Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

[vlondi]

Do you think $350-$500 too expensive...

It sounds expensive, but it also depends on the quality of rooms. Those prices sound closer to a rather nice hotel room in a metro city and not a small town.

[Dustyg]

"I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city"

What does this mean? That AirBnB rentals in Sebastopol are a problem, possibly deflecting guests from staying in a grand, new, expensive hotel? The largest number of AirBnB hosts are now older women; most are retired and cannot keep up with the ongoing expenses of living here in Sebastopol. I've been her 40 years and have seen, just since late 90's, water rates go up over 200%....and more....For many of us who have attended lots of City Council meetings, have stood up for and marched in our parade for the kind of Sebastopol the town folks want, etc., we are the ones who will be driven out if we can't rent out parts of our homes to guests, who would like to 'live' in the little town while they visit, rather than stay in a hotel room.

It's been a lot of pluses for all of us. What is the problem for you?

I do like most of the drawings I've seen of the building. Hopefully they aren't changed much (as often happens between concept and construction) and the aesthetic of the hotel is representative of the drawings. I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city.

[Hollyanna]

Most studies conducted by the travel and tourism industry show that the typical Airbnb customer (especially in a non-urban area like ours) is unlikely to stay in a hotel rather than an Airbnb. They're looking for a different type of experience. Here's a link to a study released yesterday that states "[airbnb's] lower occupancy and price point has prevented it from materially hindering hotel-room demand, hospitality research firm STR said...Airbnb's peak days (weekends) differed from that of hotels (mid-week), and that the two accommodations sources often served different markets."

So, it doesn't look like this hotel will have much impact on Airbnb, either way. What's going to impact Airbnb is the county cracking down on unpermitted uses and requiring the purchase of a $750 license.

[Dustyg]

Thank you Hollyanna: I agree with you. I was wondering what the person who posted the comment I quoted meant by her remark? There are two different sets of permit requirements for AirBnB--the county fees and fees for operating inside the city limits of Sebastopol The City of Sebastopol has not gotten it's act together to make it clear and reasonable to obtain the proper permits to operate. I've tried to get this going for two years, but have been unsuccessful. Wondering if there is a bias against AirBnB's inside the city limit? I think it's a great idea myself, dg.

...So, it doesn't look like this hotel will have much impact on Airbnb, either way. What's going to impact Airbnb is the county cracking down on unpermitted uses and requiring the purchase of a $750 license.

[rossmen]

Your fears are real. The drawings are a chimera, carefully perspective to hide the hightfull truth. People will scream when the steel goes up, even more than cvs. The rooms now are pricey, 3-600/nite, and look at who the developers cater to, how much are rich wine tourists willing to pay? Airbnb will look good in comparison for travel shoppers with modern savy. We will find the consequences of becoming a 1% party town. The maker spaces will be gone.

I do like most of the drawings I've seen of the building. Hopefully they aren't changed much (as often happens between concept and construction) and the aesthetic of the hotel is representative of the drawings. I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city.

[deepresto]

I agree w/rossmen; the hotel will be much taller and make more of an impact than we think. Hello, $300- 600 are rich people hotel rooms! I worked on the Plaza in Sonoma in the '80's when it was still a functioning town and I saw the same thing happen there, and in Healdsburg when they put in their big hotel on the plaza. Those towns are now both caricatures of their former selves and exist as adjuncts to the wine tourism industry. Tourism is a Bad Deal for local folks. My heart breaks to think my groovy little town is the next Healdsburg.

[nicofrog]

WOW; I's surprised how little opposition there is for this;

Its like OK; well, our govt. is gone ... (nyne!!,then T. Rumphasaurus ) we cannot resist the steel clamp industrial Barlow architecture a sort of faux "community" space, CVS VADER , and now well phuque it who needs a town square with soul and dignity, just roll up the limos,pile on the money, and what? maybe helicopters to get in and out of town on a weekend? or we could go like walnut creek,and just build a double decker freeway so people can get directly to Bodega without bothering the tourists! (just think of the good homeless camping below!! ) oops wait I don't live in Sebastopol any more,none of MY bz .... but waiting in LINE sure gets old on hwy12. :( when I came here in 1998 I remember the old timers sitting in front of "Food for Thought"(wf's ) saying "this town has lost it's character" I thought they were wrong~~~~~~~ hmmm...

