Getting rid of garbage

[Mike Peterson]

My wife, myself, and our daughter are only using the 20 gallon garbage container from the new garbage collection company, Redwood Empire Disposal, which took over recently from Empire Waste Management. It is the smallest container they offer. It comes out to almost $200 a year.

Thing is that we have become much more efficient in eliminating our own garbage and we don't even fill up the 20 gallon container every week. Many weeks, the little container is completely empty. We recycle ALL of our own paper products, which is most of the recycling material that used to go out in the big, blue bin, which is probably about 50 gallons or more. The only thing that makes it out to the blue bin are all of our plastic, glass, and metal waste, of which most is plastic. Some empty bottles and cans go out.

My question to the community is what can we do to COMPLETELY eliminate all of our garbage and save the $200 a year we pay to the garbage company? Is there a cooperative effort that can be arrived at with my neighbors? Is there a place that will take ALL of my plastic, glass, and metal? Whatever the solution is, if it costs us anything less than $200 a year then it's worth it.

I like the idea of becoming independent not only of the garbage company but of PG&E as well. I like the idea that we can all become responsible for disposing, recycling, or reusing ALL of our garbage, and eliminate or drastically reduce the need for a landfill.

Any ideas at all will be greatly appreciated. Thank you again for being such a great community and resource and for being involved and caring.

Mike

[Braggi]

...
My question to the community is what can we do to COMPLETELY eliminate all of our garbage and save the $200 a year we pay to the garbage company? ...

It's a great question, Mike, but most municipalities make it illegal to NOT have garbage pickup service even if the home isn't occupied. Go figger!

If you live within city limits you might be stuck.

-Jeff

[Mike Peterson]

We live in an unincorporated part of the Sonoma County, just outside of Santa Rosa City limits.

Might there be an exception in our case? Seems awful strange that the authorities demand we pay at least $200 to some private garbage company, even if we don't produce any garbage! I'm not saying I don't believe you. It's almost surreal that there is a legal liability involved with not contracting a garbage collection company.

In any case, I'd love to see an alternative. I'd like to see what we can do with our remaining garbage and make zero garbage a reality, if it's at all possible. This would be fantastic if most people could accomplish this then we would eliminate much of the waste problem our society has. Landfills would last at least a century or more before we had to make another one.

Can a special collection of recycled materials take place where people would smelt the glass and reuse for other needed items such as mason jars or windows, drinking glasses, or who knows?

And I'm still intrigued by the idea of telling PG&E and other companies to take a hike and stop leaching off of our house.

Thanks again,

Mike

It's a great question, Mike, but most municipalities make it illegal to NOT have garbage pickup service even if the home isn't occupied. Go figger!

If you live within city limits you might be stuck.

-Jeff

[Sara S]

The County "Dump" on Hwy 116 in Pocket Canyon (between Forestville and Guerneville) has "Mixed Recycling" dumpsters, where I take all glass, metal, paper, cardboard, and most plastics. It's free to go in and do this.

The plastic bags go to nearly any supermarket or to WalMart, where there are bins for them (at G&G in SR, it's just inside the West door).

Sara S.

My wife, myself, and our daughter are only using the 20 gallon garbage container from the new garbage collection company, Redwood Empire Disposal, which took over recently from Empire Waste Management. It is the smallest container they offer. It comes out to almost $200 a year.

Thing is that we have become much more efficient in eliminating our own garbage and we don't even fill up the 20 gallon container every week. Many weeks, the little container is completely empty. We recycle ALL of our own paper products, which is most of the recycling material that used to go out in the big, blue bin, which is probably about 50 gallons or more. The only thing that makes it out to the blue bin are all of our plastic, glass, and metal waste, of which most is plastic. Some empty bottles and cans go out.

My question to the community is what can we do to COMPLETELY eliminate all of our garbage and save the $200 a year we pay to the garbage company? Is there a cooperative effort that can be arrived at with my neighbors? Is there a place that will take ALL of my plastic, glass, and metal? Whatever the solution is, if it costs us anything less than $200 a year then it's worth it.

I like the idea of becoming independent not only of the garbage company but of PG&E as well. I like the idea that we can all become responsible for disposing, recycling, or reusing ALL of our garbage, and eliminate or drastically reduce the need for a landfill.

