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  1. TopTop #1
    Glia's Avatar
    Glia
     

    Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments on H

    Union leader Sara Nelson ripped former South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg for his comments on healthcare and labor Wednesday, accusing the 2020 Democratic presidential candidate of using divisive tactics and language for political gain and at the cost of workers.
    Buttigieg, in two tweets in English and Spanish respectively, suggested his so-called Medicare for All Who Want It plan would protect labor-won health plans, despite the fact that a single-payer system would render such plans obsolete.
    Nelson, the international president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO, took offense to the White House hopeful's use of union workers as a wedge in the healthcare debate.
    "Stop perpetuating this gross myth," said Nelson. "Not every union member has union healthcare plans that protect them."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sara Nelson @FlyingWithSara 15h
    This is offensive and dangerous. Stop perpetuating this gross myth. Not every union member has union healthcare plans that protect them. Those that do have it, have to fight like hell to keep it. If you believe in Labor then you’d understand an injury to one is an injury to all.

    Quote Tweet
    Pete Buttigieg @PeteButtigieg 17h
    There are 14 million union workers in America who have fought hard for strong, employer-provided health benefits. Medicare for All Who Want It protects their plans and union members' freedom to choose the coverage that's best for them.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Don't use unions to promote division," she added, "that's only good for the profiteers."
    In an interview with Common Dreams, Nelson expanded on the message of her tweets and the labor movement's place in the healthcare debate.
    "This is age old divide and conquer tactics and we have to call it out and reject the attempts to distract us," said Nelson. "Anytime the word 'they' is used with workers, it's a sign of union-busters at work."
    While Buttigieg was trying to use negotiated health benefits specifically as a wedge issue, Nelson said the union sees it differently—that "the value of negotiated benefits is important," not necessarily a fixed benefit by itself.
    And, Nelson said, the divisiveness in Buttigieg's remarks must be rejected.
    "I oppose any message that pits union members against non-union members," said Nelson. "We need to welcome workers to our unions. We need to work together to address this issue so everyone is protected."
    Other progressives took issue with Buttigieg's remarks and what was seen as an anti-worker undercurrent in the comments.
    Union negotiator Erik Strobl pointed out that Medicare for All would help, not hurt, labor.
    "Medicare for All would free up bargaining power for wages and the common good, and it would protect union members against a bad employer pulling healthcare during a strike," said Strobl. "Medicare for All is a gift to the labor movement."
    Media journalist Adam Johnson excoriated Buttigieg's remarks, calling them comments that would fuel "future rightwing attacks on both the frontrunner and socialized medicine for years to come."
    Buttigieg should understand that workers stand together and appreciate the benefits of universal healthcare, Nelson told Common Dreams.
    "The only pronoun that represents unionism and builds power is we/us," Nelson said. "All in."

    Author: Eoin Higgins source:Common Dreams
    https://portside.org/2020-02-12/age-...igieg-comments
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  2. TopTop #2
    thehonuohana
     

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    well, in somewhat related news, Sanders proxies have been attacking the influential Culinary Union in Nevada after they provided their 1300+ members with a one page sheet warning MAF would endanger their hard fought for healthcare (which by many metrics seems to be one of the best healthcare options in the state). AFL-CIO - another powerful union also chimed in to support the CU.
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  3. TopTop #3
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    Quote thehonuohana wrote: View Post
    well, in somewhat related news, Sanders proxies have been attacking the influential Culinary Union in Nevada after they provided their 1300+ members with a one page sheet warning MAF would endanger their hard fought for healthcare (which by many metrics seems to be one of the best healthcare options in the state). AFL-CIO - another powerful union also chimed in to support the CU.
    This is one of the ramifications of compelling people to switch to Medicare For All, vs inviting everybody to Medicare, and allowing them to choose. By compelling people you are providing something for people to resist against and complain about and vote against. If you allow them to choose (Medicare For All Who Want It) there's nothing to resist...the people who don't want it (at least currently) aren't forced to change against their will... and you still achieve universal coverage!

