click it or ticket

[kewl]

after all these years I finally got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.
now I am a staunch disbeliever in anything restraining movements, but can see the usefulness of belts every now and again.
what bothers me, is the misinformation out there and the fact that cops have become TAX collectors instead of protectors of all that is good.
had the cop asked nicely, to put my seatbelt on, I would have done so and even kept it on too. because after all I would have given him my word of honor, but as it happened this time, I took it off as soon as he was out of sight after all I PAID for the right not to wear a seatbelt!

read the following and let me know what you think!

The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Transportation Safety Administration only estimates the number of lives saved every year by motorists wearing seat belts and motorcyclists wearing helmets. Statistics provide some startling facts:
According to the California Highway Patrol's most available data, 2001, there were 2,764 fatal automobile accidents that year. Those killed wearing seat belts numbered 1,496. The number killed not wearing a seat belt: 1,268. Of the 266,777 injury accidents that same year, the number injured wearing a seat belt: 237, 028. Those injured not wearing a seat belt: 29,749.

In the motorcycle category, there were 295 fatalities the same year. Number of motorcycle operators killed wearing a helmet: 254. Number killed not wearing a helmet: 41. Injury accidents for motorcycles numbered 8,405. Those injured wearing a helmet: 7,085. Injured not wearing a helmet: 1,320.

[smithers]

I think reading a "quote" without citation and forming an opinion is no better than forming an opinion based upon gossip.

after all these years I finally got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.
now I am a staunch disbeliever in anything restraining movements, but can see the usefulness of belts every now and again.
what bothers me, is the misinformation out there and the fact that cops have become TAX collectors instead of protectors of all that is good.
had the cop asked nicely, to put my seatbelt on, I would have done so and even kept it on too. because after all I would have given him my word of honor, but as it happened this time, I took it off as soon as he was out of sight after all I PAID for the right not to wear a seatbelt!

read the following and let me know what you think!

The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Transportation Safety Administration only estimates the number of lives saved every year by motorists wearing seat belts and motorcyclists wearing helmets. Statistics provide some startling facts:
According to the California Highway Patrol's most available data, 2001, there were 2,764 fatal automobile accidents that year. Those killed wearing seat belts numbered 1,496. The number killed not wearing a seat belt: 1,268. Of the 266,777 injury accidents that same year, the number injured wearing a seat belt: 237, 028. Those injured not wearing a seat belt: 29,749.

In the motorcycle category, there were 295 fatalities the same year. Number of motorcycle operators killed wearing a helmet: 254. Number killed not wearing a helmet: 41. Injury accidents for motorcycles numbered 8,405. Those injured wearing a helmet: 7,085. Injured not wearing a helmet: 1,320.

[Debujo]

You did pay for that right, but we all pay for the injuries you sustain.

[mykil]

I hate wearing my seat belt, but after about ten tickets and the last one costing me i think $265, I have become accustom top it.

I did read a few years back, [well a while] when the seat belt law came into affect, along with the helmet law, around the same time, that the amount of blood on hand was dangerously low due to not being taken from drivers that had signed the donor cards. I guess they were taking a lot from those particular drivers from seat belts and helmet laws!!

I also did notice that once Arnold became our fearless leader, I really did have to start wearing my seat belt, all CHP’s became republican tax collectors really fast, and it hasn’t change since!!!

[Chris Murray]

I think Darwin figured this out a while ago, but as another poster pointed out, we bear the cost of your injuries unless you have medical insurance. Government, as usual, finds it much easier to protect us from ourselves rather than from each other.
Personally I don't think the government should be wasting tax dollars and cops' time trying to force stupid people to wear seatbelts.
Ditto for motorcyclists and helmets - been there, loved the wind in my hair on one or two rare occasions, but I wore a helmet to protect myself, there was no legal requirement to wear one.

