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  1. TopTop #271
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    ....So I challenge you to do both, without begging off with any excuses.
    Without that, your words are no more than neener neener - empty and hollow.
    Jude
    hey, are you dissing my neener neener post? I thought it communicated my position well, and you call it empty and hollow. Makes me feel about four years old again.
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  3. TopTop #272
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Cool so we get it, you guys are a bunch of adolescent boys with your pants down.

    Jude, mayacaman, infojockey, etc: are you or do you know anybody preparing for food shortages by growing and raising extra animals?
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  5. TopTop #273
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Raising extra animals. That's real. Food shortages. Right. You and the gun nut militia preppers. Cool, so we get it, you guys are a bunch delusional pre schoolers judging reality from a subjective fantasy world.
    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    ...Jude, mayacaman, infojockey, etc: are you or do you know anybody preparing for food shortages by growing and raising extra animals?
    Last edited by Barry; 05-31-2020 at 10:33 AM.
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  6. TopTop #274
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote infojockey wrote: View Post
    Raising extra animals. That's real. Food shortages. Right. You and the gun nut militia preppers. Cool, so we get it, you guys are a bunch delusional pre schoolers judging reality from a subjective fantasy world.
    You don't think this economic depression is going to create food shortages, and that being self-sufficient is important?

    I wasn't calling you an adolescent boy, infojockey, just the three douchebags who never make a valuable contribution - podfish, finell, geomancer.

    What is your picture of the next 18 months?
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  8. TopTop #275
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    ...blub, blub...blub, blub...
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  9. TopTop #276
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote Valley Oak wrote: View Post
    ...blub, blub...blub, blub...
    Yeah infojockey is someone whose opinion I respect because he can string two thoughts together, but if he thinks prepping is a mistake he's just another idiot like you
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  11. TopTop #277
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    Yeah infojockey is someone whose opinion I respect because he can string two thoughts together, but if he thinks prepping is a mistake he's just another idiot like you
    funny way to show respect. You're right, infojockey's good at expressing himself, but don't delude yourself. The only reason you (occasionally) respect him is because some of his ideas seem compatible with yours.
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  13. TopTop #278
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    funny way to show respect. You're right, infojockey's good at expressing himself, but don't delude yourself. The only reason you (occasionally) respect him is because some of his ideas seem compatible with yours.
    He can actually argue a point, which you have never managed to do in this thread.
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  14. TopTop #279
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    The lesson of Y2K taught me that portents of doom multiply the actual danger by a hundred, at least. That was a panic largely spread via private means online and was 90% occurring among the far right. Hillary's loss after virtually all the major news outlets said she was a shoe in told me that the mainstream news is not to be trusted again. The news media's role in panic mongering during the pandemic is being revealed as data on the actual infection and death levels and their demographics, comes to light in the aftermath. Not to be trusted.

    Most leftists have zero knowledge of the actual mechanics of bringing food to the markets and no sense of the utterly huge agricultural production capacity of the nation, let alone California. California alone could probably keep the entire world from starving to death. Agriculture is machine intensive and is good on social distancing, so did not suffer whole lot of shutdown - non-packaged/processed food production has been maintained through the pandemic. My take is that food supplies, dented only slightly, will be normal within 2-4 months. With fuel prices so cheap, food prices shouldn't rise, but who knows, the cartels use any excuse to squeeze a bit more bottom line out of the system to pay their stock holders.

    That's not the worry. The major worry, as I see it, is that smaller mom and pop business will fold, creating misery, increase of welfare rolls, and a reluctance of people to spend. Their customers will gravitate to the corporate chain giant mall shops which are monopolies. Monopolies are not capitalism, they are monopolism, oligopolies, wealth hoarding psychotics. The tendency of large companies or cartels of large companies to take over a market needs to be addressed with anti-price fixing regulation and the outlawing of interlocking corporate directorships.

    But such issues don't grab our sympathy for the wretched of the Earth, we don't even perceive that they cause the wretchedness in any detailed way. We just lump capitalism (the most productive economic system the planet has yet seen) in with monopolism (actual fascism, an analog to monarchy, which republican democracy fights against), and become Marxist crusaders. But Marxism, for all it's anti-exploitation rhetoric, is another form of monopolistic fascism with a dismal track record of blood and oppression. Frankly, it's championing in this day and age is a signal to me of mental retardation. Before Marxism, the hope of humanity was placed with republicanism. If I use the term "republican" or "republicanism", how many know what it actually means, why it came into being and what its role in history has been? Do me a favor right now and search Wikipedia for "The American Progressive Party". Lemme know what you find.

