Sex for the sake of sex

[yogatree]

Tinque ~ you bring up an interesting point. Is there a difference between men and women when it comes to having "sex for the sake of sex"? Can women have sex without there being emotional involvement? In other words, is it easier for men to simply "fuck"?

[Toxic Reverend]

I was told by a lover once that there is a big difference between sex and love. I really tried to understand this in several perspectives. Now, say I was being paid for sex . I am sure there would be no love involved , unless it was for money. Say I am enamored with a person and we end up sleeping together and it is O.K., but no "connection". I am sure there could be feelings and friendship involved and maybe even a type of love , but then you meet someone who actually rocks your world , like no other.. Sky Rockets in Flight !! But you do not even really get along with this person.. But when the magic is there it is pure love and bliss.. Several men have said to me that they "fuck" and that is nothing even near love.. I am sure women "fuck" as well . I personally am very sensitive about whom I give my body to. It is not casual or without feeling . That can be to my detriment at times. But I am a lover at heart and when one is in my arms , sex or not , there is love involved !

After reading over some of these posts, I realize how blessed
I am. To be 50 years old and have had a woman that I could
make love or fuck like a demon. We had met when I was 18
and became loves when I was 20. But she had a son my age
and I learned the difference between sex and love with her.
We split up in the early 1990's and have not seen her for
over a decade. Though I was on the phone talking with her
about this very subject, this morning. (Kat lives in Cleveland
Ohio and I am in Sonoma County CA).

There have been very few woman that i have known that I
could have both with. Since I have been alone and out of a
sexual relationship for over a year, she told me that I should
"just go out and get laid already". My psychologist agrees
with her, too.

And it really scares me, when the two of them agree on
an issue like ;

Maslow's Theory Of Basic Needs (for Spiritual Growth)
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

If you are interested in the consequences of sexual
absence, you might try a Google search on the terms ;
"Catholic consequences of sexual absence"

Unfortunately, the majority of both men and women have
a large number of "misconceptions' of what love is, in the
first place.

Love is based in trust.
To be valued, trust must be earned and not given freely or
"granted".

The best road map that I ever found was a book titled,
"The Road Less Traveled" by Scott Peck. There is a
chapter about "love", in which he describes it by what it is
not. Giving a number of scenarios and then naming them for
what they are. Including "The Myth Of Romantic Love". And
that it a topic that can be rather difficult to wrap your mind
around, in it's own right.

The one thing I know about love is that it will hurt like hell
and I will still choose to be courageous and try to love in spite
of that.

In truth, courage is not the absence of fear,
but the ability to function regardless of it.
(Ask any Veteran that has been in a war).
And getting a realistic evaluation of your "expectations"
can greatly reduce the "fears" of a relationship. The
before mentioned book can help with that and it is at
your public library. Since it was on a best sellers list
for over a decade, your library should have a copy of it.

The only other real option is cheap and meaningless sex
with out any real affection or compassion. It seems to me
that many people resort to "kinky sex", in their attempts to
side step that "void". Some cultures or groups of such people
call that "Vanilla Sex", (or conventional sex).

In reference, Wikipedia explains "Vanilla Sex" as a description of
what a culture regards as standard or conventional sexual behaviour.
Different cultures, subcultures and individuals have different ideas about
what constitutes this type of sex. Often, it is interpreted as sex which does
not involve such elements as BDSM, kink, or fetish activities.

Then there is the other extreme of "how kinky is too kinky" ?
A topic that would need a forum all it's own.

For myself, the best orgasms that I have ever had, have
equaled the depth of my emotional commitment. Even
so, a "Friend With Benefits" can be preferable to
masturbation. If not, you might need to widen your circle
of friends....... of "discretion".

Of course if you are not in love and do not want to "sleep
around" just to have sex for the sake of sex, there is
another option.

On the other hand (pardon the pun), there is a lot to be
said for the simplicity, safety and the absence of
complications of being alone and handling things yourself.

In reference, here is a link to a "Funny Ass Song" at Youtube,
that seems to fit that topic, rather well :)
The titled "Funny Ass Song" states that it is for girls and
boys and the actual address is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcFdvf9IZQ8


Maybe the majority of men are "preconditioned" and
"programmed" to prefer "meaningless sex with significant
orgasms" to masturbation. With out the "head trips" or
getting lost in the concept of such an "oxymoron", aa many
woman do ?