Partial solution - no ticket if you can prove full medical coverage.

after all these years I finally got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.
now I am a staunch disbeliever in anything restraining movements, but can see the usefulness of belts every now and again.
what bothers me, is the misinformation out there and the fact that cops have become TAX collectors instead of protectors of all that is good.
had the cop asked nicely, to put my seatbelt on, I would have done so and even kept it on too. because after all I would have given him my word of honor, but as it happened this time, I took it off as soon as he was out of sight after all I PAID for the right not to wear a seatbelt!

read the following and let me know what you think!

The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Transportation Safety Administration only estimates the number of lives saved every year by motorists wearing seat belts and motorcyclists wearing helmets. Statistics provide some startling facts:
According to the California Highway Patrol's most available data, 2001, there were 2,764 fatal automobile accidents that year. Those killed wearing seat belts numbered 1,496. The number killed not wearing a seat belt: 1,268. Of the 266,777 injury accidents that same year, the number injured wearing a seat belt: 237, 028. Those injured not wearing a seat belt: 29,749.

In the motorcycle category, there were 295 fatalities the same year. Number of motorcycle operators killed wearing a helmet: 254. Number killed not wearing a helmet: 41. Injury accidents for motorcycles numbered 8,405. Those injured wearing a helmet: 7,085. Injured not wearing a helmet: 1,320.

[Dixon]

Hey, Kewl--

If you think the statistics you quote establish that seatbelts don't increase safety, think again. Those statistics tell us NOTHING about the relative safety of wearing or not wearing seatbelts; all they prove is that it's possible to get injured or die while wearing setbelts, a fact which nobody denies. The question is: Do seatbelts decrease our chance of injury/death? To answer that, we'd need, in addition to the figures you quote, figures on what percentage of people wear their seatbelts. With those figures along with the ones you quote, we'd be able to calculate the chances of injury/death for seatbelted and non-seatbelted people and make a meaningful comparison. The figures you quote, by themselves, are irrelevant because they can't possibly tell us if seatbelts are safer.

The research has been done (thanks to Ralph Nader among others) and, along with crash-dummy tests, etc., has shown that seatbelted people are less likely to be injured/killed. As one of the taxpayers who would presumably be footing the huge medical bill if you got horribly injured, I call upon you to behave more responsibly by getting in the habit of buckling up. If you refuse to do so, I hope you get ticketed again and again until you change your ways.

Blessings!

Dixon

after all these years I finally got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.
now I am a staunch disbeliever in anything restraining movements, but can see the usefulness of belts every now and again.
what bothers me, is the misinformation out there and the fact that cops have become TAX collectors instead of protectors of all that is good.
had the cop asked nicely, to put my seatbelt on, I would have done so and even kept it on too. because after all I would have given him my word of honor, but as it happened this time, I took it off as soon as he was out of sight after all I PAID for the right not to wear a seatbelt!

read the following and let me know what you think!

The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Transportation Safety Administration only estimates the number of lives saved every year by motorists wearing seat belts and motorcyclists wearing helmets. Statistics provide some startling facts:
According to the California Highway Patrol's most available data, 2001, there were 2,764 fatal automobile accidents that year. Those killed wearing seat belts numbered 1,496. The number killed not wearing a seat belt: 1,268. Of the 266,777 injury accidents that same year, the number injured wearing a seat belt: 237, 028. Those injured not wearing a seat belt: 29,749.

In the motorcycle category, there were 295 fatalities the same year. Number of motorcycle operators killed wearing a helmet: 254. Number killed not wearing a helmet: 41. Injury accidents for motorcycles numbered 8,405. Those injured wearing a helmet: 7,085. Injured not wearing a helmet: 1,320.

[kewl]

I think reading a "quote" without citation and forming an opinion is no better than forming an opinion based upon gossip.

I googled seatbelts+accidents and this is what came up
the numbers come from the CHP as is stated if you have anything to dispute it, please let us all know

[kewl]

You did pay for that right, but we all pay for the injuries you sustain.

I have medical insurance, and unless you are offering to pay for it, it doesn't cost you a penny.

now you DO pay for people who wear seatbelts but don't have insurance or medical coverage and that includes teenagers, elderly, illegals, drunks, druggies and foreigners.

