Ever get the feeling that you have been betrayed?

[NorseViking869]

Well it has happened to me quite recently.

I am new to being poly and still learning the ropes. My girlfriend was also quite new to poly as well. We both were learning how to set healthy boundaries and respect each others boundaries while learning about open and honest active listening.

Then she wanted to ride home with someone I did not trust from a prior meeting with him. Well the repercussions of my concern were treated as if it was pure jealousy. I rode home with them and had a delightful and insightful conversation that gave me a new perspective and opened up my eyes, but all my ex could see was that I was infringing on her boundaries, while she did not respect mine.

Well when we got to a mutual friends house, things seemed fine till I addressed concerns about how I felt things should have been done a little differently. Well then it was like a nuclear bomb went off for her for me suggesting that and she left.

The next day things seemed to be back to normal and we talked about the things we had learned and I was hopeful I could surprise her with a ring at the fair; however she moved in to the mutual friends house and was planning on dumping me rather than to discuss how she was feeling and address the solutions I was already working on. Not knowing she was getting solace from these married friends of mine, I asked for solace myself.
I got none and I was treated as if I was trying to put them in the middle of a domestic issue (which was not the case).

I respected my girlfriends boundaries, but was actively talking to any friend I could find for comfort and advice. However, my exes mom called and was worried sick about her and was providing me comfort. I come to find out, that comfort and solace were no longer what they were looking for, they were now a triad, my ex was the secondary and unicorn, and she did not need me and they did not want me. My Ex has since been rude and brash about her feelings, which I feel was disrespectful as I felt she ran away rather than try to understand why I reacted the way I did. They disrespected me in not being friends to me when I needed it, and becoming involved with her the same day she officially broke it off.

Only the wife feels like she needs to apologize and remain my friend in all this, claiming I am 100% right in that we all should have talked this all out (as I would have trusted them as her play partners and such if she asked.)and respected my feelings as well as helped us both. I feel like my boundaries were as disrespected as the ones that they originally felt I was breaking. I feel as though not only did I lose the love of my life, but my so-called best friends as well. I am torn whether to accept the wife's offer of a sit down to share feelings, as it is too late to repair the damage caused by all parties.

On a positive note I hope they are happy as I feel they are good for each other;however, they lost a good friend, and my ex lost a good man.

[mykil]

Sorry for you discomfort in the area of relationships dude. Every one fights In this world, if comfort is all you need than ask for it, If understanding is the issue than an education is in order. Education goes a long ways in the world we live in, if you can learn from your mistakes than it shall be, when she is done with the married couple and wants back into your life will you let her?
Although I do not conceder myself poly I do date a few others at all times, in relative form this is what is good for me. My eyes tend to wonder and I am happy with multiple partners, I have learned over the years that this is who I am and this is the education I have given myself. In your case I believe the words spat, quarrel, argument and allot of other issues are forming around you, you my friend need to learn to turn the page, calm down and walk in a different direction. Turn the other check and let you lovely girlfriend have her space, if she returns in due time so be it, if she does not let her be and move on. There really isn’t much else you can do so try to be happy for her and go out and bang a few others and make new friends. Love is the hardest of all circumstances and when you catch it sometimes it is a drag.
Look at it this way with her out of the way you can be free to do whatever you want till she comes to her senses and comes back to you, which if she loves you she will. This usually only takes about two to three months and if it becomes a continuous cycle you might even learn to enjoy it!
Everyone fights, gays, blacks, dykes, Mexicans, Italians and now even you. This is a fight you are having and that is that, if it shall continue is up to you, if you refuse to fight, turn you back and walk away only time shall tell, if you continue to feed on hate and anger and jealousy she too shall feed and it will definitely become a recurring event. If you walk away and break off contact while trying to deal with the pain of love in your own heart you shall prevail and in a good way that is an educational event as well. Why torture yourself when you need not? Harden your heart if you tend to want to stay poly and enjoy life, go find a few more and comfort you needs! P~E~A~C~E and that is my two cents…

[NorseViking869]

It is not so much the loss of my lover but the loss of these friends. I was doing all that you said in the reply. I have been reading and learning, doing things to better myself and my situation, lot of relaxation. I feel that the way the situation was handled was all wrong. I feel that the married couple crossed many respect lines and only one of them wants to be my friend. I do not see that as possible. Are they willing to make amends for there actions?

It is a small comfort to know they were not my friends for very long, but it hurts that they would do that. I will admit that they would seem like a great fit for her. When we were dating we wanted to find someone for both of us. They live closer to her, they have a bitchin' house, they are attractive and so is she and they all get along on many levels, but so did I.