[Laguna Farm]

WOW; I's surprised how little opposition there is for this;~~~~ hmmm.

I hear ya, friend. At the same time, I think with this issue it just feels good to either be "for something" or at least not opposed to it. I did raise a flag at the irony of a boutique hotel replacing a tractor supply business, but the ag community was farming underwater all winter AND spring, so I think the point was lost. Anyway, I hope we love the hotel and it adds something positive and beautiful to town.

[nicofrog]

So, we're no longer a small town. When did that happen? ...

Another funny simple factor the SUN will take a good hour or two longer to rise in the park !
Say, maybe that will cut back on vagrants there! go Ho Tell !

[beshiva]

all it's going to add are higher rents, displaced persons, and let's here it for west county robbery- oh, i mean,
snobbery

I hear ya, friend. At the same time, I think with this issue it just feels good to either be "for something" or at least not opposed to it. I did raise a flag at the irony of a boutique hotel replacing a tractor supply business, but the ag community was farming underwater all winter AND spring, so I think the point was lost. Anyway, I hope we love the hotel and it adds something positive and beautiful to town.

[jesswolfe]

I honestly don't think anyone really cares about what I have to say about this hotel, or any development in town. Each new tourist trap means another reason for me to avoid town entirely. And I live in town. But I'm not rich. I'm not a land owner. I can't afford to live here. I have no use for a hotel that caters to people who don't live here. I'm never going to use it. I'm frustrated by the proliferation of very low wage jobs to cater to folks who don't live here (or do and have lots of money to afford it). Low wage jobs that will keep people homeless, or force them to commute from long distances to get here.

It's hard to believe that we are progressive when we don't take care of each other. A hotel will not benefit my neighbors or me. Low wage jobs don't benefit the people who currently can't afford to live here. People who have lived here for years are being priced out of our home.

How does this hotel, or the other development proposed, really actually benefit this entire community? Not just the developer?

Jessica
www.daughterofthediviners.com

[luke32]

I appreciate your well expressed concern

One way the hotel and the Pine Grove project might benefit you would be by generating tax revenue for the City. Tourists like to shop and tourists at a hotel in Sebastopol would be likely to walk the streets looking at all the neat things to buy. And additional sales tax revenue could be used for projects such as the Ives Park redo. This is one reason why it might make sense to delay the Pine Grove feasibility study until after the hotel is built and we can get a better idea of how much more foot traffic there will be for new retailers.

Yes, I know its tourism "stuff". But every increase to tax revenue is helpful.

Why we might even be able to afford another $350,000 payout for lawyers if another dastardly project like CVS happened along.

I honestly don't think anyone really cares about what I have to say about this hotel, or any development in town. Each new tourist trap means another reason for me to avoid town entirely. ...

[santoshimatajaya]

i'd rather live in a town
whose values are geared towards meaningful, natural lifestyle and community
than money oriented options
that stem from tourism and shopping

does not sound beneficial, healthy, worthy

just more material minded consumerism

that's not Living
that's not Life

that's not true to our True Natures
our Creativity
our Caring about one another and the land
our productiivity according to Natural Law
where Joy and Authenticity abound

where problems are solved in ways that truly benefit quality of being Alive
in sinq with Nature, others, animals

~my take

[jesswolfe]

I hear you. However, I would actually like to shop in the town I live in. I don't think that's unreasonable. I pretty much end up avoiding the traffic, or can't find a parking spot close enough to go to shops like Rosemary's Garden (I'm disabled so walking long distances is a challenge). We've seen the Barlow go in, but frankly, what did we gain from that? Is there anything you can point to that can show me? And I don't shop at CVS anymore because the store doesn't usually have the things I buy (which is kind of weird). What was the benefit of that? Can you point to anything that can show me where my dollars are going?

