Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

[Barry]

so, barry, we trust that you and your children will be at the front of the line to get your vaccinations, right? jude

I'll probably wait a year for some of the bugs to shake out, just like any new technology.

[Jude Iam]

Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered...

Dr. Dolores Cahill

Dr. Buttar

Dr. Shiva

R.F. Kennedy Jr.

Del Bigtree

Dr. Judy Mikovits

James Corbett on Gates, etc.

Dr. Christiane Northrup

Dr. Zach Bush

Dr. Francis Boyle

Michel Chossudovsky

Interested in your response, Jude

I'll probably wait a year for some of the bugs to shake out, just like any new technology.

[Barry]

My NASA scientist friend and her brilliant IT husband have built the largest database of vaccine injuries and deaths.
Their son became autistic right after his vaccination.

Are they sure it wasn't the 5G transmitter that was installed down the street, or GMOs or pesticides, or Wi-Fi signals, or chemtrails or residential proximity to freeways, or maybe he ate some gluten (gasp!)?

Let's say that vaccines injure and even kill some people (which I could believe) but it saves 10 times that number. What's the right thing to do?

[caromia333]

YEP Barry many hazards in our crazy world. And everything is relative - like the 1.1 million children expected to die from the impacts of the lockdown - see Amy Goodman's report yesterday on this subject on Democracy Now.

All is relative.

But I would love to get stats on current vaccines produced by Big Pharma that have actually saved lives. Now that would be something to study.

Are they sure it wasn't the 5G transmitter ...

[geomancer]

Coincidence does not prove causation. There is one chance in 365 per year that autism symptoms will develop the day after a vaccination. What pray tell is the mechanism? Where, pay tell, are the *peer reviewed* statistical studies showing a higher incidence of autism shortly after vaccination? And I don't need no fucking YouTube videos, thank you very much.

... Their son became autistic right after his vaccination....

[Finell]

No regulatory authority in the developed world would approve a vaccine with anything close to a 10% mortality rate.

What is crazy about anti-vax conspiracy theories is this: If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice. In addition, adverse effects of vaccines (and all medications) must be reported to the national regulatory authority (the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S.). If warranted by post-approval data, the FDA will revoke a vaccine's (or other medicine's) approval. If adverse effects are limited to a specific population (e.g., individuals with chronic kidney disease), the FDA will take action to protect the vulnerable population.

Almost everyone in the developed world was vaccinated against smallpox. They did not die or suffer injury. Almost everyone in the developed world is vaccinated against measles, mumps, and rubella. These vaccine recipients are not dying in the streets. Millions upon millions of people are vaccinated against the flu each year. Because of the way flu viruses mutate, a new flu vaccine is developed each year. Millions of people do not die from it. Thousands of people do not die from it.

Fortunately for all of us—including, ironically, the anti-vaxers—most people are neither ignorant, stupid, nor gullible enough to believe crackpot anti-vax conspiracy theories.

[Finell]

I expect to be vaccinated as soon as a vaccine is approved, so my life can return to some semblance of normalcy. However, I will read the reports of the clinical studies and consult with my primary care physician before making my decision.

[Lilith Rogers]

Yes, Me too. Let's get back out there playing together and enjoying the REAL world. Enough of this virtual stuff. And--for those who don't want to get vaccinated--fine--if enough of us do--you'll be safe, too. I don't get the flu vaccine for that reason. Aloha, LIlith

I expect to be vaccinated as soon as a vaccine is approved,...

[podfish]

....Let's say that vaccines injure and even kill some people (which I could believe) but it saves 10 times that number. What's the right thing to do?

ok, maybe this is tangential, but... bird in the hand vs. one in the bush syndrome. There's a huge bias toward inaction if action has a hazard. Once you're getting to a 1-in-10 chance that taking an action might hurt you, even the fact that the inaction might hurt you a lot but is also about the same odds won't convince many to take the action. Note I don't say "take the risk" -- you're taking a risk either way -- but inaction is much more the default decision.

I think that's behind a lot of the emotional appeal of anti-vaxx. They pump the perceived risk, but really they're trying to explain logically their intuitive resistance to risky action vs. risky inaction. Smart people construct complex arguments like that for emotional reasons all the time

[Mayacaman]

...What is crazy about anti-vax conspiracy theories is this: If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice. In addition,...