[kewl]

I don't know how much the ticket is going to be, the cop wouldn't tell me
but $265 seems excessive to me

I hate wearing my seat belt, but after about ten tickets and the last one costing me i think $265, I have become accustom top it.

I did read a few years back, [well a while] when the seat belt law came into affect, along with the helmet law, around the same time, that the amount of blood on hand was dangerously low due to not being taken from drivers that had signed the donor cards. I guess they were taking a lot from those particular drivers from seat belts and helmet laws!!

I also did notice that once Arnold became our fearless leader, I really did have to start wearing my seat belt, all CHP’s became republican tax collectors really fast, and it hasn’t change since!!!

[kewl]

Dixon, I agree that the statistics don't prove anything, one way or the other, but that was exactly my point!
like I said before you people are mixing up 2 different issues
no insurance versus no seat belt

"now you DO pay for people who wear seatbelts but don't have insurance or medical coverage and that includes teenagers, elderly, illegals, drunks, druggies and foreigners."

you call upon me to buckle up, but not to drive safe?
are people with seatbelts better drivers?
can you tell what the likely hood is that I get in a accident tomorow and that those seatbelts will protect me?
can you guaranty that I will ever be in an accident?

Hey, Kewl--

If you think the statistics you quote establish that seatbelts don't increase safety, think again. Those statistics tell us NOTHING about the relative safety of wearing or not wearing seatbelts; all they prove is that it's possible to get injured or die while wearing setbelts, a fact which nobody denies. The question is: Do seatbelts decrease our chance of injury/death? To answer that, we'd need, in addition to the figures you quote, figures on what percentage of people wear their seatbelts. With those figures along with the ones you quote, we'd be able to calculate the chances of injury/death for seatbelted and non-seatbelted people and make a meaningful comparison. The figures you quote, by themselves, are irrelevant because they can't possibly tell us if seatbelts are safer.

The research has been done (thanks to Ralph Nader among others) and, along with crash-dummy tests, etc., has shown that seatbelted people are less likely to be injured/killed. As one of the taxpayers who would presumably be footing the huge medical bill if you got horribly injured, I call upon you to behave more responsibly by getting in the habit of buckling up. If you refuse to do so, I hope you get ticketed again and again until you change your ways.

Blessings!

Dixon

[smithers]

I wasn't disputing what you said. I was refusing to state an opinion because you did not provide a link to your source.

I googled seatbelts+accidents and this is what came up
the numbers come from the CHP as is stated if you have anything to dispute it, please let us all know

["Mad" Miles]

Here's my take Girls and Boys,

In my late teens and into my early twenties, I didn't always wear my seatbelt, and this was in the days before the mandatory shoulder strap. My thought was, "Better to be dead than a paraplegic, or gruesomely scarred. Live Fast, Die Young and Leave A Beautiful Corpse!"

For those of you who've read my output since last fall, you know from my "Driving Peeves" piece that I learned to drive in Northern Alabama from friends inspired by Burt Reynolds's Moonshine Runner movies ("Gator", etc.) and that I drove with "alacrity" for many, many years.

Well, the problem with speeding, aside from the danger to oneself and others (I always tried to minimize the danger to others and only accept risk for myself) is that one racks up a bunch of speeding tickets. This gets expensive (fines and insurance) and eventually, unless your financial means are substantial, unlike mine, you see the light and give it up. Or at least you moderate it more, having learned that you don't have anything to prove and why not take it easy.

Another aspect of getting speeding tickets is that you periodically get to go to Traffic School. This in the days before it could be done online.

One statistic, that sank in after a while, was: Most traffic accidents happen at a speed under 30 miles per hour and within a five mile radius of home.

(I suck at remembering factual details, like statistics, so this is my paraphrase of the info. Please don't ask me for a source. It would be, "Several Traffic School instructors in Orange County, CA, circa 1976-1984.")

THIRTY Miles Per Hour or less.

And my several fender benders over the last thirty-four years, both my fault and the fault of others, bear this out. They all happened at low speeds, with one exception when a drunk woman plowed into the back of my car while I was stopped at a light.