    After the Medicare for All Who Want It plan is up and running, and lots of people choose it and are happy... then is the time to have a winning vote to make Medicare For All universal.

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  5. TopTop #4
    Glia's Avatar
    Glia
     

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    A very likely scenario is that after a few years of "medicare for all who want it" -- formerly known as "the public option" -- is running and working well, the other private insurance and union plans will wither away through a process known as "rate strangulation."

    Having been a member of a union and the beneficiary of a union self-insured medical plan, I have some insight on this issue. My hunch is the real fear a few unions have with "medicare for all" aka single-payer is they will lose one of their best member recruiting tools. If you can get good coverage that is not connected to employment or union membership, why bother joining the union?

    A national single-payer medical coverage plan is the best thing for EVERYONE, including the people who are attempting to practice medicine in this country. IMO the fear-mongering of unions such as CWA is selfish and un-mutual.

    Kirsten

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    This is one of the ramifications of compelling people to switch to Medicare For All, vs inviting everybody to Medicare, and allowing them to choose. ...
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  7. TopTop #5
    rossmen
     

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    Another great example of a leftist circular firing squad. I'm most interested in a legal structure where good personal health choices are financially rewarded. It's like 2/3rds of our health care expenses? Why should the public pay for people to eat refined sugar crap and suffer from diabetes? I know lots of people who do this. Addicts don't get better from codependent behavior.
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  9. TopTop #6
    thehonuohana
     

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    Quote Glia wrote: View Post
    My hunch is the real fear a few unions have with "medicare for all" aka single-payer is they will lose one of their best member recruiting tools. ...
    So, unions will be weakened, blue collar workers will see more erosion of collective bargaining rights?

    And we really think the government can run health care? That it won't- under at least some permutations of president/congress result in reduced healthcare for women, minorities, LGBTQ, addicts, etc?

    I have always found it interesting that people always say we are the only major nation w/o some form of socialized medicine (though we do a bit w Obamacare)... no one ever discusses that all these countries are match a single state.

    But, this is all a moot point. We all know the battles to pass Obamacare- and the ensuing legal battles. But there is no way in **** congress is going to pass MFA.
    Last edited by Barry; 02-16-2020 at 01:14 PM.
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  11. TopTop #7
    Glia's Avatar
    Glia
     

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Rips Buttigieg Comments

    Quote thehonuohana wrote: View Post
    So, unions will be weakened, blue collar workers will see more erosion of collective bargaining rights?
    It would seem that is what the leadership (not necessarily the membership) of CWA and Unite Here 227 are thinking. However, this is an example of win-lose and scarcity mindsets. See Why Is Nevada's Most Powerful Union Turning on Bernie Sanders?

    Quote thehonuohana wrote: View Post
    And we really think the government can run health care? That it won't- under at least some permutations of president/congress result in reduced healthcare for women, minorities, LGBTQ, addicts, etc?
    A single-payer system is government PAID medical care, not "government-run" -- and there is a huge difference. This trope is a common fear-mongering bit used for decades by the insurance industry and Big Pharma. and yes, I think government is quite capable of implementing a medical care payment system, just as it has implemented Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Government works just fine when it is allowed to.

    Quote thehonuohana wrote: View Post
    I have always found it interesting that people always say we are the only major nation w/o some form of socialized medicine (though we do a bit w Obamacare)... no one ever discusses that all these countries are match a single state.
    Apparently you have not been paying attention because that observation is frequently made, especially with respect to the Scandinavian socialized democracies.

