Weeding ThePhiant

[Barry]

I've just come in from my first weeding of my garden this year and I must say that ThePhiant sure strikes me as a weed that needs to be removed from the garden we are growing here.

I have also been impressed with "her" ability to walk the line "between satire and insult, between playful teasing and veiled demeaning" . Well this time she fell off. I'm sure she can defend her deliberately ambiguous remarks but I'm not going to play that game.

Thanks to Miles for so thoughtfully and eloquently laying bare the troll aspect of The Phiant's participation here. And thanks to ThePhiant for so clearly embodying it on the thread Hostile New Age Takeover of Yoga, as well as What Men Want and Gender Differences & the Scientific Method.

I see that Zeno has compared ThePhiant's presence here to that of a jester, who "use[es] humor to mock and joke, who could speak without causing offense". However ThePhiant has offended many, including me, and rather than making use of "jokes, songs and dance", ThePhiant trades in jabs and taunts. Whereas my favorite fool, Mulla Nasrudin, brings "the little extra which brings the consciousness of the potential mystic a little further on the way to realization", ThePhiant brings the little extra that brings the consciousness further away from realization.

I don't want to put the community through a whole vote process although I value the democratic process. However, if 10 people want to speak up in favor of ThePhiant staying by 11:59pm Tuesday, we'll have a vote from Wednesday morning through 11:59pm Thursday.

Barry

Dear Miles,

you mean to tell me I can be offensive to YOU without even trying???
I had no idea it was YOU who really wanted to perform circus acts and parlor tricks.
when I see the word "MAD" in somebody's name, I get all mushy inside and it make me shiver in my Wellingtons.

the bold lines below are mine, of course


Everybody,

I just replied privately to "The Phiant". My email was emphatic but I do not think it violated the boundaries of respectful communication. And since I strongly believe in candor, upon further consideration I've decided to report it here.
Actually your email was pathetic and full of cowardice. if you have something to say, do it here. don't hide behind private emails to call somebody a name.

The gist of my message was that I do not take anything he/she writes seriously and consider his/her contributions to this board to fit the definition of an internet trolls behavior.

I've held back my conclusion* about him/her from this board both publicly and privately, but when someone insults me, it is my practice to firmly respond. and how exactly where you insulted to justify your strong, manly response??????????
When someone consistently insults others, I note it, but leave it to them as rational, responsible, self-directed adults to defend themselves. Or to not defend themselves, as they choose.

* A conclusion I came to after only two or three of his/her first contributions quite a few months ago. this shows how clever you are!

I've wondered about "The Phiant"s gender, but he/she has been very cagy about not revealing that information, as well as pretty much all other personal details about him/her-self. It has been an interesting thought exercise for me to idly ponder. And I've concluded that it really doesn't matter. once again, this shows how clever you are
In my fifty years of existence I've observed and/or experienced hostility by both men and women, as well as affection and comradery. So I see it as an example of how anyone can be a negative force on others. And Bog knows, I've been one at times. And a few more times I've been unjustly accused of being a jerk, or worse. So it's been a good opportunity for introspection as well.

There is one area of behaviour that I will compliment "The Phiant" on. flattery will get YOU nowhere, you silly MadMan That is his/her ability to stay consistently and carefully in the grey zone between satire and insult, between playful teasing and veiled demeaning. It is a true performance in the art of.... well, if I say what I think any more directly I would probably be guilty of violating the boundaries on this board that do not permit direct personal attacks. Perhaps I've already done so here, but if I have it is in defensive response, not by overt, unprovoked initiation of hostilities.I told, you, you are one clever MAN,
and how, and what was it again that hurt your feelings, you silly MadMan?

And should anyone conclude that anything I have written here is unacceptably hostile, I would like to note that if there were no limits on expression here, my response would be much more succinct, to the point and highly scatological.
Yep, a little self- knowledge doesn't hurt
What you have just read from me represents a conscious exercise in self-control and diplomacy. And yes, I could probably work more on my skills as a non-violent activist and communicator. But that folks, is a much longer story.


"All we doin' is defenden"
Uhm, what are you defending????
I thought I should asks before I REALLY respond

love

Lulu
(I am sorry, I looked it up, but my name is not a dutch swear word.
it was a nice try by the ZenoPhobic professor)

Linton Kwesi Johnson, in a line from his song "The SPG is'a Murdarah"
The SPG is short for the Special Patrol Group, Britain's tactical riot squads.


Have a good night!

