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  1. TopTop #1
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Please boycott conservatives' businesses.

    A recent study revealed that 90% of Republican voters feel that Trump is doing an excellent job as president. This is tragic. And we have to put a stop to it or we will have that lunatic, racist, criminal, misogynist in the White House for another 4 years at the helm of the most powerful country in the world. We simply cannot let that happen and we have to take serious measures in our personal lives in order to make sure that we put an end to Trump's presidency.

    When you buy something, your dollars act like votes. By doing business with an establishment owned and operated by conservatives, you are financing Trump and the Republican Party at large. Conservative business owners everywhere, not just here in Sonoma County, take the money we give them to help finance Republican candidates, including Trump, helping to guarantee their reelection.

    To name just one example of many, the Whole Foods owner is a massive conservative who is staunchly against healthcare for all. By shopping at Whole Foods we are financing the Republican agenda. We are ensuring the continuation of the demise of our planet Earth through horrible public policies that worsen Climate Change and empower Climate Change deniers, such as president Trump, who asserts that it is a "Chinese hoax."

    I know that this is a difficult request to make but if we are concerned about our communities' needs and the future of the planet, we must make big sacrifices and take stern, serious measures. Republicans in office all over the country, not just in Washington, are taken stern and serious measures everyday against all Americans, not just you and I. They don't care about you and I, or the environment, only their pocketbooks at everyone's expense.

    Thank you.
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  3. TopTop #2

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    90% is a pretty high approval rating. Can Republican voters all be so wrong about a lunatic? Supposing that 90% of Democrats thought Trump was a lunatic, what would make them correct? What determines Trump’s lunacy? Is it all the positives the country is immersed in? Is the Left’s emotion clouding the facts?
    Question, if a person stops patronizing an establishment, does the owner really know the reason his business declines? For all he knows, his business practices are the reason.
    Btw, there are Democratic candidates who are against Medicare for all. What to do with these office holders?

    Climate change. Been happening since the beginning of time. Question is, how responsible are humans.

    GLOBAL WARMING IS THE BIGGEST FRAUD IN HISTORY - Dan Pena https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0sY...dex=112&t=178s

    Thoughts for consideration.
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  5. TopTop #3
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Amazon is now running Whole Foods. What's your feeling about Jeff Bezos?
    Also, do you have a list of better-known businesses that are owned by Conservatives?
    I agree with you that Conservatives are all about money and self-interest. However, a petition or write-in campaign directed at a specific business's practices and announcing a boycott until those practices are changed, would be much more effective, IMO.
    Quote Valley Oak wrote: View Post
    Please boycott conservatives' businesses....
    Last edited by Barry; 07-23-2019 at 03:02 PM.
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  7. TopTop #4
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    90% is a pretty high approval rating. Can Republican voters all be so wrong about a lunatic? Supposing that 90% of Democrats thought Trump was a lunatic, what would make them correct? What determines Trump’s lunacy? Is it all the positives the country is immersed in? Is the Left’s emotion clouding the facts? .....

    GLOBAL WARMING IS THE BIGGEST FRAUD IN HISTORY - Dan Pena https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0sY...dex=112&t=178s

    Thoughts for consideration.
    yes, they can all be so wrong. Duh. His lunacy, to use the technical term, is determined by observing his actions, listening to him speak, and contrasting with a sane person. I almost never hear anyone defend Trump except by saying you can ignore much of the evidence you see - instead you're supposed to be impressed by who he chooses to fight with, or the fact that his shallow statements seem to suggest he's in favor of something that his apologists also favor. His intellectual and tactical weaknesses are immediately apparent, though some say his strategies are actually really gonna prove to be effective in the long run. Trying to tie the causation any of these 'positives' to Trump's actual policies is a fool's errand. But Gorsuch... is about all you get.