    On the individual level, people will tend to be smarter on how they spend their money and this may actually be a somewhat positive effect long term as people spend their money on what's important, not the fantasies and fetishes they are sold by advertising propaganda. People will also get out from under debt which is the largest single evil that is using this planet for a habitat. Debt is what funds the fascist Wall St. oligarchy. The destruction of debt should be the purpose of every radical with a conscience able to actually target the beast's brain.
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  16. TopTop #280
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote infojockey wrote: View Post
    The lesson of Y2K taught me that portents of doom multiply the actual danger by a hundred, at least. That was a panic largely spread via private means online and was 90% occurring among the far right. Hillary's loss after virtually all the major news outlets said she was a shoe in told me that the mainstream news is not to be trusted again. The news media's role in panic mongering during the pandemic is being revealed as data on the actual infection and death levels and their demographics, comes to light in the aftermath. Not to be trusted.
    there's that 'trust' idea again. True, the media is all about the squirrels. There's information to be gained from them. And danger not realized isn't danger that didn't exist. Y2K could have sucked. Hillary almost won. We're hearing about worst-case pandemic results, that would likely happen if mitigating actions weren't taken. There are plenty of places in the world, and in the U.S. where you get enough concentration to get a glimpse of how bad it could be.
    Most leftists have zero knowledge of the actual mechanics of bringing food to the markets and no sense of the utterly huge agricultural production capacity of the nation, let alone California. California alone could probably keep the entire world from starving to death. ... My take is that food supplies, dented only slightly, will be normal within 2-4 months. With fuel prices so cheap, food prices shouldn't rise, but who knows, the cartels use any excuse to squeeze a bit more bottom line out of the system to pay their stock holders.
    food access has never been limited by availability of food, at least in modern times. It's the economic system - not a cabal (maybe a cartel), but an inevitable outcome of the system's design. Capitalist conservatives are quite proud of the system they built, thinking it promotes individual initiative and responsibility, while rewarding the virtuous. Which is self-serving bullshit, its as crude a way to encourage initiative as pain is a way to alert you that you've been injured. But no, it's not going to come down without major changes.
    That's not the worry. The major worry, as I see it, is that smaller mom and pop business will fold, creating misery, increase of welfare rolls, and a reluctance of people to spend. Their customers will gravitate to the corporate chain giant mall shops which are monopolies....
    But such issues don't grab our sympathy for the wretched of the Earth, we don't even perceive that they cause the wretchedness in any detailed way. .... Debt is what funds the fascist Wall St. oligarchy. The destruction of debt should be the purpose of every radical with a conscience able to actually target the beast's brain.
    people are comfort-seeking and risk-averse. That's why they'll go to Applebees over a local diner when travelling. There's also Johnson's aphorism about the poorest white man... You're wrong about the eternal utility of capitalism, though. Money was a cool invention, private-property was too. They scaled ok for a long time, along with the idea of disproportionately rewarding a chosen leader, if you think the pharaonic system and its ilk have served us well. The price was heavy, though, and only in recent times has the idea of egalitarianism even gotten wide lip service. But, you gotta ration, so what else are you gonna do? Well, I don't think you can get there from here, but as a society we've got the tools to change. As long as people think that Bezos earned his money by doing something special, and people who don't 'earn' their food, lodging and health care deserve to suffer, we're screwed. It's those ideas that keep us where we are, not some nefarious group of people who could be displaced.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-01-2020 at 07:04 PM.
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  18. TopTop #281
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    I want to remind everybody that you can selectively unsubscribe from any thread.

    If you are getting individual emails for a thread you can stop them by clicking the “Stop Email Updates” button on the bottom of your email.


    You can also remove a thread from your digest by clicking on the “Website/Reply”button on a post from that thread in your digest. And then on the website, scroll to the top of the page and click on “Daily Digest” where it says Follow: Daily Digest” and select “No Email”


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  20. TopTop #282
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    well, we're making our point badly if all you see is that 'our minds are closed'. And sorry, but the fact that you're using this medium means you're subject to comments. Note the big button below -- this forum is a forum because it invites interactions. People post things; others respond. If you find the responses repetitive, sorry. Many of the posts here seem like rehashes of previous ones. I feel little inclination to react to most of them - it has to be a pretty egregiously incompetent source that you reference for me to challenge your citation of them. When a post makes a lazy dismissal of someone's point of view as 'blue-pill', or creates an imaginary back-story that explains the motivation of a poster, I do tend to want to reply. But I'm most interested in failures of logic. Which I would think you would actually want to respond to in kind. Now, if you don't want anyone but those in your bubble, I think you'd be better off with a podcast or a website without comments.
    Listen Peter, I am not a "red-piller". And I am not a so-called "conspiracy theorist". And I heartily resent the use of those terms to describe, denigrate, and dismiss what I have to say here at WaccoBB. Back in 2012 I left off posting here because Barry Chertov could not cease from his constant digs (@ me) and mockery along those lines. I had had enough, and I quit. I may do it again.