Any ideas at all will be greatly appreciated. Thank you again for being such a great community and resource and for being involved and caring.

Mike

[Melodymama]

quote=Sara S; "The plastic bags go to nearly any supermarket or to WalMart, where there are bins for them (at G&G in SR, it's just inside the West door)."

NEW RECYCLE DATA
About a week ago it was announced that county wide (sonoma) plastic bags can go into the streetside blue recycle bins. Yes, just like all the other recycle stuff. Yea Laura

[Braggi]

We live in an unincorporated part of the Sonoma County, just outside of Santa Rosa City limits. [snip]

Can a special collection of recycled materials take place where people would smelt the glass and reuse for other needed items such as mason jars or windows, drinking glasses, or who knows?

And I'm still intrigued by the idea of telling PG&E and other companies to take a hike and stop leaching off of our house. ...

Since you're not in a city, I don't see why you couldn't just call the waste pickup company and tell them to come and get their cans and end your contract. I certainly have no such contract with anyone. We're responsible for our own trash. We generate only small amounts of "landfill" ourselves. We take a small "shopping bag" size bag of trash out about once a week and deposit it in a trash can at a local shopping center where we spend several thousands of dollars a year. I feel we are paying for that use. There is also a Carl's Jr. in that center and I often use their trash can. I don't buy from them, but I do pick up trash from their restaurant along Mill Creek Rd. on a regular basis. I feel justified in returning it to them. Most of the trash along our roads comes from fast food places. The rest is beer cans and those white plastic shopping bags, most of which blow out of trash trucks as they are on their rounds. I often stop along the road, pick up a white bag or two, and fill them with beer cans and fast food trash.

Back to your glass recycling question: glass is a resource on a par with aluminum that really makes sense to recycle. There are a lot of uses for crushed glass including adding to asphalt to make wear resistant roads. If the glass is actually melted down to make new glass objects, a whole lot of energy is saved. If only we could refill all those used wine bottles! There used to be a company in Sonoma County that collected, cleaned and resold used wine bottles, but they couldn't turn a profit. If the state modified the 2020 law that created the "California Redemption Value" to cover wine bottles, it would instantly be cost effective to reuse wine bottles.

This is from Wikipedia's article on Glass Recycling: Reuse of glass containers is preferable to recycling according to the waste hierarchy. Refillable bottles are used extensively in many European countries and, until relatively recently, in the United States. In Denmark 98% of bottles are refillable and 98% of those are returned by consumers. ^[2] These systems are typically supported by container deposit laws and other regulations. In some developing nations like India and Brazil, the cost of new bottles often forces manufacturers to collect and refill old glass bottles for selling carbonated and other drinks. [end quote]

I think it's stupid we don't demand reuse. In many of the "fast food" equivalent restaurants in Germany you get your beverage (probably beer) in a heavy glass mug. You pay about $2 deposit for the mug which you can turn back in at the end of your meal or drive away with. Since most places use the same mugs you can turn it in at almost any restaurant to get your deposit back or use it as deposit for your next mug of beverage. You see very few disposable utensils in Germany and very little trash on the streets. (What a surprise!) We should do as well.

There is a big lesson to all you free enterprise supporters here. Free enterprise won't make reuse happen, or even recycling. It is laws that change the habits of nations. Individuals won't do it and businesses certainly won't do it. The 2020 law in California has been dramatically successful in reducing trash in the streets and encouraging recycling. Our waste stream has been dramatically reduced as a result. However, we can do so much better than this and improvements will only happen through the introduction of legislation. [stepping off soapbox]

So call your trash collection company and tell them you're ready to end the contract and they can pick up the cans.

Good luck!

