'Spooky Action At A Distance' Of Quantum Mechanics Directly Observed

[JuliaB]

'Spooky Action At A Distance' Of Quantum Mechanics Directly Observed

ScienceDaily (Mar. 4, 2009) — In quantum mechanics, a vanguard of physics where science often merges into philosophy, much of our understanding is based on conjecture and probabilities, but a group of researchers in Japan has moved one of the fundamental paradoxes in quantum mechanics into the lab for experimentation and observed some of the 'spooky action at a distance' of quantum mechanics directly.


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'Spooky Action At A Distance' Of Quantum Mechanics Directly Observed

[Philip Tymon]

I'm with Einstein, who was one of the discoverers of Quantum Mechanics, who stated that quantum mechanics was an "incomplete theory". "Spooky action at a distance" was one of the primary reasons he felt that way, and I agree. While the phenomena appears to be real, our understanding of it seems to me to be incomplete. By what possible mechanism can particles separated, potentially, by billions of light-years, communicate with each other instantly? If you believe in magic, well then, you can just believe in anything, but if not, then it requires some sort of explanation. Of course, much in quantum mechanics appears not just counter-intuitive, but even paradoxical. Even more so leading one to believe it is an incomplete theory. Come back in 1,000 years.

[JuliaB]

thanks for that reflection...

I believe one of the main reasons, along with David Bohm and many others, that we have difficulty understanding QM is because our thinking is still conditioned very much by a classical approach, i.e. Newtonian mechanics. It's like trying to explain green to someone who's eyes have a filter that only sees red, (to use a pretty loose analogy). It may be that the theory is incomplete, but I think it is more the maturity of our understanding (our brain) as a whole that needs evolving.
Shamans maybe couldn't do the math, but I bet they could probably understand the spooky action stuff in QM better than most. Anyone who's done real altered states probably knows what I'm talking about. Maybe what we need is a super brainiac Physicist-Shaman who can translate between the worlds ;)

Of course, I agree that an appeal to magic is counterproductive. I just think that thinking more holistically about the nature of reality is going to get us closer to the truth--not just left brain stuff. That's why a "science and spirit" discussion can be so valuable.

Julia

I'm with Einstein, who was one of the discoverers of Quantum Mechanics, who stated that quantum mechanics was an "incomplete theory". "Spooky action at a distance" was one of the primary reasons he felt that way, and I agree. While the phenomena appears to be real, our understanding of it seems to me to be incomplete. By what possible mechanism can particles separated, potentially, by billions of light-years, communicate with each other instantly? If you believe in magic, well then, you can just believe in anything, but if not, then it requires some sort of explanation. Of course, much in quantum mechanics appears not just counter-intuitive, but even paradoxical. Even more so leading one to believe it is an incomplete theory. Come back in 1,000 years.

[Philip Tymon]

I guess my disagreement would be, why bother to translate between the worlds? There is empirical reality, which we all live within and can apply the scientific method to. Then, some people claim, there is a "transcendent" reality. The transcendent reality, if it exists, is, by its very nature, not amenable to science or the scientific method. Why try to link or merge the two? As someone has said, "let the mystery be".

The transcendent reality seems to be only accessible through personal experience, is more often than not unreliably achieved, and is purely subjective having, apparently, no testable outcomes in the empirical world. Trying to link these two seems largely doomed to failure. The primary result appears to be that about 90% of those who do try are charlatans attempting to deceive the gullible and the other 10% are just confused.

If science should actually lead us into the "transcendent" realm through its own momentum that is fine-- however, I do not see what is gained by pushing it from those who have a non-scientific agenda. The result is just more confusion-- witness the whole "intelligent design" debate (one of the least intelligent debates ever to occur).

I've always said "when I can watch you levitate, then I'll think you're on to something"-- so far, no one has.

(BTW-- there's been a great program on TV called "The Secrets of Magic Revealed". They show you dozens of spectacular magic tricks and I, for one, am never able to figure out how they do it, but then when they show you it is obvious. I wish that every gullible person in the world would see this show-- they might be a lot more sceptical of charlatans in the future.)

[oreokid]

qm and other subjects like string theory have long fascinated me. this fact of observation changing the results seems to me to indicate that the human mind can affect matter, even if on a small scale. but that cant possibly be right , can it?

[JuliaB]

"can it?" I'll put my money on "it does". but how it does, and in what way---well, that's open for discussion...

qm and other subjects like string theory have long fascinated me. this fact of observation changing the results seems to me to indicate that the human mind can affect matter, even if on a small scale. but that cant possibly be right , can it?

[oreokid]

Spooky action at a distance is instaneous alteration of an entangled photon when its twin is manipulated. This is outside the bounds of Einstein's speed limit. Yet it happens. Mere observation affects the course of a photon. It would seem impossible. Yet it happens. I can't help but wonder if there is another aspect of our universe that is metaphysical in nature. Totally integrated as to be inseparable, perhaps. Maybe this explains some things like telekinesis, clairvoyance, super human strength in times of crisis. I would bet many if not most of us have experienced some unusual things that cant be explained easily.
the world of the very small almost seems to be an intersection of sorts between matter and energy.

[skynelson]

This topic is worth discussing just as any other topic in science has been over history, in order to find a greater understanding of our existence. Namely, through 2 basic postulates I believe we can explain the paradoxical, acausal nature of these issues. I am no charlatan, but a lifelong student of physics...

Those postulates, briefly, are:
1) Anything that has not been observed (by a given observer) cannot be said to be in a definite state.
2) There is no global reality, but only realities as witnessed from one observer or another.

What this means is that when 2 events are correlated over a space-like separation (i.e. light could not have traversed the distance in the time between the events), we can avoid the paradox in the following way. Instead, we accept that we can only see the situation from one vantage point at a time, and also accept that events that were not directly observed by that vantage point were not actually determined...they can therefore be determined after-the-fact without any violation of causality.

In short, events don't actually "happen" when they happen. Events instead fall into place out of necessity only, when an event that requires their existence is observed.

I base my argument on Relational Quantum mechanics and Consistent histories, both well established interpretations.

I am looking for readers for the article I have written about this. Anybody up for the task please let me know: theskyband [at] gmail.com