I feel like my friendship meant nothing to them until I was gone. I also feel that my ex refuses to see how I have grown and learned. She is running away from problems rather than fixing them. It is her choice and her life, but it sucks to see people make bad decisions. Since we were all poly, things like this should have been spoken about up front, not behind closed doors. They do not know what I wanted and how it might have fit with them. Also I feel as though negotiations should have been on the table and were not. At least my side was not ever taken account for.

Sorry for you discomfort in the area of relationships dude. Every one fights In this world, if comfort is all you need than ask for it, If understanding is the issue than an education is in order. Education goes a long ways in the world we live in, if you can learn from your mistakes than it shall be, when she is done with the married couple and wants back into your life will you let her?
Although I do not conceder myself poly I do date a few others at all times, in relative form this is what is good for me. My eyes tend to wonder and I am happy with multiple partners, I have learned over the years that this is who I am and this is the education I have given myself. In your case I believe the words spat, quarrel, argument and allot of other issues are forming around you, you my friend need to learn to turn the page, calm down and walk in a different direction. Turn the other check and let you lovely girlfriend have her space, if she returns in due time so be it, if she does not let her be and move on. There really isn’t much else you can do so try to be happy for her and go out and bang a few others and make new friends. Love is the hardest of all circumstances and when you catch it sometimes it is a drag.
Look at it this way with her out of the way you can be free to do whatever you want till she comes to her senses and comes back to you, which if she loves you she will. This usually only takes about two to three months and if it becomes a continuous cycle you might even learn to enjoy it!
Everyone fights, gays, blacks, dykes, Mexicans, Italians and now even you. This is a fight you are having and that is that, if it shall continue is up to you, if you refuse to fight, turn you back and walk away only time shall tell, if you continue to feed on hate and anger and jealousy she too shall feed and it will definitely become a recurring event. If you walk away and break off contact while trying to deal with the pain of love in your own heart you shall prevail and in a good way that is an educational event as well. Why torture yourself when you need not? Harden your heart if you tend to want to stay poly and enjoy life, go find a few more and comfort you needs! P~E~A~C~E and that is my two cents…

[countrygirl]

Most people feel they have been betrayed here and there and most acutally have, but they are not the perpetrators. Take solace in the fact that you didn't act in a selfish, mis conceiving way. From your story it seems you did get disrespeted and they didn't seem to care for you really. The wife who is trying to talk and be friends with you seems to be at least moral about your difficult situation. I understand the pain of being treated as unloved and disrespected by people you thought were friends and especially someone you loved. That's a hard one, but realize if they don't come around soon to come and talk to you about your relationship to make peace they weren't truly true friends. Some people are like that and don't even understand the blessing a true friend is, especially because it is so rare. You have to observe how people are before you let them into your heart. Most people have little signs you can observe wether they are a giving, loving person, wether they are basically self-need based, wether they are genuine in their words and heart. I do suggest you harden you heart before you get inovolved with people cause you should be sure who's hands your handing your heart over to, however I think hardening your heart is quite sad and once you trust and love someone again you should leave your heart open to them. "It's a fool who plays it cool, by making their world a little colder" Good Luck, Stay around good people, friends to heal and Stay Safe

[NorseViking869]

thank you for those words countrygirl!

Most people feel they have been betrayed here and there and most acutally have, but they are not the perpetrators. Take solace in the fact that you didn't act in a selfish, mis conceiving way. From your story it seems you did get disrespeted and they didn't seem to care for you really. The wife who is trying to talk and be friends with you seems to be at least moral about your difficult situation. I understand the pain of being treated as unloved and disrespected by people you thought were friends and especially someone you loved. That's a hard one, but realize if they don't come around soon to come and talk to you about your relationship to make peace they weren't truly true friends. Some people are like that and don't even understand the blessing a true friend is, especially because it is so rare. You have to observe how people are before you let them into your heart. Most people have little signs you can observe wether they are a giving, loving person, wether they are basically self-need based, wether they are genuine in their words and heart. I do suggest you harden you heart before you get inovolved with people cause you should be sure who's hands your handing your heart over to, however I think hardening your heart is quite sad and once you trust and love someone again you should leave your heart open to them. "It's a fool who plays it cool, by making their world a little colder" Good Luck, Stay around good people, friends to heal and Stay Safe

[NorseViking869]

Faced with what has happened to me in this related thread:>https://www.waccobb.net/forums/consc...html#post95980, I would like to ask a question from this enlightened community. Would you accept the apology of any of these people involved? The reason I ask is soon I will be meeting the wife. She is very sad and heart broken that I am feeling betrayed and lost trust in her and her husband.

