McCain "native born" fiasco provides the backdoor to Arnolds' Presidency?

[decterlove]

Gene Burns on KGO suggests tonight, "Isn't it time we remove from the constitutional requirement for running for the office of the United States the words "native born?"

Watch this mini-fiasco of John McCain being for ineligible for the U.S. Presidency because he was born in the Panama Canal lead to a relaxation of constitutional laws requiring a candidate for the Presidency to be a "native born" citizen.

Is this the back door Arnold needs to run in 2012 after four years of Obama's Presidency fails to repair the damage caused by eight years of the Bush Administration?

[Valley Oak]

Yes, absolutely it is. This is clearly an attempt at getting Arnold to become another Republican puppet prez. Talk of reforming the Constitution to make the Arnhole eligible for the White House has now been going on for years, essentially since he first took office as governor earlier this decade.

Gene Burns on KGO suggests tonight, "Isn't it time we remove from the constitutional requirement for running for the office of the United States the words "native born?"

Watch this mini-fiasco of John McCain being for ineligible for the U.S. Presidency because he was born in the Panama Canal lead to a relaxation of constitutional laws requiring a candidate for the Presidency to be a "native born" citizen.

Is this the back door Arnold needs to run in 2012 after four years of Obama's Presidency fails to repair the damage caused by eight years of the Bush Administration?

[decterlove]

Thanks, Valley Oak. Most people don't believe me on this one but I think it's a real easy read. And the ONLY reason Arnold married into the Kennedy family and claimed the Governorship of California through the back door is because his goal is to become the most powerful political leader on the planet. And that is a disturbing proposition.

Yes, absolutely it is. This is clearly an attempt at getting Arnold to become another Republican puppet prez. Talk of reforming the Constitution to make the Arnhole eligible for the White House has now been going on for years, essentially since he first took office as governor earlier this decade.

[Braggi]

No, no, no.

You guys are all wrong.

McCain was born in a US territory to a pair of Govt. employees. He's legal.

Arnie isn't.

Arnie has proven completely incapable of dealing with the problems of Koleefornea. He couldn't get elected president of his own company.

Forget about it. The Constitution won't be bent or broken for the GropenFurher.

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

Schwarznegger doesn't call the shots. He influences maybe 5% of public policy in California. Eisenhower, Reagan, and Bush Jr. were the same visible mouthpieces of the real people in power. The puppet presidents do as they're told. They don't even run the different governments. Vice President Dick Cheney, for example, exerts far more influence than the asshole 'W.' If the reactionaries, conservatives, capitalists, and religious fanatics (the most troublesome lot for the Republicans) manage to get the Arnhole into the Oval Office then he will be much the same thing. Arnie might actually be a little less reactionary in his 5% of public policy influence but that's it. Once he's in the highest government office in the country the big boys will call at least 95% of the shots. He will be used the same way 'W' and the others were.

The 'Presinator' won't be anymore disturbing than 'W' is now. 'W' has done so much damage in so many areas of our society that it would take 30 years of progressive Democratic administrations to undo it all. This happened in large part because the American people, in their infinite fear and stupidity gave these maniacs a majority in both houses of Congress for six consecutive years. The American people don't have the stature to give a Democratic president more than two years (Clinton) with a majority in both houses because they are too pathetic as a voting public.

The great, honorable, and decent German people democratically elected Adolph Hitler to power because Hitler represented the average German, who was full of hatred, racism, fear, and the desire for empire and revenge (WWI). Hitler simply filled the spot and said what the Germans wanted to hear and fed off of the worst characteristics of the German culture at that time. The American people are no different than the Germans were when they elected that maniac into power. Americans are well reflected by Bush Jr. and will be again if they decide to elect the Arnhole to the Presinatorship. Let's hope that the better side of the American people, which is very well hidden, will come into its own and elect either Obama, Rodham, or someone that is not a Republican fascist pig. But if Americans do elect another fascist pig like 'W' then that will be an accurate reflection of the kind of repulsive trash that the American people are and will continue to be.

Edward

Thanks, Valley Oak. Most people don't believe me on this one but I think it's a real easy read. And the ONLY reason Arnold married into the Kennedy family and claimed the Governorship of California through the back door is because his goal is to become the most powerful political leader on the planet. And that is a disturbing proposition.