    And wow, Dan Pena has figured out the hoax, but all the rest of the reputable scientists are either too dumb or too corrupt to see it? Maybe 90% of them are wrong too, I guess, because sure as hell 90% of Republicans are.
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  9. TopTop #5
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    I know you trumpies don't care, but here's a simple example of what I'm talking about. There's nothing ambiguous about this, nothing to say that Trump's brilliance is being misunderstood by the MSM who's out to get him. I mean, of course you can say that but only by incredible intellectual contortionism. And yeah, it's a side issue, but it's completely illustrative of the man. There are similar examples galore, and I can't say there are any compelling counter-examples.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.c831b7e064c9
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  11. TopTop #6
    SonomaPatientsCoop's Avatar
    SonomaPatientsCoop
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote Valley Oak wrote: View Post
    A recent study revealed that 90% of Republican voters feel that Trump is doing an excellent job as president.
    I would like to see a source for this, as the highest polling numbers I can find from legitimate polling agencies has had his "approval" rating among Republicans hovering in the mid 60's . (And worth noting - approval rating is not the same as saying they would vote for him again).


    But beyond that- this thread is exactly what's wrong with this country. Let's boycott "them"...because "they" are ignorant, evil, "insert adjective here" .

    I don't give a ....... whether you are conservative, liberal, or independent. Whether your atheist, buddhist, muslim, christian, or jew. The color of your skin Your gender (or gender identity...or lack there-of).

    I know many conservatives who I consider far better people then many liberals I know. And vice versa.

    Sigh...and this is why, Trump will win again. His overall polling is below 50%, but NYC and the left coast, along with many of the younger generation- will push a Democrat the majority of the country can not and will not back. Trump will, again, loose the popular vote and win the presidency. Because we are so focused on the fractures with "them" we don't even see that the fractures are even worse among "us" ....
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  13. TopTop #7
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Good points all, SPG, but you left out Russian meddling in the upcoming elections.

    Quote SonomaPatientsCoop wrote: View Post
    ...Sigh...and this is why, Trump will win again. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 07-24-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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  15. TopTop #8

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    What information do you have that indicates that Russia's meddling actually had any effect on the outcome of the 2016 election?

    Another perspective might be: if the DNC had not meddled in their own primary, Sanders would have been the nominee. By all polling indications of the time, which I believe you cited, he would have beat Trump in the general. And by the way, polls are showing the same outcome for 2020 in a Sanders v Trump race.

    To get back on point of this thread, I believe that boycott is one of the most powerful tools that we have at our disposal. Unfortunately we don't use it frequently enough. It's as though we refuse to flex our muscle. Instead we desperately try to convince the "monster" to change its colors. Perhaps the real culprit is our own refusal to self sacrifice. How many people do you know who are well aware of the despicable labor and business practices of Amazon yet, in spite of that, have every justification in the book as to why they still use them?


    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    Good points all, SPG, but you left out Russian meddling in the upcoming elections.
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  17. TopTop #9
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    There's been plenty written about ongoing Russian meddling in our elections, Rustie. I'm surprised you missed it. Most recently, Mueller mentioned it in his testimony yesterday:

    "WASHINGTON former special counsel Robert Mueller, in quiet and occasionally halting testimony, warned Congress on Wednesday that Russia is still interfering with American democracy and offered some sharp criticism of President Donald Trump.

    “They’re doing it as we sit here, and they expect to do it in the next campaign,” Mueller said of the Russians, during roughly six hours of highly anticipated testimony before two House committees about his investigation of Russian election interference and Trump’s possible obstruction of justice."


    I agree about the DNC self-sabotage during the last election and the polls then showing a Sanders win over Trump in 2016. Frankly, I would not be surprised if the same thing happened again in the upcoming 2020 election, I'm sorry to say.
    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    What information do you have that indicates that Russia's meddling actually had any effect on the outcome of the 2016 election? ...
    Last edited by Barry; 07-26-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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  19. TopTop #10

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    I didn't ask what information you have regarding Russia's meddling. I asked what information do you have to indicate that the said meddling had any effect on the outcome of the election.

