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  1. TopTop #1
    Valley Oak
    Guest

    Animals we eat & our health

    www.meat.org/index-1.asp?c=MYMblogadt907

    When I saw this clip I was horrified to see how the animals are treated from when they are born to how they are slaughtered. Quite frankly, after watching it, I'm tempted to become a vegetarian.

    Does anyone here have any information on how we can get local meat that comes from animals that have been treated and slaughtered humanely? I understand that for many these words may be contradictory. But if we stimulate a local economy that treats animals the right way, without hormones, without mad cow disease, and that will be healthy for our consumption then we will be rewarding those agricultural businesses that do things the right way.

    Any comments?

    Edward
    Last edited by Valley Oak; 09-18-2007 at 11:07 PM.
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  2. TopTop #2
    terriann
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Find Black Sheep Farms, at the Sebastopol Sunday farm market. Or Willowside Meats on the Guerneville across from where Willowside Road comes in from the South.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by roble: View Post
    www.meat.org/index-1.asp?c=MYMblogadt907

    When I saw this clip I was horrified to see how the animals are treated from when they are born to how they are slaughtered. Quite frankly, after watching it, I'm tempted to become a vegetarian.

    Does anyone here have any information on how we can get local meat that comes from animals that have been treated and slaughtered humanely? I understand that for many these words may be contradictory. But if we stimulate a local economy that treats animals the right way, without hormones, without mad cow disease, and that will be healthy for our consumption then we will be rewarding those agricultural businesses that do things the right way.

    Any comments?

    Edward
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  3. TopTop #3
    jitterbug's Avatar
    jitterbug
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Try looking for some sources for humanely treated cattle at this web site:

    https://www.wisefoodways.com/bay/meat.php


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by roble: View Post
    www.meat.org/index-1.asp?c=MYMblogadt907

    When I saw this clip I was horrified to see how the animals are treated from when they are born to how they are slaughtered. Quite frankly, after watching it, I'm tempted to become a vegetarian.

    Does anyone here have any information on how we can get local meat that comes from animals that have been treated and slaughtered humanely? I understand that for many these words may be contradictory. But if we stimulate a local economy that treats animals the right way, without hormones, without mad cow disease, and that will be healthy for our consumption then we will be rewarding those agricultural businesses that do things the right way.

    Any comments?

    Edward
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  4. TopTop #4
    HolisticKids's Avatar
    HolisticKids
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Olivers in Rincon Valley, Santa Rosa has grassfed meat raised humanely in Humbolt County.

    Jane

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by terriann: View Post
    Find Black Sheep Farms, at the Sebastopol Sunday farm market. Or Willowside Meats on the Guerneville across from where Willowside Road comes in from the South.
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  5. TopTop #5
    dragonflydreams
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by roble: View Post
    www.meat.org/index-1.asp?c=MYMblogadt907

    When I saw this clip I was horrified to see how the animals are treated from when they are born to how they are slaughtered. Quite frankly, after watching it, I'm tempted to become a vegetarian.

    Does anyone here have any information on how we can get local meat that comes from animals that have been treated and slaughtered humanely? I understand that for many these words may be contradictory. But if we stimulate a local economy that treats animals the right way, without hormones, without mad cow disease, and that will be healthy for our consumption then we will be rewarding those agricultural businesses that do things the right way.

    Any comments?

    Edward
    HUH???

    "slaughtered humanely"???

    do you know what an oxymoron is?

    can you understand that you have been totally conditioned (social conditioning) to believe it is possible to 'humanely' murder ('slaughter') another Earthling ("animal"), just as people used to be conditioned to believe it was possible to 'humanely' enslave other humans?

    and after admitting many may find your words contradictory, you add:

    "But if we stimulate a local economy that treats animals the right way, without hormones, without mad cow disease, and that will be healthy for our consumption then we will be rewarding those agricultural businesses that do things the right way."

    the "right way"???

    you, of course, mean the socially conditioned psychopathic way...