    So I completely understand and sympathize with your not wanting to be dismissed as a "blue-piller." I think that the whole bloody binary us vs. them game is bogus - except when it applies to the machinations of the "1 % ". The class war is real. That's a doctrine I have retain'd from the time I received my socialist catechism & communion from my little Jewish socialist grandma that went along with my potty training at the age of two.

    Soooo... When I used the terms "red-pill" and blue-pill" in my missive (above) I was using them somewhat sarcastically, tongue in cheek. -Same goes for saying that we, the "conspiracy theorists" -Barry's designation- have been "niggerized" here at WaccoBB. I am speaking figuratively. That's just the way it feels.

    [By the way, I have earned the right - and received express permission - to use the "N" word, from my dusky brothers down in Oaktown. I know that I ain't nothing but an old field negro myself in the scheme of the Global Plantation - which the spin-doctors euphemistically refer to as the "Global Village"].

    I suppose those of you who pride yourselves in being immune to "conspiracy thinking" don't really care to think about how it sometimes hurts, being continually on the receiving end of your insufferable "political correctness."

    -Because the only reason I have ever posted here at WaccoBB, has been to inform the public; to brighten the corner where I are; to be a contributing & paying member of society. Now if you'd like some feedback about a little coyote scat you recently dropped on this trail which contains samples (plural) of your own "failure of logic" Peter, I'll be happy to address this little gem of yours:

    podfish wrote:
    good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.

    In the first place, my own "perspective" - speaking strictly for myself - is not "drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources." Far from it. I'm the guy who posts screeds like the following, Remember ?

    :

    The folowing comes up on the Brave browser when one spins
    the following words
    through the DuckDuckGo Search engine
    :


    " id2020 , microchip, Bill Gates, patent, "


    Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar
    @ the foot of the page.

    Listen/
    Read/
    Watch



    -And that is my methodology, and "perspective", too. I actually practice what I preach, Peter. That is how I go about doing my own research, whenever it comes to analyzing any issue that I want to get to the bottom of. After I have determined a few salient angles of the issue - the subtopics one could say - I run those words through the Search Engine @ DuckDuckGo, using the Brave Browser, and I begin to plow through the pile.

    I read everything. This is what I call "mapping the elephant" -Because we are all blind, Peter- and one has to look at everything from all
    perspectives - the complete 360 degrees around the entire Subject-at-hand.

    It All comes up when one does a web search: left, right & center; establishment, "fact-checkers", left & right radicals, "peer reviewed studies", et cetera. Everything. After that - and very much during the process - I take mental notes. Sometimes (very often) I take physical notes also, with a pencil on yellow legal scratch pad paper. Then I work out the "contradictions" between what the various voices are saying / spieling using the methodology of the Four Ko-Tis of Buddhist Logic. (Good Stuff).


    Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:

    1. (If A is B), A is B
    2. A cannot be both B and not B
    3. A is either B or not B
    4. A is neither B nor not B

    NOTE:

    I wrote this post two days ago and would have posted it then, but Barry "banned" me for twenty-four hours, just as I hit the "Preview" tab. Evidently he does not like the way my mind works. His excuse? I was being "obnoxious".
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 06-03-2020 at 02:02 AM.
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  21. TopTop #283
    amayon
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    there's that 'trust' idea again. True, the media is all about the squirrels. There's information to be gained from them. And danger not realized isn't danger that didn't exist. Y2K could have sucked. Hillary almost won. We're hearing about worst-case pandemic results, that would likely happen if mitigating actions weren't taken. ...
    You again do nothing to address the idea being presented, that you are being lied to, that the "worst case pandemic" is a media-born hoax, that the ills you ascribe to capitalism are in fact due to monopolism and generated by a select few, and simply repeat that there is "not some nefarious group of people who could be displaced," with no real reference for this idea either. You do exactly what you accuse others of. And you sound like a broken record because you don't think, and so cannot meaningfully respond. You're more like guy with Tourette's syndrome.
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  23. TopTop #284
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote amayon wrote: View Post
    You again do nothing to address the idea being presented, that you are being lied to, that the "worst case pandemic" is a media-born hoax, that the ills you ascribe to capitalism are in fact due to monopolism and generated by a select few, and simply repeat that there is "not some nefarious group of people who could be displaced," with no real reference for this idea either. You do exactly what you accuse others of. And you sound like a broken record because you don't think, and so cannot meaningfully respond. You're more like guy with Tourette's syndrome.
    what? I deny it. that's something. gg.. tk..ga..
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  24. TopTop #285
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    So were you too among the throngs of protesters during the free speech movement and people's park? Maybe we even met some time as we were running around dodging cops and the military!