Steve Finnell, Regarding the broad sweep of the trust that you so confidently invest in the so-called "F.D.A." -Did you know that the Food and Drug Administration began life as the 'Division of Chemistry' [Rockefeller] , and was later known as the "Bureau of Chemistry" [Rockefeller] long before changing its name to the F.D.A. ? Here is an informative 9-minute documentary that explains the Corporate-Fascist nature of the entity.

Furthermore, Perhaps it would be a point of Wisdom for us to to compare the use of Vaccines in the past with the abuse of Vaccines in the present. Jonas Salk was something close to a secular saint. It is true, Vaccines have saved many lives - in the past. It is a fact.

But since the Reagan administration, the state of accountability of the Pharmaceutical-Industrial Complex has become nil. Robert Kennedy, Jr. explains how and why the shift took place in this interview:

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: Robert Kennedy Jr. Destroys Big Pharma, Fauci & Pro-Vaccine Movement

[Mayacaman]

Finell wrote:
You probably mean well. If you have any scientific evidence to support your claim about colloidal silver, even from anti-establishment sources, please post it here so we can see and analyze it. And please do the same for the alleged benefits of 27 volts of DC current. Since you have no scientific support for your claims, your posts about it are, at best, a distraction for people in a time of great stress.

Steve Finell, do you just like to ask Questions, or can you actually study as well? You posed that Challenge (above) to me over on the “Acting responsibly about Coronavirus” thread back in March. Just four minutes before you posed that Question, Barry sent me a 'personal' email forbidding me - on pain of being "banned" - from posting any more on that thread. Fact.

So far, I have posted sixteen short articles on the thread “Electro-therapy, Colloidal Silver-Water, Baking Soda, & Herbs” – where Barry quarantined me, but so far, you, Steve Finnell have not deigned to utter a single comment – and neither has anyone else in this forum. You wrote: "please post it here so we can see and analyze it..."

But so far, not much analysis of the non-AMA-approved Medicine has been analyzed here, on WaccoBB. My point is this: There are - and have ever been - other modalities and other ways of healing (& curing) diseases besides the god-damned Petrochemical-Phamaceutical-Industrial-Complex "solutions" (i.e. for us to wait for a vaccine cooked up by "Big Pharma" and then dutifully line up and get our shots.)

Here @ WaccoBb - as in the rest of the media - the main thrust of the dialog focuses around the Coming of the Vaccine, to Save us. I have to seriously Question the resident ability of most of the posters here in this forum to actually do any research, to study, or even to do any serious reading at all…

O well. Perhaps it’s just a bad case of mass A.D.D. for grown-ups. It could even be like an epidemic. Yes, that’s it – an epidemic of A.D.D. for grownups.

Post Script:

Steve Finnell, if you do decide to read - and analyze - what I wrote on the “Electro-therapy, Colloidal Silver-Water, Baking Soda, & Herbs” thread, I would appreciate it if you would do the "analyzing" over on the "Coronavirus: Alternative Therapies" thread. -And this applies to everyone who might choose to follow suit. I am rather enjoying the Quarantine that Barry imposed on my "Electro-therapy" thread. Let's just say that it's my turf.

[Finell]

It must make you feel special to believe that somehow you know more about medicine and science than people who are educated and experienced in medicine and science. However, contrary to the familiar adage, ignorance in not bliss. When it comes to important matters, such as health, ignorance is dangerous.

I feel sorry for you.

Steve Finell, do you just like to ask Questions, or can you actually study as well? ...

[Mayacaman]

PLEASE DO NOT distract people from legitimate, scientifically sound advice concerning the threat of COVID-19 by recommending quack cures such as colloidal silver. There is NO evidence that colloidal silver will protect people against or cure COVID-19 or any other malady. Silver plays no role in human nutrition or health. On the other hand, Dr. Robb is qualified expert on coronaviruses, and his recommendations warrant consideration.

You probably mean well. If you have any scientific evidence to support your claim about colloidal silver, even from anti-establishment sources, please post it here so we can see and analyze it. And please do the same for the alleged benefits of 27 volts of DC current. Since you have no scientific support for your claims, your posts about it are, at best, a distraction for people in a time of great stress.

Finell wrote:
Mayacaman:
I am fairly new to WaccoBB.net. Do you actually believe this, or do you just post this stuff for amusement? Do you believe that a vaccination for the virus will contain a microchip?