    a psychopath is one who:
    1) harms (murders, slaughters 'humanely') another intentionally without any remorse or regret (i.e. no remorse or regret for for slaughtering another 'humanely')
    2) has no consideration for the rights, needs or feelings for the one slaughtered 'humanely' (if someone was about to premeditatively murder you in cold blood - but 'humanely', let's say a bullet to your head - would you be thinking how considerate they were of your rights, needs or feelings?)
    3) feels completey entitled (has the 'right') to do, or intentionally support, the 'humane' slaughter

    Let's substitute 'slaves' for 'animals' in your above quote:

    But if we stimulate a local economy that treats slaves the right way, without beatings, without hangings, and that will benefit our lives then we will be rewarding those slaveowners that do things the right way.

    the 'right way' indeed...

    exactly how far is your head stuck up your ...?

    watch a more detailed video on the psychopathic slaughter of other Earthlings here:

    https://www.care2.com/news/member/733929969/372045

    "We need another and a wiser [more conscious] and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals [i.e. other Earthlings]. Remote from Universal Nature and living in complicated artifice [and utterly arrogant DENIAL], human civilization surveys the 'creature' through the glass of its knowledge [i.e. profound ignornace] and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the 'animal' shall not be measured by humans. In a world far older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we will never hear. They are not brethren, they are certainly not underlings - they are other Earthlings, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendour and travail of Earth." -Henry Beston, The Outermost House
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  6. TopTop #6
    Valley Oak
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Are you vegetarian (vegan)?

    Edward


    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dragonflydreams: View Post
    HUH???

    "slaughtered humanely"???

    do you know what an oxymoron is?

    ...
    Last edited by Barry; 10-04-2007 at 03:11 PM.
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  7. TopTop #7
    dragonflydreams
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by roble: View Post
    Are you vegetarian (vegan)?

    Edward
    since the meaning of 'vegetarian' is somewhat murky let's just say that i do not knowingly eat the carcasses or by-products of murdered ('humanely' or otherwise) animals... i have occasionally been surprised in restaurants and have swallowed a few mouthfuls with bits of carcass in it that was slyly disguised as 'food' before i figured it out... i know alleged 'vegetarians' who knowingly eat fish and fowl - i guess the were taught that fish and fowl are plants...

    i do not eat honey as it is the product of enslaving bees, and they are forced to work much harder to provide their hive with food when humans are continually stealing it... try stealing honey from a hive without the protection of smoke or special suit and you will see what bees think of the theft... humanity is now paying the karmic price of this apian slavery with the current worldwise demise of bees...

    i don't eat eggs, however i have no problem with someone having free-range chickens and eating their unfertilized eggs... chickens don't attack en-mass when taking their unfertilized eggs, and i can't see any use they have for them... having chickens and eating their eggs seems to be a very symbiotic relatioship - you give them protection from predators and food scraps you can't use any more and they give you an alarm clock you don't have to wind up, plug in or buy batteries for and unfertilized eggs which they have no use for... if i had chickens living with me i don't think they would mind my taking their unfertilized eggs... somehow, i don't think having chickens for their unfertilized eggs is enslaving them - although i'm sure there are vegans who would say i have my head shoved up where the sun don't shine...

    i can't call myself vegan because:

    i do occasionally eat ice cream - always organic; and whipped cream - always organic and usually raw; and occasionally cheese - usually organic (pizza is my downfall)...

    and i do use two products made with the skin of murdered cows since i cannot find any realistic alternative - heavy-duty work gloves and work boots...

    am i a hypocrite? you betcha! i'm simply not in DENIAL of it...

    if it was possible to buy leather gloves and leather work boots made from cows that had been certified to have dropped dead from old age or disease, i would only buy those regardless how much more expensive they were... then, not only would i not be a hypocrite, i would be intelligently recycling cows' vacated vehicles (bodies)... and yes, i would be very pleased if anyone could make use of any part my vehicle when i finally vacate it...
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  8. TopTop #8
    ThePhiant
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dragonflydreams: View Post
    HUH???