I think that's the big problem with the logic here. Every single time, we are told, it's ok. There will be a benefit. Really, there will be. Trust us. But what we get is more traffic. If those tax dollars from the already existing new development was here, how come Ives Park isn't already being worked on?

Jessica
www.daughterofthediviners.com

I appreciate your well expressed concern

One way the hotel and the Pine Grove project might benefit you would be by generating tax revenue for the City...

[JayS]

I have lived my whole life here. Sexton Road and Cunningham Road are my family roots. Sebastopol is lost. Never to be found.

[nicofrog]

so do you support this because you are a contractor? or a local merchant? I do not support it because I live the "atmosphere"of the town the gentle quiet of what at least used to be a funky country town .nice little square where folks come and relax and enjoy music,food,people they recognise and may even know.... Your hotel turns that into a zoo. period.with a WALL blocking the morning sun . I dont think "Ives" needs a redo,just some better gardeners. Redo sounds like more boondoggles contractors and paving.

maybe bigger fancier restrooms? until we see tax used sensibly,more tax is not so exciting.

...One way the hotel and the Pine Grove project might benefit you would be by generating tax revenue for the City.

[tommy]

The sea that we all swim in is capitalism. Like fish in the water, we often are not aware of the economic system. It's about money, making money, making more money, buying & selling, prices & wages, inequality, desire... etc...

Observations such as "I have no use for a hotel that caters to people who don't live here" (isn't that what a hotel is for?)... "low wage jobs that will keep people homeless" (that's not a reality based sequitur, as most homeless don't have jobs) ... or "force them to commute long distances" (no one's forcing anyone to drive to a job)... are not true but illogical string-alongs.

I know what you're saying, however. But I'm pointing out the illogical nature of your string-alongs, because your argument breaks down into a rant, when looked at clearly.

The people who are building and will operate the new hotel will pay employees as little as possible, as that will enhance profit. That's the way capitalism works. It will benefit the community by bringing tourists here, who'll spend money at the hotel, and local restaurants & shops, paying the various taxes... instead of all the money going to Healdsburg.

This is the way our economy works. No magic here. There are winners & losers. California is a pro development state - which contributes to our healthy economy. There are places where they're not building hotels like this - probably in parts of Lake County, the boonies of Mendocino, little towns in the prairies of Kansas and Nebraska. Would you want to live there? Probably not, because it doesn't have the juice, and the appealing population of West County. But guess what: the appealing nature of this place cannot be separated from it's vibrant economy, and all the things associated with that, such as a downtown hotel.

I honestly don't think anyone really cares about what I have to say about this hotel, or any development in town. Each new tourist trap means another reason for me to avoid town entirely. ...

[santoshimatajaya]

I agree with Nico one hundred percent.

Ives is Lovely. Redo is wasted energy and money and will disrupt and over gentrify a sweet natural beauty~ we don't need modern or fancy. Let's put resources into areas where there is Real Lack and Real Need. Let's assess our Values and Not Go the Way of the World. Let's go the Way of Benefitting Humanity via What is Natural, rather than What is ManMade, Man-Take-Over, Man and his/her overdoing materialism and the need for more monetary security than is necessary. Let's build what builds People from the Inside, which is not Consumerism. It is Nature of Land, Animals, Nature of what it means to Live a Peaceful Harmonious Life Within and Without. Rolin's idea of a Park and moving the Hotel to a further away spot not congesting and blocking the middle of town, creates a larger gathering spot for more Community Events, Community Creativity and Liveliness. Things for people of all ages to attend year after year, month after month. Like a garden these events create a more rooted, richer knowing of one another, things to look forward to, participate in. Soil, a Venue, to Create in, Gardens, Performances, Rituals, Farmers' Market, Music, Dance, etc. Yes, it's on the other end of the Spectrum, cause Society lays down cement on the soil, builds Cement into the Sky and learns how not to be on the Earth with the talents of living that we naturally have inside~ we can not cave to this strangeness. we can take the path not often, not typically chosen.
And that will make all the Difference

so do you support this because you are a contractor? or a local merchant? I do not support it because I live the "atmosphere"of the town the gentle quiet of what at least used to be a funky country town .nice little square where folks come and relax and enjoy music,food,people they recognise and may even know.... Your hotel turns that into a zoo. ...