It must make you feel special to believe that somehow you know more about medicine and science than people who are educated and experienced in medicine and science. However, contrary to the familiar adage, ignorance in not bliss. When it comes to important matters, such as health, ignorance is dangerous.

I feel sorry for you.

Finell wrote:
...I would add that an opinion about matters of scientific fact, by someone with no expertise on the subject and with no substantiation with scientifically rigorous experimentation or observation, does not count as information.

Incidentally, Steve, though my father, Philip James Evans, M.D. was a card-carrying member of the A.M.A., my mother, Marda Liggett Woodbury was an accomplished Research Librarian, and the author of many books. She graduated from Columbia with an M.A. in Library Science in 1948 at the age of 22. For the last fifteen years of her working career - from 1979 until 1995 - she was the Library Director at Life Chiropractic College West, in San Leandro. She built that Library; tripled it in size in the fifteen years she was there. Every book that was added to the collection was a book that she personally vetted and chose.

I was fairly close to my mother. We had many discussions about the two schools of medicine in America. She tended to favor the Dr.C. School, saying that on the whole, they had a better understanding and grounding in Anatomy, though she acknowledged that the A.M.A. produced good surgeons -something the D.C's did not practice. I also was fairly close to my (post-Freudian) psychiatrist father, in spite of our history, and had many discussions with him about Medicine, and went toe to toe with him on the issue of (A.M.A.) medical malfeasance in prescribing drugs - and how it was truly an ugly racket.

So, given my family -and my own personal- history Over the years I have learned a fair amount about Medicine – of Both of the still standing Schools of the Trade- here in Amerika: the D.C. & the M.D.. Much of what I have learned I learned by Osmosis, the rest in the School of Hard Knocks... Electro-therapy and the use of Colloidal Silver-Water are fine with the Dr.C. School of Medicine, But the A.M.A. -who have the upper hand (on account of Rockefeller support) decry the advocacy of such as "quackery" and the rival School {Dr.C's) as "Quacks."

Source

[amayon]

It must make you feel special to believe that somehow you know more about medicine and science than people who are educated and experienced in medicine and science.
...
I feel sorry for you.

Here's an article on the efficacy of colloidal silver with references. https://www.news-medical.net/amp/new...solutions.aspx

You're not really scientific Finell, just bitter and smug.

[Chauncey Gardner]

Lets say that you have no idea what vaccines do or if they save any lives anywhere. You could believe that vaccines might kill or maime people but you definitely believe that vaccines save people somewhere. You have no idea what vaccines can and cannot do and unless you do you are the least likely authority on the subject. Pretty sure.

Are they sure it wasn't the 5G transmitter that was installed down the street, or GMOs or pesticides, or Wi-Fi signals, or chemtrails or residential proximity to freeways, or maybe he ate some gluten (gasp!)?

Let's say that vaccines injure and even kill some people (which I could believe) but it saves 10 times that number. What's the right thing to do?

[Barry]

Lets say that you have no idea what vaccines do or if they save any lives anywhere....

What's the polio rate these days?

[Chauncey Gardner]

Jude and I were chatting on a number of these subjects and I mentioned that she should check this documentary out and so I share it with those who are hungry for the information. https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/everything-rich-man-trick/

It is time that everyone get caught up on what our country is up to and about. This documentary hits the information about our current situation right out of the ball park. Starting with ww1and 2 as a back drop the document unfolds the morbid details of our current future. Those of us who insist that everything is just fine and that we must always refer to the media and the government for our security and information alleys will need to finally pull up their big boy and girl pants after this three hour video.

The only bit I found in it that was off was the part about Kennedy having his head blown off by a sharp shooter in a drainage ditch. Author and long Time Radio show host William Cooper showed that the driver of the presidential limousine was actually the person who had stopped the limo turned around and shot Kennedys head off before pealing away. Sad all of it. But we must understand what it is that we are up against here. For those who wave it all off and cannot stop sucking down the ice cold Kool Aid will find this particular document distressing to say the least. If you can stomach all that then theres this.

'Crossing the Rubicon' https://newsociety.com/books/c/crossing-the-rubicon by Mike Ruppert. This amazing book certainly proves the assertions in the video though the two had not actually crossed paths as Ruppert was 'suicided ' several years ago.