So really, the choice between belt and shoulder strap, and none, is not Death vs. Paraplegia. It's more likely: Walking away unscathed vs. Painful reconstructive face surgery from hitting the windshield with my beautiful mug!

That was an easy choice to make.

I Click It.

The overbearing imposition of State Power by an unfeeling and unthinking bureaucratic system of control and surveillance, which I generally am not too thrilled with, is OK by me in this instance.

Yeah, seat belts and shoulder straps restrict my freedom of movement while driving. So do head rests. (Heard of whiplash spinal injuries?) So do: side panels, roof construction with internal struts in case of a roll, bumpers when parking.

But they've all been proven useful as safety devices in crash studies. And I've involuntarily personally tested all of them but the roll bar! Many were resisted by the car manufacturers as added frivolous expense.

So you have to ask yourself. Do you feel Lucky? So do you Punk?!

(Hah, hah, couldn't resist!)

Good Luck Seat Belt Anars in your fight against The Man, I pick and choose my fights, always have, and in this case it just doesn't seem productive, plus it goes against my perceived, immediate self interest.

Happy Motoring!

"Mad" Miles


:giwhchr: :fist:

[mykil]

Hey; actually the first seat beat ticket is 25 that they tell you about then another 20 for some stupid bookkeepers. Then if your lucky the second and so on are still that amount, til one day some stupid clerk looks up your mane and sees you have had more than one and ands a huge friggin bill so you don’t do it any more. I have a friend that is wallpapering his bedroom with them, he makes allot more money than I do and can afford it, and I really think he has over thirty thus far! I think they sit and wait for him to drive out of his drive.

I do wear one now, you do get used to the restrainment, being free is alwayz a good feeling though! Getting out of them is pretty though these dayz; the last one I did get out of I passed the guy on river road doing around seventy, a little faster than I should have been going. About three minutes latter I saw him coming up on me extremely fast, I asked him how fast he was going to caught up with me to protect me from my own stupidity? He would not tell me. I asked him how he could justify going will over a hundred miles an hour, how driving like that to give me a seat belt ticket was protecting and serving the public the was babbling on about. “I am only here to protect you and the others on the road way sir”! Was really going about 120 protecting me or anyone else on the road way what so ever? He walked away and got in his car a sped away! I didn’t get his name or his badge, for once in my life I really felt like I needed to complain. So with that in mind, wearing your seat belt does protect others, from the stupidity on the CHP and any other law enforcement that wants to go really really fast just to make sure you are on the right track with the legal system at anyone’s cost!

[kewl]

what I got out of your writing, is that you were hell on wheels.
In my twenty+ years of driving, I have never gotten a ticket for speeding, never driven reckless, never driven while intoxicated, and never gotten into an accident.

the alarmist tone that I detect in all of the responses is that it is only a matter of time before I or anybody else gets into a car accident.
it appears that everybody here agrees that if you drive a car, you WILL get into an accident with disastrous results, especially if you don't wear seat belts.

I for once respectfully disagree,
even though I sometimes wear seatbelts, sometimes I don't
sometimes i will walk on wet and slippery sidewalks, sometimes I will climb ladders, sometimes i use very sharp knives, sometimes I will use a chainsaw and so on and on.
wearing seat belts will only protect you from getting an occasional ticket.
and for those disbelievers, seat belts have also caused the death of people, while their passengers escaped without a scratch after being thrown out of the car rather than being trapped

Here's my take Girls and Boys,

In my late teens and into my early twenties, I didn't always wear my seatbelt, and this was in the days before the mandatory shoulder strap. My thought was, "Better to be dead than a paraplegic, or gruesomely scarred. Live Fast, Die Young and Leave A Beautiful Corpse!" ...

[Dixon]

I have medical insurance, and unless you are offering to pay for it, it doesn't cost you a penny.

Kewl, it does cost the insurance ratepayers. There's no honest way around this: if you drive irresponsibly (which includes driving without a seatbelt), you increase the chance that someone else, whether taxpayers or insurance ratepayers, will pay the price for your irresponsibility.

now you DO pay for people who wear seatbelts but don't have insurance or medical coverage and that includes teenagers, elderly, illegals, drunks, druggies and foreigners.