    Mueller's report does not address any resultant effect or impact of the meddling, only that it happened. In fact he was asked that very question during his testimony and his response was that he could not speak to that as it was not within the scope of his investigation.

    I have not seen any evidence indicating that Russia's efforts actually impacted the election results. Russia's meddling, in my opinion, is an excuse for the failings of the Democratic party and the Mueller investigation serves as an excellent distraction.

    I think we would better serve the progressive efforts to change the paradigm if we shifted the conversation from Russia, Mueller and Trump and instead addressed the fact that the Democratic party has been moving farther and farther to the right, disenfranchising more and more people. The party establishment no more represents social, economic or environmental justice than does its counterpart. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors that goes into keeping us beholden to our team but at the end of the day the masses are still struggling to feed, house and clothe their families and the environmental crisis is at its zenith.

    Rather than signing on to vote blue in the general regardless of who's in the seat, as many are pledging to do, we might want to consider that the DNC and the GOP are functionally two sides of the same coin. It might not be in the best interests or the common good of humanity and environment to consider our vote in the upcoming 2020 primary as not particularly crucial to the framing of our future.


    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    There's been plenty written about ongoing Russian meddling in our elections, Rustie. I'm surprised you missed it. Most recently, Mueller mentioned it in his testimony yesterday:

    "WASHINGTON former special counsel Robert Mueller, in quiet and occasionally halting testimony, warned Congress on Wednesday that Russia is still interfering with American democracy and offered some sharp criticism of President Donald Trump.

    “They’re doing it as we sit here, and they expect to do it in the next campaign,” Mueller said of the Russians, during roughly six hours of highly anticipated testimony before two House committees about his investigation of Russian election interference and Trump’s possible obstruction of justice."


    I agree about the DNC self-sabotage during the last election and the polls then showing a Sanders win over Trump in 2016. Frankly, I would not be surprised if the same thing happened again in the upcoming 2020 election, I'm sorry to say.
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  21. TopTop #11
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Well, Rustie, I have not made it a point to go looking for published info on the tallied results of Russian meddling, if there are any, but you certainly are free to do so. You could start here: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...tion-for-trump However, I have spoken to several people who claimed to be Independents or Dems who voted for Trump because they, like you and me, were sick and tired of the invertebrates posing as Democrats and wanted to shake things up. Some of them were also swayed by the relentless outlandish output about Clinton (Pizzagate, anyone?) the Russians posted on Facebook, etc. Russia has been forced to remove a lot of it from FB and other sites (only because the feds forced FB to do so) but you can be sure they're working on ways to get around it and it will happen again. It's a mistake to underestimate the importance of this. If a lie is told over and over, many people begin to believe it: they think where there's smoke, there's fire. And FB is/was a hugely important source of info for many people.

    I also would not be too surprised to learn that Putin has the goods on other pols besides Trump and that is why the Repugs are giving him free rein.

    I urged many long-time Dems in 2016 to vote for Sanders in the primaries and if he lost there, they could vote for Clinton later. They liked Sanders but were sure he could not beat Trump, despite the fact that almost all the polls said he had a better chance of beating Trump than Clinton did.

    You might be interested in this article: https://www.theodysseyonline.com/why...for-jill-stein

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    I didn't ask what information you have regarding Russia's meddling. I asked what information do you have to indicate that the said meddling had any effect on the outcome of the election.
    ...
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  23. TopTop #12
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Conservatives have been boycotting businesses for years:

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    Conservatives Boycott Nike For Supporting Colin Kaepernick


    Oregon small business owner fed up with liberals


    Conservatives Threaten To Boycott Netflix After Obama Deal



    MAGA Supporter Creates App To Determine "Conservative Safe Space" Businesses


    Conservatives Boycotting Nike


    Starbucks facing boycott threats


    Conservatives Boycott Willie Nelson Over Beto O’Rourke Support


    Conservative Boycotts Girl Scout Cookies, Blames Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez


    Boycott Right-Wing Businesses?
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  25. TopTop #13

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    "the Democratic party has been moving farther and farther to the right, disenfranchising more and more people. The party establishment no more represents social, economic or environmental justice than does its counterpart. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors that goes into keeping us beholden to our team but at the end of the day the masses are still struggling to feed, house and clothe their families and the environmental crisis is at its zenith."