"Mad" er than usual Miles

[ThePhiant]

well Barry,

I don't want to be part of an anti freedom of speech movement that doesn't want me as a member.
I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

a grouchy 'ThePhiant' LuLu

I've just come in from my first weeding of my garden this year and I must say that ThePhiant sure strikes me as a weed that needs to be removed from the garden we are growing here.

I have also been impressed with "her" ability to walk the line "between satire and insult, between playful teasing and veiled demeaning" . Well this time she fell off. I'm sure she can defend her deliberately ambiguous remarks but I'm not going to play that game.

Thanks to Miles for so thoughtfully and eloquently laying bare the troll aspect of The Phiant's participation here. And thanks to ThePhiant for so clearly embodying it on the thread Hostile New Age Takeover of Yoga, as well as What Men Want and Gender Differences & the Scientific Method.

I see that Zeno has compared ThePhiant's presence here to that of a jester, who "use[es] humor to mock and joke, who could speak without causing offense". However ThePhiant has offended many, including me, and rather than making use of "jokes, songs and dance", ThePhiant trades in jabs and taunts. Whereas my favorite fool, Mulla Nasrudin, brings "the little extra which brings the consciousness of the potential mystic a little further on the way to realization", ThePhiant brings the little extra that brings the consciousness further away from realization.

I don't want to put the community through a whole vote process although I value the democratic process. However, if 10 people want to speak up in favor of ThePhiant staying by 11:59pm Tuesday, we'll have a vote from Wednesday morning through 11:59pm Thursday.

Barry

[/quote]

[Barry]

well Barry,

I don't want to be part of an anti freedom of speech movement that doesn't want me as a member.
I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

a grouchy 'ThePhiant' LuLu

I'm sorry, Lulu, I was not aware you sent in any money. I most certainly will refund it to you.

[Chris Murray]

One vote in favor of The Phiant not being exorcised. When I come across postings from people who I find boorish or boring, I just don't bother to read what they have to say. As a lurker, rather than active poster, I haven't had the occasion to be insulted yet, but perhaps now's my opportunity. Should I be quaking in my wellies LuLu?

[alanora]

Perhaps a special spot for those who wish to engage in sarcasm and one upmanship is in order? For those who value the cleverly worded cutting remark? Ex east coasters? Verbal jousting was something I enjoyed at one time, however now my thrust is figuring out how to be more present and authentic and kind. mindy

[MsTerry]

Hi All,

'Weeds are plants whose benefits haven't been fully discovered'

I don't remember who said this, but I think it even applies to this case.

Humor is a personal taste and when someone as educated as professor Zeno can see the function of the little bite a Court jester can bring, then who am I to disagree.
I think Mad Miles went way over board, ThePhiant is making fun of Yoga not him when he talks about trim, fit women doing parlor tricks. I guess she thinks that they are all doing circus acts (look at the photo Miles posted, I can't do that)
so then Miles when on an attack and thePhiant responded to that in a sarcastic way.
With Juggledude thePhiant exposed the hypocritical way Royce lectures others, and not himself.
I understand that Barry wants to support his friends, but can we laugh at ourselves every now and again?
ThePhiant seems to expose some raw nerves, we can learn from that if we want to too.

T

[nurturetruth]

I feel that "WEEDS" were put on this Earth for one reason or another ...and if they grow tall enough.... other vibration animals...such as cats, deer, etc...LOVE to take refuge and either play or sleep in them!!

Course, I practice "plucking the weeds" from my beautiful divine garden when they get too much! WHO WISHES WEEDS TO TAKE OVER A BEAUTIFUL GROWING , EVOLVING GARDEN?

For me, it is learning to be aware of "what i want and what my needs are".

WE ALL CAN LEARN plenty from this experience!!

I hold much GRATITUDE to both "THE PHIANT" and MAD Miles for being vulnerable enough to share their experience and feelings with the community. WE ALL HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN!!

I TOO am a BIG supporter of FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION...( healthy expression that is!) as well as accepting others "where they are at" on their Spiritual Karmic Journey......

**** "ANYTHING THAT BOTHERS ME IS ONLY a PROBLEM WITHIN. ONLY I CAN EXPERIENCE IT, AND ONLY I CAN CORRECT IT" ******

NOW-- IT IS NOW OUR POSITION as A COMMUNITY ...To come to a resolution!!

One that holds "whatis in the best interest for all"
((i personally hold gratitude to ALL the "boogie unpleasant" teachers who have come my way! Without their presence, I would NOT have been able to grasp "the gift of the lesson being taught")))

One solution that comes to mind: to have a distinct category for those wishing to act out "RANT & RAVE" type of vibration.
People NEED to feel acceptance and not rejected or punished for "where they are at". ALL EMOTIONS ARE OK TO FEEL.