That's right, and that means that they should all wear their seatbelts in order to decrease the chance that we'll have to pay, right, Kewl?

Dixon

[kewl]

dixon, you seem to have a little disconnect,
even if all the teenagers, elderly, illegals, drunks, druggies and foreigners drive with their seat belts on, it doesn't make one iota of a difference for the rest of us if they are irresponsible drivers!
if they don't have insurance but their seatbelt on, it is still gonna cost you, but not the other way around.

Kewl, it does cost the insurance ratepayers. There's no honest way around this: if you drive irresponsibly (which includes driving without a seatbelt), you increase the chance that someone else, whether taxpayers or insurance ratepayers, will pay the price for your irresponsibility.



That's right, and that means that they should all wear their seatbelts in order to decrease the chance that we'll have to pay, right, Kewl?

Dixon

[alanora]

I have been rear ended at 50mph while waiting for traffic to finish in order to turn onto the summer bridge in Guerneville. I felt the belt was primarily what held me in the seat, even when the seat broke. I did have some very sore ribs for a time. I am a habitual seat belt wearer and would like to comment that as such it requires no thought. Once recently, after dealing with electric gates and such, I had been in and out many times and forgotten to buckle-up. It felt really strange tho and I did not get very far til the realization hit. It may be the " buckleup for safety" little jingle that was around when I was a child in nyc. Perhaps it was working as an rn in an er for a time, or unconcious folks in intensive care and their weeping relatives?! During that time I also began to see some police as almost human despite earlier training, tho I still sort of freeze when chp appears in my rear-view. Any one could tell you that is not the best move, but I digress. Was any one else there back then who remembers the litter campaign with "Phil De Basket" around the same time? We used to stand in the wheel wells behind the front seat. Here's imagining that Mykil is not on the road at the same time that I am and that someone else taught his children to drive.

[Dixon]

dixon, you seem to have a little disconnect,
even if all the teenagers, elderly, illegals, drunks, druggies and foreigners drive with their seat belts on, it doesn't make one iota of a difference for the rest of us if they are irresponsible drivers!
if they don't have insurance but their seatbelt on, it is still gonna cost you, but not the other way around.

Kewl, it has been suggested to me that you are a troll, and indeed you're smelling more and more like one. It's hard to imagine that you could be so stupid or so confused that your consistently obfuscatory responses could be made honestly in good faith. Again and again you muddy the waters by ignoring or not "getting" perfectly clear and reasonable arguments, focusing on irrelevancies, and inferring ridiculous implications in others' words when in fact those implications are not there. Thus, I will no longer waste my time giving you your sick thrills by trying to reason with you.

My advice to everyone regarding this "Kewl" person: Please don't feed the troll!

Kewl, if you would like us to think you're arguing honestly in good faith, you can start by stepping out from behind your screen of anonymity and letting us all know who you really are.

Dixon

[kewl]

Dixon

I am not quite sure what's getting you so upset, nor do I know what "ridiculous implications" you are referring to.
but from what I have been told, you have a history of trying to intimidate people with a barrage of words.
since you are asking for some clarity, all I have said is that there is no evidence that wearing a seatbelt makes the roads safer, produces less fatalities, or less injuries
yes, it prevents some injuries under certain circumstances, but it also aggravates some under different circumstances.
if you have some information to dispute this, let us hear it
otherwise stop your rehashing of CHP propaganda, that has no basis in facts!

peace brother
Kewl

Kewl, it has been suggested to me that you are a troll, and indeed you're smelling more and more like one. It's hard to imagine that you could be so stupid or so confused that your consistently obfuscatory responses could be made honestly in good faith. Again and again you muddy the waters by ignoring or not "getting" perfectly clear and reasonable arguments, focusing on irrelevancies, and inferring ridiculous implications in others' words when in fact those implications are not there. Thus, I will no longer waste my time giving you your sick thrills by trying to reason with you.

My advice to everyone regarding this "Kewl" person: Please don't feed the troll!

