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  1. TopTop #1
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    This is why a federation of nation states is a superior arrangement to a global government. A global government will be usurped and replaced with a fascist ruling class tyranny within minutes and will end any chance for experiment and comparison on the planet forever. Why do you suppose you won't you see this story on CNN?

    Confounding claims by many that its open society approach to coronavirus would spectacularly backfire, Sweden, which didn’t enforce any mandatory lockdown order, has seen its coronavirus cases and deaths slow to a trickle.

    Back in March, when Sweden announced that it would adopt a different approach to much of the rest of the world by refusing to shut down its economy and instead aim for herd immunity, public health experts and media commentators were aghast at the decision, warning that the country’s hospitals would be overwhelmed with COVID victims.

    Summing up the attitude towards Sweden’s approach, Danish journalist Lisbeth Davidsen said it was “like watching a horror movie.”

    Fast forward five months and the horror show predicted by many has completely failed to materialize."

    https://summit.news/2020/08/11/in-sw...-to-a-trickle/
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  3. TopTop #2
    socoexpat
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    Well, let's look at the current reality shall we?

    Sweeden has 57 deaths per 100K (neighbors Norway and Denmark have 5 and 11 respectively).

    For comparison, two other major countries that failed to lockdown to control the virus- the US has 50 and the UK 70.

    The science and medical journals have been abuzz in recent days with the conclusion that Sweedens attempt to create "herd immunity" has failed- quite miserably. To be fair, and something worthy of a whole other discussion, there does seem to be evidence that immunity to covid-19 is, at best, short lived. Which does NOT bode well for a vaccine, nor the herd immunity- whether from a vaccine or widespread infection, that is normally needed to wind down a pandemic of this sort.
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  4. TopTop #3
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    I believe zero of what is reported in the mainstream media. Zero. This disease has been shamelessly politicized to the point that it is considered a means to attack Trump, blunt his economic gains by shutting down the economy, desensitizing the populace to accept police state regimentation, and create a climate of fear and hysteria that can be led like a puppy on a chain. Covid 19 is the product of bio-warfare carried out by the fascist oligarchy who engineered it at the US bio warfare laboratory at Ft. Detrick in partnership with the Wuhan Institute of Virology and released in China to create plausible deniability for the actual source of this engineered, gene spliced attack upon freedom. It's that ding dong simple. The ugly truth is that leftists are secretly hoping that Covid 19 will defeat Trump and are resisting the adoption of hydrochloroquine and other promising virus killer drugs simply to hurt Trump. This is insanity and is not going unnoticed. Instead of defeating Trump, it is causing mass defection from the radical agenda and will actually serve to elect him. You can quibble the details, but this is the meta paradigm. Note to self - buy popcorn.

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  5. TopTop #4
    socoexpat
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    ah yes...I see. Sorry...didn't realize you were so enlightened

    Of course- my response didn't come form the "evil" mainstream media. Nor from the right wing media/social networks you get your news from.

    It came from this thing called science. Hard data. Peer review. FACTS.

    The data is publicly available. Show me any data that contradicts what I said and/or supports what you said or kindly STFU.
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  6. TopTop #5
    musik900's Avatar
    musik900
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    Hi Socco, I'm wondering why you are only using the total deaths per 1000 for Sweden instead of the more up-to-date and relevant facts that their death rate has diminished dramatically since their peak in April. And now, in the last week or so (unlike most countries) they have had ZERO deaths per day for most days. ZERO. Does that NOT mean anything? Yes, many people did die for a country of about 10 million, and that's horrible. But IMHO although it was pretty scary for Sweden in April when they peaked at 115 deaths in one day, they have been the winners here for actually succeeding in controlling the Pandemic in their country. Yes, they took a chance. But there must have been some wisdom involved, because they ended up getting results that you can't deny is pretty darn awesome. Please check Sweden's death-per-day graph, and compare it to almost every other country in the WORLD. My 2 cents.
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  8. TopTop #6
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    You mean this "science"?

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931774

    From https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018...-death-penalty

    "Still, the surge in retractions led many observers to call on publishers, editors, and other gatekeepers to make greater efforts to stamp out bad science. The attention also helped catalyze an effort by two longtime health journalists—Ivan Oransky and Adam Marcus, who founded the blog Retraction Watch, based in New York City—to get more insight into just how many scientific papers were being withdrawn, and why. They began to assemble a list of retractions.


    That list, formally released to the public this week as a searchable database, is now the largest and most comprehensive of its kind. It includes more than 18,000 retracted papers and conference abstracts dating back to the 1970s (and even one paper from 1756 involving Benjamin Franklin). It is not a perfect window into the world of retractions. Not all publishers, for instance, publicize or clearly label papers they have retracted, or explain why they did so. And determining which author is responsible for a paper's fatal flaws can be difficult."