    Rustie --
    I've been hearing from many that the Democratic party is moving far Left. Moderates displaced by Progressives. And now the AOC Socialists want to displace the Progressives. Do you really feel that the Democratic party is moving right?
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  27. TopTop #14
    gypsey's Avatar
    gypsey
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Wow. I don't know Jeff Bezos well enough to know whether he is a "massive conservative" but the previous owner was a Big Oil friendly libertarian and that didn't stop Sebastapolians from shopping in droves.

    Regarding whether I choose to shop at businesses owned by conservatives, in my experience "conservatives" like "democrats" and even "liberals" come in a wide range of POVs. What I hope they all share is our country's core values which includes freedom of ideas and thought.

    I will continue to spend my dollars in my community where ever good service and quality are offered, and save my ideology for the ballot.

    Quote Valley Oak wrote: View Post
    Please boycott conservatives' businesses....
    Last edited by Barry; 07-29-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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  29. TopTop #15

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Certainly, if I wanted to, I could research the veracity of your assertion that the Russians impacted the results of the 2016 election. However, since it's not one of my talking points I don't feel compelled to substantiate the claim.

    I absolutely agree with your premise that if you repeat something frequently enough over an extended period of time people will believe it to be true. The overstated sentiment that Hillary's loss was likely because of the Russians, is a case in point.

    Political gossip, media complicity and public participation provide the momentum to keep the machine powered. The confluence of these elements has had tremendous results in directing our attention away from the fire while we stay focused on the smoke. It has also been a very successful tool in shepherding us to vote against our own best interests. Your friends, who in 2016, liked Sanders but were afraid he couldn't beat Trump, are a perfect example of this. And here we are again, powering the machine, instinctively repeating the political gossip - America doesn't want Universal Health Care, Tuition Free College or Bernie Sanders in the Oval – despite the fact that polls indicate otherwise.

    My point is that we need to choose our battles. I for one don't consider Russia to be the primary threat to our democracy. Apparently neither did our Democratic leaders, until it suited them. As far back as 2014 the Obama administration received Intel that Russia was building a disinformation network that could be used to interfere in Western democracies, including the U.S. They had already breached media organizations, lobbying firms, political parties, governments and military organizations.

    In August 2016 the intelligence assembled had reached “critical mass” and Obama was warned by CIA director John Brennan that Russia was, without a doubt, attempting to intervene in the election. Apparently Obama felt the breach of our election system by a foreign state was insignificant as he took little to zero action when informed of the threat.

    Five months later, in December after the election, Russian meddling suddenly became important. The public was informed, an investigation was launched and since then we have been captivated by the Russian threat to our democracy.

    Meanwhile on the domestic front, during the 2016 Democratic primary, there was a significant amount of questionable behavior from inside the party.

    In New York, a critical primary state, voters suspiciously disappeared from the rolls. In Brooklyn alone, Bernie's hometown, there were over 100,000 voters “mistakenly” purged. In the end Hillary's NY win was considered excessive as compared to insider expectations and the exit polls.

    Additional shenanigans included Bill Clinton's Super-Tuesday visits to various Massachusetts polling stations. Challenging election laws to say the least, his actions deserved greater scrutiny than they received from the media, the DNC and ultimately the public. Inside facilities, during polling hours, he was glad-handing and back-slapping with voters. Outside polling stations, again during polling hours, voters could find him with a megaphone thanking “those of you who are supporting Hillary Clinton”. In my opinion it would be a hard case to make that he was not violating election laws. But in the end, we gave him, Hillary and the DNC a pass.

