For the record: Local Supporters of Prop 8

[Fudo]

To those who do not believe in equality for all...shame on you:

https://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8

[Franklin Johnson]

Where did you get this valuable information? I would like to access it myself.

Thank you,

Franklin

[Braggi]

To those who do not believe in equality for all...shame on you: ...

That post is just nasty. We don't need that kind of divisiveness. It won't help.

That list is just people who were standing up for their beliefs however different from yours and mine.

At this point we have to admit they ran a successful campaign, and they didn't just do it in California. Some of them certainly did it from a place of unreasonable hatred and that's really sad. But the only things that can heal hatred and bigotry are love and education.

Most monsters can be tamed by getting to know them and letting them learn about you. Demonization is what we need to get beyond.

-Jeff

[Fudo]

Some good points, Jeff. I agree, those who voted for Prop 8 are not demons nor monsters. Perhaps they just need a few gay friends to realize how many people are hurt because of their actions. I believe voting for Prop 8 was a shameful act just the way denying blacks and whites the right to marry once was. Just as denying women the right to vote once was. Just as... I could go on, but you get the point.

I believe the people who are on this list (which is easily available to the general public on countless websites) need more exposure to gay people. Remember, gay people are the ones being demonized here, not them.

Because of Prop 8, gay people have now been relegated to second-class status. If this doesn't make you angry, it should. This is a blow to any sense of fairness. This also sends a devastating blow to gay kids everywhere who already face the daunting task of learning self-love and self-acceptance in a culture still bubbling with ignorance and intolerance. The stats for gay teen suicide are still off the charts. Prop 8 adds fuel to this unconscionable fire.

The good news is that 62% of the youth vote rejected Prop 8. They are the future. The future is bright. Yes, it's a travesty that the majority of California citizens (prodded and lied to by one billionaire zealot and his religious minions) want to deny tax-paying adults the opportunity to marry whomever they want. It's wrong on so many levels.

But with this defeat comes the opportunity to again galvanize all citizens who believe in equal rights for all. This defeat will keep the conversation going. It will compel people to realize that it's a false start to say that the institution of marriage is somehow "threatened" and needs to be "protected." Most importantly, I believe, it will teach love. And here is where I do agree with you, Jeff. Given time, love, the cornerstone of marriage, is a force that can and will destroy anything and everything that gets in its way.

Thanks to all of you for continuing to fight the good fight by making it socially and politically unacceptable to practice discrimination on any level. With your help, the pursuit of happiness will, one day, again, be shared by all.

Until such time, get to know the people on this list, take them out for coffee, educate them, and yes, spread the love.

P.S. In deference to Braggi's opinion that my initial posting is "just nasty" (still scratching my head on this), I decided to remove the names and just leave the link to the website so anyone who wants to can see who funded the campaign. We'll see if Franklin wants to do the same since the posting was copied in his reply.

[Ratfink]

To those who do not believe in equality for all...shame on you:

It seems that so many African Americans turned out to vote for Obama that they also voted yes on 8 because of their religious beliefs. This is the second time the people have spoken. Listing names and protesting in the streets doesn't help the cause any. Its going to go back to the courts and eventually to the Surpreme Court.

[Sylph]

I was very much against Prop 8, but it is taking anger too far to post names here, regardless of where else the information can be found. Let's take the high road and delete the names. What is being suggested here...that these people should get letters or calls berating them for their stance? I don't think that's a constructive way to spread the message of tolerance!

[Malene]

People have the right to support any opinion they choose, to vote their conscience, and to support various political points of view with money if they choose.

If they do choose to support a political party, candidate or bill financially then that is public information. When / if a business gives financial support to something political then I think it is completely fair game for us to know about it. For it to be posted, and for us to discuss it.

It gives us the choice if we want to support a specific business given where they choose to put the money they earn from our patronage.

This is fair play, good information to have, and each of us can access the business according to our personal beliefs.

I was so saddened to see prop 8 pass. In the large sceme of things I still think getting Obama to his win was more important than prop 8. I know the discrimination against gays cause a lot of hurt, and it saddens me. Still - 4 more years of current policies would have caused more hurt.

