it went to all the Democrat Wall Street executives who caused the whole mess, in the form of multi million dollar bonuses and expenses, as payback for their huge campaign contributions. "But hey, we capped their salaries, doesn't that sound good everyone...".

We had to bail out GM and Chrysler right? (Wrong!) But where did all those billions go? To the UAW bosses that caused them to fail in the first place by the fact that unions by their very nature, enforce mediocrity and stifle innovation, thus making products that were poorly engineered and poorly built. Funny how shortly after that Toyota wound up facing charges by the same government that had just bought their competition for doing the exact same thing they have been doing since the 1950's.

Why did Obama hire as advisors and cabinet, the very same people that history has recorded as making the mess in the first place. Geithner, Emmannuel, Volckner, etc. etc.? How come so many of his crew has been indicted in so many felonies for underhanded dealings? Why is it that virtually everyone that works for Obama, is either under investigation, has criminal charges pending, or has had criminal convictions who's enforcement of sentence has been openly ignored?

Where did all the stimulus money go, it's been removed from the treasury, but where is it now? Why did we have to cram it through Congress before anybody had time to read what they were voting on, if the majority of it was not to be disbursed until 2013? How was this supposed to create the jobs it promised as a basis of it's necessity, in 2009-2010?

If the Health Insurance companies, the drug companies, and the AMA are all the reason why health care is supposedly such a mess, then why were they the biggest supporters of the bill, why did they spend millions in advertising and billions on PACs and downright bribery? If I have health coverage through Blue Cross/CMSP, then why am I considered to be uninsured. When was the last time a hospital turned someone away for emergency care because they had neither funds nor insurance (Illegal)?

So you ask, WTF is your point, what does this have to do with Mockingbirds? Glad you asked!

The same selfish, insensitive mindset that says it's Ok to make a woman suffer so a bird doesn't have to move, is the the same mindset that votes for "Hope and Change" when there isn't a shred of evidence that it can be produced, and yet there is a preponderance of evidence that, that person is a compulsive liar and the complete antithesis of what they claim to be. It's the same mindset that has supported all the scams I have enumerated, even when again, the truth was plain to see. It's the same mindset that has thus enabled all the things that it hates. Self defeative, living in denial, in a made up fantasy World, where feelings and emotions over-ride logic and facts.

There's a tremendous insecurity, and thus selfishness, laziness and false pride at the core of this mindset.

Let's see if I can get one response that actually says: Oh-my-God, have I really been behaving like that, am I really so lost in my own little World that I am insensitive enough to put that poor woman's pain and suffering over a bird, just because it makes me feel good to think that I am making up for my insecurity by helping that bird?".

Now that would be a good thing, but I'm not counting on it. This kind of massive insecurity and extreme closed mindedness is the petrol that leftists use to power their comfortable imaginary World's.

You'll be surprised to know that the far Right operates on exactly the same principals. They are as closed minded as the far Left, (but slightly less hateful about it, and a little more tolerant of those who think differently).

Before you start composing your reply, stop and say this aloud to yourself: "I just stated that it is more important for a bird to not have to move, than it is to help speed the rate of that woman's recovery. I actually said that I believe that her suffering should be extended, just so a bird doesn't have to be inconvenienced".

If that stops your fingers, and starts your mind down a path of introspection, then start thinking about your stance on all the other things I have talked about, and how wrong and misleading they have all been proven to be. Then you can question why it is that you feel so insecure that you want to automatically jump on everything that makes you feel good about yourself, without examining it to see if it is real, or just a scam.

Open your mind, and close your mouth, and enjoy the beginnings of clarity of truth, and factual logic.

I'll happily debate any fantasies you may entertain about the subjects I have spoken of with factual logic who's source's of information shall be universally acknowledged as objective and non-partisanal.

If you can't abide with using objective and non-partisanal information sources, you have already lost, and I shall thus feel no compunctions about shredding you as KATs are known to do.

Good luck....

[Karen the KAT]

The post that started this thread is from March, 2007, so it is likely safe to assume that the original problem sorted itself out, with, I hope, healing sleep for the troubled human and fledged youngsters for the mockingbirds . It would be interesting to know how the situation resolved itself so if someone does know, please, tell us.

Love your member name.

I noticed that, and thought that maybe the issue had arisen again as it was at the top of the thread list.