    And lest we forget, though it appears we have, Donna Brazile's findings that exposed clear violations of campaign finance laws in the fund-raising deal between Hillary's campaign and the DNC. Long story short, the DNC was broke, in debt and needed a $2 million loan. The Clinton campaign came to the rescue and arranged the loan in exchange for complete control of the party, including funding distributions.

    It's interesting that part of the Russian meddling consisted of a cache of stolen emails posted online pointing to these very unethical campaign strategies and financial agreements between the Clinton campaign and the DNC. That particular foreign assault on our election was not spreading lies and gossip, it was uncovering an ugly truth. Why and how did the facts reveled become less important than the messenger of those facts? My guess, it was the political gossip machine at work directing our attention to the smoke and setting us up to be later burned by the fire.

    As I see it, we have a serious domestic problem and it's not limited to the GOP. I agree, it's unwise to underestimate the importance of foreign interference in our elections. However, I consider the importance of domestic interference in our elections, by our own governing bodies, as equally unwise to underestimate. Further, I wholeheartedly believe that our internal election fraud, perpetrated by both parties, deserves more attention than it appears to be getting in light of Russia's meddling.

    Deep systemic change, in my opinion, is desperately needed. The window of opportunity would seem to be open wider than it has ever been. I hope we don't blow it by underestimating the importance of this primary and the deceptions of the DNC, the GOP and the media.
    Quote wisewomn wrote: View Post
    Well, Rustie, I have not made it a point to go looking for published info on the tallied results of Russian meddling, ...
    Last edited by Barry; 08-08-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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  31. TopTop #16
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quite right and well said, Rustie. Let's also not forget the discrepancy between the exit polls and the actual vote tallies in a few key states (whose names I forget now).
    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    Certainly, if I wanted to, I could research the veracity of your assertion that the Russians impacted the results of the 2016 election. However, ...
    Last edited by Barry; 08-08-2019 at 11:50 AM.
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  33. TopTop #17
    american dream's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    - and, of course, Hillary didn't exactly lose the election, as she won the popular vote (not fully counted) by somewhere between 1.5 million and 2.5 million votes.
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  35. TopTop #18

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    Rustie --
    I've been hearing from many that the Democratic party is moving far Left. Moderates displaced by Progressives. And now the AOC Socialists want to displace the Progressives. Do you really feel that the Democratic party is moving right?
    With all due respect, your comments read straight from the scripts of both establishment party narratives. In actuality it's the electorate that is moving farther left. As the populist movement takes hold, the party leadership ramps up the talking points and fear mongering telling us that the Socialists are trying to take over. This is exactly what you've expressed in your post. It all sounds strikingly like Trump's rhetoric, which I would call right of center to say the least.

    One doesn't need to look far to find examples of the party establishment desperately trying to hold onto its right-leaning, pro-corporate policies. When the midterms brought us a few new progressive faces, the party leadership immediately began scrambling to protect its old-guard. AOC, who beat the entrenched conservative Crowley, was the first target. As early as January 2019, not even one month after she was sworn in, Democrat lawmakers began looking for someone to run against her in 2020. Rather than acknowledging and respecting the voice of their constituents, Democratic leaders wasted no time in their efforts to gain back their conservative contingent.

    Not at all in the spirit of Democracy, let alone left-leaning, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) also went into action in response to the House upsets in the 2018 midterms. Borrowing a page from the authoritarian playbook the DCCC established its new blacklist rules. The end game; to squash any future challenges to party-line incumbents. Many of the House Democrats, including Speaker Pelosi, were in full support. Effectively the party leadership is choosing to align with machine politics rather than allowing fair competition with a new generation of leaders seeking office.

    Mirroring right wing talking points, the party leadership continues to reject Sanders' version of Medicare for All and Tuition Free College, despite the fact that polls indicate an average of 70% of Americans are in favor of these proposals. And while we sit in the cross-hairs of a climate crisis Nancy Pelosi ridicules the Green New Deal. Sounding very much like the Trump administration, she sarcastically refers to the resolution as the Dream New Deal.