[NorseViking869]

Wow. So quiet you can hear a pin drop. I write a rhetorical post and I get tons of responses both public and private. I ask a question, all I hear is cricketts.

[Barry]

Wow. So quiet you can hear a pin drop. I write a rhetorical post and I get tons of responses both public and private. I ask a question, all I hear is cricketts.

Ok, I'll chirp in...

My general policy is to always forgive, especially if people can see your point of view and take responsibility for their actions. They might apologize, or see things differently, or the may say they just did the best they could do under the circumstances.

Trusting again is another story. That's a question of what your estimation of the person's integrity and honesty and how much you think they care about you.

My sense, from what you shared, is that wife seems to be a good person. I would suggest airing all your feeling and concerns and seeing/feeling what happens.

[babaruss]

Apologies are more for the comfort of the person apologizing than for the person receiving the apology, so why not accept it, to help ease that person along whatever path they are on.

I cannot subscribe to having been betrayed by any person I am in a relationship with. People are here for awhile and then they move on...for whatever reason. I fully expect this from anyone I am involved with....after all I am not in control of anyone's (constantly in flux) feelings, desires, or sudden lack thereof.
I would automatically assume that the person who becomes angry at me for her choice/decision to move on is someone who is not completely able to move on in a mature manner. I would simply choose not to take that decision personally. Taking what life tosses at us personally seems to cause a lot of pain and frustration, especially where relationships are concerned.
This is only my take on this issue and certainly may not apply at all to your situation.
I do however try to remind myself that not everything that goes wrong is 'my fault'....and that the other person doesn't need to be necessarily 'faulted' either.
Babaruss

Faced with what has happened to me in this related thread:>https://www.waccobb.net/forums/consc...html#post95980, I would like to ask a question from this enlightened community. Would you accept the apology of any of these people involved? The reason I ask is soon I will be meeting the wife. She is very sad and heart broken that I am feeling betrayed and lost trust in her and her husband.

[Cascade]

Faced with what has happened to me in this related thread:>https://www.waccobb.net/forums/consc...html#post95980, I would like to ask a question from this enlightened community. Would you accept the apology of any of these people involved? The reason I ask is soon I will be meeting the wife. She is very sad and heart broken that I am feeling betrayed and lost trust in her and her husband.

You might ask the wife if she's willing to listen to your feelings. If she is, then talk about your feelings without making her wrong: What happened, the story that you have about what happened, your feelings, and what you would like in the future. When you feel heard, ask her for her perspective on the situation, in a neutral, nonblaming way.

Forgiveness is for your own sake - if you carry anger and resentment towards these people, it hurts you more than it does them. As Barry pointed out, trusting again is another story. If you decide you want to continue being friends, the group of you might want to have some conversations about how to be honest and responsible in the way you approach nonmonogamy.

For resources on polyamory, see my website, www.aphroweb.net.

Cascade Spring Cook, providing poly and relationship coaching

[Braggi]

Faced with what has happened to me in this related thread:> ... I would like to ask a question from this enlightened community. Would you accept the apology of any of these people involved?

Yes.

You've experienced the old poly mathematical formula 2 + 2 = 3.

Anyone who's been poly for a few years has seen this one. You wound up with the lonely end of this one. That's sad, but you're now on the outs of this relationship. The decisions about the future are all yours. These folks might invite you back some day, but I wouldn't count on it if I were you. I do like to keep channels open to former lovers, but sometimes too much pain gets in the way. The pain muddles thinking, clouds judgement and can make you a less ideal partner in other ways. Are you willing to become an occasional playmate for these three? Somehow I doubt it, but there are always possibilities. That is, there are possibilities unless you close the door completely.

Go ahead and meet with her. Be as kind as you are able. Talk about your feelings without appearing pitiful, if that's possible. (For me sometimes it's not so I understand.) Allow channels of communication to remain open. Sometimes situations change and you'd like to keep possibilities open if you can.

I feel for you, but I also, as Mykil does, see your opportunity for freedom as a blessing. Try to put on a good cheer and spend some time doing something you love. Maybe you'll meet somebody exciting. At least you'll be doing something you love.

Best of luck!

-Jeff

[NorseViking869]

@ Braggi:

Actually that is not how the situation happened. There was a lot of lying and lack of negotiations going on. I thought that in poly you were supposed to be up front and honest. The issues that happened were there was still some healing and process that needed to be done and was not. There were two people who I thought were friends whp preyed upon someone in a vulnerable state. This is not what people in poly are supposed to do. Poly is about open communication, honesty with all parties involved. I felt like there was a lot of back stabbing and a lot of selfishness that went on. I feel that it gives a black eye to those who practice poly in a healthy way.