Blessings,

The Toxic Reverend
An Environmental Technologist
www.myspace.com/toxicreverend

[dw41552]

I was told by a lover once that there is a big difference between sex and love. I really tried to understand this in several perspectives. Now, say I was being paid for sex . I am sure there would be no love involved , unless it was for money. Say I am enamored with a person and we end up sleeping together and it is O.K., but no "connection". I am sure there could be feelings and friendship involved and maybe even a type of love , but then you meet someone who actually rocks your world , like no other.. Sky Rockets in Flight !! But you do not even really get along with this person.. But when the magic is there it is pure love and bliss.. Several men have said to me that they "fuck" and that is nothing even near love.. I am sure women "fuck" as well . I personally am very sensitive about whom I give my body to. It is not casual or without feeling . That can be to my detriment at times. But I am a lover at heart and when one is in my arms , sex or not , there is love involved !

The desire to have sex with someone you are not truly in love with, or someone you don't know is called lust, sky rockets in flight or not. There is no such thing as love at first sight, as romantic as that sounds. Those that don't take the time to get to know each other before getting involved in sex and then jump into marriage are the ones who make up the majority of the 55% divorce rate. Believe me if you ever fall in love, you will know the difference between being in love and being in lust. I've been there and it's like the difference between night and day.

God Bless

[Visnhawk]

Greetings Beloveds,
While all of this writing about Conscious Relationship is nice; Living it and talking about it in person is much better-for me!!!!! Everyone has a right to follow their beliefs in their own way. Is Sex better with a Conscious Connection established during it? Of Course it is. Anytime you are connected Energetically with someone, the experience is enhanced. It's like saying orgasms are the end all , be all ,of sex. I imagine that many women hope not, especially with the lack of experience, inquiry, and consciousness that many men bring to the act. Take Sex for Sex sake. What is that? Really Great Sex, Connection, Orgasm, usually starts by learning the partner's needs you're with. That takes Connection on some level- Energetically, than verbally, exploring, questioning more, than infinite possibilities of exploration. How do you do that without connection? Why would you do that without connection?

On another note, If your body is a temple and you truly value you, is not giving yourself to another being an important act? Or is it just, "Oh take me. It's of no real importance" What does that say about us as spirit? As Divine Beings? Giving myself to someone is a gift. Do we value ourselves??? How can we get together to have these conversations in person? I think they're much more powerful in person!

Blessed Be,
VisionHawk

The desire to have sex with someone you are not truly in love with, or someone you don't know is called lust, sky rockets in flight or not. There is no such thing as love at first sight, as romantic as that sounds. Those that don't take the time to get to know each other before getting involved in sex and then jump into marriage are the ones who make up the majority of the 55% divorce rate. Believe me if you ever fall in love, you will know the difference between being in love and being in lust. I've been there and it's like the difference between night and day.

God Bless

[mykil]

OMG you are sooo lost in yourself Butch!!! No such thing as love at frost sight??? Let’s take a very simple example and talk you thru this shall we? If you see your very first child born are you in love at first sight? I can honestly say I don’t truly think you know what love is either. You may think you know what love is but the examples you have given leave me is great doubt! Are you in love with Jesus?

Every woman I have fallen for has been love at first sight, I can see far and have seen our future together and have just known exactly how it would turn out. AS a mater of fact when I met the last woman I fell in love with for the very first time I said out loud, ”oh great now I am in trouble” The guy standing next to me asked what I was talking about and I said “you shall see I just fell in love”! I am still in love and knew it that very moment. I m more afraid for the ones that do not know they are in love from the very beginning, they are the ones that have not got a clue. Although I am not living with this woman and I date others I am still in love and shall alwayz be in lobe with her. I see no reason to even attempt to stop loving another shall only cause pain. Divorce is for people that are stupid to get married in the first place. Why bother getting married? So you can wind up in divorce court and battle your life away with someone you were suppose to be in love with? Do you distrust someone sooo much that you have to marry them in the first place in order to put a leach around their neck? Marriage is for suckers plain and simple and so is the latter part of this, Divorce! Marriage is a sort of ancient ritual that should remain ancient! IF you are married you are married because you are afraid of something and you have severe mental problems in your mind you need to deal with Plain and simple. You are afraid of something! Love has nothing to do with marriage! Love is all around us and to fall in love is a simple task just walk around and you shall find love everywhere!

The desire to have sex with someone you are not truly in love with, or someone you don't know is called lust, sky rockets in flight or not. There is no such thing as love at first sight, as romantic as that sounds. Those that don't take the time to get to know each other before getting involved in sex and then jump into marriage are the ones who make up the majority of the 55% divorce rate. Believe me if you ever fall in love, you will know the difference between being in love and being in lust. I've been there and it's like the difference between night and day.

God Bless

[dw41552]

OMG you are sooo lost in yourself Butch!!! No such thing as love at frost sight??? Let’s take a very simple example and talk you thru this shall we? If you see your very first child born are you in love at first sight? I can honestly say I don’t truly think you know what love is either. You may think you know what love is but the examples you have given leave me is great doubt! Are you in love with Jesus?