[Braggi]

Some of us don't consider ourselves repulsive trash or fascists so I'll ask you to tone down your rhetoric. I know folks who voted for W twice who fit neither moniker. Fear? Oh yes, but blame the media so much more than W.

Arnie could never even fill out the forms to run, so don't worry about it. He won't even get a cabinet post; ever.

Fuggeddaboutit.

-Jeff

[scorpiomoon]

I appreciated the comments on Fascism in Germany and how the people came to bring Hitler to power. However the next thing I hear is blame the media, & people who voted for GW Bush being sane or reasonable. First off the media manipulated the 'perception' of Gore did you catch that---the perception changed. Then he was stiff and a little unlikeable somehow, Now, he is a statesman. he "seems" likeable its all in the "seeming" which often is not the same as the actuality. GW "seemed" likeable, "seemed" smart enough, I guess--- right. This too for now we all "like" Obama he is more "likeable" so you see how this manipulation is based a little bit on who you would "like" maybe to have dinner with the most. I do NOT need to "like" my candidate. I usually do but its not necessary for my vote. Ridiculous criteria for electing a president, #1. Maybe the answer is to select the criteria that the people would choose for the perspective job applicant.
Lets make the criteria and stick to it even if something stupid comes out. (John edwards paying $100 for a haircut for instance--) Purrr fect example. See he couldn't be for the working class because he pays too much for a haircut!!!!

I agree the Media is asleep at the wheel in the sense that no one is asking the right questions. Then we had Kerry and the "perception" of him was that he he may have somehow faked heroism while GW simply avoided any attempt to be a hero. There is little doubt that these two favorite sons (Gore & Kerry) gave up the election too quickly. They did not fight the results for long before conceeding. Is this collusion? of a sort? Does anyone think that but me? It is as if the Pres the media the congress-- all the elites are draining light, blood, money, resources out from all corners of the planet. Now we are complaining because they are coming for us too!!
I accuse my republican relatives of being "uninformed" and "short sighted," and "dim" on occaisson but demonizing the dim is a Rove tactic and so if we can stay closer to higher ground, we should try that. I don't know.
The voting machines are rigged now anyway. Why is it no one is
insuring that the votes will actually count ? It's because the whole thing is for show. I say
Bully. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of our democracy. In a few years I might even get arrested for saying this. Question. HOW CAN THE SANE and intelligent wrestle control of govt from the corrupt, the war mongers and fascists??

The personality type that seeks power is sort of the antithesis of what we would want in a leadership position. My "perception" is that there was once a conscience or ethical standard in the upper crusts or ruling elites of society and now there is no chivalry or attempts to utopian ideals or true democracy. That is our bottom line I think. Too overworked to fight it, which is also a part of the trick. I have ranted long enough-----

[decterlove]

Arnie has proven completely incapable of dealing with the problems of Koleefornea. He couldn't get elected president of his own company.

Arnie could never even fill out the forms to run, so don't worry about it. He won't even get a cabinet post; ever.

Fuggeddaboutit.

-Jeff

Jeff, I'm afraid I have to say you are utterly naive in this matter. And it a very dangerous thing to underestimate a man like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Easy to make fun of yes. Just like Dubya, and look at the damage he's done. And to mention a far greater evil, Hitler, of course, was taken to be a total joke until he began to gain power in the most aggressive fashion imaginable.

A failed painter compared to someone who has already achieved Mr. Universe like 6 times, made 200 million dollars plus in movie deals in spite of a thick Austrian accent, married into the Kennedy clan, and attained the Governorship of California thru a back door loop hole? Underestimation of an opponent...a most dangerous tendency.

Arnold may be the most politically ambitious human being on the planet today. He will run for the office. And he will very likely attain it and run this country one day in the semi-near future. Who else do you think the Republicans will have offer up in four years from now? Not pleasant to think about. Let's hope Barack can actually make real changes, and survive four years in office to run again.

Just remember you heard it first on Wacco Community Bulletin Board. I post in only in the hopes that it might catch the attention of somebody who might actually be able to affect the course of the future times in America in some mildly significant way. I'm just a broke aging snake charmer getting around on a bicycle, and living in some town where I don't want to be. But you know what Paul Simon said about the writing on the wall. Nuff said.

[Sonomamark]

Jeff is correct that this isn't going to result in any kind of significant shift. The reasons are both practical and political.