Yes.

You've experienced the old poly mathematical formula 2 + 2 = 3.

Anyone who's been poly for a few years has seen this one. You wound up with the lonely end of this one. That's sad, but you're now on the outs of this relationship. The decisions about the future are all yours. These folks might invite you back some day, but I wouldn't count on it if I were you. I do like to keep channels open to former lovers, but sometimes too much pain gets in the way. The pain muddles thinking, clouds judgement and can make you a less ideal partner in other ways. Are you willing to become an occasional playmate for these three? Somehow I doubt it, but there are always possibilities. That is, there are possibilities unless you close the door completely.

Go ahead and meet with her. Be as kind as you are able. Talk about your feelings without appearing pitiful, if that's possible. (For me sometimes it's not so I understand.) Allow channels of communication to remain open. Sometimes situations change and you'd like to keep possibilities open if you can.

I feel for you, but I also, as Mykil does, see your opportunity for freedom as a blessing. Try to put on a good cheer and spend some time doing something you love. Maybe you'll meet somebody exciting. At least you'll be doing something you love.

Best of luck!

-Jeff

[Braggi]

...
Actually that is not how the situation happened. There was a lot of lying and lack of negotiations going on. ... I feel that it gives a black eye to those who practice poly in a healthy way.

Yeah, poly is rarely totally smooth. We're all learning, and most of us are trying to do better as we muddle along. Sounds like this group really avoided its responsibility when it came to you. I'm sorry to hear that.

And now? Gotta pick up the pieces and move on. Gotta count the blessings rather than wallow in the loss. Getting from here to there is challenging but doable. Been there. Doin' it. Every day.

See you on the path.

-Jeff

[Cascade]

@ Braggi:

Actually that is not how the situation happened. There was a lot of lying and lack of negotiations going on. I thought that in poly you were supposed to be up front and honest. The issues that happened were there was still some healing and process that needed to be done and was not. There were two people who I thought were friends whp preyed upon someone in a vulnerable state. This is not what people in poly are supposed to do. Poly is about open communication, honesty with all parties involved. I felt like there was a lot of back stabbing and a lot of selfishness that went on. I feel that it gives a black eye to those who practice poly in a healthy way.

You're absolutely right - polyamory is about open communication and honesty. However, we're all human and people can make mistakes. Many people who claim to practice monogamy also don't do it well. What many of us have seen is that the openness and honesty is required in order to make polyamory work. Polyamory is a growth path - it requires consciousness and awareness, and it has a lot of challenges.

The question is, can you and your friends take this as an opportunity to learn and grow? If so, however painful it is right now, it could be something you look back on with gratitude. Even if they want to withdraw, can you look at your own feelings and reactions? Were there ways that you could have behaved differently? Was your girlfriend trying to tell you that things weren't working for her, and you didn't hear? If your friends had told you they were considering a relationship with your girlfriend, how would you have reacted? Can you explore your feelings of rejection and what that meant to you? What can you learn from this situation that will help you create a happier outcome in a future relationship? Or help you recognize when things aren't turning out the way you hoped, and help you let go without anger?

I'm committed to helping people have better relationships, whether mono or poly. To help those interested in polyamory, I've compiled resources at Polyamory Resources

I'm also writing up the stories of real people who are practicing polyamory. See Polyamory Stories

The thing you need to remember is that there's only one person whose behavior you can change. You may need to find a safe place to vent your anger and frustration, or find some other way to mourn your loss, but in the end, you do have choice about how you respond to the way others treat you. You can go away embittered, or you can emphasize the positive about what happened, or whatever else you choose to do.

Wishing you growth and good friends who are supportive,
Cascade Spring Cook, providing poly and relationship coaching
www.aphroweb.net

[ladybug5]

Try Monogamy next time??
I know its a little weird..Maybe its just me...

Wow. So quiet you can hear a pin drop. I write a rhetorical post and I get tons of responses both public and private. I ask a question, all I hear is cricketts.