Now - if I know that a business supported mccain, bush or prop 8 financially I might choose ot take my money somewhere else. This is my choice - just as much as they chose to support those individuals and causes.

I have just as much a right of choice as they do.

Malene

To those who do not believe in equality for all...shame on you:

https://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8

[MsTerry]

Punishing people for their beliefs is oppressive.

Now - if I know that a business supported mccain, bush or prop 8 financially I might choose ot take my money somewhere else. This is my choice - just as much as they chose to support those individuals and causes.
Malene

[Franklin Johnson]

Thanks!

Franklin

To those who do not believe in equality for all...shame on you:

https://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8

[Franklin Johnson]

Here are three groups that have been at the forefront of the battle against discrimination and the gross bigotry and religious fanaticism of Prop 8. Please contact them if this is important to you and get involved! There shouldn't be religion in government and I don't to want someone else's religion shoved down my throat through prejudiced, hateful laws like Prop 8:

No On 8, Equality For All
https://www.noonprop8.com/action

Equality California:
https://www.eqca.org

Human Rights Campaign
https://www.hrc.org


Franklin

To those who do not believe in equality for all...shame on you:

https://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8

[cosmiccorn]

I agree with Jeff that such divisiveness is not helpful.
So I took a different approach and checked out this database, but opted to look at folks residing in a couple of the more conservative states (namely Utah and Wyoming) and had donated funds to oppose measure 8.
Just a thought.

That post is just nasty. We don't need that kind of divisiveness. It won't help.

That list is just people who were standing up for their beliefs however different from yours and mine.

At this point we have to admit they ran a successful campaign, and they didn't just do it in California. Some of them certainly did it from a place of unreasonable hatred and that's really sad. But the only things that can heal hatred and bigotry are love and education.

Most monsters can be tamed by getting to know them and letting them learn about you. Demonization is what we need to get beyond.

-Jeff

[Malene]

Its not punishing - its simple marketing and sales knowledge. Why do you think companies often give to non-profits? Just think about every December in Sonoma county kzst has a drive to collect money for those who are less fortunate. Business's donate all the time, and they of course gets their business mentioned on the radio - great publicity.

If the companies in question have good solid marketing profiles of the customers they want to reach then they make decisions that will enhance their image. Obviously, if they decide to donate to anything under their business name then they want the public to know where they stand on those issues. That will attract those customers that agree with them. It will also possibly turn some away, but those so turned away are most likely not the customers they are looking for.

Marketing 101.

If they dont follow sound marketing principles when their business donates money - ahh well - thats on them.

I just go with the image they want to project, and figure that I am not really the customer they want to attract.

Malene

Punishing people for their beliefs is oppressive.

[Sylph]

I agree with you, Malene, when it comes to businesses, and that their donation may be a form of advertising. In this case, it may be effective to contact them about their stance and tell them that they won't get your business as a result of their donation. I think there was only one business on the list.
I didn't like the list of individuals put out there, even though it is public record. Some were retired and/or disabled. (I had no idea all this was public record until I saw it here on Wacco). I did go to the site and was heartened to see that there were several pages of anti-8 contributors in Sebastopol. The pro-8 folks were a small percentage of the whole.

[Malene]

Hey Sylph,


Well.... Yes, no, kinda. I went to the site as well, and looked up Rohnert Park where I live. There was a fairly short list of people on there. When I clicked on the detail list there was some of the individual people listed are the sole proprietors of their business's. They dont list the donation under their biz name, but they still mention it.

I dont think it is any of my business what my personal neighbors has contributed and to what. I always aim to relate first to people, and not to their opinions.

As mentioned before - I do think it is fair play what business's and business owners contribute. When I clicked in there was a Denis something or other local dentist that had contributed to have gay marriages stopped. He will never be my dentist.