Then to catch up on the last part of the documentary one can read Webster Griffin Tarpleys study of the 911 incident. "9/11synthetic terror made in the USA" https://www.amazon.com/11-Synthetic-.../dp/1615771115

For once you realize that there is certainly a leaden amount of trickery going on with these events a pattern emerges that will certainly inform even the most stoic of information ner-do-wells.

[Chauncey Gardner]

Historical data has proven that polio was actually conquered by the advent of hand washing and sanitation practices. Perhaps there is some other Vaccine that you can point to that is some how worthwhile Barry. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp

[Chauncey Gardner]

I am hoping to get Bill Gates and his children the first of the vaccines they are so keen on injecting into the population. Although Gates children have yet to be vaccinated for any of the childhood or adult diseases I am sure it will only help the sale and distribution of these products. As for people who advocate for vaccines. Go and get them get the boosters, you know you are late in getting those, get the flu shot get everything for your dog, for your children for your lovely wife and husband. Make sure you are all caught up.

But don't you ever tell me and my family or friends that they 'must' take your poison path . For if you and your people have ingested the poison and feel 'safe' from the dis-ease then there is no reason why I should feel uneasy for you. Either the vaccines work or they do not. If they do then you have nothing to fear from my family and friends. I expect that when you do get out of the doctors office from your vaccine you will report that all is well for you and your family....

[geomancer]

This is fucking gold-plated nonsense, and that's an understatement. Polio was made worse by sanitation, because when adults (FDR etc.) got it, it was much worse than it was for infants. Summer of 1954, I'm 14 years old, polio outbreak in the next town to the west (Richboro, PA), all the mothers freak out. No more swimming in the creek. 1955: Salk vaccine becomes available, no more polio. I was there, it was a godsend.
,

Historical data has proven that polio was actually conquered by the advent of hand washing and sanitation practices....

[Jude Iam]

Barry, I really am interested to know your response to my question.

Though it's only a sample of one, I want to know if exposure to the work of all/most the people I listed, easily available with a click, can NOT have a very significant impact in shifting someone from the usual consensual reality, airtightly established as the medical model via ostensibly western science.

Note that I like science very much, but have noticed the pattern of burning those who push against the currently accepted models. Especially if there's BIG money involved.

Here and now, money (BILLIONS OF DOLLARS) is pervasive throughout the system, in every conceivable angle, so that has to be looked at and weighed in, especially since it's usually invisible / behind-the-scenes to everyone outside the system. US is infamous for the most expensive system with the sickest citizens.

So, Barry, again,
what have you watched, listened to, read, considered of the list below, and (how) has it influenced your thinking?

Thanks, Jude

Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered....

[barfly]

Further, that’s the age that autism symptoms generally start.

Coincidence does not prove causation. There is one chance in 365 per year that autism symptoms will develop the day after a vaccination. What pray tell is the mechanism? Where, pay tell, are the *peer reviewed* statistical studies showing a higher incidence of autism shortly after vaccination? And I don't need no fucking YouTube videos, thank you very much.

[rossmen]

Adverse effects from vaccines are very difficult to report, and even more difficult to prove. The vaccine court system is set up this way. This is a system which protects vaccine developers and distributors from liability. This is not conspiracy theory. Its just the way the vaccine liability legal system is set up.

..In addition, adverse effects of vaccines (and all medications) must be reported to the national regulatory authority (the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S.). If warranted by post-approval data, the FDA will revoke a vaccine's (or other medicine's) approval...

[infojockey]

The attached PDF examines shortcomings in the methods by which vaccines are made and tested. This info is derived from public and official documents and testimony

[Chauncey Gardner]

What is crazy about pro vaccine people is that they cannot be satisfied with ingesting them for themselves their pets and over fed children. They want you to have it also. As it stands most people are hostile to having a needle put into their arm and if they had to get the pinch then you should too. Be that as it may vaccines are poison. Some people can take in poison and live. If it is small enough dose there is literally no effect. But when you mandate that a baby be injected with these poisons this is when we get into mischief.

Adverse effects from vaccines are very difficult to report, and even more difficult to prove. ...

[wisewomn]

Polio has been eradicated from the US since 1979. https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/polio-us.html

There are 3 countries where polio still occurs: Afghanistan, Nigeria, and Pakistan. https://www.contagionlive.com/news/n...9-up-from-2018

The global incidence of polio has dropped by 99% since 1988, when the Global Polio Eradication Initiative was instituted. https://www.contagionlive.com/news/n...9-up-from-2018

What's the polio rate these days?