    "slaughtered humanely"???

    do you know what an oxymoron is?
    how about this, for every animal killed humanly
    we butcher a human animalisticly

    Roble don't you have a teenage daughter?
    we've got to start somewhere, right?
    Last edited by Barry; 10-05-2007 at 11:10 AM.
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  9. TopTop #9
    dragonflydreams
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by ThePhiant: View Post
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dragonflydreams: View Post
    HUH???
    how about this, for every animal killed humanly
    we butcher a human animalisticly

    Roble don't you have a teenage daughter?
    we've got to start somewhere, right?
    do you eat carcass Lulu?
    Last edited by Barry; 10-05-2007 at 11:11 AM.
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  10. TopTop #10
    amalia's Avatar
    amalia
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    I'm glad that the dialogue about "humane" killing of animals has finally opened up. This is a line that the grass fed and free range meat industries are feeding us. Whole Foods also boasts humane killing in their meat department. We need to step out from this wall of denial, eerily similar to the line our government feeds us, "We do not torture."
    I suppose if we're told something again and again, we start to believe it....
    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dragonflydreams: View Post
    HUH???

    "slaughtered humanely"???

    do you know what an oxymoron is?

    can you understand that you have been totally conditioned (social conditioning) to believe it is possible to 'humanely' murder ('slaughter') another Earthling ("animal"), just as people used to be conditioned to believe it was possible to 'humanely' enslave other humans?

    and after admitting many may find your words contradictory, you add:

    "But if we stimulate a local economy that treats animals the right way, without hormones, without mad cow disease, and that will be healthy for our consumption then we will be rewarding those agricultural businesses that do things the right way."

    the "right way"???

    you, of course, mean the socially conditioned psychopathic way...

    a psychopath is one who:
    1) harms (murders, slaughters 'humanely') another intentionally without any remorse or regret (i.e. no remorse or regret for for slaughtering another 'humanely')
    2) has no consideration for the rights, needs or feelings for the one slaughtered 'humanely' (if someone was about to premeditatively murder you in cold blood - but 'humanely', let's say a bullet to your head - would you be thinking how considerate they were of your rights, needs or feelings?)
    3) feels completey entitled (has the 'right') to do, or intentionally support, the 'humane' slaughter

    Let's substitute 'slaves' for 'animals' in your above quote:

    But if we stimulate a local economy that treats slaves the right way, without beatings, without hangings, and that will benefit our lives then we will be rewarding those slaveowners that do things the right way.

    the 'right way' indeed...

    exactly how far is your head stuck up your ...?

    watch a more detailed video on the psychopathic slaughter of other Earthlings here:

    https://www.care2.com/news/member/733929969/372045

    "We need another and a wiser [more conscious] and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals [i.e. other Earthlings]. Remote from Universal Nature and living in complicated artifice [and utterly arrogant DENIAL], human civilization surveys the 'creature' through the glass of its knowledge [i.e. profound ignornace] and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the 'animal' shall not be measured by humans. In a world far older and more complete than ours they move finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we will never hear. They are not brethren, they are certainly not underlings - they are other Earthlings, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendour and travail of Earth." -Henry Beston, The Outermost House
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  11. TopTop #11
    ThePhiant
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health




    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dragonflydreams: View Post

    do you eat carcass Lulu?
    No dream boy, this I do not eat
    Last edited by Barry; 10-05-2007 at 11:11 AM.
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  12. TopTop #12
    Valley Oak
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    I tender my carcass consuming confession.

    Thing is I'm not willing to stop eating meat altogether. I might be willing to reduce my consumption of it and do what I can to also reduce the cruelty in raising and killing the animals I eat. When I saw the video that Dragonflydreams posted I witnessed some of the most grotesque scenes I had ever seen in my life. I was truly repulsed and I could not finish watching it. I probably watched about 15 to 20 minutes of it.

    Perhaps becoming a vegan vegetarian is the only answer but I have a strong hunch that there is a mellow medium that is unacceptable to both extremes (unabashed meat eaters on the one hand and vegans on the other).