Kewl, if you would like us to think you're arguing honestly in good faith, you can start by stepping out from behind your screen of anonymity and letting us all know who you really are.

Dixon

[mykil]

LMAO!! Tacitus You are way too funny, first of all he was the one going really about 120 to catch up with me just to give me a stupid seat belt ticket, don’t you think that is a little bit beyond public safety? Way irresponsible beyond my belief, seventy is the norm on that stretch of road going toward Rosa from Forestville. Second, I really have way too many dates at this moment in time, but I can alwayz use one more, if you wanna wait in line BABY!!!

Mykil, a devil of a really cute guy, writes: "the last one I did get out of I passed the guy on river road doing around seventy, a little faster than I should have been going."

You and your ilk are the reason River Road is called Blood Alley. Way too many people and animals have been killed by speeders like yourself on this road. And you had the nerve to complain about the CHP or sheriff?! I'm totally blown away by your insensitivity to others. No wonder you don't get dates.

Please, Mykil. Buck up, buckle up and drive carefully. Before you kill someone or yourself.

Dian

[mykil]

BTW; unlike most of you here, I myself have NEVER had a speeding ticket or a moving violation. I have had about thirty or forty ticket for seat belts or registration. Also I have never been in an accident, on the roadway that is. I have totaled a few jeeps off-roading. I would be interested how many can say this. Please post.

[ThePhiant]

Yeah Kewl, stop messing with our Deities!
if you don't like to be restrained, by anything
how do you think it feels to walk around with an IV in your arm?
if you pull it out, they might strap you to the bed!

Kewl, it has been suggested to me that you are a troll, and indeed you're smelling more and more like one. It's hard to imagine that you could be so stupid or so confused that your consistently obfuscatory responses could be made honestly in good faith. Again and again you muddy the waters by ignoring or not "getting" perfectly clear and reasonable arguments, focusing on irrelevancies, and inferring ridiculous implications in others' words when in fact those implications are not there. Thus, I will no longer waste my time giving you your sick thrills by trying to reason with you.

My advice to everyone regarding this "Kewl" person: Please don't feed the troll!

Kewl, if you would like us to think you're arguing honestly in good faith, you can start by stepping out from behind your screen of anonymity and letting us all know who you really are.

Dixon

[Carl]

[QUOTE=kewl;30957]after all these years I finally got a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt.
now I am a staunch disbeliever in anything restraining movements, but can see the usefulness of belts every now and again.
what bothers me, is the misinformation out there and the fact that cops have become TAX collectors instead of protectors of all that is good.
had the cop asked nicely, to put my seatbelt on, I would have done so and even kept it on too. because after all I would have given him my word of honor, but as it happened this time, I took it off as soon as he was out of sight after all I PAID for the right not to wear a seatbelt!

Kewl,
I agree that the new seat belt law as it is, is yet another way for the "central authority" to have access to control over the common person, and to have an excuse for stopping ANYONE at anytime. Nevertheless, wearing a seatbelt is so obviously important, there can be no argument against it. Except, on buses, hmmm, children on buses, why don't they have to wear belts? Are those special brakes that good? Well, maybe there can be an argument against the necessity of seatbelts.

So your point is, the police should only threaten people with a ticket, and not give them a citation, and in this manner get them to promise to obey the law. Then we can trust the citizen's word of honor to do something they are already supposed to be doing. Your suggestion flies in the face of reason. I agree that the presence of police does discourage people from violating some laws, and there should be more highway patrol, not less. But other violations are way more important to me than the seatbelt crime, as it is a non-invasive thing. Egregious examples are running red lights, refusing to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, cutting other drivers off, all of which I witness every time I drive from Santa Rosa to Sebastopol. More police, not more extreme fines, is the way to cure it. But the cost is prohibitive, that money is going to more important places... ummm, like where? Why do the police have to hold fundraisers to take care of their own? Where is our money going? To me, that is a better question. Why do we not have a fully-respected professional police and peace-keeping force?

Not to insult you, Kewl, but I think I have raised other questions that are far more important than your personal right to drive without a seatbelt on.