[wisewomn]

Apparently, vaccines developed from human cell lines are much more likely to cause autism. Not so with vaccines developed from animal lines, which the body recognizes and rejects, thereby eliminating DNA disruption in cell linkages leading to autism. http://sonorannews.com/2017/07/03/va...mpt-liability/

Seems like the thing to do is to eliminate vaccines being developed from human cell lines.

[geomancer]

I finally got around to searching the article you linked to for *polio*. Polio is mentioned three times, money quote is here:

"A vaccine was also the solution for polio, which caused few deaths compared to many other diseases, but many cases of paralysis. For other diseases, though, vaccines mostly came along late in the game and mopped up what was left after improved sanitation and hygiene had done most of the work."

Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the history of polio -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_polio

Prior to the 20th century polio infections were rarely seen in infants before 6 months of age and most cases occurred in children 6 months to 4 years of age.^[19] Young children who contract polio generally suffer only mild symptoms, but as a result they become permanently immune to the disease.^[20] In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were being made in community sanitation, including improved sewage disposal and clean water supplies. Better hygiene meant that infants and young children had fewer opportunities to encounter and develop immunity to polio. Exposure to poliovirus was therefore delayed until late childhood or adult life, when it was more likely to take the paralytic form.^[19]

In children, paralysis due to polio occurs in one in 1000 cases, while in adults, paralysis occurs in one in 75 cases.^[21] By 1950, the peak age incidence of paralytic poliomyelitis in the United States had shifted from infants to children aged 5 to 9 years; about one-third of the cases were reported in persons over 15 years of age.^[22] Accordingly, the rate of paralysis and death due to polio infection also increased during this time.^[1] In the United States, the 1952 polio epidemic was the worst outbreak in the nation's history, and is credited with heightening parents’ fears of the disease and focusing public awareness on the need for a vaccine.^[23] Of the 57,628 cases reported that year 3,145 died and 21,269 were left with mild to disabling paralysis.<sup>[23][24]

It appears to me that you did not read the article carefully, and hence came to what I called a nonsensical conclusion regarding polio.</sup>

Historical data has proven that polio was actually conquered by the advent of hand washing and sanitation practices. Perhaps there is some other Vaccine that you can point to that is some how worthwhile Barry. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp

[Mayacaman]

Finell wrote:

"What is crazy about anti-vax conspiracy theories is this: If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice. In addition, adverse effects of vaccines (and all medications) must be reported to the national regulatory authority (the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S.). If warranted by post-approval data, the FDA will revoke a vaccine's (or other medicine's) approval. If adverse effects are limited to a specific population (e.g., individuals with chronic kidney disease), the FDA will take action to protect the vulnerable population.

Almost everyone in the developed world was vaccinated against smallpox. They did not die or suffer injury. Almost everyone in the developed world is vaccinated against measles, mumps, and rubella. These vaccine recipients are not dying in the streets. Millions upon millions of people are vaccinated against the flu each year. Because of the way flu viruses mutate, a new flu vaccine is developed each year. Millions of people do not die from it. Thousands of people do not die from it.

Fortunately for all of us—including, ironically, the anti-vaxers—most people are neither ignorant, stupid, nor gullible enough to believe crackpot anti-vax conspiracy theories."

Get that? - "If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice."

The public does notice. I suggest that you-all look into the vast documented Evidence - the miles and miles of accumulated footage of testimonies from the Mothers of Children who have been seriously and irreparably damaged by Vaccinations. To say, "If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice..." is beyond ludicrous. It is a lie.

Here's the "EVIDENCE" :

VAXXED !! ( 1 )

VAXXED !! ( 2 )

VAXXED TV
- (the Queue @ youtube)

[podfish]

What is crazy about pro vaccine people is that they cannot be satisfied with ingesting them for themselves their pets and over fed children. They want you to have it also..

it's not at all 'crazy'. You may disagree, but it's totally logical. Sure, if you personally are vaccinated it improves your immunity. However, the theory is that if an unvaccinated population remains they can serve as a host for the virus. Unless personal immunity is bumped to 100% it's not just a personal choice. A choice to be vaccinated is primarily a societal choice, which Americans are notoriously poor at making. Live free and die!