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    See my comment below:...
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  26. TopTop #286
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    I'm astounded at the bountiful time some of you regulars have to post these long screeds arguing and insulting each other! Armed combat of the mind! Fun fun fun!
    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    Debunking the Debunkers
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  28. TopTop #287

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Considering the state of the unions composition presently it seems like my family and friends have done the correct thing. We doubled our gardens, doubled our poultry and target practice with a variety of arsenals . It is certainly fool hardy to poke fun at the people who you will undoubtedly be asking for help when the chips are down. But with the hard heat of ignorance that runs your numbers my guess you would rather starve than be found wanting.
    We should start a thread on what people are doing to get ready for total lock down scenarios etc. As for those who think that the world is not subjective and that it is not run on fantasy just look to the ten year old mind that is running this country right now and tell me what part of this ass necks plan is not subjective or running on complete fantasy. Ill wait in the garden.. My Guinnea pigs are mowing the front yard.

    Quote infojockey wrote: View Post
    Raising extra animals. That's real. Food shortages. Right. You and the gun nut militia preppers. Cool, so we get it, you guys are a bunch delusional pre schoolers judging reality from a subjective fantasy world.
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  29. TopTop #288

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    I want to suggest that you do just that for this thread bub. You have done nothing to help ..


    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    I want to remind everybody that you can selectively unsubscribe from any thread....
    Last edited by Barry; 06-02-2020 at 02:27 PM.
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  30. TopTop #289

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    The information on Polio is there for anyone to read and has been there since the 1920s, hand washing , clean food prep areas, the advent of back water plumbing, and draining swamps where the fetid waters of towns ended up. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp..
    This is what brought polio to a standstill. no vaccine is as valuable as knowing that you should not eat your own or other peoples poop.
    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    ...What say Chauncey, any more thoughts on polio?
    Last edited by Barry; 06-03-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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  31. TopTop #290
    infojockey's Avatar
    infojockey
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Used to be - swim in a lake or creek, get polio. Now it's - swim in a lake or creek and get MRSA or Flesh Eating Disease.
    Last edited by Barry; 06-03-2020 at 12:52 PM.
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  33. TopTop #291
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    I'm astounded at the bountiful time some of you regulars have to post these long screeds arguing and insulting each other! Armed combat of the mind! Fun fun fun!
    Richard, if you think that my post - the one that you refer to in the link - was about 'arguing and insulting others', I must say, you missed the point. It was a Protest and a Demand for "Justice" {for those of us who are marginalized as "conspiracy theorists."

    It was a Demand for a level playing field here at WaccoBB, where our offerings are duly respected, and addressed on the merits of the information - instead of being mocked by interlopers in our ward who are slumming down here, trolling & kibitzing. Go back and read my post again. Better yet, I'll cite the 'bottom line' here:

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    ...Hitherto, Barry, our erstwhile Faifax-based moderator, has repeatedly demanded of me in 'personal' e-mails that I stop posting on certain threads. Evidently, he thought that I was incapable of "acting responsibly about coronavirus" -Or perhaps he just wanted to impose a little "social distancing' on this one. He has also moved my comments from the threads where I posted them back into the isolation of this "red-pill" ward.

    So I think I have earned the right to ask for Barry to respect the same rule that he imposed on me back during the time that he booted me out of the "
    Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread. I had more to say there - about how we-all should stock up on grains & foods that can keep; more about herbs, etc.

    The only time that I make it uptown into your blue-pill ward these days is to deliver news - as a news-boy. -And when I do that, I present it as a document that I have processed in Microsoft Word (TM) (damn that Bill Gates) and I deliver the paper straight to your door. I don't engage in trolling over there, in your 'hood. I is very respectful - like a good old field-negro s'posed to be.

    Mos' ob de time, massa Barry see fit to send my missives back here into the red-pill ward, but dat don't stop me none from doing what I consider to be my God-given duty: to warn all
    you west county honkeys about what's coming.