[jesswolfe]

Have you been homeless?
Many do have jobs.
Have you looked to rent an apartment? Not just a room? I am luckily in Burbank housing. I've looked at moving. It costs more than twice what I pay to get an apartment the same size, which is usually not available because the occupancy rate is very high. If I want to move, I'd be downsizing to just one room in a shared house.
I do know how capitalism works. Do you know why people become homeless? Do you realize just how easy it is for normal every day people to lose everything? If you think anything is trickling down you are dreaming.
I know it sounds like a rant. It's very easy to project onto people things you have no clue about. I've often seen it on threads here. The stigma of low paying jobs. The stigma of the homeless being categorized as just drug addicts, mentally ill, dangerous, dirty people no one wants around. Apparently you don't see the families often displaced, trying to get enough money for food. Have you ever stopped and asked those people at the side of the road asking for money? I have. Because I know how degrading and shamefilled it is. Have you ever hugged any of them? I have.
And how about the reality of finding a job that's not near where you live and trying to find transportation to get there. Ever try to use our buses to get to work? If you are lucky to have a car, you have to figure out how to get gas for it. Gas isn't cheap. Just try driving from Petaluma to Santa Rosa for work. It's very difficult when you have very little.
Have you been poor? Do you know what it's like to realize you are being priced out of the town you live in.
Do you know what it's like to open your refrigerator and have it be empty? Not knowing how you will make something for your child out of just beans? I have.
Do you know what it's like to pay all the bills and have a tiny amount left about the 12th of the month that is supposed to buy food? I do.
I'm writing from experience. You might want to have a heart felt open conversation with actual low income people who live here. You might learn something. I spent a year being homeless. And it's an incredibly difficult (and expensive) way to live. You might want to stop judging and get actual information. Not stringing along false, non reality based information.

And yes, I'm seriously considering leaving this area. As much as I love it, reality makes it a huge chore every month. Just because this how it's always been doesn't make it right, or healthy for our community.

Jessica.

The sea that we all swim in is capitalism. Like fish in the water, we often are not aware of the economic system. ...

Observations such as... "low wage jobs that will keep people homeless" (that's not a reality based sequitur, as most homeless don't have jobs) ... or "force them to commute long distances" (no one's forcing anyone to drive to a job)... are not true but illogical string-alongs. ....

[JulieJess]

We've seen the Barlow go in, but frankly, what did we gain from that? Is there anything you can point to that can show me?

>>>>>pointing to Community Market and its ample easy-access parking

[Shepherd]

The sea that we all swim in is capitalism. ...

There are different kinds of capitalisms. We are experiencing brutal capitalism. It is my opinion that the American Empire is coming to an end. My hope is that the values of the American Republic and the Statue of Liberty will remain as we implode, possibly into separate entities, like the Soviet Empire did. Instead we are besieged by the denial of the right to vote to people of color and discrimination against women, people because of their religion, gender choice, country of origin, etc. Everything that lives dies.

America has lost wars against small, weak countries for years--Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Afghanistan, and Iraq. So what does our military do? It threatens strong countries--like Iran, N. Korea, China, Russia, Pakistan. Then it arms our police with military weapons to threaten our people. We over-rank the power of brutal capitalism and military power. We arm terrorists all over the world. One push of a button that launches a nuclear weapon ends it all.

It's time to wake up and see what is happening in our beloved Sebastopol in a larger picture. We may be able to protect ourselves, but not by denying what has been happening for over half a century now.

Ranting, which my friend Tommy criticizes, has its merits. As a former Communications professor, we would teach people how to rant in our college classes. The Climate Protection Campaign even has periodic ranting contests, where humor is valued. Please help me find the humor in our dire situation.