Every woman I have fallen for has been love at first sight, I can see far and have seen our future together and have just known exactly how it would turn out. AS a mater of fact when I met the last woman I fell in love with for the very first time I said out loud, ”oh great now I am in trouble” The guy standing next to me asked what I was talking about and I said “you shall see I just fell in love”! I am still in love and knew it that very moment. I m more afraid for the ones that do not know they are in love from the very beginning, they are the ones that have not got a clue. Although I am not living with this woman and I date others I am still in love and shall alwayz be in lobe with her. I see no reason to even attempt to stop loving another shall only cause pain. Divorce is for people that are stupid to get married in the first place. Why bother getting married? So you can wind up in divorce court and battle your life away with someone you were suppose to be in love with? Do you distrust someone sooo much that you have to marry them in the first place in order to put a leach around their neck? Marriage is for suckers plain and simple and so is the latter part of this, Divorce! Marriage is a sort of ancient ritual that should remain ancient! IF you are married you are married because you are afraid of something and you have severe mental problems in your mind you need to deal with Plain and simple. You are afraid of something! Love has nothing to do with marriage! Love is all around us and to fall in love is a simple task just walk around and you shall find love everywhere!

The love for a son or daughter is different from the love of of a spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend. My child is part of me. My love for my child began the minute I knew he/she was growing in my wife's body. That's a given, at least for most of us parents. There are those that would rather kill the child rather than raise him/her or give her/him up for adoption, (Another subject).

The first thing a man or woman notices when a member of the opposite sex causes one to turn for a second look are the physical attributes. This is plain and simply lust and nothing more. The more only comes when you really get to know that person and like what you've learned. Hopefully this will grow into true love. And I know exactly what true love is sir and I will explain it to you. When two people are attracted to each other enough to persue a relationship, and it gets to the point that they put each others needs before their own and expect nothing in return, then are willing to do what's necessary to keep it alive, that's true love and nothing or no one can destroy it especially if God is at the center of the relationsip. Then they are ready for marriage which is an outward showing of the love and commitment they have for each other.

In a sense I agree with you on the marriage thing. I'm not against it. I just believe if a couple aren't absolutely sure they want to spend the rest of their lives together, which keeps the family unit strong and healthy, then they have no business getting married. It is when people jump into marriage to soon or for the wrong reasons that makes it a weak and meaningless union between idiots. And I admit I was one of those idiots, twice. This is why I have been single for 17 years and love my life just as is. I haven't been with a woman in over 15 years, and have no problem with it because I control my body instead of it controling me. My life is a lot less complicated. My biggest worry is getting my 17 year old son through college. Now this does not mean I am opposed to a relationship. What it means is I don't need or depend on someone to make me happy.

God Bless

[hales]

Hey, Mykil, why don't you just say what you really feel? ; )

Seriously, I do appreciate your directness and honesty.. rock on, man.

btw, more than once, I have sure had the experience of love at first sight, and still love those women. Once I saw a beautiful, rich, slightly older woman riding on a horse, who I thought the odds of me getting together with were slim to none.. but I KNEW we would be together.. and it did come to pass. It's some kind of a soul-to-soul thing.

And I'm kind of cynical about the marriage thing, been there, lost the tee-shirt.. ; / Love at first sight does not necessarily mean all the assumed "fixins".. little house, picket fence, with 2.5 kids, or whatever.. and even when it does, things can change. At least it did for me..

..but the hopeful heart lives on, ever looking for real love, in a world of materialists.

anotherlover,

Scott.

OMG you are sooo lost in yourself Butch!!! No such thing as love at frost sight??? Let’s take a very simple example and talk you thru this shall we? If you see your very first child born are you in love at first sight? I can honestly say I don’t truly think you know what love is either. You may think you know what love is but the examples you have given leave me is great doubt! Are you in love with Jesus?

Every woman I have fallen for has been love at first sight, I can see far and have seen our future together and have just known exactly how it would turn out. AS a mater of fact when I met the last woman I fell in love with for the very first time I said out loud, ”oh great now I am in trouble” The guy standing next to me asked what I was talking about and I said “you shall see I just fell in love”! I am still in love and knew it that very moment. I m more afraid for the ones that do not know they are in love from the very beginning, they are the ones that have not got a clue. Although I am not living with this woman and I date others I am still in love and shall alwayz be in lobe with her. I see no reason to even attempt to stop loving another shall only cause pain. Divorce is for people that are stupid to get married in the first place. Why bother getting married? So you can wind up in divorce court and battle your life away with someone you were suppose to be in love with? Do you distrust someone sooo much that you have to marry them in the first place in order to put a leach around their neck? Marriage is for suckers plain and simple and so is the latter part of this, Divorce! Marriage is a sort of ancient ritual that should remain ancient! IF you are married you are married because you are afraid of something and you have severe mental problems in your mind you need to deal with Plain and simple. You are afraid of something! Love has nothing to do with marriage! Love is all around us and to fall in love is a simple task just walk around and you shall find love everywhere!