[mykil]

Just goes to show you; every mind is not the same, although we all appear to be equals walking on this earth, we all have different paths. Some paths are written in stone while others have to fight their way to try and get a glimpse of what their paths might entail, while others really don’t even have to worry because their mind really does not presume to even care.
I think the same goes for sexual orientation for sure. Some rely on one partner and have little room for anyone else in their lives. While other prefer to roam free and take advantage of the free open minded folks that need more love and affection in general. Who you are is not really up to you, you cannot really choose to be monogamous as one puts it any easier than choosing to be straight, gay or bi. It is in one’s mind and as we all know minds cannot be changed.
Although simple monogamy seems to be a fair glimpse into our society, truly you are a tad bit overconfident to boldly ask someone to change their sexual orientation all together. That is like asking telling the pope there is really no god and he needs to stop praying. Monogamy is not for everyone just as being a heterosexual is not for everyone.
I do understand where Tom is coming from. He is open and I am betting emotional to a fault. I really do believe he needs to learn from his mistakes and achieve that education toward his goals in particular. Learn from your mistakes Tom learn! Look into your chart, you birth cart and see what you truly are, see why you are the way you are and try to understand whom you are to get a better grip on yourself your surroundings and you own true soul. You might be surprised what you can learn about your own mentality. Move on… Ladybug I am glad you are mono, someone has to do it!

[Braggi]

Try Monogamy next time??
I know its a little weird..Maybe its just me...

Don't know about weird, but it's certainly unnatural.

-Jeff

[tezor]

Why do you say it's unnatural? Geese mate for life, Dorado (a fish) do as well, and with a little research you could find many more, what's unnatural about it? Peace, b

Don't know about weird, but it's certainly unnatural.

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Why do you say it's unnatural? Geese mate for life, Dorado (a fish) do as well, and with a little research you could find many more, what's unnatural about it? Peace, b

There are many species that "mate for life" but none of them will miss an opportunity to have sex with another even at the risk of death (in the case of some of the great apes). There are no monogamous animal species, certainly not humans. Monogamy is a fairly recent invention in human tribes and coincides with the rise of patriarchy.

-Jeff

[countrygirl]

Of course there are monogamous animal species. Hundreds actually. Geez, your such a zeolot. Have you ever even had one partner? Enough with the preaching. Most people are monogamous naturally basically. Most people only have a few polygomous moments in their life, which is perfectly natural too. It's usually an experimental phase in people. It is very unusual to be mostly poly and if that's your way for yourself fine, just realize most people are not happy that way and to try to convince them to be like you is completely self centered.

There are many species that "mate for life" but none of them will miss an opportunity to have sex with another even at the risk of death (in the case of some of the great apes). There are no monogamous animal species, certainly not humans. Monogamy is a fairly recent invention in human tribes and coincides with the rise of patriarchy.

-Jeff

[NorseViking869]

What about the Seahorse and Penguins? Aren't they completely mono and mate for life?

There are many species that "mate for life" but none of them will miss an opportunity to have sex with another even at the risk of death (in the case of some of the great apes). There are no monogamous animal species, certainly not humans. Monogamy is a fairly recent invention in human tribes and coincides with the rise of patriarchy.

-Jeff

[Garden Goddess]

I think that at the beginning of every relationship, if each person is honest about the relationship parameters they are comfortable with, and all parties agree, then great! (whether monogamous or multi-person arrangement.)

If all parties don't agree, then they don't have to be in a relationship.

The problem arises sometimes, when one of the partners is not so into an open relationship, and they fear that if they don't go along with it their lover will flee, and in that situation feelings naturally get hurt.

Also, jealousy does arise when you least expect it, even when you've gone into a situation you feel you have fully prepared for. Yet, human beings are unpredictable and they change. They also change their minds and sometimes don't tell the truth.

Forgiveness and good relations with all current and former lovers is a good idea, I think.

That's my two cents.

[Timothy Gega]

Ok, I'll chirp in...

My general policy is to always forgive, especially if people can see your point of view and take responsibility for their actions. They might apologize, or see things differently, or the may say they just did the best they could do under the circumstances.

Trusting again is another story. That's a question of what your estimation of the person's integrity and honesty and how much you think they care about you.

My sense, from what you shared, is that wife seems to be a good person. I would suggest airing all your feeling and concerns and seeing/feeling what happens.

I couldn’t agree with you more, Barry. Forgiveness is truly the key to any reconciliation.

I realize that many people either can’t believe how truly freeing this is and many do not believe that (we humans) have this capability to forgive, but it is the one thing that can save so many relationships. Forgiveness can also save ourselves from self-torture too.

Sometimes, a partner wants to do things that can hurt us, but they need these experiences to grow from also. Sure it hurts, but, it’s not always about us, (ourselves). Sometimes we need to be the stepping stones for others enlightment.

Sometimes, out of these bad situations, comes some good (later on). Some people just aren’t that good at expressing themselves (in the moment) and patience is the rule here. Only time will tell, (unfortunately) we all want it yesterday.

But, the fact is: people betray people all the time. It’s as old as sin itself. So, the remedy for that is forgiveness. This helps us get past our victim mentality and into a new spiritual mastery. We can learn about our own strengths and weaknesses too.