Practically speaking, it makes no sense that someone born to American parents living abroad is not a "naturally born" American citizen. Such a person is born a citizen, and does not have to undergo naturalization.

More on the practical: there is no way any court in this country is going to rule that children of military families serving abroad can't become President. A total non-starter.

As Jeff points out, this doesn't do anything for Schwarznegger. He was born a foreign citizen, and had to be naturalized an American. Totally different situation from McCain's.

On the political side, this conspiracy theory doesn't hold any water because right-wing Republicans hate Schwarznegger. Scalia, Roberts and Alito wouldn't throw the guy a rope if he were drowning, much less torque the Constitution to help make him eligible for the White House. And Thomas basically does whatever Scalia does.

Finally, think about the implications for the conservative court members if they made it possible for a foreign-born, naturalized citizen to become President. Given what's happening with the country's demographics, it wouldn't be too long before we would be looking at the possibility of a President who was born...dare I say it? Mexican.

You think the wingnuts on the Supreme Court are going to lay the groundwork for THAT?

I kind of doubt it, myself.


Sonomamark

No, no, no.

You guys are all wrong.

McCain was born in a US territory to a pair of Govt. employees. He's legal.

Arnie isn't.

Arnie has proven completely incapable of dealing with the problems of Koleefornea. He couldn't get elected president of his own company.

Forget about it. The Constitution won't be bent or broken for the GropenFurher.

-Jeff

[Valley Oak]

I think that there is a much deeper issue here than the original idea of this thread. In other words, I don't think the problem is if the Governator might become the Presinator. The real issue is the psyche of the american people. Why is this the real issue? Well, simply because Schwarznegger is not the only possible Republican candidate for the U.S. presidency.

More to the point, even if Arnold never presents himself, which I seriously doubt that he ever will, in a country of 300 million people, there is no shortage of assholes like 'W' or Reagan to run for the White House. This thread needs to evolve. I don't care if Arnold runs or even wins because if it isn't him, it will be someone else.

So back to my point of the american psyche, if we don't want another fascist pig like 'W' or Reagan in the Oval Office then the real issue lies with the citizens and their psychological predispositions. Although the economy is crucial, it's clearly not the only factor as the 2000 and 2004 elections demonstrated. (Actually, 2004 was the result of fear created by 9/11 and it was excellently exploited by Republicans). If it had been as purely economic as some people say then the results of those elections should have been different although this is not the last word on such a good debate.

Americans elected (we can segue to stolen elections in another thread) 'W' in 2000 because they were disturbed about Clinton's adultery. The economy doesn't figure here at all; it has to do with the kind stupid ass people that americans are. They want a 'pope' for president, not a real man. In Europe, a prime minister or president's personal life is not an issue at all and adulterous or polyamorous heads of state govern all the time in that continent (Andreus Papandreu of Greece, Francois Mitterand of France, etc, etc, etc). The result is that Europeans gift themselves with the best possible leadership and talent and the brightest possible future for their country.

But we americans are not like that. We americans are mean spirited assholes with little common sense. We are bullies, arrogant, cruel, religiously deluded, invaders, mass murderers, thieves, hypocritical to the extreme, and astonishingly selfish. We want a bloody president waging bloody war in overseas countries. Not that ALL americans are that way but most are. That is the american psyche and that is the reason why we will continue to elect assholes to the executive branch. Whether it is the Arnhole or not is thoroughly irrelevant.

Edward

Jeff is correct that this isn't going to result in any kind of significant shift. The reasons are both practical and political.

Practically speaking, it makes no sense that someone born to American parents living abroad is not a "naturally born" American citizen. Such a person is born a citizen, and does not have to undergo naturalization.

More on the practical: there is no way any court in this country is going to rule that children of military families serving abroad can't become President. A total non-starter.

As Jeff points out, this doesn't do anything for Schwarznegger. He was born a foreign citizen, and had to be naturalized an American. Totally different situation from McCain's.

On the political side, this conspiracy theory doesn't hold any water because right-wing Republicans hate Schwarznegger. Scalia, Roberts and Alito wouldn't throw the guy a rope if he were drowning, much less torque the Constitution to help make him eligible for the White House. And Thomas basically does whatever Scalia does.