The issue to me wasn't one of how to get rid of Mockingbirds, there are a lot of ways to do that, but the fact that so many people were willing to let this person's healing, and thus suffering, take a back seat to the bird's address.

The dissertation I composed in response was in response to people automatically and blindly jumping to the left without objectively examining the evidence at hand.

The examples I used are clear cases where so many have jumped on the bandwagon because it sounds like what they want to hear, and thus enabling the very people they are at odds with.

Often a idea is a good one, but it's implementation is being manipulated simply for money, or it is just that, an unsubstantiated idea.

My hope is that more of those on the far left and the far right will start to question their own party as much as they question the other party.

If everyone did this, the politicians would be forced to deal with reality, instead of spreading nice sounding lies, while doing the opposite.

The current crew is just as self serving and uncaring as the last crew, they just talk 180' from the last one, but the result is the same: They get richer, we get screwed.

Be liberal at heart, but be a centrist when you vote, and you'll find that instead of lots of talk, your politicians will actually do some of the things you were hoping for. The POTUS's of recent memory that are remembered most favorably by both sides, are Reagan and Clinton. Personally I'm not a big fan of either, but I did vote for them both, because they were the best compromise, and not surprisingly, they both did an OK job. I like them a lot more than Bush and Obama, who talked to the far right and left respectively, and did nothing the way that anyone wanted it done because it was complete self interest.

Look before you leap: Get more than one opinion, read what the other person has to say, and then make your decision based on info gleaned from objective sources. Living in reality may not be as pretty as living in fantasyland, but it makes life a whole lot easier in the long run, and makes you a more effectual person.

These are just my thoughts, but they are borne out by the thoughts of the great practical philosophers. Be liberal, but be pragmatic at the same time.

If the country is broke, then we can't spend our way out of it. Neither can we offer everyone healthcare, no matter how humanitarian it is. If you do, then you won't have a country left, and everyone will be screwed.

Life is a series of triage decisions:

This is going to die regardless.
This is going to make it regardless.
This will die if it doesn't get help.

You can spend your efforts on only one, which do you pick?

I'm a bitch, but I am both a compassionate bitch, and a realist.

[Claire]

Hey Karen the Kat,
Even if I had all day, I wouldn't have time to read a rant that long. I'm sure you make some sense in there, like questioning the present administration (alas), but it sure sounds like screaming from here and I don't wear earplugs either.
To answer your question, no we're not all insane, we're not all on the dole nor do we all have jobs with W2's. Don't put me in a niche, I won't fit, never have.
I'm up at 7 this morning so I can get going on my full day of self-employment. I may even quit by sundown.

And as to a person's healing, how's your blood pressure?

(How many of you actually work a real 40+ hour week at a job with a W-2 that you must be on time for, and how many are living on the dole).

What is with you people, are you all insane? How insensitive can you possibly be, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

[Claire]

Karen the Kat,

I see that you later wrote a lot more in a tone that maybe I can handle before breakfast. This I will read.

Btw, the quote of the day is a good one:

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle

[Karen the KAT]

Permanent PMS Sister... It's the result of living in a World ruled by men's closed little minds.

Really, I don't hate them. I don't think we should put them in concentration camps,maybe just sterilize all but a genetically correct breeding stock LOL!

(That's a joke people...).

Really though, if everyone was as critical of their own party as they were of the other POV, we wouldn't be in this partisan mess.

I call myself a Libertarian because it's the closest organized theo/poli/philosophy to my ever changing view of how I think things would best work for society as a whole.

In my convoluted mind, your politics IS your religion, just like "YOU are your religion", they're all intertwined. Call it your "philosophy of life", or whatever you like, just don't let it get static, because then your mind is closed.

This doesn't mean I automatically support a person just because they use the label. For example; Rand Paul is just a Republican who has used the label of "Libertarian" to avoid the stigma of being a Republican. Yet his father calls himself a Republican, but actually thinks like a Libertarian. Dennis Kuchinich talks like a Liberal, but economically acts like a conservative. (If you think that I like Ron and Dennis, you're right, I think that of the existing viable players, they would make a good team as they are both idealists, but also realists)

Now I'll really blow your minds, my ideal choice of a coalition government would be a combination of Hilliary and Sarah. I know, complete opposites right? Not...