[kewl]

Carl,

yeah you raise some interesting points,(but claiming that one is more important than another isn't one of them, LOL)
I had forgotten about the schoolbusses!
why don't we hear from somebody up in arms that we allow kids to be transported without restraints, can you imagine a 7 year old kid sliding from the back of the bus al the way to the front smack-bam against the windshield after an emrgency stop going downhill!!!
my argument was more that if cops would talk to people, they would get more respect and probably better results. money is just an impersonal and unsatisfying transaction.

this is my all time, blowsmymind, winner.
I am going 70 MPH in the slow lane, and I am being passed on the right!!

Kewl


Kewl,
I agree that the new seat belt law as it is, is yet another way for the "central authority" to have access to control over the common person, and to have an excuse for stopping ANYONE at anytime. Nevertheless, wearing a seatbelt is so obviously important, there can be no argument against it. Except, on buses, hmmm, children on buses, why don't they have to wear belts? Are those special brakes that good? Well, maybe there can be an argument against the necessity of seatbelts.

So your point is, the police should only threaten people with a ticket, and not give them a citation, and in this manner get them to promise to obey the law. Then we can trust the citizen's word of honor to do something they are already supposed to be doing. Your suggestion flies in the face of reason. I agree that the presence of police does discourage people from violating some laws, and there should be more highway patrol, not less. But other violations are way more important to me than the seatbelt crime, as it is a non-invasive thing. Egregious examples are running red lights, refusing to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, cutting other drivers off, all of which I witness every time I drive from Santa Rosa to Sebastopol. More police, not more extreme fines, is the way to cure it. But the cost is prohibitive, that money is going to more important places... ummm, like where? Why do the police have to hold fundraisers to take care of their own? Where is our money going? To me, that is a better question. Why do we not have a fully-respected professional police and peace-keeping force?

Not to insult you, Kewl, but I think I have raised other questions that are far more important than your personal right to drive without a seatbelt on.[/quote]

[kewl]

Mykil

did you ask that cop if he was wearing his seatbelt?
I think they are exempt because they are above the law.

Kewl

Hey; actually the first seat beat ticket is 25 that they tell you about then another 20 for some stupid bookkeepers. Then if your lucky the second and so on are still that amount, til one day some stupid clerk looks up your mane and sees you have had more than one and ands a huge friggin bill so you don’t do it any more. I have a friend that is wallpapering his bedroom with them, he makes allot more money than I do and can afford it, and I really think he has over thirty thus far! I think they sit and wait for him to drive out of his drive.

I do wear one now, you do get used to the restrainment, being free is alwayz a good feeling though! Getting out of them is pretty though these dayz; the last one I did get out of I passed the guy on river road doing around seventy, a little faster than I should have been going. About three minutes latter I saw him coming up on me extremely fast, I asked him how fast he was going to caught up with me to protect me from my own stupidity? He would not tell me. I asked him how he could justify going will over a hundred miles an hour, how driving like that to give me a seat belt ticket was protecting and serving the public the was babbling on about. “I am only here to protect you and the others on the road way sir”! Was really going about 120 protecting me or anyone else on the road way what so ever? He walked away and got in his car a sped away! I didn’t get his name or his badge, for once in my life I really felt like I needed to complain. So with that in mind, wearing your seat belt does protect others, from the stupidity on the CHP and any other law enforcement that wants to go really really fast just to make sure you are on the right track with the legal system at anyone’s cost!

[nurturetruth]

Everyone who posted on this thread has raised some good questions and have expressed some interesting thoughts.

However, I have and will always choose to remain pro-choice on most issues as "choice is the magic of freedom".
even with this issue.

Regardless of WHO chooses to pay for my healthcare ( I have friends who are sovereign who choose NOT to pay taxes...Freedom Law School),
I am grateful I chose to love myself enough to get health care.
(this nation needs better health care options..can't wait for michael moore's , SICKO.)

I also made the CHOICE of asking my Doctor to write me a note excusing me of being mandated to wear a seat belt. My doctor laughed when I told him I needed this note...but he wrote it for me anyway due to my medical condition.