Finally, think about the implications for the conservative court members if they made it possible for a foreign-born, naturalized citizen to become President. Given what's happening with the country's demographics, it wouldn't be too long before we would be looking at the possibility of a President who was born...dare I say it? Mexican.

You think the wingnuts on the Supreme Court are going to lay the groundwork for THAT?

I kind of doubt it, myself.


Sonomamark

[decterlove]

I am not offering up a conspiracy theory just a clear pattern that I see developing. And yes, looking at it practically and logically from the side you are viewing it from, Mark, it does seem like an unlikely development. McCain's place of birth is being brought up as an issue, however, in this race and I'm sure whatever is decided will be resolved in his favor.

However, there is talk of liberalizing this law and removing the clause "natural born". I listen to KGO a lot and I found this to be a rather surprising topic to be offered up by Burns at this point in time.

If you look, however, at this topic from the angle of having followed Schwarznegger's career for some 30 plus years, in conjunction with the highly disturbing direction the U.S. has taken under the Bush Administration, you find a very alarming pattern emerging.

For whatever the laws happen to be, and whichever way the court currently leans, Arnold is a force to be recognized with. He came to this country with a clear set of ambitions and has achieved every goal he set for himself in spite of whatever obstacles happened to be in his way. He knows how to plan, how to manipulate, how to build powerful alliances, how to intimidate, and finally how to take advantage of whatever tiny opening that presents itself to him. At each juncture in his career he has managed to jump exponentially onto a much higher playing field.

All of the various facets of his life would be easy to dismiss if it were not for one singular act he took in 1986. He married into the Kennedy family. Arnold could have had just about any woman he wanted at that point in his life. There can only be one reason for him to marry into the foremost political clan in America. A serious ambition to enter the political arena.

Now he is Governor of the tenth largest economy in the world. Which he achieved through a back door, an exception in the California political process! Anyone that thinks Mr.Schwarznegger will be even marginally satisfied with the Governorship of California is simply not familiar with the nature of this unique personality.

The pattern I see developing is simply this. If we are lucky enough to have a Democratic candidate in office for the next four years, it is still highly questionable whether they will be able to reverse the damage done in the last eight years of Bush. The world is also facing continued destabilization in the Middle East and other key regions. America is likely to experience some sort of another terrorist attack in the next four years, possibly a dirty bomb in a larger city. We may face further natural disasters on the scale of a Katrina, possible an earthquake in California, or even a levee break in Sacramento, etc. The U.S. economy is already stretched to the breaking point....we are already in, or on the brink of a fairly serious recession.

I am not an alarmist or a rabid conspiracy theorist by nature.

I always loved the Johnny Cash line from The 20th Century is Almost Over,

"You know the Judgement Day is gettin' nearer there it is in the rear view mirror, If you duck down I could see a little clearer"

But I see little reason to believe that the world at large, and this country is particular is stabilizing in any significant or desirable ways. I think we are in for a storm. The question is how big a storm and what is the exact nature of the storm. I am hopeful but skeptical that Obama or Hillary can turn this ship around in four years in the face of any other serious destabilizing events. But if things get significantly worse for Americans, I can guarantee the American psyche will embrace a strong powerful personality like the Governator in a heartbeat. The big question is what will be the nature of the events that will follow that.

Practically speaking, it makes no sense that someone born to American parents living abroad is not a "naturally born" American citizen. Such a person is born a citizen, and does not have to undergo naturalization.

More on the practical: there is no way any court in this country is going to rule that children of military families serving abroad can't become President. A total non-starter.

As Jeff points out, this doesn't do anything for Schwarznegger. He was born a foreign citizen, and had to be naturalized an American. Totally different situation from McCain's.

On the political side, this conspiracy theory doesn't hold any water because right-wing Republicans hate Schwarznegger.

You think the wingnuts on the Supreme Court are going to lay the groundwork for THAT? I kind of doubt it, myself.

Sonomamark

[decterlove]

Well, yeah, Americans are quite capable of all the evils you listed, Edward but the key illusion to disperse is that Americans are somehow truly unique in their propensity for good or evil. Our politicians are always telling us how great were are, how hard working we are, and how much we love freedom, and are willing to sacrifice for it, etc. Well, billions of peoples in the world work hard, desire freedom, and are sometimes willing to die, and sacrifice for it. They just do so in different contexts, and in different countries, and with varying degrees of success.