They are both mothers, and as such I think you all would be surprised at how much they actually have in common. Certainly they both know how to talk tough but compromise for the greater good. That's what mom's do

Don't bother with the Sarah bashing, I'm not a Sarah fan, just speaking hypothetically here based on those who would actually have any real hope of making it into the primaries if they were held today and both parties had open seats.

The point I'm trying to get across is that it's going to take compromise to move forward.

The winds of change are blowing. Virtually all the Incumbents up for re-election are going to be replaced come November, and they are at this point, far, far more likely to be replaced with right leaning, than left leaning candidates.

At this point, a Republican controlled Congress looks almost a certainty, and at that point Impeachment proceedings are not only possible, but likely. That kind of partisanal politics is not going to help this country at all.

As much as I would like to see Obama led out of the WH in handcuffs ,to join Bush in a small windowless cell in Leavenworth. that kind of divisiveness isn't what we need right now, we all need to come together, meet in the middle, and make some compromises, or we are going to follow Greece, and China isn't going to play Germany to us.

If you want to avoid this swing to the right, the best you can really hope for (In more ways than one), is a balanced Congress, and in order to do that, it's going to take compromise on the part of Liberals, and I don't mean just the politicians, but as voters and individuals. You've only got a few months to show the country that you are not as closed minded as you appear to be, because YOUR attitude reflects on your candidates.

This is the same message I told my friends on the right in 2008, and they didn't listen...

[Claire]

LOL. geez Karen, you really are a Bitch. and funny.

I was going to send some gratitude , then I kept reading and just wanted you to shut up. lol!

keep swinging, you might hit something.
you missed big time on " the ruled by men's litttle minds."
The men I hang with have great minds and very cool attitudes. So do the women.
Just lucky, i guess.

Permanent PMS Sister... It's the result of living in a World ruled by men's closed little minds.

Really, I don't hate them. I don't think we should put them in concentration camps,maybe just sterilize all but a genetically correct breeding stock LOL!

(That's a joke people...).

[Dynamique]

What the heck does all this have to do with mockingbirds?

[Claire]

nothing anymore. i'm done.

What the heck does all this have to do with mockingbirds?

[Karen the KAT]

[QUOTE=claire ossenbeck;114755]LOL. geez Karen, you really are a Bitch. and funny.

I was going to send some gratitude , then I kept reading and just wanted you to shut up. lol!

keep swinging, you might hit something.
you missed big time on " the ruled by men's litttle minds."
The men I hang with have great minds and very cool attitudes. So do the women.
Just lucky, i guess.


No, not lucky, you are just being wise. I'm betting that as you have matured, you have also gotten more selective about who you allow into your life.
There are some decent men out there, but you have to pick and chose like everything else in life. The problem is that there are a preponderance of men who are not of good character.

The aggressiveness that it takes to rise above others and become a business leader, politician, athlete, etc. is different than our aggressiveness, for them it extends to the physical as well. It goes hand in hand with their sex drive, meaning it's always on, and it rules their every thought. They simply can't turn it off. This is why there is a roughly 40/1 ratio of men's prisons, to women's.

Some men learn to tone this down except when it's needed, or they may just have a low testosterone level, and these are the gentlemen such as you describe. Sadly, they are not the majority.

The World of men is more physically competitive, while ours is more mentally competitive. There is an old stereotype, that larger more aggressive, more male, men are less intelligent than smaller more docile, more feminine men. Like all generalities, it's based on reality. Not too many of the great scientists have ever been big, or athletic men. Einstein and Neils Bohr were two of the exceptions to this rule, and neither were anything near being physically aggressive. The really hyper-intelligent ones like Oppenheimer, and Feynmen, were all thin and rather feminine, much like Marie Currie and and Lise Meitner,

Thousands of books have been written about the subject, so I'll leave it at that except to say that the World's few Matriarchal societies are not only the most peaceful, fair, cohesive and efficient, but surprisingly the men are among the World's happiest.

Testosterone is the problem, it effects everything they do, because once they reach puberty, that constant, compulsive sex drive and aggressiveness for the rest of their lives.

I think if they went through a male menopause, where their body stopped producing male hormones, not only would there not be nearly as much war, pain and suffering, AND, They wouldn't go bald...

Go figure...

[wbreitman]

Elizabeth I, Mme. de Stael,.Catherine the Great, Golda Meir, Indira Ghandi, Margaret Thatcher, etc., etc., etc. ... no testosterone?

W