[hales]

I especially like this line, you wrote, Mykil:

"Love is all around us and to fall in love is a simple task just walk around and you shall find love everywhere! "

To be a lover of life is a beautiful thing.

Scott.

Hey, Mykil, why don't you just say what you really feel? ; )

Seriously, I do appreciate your directness and honesty.. rock on, man.

btw, more than once, I have sure had the experience of love at first sight, and still love those women. Once I saw a beautiful, rich, slightly older woman riding on a horse, who I thought the odds of me getting together with were slim to none.. but I KNEW we would be together.. and it did come to pass. It's some kind of a soul-to-soul thing.

And I'm kind of cynical about the marriage thing, been there, lost the tee-shirt.. ; / Love at first sight does not necessarily mean all the assumed "fixins".. little house, picket fence, with 2.5 kids, or whatever.. and even when it does, things can change. At least it did for me..

..but the hopeful heart lives on, ever looking for real love, in a world of materialists.

anotherlover,

Scott.

[yogatree]

Yes, we can talk in person ~ how wonderful and powerful would that be to share in such glorious conversation face to face!

I am facilitating a Community Potluck at Ragle Park on May 17th 12 - 3pm. All of you are invited and most welcome! For more info, please click on the link:

Workshops, Events, Rituals - Sebastopol, CA

Greetings Beloveds,
While all of this writing about Conscious Relationship is nice; Living it and talking about it in person is much better-for me!!!!! Everyone has a right to follow their beliefs in their own way. Is Sex better with a Conscious Connection established during it? Of Course it is. Anytime you are connected Energetically with someone, the experience is enhanced. It's like saying orgasms are the end all , be all ,of sex. I imagine that many women hope not, especially with the lack of experience, inquiry, and consciousness that many men bring to the act. Take Sex for Sex sake. What is that? Really Great Sex, Connection, Orgasm, usually starts by learning the partner's needs you're with. That takes Connection on some level- Energetically, than verbally, exploring, questioning more, than infinite possibilities of exploration. How do you do that without connection? Why would you do that without connection?

On another note, If your body is a temple and you truly value you, is not giving yourself to another being an important act? Or is it just, "Oh take me. It's of no real importance" What does that say about us as spirit? As Divine Beings? Giving myself to someone is a gift. Do we value ourselves??? How can we get together to have these conversations in person? I think they're much more powerful in person!

Blessed Be,
VisionHawk

[mykil]

Butch; May I be so bold as to ask your age sir?

[dw41552]

Butch; May I be so bold as to ask your age sir?

A young 57

[mykil]

I think in this day and age I am seeing more of a correlation between religion, alcoholism and drug addiction. They go hand in hand and any one of those numbs the abilities to have real personal growth. Evolution can only be derived from personal growth and if you numb your senses with alcohol, drugs or religion you just stop growing, you will not evolve. Before you go off the handle and tell me now wrong I am let me say I have experience with all three of these addictions and from real personal experience I can see this to be 100 percent accurate. In one mans opinion this goes without saying. In religion just as in alcoholism and drug addiction you cannot and will not be wrong! Your way is the only way and that is that! You ever try and tell a guy he has had too much to drink? Or tell a guy the bible is all wrong when this is what he truly believes to be true? Same reaction totally, it’s an addition just like anything else! If you want to give up on yourself than let it be give in to evolution and sit back and enjoy the rest of the world as it passes you by. Go to church, or go by a twelve pack of cheap beer and pass out on the couch, the results will be the same no matter which you choose. You will wake the next day and start the same routine all over again and have nothing to show for it except a few knew tails or a few knew versus in your head. But then again who am I to knock either?

In my opinion there is only one kind of love, actually only one love period, WE all share this love around us and that is that! Love is alive, love is subject to its own rules, and love is an almighty power and entity. Love is god, love is US, and WE are all love. WE share each and every moment in time with each other as one. Love was here before the bible, love shall be here long after the bible ceases to exist and love shall always be something every person on earth shall share forever. Love is growing right along side each of us and it seems to be ageing well. I for one am ecstatic it has decided to hang out with us and enjoy our company.