    Now if y'all want to seriously open up any of those mighty dangerous links that abound on this thread - or if any of you chose to engage in a dialog with me about some of the statements I post here - either my own words -or- the words of others - I welcome the chance to debate with you on whatever points you might chose to address. -For that is the nature of dialog. But to merely go "nanner, nanner" isn't.

    Bottom Line: You have all made your point - the same point. Your minds are closed. Now go away. You are cluttering up my thread and the whole red-pill ward with inane, stupid comments. Go away. Dis de Ghetto. You on de wrong side of the tracks. What you doing down heah?



    -The point being that We -those of us in this forum who have been designated with the hashtag "#Conspiracy Theorist" by Barry- have been put in a segregated neighborhood - the "Coronavirus Conspiracy" Ward. Now I can't help it if other folks keep coming down to our Ghetto to check out the action here - because, after all, this is where the action is. -But I would prefer if they came to read and make reasonable discourse, instead of slumming, kibitzing & trolling. That was my point, Dear old friend.

    Sincerely, Marko
    Attached Thumbnails (click thumbnail for larger view) Attached Thumbnails (click thumbnail for larger view) Expand  
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 06-03-2020 at 09:50 PM.
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  35. TopTop #292
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    So were you too among the throngs of protesters during the free speech movement and people's park? Maybe we even met some time as we were running around dodging cops and the military!
    People's Park for sure, it was my first arrest! I was a grad student at the University of Illinois during the FSM, but paid close attention. My first demonstration was picketing one of Gov. Nelson Rockefeller's model fallout shelter's that were touring NY state in 1961. A photo of my sign, which read "Are you a man of a mole?", made the front page of the Ithaca newspaper. The "shelter" was ridiculous, featuring two bunk beds and miscellaneous objects (a porta-potty! Coleman stove!) inside a semi-trailer. The "library" featured a bible (natch) and several Reader's Digest condensed books.

    Opposition to atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons was intense on the Cornell campus in 1961-62. My friends and I were organized as a chapter of the "Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy", a nationwide organization headed by Norman Cousins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Cousins), SANE was an unofficial liaison between JFK and Khrushchev when the test-ban treaty was being negotiated. Our chapter was too Left-wing for Cousins and we eventually were kicked out of SANE.
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  37. TopTop #293
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Quote Chauncey Gardner wrote: View Post
    The information on Polio is there for anyone to read and has been there since the 1920s, hand washing , clean food prep areas, the advent of back water plumbing, and draining swamps where the fetid waters of towns ended up. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp..
    This is what brought polio to a standstill. no vaccine is as valuable as knowing that you should not eat your own or other peoples poop.
    Here's a direct quote from the article that you linked to but (apparently) did not read carefully:

    "A vaccine was also the solution for polio, which caused few deaths compared to many other diseases, but many cases of paralysis. For other diseases, though, vaccines mostly came along late in the game and mopped up what was left after improved sanitation and hygiene had done most of the work."

    Chauncey, admit
    you were wrong on polio and move on.

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  39. TopTop #294
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Hi Marko! I don't know about Barry putting you in a "ghetto." Your posts seem to be on the regular site like everyone else's. Maybe I've missed something. But even in this post you sent here to show me how I was missing the point, you come across as argumentative and insulting, railing against those "interlopers in our ward who are slumming down here, trolling & kibitzing."

    I'm not criticising your points of view here or anyone else's on this site, Marko. I'm just pointing out that you and others here are putting an awful lot of time and energy into arguing and, in the process, insulting and putting each other down. You seem to be focused on railing against your victimization. You have every right to express those feelings and argue all you want. But you might consider looking more deeply into where all those feelings are coming from, dear old friend!

    --Richard

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    Richard, if you think that my post - the one that you refer to in the link - was about 'arguing and insulting others', I must say, you missed the point. It was a Protest and a Demand for "Justice" {for those of us who are marginalized as "conspiracy theorists." ...
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  41. TopTop #295
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"


    Richard Hoff, My old friend, I only spoke out once to that effect - that Barry has put us (hash-tagged #Conspiracy Theorists ) into a Ghetto or Ward of our own. This Ghetto is called "Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories." That constitutes the niggerization of independent research on the 'Coronavirus Crisis' that does not follow the party line of the Main Stream Media, and the "Fact-Check" sites that are subsidized by the tax-exempt foundations. Capische?