    Quote thehonuohana wrote: View Post
    But, this is all a moot point. We all know the battles to pass Obamacare- and the ensuing legal battles. But there is no way in **** congress is going to pass MFA.
    with Congress in its current form, yes, which is why the place to start is with the fundamentals: public campaign finance (something only Sanders and Yang have been talking about) and getting rid of the Electoral College.
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  12. TopTop #8
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    Quote thehonuohana wrote: View Post
    ...But, this is all a moot point. We all know the battles to pass Obamacare- and the ensuing legal battles. But there is no way in **** congress is going to pass MFA.
    Exactly! Even AOC recently admitted that MFA is unlikely to pass:

    Yahoo: AOC lowers expectations on Medicare for All, admitting Sanders 'can't wave a magic wand' to pass it

    "Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said Thursday that if Sen. Bernie Sanders were elected president, he still might not be able to get Medicare for All, his signature health plan, passed in Congress.

    “A president can’t wave a magic wand and pass any legislation they want,” Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., told HuffPost this week.

    While Ocasio-Cortez rarely tempers expectations when championing ideas like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal to fight climate change she helped author, she went on to suggest that under a President Sanders, a “compromise” might emerge on health care, even though she still considers Sanders’s bill the gold standard.

    “The worst-case scenario? We compromise deeply and we end up getting a public option. Is that a nightmare? I don’t think so,” she said. "


    From Barry:

    So if MFA is not going to pass, then the question becomes what's the strongest general election position, and what will position us best to achieve universal coverage via a public option?

    I think MFA is an unnecessarily polarizing option. I think it will turn off more people off (especially after the Republicans start fear mongering about it) than it will bring out extra support. Plus there are lots of congressional races where the Democrat will either not embrace MFA (because they know it will cost them votes in their district) or will lost because of their support. There is more public support for a public option than for MFA. Why command people to accept it as opposed to inviting people??! This is a time to accept the political reality rather the imposing the "right answer".

    After a public option is passed and accepted and embraced, then is the time that it will be politically feasible to move to MFA. Going to for that now will not be successful, and even makes a public option less achievable politically.

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  13. TopTop #9

    Re: Age Old Divide and Conquer Tactics: Union Leader Sara Nelson Rips Buttigieg Comments o

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    Exactly! Even AOC recently admitted that MFA is unlikely to pass:
    I think Trump has warped peoples views of the Presidency...even though he has failed to accomplish many of his key pillars...you wouldn't know that from his words. AND... the Dems are in a different space then the Repubs. While many R congress critters could safely cave to Trump- the same is not true for Dems- where far too many seats lie in red or pink districts.

    I just keep hearing "Bernie's going to do this" "Bernies going to do that". Hello people... no he is not- because he can not. There's this thing called the constitution? This thing called the congress that actually makes the laws?

    Many months ago- I said Trump would win a 2nd term. I stand by it. We are headed towards a contested convention. No Democrat is likely to win the electoral votes. A candidate will be brokered and chosen. If it's Bernie his supporters will stay. If not- many will go to Trump. Others won't vote. Many other dems won't vote. If it's someone else...we'll see... most Dems just want to defeat Trump- but several candidates will loose crucial votes from the black and hispanic community, the religious vote, etc..

    And let's not forget- all signs are we are headed towards a recession. And while the Dems have largely focused on domestic policy... we have the pending truce/withdrawl in Afghanistan. The Iran situation. Venezuela. Brexit. China (and Home Kong which has been overshadowed by the Coronovirus). Saudi Arabia (which still hasn't been held to account for the gruesome killing of the WaPo journalist). Israel...who looks to be annexing land even while their leader is Indicted...

    I give up. I'll leave you with the words of Lennon/McCartney

    you say you want a revolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world
    You tell me that it's evolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world

    But when you talk about destruction
    Don't you know that you can count me out
    Don't you know it's gonna be
    All right, all right, all right

    You say you got a real solution
    Well, you know
    We'd all love to see the plan
    You ask me for a contribution
    Well, you know
    We're doing what we can

    But if you want money for people with minds that hate
    All I can tell is brother you have to wait
    Don't you know it's gonna be
    All right, all right, all right

    You say you'll change the constitution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change your head
    You tell me it's the institution
    Well, you know
    You better free you mind instead

    But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
    You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
    Don't you know it's gonna be
    All right, all right, all right
    All right, all right, all right
    All right, all right, all right
    All right, all right
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