Illegal Immigrants are Satan's Minions

[Tars]

This article from the Daily Herald - "Central Utah's Newspaper"

Utah Republicans try to clarify their opinion on illegal workers.

Article - by Caleb Warnock

"Utah County Republicans ended their convention on Saturday by debating Satan's influence on illegal immigrants.The group was unable to take official action because not enough members stuck around long enough to vote, despite the pleadings of party officials. The convention was held at Canyon View Junior High School.
Don Larsen, chairman of legislative District 65 for the Utah County Republican Party, had submitted a resolution warning that Satan's minions want to eliminate national borders and do away with sovereignty.
In a speech at the convention, Larsen told those gathered that illegal immigrants "hate American people" and "are determined to destroy this country, and there is nothing they won't do."

(image added)

"Illegal aliens are in control of the media, and working in tandem with Democrats, are trying to "destroy Christian America" and replace it with "a godless new world order -- and that is not extremism, that is fact," Larsen said.
At the end of his speech, Larsen began to cry, saying illegal immigrants were trying to bring about the destruction of the U.S. "by self invasion."
Republican officials then allowed speakers to defend and refute the resolution. One speaker, who was identified as "Joe," said illegal immigrants were Marxist and under the influence of the devil. Another, who declined to give her name to the Daily Herald, said illegal immigrants should not be allowed because "they are not going to become Republicans and stop flying the flag upside down. ... If they want to be Americans, they should learn to speak English and fly their flag like we do."
Senator Howard Stephenson, R-Draper, spoke against the resolution, saying Larsen, whom he called a "true patriot and a close friend," was embarrassing the Republican Party.
"I agree with 95 percent of this resolution but it has some language that is divisive and not inspiring other people to its vision," he said. "This only gives fodder to the liberal media to give negative attention to the Republican Party."
Joel Wright, a member of the Cedar Hills City Council, was booed as he opposed the resolution.
"This might be the most divisive issue in the Republican Party," he said. "I support President Bush but he needs to support this issue harder."
When Wright said "the economic benefit (of illegal immigration) outweighs the downside" he was jeered. He warned that the Republican Party of California had "killed themselves" by taking a hostile stance against illegal aliens.
He also said the LDS Church has studied the issue and tried to determine whether illegal aliens could be given temple recommends and allowed to serve missions but "gave up" because the issue was too complex. He ended by saying "President Bush needs to fix this now" and was booed again.
Larsen was allowed to finish the debate with a one-minute speech.
"If the Democrats take over the country, we will be dead, and we will have abortion and partial-birth abortion and the Republican Party will go into extinction," he said. "Nancy Pelosi and the ACLU would oppose this (resolution)."
A member of the audience moved that the convention suspend its rules to allow the "objectionable part" of Larsen's resolution to be stricken, retaining only the final paragraphs of the resolution, which condemn illegal immigration. Eventually party officials counted all delegates in attendance, only to discover that, with 299, they were about 30 short of a quorum and could take no action.
"I did ask people to stay so we could have this discussion," said Senator Curt Bramble, R-Provo, who chaired the convention. Bramble had earlier asked those gathered not to thwart a discussion on the resolution, saying it would be "good for the party."
In other business, those gathered voted against removing some of the party's leadership.
Letters supporting the re-election of party chairwoman Marian Monnahan and secretary Susan Bramble were mailed in envelopes bearing the party's return address, causing delegate Russell Sias to demand they be removed from office. A spokesperson for Alexander's Print Advantage, which handled the mailing, spoke at the convention, saying employees had mistaken put the address on the envelopes and the company took full responsibility for the snafu.
In a speech, Enid Greene, state Republican Party chair, announced to applause that she will remarry in a few months. Greene's first marriage came to an infamous end during her tenure in the U.S. House of Representatives when her husband, Joe Waldholtz, who was her campaign manager, was charged with embezzling. He eventually pled guilty to campaign fraud and other charges.
Greene said she was disappointed in BYU professors who protested Dick Cheney's visit to campus, calling them "self-appointed intellectuals."
"I'm not calling for BYU to fire them but if no one signs up for their classes ..." she said. "If they say the Vice President doesn't have anything to say we want to hear, I'm not interested in having my daughter learn from them."
All of the speakers praised those gathered. Lt. Governor Gary Herbert said Utah County Republicans are "guided by correct principles" and are the "best of the best" of the Republican Party.
Bramble assailed those who would called the local Republican Party "broken," saying the party was accountable and accomplishing good work, including the approval of school vouchers and granting UVSC university status.
Congressman Chris Cannon and Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff both received a standing ovation from some members of the audience. Cannon said Democrats have just as many corrupt party members as the Republicans but the media does not report Democratic ethics violations.
Shurtleff said that while Americans are divided on the war in Iraq, Salt Lake Mayor Rocky Anderson should not refer to President Bush as a war criminal."