    Furthermore, I, personally do not like to engage in being "argumentative & insulting"; I am merely very weary of seeing "my thread" being trashed by arguments and the inane, off-subject comments of others. I would like to see this thread stay on topic, and proceed along the lines of intelligent, adult discourse about the (very serious) issues & items that I myself, and others have put on the table here.

    One of the purposes of 'trolling' is to deflect public attention away from the examination of serious data
    by focusing on minor points & engaging in trivial arguments about bs.
    * Everyone should know this by now.


    Now Barry - with whom I have a ( mutual ) love-hate relationship - has seen fit to boot me off other threads -where I was making legitimate, social contributions- and quarantine my comments into the "Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories" Ward. And I have stated my protest. Enough said. It is abundantly evident to me that the man has double standards.

    On the one hand, he boots me off the
    "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread - where I was trying to contribute, and was certainly not trolling. -And on the other hand, Barry himself has joined in the trolling & mockery of we, the so-called #Conspiracy Theorists here in this, his designated Ward for the weirdos, 'politically incorrect' & insane. Do you get my point, Richard? The legs of the lame are not equal.

    That is a fact, Richard, whether or not you have noticed it, or not. But I have experienced it, and I tell you, it does not "feel" very good. I have merely drawn attention to it, of late. I would like this thread to return to a level of talk & discourse where the people who post here will Be Civil, and not call other people "fools" - as geomancer, Richard Ely has repeatedly done here & in a private email to this one ( i ).

    If those three men - who are obviously intelligent, rational, & educated people - can engage in civil discourse here, on this thread and on other threads in this ward, I welcome the opportunity to debate or discourse with them.

    We do go back, Richard,

    Marko

    Bottom Line :

    Let's Stay on Topic: Coronavirus : "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"


    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    Hi Marko! I don't know about Barry putting you in a "ghetto." Your posts seem to be on the regular site like everyone else's. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 06-04-2020 at 11:19 AM.
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  43. TopTop #296
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Yes, Richard Ely certainly overindulged in his hostility there. I would prefer showing kindness and respect even for people you regard as fools.

    But can't you see the extremely hostile and insulting quality in your very post right here? You are ever the outraged victim! And your detractors are absolutely niggerizing you! You are pretty extreme, Marko, and I would love to see you take a fresh look at the outraged victim within you. I think this is a case in which it takes two to tango!

    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post

    Richard Hoff, My old friend, I only spoke out once to that effect...
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  45. TopTop #297
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Rereading this, it doesn't say why you were in Berkeley during People's Park, since you don't mention going to school there. I didn't either, but I chose to live in Berkeley because it seemed like the right place for me--and it was! I'm a bit older than you and had graduated from Reed College in 1961.

    Quote geomancer wrote: View Post
    People's Park for sure, it was my first arrest! ...
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  46. TopTop #298
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"



    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    Yes, Richard Ely certainly overindulged in his hostility there. I would prefer showing kindness and respect even for people you regard as fools.

    But can't you see the extremely hostile and insulting quality in your very post right here? You are ever the outraged victim! And your detractors are absolutely niggerizing you! You are pretty extreme, Marko, and I would love to see you take a fresh look at the outraged victim within you. I think this is a case in which it takes two to tango!

    You don't get it, Richard. What you perceive as ‘hostility’ is merely justifiable anger. I have longtime held my peace. Let me make this perfectly clear: I am not “extremely hostile” towards anyone. -And when I speak of being “niggerized” - it is in this Context:
    As I wrote: "...people who are tarred as "conspiracy theorists" should engage in a little “identity politics" and protest that they have become an oppressed minority. Calling someone a “conspiracy theorist” in America today is equivalent to calling an African-American a “nigger” in the South during Jim Crow, or calling someone a “Communist” in the paranoid political climate of 1950, at the beginning of the Korean War.”

    -Nor do I consider myself a ‘victim’ - at all. I am not looking for pity; don't do that; don't need it or want it. I am not in this for myself, and it is not about my own little ’outraged’ ego, Dr. Richard. Thank you very much.

    It's not about little old me, old chap - it's about Dr. Francis Boyle , Robert F Kennedy Jr., and Dr. Luc Montagnier, Richard, who have also been put into this African Ward with the rest of us darkies. -The better to be derided and marginalized, Richard, in accordance with the "Event 201" Playbook. [ Entre 47:00 - 57:00 ]

    I will concede that i am “angry” at the moderator of this site, Barry Chertov. -And that my Complaint with him is about the lack of a level playing field here @ Waccobb when it comes to examining all of the evidence concerning where the SARS-2/ Covid-19 came from, and what the “Plan” of the plutocrats is, with regards to all of that. -And the fact that any information that runs counter to the party-line of the main stream media and the fact-checkers is generally shunted over here by Barry Chertov into this designated Ghetto.