AS for the assumptions it easier for one or the other sex to not get too emotional I see no difference. I was going to say it was easier for a man to go from one love to the other, and then I had to remember how I was when I was younger, full of jealousy and really easy to get attached at the drop of a hat. Men and women are one, we are the same, and we have the same needy wants and needs. I think once we get a taste of the real world and evolve we harden our emotions a little over time, well some of us do, and we make progress in being able to see past our own minds to the point we are able to have fun without the need for attachment. People that have only had one or two lovers in their life will not understand this what so ever, But for me I can and well continue to evolve from lover to lover and try my best not to fall head over heels for each and every one of them. When I do let myself grow on one person and take the step to become lovers they are a special part of me for sure, they bypass suspect and truly become part of my immediate family. I have no reservations or concerns for who they are or who they might be at this point. I do my homework well and accept this challenge with only people I would honestly take to my personal space with the abilities to leave them there without fear of what might become of an event like this! There is a lot to overcome and strive for in order to be a lover of mine to begin with, most are not up to the challenge. Emotions can and do run high for most. I compensate well and have no fears of letting someone get close to me once they have showed me they are more than capable of doing so. So for me it is not so much the sex that is important but more along the lines of is this a person I can truly trust to let this close to me, a person with true integrity in their heart and soul that only wants to do good in this world and can they distinguish their own emotions and not be too needy towards me to begin with. If someone wants to move right in and tell me how it is going to be I am sooo not going there. If and when I am to settle for one mate, I shall let it happen but I am my own man and this needs to be up front and in person before anything else shall ever evolve. I love way more than one person right now and have little room for a high strung emotional train wreck that has nothing better to do than make my life a living hell, you know like people that get married! HA! OK daily vent over!

[ElizabethM]

Lovies,
I cannot help myself...I find the below rant no more than a teenage level maturity and shallow, heartless opinions, barely worthy of my time quite frankly.


Im not sure that it serves anyone on any level, Mykil, to tell people what you think of them, and their choices...wiht insults and judgmental critisms of character.

perhaps try inquiry, consider asking questions of those around you who you respect ( ah, maybe theres a hitch there)...try asking happily married people what they are grateful for today, how is their love able to inform me, you, us on the ways of intimate communion.

Thinking that what we know can serve others is a fabulous trap that the ego really loves... clearly our egos can get us by the balls, and brains.


Blessings on this bright, clear Spring day.
Elizabeth M

OMG you are sooo lost in yourself Butch!!! No such thing as love at frost sight??? Let’s take a very simple example and talk you thru this shall we? If you see your very first child born are you in love at first sight? I can honestly say I don’t truly think you know what love is either. You may think you know what love is but the examples you have given leave me is great doubt! Are you in love with Jesus?

Every woman I have fallen for has been love at first sight, I can see far and have seen our future together and have just known exactly how it would turn out. AS a mater of fact when I met the last woman I fell in love with for the very first time I said out loud, ”oh great now I am in trouble” The guy standing next to me asked what I was talking about and I said “you shall see I just fell in love”! I am still in love and knew it that very moment. I m more afraid for the ones that do not know they are in love from the very beginning, they are the ones that have not got a clue. Although I am not living with this woman and I date others I am still in love and shall alwayz be in lobe with her. I see no reason to even attempt to stop loving another shall only cause pain. Divorce is for people that are stupid to get married in the first place. Why bother getting married? So you can wind up in divorce court and battle your life away with someone you were suppose to be in love with? Do you distrust someone sooo much that you have to marry them in the first place in order to put a leach around their neck? Marriage is for suckers plain and simple and so is the latter part of this, Divorce! Marriage is a sort of ancient ritual that should remain ancient! IF you are married you are married because you are afraid of something and you have severe mental problems in your mind you need to deal with Plain and simple. You are afraid of something! Love has nothing to do with marriage! Love is all around us and to fall in love is a simple task just walk around and you shall find love everywhere!

[mykil]

Please re-read what you just wrote and tell me again how much better you are than me! Gotta love it, Atleast I am open about my quest in finding something a little shallow, I love your enthusiastic approach to life I have to admit thou, Hmm kinda reminds me of…

[mykil]

Thank you for re-reading and editing your post my lady E! Althou I preferred it he way it was, shows you true talent! HA!

[Tinque]

ANYONE WANT TO FUCK ? ( Just Kidding)I am in a Silly mood tonight ...

[Lorrie]

ANYONE WANT TO FUCK ? ( Just Kidding)I am in a Silly mood tonight ...

YES! So I did.
yeah! for me!

[Focused]

The want to F ? Kinda crass don't ya think? It shows up right under "Kitties for sale". Nice for kids to see. It feels pretty immature for an adult web site....

[Toxic Reverend]

YES! So I did.
yeah! for me!

Why is sex listed separate from love in Maslow's Hhierarchy of needs ?
It is psych 101.

[Braggi]

Why is sex listed separate from love in Maslow's Hhierarchy of needs ?
It is psych 101. ...

It's listed both together and separately, as it should be.

-Jeff

[Toxic Reverend]

No conversation on "Sex for the sake of sex" could be
complete with out considering the "History of sex"

Hhhhmmmmm.......
History does repeat itself. The ways in which
"social perspectives" have been influenced are of
interest.