However, an act of HOSTILITY is NEVER in "THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL" and should be handled with care and consensus.

((I personally just don't open my doors to such beings. I choose NOT to read their postings or engage in POWER STRUGGELS. I send the be-ing a blessing and that is that.))

Perhaps a "3 strikes/chances and your out" policy? or..

~~ "sitting it out - on probation policy" ...where the user is blocked for a certain time period ..but not BANNED.

From reading the posts between Barry and "DA-FIANCE"...

It appears that "the phiant" HAS chosen to ask for his MEMBERSHIP MONEY back!!!
If this is a true feeling for "the PHIANT" .....then it does show that "the phiant" would rather NOT take the needed actions to be part of a "consciously awakening " geared community and that perhaps an online community such as "Craigslist" may be more appropriate for "THE PHIANT's" energy field.

WE ARE ALL PERFECTLY IMPERFECT. The more we can love our own imperfections/mistakes----and simply learn and evolve from them.... the easier we can accept others for WHERE they are "AT" on their spiritual karmic journey.

THANK GOODNESS.. "The Phiant" as well as "Mad Miles"..were vulnerable enough to show the community "WHERE" they are both at.

THIS IS A GREAT GIFT TO THE COMMUNITY OF WACCO TO ASK THEMSELVES, "WHAT DO WE WANT WACCO TO BE??"

.. .. "WHAT ARE THE FEELINGS-NEEDS" regarding WACCO community and "WHAT TYPE OF ENERGY DO WE WISH TO CREATE , SUPPORT and PORTRAY?

[nicofrog]

I find it amazing how people can have time to sit and type discuss on computer just reading 40% of it(No I did NOT Count the words) is more than I can fit in.
ah The INTELLECT how we flex it like a muscle.There are some people who LIVE for debate to be right and wrong is bigger than love itself!
GENDER DIFFERENCE IS AN ILLUSION WE CREATE TO KEEP US APART
Just like so many other isms. religions etc. miss or mister De Phiant
just loves to lock wits and befuddle everyone with a seemingly NEW viewpoint that is as old as anarchy.
My vote on kicking her ,him, or it off is why bother,if something is off the wall, responding to it is like throwing gasoline on a fire you want to put out.
Want to be hurt and outraged and bitter about society? just imagine being a hermaphrodite for awhile.Want to stop a fight? leave the bar.
Love ya all, my dear parents were argumentaholics. I'm a reconciliateaholic.
HEY I vote we start a new debate on weeds! there truly are no weeds
even poison oak has its friends! all weeds open up soil create canopy, and when composted make free humus for the soil! any patch of soil covered with "weeds" is healthier than a bare patch more likely to contain soil builders like worms etc.
Nico
So elePhient.. elfrogo here celebrates your defiance,but your vicious references and spiteful smirks are unattractive and make me think you young and careless or nihilistic. I feel sad when I read that.and I'm not sure the community has much to Learn in being compassionate or sympathetic or forgiving of that,perhaps you could explain why the issue, or the argument form, or science is such a big "Button" for you, or do you just truly delight in hiding behind a screen and being as obnoxious as you want,like a hidden superpower.wow that must feel good,I hope you have some friends somewhere,cause you're not making a bunch here to fast.
ah so having said all that here I am probably feeding the same stupid fire
Oh well that's addiction for ya! beautiful day, let's get out there and see some faces! LOVE

[Juggledude]

I find it amazing how people can have time to sit and type discuss on computer just reading 40% of it... miss or mister De Phiant just loves to lock wits and befuddle everyone with a seemingly NEW viewpoint that is as old as anarchy.
My vote on kicking her ,him, or it off is why bother,if something is off the wall, responding to it is like throwing gasoline on a fire you want to put out.
...
So elePhient.. elfrogo here celebrates your defiance,but your vicious references and spiteful smirks are unattractive and make me think you young and careless or nihilistic. I feel sad when I read that.and I'm not sure the community has much to Learn in being compassionate or sympathetic or forgiving of that,perhaps you could explain why the issue, or the argument form, or science is such a big "Button" for you, or do you just truly delight in hiding behind a screen and being as obnoxious as you want,like a hidden superpower.wow that must feel good,I hope you have some friends somewhere,cause you're not making a bunch here to fast.
ah so having said all that here I am probably feeding the same stupid fire
Oh well that's addiction for ya! beautiful day, let's get out there and see some faces! LOVE

Well said, Nico.