    Over the past ten years Barry has driven many independent, contrarian thinkers away from this forum; banning some, & driving others away on account of the way he flexes his muscles and snaps his whip around here, and savors his self-appointed role as Autocrat of the Bulletin Board.


    I suggest that you go back and study the
    thread that wildandinspired Susan started in early March:
    "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" and compare the difference between the way Barry behaved there - to the post-adolescent contempt he has shewn us here in the "Conspiracy" Ward.

    =However= Nobody can make me any more of an old field-negro than I already am, Richard. I embrace my negritude. Just ask Joshua Halpern, our mutual friend. When we greet we say, "Hey, Blood! =OR= "How's that old field-negro?"

    –We two, old Berkeley boys, conceived & born in The East Bay, eye-witnesses of the Free Speech Movement, habitués of the Mediterraneum Café, Peaceniks who dodged the canisters of tear-gas in ’68, radicals from our mothers breasts, both realize that we ain’t nothing but old field negros to the plutocrats who run the ol' Global Plantation.

    Furthermore, I am not “insulting” podfish /Peter & geomancer /Richard Ely. I am merely stating a fact : they have come down here into our nigger ward to slum and kibitz. & get this, Richard: I don't think that Peter/ podfish & Richard /geomancer are “niggerizing” me - & neither is Steve Finell, Esq. But they have been kibitzers. Peter and I occasionally give each other ‘gratitude’ -for we have certain points of agreement. He is obviously quite intelligent – though in mho his obvious Chompskyite biases frequently cloud his judgment.

    -I have dealt with Richard Ely before –for years. We are actually “facebook friends” Ha! He is merely full of himself, and is another example of how the Chompskyite Systems Analysis approach sometimes degenerates into self-righteous venom. Am I being “insulting” Dr. Hoff? No. I am merely stating a fact.

    Steve Finell, Esq., on the other hand is new to WaccoBB. And the fact that he made his appearance @ WaccoBB in mid-November of 2019 - when the CDC was recruiting employees - makes his presence here in this forum somewhat
    “questionable”, shall we say. So far, Steve Finell, Esq., has done nothing to dispel the impression that he has made on me: that he is a shill; a stringer detailed by the CDC to be the room monitor here @ WaccoBB. You may call that "paranoia" if you wish, nevertheless, to me it is plausible.

    -And as an old Berkeley boy, I have had a lot of experience in observing plants over the years. If Mr. Finell, Esq., thinks he can coax a lawsuit for libel out of my statements, he may. I do have something to lose: my land. But it would be interesting, and if it went to Court, the Defense would get ‘discovery.’
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 06-20-2020 at 12:44 AM.
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  47. TopTop #299
    Mayacaman's Avatar
    Mayacaman
    Supporting member

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    [TAKE TWO...]

    Knock, Knock, Peter/podfish, I’m talking to you… Because you wrote:

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    well, we're making our point badly if all you see is that 'our minds are closed'. And sorry, but the fact that you're using this medium means you're subject to comments. Note the big button below -- this forum is a forum because it invites interactions. People post things; others respond. If you find the responses repetitive, sorry. Many of the posts here seem like rehashes of previous ones. I feel little inclination to react to most of them - it has to be a pretty egregiously incompetent source that you reference for me to challenge your citation of them. When a post makes a lazy dismissal of someone's point of view as 'blue-pill', or creates an imaginary back-story that explains the motivation of a poster, I do tend to want to reply. But I'm most interested in failures of logic. Which I would think you would actually want to respond to in kind. Now, if you don't want anyone but those in your bubble, I think you'd be better off with a podcast or a website without comments.
    -To which I answered…
    Quote Mayacaman wrote: View Post
    Listen Peter, I am not a "red-piller". And I am not a so-called "conspiracy theorist". And I heartily resent the use of those terms to describe, denigrate, and dismiss what I have to say here at WaccoBB. ..I completely understand and sympathize with your not wanting to be dismissed as a "blue-piller."
    However – perhaps you have forgotten – you yourself once casually dismissed me as a “red-piller.” Remember?
    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    well, questions of fact really don't depend on the viewer's perception. Unless you agree with KellyAnn Conway, there isn't such a thing as 'alternative facts'. It's perfectly legitimate to question the conclusions of mainstream science, but it's not reasonable to expect to be put on equal footing. So being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense.