...There are places where they're not building hotels like this - probably in parts of Lake County, the boonies of Mendocino, little towns in the prairies of Kansas and Nebraska. Would you want to live there?...

In terms of Tommy's reference to Kansas and Nebraska, I graduated from the University of Kansas and from high school in Omaha. I tried to move back to both of them as an adult, but it did not work. Having been born in California in l944, I am here to stay, whether we stay with the Union, or separate, perhaps joining with Oregon and Washington.

The Berlin Wall seemed to fall almost over-night, as did the Soviet Empire. It is totally unpredictable what will happen. It is time to speak up. I love Sebastopol, Sonoma County, and Northern California, and am willing to take some non-violent risks to defend the diverse lifestyles that prevail here.

Meanwhile, we can enjoy Screaming Mimis, the free weekly Wed. love concerts in Ives, the redwoods, our farm markets, the ocean, dogs, cats and other critters, etc. Love On!

[ywv]

Have you been homeless? ...

Jessica,
I have also been homeless, as a teen in NYC I slept in the Port Authority Transit Center, paid to use the showers there. While working full-time, saving up money for first and last rent. I was extremely lucky I got a rent controlled railroad apartment. Otherwise I'd have had to live in the Port of Authority for years instead of months.
I've also been a single mother in SF, who had to chose between buying food or medicine for my child. Didn't earn enough to buy health insurance. However I earned to much to qualify for medi-cal, food stamps or a place for my child in subsidized childcare.
I was raised in an upper middle class family in Lafayette, CA. and would currently be considered "middle class".
However, I realize that in the blink of an eye I could be homeless again.
Wishing you all the best,
Yvette

[occihoff]

Yes, Tommy, I live in the "boonies" of Occidental, and I love it!

...There are places where they're not building hotels like this - probably in parts of Lake County, the boonies of Mendocino, little towns in the prairies of Kansas and Nebraska. Would you want to live there? Probably not, because it doesn't have the juice, and the appealing population of West County. ...

[occihoff]

Not to mention the drum circle that happens at the market every Wednesday at 7!

>>>>>pointing to Community Market and its ample easy-access parking

[pixeee nation]

WOW; I's surprised how little opposition there is for this;...

...i have to say that sadly i have had some personal things to attend to so i had not really heard about this until recently ; so forgive me if i am repeating what is already VERY obvious... Our "Farmers Market" is in a PARKING LOT surrounded by TWO highways ...it IS dangerous for Our Children Our "Pets" & Anyone Else because of ALL the cars the pollution etc...We have to constantly watch out for the VERY real possibility that a car will hit someone ...it makes Our Sunday Community gathering at Farmers Mkt NOT so relaxing as it COULD be ...We SHOULD be able to have a REAL "Town Square" , that is relaxing & not have to be MINDFUL of CONSTANT AUTOMOBILE TRAFFIC ....if there is going to be a hotel put in ...it makes WAY more sense to TRADE the current "park" to the hotel builders and MAKE the old "Tractor business lot" the MAIN TOWN Square since it would be MORE benefit ALSO for the "Barlow" area TOO ....then WE would not have to be worrying about any of our Loved Ones getting hit by cars or have to breathe the pollution constantly of TWO Highways ...this is THE kind of NONEsense that eventually destroys nice towns ..it is also known as "bad planning"...We MUST decide what kind of town We want to be ; personally i do NOT want any part of stinky palm grease greedy corporate interest coming before what is TRULY important : a Healthful Community of TRULY Sustainable Caring Human Beings sincerely e.m.c

[pixeee nation]

Also to anyone that LIKES the idea of a another Hotel..i DO NOT have a problem with "hotels" what i have a "problem" with ...IS PLACEMENT of it ...it is ridiculous it IS bad "planing" PERIOD....When We have to struggle between TWO highways with a tiny parking lot "town square" ...that is ignorant ...Sincerely e.m.c

[jesswolfe]

"Only governments can handle runaway tourism. Few major industries fall so squarely into their hands – local, regional and national. Governments decide who is eligible for visas: how many cruise ships, airlines and trains can bring in visitors, how many hotels receive building permits, how many beaches are open to development, how many museums and concert halls are open, even how many farmers receive subsidies to raise food for the restaurants and cafes that tourists frequent.