MsTerry, thanks for your bluntness and fresh perspective. I do see the hypocrisy in my recent post to dePhiant on the what women want thread, in which I stooped to base name calling even while touting some moral high ground. For that, I apologize, to DePhiant as well as to the community.

I'm a great champion of freedom of speech, and as such would hate to see censorship in a forum such as this, but to run the risk of hypocrisy again, I am also sorely troubled by the negativity and spite that seems to stem from the direction of thePhiant. I would welcome an honest discussion among members of this community I have chosen to be part of, yet I do not categorize the sniping from behind a mask of anyonimity that thePhiant engages in to be discussion, or to be building community.

I appreciate the alternatives suggested by magicnrgy, and I'd like to add one more...

If an obviously anonymous user reaches "probationary" status or otherwise comports themselves so as to be at least nuisance and at worst a destructive element, then require them to step forth with a genuine identity from which to continue their particular brand of eloquence. For me, this is not a game, this is an aspect of my life in which I am vesting part of my energy and soul. To have such vulnerability toyed with and attacked from a fictitious vector is difficult and painful, even if it's only because of my personal attachment and the reality with which I approach this venue.

I am willing to honestly view myself, and thank the community for the opportunity of perspective. ThePhaint, if you are being real, if you do care and or wish to continue discussion, please, step up, let us know who you are, and take responsibility for your own actions, so that we may continue to grow and learn in an atmosphere of mutual respect and consideration. If you are playing some deviant mind game, pulling a "troll" and poking the anthill of Wacco with the stick of your vituperous wit, without being willing to take actions you would take face to face, well, then, please, go find some other community to do it in.

Royce

[mykil]

Well Geez Guyz; if it is a women, I haven’t even dated her yet! Sorry! As One Conscience, that wouldn’t make her/him not a weed but a thought pattern that we have within us all. I vote that we vote, that way my Conscience will be clear!

[ThePhiant]

Dude,

Even though it comes out sideways, (and after all this you still can't or won't spell ThePhiant correctly), apologies accepted.

if I had as much free time, as you apparently do have, I too would right (pun intended, I might as well spell it out) long evocative and eloquent epistles.
two things seem to be getting in the way of your comfort zone.
alleged anonymity and alleged gender transcendence
WE ARE ALL ANONYMOUS!
do you know the girl at Hole Foots any better than me because she has a name tag?
you have my name. what is it you really want? A date?

just look at it this way, you can thank ThePhiant for having such wonderful
insights into your self by being confronted with yourself in a most unexpected way.
this doesn't HAVE to be about you, it can be about your ideas............

Well said, Nico.

MsTerry, thanks for your bluntness and fresh perspective. I do see the hypocrisy in my recent post to dePhiant on the what women want thread, in which I stooped to base name calling even while touting some moral high ground. For that, I apologize, to DePhiant as well as to the community.

I'm a great champion of freedom of speech, and as such would hate to see censorship in a forum such as this, but to run the risk of hypocrisy again, I am also sorely troubled by the negativity and spite that seems to stem from the direction of thePhiant. I would welcome an honest discussion among members of this community I have chosen to be part of, yet I do not categorize the sniping from behind a mask of anyonimity that thePhiant engages in to be discussion, or to be building community.

I appreciate the alternatives suggested by magicnrgy, and I'd like to add one more...

If an obviously anonymous user reaches "probationary" status or otherwise comports themselves so as to be at least nuisance and at worst a destructive element, then require them to step forth with a genuine identity from which to continue their particular brand of eloquence. For me, this is not a game, this is an aspect of my life in which I am vesting part of my energy and soul. To have such vulnerability toyed with and attacked from a fictitious vector is difficult and painful, even if it's only because of my personal attachment and the reality with which I approach this venue.

I am willing to honestly view myself, and thank the community for the opportunity of perspective. ThePhaint, if you are being real, if you do care and or wish to continue discussion, please, step up, let us know who you are, and take responsibility for your own actions, so that we may continue to grow and learn in an atmosphere of mutual respect and consideration. If you are playing some deviant mind game, pulling a "troll" and poking the anthill of Wacco with the stick of your vituperous wit, without being willing to take actions you would take face to face, well, then, please, go find some other community to do it in.

Royce

[Sonomamark]

Barry, I support your position. As someone who has been very careful when involved in controversy to stick to the issue and avoid personal characterizations and other fallacies, I see this person as clearly being unable or unwilling to play nicely with others on the Internet. I have not seen any indication that her participation is anything other than an arrant disregard for minimal community behavior standards.