    Sure, put out a caveat that there are people who strongly disagree with the consensus view of the scientific and medical communities, and who have cunning or innovative suggestions about how to treat yourself or what they think has worked for them. But the topic of this thread, 'acting responsibly', seems to imply a focus on better substantiated factual information
    And I re-iterate: “…the only reason I have ever posted here at WaccoBB, has been to inform the public…to be a contributing & paying member of society. Now if you'd like some feedback about a little coyote scat you recently dropped on this trail which contains samples (plural) of your own "failure of logic" Peter, I'll be happy to address this little gem of yours:

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.
    In the first place, my own "perspective" - speaking strictly for myself - is not "drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources." Far from it. I'm the guy who posts screeds like the following, Remember ?


    The folowing comes up on the Brave browser when one spins
    the following words through the DuckDuckGoSearch engine:

    " id2020 , microchip, Bill Gates, patent, "


    Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar
    @ the foot of the page.

    Listen/
    Read/
    Watch


    -And that is my methodology, and "perspective", too. I actually practice what I preach, Peter. That is how I go about doing my own research, whenever it comes to analyzing any issue that I want to get to the bottom of.

    After I have determined a few salient angles of the issue - the subtopics one could say - I run those words through the Search Engine @ DuckDuckGo, using the Brave Browser, and I begin to plow through the pile.

    I read everything. This is what I call "mapping the elephant" -Because we are all blind, Peter- and one has to look at everything from all perspectives - the complete 360 degrees around the entire Subject-at-hand; the complete Elephant.

    It All comes up when one does a web search: left, right & center; establishment, "fact-checkers", left & right radicals, "peer reviewed studies", et cetera. Everything. After that - and very much during the process - I take mental notes. Sometimes (very often) I take physical notes also, with a pencil on yellow legal scratch pad paper. Then I work out the "contradictions" between what the various voices are saying / spieling using the methodology of the Four Ko-Tis of Buddhist Logic.

    -Because one must be open to “truth” from all quarters. To be able to do this, one must be ready to study, study, study. In the process of which, one shall verily encounter a multitude of lies and disinformation along the way. –All of which one must process.

    -And, in order to do that, One must exercise the use of the proper philosophical tools to sift out the lies from that which is Actual & Real. The word for Truth in the Koinonia Greek of the New Testament,ἀλήθεια, has the essential meaning: 'the uncovering of that-which-is' = essentially the Same meaning embodied in the concept of Buddhist Suchness

    So, What are the proper philosophical tools that one needs to keep in one’s mental toolbox? I suggest that folks look into the Four Ko-Ti's of Buddhist Logic, and the Phenomenological Method of Heidegger and Husserl – for they are essentially the same methodology / modality; one Eastern, one Western.

    Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:



    1. (If A is B), A is B
    2. A cannot be both B and not B
    3. A is either B or not B
    4. A is neither B nor not B


    Now, Peter/podfish, If you would actually like to have a conversation with this one ( i ) who initiated this thread, you may, and we can have a discourse about my ‘methodology’ on the level of adults. But if you prefer to ignore me and shine on my attempt to have a conversation with you, you ought to concede – in all honesty - that you have only come down into our ward to kibitz and to troll://

    -So which is it?

    O well, perhaps you unconsciously wish to retain your fixed idea that “the evidence [that we] find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources.” If that is what you wish to think, go right ahead.

    But I think that I have shown you to be wrong. But then again, if the tree falls in the forest, and there is no one around, does it actually make a sound? Perhaps not.
    Last edited by Mayacaman; 06-20-2020 at 07:30 PM.
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  48. TopTop #300
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

    Burning was largely reserved for heretical and obstinate theologians such as Giordano Bruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

    Galileo was a Natural Philosopher and, as such, was considered much less of a threat to Church doctrine. Jude, I'm not a monster; were it up to me, rather than burn him at the stake, I simply would have crushed the little finger of his left hand. I'm sure that would have sufficed to convince him of the error of his ways!

    Galileo spent the last 9 years of his life under house arrest, where he was secretly supplied with writing materials by his daughter. His final work "Two New Sciences" was published in Holland in 1638, a few years before his death in 1642 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_New_Sciences. If he had not been confined, it is unlikely that he ever would have gotten around to writing the book. The book summarizes his lifetime of work on moving bodies and materials, and became a standard European scientific text in subsequent centuries.


    Quote Jude Iam wrote: View Post
    ... You'd be the first step up to light the pyre to burn Gallileo and anyone else who disrupts your paradigm. ...

    You and your kind, arrogant and brutal, ...
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