The History Channel did a series of shows on
"The History of sex" that they have been re-broadcasting.
I was just watching one of the episodes, this evening. I
just watched the episode titled The 20th Century (with Hugh
Hefner from Playboy Magazine being interviewed, too).
The History of Sex _ The History Channel
Episodes
Ancient Civilizations. From Don Juan to Queen Victoria.
The 20th Century. The Eastern World. The Middle Ages.
The above episodes are links posted at
https://www.history.com/episodes.do
Also note Google search terms: "The History of Sex"
Example of search results;

History of Sex and Love: Introduction - Feature - Discovery Channel
Sex hasn't always been painted as an act of sin and corruption.
In fact, pre-Christian religions and civilisations all over the world
saw it as an act of worship and celebration.
https://www.discoverychannel.co.uk/b...tory_sex_love/

FYI:

Free advice on love, romance and nutrition from the porn star

Jacklyn Lick's Experiential Blog
Jacklyn Lick's Experiential Blog


Jacklyn Lick's MySpace Profile is at
Jacklyn Lick (Jacklyn Lick) | MySpace.com

Now you will have to excuse me while I go back to studying
this topic so that I actually have a clue as to what I am talking
about ...

Blessings,


The Toxic Reverend
MySpace.com - Toxic Reverend -
- www.myspace.com/toxicreverend

There is a great line from Tori Amos' song called "Leather": "Look, I'm standing naked before you, don't you want more than my sex."

How many of us have, at one time or another, felt there was something lacking from a sexual encounter? Perhaps the sex was physically pleasurable but there was a strong sense that it was all just on the surface, that there was potential for something so much deeper. Feeling a void, a longing.

On the flip side, how many of us, in our intimate sexual encounters, have experienced what can only be described as a dance with the Divine? While in the naked embrace of a loved one, we rise up with serpentine movements, transcend our bodies, swim in a sea of energy, love and light, kiss the face of god/dess with head thrown back, and find ourselves with our breath literally taken away...sharing an amazing spiritual experience with the one before us...

In this dance with the divine, there is a mutual play of energy. Two (or more) individuals meet each other - one does not feel the need to press, the other does not feel the need to withdraw - both are sharing in the flow, reading and responding to the other. There is subtlety, respect, love, exchange, play, balance. And there is fulfillment.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this...I guess to say that I've experienced both scenarios (and in between), and find myself not just wanting sex for the sake of the physical experience, not just wanting someone else to want me for sex. I enjoy the deeper experience, the spiritual experience that can accompany it. I love the dance!

Please feel free to share your thoughts.

[dw41552]

Why is sex listed separate from love in Maslow's Hhierarchy of needs ?
It is psych 101.







Because it's something you can live without. Imagine all the senior citizens
who can no longer function physically but stay together because of the love they have for each other. If one of a married couple for one reason or another could no longer funtion sexually and the other could not stay faithful and loyal, that person does not love their spouse, plain and simple. This is why God planned the love to come first, not the sex.

God Bless

[mykil]

Butch; so basically in your theory on life one can only truly love one other individual yes? Till death do you part? So after you wife passes shall you marry again? It was a simple enough question sir. It is a large feat to immortalize man kind and say what they can and cannot love in the same breath. Your limits are truly inhumane in my humble opinion. I hate to ask but how d o you feel about a man and a man getting married?

[dw41552]

Butch; so basically in your theory on life one can only truly love one other individual yes? Till death do you part? So after you wife passes shall you marry again? It was a simple enough question sir. It is a large feat to immortalize man kind and say what they can and cannot love in the same breath. Your limits are truly inhumane in my humble opinion. I hate to ask but how d o you feel about a man and a man getting married?

As a spouse, yes. It is not my theory, it is what I believe period. Without going into a long drawn out story I have been in love with only one women, but because of circumstances we cannot be together. We have never had sex. And if I could be married to her right now and we could not enjoy making love, It would not matter to me. I would have no problem spending the rest of our lives together. But like I said, that will never happen. This is not to say I could not fall in love with a different woman who is available. I'm just not looking for anyone, and am not sure I ever will. God has given me a purpose for the rest of my life and that is the path I wish to follow. I've been married twice so I had my chance.

As far as your last question, are you going to respect my answer whether you agree or not? If so I will answer it.