    I still think that moving in the direction of less cruel treatment of animals and educating the public about this and nutritional alternatives, the contamination of meat with mad cow disease, and hormones is a good way to go for now. We need public forums such as this one to help enlighten the public.

    Edward

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by dragonflydreams: View Post
    since the meaning of 'vegetarian' is somewhat murky let's just say that i do not knowingly eat the carcasses or by-products of murdered ('humanely' or otherwise) animals... i have occasionally been surprised in restaurants and have swallowed a few mouthfuls with bits of carcass in it that was slyly disguised as 'food' before i figured it out... i know alleged 'vegetarians' who knowingly eat fish and fowl - i guess the were taught that fish and fowl are plants...

    i do not eat honey as it is the product of enslaving bees, and they are forced to work much harder to provide their hive with food when humans are continually stealing it... try stealing honey from a hive without the protection of smoke or special suit and you will see what bees think of the theft... humanity is now paying the karmic price of this apian slavery with the current worldwise demise of bees...

    i don't eat eggs, however i have no problem with someone having free-range chickens and eating their unfertilized eggs... chickens don't attack en-mass when taking their unfertilized eggs, and i can't see any use they have for them... having chickens and eating their eggs seems to be a very symbiotic relatioship - you give them protection from predators and food scraps you can't use any more and they give you an alarm clock you don't have to wind up, plug in or buy batteries for and unfertilized eggs which they have no use for... if i had chickens living with me i don't think they would mind my taking their unfertilized eggs... somehow, i don't think having chickens for their unfertilized eggs is enslaving them - although i'm sure there are vegans who would say i have my head shoved up where the sun don't shine...

    i can't call myself vegan because:

    i do occasionally eat ice cream - always organic; and whipped cream - always organic and usually raw; and occasionally cheese - usually organic (pizza is my downfall)...

    and i do use two products made with the skin of murdered cows since i cannot find any realistic alternative - heavy-duty work gloves and work boots...

    am i a hypocrite? you betcha! i'm simply not in DENIAL of it...

    if it was possible to buy leather gloves and leather work boots made from cows that had been certified to have dropped dead from old age or disease, i would only buy those regardless how much more expensive they were... then, not only would i not be a hypocrite, i would be intelligently recycling cows' vacated vehicles (bodies)... and yes, i would be very pleased if anyone could make use of any part my vehicle when i finally vacate it...
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  13. TopTop #13
    nurturetruth's Avatar
    nurturetruth
    Co-observing

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Roble and others:

    COMMUNITY VEGAN POTLUCK

    Sunday October 14th at 6:00pm
    Subud Center / Sebastopol
    234 Hutchins Avenue
    gotta bring own plate/cup/fork as it is a "waste free" event!

    this goes on monthly every 2nd Sunday of month.

    https://www.veganvoices.net

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by roble: View Post
    I tender my carcass consuming confession.

    Thing is I'm not willing to stop eating meat altogether. I might be willing to reduce my consumption of it and do what I can to also reduce the cruelty in raising and killing the animals I eat. When I saw the video that Dragonflydreams posted I witnessed some of the most grotesque scenes I had ever seen in my life. I was truly repulsed and I could not finish watching it. I probably watched about 15 to 20 minutes of it.

    Perhaps becoming a vegan vegetarian is the only answer but I have a strong hunch that there is a mellow medium that is unacceptable to both extremes (unabashed meat eaters on the one hand and vegans on the other).

    I still think that moving in the direction of less cruel treatment of animals and educating the public about this and nutritional alternatives, the contamination of meat with mad cow disease, and hormones is a good way to go for now. We need public forums such as this one to help enlighten the public.

    Edward
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  14. TopTop #14
    Neshamah
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Although the typical industrial farm is excessively cruel, death is never pleasant. (Just look at how animals kill each other in the wild.) However, death is also a passage every living being will face, so my primary concern is not so much with how the animal dies as with how it lives. There again most farms are dismal failures, but there are alternatives. This might be a question for the circumcision thread, but is it ever okay to "fix" an animal, even a house pet?