Malene

I agree with you, Malene, when it comes to businesses, and that their donation may be a form of advertising. In this case, it may be effective to contact them about their stance and tell them that they won't get your business as a result of their donation. I think there was only one business on the list.
I didn't like the list of individuals put out there, even though it is public record. Some were retired and/or disabled. (I had no idea all this was public record until I saw it here on Wacco). I did go to the site and was heartened to see that there were several pages of anti-8 contributors in Sebastopol. The pro-8 folks were a small percentage of the whole.

[Franklin Johnson]

Malene, I agree with you 100%. This person will never be my dentist either. And people have a right to know for the sake of transparency and as a powerful tool against the potential for corruption. Following the money trail is a vital part of a democracy and freedom of expression and of information.

Franklin

Hey Sylph,


Well.... Yes, no, kinda. I went to the site as well, and looked up Rohnert Park where I live. There was a fairly short list of people on there. When I clicked on the detail list there was some of the individual people listed are the sole proprietors of their business's. They dont list the donation under their biz name, but they still mention it.

I dont think it is any of my business what my personal neighbors has contributed and to what. I always aim to relate first to people, and not to their opinions.

As mentioned before - I do think it is fair play what business's and business owners contribute. When I clicked in there was a Denis something or other local dentist that had contributed to have gay marriages stopped. He will never be my dentist.

Malene

[MsTerry]

Well, I guess you really are somebody who likes to put their money where their mouth is.
Now let's see how consistent you are in your belief-system.
I am going to have to assume that you do all of the following:
you don't use freeways since they are federally funded, which would mean supporting George Bush
you don't walk on sidewalks anymore, caus they were poured by somebody who supports prop 8
you don't travel to any of the states that voted for Bush and or McCain
you don't talk to anyone who is from Texas since they are responsible for TWO Bushes
You won't visit any Black, Asian or Latino business until they can prove they didn't vote for things you don't approve of
You are no longer on speaking terms with your family, except for the ones that believe what you tell them.

Yeah, I think you are on to something, maybe we should make people wear buttons on how they voted and that way we can separate the good ones from the bad ones.

As mentioned before - I do think it is fair play what business's and business owners contribute. When I clicked in there was a Denis something or other local dentist that had contributed to have gay marriages stopped. He will never be my dentist.

Malene

[tdavis]

Wow, Ms. Terry, A little too much caffeine this morning??

I wouldn't support a business who had treated a good friend or family member badly. As I see it, folks who supported Prop 8 treated a number of my good friends badly. I'd like to know before I give them any part of my dwindling funds. There are plenty of business owners from which to choose, why shouldn't I be allowed to make a choice?

I don't think this is any different than the recent thread about shopping at local places who treat their employees well.

[MsTerry]

Wow, Ms. Terry, A little too much caffeine this morning??

It sounds like you can use a little caffeine to wake up, I posted last night, my dear.
But I gather from your answer that you are perpetually confused.

I wouldn't support a business who had treated a good friend or family member badly. As I see it, folks who supported Prop 8 treated a number of my good friends badly. I'd like to know before I give them any part of my dwindling funds.

People voted! nobody treated anybody badly, except now it looks like the people who lost want to punish the people who won.

There are plenty of business owners from which to choose, why shouldn't I be allowed to make a choice?

You choose to punish, which is different from voting.
If prop 8 had lost, would you have stopped shopping too at certain businesses? I don't think so either, in fact I think a number of people would go to those businesses and flaunt their "tolerance".

I don't think this is any different than the recent thread about shopping at local places who treat their employees well.

You chose to punish because you lost, which is different from being treated poorly.
I suggest you read post #3 from Braggi

[Neshamah]

Prop 8 was an attack on marriage, and now fewer marriages will be legally recognized because of it. Those who claim to support marriage should be outraged.

Marriage is already under attack in Europe and in Hollywood. When one group of people is denied the right to marry, it gets a lot easier to start denying that right to others.

~ Neshamah

[MsTerry]

Can you give us some examples to clarify your statement?

.

Marriage is already under attack in Europe and in Hollywood. When one group of people is denied the right to marry, it gets a lot easier to start denying that right to others.

~ Neshamah