["Mad" Miles]

Tars et al,

On the article, Whatever. On the fake Driver's License, Perpetuating Racist Stereotypes is not funny, it's sick, twisted and RACIST!

"Mad" Miles

[Tars]

On the fake Driver's License, Perpetuating Racist Stereotypes is not funny, it's sick, twisted and RACIST!

Yeah it is. I didn't intend it to be humorous - thanks for the vote of unconfidence. It illustrates the same moronic state of mind as the one infesting the Utah County Republicans. I hope both the article and the graphic pisses a lot of people off.

"Whatever"? Sad.

["Mad" Miles]

"[Tars] Yeah it is. I didn't intend it to be humorous - thanks for the vote of unconfidence. It illustrates the same moronic state of mind as the one infesting the Utah County Republicans. I hope both the article and the graphic pisses a lot of people off."

Fighting Racism by perpetuating, sharing, communicating Racist imagery and text (I'm referring to the text on the faux Driver's License) is not my idea of an effective approach. Ever heard of the "imitative fallacy"? That's the idea that to communicate, let's say boredom, one tries to bore the audience. Or if the goal is to motivate someone to fight some evil, that it is effective to piss them off.

Communicating with us about Racism, by using Racism, without any other commentary about the image that you're sharing, is that your idea of effective "messaging" designed to motivate us to be anti-Racist?

Because it isn't in my book and I've been organizing and fighting against Racism and many other regularly perpetuated human evils for some thirty-two years.

It reminds me of the time when an ally of mine in the anti-apartheid divestment movement at UCI in the spring of '78 started riffing in the guerilla theater skit I'd arranged for the end of our rally before sitting in at the university administration building. Instead of railing against the evils of apartheid and exhorting the audience to join us, he started insulting the audience for their complacency and responsibility for apartheid. His message may have had some connection to reality, but it was the wrong thing to say when trying to invite people to join us in our protest. Months of organizing were nearly ruined in just a few moments of venting.


"'Whatever'? Sad."

Sending us an article about how racist some people in Utah are.... This is news?

One reason I don't send most of the political posts that I regularly forward to the local political lists that I moderate to Waccobb, is that from my experience on this list/board, people are much more concerned with flacking and buying "stuff", or animal rescue, or pet care, or cheap housing (in SonomaCo?!), etc. Political event announcements get low readership, at least so far as can be determined by the online hits listed in the menu lines.

So since forwarding emails to waccobb is more onerous* than sending them to my yahoogroups lists (dansc, gjdanscinfo, sonomaculture, laboractionsonomacounty, nosprayactionalert, nosprayactiondiscuss, uacnbay and lists that I don't moderate but use, nionsc, northbaygreensdiscuss, sonomagreensdiscuss, etc.) I tend not to send more than the minimal and most urgent, local and crucial political announcements here.

* I do enough copy/pasting as it is and an hour to two a day on political email forwarding is enough, I don't need to add another half hour to an hour putting stuff on this board. Plus I am verbose enough here as it is and I wouldn't want to overstay my welcome! (Sic.)

Why do I mention this in a debate about effective anti-racist communication? To establish my bona fides as an activist opposed to Racism and to point out that in spite of my verbosity on this board, what I write here, or forward here, is but a small part of my daily effort to share important political information with like-minded people. The goal being to enhance our organizing and ACTIONS IN THE WORLD in the fight for Social, Economic and Environmental Justice.

Someone recently accused me of "pontificating" from my keyboard. A fair cop, Officer! (Although, as an anti-authoritarian, it rankles a tiny bit to be compared to the Pope. On the other hand as someone with a healthy ego, it also comes off as an unintentional compliment!)

What I write on waccobb and what I forward to local political announcement and organizing lists is just a part of how I try to act in the name of fairness, justice, equality.

So, Tars, you don't know me. Keep your sweeping, insulting judgements about my personality to yourself. At least until you meet me and we work together on something designed to actually address a problem that we want to try to solve.

As for being cognizent of Racism ...

(I did attend eighth through twelfth grade in Huntsville Alabama from 1969 to 1974, the entire time as a conscious anti-racist, so...)

I now spend forty hours a week at San Quentin State Prison, about twenty percent of that time in a cell block on a tier where my students are "housed". Every single "house" is racially segregated, Native Americans with Native Americans, Asians with Asians, Latinos with Latinos, Blacks with Blacks, Whites with Whites.