-Jeff

[Mike Peterson]

Thank you for all of that fantastic information, Jeff! I did a search for the 2020 law but couldn't find it except for an interesting British Green Party web page that talks about "zero waste strategy:"
https://www.greenparty.org.uk/files/...2003/waste.htm

In any case, I still don't have all of my bases covered regarding EVERY type of garbage, such as strong chemicals, miscellaneous gross garbage that we can't feed our animals (we don't feed our chickens chicken meat, for example), and a variety of other irregular or even regular wastes that don't fit nicely into the major categories of paper, glass, metal, plastic, food scraps, etc. I would have to find an involuntary 'host' garbage receiver such as a local supermarket, gas station, fast food place, etc. This is probably the last obstacle for me because I feel uneasy looking swiftly in both directions immediately before I slam dunk my waste into someone else's container. Not that they can't or shouldn't handle it but there is something about it that makes me feel uncomfortable. Funny thing is, my brother has been doing that for many years (15 or 20?) and hasn't paid a garbage bill in as long, aaand he lives in an incorporated area in Marin. I think he simply refused to pay the garbage collectors and they left him alone.

Thanks again and I really appreciate your input. It helps and I am learning new stuff that I didn't know before, which brings me closer to my ideal of "zero garbage" or "no garbage company leeching off of me."

Mike

Since you're not in a city, I don't see why you couldn't just call the waste pickup company and tell them to come and get their cans and end your contract. I certainly have no such contract with anyone. We're responsible for our own trash. We generate only small amounts of "landfill" ourselves. We take a small "shopping bag" size bag of trash out about once a week and deposit it in a trash can at a local shopping center where we spend several thousands of dollars a year. I feel we are paying for that use. There is also a Carl's Jr. in that center and I often use their trash can. I don't buy from them, but I do pick up trash from their restaurant along Mill Creek Rd. on a regular basis. I feel justified in returning it to them. Most of the trash along our roads comes from fast food places. The rest is beer cans and those white plastic shopping bags, most of which blow out of trash trucks as they are on their rounds. I often stop along the road, pick up a white bag or two, and fill them with beer cans and fast food trash.

Back to your glass recycling question: glass is a resource on a par with aluminum that really makes sense to recycle. There are a lot of uses for crushed glass including adding to asphalt to make wear resistant roads. If the glass is actually melted down to make new glass objects, a whole lot of energy is saved. If only we could refill all those used wine bottles! There used to be a company in Sonoma County that collected, cleaned and resold used wine bottles, but they couldn't turn a profit. If the state modified the 2020 law that created the "California Redemption Value" to cover wine bottles, it would instantly be cost effective to reuse wine bottles.

This is from Wikipedia's article on Glass Recycling: Reuse of glass containers is preferable to recycling according to the waste hierarchy. Refillable bottles are used extensively in many European countries and, until relatively recently, in the United States. In Denmark 98% of bottles are refillable and 98% of those are returned by consumers. ^[2] These systems are typically supported by container deposit laws and other regulations. In some developing nations like India and Brazil, the cost of new bottles often forces manufacturers to collect and refill old glass bottles for selling carbonated and other drinks. [end quote]

I think it's stupid we don't demand reuse. In many of the "fast food" equivalent restaurants in Germany you get your beverage (probably beer) in a heavy glass mug. You pay about $2 deposit for the mug which you can turn back in at the end of your meal or drive away with. Since most places use the same mugs you can turn it in at almost any restaurant to get your deposit back or use it as deposit for your next mug of beverage. You see very few disposable utensils in Germany and very little trash on the streets. (What a surprise!) We should do as well.

There is a big lesson to all you free enterprise supporters here. Free enterprise won't make reuse happen, or even recycling. It is laws that change the habits of nations. Individuals won't do it and businesses certainly won't do it. The 2020 law in California has been dramatically successful in reducing trash in the streets and encouraging recycling. Our waste stream has been dramatically reduced as a result. However, we can do so much better than this and improvements will only happen through the introduction of legislation. [stepping off soapbox]

So call your trash collection company and tell them you're ready to end the contract and they can pick up the cans.

Good luck!

-Jeff

[Braggi]

Thank you for all of that fantastic information, Jeff! I did a search for the 2020 law but couldn't find it ...

You're welcome. Way back when I worked developing a database program for a company called 2020 Recycling Centers that named itself after the law creating the CRV. Here's the Wikipedia entry about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califo...demption_Value

Although 2020 isn't mentioned, that's what it was. I think 2020 Recycling is still in business in southern CA.