    I read some PETA brochures my freshman year and immediately became a vegetarian. This lasted about ten days. Since then I started looking to compromise. All my life I'd eaten meat probably fourteen times a week. I almost always had it with cheese, and since high school I'd been putting bacon on everything from salad to pizza to cheese steaks. I decided if I kept kosher, I'd have to keep meat and dairy separate, and I wouldn't be able to eat pigs. That alone cut my meat consumption by probably 80%. I didn't learn until later that most meat isn't kosher anyway. Fast forward to the present and I probably eat warm blooded animals less than six times a year. The only class of animal adversely affected were fish, but I only eat that three or four times a week. I don't know if consciousness or awareness matters, but mammals have a greater sense of self-awareness than birds which in turn have more self-awareness than fish. Fish and birds (and newborn infants for that matter) live moment to moment and have no concept of themselves over time.

    I have not given my diet much thought since college, so many of the assumptions on which I'm proceeding may be false, but here they are anyway:
    Most grain grown in the U.S. (is it 70%?) goes to feed cattle rather than humans. If we fed most of that directly to humans, world hunger would be significantly reduced, and we'd be killing a lot less animals because there'd be a lot fewer farm animals being born in the first place. Although most farm species would get along better without us, there would not be nearly as many individuals. From a utilitarian perspective, do we create more good by raising happy, healthy cattle and then slaughtering them if the alternative is that most of them are never born in the first place?
    I just realized that assumption has to be false. We'd have more people in the world if we never allowed anyone to live past thirty, but raising humans just to slaughter them for food and clothing, no matter how happy they are in the meantime, is surely immoral.
    Oh well, I'm still not going to be completely vegetarian.

    I still end up with the conclusion that humans are naturally omniverous. Although we should not be consuming nearly as much meat and dairy as most in European derived cultures consume, it would not be natural to give it up altogether. Maybe knowing better holds humans to a higher moral standard than bears or dogs, but I'm still not going to be completely vegetarian.

    ~ Neshamah
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  15. TopTop #15
    Dixon's Avatar
    Dixon
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Neshamah: View Post
    ...I don't know if consciousness or awareness matters, but mammals have a greater sense of self-awareness than birds which in turn have more self-awareness than fish.
    You're generalizing too broadly, Neshamah, as there are lots of exceptions. For instance, parrots are among the smartest nonhuman animals, sharper than many mammals. And octopi, which are "mere" mollusks, are smart, probably smarter than most mammals.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Neshamah: View Post
    Fish and birds (and newborn infants for that matter) live moment to moment and have no concept of themselves over time.
    Do you prefer your newborn infants baked, broiled or fricasseed? Perhaps with some fava beans and a nice chianti?

    Seriously, though, while you really haven't made your case for a radical difference in consciousness between mammals and "lower" animals, I'd still agree with you that our little planet would be LOTS better off if we all ate LOTS less meat. I'll take this as a reminder to cut down a bit more on my meat intake, but, like you, I'm addicted.

    Riding the gravy train;
    Dixon
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  16. TopTop #16
    Neshamah
    Guest

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Dixon: View Post
    You're generalizing too broadly, Neshamah, as there are lots of exceptions.
    True. I guess I was just thinking of cattle, chickens, and bony fish, though I've noticed even goldfish remember which end of the aquarium you put the food in.

    I guess fetuses and newborn infants are different from chickens because when they get older, they will have awareness of themselves over time whereas chickens never will. I personally can't eat humans because they do not have cleft hooves.

    I am sure self-awareness is not nearly as exclusive as most people like to think. I'm going to leave that question out of it entirely and fall back on "We're natural omnivores, so it is okay for at least some of us to eat animals some of the time."

    ~ Neshamah
    Last edited by Barry; 10-09-2007 at 10:56 AM.
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  17. TopTop #17
    ThePhiant
     

    Re: Animals we eat & our health

    Hey Dixon

    Quote Riding the gravy train;
    Dixon
    I know of 2 meanings of this slang vernacular
    first would be that you are now making a lot of money (you deserve it)
    the second is gay verbiage
    are you trying to tell us something?????
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