(No order of precedence just used is intended to communicate any superiority or inferiority in the differences between these groups.)

There the Racism of our society is not just palpable, it is manifest and punch you in the nose obvious.

There's a recent court decision that requires this segregation to end, the bureaucracy of the corrections system hasn't gotten around to acting upon it. Every resident expert predicts an increase in violence when it does start to happen. I'm hoping they're wrong, but they are the experts.

If you want to fight Racism, start in your own backyard. There's plenty of it here in the North Bay, even in enlightened West County. (Sic.) Just look at the discussions of undocumented workers and comments about the Graton Day Labor Center on this board and in the PD.

Pushing a nasty image in our face, telling us the rednecks in the rural west are, well, rednecks. What was it you were trying to accomplish again?


Hoka Hey!

(pace Tecumseh. Great namesake. If only he'd gotten the cooperaton from the tribal hierarchies that he was seeking, we might be living in a very, very different world.

On the other hand, technology is certainly one major factor in the replacement [yes, this is a euphemism for genocide!] of societal systems by other more materially powerful societal systems.

That is not an excuse, nor a justification, just a gesture towards an all too simplistic and reductionistic attempt at explanation/understanding.

And Tecumseh, I read, admired and applauded your debunking of the "wanna be" cultural looting of Indian/Native American spirituality. I didn't think you overly angry or disrespectful in the least.

Have you ever noticed that bullies blame their victims for their actions? "I had to do it, they were threatening me!" This after doing some violent (emotional and/or physical) thing to someone(s) much weaker than themselves. Someone who was in no way threatening or aggressing upon the perp / bully.


And Sonoma Mark! Keep up the good fight for "Reason"! We may never fully agree Brother, but I know an ally when I read from one!!!)

"Mad" Miles


(After the first full night of sleep since last Saturday evening, and with a little time on my hands since Sunday. If you didn't make Herdeljezi / Roma Festival last Saturday, there's always next year.

And tomorrow night? The Blasters at Last Day!!!!!

Dave Alvin miay no longer be in the band, and he's one of our best songwriter/performers working in the last few decades, but brother Phill Alvin is still heading the Boys from Downey/City of Industry and channeling Gene, Buddy, and the other Rockabilly greats!

The Buckshot Boys open, led by my English student in the Spring of '03 Cassidy Crowell. He's inspired by "The Man in Black". If you Rock, you'll be there!

Finally, as for "Miles on Movies" I've seen "Pathfinder" and "Hot Fuzz" in the last four weeks or so, [work, watta ya gonna do?] and I hope to see "Black Box" today. I intend to write about all three ASAP. Energy level, more pressing commitments and the need to catch up on my news junkie habit not withstanding.)

:fist:

[Sunnyboy]

That's what the Native Americans said about the white folks - including Mormons - who were the first "illegal immigrants" on this continent. Maybe there were no written laws against Manifest Destiny, but European presence in the Americas over the past 500 years has certainly been illegal, according to the Laws of Common Decency.

[Tars]

To "Mad" Miles:
I definitely don't agree with your idea that one shouldn't post examples of racism because it perpetuates racism. The only other option is to ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. Should the Jews, or the rest of us for that matter, not look at Nazi propaganda, because it will only propagate racism against the Jews? Not. Same thing applies to this thread.

The point of putting the Utah post, and the noxious "joke" Cal drivers license here, was to point out that the issue about illegal latino workers is, at its fundamental level, a mostly-latent racist attitude by many non-latino Americans. That latent racism I believe has been included in posts on WaccoBB in another thread, by no doubt decent people, who may have fallen for racial stereotypes, that latinos are criminals, disease carriers, disrespectful slobs who spit on our sidewalks, etc.

I skimmed thru your lengthy resume that you posted above. I'm guessing it's intended to illustrate why you can lecture me about racism? Maybe not, I'm not sure. What I saw of it makes me even more surprised that you put out the "whatever" attitude about the Utah Republicans article.

I haven't met you, so you ask that I don't assume anything about you. Well then, you haven't met me, yet you jumped to the conclusion that I made a lame racist attempt at humor, when I posted examples of racism towards latinos. Your admonishing post just gave the impression that you merely reacted to one aspect of the post, without really considering why I put it there. Hope you'll at least give future posts more credence before you react. Thanks in advance.

Tars

["Mad" Miles]

Dude,

Replication without preface is tolerance and affirmation. Give your readers a clue. It's called writing and editing and all good communicators do it. Expecting others to read your mind.... Good Luck.