...
In any case, I still don't have all of my bases covered regarding EVERY type of garbage, such as strong chemicals, miscellaneous gross garbage that we can't feed our animals (we don't feed our chickens chicken meat, for example), and a variety of other irregular or even regular wastes that don't fit nicely into the major categories of paper, glass, metal, plastic, food scraps, etc. ...

Do you have a garbage disposal? A compost pile? You can put most organic "stuff" down the garbage disposal although I think it's a waste of a valuable resource since it can all be composted. If you are on septic (I suppose you probably are) avoid putting much of anything down the disposal because it really doesn't get eaten up by the bacteria the way human waste does. You can certainly dig a hole and throw it in if it's organic (meat scraps, bones etc. all qualify). Strong chemicals can be turned at the County dump on Meecham Rd., I think any time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. There are also regular "toxics roundups" at various locations around the County where you can turn in up to five gallons at a pop. Don't mix chemicals and don't mix water with them prior to turning them in though. Outside of that, do what you can to avoid collecting such things.

...
I would have to find an involuntary 'host' garbage receiver such as a local supermarket, gas station, fast food place, etc. This is probably the last obstacle for me because I feel uneasy looking swiftly in both directions immediately before I slam dunk my waste into someone else's container. Not that they can't or shouldn't handle it but there is something about it that makes me feel uncomfortable. ...

Well I've given my justifications. You have to come up with your own.

...
Thanks again and I really appreciate your input. It helps and I am learning new stuff that I didn't know before, which brings me closer to my ideal of "zero garbage" or "no garbage company leeching off of me."

Mike

Well, I salute you for even thinking about it. Most folks in the US can't even imagine they'll ever reduce their output of garbage to less than a bag a week.

Anyone else out there with good suggestions?

-Jeff

PS. I also can't believe the massive industry in the US that produces "garbage bags." New virgin plastic bags made for the purpose of throwing them away!?!? What will they think of next? I use the white plastic bags I find along roadways or that I get when I forget my canvas shopping bags. Somehow I never run out of them.

[Mike Peterson]

Since we have a little bit of land, we always collect almost all of our organic waste in our combination compost and food scraps bucket in the kitchen. Even the stuff that our chickens don't eat, such as coffee grounds and the lint from the clothe dryer, goes in there. We then dump it all inside our large chicken pen where our birds are range free 24/7, eating grass and bugs along with the chicken scratch we buy at the feed store.

Yes, you're right, anything organic is a resource! That's one of the reasons why I get such a big thrill regarding what we're talking about. It's essentially turning garbage into gold. It's just a matter of educating people and their thinking and then retooling our society to make it a reality. All of this has a lot to do with the basic idea of working with nature and not against her. If we fight against nature, we are fighting against ourselves. Pretty obvious to you and me but the idea hasn't really dawned on most people. And yes, we do have a garbage disposal but I'm loathe to use that way because as I've explained previously, we use almost all of our waste organic material (although I'm not talking shit here, that's another worthwhile conversation. Ever read the 'Humanure Handbook?').

Regarding garbage bags, I read somewhere that corn is being used as a source material for making CDs. I don't know where this is today but these 'corn' CDs are supposed to last from 10 to 50 years before they deteriorate. Corn made garbage bags could be made and the plastic directed to better uses. Evidently, the corn bags will eventually biodegrade back into the soil and won't need to last nearly as long as the CDs.

Thanks again,

Mike

You're welcome. Way back when I worked developing a database program for a company called 2020 Recycling Centers that named itself after the law creating the CRV. Here's the Wikipedia entry about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califo...demption_Value

Although 2020 isn't mentioned, that's what it was. I think 2020 Recycling is still in business in southern CA.



Do you have a garbage disposal? A compost pile? You can put most organic "stuff" down the garbage disposal although I think it's a waste of a valuable resource since it can all be composted. If you are on septic (I suppose you probably are) avoid putting much of anything down the disposal because it really doesn't get eaten up by the bacteria the way human waste does. You can certainly dig a hole and throw it in if it's organic (meat scraps, bones etc. all qualify). Strong chemicals can be turned at the County dump on Meecham Rd., I think any time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. There are also regular "toxics roundups" at various locations around the County where you can turn in up to five gallons at a pop. Don't mix chemicals and don't mix water with them prior to turning them in though. Outside of that, do what you can to avoid collecting such things.