No freedoms are absolute. All are tempered by the agreements we must make together in order to get along and not simply be in a selfish, anarchic free-for-all. Just as it is not a legitimate free speech right to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre, it is a well-recognized Internet phenomenon that some people just don't get that they are communicating with real people when typing at their computers. They say and do things that they would never do to our faces--at least, I hope they wouldn't.

Such deliberately rude, disruptive and unproductive individuals subtract from, rather than adding to, online discourse. It's an unfortunate part of your role as a moderator to keep our playground bully-free. I think you've been more than tolerant.

As to the idea that "weeds have a role", 'weeds are plants whose benefits haven't been fully discovered' &c--actually, no. A weed by definition is a plant which has a deleterious impact on the desired state of the area where it grows. In a garden, people may have a strongly controlling vision of how they want their garden to be, resulting in a strict "no tolerance" policy. In a wildlife area, conservation biologists define a weed as a plant species which grows aggressively and forces out native plants that fit better in local food webs, reducing biodiversity, which is the primary health indicator of an ecosystem.

If we were infected with the tuberculosis bacillus, no one would say "we shouldn't take antibiotics because 'the bacillus has a role' or 'its benefits haven't been discovered yet'." We would take the antibiotics because their side effects are far less severe than living with tuberculosis.

This is also true here: the cure has less damaging impact than letting the status quo roll on. I have seen Internet discussion communities become forums where all reasonable, measured, civil participants have been driven away by people who write posts like ThePhiant's. Exclusion of trolls is a basic function that must be performed in order for a forum to remain civil and productive. It's unfortunate, but it's true in every human society: those who are deliberately abusive and disruptive must have some kind of sanction, or standards of behavior are removed, violence escalates, and security plummets.

SonomaMark

[Lisa G]

My quick thought on this: Censorship can be the start of a dangerous and slippery slope.

over all, I think it is generally in the best interests to ignore when ever possible. of course if one was physically attacking someone of any species who is unable to defend them selves then yes, respond.

But how does one begin to define what is disruptive? defensive?
on every forum it seems there will be some who are rude, and deliberately provoke others, and those who think what I find is offensive is humor.

I would like to say that putting any down for their beliefs, culture, heritage, (you all know the list) is when it is not OK, but then when am I in danger of applying censorship myself?

I am offended by hunting. Should that mean people cannot talk about hunting?
I just suggest we all be careful of the censorship.

I choose not to read any of the related posts. Just had to put that out there.
Lisa

[79paul]

I vote we allow the Phiant to stay, in all his/her incarnations and ambiguities.
I follow a lot of these threads, though fortunately I have not been subjected to the private emails that apparently get nasty and personal.
If we want to have a discussion with only people who we already agree with, why bother??

[Carl]

I urge tolerance as far as it can reasonably go. And then offer second chances for those who express the desire for them. But in this case, censorship, hmmm, maybe, maybe not.

I have to remind us of a time about two months ago, Christmas Season, when someone posted a picture of the hindquarters of a dog wherein there was perceived to be an image of a cloaked man who purportedly appeared like the classic image of Jesus Christ. Well, this was utter horsepuckey! Or dog poopy! Like so much other trash that entertains us and makes us think of the total oddness of this universe existing in the first place!

How do we lose the sense of humor? Well I did. When I saw that there were those who objected to the picture of the dog's ass being on view with a holy relic suggested in its form. And then these who objected were belittled by the rest of the community of WACCOBB. Yes, and this belittling was supported by Barry, himself.

I say, let us all show more tolerance for the multitude of our points of view. Holiness does manifest in the very weeds that seem to choke out our lawn and garden. These very weeds are the proof that life is vital and growing and our objection to them and the work we do to eliminate them from our area is how we cultivate our own sense of self. This is Holy Work. Yet, remember that when we ban a life form from our space, that being remains a part of the whole, contributing the dissonance that spices up our life and adds vitality. Trolls and all, we are ugly ducklings, honking like geese for dinner. I think someone said it best when they suggest, Do Not Feed The Trolls.

And here is my personal opinion on Mad Miles' post about lovely Yoga practitioners. I think Yoga and Tantra are being well served by the images of beautiful, healthy people who portray the benefits of such. And Circus stunts have their place in a class of Hatha Yoga, or T'ai Chi or Karate, Break Dancing, Cirque du Soleil as well as at the Nude Bar of your choice. There are so many ways to celebrate our being, let us be happy about it.