Americans, themselves, are no more or less inclined to arrogance, cruelty, delusion, fanaticism, imperialism, mass murder, dishonesty, hypocrisy, or selfishness than the French are, or Brazilians, or Ugandans, or Russians, Chinese, Italians, Danes, or the Germans were prior to Hitler's rise in Germany. We are just a cultural amalgam of all sorts of different types of human beings who happen to live in a certain geographical region with certain advantages and certain cultural momentums. The only thing that puts us in the position of creating more evil is that we are currently the "Empire" for better or for worse. And we are, sort of in a unique fashion, an adolescent culture. Many of the cultures you cite in Europe for bringing forth more mature leadership are simply much older, more mature cultures having long passed their "empire" phase and settled into a greater "savoir faire."

And while I agree with you that our leaders are in some sense only reflections of the population at large, history does move forward via the vehicle of personality. While the English during WWII were I'm sure a reservoir of determination, duty and long suffering, it took a Churchill to bring this quality to the fore and guide it through the dark night of Hitler's attempt to conquer Europe. It took a Kennedy to inspire millions of Americans in the early 60s to dream big and embrace the ideals of the 60s. And surely the civil rights movement would not have been ignited without the noble dignity of Martin Luther King, Jr.

So you could argue that these figures are called forth into play from our collective unconscious but surely these were great personalities that may or may not have not been so easily replaced by others of their time. How many Lincolns are there? And Lennons, Dylans, Bucky Fullers? And likewise, there may be only one Arnold.

So I think it's important to pay attention to what personalities arecurrently in play, and most likely to influence events of the future, for better or for worse.

But we americans are not like that. We americans are mean spirited assholes with little common sense. We are bullies, arrogant, cruel, religiously deluded, invaders, mass murderers, thieves, hypocritical to the extreme, and astonishingly selfish.


I think that there is a much deeper issue here than the original idea of this thread. In other words, I don't think the problem is if the Governator might become the Presinator. The real issue is the psyche of the american people. I don't care if Arnold runs or even wins because if it isn't him, it will be someone else.
Edward

[Valley Oak]

Excellent post, Decterlove.

Although there are some quibbles that I will respond to later on, your ideas are outstanding and well stated.

Thanks,

Edward

Well, yeah, Americans are quite capable of all the evils you listed, Edward but the key illusion to disperse is that Americans are somehow truly unique in their propensity for good or evil. Our politicians are always telling us how great were are, how hard working we are, and how much we love freedom, and are willing to sacrifice for it, etc. Well, billions of peoples in the world work hard, desire freedom, and are sometimes willing to die, and sacrifice for it. They just do so in different contexts, and in different countries, and with varying degrees of success.

Americans, themselves, are no more or less inclined to arrogance, cruelty, delusion, fanaticism, imperialism, mass murder, dishonesty, hypocrisy, or selfishness than the French are, or Brazilians, or Ugandans, or Russians, Chinese, Italians, Danes, or the Germans were prior to Hitler's rise in Germany. We are just a cultural amalgam of all sorts of different types of human beings who happen to live in a certain geographical region with certain advantages and certain cultural momentums. The only thing that puts us in the position of creating more evil is that we are currently the "Empire" for better or for worse. And we are, sort of in a unique fashion, an adolescent culture. Many of the cultures you cite in Europe for bringing forth more mature leadership are simply much older, more mature cultures having long passed their "empire" phase and settled into a greater "savoir faire."

And while I agree with you that our leaders are in some sense only reflections of the population at large, history does move forward via the vehicle of personality. While the English during WWII were I'm sure a reservoir of determination, duty and long suffering, it took a Churchill to bring this quality to the fore and guide it through the dark night of Hitler's attempt to conquer Europe. It took a Kennedy to inspire millions of Americans in the early 60s to dream big and embrace the ideals of the 60s. And surely the civil rights movement would not have been ignited without the noble dignity of Martin Luther King, Jr.

So you could argue that these figures are called forth into play from our collective unconscious but surely these were great personalities that may or may not have not been so easily replaced by others of their time. How many Lincolns are there? And Lennons, Dylans, Bucky Fullers? And likewise, there may be only one Arnold.

So I think it's important to pay attention to what personalities arecurrently in play, and most likely to influence events of the future, for better or for worse.