So far, haven't needed to use Doctors note. Hopefully ,won't have to. I will call city hall and the police tomorrow and see if the Doctors note holds up . Medical vs legal... hmmmm

In the meantime, I will just continue to choose to make it LOOK LIKE my seatbelt is on. and be extra aware /mindful when i drive. (no cell phone/head set distraction while driving..do they give out tickets for this?)


P.S...
Mad Miles.. I learned how to drive in north central alabama!! I can recall when the "peace officers" would first give out warnings for not wearing seat belts and then a citation/ticket the 2nd time around..which seems more reasonable.

those were the days....

[bird]

i know of two beautiful young folks who were recently both killed in calistoga....they were not wearing their seatbelts at the time, and the investigators of the accident stated that if these kids had been wearing their belts at the time.....well.....they'd most likely both still be alive......

[Melodymama]

What is all the fuss? Do we not have more complicated and serious problems? And when we are not attending to them, do we not have some smiling and laughing and loving to do? I am impressed by how much response there is to this. I have used one so much it requires no thought. If for no other reason, we are all role models for the children who watch us. Songbird

[kewl]

drumgirl,

it is not clear to me if you knew these people personally, but it is always sad and lifechanging to lose someone
if you are talking about the same people that i know of, well then there is a little bit more to the story. as far as I know there was drinking and reckless driving involved. so was it the seat belts or did the cause start some where else.........

peace
Kewl

i know of two beautiful young folks who were recently both killed in calistoga....they were not wearing their seatbelts at the time, and the investigators of the accident stated that if these kids had been wearing their belts at the time.....well.....they'd most likely both still be alive......

[Graton Fire]

I have been working in Emergency Services for over 20 years and have personally seen the pre and post-seatbelt law impact. People walk away from crashes that they never would have previously. There are plenty of myths and 3rd party stories about living after being thrown clear of an accident... I have never seen someone live after being thrown from a car, EVER. I am sure it is possible, just not probable.

Seat belt laws have been in place long before the Republicans were running this country or state. I believe Clinton started the federal push for all states to adopt seatbelt laws or lose highway funding dollars (not that I agree with blackmail, but that's another subject). CHP and most law enforcement agencies allow for a grace period for new laws, where they provide a verbal warning only. For a very long time, CHP couldn't pull you over for no seatbelt... there had to be another reason. This has changed with the NATIONAL push by DOT to wear them.

Lawmakers use uninsured as the biggest reason for helmet and seatbelt laws, no question. It costs millions to care for these people. I agree, if you have insurance and want to go kill yourself... that's your choice. Unfortunately, laws can only be applied on the whole, not just the uninsured. I might also suggest that, even with insurance, accidents raise premiums with million dollar hospital costs due to major injuries. In addition, what about children... should parents get to choose if they were seatbelts or ride in a carseat? I have watched children die needlessly prior to the requirement of carseats... nothing affects Fire/Police/Ambulance people more than dead kids.

Okay, let's talk about stats... according to the CHP and CA Dept of Finance from 1994-2003 in Sonoma County.

Fatalities per 15,000 population- 2.2 to 1.8
Injuries per 15,000 population- 157 to 127

Seatbelt use has been linked by numerous reports for this decline in deaths and injuries. It has reached 80 percent nationwide and roadway fatalities are at a 30-year low (US DOT). Is it possible as someone posted that the number injuries and fatalities are roughly the same? Sure. However, your odds are being injured without a seatbelt are significantly higher as only 20% of drivers don't wear them.

Bottom line... please, please, please wear your seatbelt. Ask any firefighter, EMT or Paramedic about their experience with seatbelts... better yet- look for one not wearing his/hers... not going to find it.

There are much easier ways to meet your local firefighters than not wearing your seatbelt during an accident :-)

Bill Bullard, Deputy Chief
Graton Fire Protection District

3205 Ross Road, P.O. Box A
Graton, CA 95444

mailto:[email protected]
https://www.gratonfire.com
707-823-5515 ext. 3
707-823-7251 fax