Carl.

[Tinque]

I have to say I have VERY mixed feelings about this whole topic ! I feel the need to tell a story , that is TRUE , and may seem meaningless to most , but important to me . My father and I have never been close , to say it lightly, and while I was visiting him in Colorado , ignoring all the painful thoughts of all his unkind words and gestures , I went for a walk in the glorious meadow behind his house and with much joy picked a gorgeous bouquet of thistle and other weeds in which I personally thought was extremely wonderful and all my fathers comments to me were that they were just a bunch of weeds. I have never ever forgotten this and I was absolutely devastated ! What is the point of me expressing this ? I just felt it appropriate. I very much back Barry on any decision he makes. I , for one , was put in a very UNCOMFORTABLE situation recently and Barry stood by my side , NOT ON MY SIDE , just by it , and I feel I was worthy of that , and I felt a little bit of that feeling when you have friends and family by your side and you feel safe . I am not sure about the judgment call on this matter , except that life
is full of EVERY TYPE OF OPINION and we should , in my opinion, learn and expand our horizons with every oppurtunity given With thanks and gratitude for my participation , I thank you Sincerely Tinque....!

[fluteman]

My reply here is going to more neutral in nature, yet if situations such as this are best served by honesty, then I'll do my best to share where I'm coming from with an open heart.

I'm mainly a lurker on this forum, but I actually used to be a moderator at a forum that had a 7 digit post count, which was one gigantic, crazy and chaotic place to spend one's internet time. I also served as a moderator at another forum that was about Wacco's size or slightly larger when I first joined, but soon grew by epic proportions to become one huge online community to be reckoned with. I've seen the afore mentioned and other forums start small and humble with the best of intentions, and eventually as the community grows and more and more people join, problems will arise due to people who seem to have nothing better to do than harass others on the internet. We're in the midst of a new frontier with this online world, and the concept of being able to be an a**hole with almost total anonymity is something that evidently appeals to quite a few folks.

My personal take on this matter is going to very blunt, to the point, and may possibly offend some people, but I can only speak (type) how I feel about this as it hits close to home:

First off, we all need to remove the word "troll" from our online slang repositories. When any person joins an online community and displays hurtful, racial, slanderous or otherwise overtly negative posts, they are in most all cases, screaming out for attention. Everyone here knows this (even if we forget at times, especially if we are hooked in)...and these unfortunate folks love nothing better than to "stir up the calmness of the pond"...and there's really only one way of effectively handing such a situation before it turns into a complete and utter mess:

1) Warn the person immediately, and ask them to apologize, preferably publicly to the offended party. If they refuse, then they should be banned either for a specific amount of time, or permanently (I prefer the latter).

2) If they own up to their actions (who here hasn't put our foot in our mouth more than a few times in life?), and show to be of good heart, then let them stay and be part of the community.

3). Move on. Life is too short for online drama (or any drama, for that matter)!

There is a time for a group hug, and a time for an honest kick in the rear. Abusive people will NEVER change their behavior if we keep giving them "Get Out of Jail Free" cards. And while this may sound strange to many people, the biggest and truest "Trolls" are usually either the moderators, forum creators or people who helped start the forum, not the angry 13 year olds who have ADD. I speak from much experience here, sadly.

That all being said, this is Barry's forum, I've only met him in person once and my impression both in person and online is that he's one helluva nice guy. I applaud him for taking a stand and not wishing to tolerate the kind of behavior that we've seen here. If an online community is to grow, it needs new blood, but who in their right mind wants to be a part of any community that's full of rude, insensitive people?

I know that West County has lots of good down to Earth folks who haven't forgotten how to love, so brothers and sisters, come on out of the woods and let's spread some positive vibes for a change! I know not everyone has become like this interesting gentleman:

https://www.myspace.com/angryhippy

-Erick

[nurturetruth]

It is sooo refreshing and encouraging to hear the community offering all their feelings, insights and suggestions!

I am aware there are those that do not engage or enjoy "dancing" and may not be able to relate to this,

But this conversation has been like a "dance" for me and from the Observers' point of view..

I can't help but to wonder what this energy would look like on a dance floor right now!! (giggles ....)

I usually show up at a "dance" NOT "seeking" any particular vibration to dance "with" or "merge with". I go alone and enjoy myself around other vibrations.

Usually , I am comfortable dancing with only myself and being in tune with my body and feeling the rise of the vibration and releasing or whatever needs to be felt/processed/moved..