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  9. TopTop #7
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by infojockey: View Post
    I believe zero of what is reported in the mainstream media. Zero. This disease has been shamelessly politicized to the point that it is considered a means to attack Trump, blunt his economic gains by shutting down the economy, desensitizing the populace to accept police state regimentation, and create a climate of fear and hysteria that can be led like a puppy on a chain.
    that's on a par with blindly believing everything in the MSM. With less evidence to support it.

    two things can be true, facts can be used to attack Trump because he thoroughly deserves it. Giving him any credit for economic gains is another sign of faith.
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  10. TopTop #8
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    Here's some more info on Sweden from Politifact:
    https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-rate-without/
    {This is from April 17th - Barry }

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    Last edited by Barry; 08-19-2020 at 12:23 PM.
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  11. TopTop #9
    rossmen
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    Its pretty clear that although Sweden might not have done everything right... they have chosen a better course than every other nation, probably. Time will tell. Being a wealthy first world nation they were right on it with contact tracing and quarantine as well as excelent medical care. They chose not to close schools, the economy, or mask up.

    For the first time today I saw a reporter mentioning medical studies documenting covid immunity from exposure leading to herd immunity. Of course the news was then quickly dismissed as not peer reviewed yet and who knows how long it will last?

    In the battle between homosapians and covid19 it's clear to me that our defeat is inevitable. Let's accept it with grace. This is hard to do.

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  12. TopTop #10
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

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  14. TopTop #11
    socoexpat
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    It seems like this is kind of a pointless argument at this point. An incomplete data set and the picture is far from drawn.

    People want to use these cases as arguments for how government and societies should or should not act....

    But I'll tell you why I can't support what Sweden did. It is because- without any scientific evidence or even any data to suggest such an approach- they chose to let many die in the hopes of creating "herd immunity". And while deaths dropped recently (and more recently started ticking back up) there is little if any evidence thay have come anywhere near the ~60%+ levels needed for "herd immunity" (papers out in the past 10 days or so peg it at around 30% )
    And while there was some hopeful research in general about general immunity- including T-Cells, we've also seen in the past 48 hrs the first several cases of confirmed re-infection (and to be clear- there has been anecdotal evidence of this, but these are the first cases where the very expensive gene sequencing of the disease has been done on patients).

    It is undeniable that Sweden saw a massive death toll because of their approach. It's worth noting here- that like most countries the deaths were largely among the elderly. It's also worth noting that unlike most other nations - Sweden does not warehouse their elders in "homes" - the nursing homes that have seen outbreaks and been responsible for many of the deaths here and elsewhere. Their elderly died from covid in their homes, often outside of major population centers.

    And while I have zero evidence to support this, and it may be localized, one of my friends have lived over there for work for well over a decade. They told me that after the huge rise in deaths- despite government policies, people in their city started wearing masks, avoiding crowds, etc, etc. Make of that what you will.
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  16. TopTop #12
    Hotspring 44's Avatar
    Hotspring 44
     

    Re: In Sweden, Where There Was No Lockdown, COVID Cases & Deaths Have Slowed to a Trickle

    The Stat Page, (below the CDC at risk list):
    Statistics I used here are not all of what is on the pages I copied from and are sourced from:

    https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Sweden/United-States/Health#

    I am not into crunching the numbers or attempting to correlate the stats beyond what I can see without doing all the math etc. I am just saying that there are differences between populations in Sweden and the USA that need to be considered before going ahead and trying to copy what Sweden has done, (or not), about COVID-19.


    From what I can tell, there are things that stand out as some major differences that would have a far different outcome here in USA as is happening in Sweden if we were to do the same things as was done there.

    It seems to me that because of the health differences in the populations between Sweden and USA, the death rate would be higher here in USA than what it is in Sweden.

    Also, another factor is that I personally, for example, know a couple of people that have put off using medical facilities and doctors for crucial examinations that are needed and outpatient hospital visits because of the COVID-19 virus.

    I would not want to bet my or somebody else's life on the availability of emergency room space when there is a major outbreak which most certainly would occur from time to time.

    The comparison between the difference from people being required to wear a mask and practice social distancing in certain public places in certain particular known circumstances, and how it may be somehow extraordinarily burdensome, and people that have preexisting conditions that make them much more susceptible from dying from Covid-19 whose lives are more at risk than everybody else should not be forced into extreme isolation or even worse, be exposed simply because particular mindsets believe that wearing a mask is somehow going to harm them or destroy the Constitution, etc.

    The difference is quite stark and extreme, IMO.
    ... Of course, if one distrusts the CDC than the following 2 headers and links below them either doesn't matter or a pack of lies, etc.

    I personally do not believe that what the CDC has said so far regarding particular health conditions and risk factors that cause people to be at a higher risk of serious complications and death from COVID-19 is a pack of lies... ...Also the potential of long-term health conditions it may cause.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Anyway, the below quote box has the list that the CDC published of conditions that causes people to be at an increased risk of severe illness, complications and possibly death from COVID-19:

    Quote People of any age with the following conditions are at increased risk of severe illness from COVID-19:
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Below {removed, see stats at link below - Barry } are some statistics that I pulled up out of the web.
    I don't know how fact checked or peer-reviewed they are, etc., but accuracy seems to be pretty close from what I can tell, so I don't think it's a fake.
    Source: https://www.nationmaster.com/country...States/Health#
    Last edited by Barry; 08-26-2020 at 03:59 PM.
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