Well I've given my justifications. You have to come up with your own.



Well, I salute you for even thinking about it. Most folks in the US can't even imagine they'll ever reduce their output of garbage to less than a bag a week.

Anyone else out there with good suggestions?

-Jeff

PS. I also can't believe the massive industry in the US that produces "garbage bags." New virgin plastic bags made for the purpose of throwing them away!?!? What will they think of next? I use the white plastic bags I find along roadways or that I get when I forget my canvas shopping bags. Somehow I never run out of them.

[Braggi]

... Ever read the 'Humanure Handbook?').

Regarding garbage bags, I read somewhere that corn is being used as a source material for making CDs. ... Corn made garbage bags could be made and the plastic directed to better uses. Evidently, the corn bags will eventually biodegrade back into the soil ...

Humanure? Now you're taking shit! I have a copy of the old book: "The Toilet Papers," a classic in the outhouse. Humanure takes it further. I even have a little composting toilet I use here during the warm months. I should set up a system for my regular bathroom, but I get resistance from the wife and daughter. Oh well.

On the topic of composting toilets: I have a proposal for the County Supervisor wannabes out there. How about converting all government buildings to composting toilet systems? That would save a whole lot of water, pay for itself over time, and set an example for businesses. They do it in Europe. The US military does it. The Park services do it. There's no reason we can't have clean, sanitary composting toilet systems in all our schools and Government buildings.

Here's a college in Michigan with a composting system: https://www.clivusmultrum.com/proj_g...g_calvin.shtml

Look all over that Clivus Multrum site. It's got a lot of good info. Residential units too.

Oh, and the corn based trash bags? I like the idea. Of course, it would be better if they used industrial hemp to make the bags and fed the corn to people and farm animals, but you know how that goes. I've seen dog poop pickup bags that are biodegradable. I suppose you could just throw the whole bag in the composting toilet? Don't know about that.

-Jeff

[Dynamique]

RealGoods and a few other catalogs are carrying a composting system that can compost "...meat, fish, dairy and even bones right in your kitchen without the requirements of turning it like you do outdoor compost and without creating unpleasant smells. Developed in Japan, the All Food Recycling Compost Kit quickly and odorlessly converts your organic waste into a high-grade soil conditioner through the use of effective microbes or Bokashi - a Japanese word meaning "fermented organic matter."

Here's the page for this product on the RealGoods site:
https://www.realgoods.com/product/ho...ith+bokashi.do

Has anyone tried one of these Bokashi systems? If so, does it work?

They also carry "BioBag" a corn-based biodegradable plastic baggie product:
https://www.realgoods.com/product/ho...-trash-bags.do

It's great to see all this attention being paid to reducing/avoiding garbage!
- Kirsten

You can certainly dig a hole and throw it in if it's organic (meat scraps, bones etc. all qualify).
Anyone else out there with good suggestions?
-Jeff

[alanora]

I told my neighbors of the fact that the trash is collected and recyclables are not separated out. I save them in my kitchen and put it in their can when they put it out. I offered to split the cost. I have been using their blue bin for years now and am very grateful. Do composting toilets emit an odor? me

RealGoods and a few other catalogs are carrying a composting system that can compost "...meat, fish, dairy and even bones right in your kitchen without the requirements of turning it like you do outdoor compost and without creating unpleasant smells. Developed in Japan, the All Food Recycling Compost Kit quickly and odorlessly converts your organic waste into a high-grade soil conditioner through the use of effective microbes or Bokashi - a Japanese word meaning "fermented organic matter."

Here's the page for this product on the RealGoods site:
https://www.realgoods.com/product/ho...ith+bokashi.do

Has anyone tried one of these Bokashi systems? If so, does it work?

They also carry "BioBag" a corn-based biodegradable plastic baggie product:
https://www.realgoods.com/product/ho...-trash-bags.do

It's great to see all this attention being paid to reducing/avoiding garbage!
- Kirsten

[Nemea Laessig]

Biobags are available at Whole Foods in Sebastopol.

Rot on!

~Nem