Been doin' this a while, I know how things get out of hand. When I looked at your post a couple of evenings ago, after a long day at work where some major things didn't go well (the next day all was good, my students respond to gentle direction, and can figure out what is in their own best interest, if given the chance) what I saw was a sick racist joke and an article stating the obvious.

No introduction. No expression of the intent in passing it on.

It pissed me off to see the racist "humor" and I chastized and reprimanded you as gently as I could for being, at best, lame.

Of course you didn't like that, who would?

But passing on examples of obnoxious blatantly racist content with no explanatory note. What did you expect?

As to my resume, as stated it was to respond to your reactive response, particularly the comment that my statement of "Whatever" (meant to convey my opinion that you were preaching to the converted) was "Sad".

Not sad. Angry, frustrated, tired, sick of the bullshit. (Not just your's, all of it.)

Communication is a bitch (pace all Women, but it's the current vernacular), email does not convey affect (at least not very well). In a private email earlier today I told another participant in wacco-land about you, that,

"I often enjoy" your "interventions / disruptions, but when" you "posted that anti-Chicano racist piece of sh^# humor fake license," you "got me going! I tried to stay within the PC/SC (Spiritually Correct, just made it up, unless someone got there before me and I just haven't heard about it yet) waccobb guidelines..."

The first demonstration I ever organized was an Anti-Racism Rally in the Fall of 1976 at UCI, in response to three Chicano students being beaten up at a late night pharmacy in Irvine by some Honky White Boy Fraternity Brothers.

(Never caught by the way, and since I'm a Honky myself I feel justified in using the slur. Sort of like the "N" word if you're Black. But not really.)

I've had a few Latino friends, some particularly close. You dissed them, whether you believe it or not, by conveying that joke, whatever your intent.

What I learned (Yes, I'm preaching, lecturing and teaching here) back in the late seventies and early eighties is that intent is nothing, reception is everything. If someone thinks you dissed them, you did. What you/I thought we were doing is secondary to what the aggrieved party heard, saw, felt. I learned this from Black people, Brown people and Women. It wasn't an easy lesson to accept. It still isn't easy and I often resist it. But it is the way things work.

When communicating on very, very sensitive subjects, discretion, caution and care are paramount. As someone who errs on the side of disclosure, as opposed to discretion, I've had to learn that one over and over and over....

Repeating a blatantly racist joke, without putting it in context and prefacing it with something like, "For eductional purposes", is repeating the Racism.

And as I was reminded recently at the corporate training at my new job, even if you say "For educational purposes only" and then talk about an extremely sensitive subject with a smile on your face and a demeanor of dismissal and enjoyment, you're replicating the problem.

That's the double edged sword of humor. It cuts both ways. And when one conveys a cavalier attitude about the worst aspects of human behavior, be prepared to take some heat for it.

If there is any meaning to the term "conscious behavior" being willing to accept responsibility for the responses (and sometimes reactions) of others is a big part of it.

You also seem like a well intentioned man to me. I doubt this argument will result in permanent damage to either of us. (At least I certainly hope not!)

And what the F#&% are you doing home (or on a computer anywhere) at 8:25 p.m. on a Friday night!? My excuse is that I'm low on money, tired, went out last night and am going out again tomorrow night, but it still feels like social isolation here at Chez "M"M.

Go find a party! And then tell me where it is!! Then we can really throw down rhetorically and work this all out!!! Maybe we'll impress, or at least engage, some women in the process and not have to spend our time bloviating on this board! At least not as much...

Peace,

"Mad" Miles

[GiGi]

"Have you ever noticed that bullies blame their victims for their actions? "I had to do it, they were threatening me!"

thank you sharing this insight into your being, Madmiles
after all you were so instrumental in censoring ThePhiant
you were only defending, so you HAD to do it.
heads up!


"And Tecumseh, I read, admired and applauded your debunking of the "wanna be" cultural looting of Indian/Native American spirituality. I didn't think you overly angry or disrespectful in the least."

I sincerely doubt you would have made the same statement, had those posts come from a white boy like yourself......................

[Tars]

Force the evil to shrivel and blow away
Just drag it out into the light of day

Or, don't show it, don't speak about it, maybe it'll go away...somehow.

"Whatever".

[GiGi]

Tars,

such harsh and violent words, coming from YOU!
are you suggesting that discrimination IS ok???


GiGi

Force the evil to shrivel and blow away
Just drag it out into the light of day

Or, don't show it, don't speak about it, maybe it'll go away...somehow.

"Whatever".