    Let's not forget Obama's Blue Dogs and Clinton's Welfare to Work program. There is ample evidence, going back to the mid 80's with the founding of the DLC, to support the observation that the Democratic party has been moving farther to the right.

    In summary, to answer your question, yes I really feel that the party is moving right. Or perhaps better stated, is continuing its push to maintain its long established right leanings. I'm guessing that when you reference the many you speak to who suggest the party is moving far left they are perhaps commenting on the party base rather than the party leaders. Either that or they are parroting the Republican narrative.

    That having been said, with the seating of our newly elected progressive House Reps the left is certainly gaining a foothold. Hopefully the tide will turn but it is, without a doubt, an uphill battle.

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter whether you identify either party as right, left, center, conservative, moderate or liberal. The majority of our citizenry are struggling to survive. Thirty million people are still without health care, the Federal minimum wage, at $7.25 per hour, has not increased since 2009 and we have been experiencing unprecedented catastrophic climate events with no indication of relief. Our current direction, regardless of what you call it, doesn't seem to be getting the job done. As I've previously stated, in my opinion, deep systemic change is desperately needed.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-10-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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  37. TopTop #19
    rossmen
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Rusty of course you're right, you have more info and attention than anyone else on wacco. But the third party possibility? Not gonna happen in 2020. Once again we choose between two parties. If the demos, choose like biden, would you vote?

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    With all due respect, your comments read straight from the scripts of both establishment party narratives. In actuality it's the electorate that is moving farther left. As the populist movement takes hold, the party leadership ramps up the talking points and fear mongering telling us that the Socialists are trying to take over. ...
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  39. TopTop #20
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    ...Mirroring right wing talking points, the party leadership continues to reject Sanders' version of Medicare for All and Tuition Free College, despite the fact that polls indicate an average of 70% of Americans are in favor of these proposals. And while we sit in the cross-hairs of a climate crisis Nancy Pelosi ridicules the Green New Deal. Sounding very much like the Trump administration, she sarcastically refers to the resolution as the Dream New Deal.
    I agree with your observations to a large extent, and I expect we'd both be happy if the same politicians were in fact to take over. But I think this claim illustrates where I part from your view. Two things here - I don't think it's true that 70% agree with MFA; instead, it's a 'public option' that's overwhelmingly popular. And the other is the characterization of the Democratic leadership. As you said earlier in your post, the populace is moving further to the left, but not that far (at least yet). And it's of course true that the DCCC is more conservative than its members, attempts to protect incumbents, and isn't wild about having new representatives with different agendas. I think that's kind of, duh, what do you expect? A part of Pelosi's job is to help develop the next generation, but the biggest part is to deal with today's political challenges. I don't think it's obvious that her ideal policies are that much different than yours - but she certainly differs in her willingness to push for them now.

    That doesn't mean this kind of criticism isn't necessary, because they do need to be pushed, but this assumption that those in power actually have their hearts in the wrong place and are the enemy because of that seems wrong. When you see the resonance that the Republican's claim that "people just want free stuff, and the dems want to give it to them" has with so many people, it should give you pause about how we're going to implement progressive goals.

    The same people who disdain some imaginary others for wanting a handout will vociferously defend their Social Security payments as something they've earned; many of them think Trump earned what he has. Until things like universal access to college are seen in the same light as Social Security, those people will often reject politicians who propose them. That's the definition of 'voting against their own interests'. People always think they're voting in their own interests. The trick is changing their thinking by how you frame your goals. If you can't do that first, you can't win.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-12-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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  41. TopTop #21
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Am I correct in thinking that democratic socialism and socialized medicine is simply the norm in Europe and Canada? Aren't we the eccentric outliers? Why is this point not emphasized in political discussions in the United States, in order to counter the Republicans' dire warnings about the dread threat of Socialism, making it sound like totalitarian Communism?