God Bless

[mykil]

Just because I speak my mind does not mean I have no respect! When I read your post I can assume the same from you if I choose, I just know better, I know you feel this way in your heart, I just refuse to agree with your sediments towards life. Respect to the fullest intent allowed by your god and mine is a given if you don’t see this in my writing you are just not trying very hard!!
AS far as you life choice, yes I would be curious to see what exactly makes you tick, without reference to the bible in every line you write so as a simple minded individual as myself can take heart and truly get the jest of what is on your mind and what might make you tick. AS for what you just wrote, I cannot decipher what the hell is going on in your mind. You are not marries to a woman you love? You where marries twice, yet you divorced, so in your own words does this not mean you never loved you first or second wife. If I am following along with you own words this is what it is saying, yes I have been paying attention!
The marriage between two men is important for character reference towards your true mentality, so yes I will hold it against you, just not in the way you see fit in your mind to describe what I have the intent to do with the information. It shall totally give reference to your own true self and how I shall respond to every question I ever answer, also every aspect of any debate that may arouse on this site. For this is what we are doing is it not? A good debate has to be an open book as long as all parties are learning and fully understanding this in itself is the principle we are here for in the first place. Sometimes name calling gets involved and people get a little out of line, but still this is what it is all about! So I may not agree with anything you ever say, but yes I am hoping there is mutual respect throughout our little references community debates and in the hopes we shall never burn a bridge over a little miss communication, meaning someday soon we may actually meet in person at a social event of some sort and shake hands and maybe even hug! Maybe someday even the whole world may decide to respect one another as well.
There on occasion area few people that chime in that I would love to spar with and learn as well. I love to see people get right in and really take a bite out of what is going on, it really is too awful bad most disappear. There truly is room for all opinions and egos here, like I said this is what makes a great debate!

[Toxic Reverend]

In reply to:

Because it's something you can live without. Imagine all the senior citizens
who can no longer function physically but stay together because of the love
they have for each other. If one of a married couple for one reason or another could no longer funtion sexually and the other could not stay
faithful and loyal, that person does not love their spouse, plain and simple.
This is why God planned the love to come first, not the sex.
____________________

My thoughts on the separate quality of sex and love are in post
#32 (permalink). In which I also allude to Scott Peck's perspective
from his best selling book, "The Road Less Traveled".

FYI: Scott peck was a "hard core Christian" (deceased), and his
book was on the best sellers list for over a decade.

Basically, I had posted Malsow's Theory on the Hhierarchy of
Basic Needs as a question, just to make people think.
This is problematic of itself.

"If" one partner could no longer function sexually, the other
could stay faithful and loyal, in their heart. While allowing,
if not encouraging their partner to have sexual encounters
with others.

If not, that person might not love their spouse. They
could be considered "very selfish", IN SOME CULTURES.

This is the way that some believe. Such as Pagans that celebrate
marriage with a sex orgy. So I just did a Google search and found
A Brief History of Religious Sex

Not that my concepts are so colored with pre-programmed Christian
concepts, but Barry has asked us to leave are concepts of God out
of this discussion. He split off the Christian tangent of this discussion
into its own thread:
Sex and Christians

So if you want to pursue the religious aspects of this, I suggest that
you try it there. And please note that I am not subscribing to either
belief system or even saying what my "beliefs" are. I am only drawing
attention to the variances and saying that it off topic for this thread.

Actually, Malsow's Theory on the Hhierarchy of Basic Needs is
taught as basic psychology 101 in our schools. And it does list sex
separate from love. But I no more want to argue about that than I
do about the origin of mankind.
:(Another oxymoron "man - kind"):

My thoughts on this subject of "Sex for the sake of sex" were posted two
weeks ago in post #32 (permalink).


..........................................................................................

Like Bary posted 4 Weeks Ago in post #18 (permalink)

Quote:
I (Barry) split off the Christian tangent of this discussion into its own thread:
Sex and Christians

Anybody else want to share your thoughts about "sex for the sake of sex"?
Surely, there are many of you out there who have had sex with somebody
that you were not "in love with" or in any other creative relationship status
("Friends with Benefits", " Fuck Buddies", etc.)

End of quote from Barry #18 (permalink)

..............................................................................................

[yogatree]

Yes, you are correct: sex and love are listed in different areas of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I love the pyramid, because Maslow's thought process behind it is the base level is our foundation - our survival needs. Without these things, we would not be able to propogate as a species. As these basic needs are met, we move up the pyramid. It is not until we have food in our mouths and water to drink that we can then even think about and meet our needs for safety. When our needs for safety are met, we are able to meet our needs of love/belonging, and so on.

I especially appreciate the top of the pyramid - self-actualization. This pyramid illustration doesn't quite do it justice, but Maslow communicated that self-actualization is the state of living our highest potential as humans.

love and peace,
~K

Why is sex listed separate from love in Maslow's Hhierarchy of needs ?
It is psych 101.

[yogatree]

I have intentionally mostly sat back and observed the unfolding of this thread in all its varied and beautiful forms, choosing to engage in posting on a limited basis. I find it interesting how the thread was split into two separate threads, as the conversation began to become heavily weighted on the Christian/religious/spiritual aspect.