Then, there are dancers I choose NOT to dance with. There are dancers I consciously choose to stay far away from on the dance floor because their energy is too intense or free form or perhaps structured /evolved for "where I am at".

And though my body gets taken over by the music and intense vibration of a "group of so many different vibrations coming together and dancing on the same dance floor together"....
I don't seem to loose my awareness of what type of ENERGY I enjoy dancing with or around. and...

I don't loose my awareness of those around me and hold a sense of respect for their space and energy. (not to bump into them, or "step on any toes" ...so to speak!)

It is my intent to add just a "little lightness" to the topic we are discussing...

[Leslie]

I am responding to the idea of barring someone from the list serve.

I TOTALLY disagree with barring ThePhiant


what ever happened to our First Ammendment rights..??

So what if someone writes something you don't like. it's just a discussion don't keep reading or don't respond.
As far as I can tell the people involved are enjoying themselves in these conversations.
I don't agree with personally slamming someone in any way in this public way but that isn't the point of these discussions about yoga or differenciations between male and female traits..

I TOTALLY disagree with barring ThePhiant because this person is stirring some feelings up.. do not barr this person from posts.
The guidelines are stated about how to treat each other if we can respect each other we can have arguements
" the agree the disagree"
no harm done
treat each other as you wish to be treated

I remember times when others have done the same stirrings and now see that they are seen as a valuable contributor. Won't mention names.

I could think about a lot of other things to fight about or for.

Try fighting against steroid use in young people.. how many suicides are showing up because young men are eating steroids.. How about where are the good role models???, the good heroes in our society???.. how about good heros in our community?

anyway I don't want to see anyone being barred because they have a difference of opinion and stimulate discussions even if a little heated.. no harm done.

Leslie

[Sara S]

I'm with you, here, although there are a lot of good thoughts on No Censorship, too. I love reading such intelligent and thoughtful comments, though not mean, nasty stuff.

I do think that anyone who uses more than two colors or emoticons in a post should be censored.

Sara S.

I've just come in from my first weeding of my garden this year and I must say that ThePhiant sure strikes me as a weed that needs to be removed from the garden we are growing here. ...

[rodeogal]

My vote is to ban her from Wacco. I've not seen anything positive from this person, and have been personally attacked by her in the What Women Want thread. I actually have a lot to say here, I just won't participate for fear of being personally attacked by Lulu again. My life is challenging enough........I don't need to be attacked online, too. I enjoy Wacco. I've read all the replys here and can see all different points of view. Yet why would I voluntarily subject myself to vicious attacks for posting my viewpoint? I'm only adding my 2 cents here to help get her off here. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a compassionate person, and usually the first to offer support to anyone hurting. But I have a really hard time offering anything to someone who continually throws darts at an entire community. In all honesty, I feel sorry for this person. Obviously her life is so sad that she has to throw darts and ANONIMOUSLY. I still choose not to participate in posting if she stays.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

[ThePhiant]

clancy

"Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!)."

ARE YOU SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE????????????????
AFTER ALL YOU ARE ANONYMOUS AND YOUR GENDER IS NOT KNOWN EITHER.

[Mrs. Wacco]

You are all feeding the troll by simply having this discussion. The following is from this link;
https://www.flayme.com/troll/



What Is A Troll?

The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.

Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows.

Why do trolls do it?

I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.

Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.

For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.

Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?

Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).

How can troll posts be recognised?

...the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.

Here Here! Troll behavior is akin to passive/aggressive behavior: the power is in getting the response. The best way to deal: IGNORE

This is a community that needs to learn to deal with all kinds of folks who carefully walk the line where some are offended and others not. She clearly writes in a way to irritate and poke. Well, just step aside from the poke (think aikido)

Ignoring Phiant will be work; she pokes in such a way that you can't help yourself. But you can!! It's part of growing awareness and consciousness within yourself. Don't get sucked in.

If you enjoy the Phiant, respond to her, privately. There is concern, if people do respond to her publicly, threads will get derailed for people who want to follow a thread but not Phiant. This will take work on members part to navigate. I have no idea what the technical implications are.

Maybe there can be a new feature: "Members to ignore"

Linda

[rodeogal]

ARE YOU SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE????????????????
AFTER ALL YOU ARE ANONYMOUS AND YOUR GENDER IS NOT KNOWN EITHER.

Geez Lulu! Why do you have to yell? This is exactly why some of us here want you gone! And by the way, I am a woman, in Sebastopol, and choose not to give my name.