After years spent tracking the explosion of tourism, I came to the obvious conclusion that without serious and difficult government co-ordination, mayhem can follow. The current biggest disrupters are short-term rental companies, such as Airbnb, and cruise ships."

From The Guardian: Only governments can stem the tide of tourism sweeping the globe
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lobe?CMP=fb_gu

Jessica
www.daughterofthediviners.com

[tommy]

I read the Guardian article with the link provided by Jessica. It mentions Venice, a town in Cambodia, Rio de Janiero, New Orleans and Vancouver, where local populations have been pushed out by the economic pressure of tourism, leading to higher rents and a loss of community. "The dimensions of the industry have grown so vast so quickly that it has become a central issue of globalization". "The biggest disrupters are short-term rental companies, such as Airbnb and cruise ships."

In the background of my mind, was a week I spent on the island of Ko Tao, Thailand, which is about 2 miles by 4 miles, in February. No one lived on the island prior to 1947. Today it's lined with resorts, hotels, & rental accommodations. All water is imported into the island, in big tanks 6'x6'x6'. All trash and garbage is sent to the mainland, as the island is too small for burning or burying. Around the resorts, it's clean. Away from them, it's trashy, piles of trash stacked in black garbage bags, old vehicles run off the road & abandoned, and a filthy boat harbor with all kinds of crap floating around the boats.

My observation is that our lives are being affected by uncontrollable economic forces, that are difficult to control or temper. Capitalism seems to have no limits, in how it can ruin the environment, warm the globe, displace people, shrink jobs, raise the cost of housing, and monetarize everything. There are many more losers than winners.

"Only governments can handle runaway tourism. Few major industries fall so squarely into their hands – local, regional and national. Governments decide who is eligible for visas: how many cruise ships, airlines and trains can bring in visitors, how many hotels receive building permits, how many beaches are open to development, how many museums and concert halls are open, even how many farmers receive subsidies to raise food for the restaurants and cafes that tourists frequent.

After years spent tracking the explosion of tourism, I came to the obvious conclusion that without serious and difficult government co-ordination, mayhem can follow. The current biggest disrupters are short-term rental companies, such as Airbnb, and cruise ships."

From The Guardian: Only governments can stem the tide of tourism sweeping the globe

[luke32]

I have no quarrel with what you have said except the last sentence "There are many more losers than winners'"

The movement of people out of poverty around the globe has been remarkable over the last 20 or 30 years - all because of capitalism - and certainly not because of any other ism..

Here are a couple of quotes and the link from which they came - and there's plenty of other, similar evidence,: "At the dawn of the new millennium, the United Nations set a goal of eradicating poverty by 2030. With 14 years left to go, we’ve already reduced the proportion of destitute people in world by 50 percent, according to U.S. Agency for International Development administrator Gayle Smith." and "By the current metric of $1.90 a day, the decline is even greater. According to the World Bank, 1.9 billion people (or 37.1 percent of the global population) lived on less than $1.90 a day in 1990, compared to a projected 702 million (9.6 percent) in 2015. That’s a 74.1 percent decline in 25 years." https://www.politifact.com/global-news/statements/2016/mar/23/gayle-smith/did-we-really-reduce-extreme-poverty-half-30-years/

Capitalism certainly has its weaknesses, but other isms don't hold a candle to it - particularly with proper government intervention

[rossmen]

Your experience is valuable info here. We also have a trash crisis, or is it chronic? How can government/thecollectiveagreementforviolence help Us? Capitalism is a dirty word, and yet we benifit. Alternatives wither unless actively supported by collective. In the garden of human sociology/mind how do we tend for abundance vs invasion?

...
My observation is that our lives are being affected by uncontrollable economic forces, that are difficult to control or temper. Capitalism seems to have no limits, in how it can ruin the environment, warm the globe, displace people, shrink jobs, raise the cost of housing, and monetarize everything. There are many more losers than winners.