Is not my original post a merging of sex and spirituality? The thread started out with the Tori Amos song quote, “…don’t you want more than my sex?” I express my current desire/preference/choice to experience more than the physical act of sex. It is sharing in the beautiful “dance with the Divine” with another person that is most delicious! (and perhaps I will feel differently tomorrow!)


I have been asked what my intention was with the original post. I just felt drawn to voice myself to the community and experience my community’s response. In other words, “I’ll dip my toes in and see how the water feels. “ Who is out there in Sebastopol? How is my community a reflection of me? And I am grateful for each and every one of your comments!


--------------


Back to the thread topic…I was involved in a conversation a couple days ago about dolphins. Dolphins are one of the only other species on the planet that have sex for the simple pleasure of sex. And that is beautiful!!!


I was raised a very fundamentalist Christian, and I recall an illustration: I was told that two people in a relationship are like two strands of rope. When God is in the relationship, there are three strands, which makes the rope, the connection, that much stronger. I no longer identify as Christian, but I can appreciate the message. When there is a soul identification, a deep spiritual connection with another, and sex is an expression of love/dance in this type of relationship, how beautiful and amazing is that!


So today I felt drawn to post on this thread. Today has been an emotional and powerful day for me, for I am honoring a huge transition in my life. I am releasing past structures and ways of being in relationship, and honoring the gifts each person/relationship has brought me. From that releasing, I am freeing up the space for a different and new way of relationship to be in my life…one in which the Divine/Self/Love/Light/Spirit/God/One…connection is present, one that is not restricted to the confines of the ego, one that is simply the biggest, purest and most open expression of love.
~K

[dw41552]

Quote:
I (Barry) split off the Christian tangent of this discussion into its own thread:
Sex and Christians

Anybody else want to share your thoughts about "sex for the sake of sex"?
Surely, there are many of you out there who have had sex with somebody
that you were not "in love with" or in any other creative relationship status
("Friends with Benefits", " Fuck Buddies", etc.)

End of quote from Barry #18 (permalink)

..............................................................................................

Sorry God is at the head of my life. I try my best to live according to His will, there for I cannot leave Him out of the aswers to the questions I'm asked. I'm not here to to just talk about sex. One of my purposes is to educate people about the many dangers of sex out of God's will especially young people. And besides there wasn't much of a discussion till I brought my Christian view

[Tinque]

O.K.... When I read the post written by Mr. Toxic , I felt a bit angry and wanted to respond immediately. I decided to contemplate what I may write and use my words as wisely as one can. I am now responding without for-thought about what I am to write. I was raised strict catholic and was then given the opportunity to be free to choose , with no influence from my parents. I have allowed my son (11) to make his own desisions on what his beliefs are and maybe will be.
My best friend is a Christian , and let me tell you ,we have incredible heated discussions on the whole subject or actually subjects. I was , gratefully raised, with no thought of color , ( I get darn brown myself), or have any judgements toward any sexual preference. I believe that there is good and bad .. I have seen this myself personally. I do not even think to seperate us as people in a matter of color , sexual preference or whatever. I do know that MOST people need guidance and look into what may be available to them . We are all , in my opnion , a bit lost , and with reason . We need to respect each others feeling and beliefs , though I always am open to trying to change ones point of view because I think thier point of view is not the appropriate one ,(in my opinion), but I do respect the fact that we are free to our own opinions and really in my mind how could that ever have not been so . I think we are givien naturally by birth right ALL OF US to express our beliefs and feelings and try as a joint community to work together to make our planet exist. Together we can nurture. Alone we will crumble.. This is of course only my opinion.. and, by the way , I am really in the mood to make passionate love and fuck . I am feeling a bit sad , a bit overworked ( to say the least ) and a bit vulnerable. I know all of you have these moments and we all try to figure out how to feel better.. I am off to my garden .. I will eat some fresh strawberrys , weed a bit , get excited about the new growth of my seedlings . Feel a bit lonely , but at the same time realize that it is rare I have a chance to be completely alone and that it is O.K as well as important. . I will feel the warmth of our sun and enjoy the beauty of the hummingbirds that are surronding me , as well as all the variety of birds indulging in my several bird baths and fountains that my son and I have created. I want to acknowledge that no matter if I am making passionate love or becoming a savage beast and being fucked , MY COMPLETE heart and soul are involved and I do not take it lightly. We are all a bit savage and we all have different ways in satisfying those needs. As long as you are not hurting anyone ... Let the show go on .. Love to All ... Tinque

If you believe something is "outside of God's will," and you respect this will of God, then I suppose you should act accordingly. However, there are a lot of people who don't agree with you and don't see "God's will" the same way you do.

I think Jesus taught folks like you to turn the other cheek. Another less violent way to read that is to live and let live. Next time you get a chance to vote to support someone else's rights, I hope you consider that.

-Jeff