    Quote rossmen wrote: View Post
    Rusty of course you're right, you have more info and attention than anyone else on wacco. But the third party possibility? Not gonna happen in 2020. Once again we choose between two parties. If the demos, choose like biden, would you vote?
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  43. TopTop #22

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    Am I correct in thinking that democratic socialism and socialized medicine is simply the norm in Europe and Canada? Aren't we the eccentric outliers? Why is this point not emphasized in political discussions in the United States, in order to counter the Republicans' dire warnings about the dread threat of Socialism, making it sound like totalitarian Communism?
    Socialism is abhorrent to most citizens. Idea time, let's call it "Democratic" Socialism.
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  45. TopTop #23
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    Socialism is abhorrent to most citizens. Idea time, let's call it "Democratic" Socialism.
    define "most". Some line from Princess Bride comes to mind, about that word not meaning what you think it does.
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  47. TopTop #24
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    But you are not answering my questions.

    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    Socialism is abhorrent to most citizens. Idea time, let's call it "Democratic" Socialism.
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  49. TopTop #25

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    define "most". Some line from Princess Bride comes to mind, about that word not meaning what you think it does.
    51+%
    "as you wish"
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  51. TopTop #26

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote occihoff wrote: View Post
    But you are not answering my questions.
    Please state them again young Padawan.
    Last edited by Barry; 08-15-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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  53. TopTop #27
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Find out who contributed to who in Sebastopol. Click website link below:
    Open Secrets
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  55. TopTop #28
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    I'm having trouble finding the year that I want in the the link below. Anyone know how to use this website well enough to find the election year and/or the locality?

    Thank you ahead of time!

    Quote Valley Oak wrote: View Post
    Find out who contributed to who in Sebastopol. Click website link below:
    Open Secrets
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  56. TopTop #29

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    Socialism is abhorrent to most citizens. Idea time, let's call it "Democratic" Socialism.
    It seems to me, but this is just my interpretation from your discourse, that you are not in favor of a country that addresses the needs of all people equally and empowers the people rather than corporations and the elite ruling class.

    You don't say that directly, I'm guessing because that would be considered an abhorrent social outlook. Instead, following the right wing narrative, you intimate your disdain for Socialism, in any form, and by association for Sanders. You then point to everyone else, our citizenry, as the ones who have the problem with a just and equitable society.

    Socialism by definition is a social system in which the means of producing and distributing goods are owned collectively and political power is exercised by the whole community.

    Democratic Socialism is rooted in the importance of Democracy. That is to say that any social and governmental changes are determined through voting and fair elections. Democratic Socialism is a philosophy that both the economy and society are governed democratically to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

    Democratic Socialists of America was founded in 1982, hardly a new idea and far from a mere PR campaign to change public opinion about a word.

    Give it a name, call it what you want, but at the end of the day if one is so frightened by words that they are incapable of hearing meaning, definition and intent, then intelligent conversation is rendered meaningless. For those who fear Sanders, having bought into the GOP, DNC and media efforts to demonize him as an existential threat to the American way, perhaps some clarity from the candidate himself might help assuage the paranoia.

    What democratic socialism means to me is having, in a civilized society, the understanding that we can make sure that all of our people live in security and in dignity.” Bernie Sanders
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  58. TopTop #30
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: Please Boycott Conservatives' Businesses

    Quote Rustie wrote: View Post
    It seems to me, but this is just my interpretation from your discourse, that you are not in favor of a country that addresses the needs of all people equally and empowers the people rather than corporations and the elite ruling class.
    we'll see if anvil responds directly, but what I hear from the right is the fear that 'addressing the needs of all people' means taking from me and giving to people who won't pull their own weight. There's a weird disconnect on their feelings about the elite - respect for some, since by winning at having acquired power, they've proven their fitness; disdain for others who want to impose un-American values; fear of others who are running things behind the scene.
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