[Lorrie]

March 26, 2007

Today's Outlook: Today's emotionally sensitive Cancer Moon drives our feelings inward because they seem out of place in the real world. Although we might choose not to express our needs for fear of rejection, showing vulnerability may be a sign of strength and not of weakness. Meanwhile, the fiery Aries Sun tensely semisquares dreamy Neptune, continuing yesterday's theme of uncertainty. Although we may believe that action is required, patience may be a smarter tactic.

[Larissad]

In this case I concur...as long as there have been no serious threats or slanders made (like use of racial/ethnic slurs, or threats against the well-being of another's person).
Namaste.
-Larissa

Hi All,

'Weeds are plants whose benefits haven't been fully discovered'

I don't remember who said this, but I think it even applies to this case.

Humor is a personal taste and when someone as educated as professor Zeno can see the function of the little bite a Court jester can bring, then who am I to disagree.
I think Mad Miles went way over board, ThePhiant is making fun of Yoga not him when he talks about trim, fit women doing parlor tricks. I guess she thinks that they are all doing circus acts (look at the photo Miles posted, I can't do that)
so then Miles when on an attack and thePhiant responded to that in a sarcastic way.
With Juggledude thePhiant exposed the hypocritical way Royce lectures others, and not himself.
I understand that Barry wants to support his friends, but can we laugh at ourselves every now and again?
ThePhiant seems to expose some raw nerves, we can learn from that if we want to too.

T

[mykil]

Has Anyone Seen My Dog???

Oh we were being Serious!! IT has become apparent to me that Lulu wants to stay! This says allot, as not wanting to be cast away in haste, thrown from the train, pulled without leaving a seed. Performing the mental lobotomy, maybe you might ask her if she/he will try to behave. Leave it to her/him as it maybe. To be in control once again, her/his own demise. I really think she/he might want to change the name to Lulu; I do like that much more than the one being used now.

The options as deem if she/he wouldn’t behave, it’s not only the name that would be banned, it would be the IP address, so it wouldn’t matter what name she/he uses, it wouldn’t work from that computer or household. She might use a friend’s puter, which would get that IP banned as well, so there isn’t much that she/he could do if Barry really does ban her. Food for thought for the Lulu! Peace is more than just a word!

[Tars]

Congratulations Barry - for operating these forums! There're uplifting aspects to it, then there're frustrating aspects, as in this instant.

This situation reminds me of a local usenet group I used to frequent - "sonoma.general". I ultimately just dropped participation there because it was absolutely democratic. It was absolute in the sense that there were several "trolls" or social morons who took the thing over in the frequency & negativity of their posts.

Hatred spew is negative energy, and while it is sufficient for some reasonable people, in their desire to be humane, to tolerate negative personalities, that negative energy turns most people off. Most participants in forums don't usually participate more than by reading posts. If the percentage of negative posts gets too great for them, they don't complain about it, they just leave and don't come back. So the net effect of trolls is to reduce the amount of participation in forums.

A truly democratic discussion needs to be moderated/managed; congress and parliament are excellent examples of this concept. You are the arbiter of the discussions here. To maximize the volume and the quality of the discussions, I urge you to weed out the trolls who detract from positive discussion. If they can't/won't participate positively, then let them go set up their own forum, where they can spew all the obnoxious things they want. And there, the people who don't mind or are attracted to that nonsense, can participate in it too.

Tars

[ThePhiant]

Barry wants to pull, you want to ignore.
are you still 'gardening' together?
relationship status: no answer??????????
the little cleavage might help................

but on a more personal matter, a lot of people, I don't even know, are saying awful things about me, do you think I should ask for sanctions from Barry?

Here Here! Troll behavior is akin to passive/aggressive behavior: the power is in getting the response. The best way to deal: IGNORE

This is a community that needs to learn to deal with all kinds of folks who carefully walk the line where some are offended and others not. She clearly writes in a way to irritate and poke. Well, just step aside from the poke (think aikido)

Ignoring Phiant will be work; she pokes in such a way that you can't help yourself. But you can!! It's part of growing awareness and consciousness within yourself. Don't get sucked in.

If you enjoy the Phiant, respond to her, privately. There is concern, if people do respond to her publicly, threads will get derailed for people who want to follow a thread but not Phiant. This will take work on members part to navigate. I have no idea what the technical implications are.

Maybe there can be a new feature: "Members to ignore"

Linda

[ThePhiant]

Hello again,

so Lyndascue Christensen is not your name?
double standards are the standard

Geez Lulu! Why do you have to yell? This is exactly why some of us here want you gone! And by the way, I am a woman, in Sebastopol, and choose not to give my name.