Gangstalking Conspiracy?

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

...I don't quite agree ... personal experience when added to many other cases of identical personal experience...

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Again, let's not confuse our direct experience with the inferences we make from it.

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...carries a bit of weight ...

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Okay, I'll grant that it carries a bit of weight--just not enough to be compelling unless you've also accounted for alternative explanations of your experience.

Re: your example of police harrassment--I have no idea whether your interpretations are true or false; I just don't know enough about what really happened (as opposed to what people say happened, which memories and interpretations are subject to numerous sources of distortion) to assess it.

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I think that when you have a whole lot of people experiencing the same thing at the same time then you should pay attention ... when this happens you are beyond the realm of personal interpretation of events and into the territory of "collective experience", and that to me is a whole different ball game ...

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Millions of people have had experiences which lead them to believe that, for instance, natural disasters are God's punishment for homosexuality, or for our not being Muslim, or not believing in Jesus, or believing in evolution. They are wrong; they've inferred meanings in their experiences that weren't really implied. Do you think that a million people making the same wrong inference makes it true? Incorrect inferences constitute zero evidence. Zero times a million still equals zero. The plural of "wrong inference" is not "evidence". When everyone inferred from their experience that the world was flat, their misinterpretation didn't mean the earth was really flat; it was just a misinterpretation. Until you and your zillion friends who agree with you seek out and openly consider alternative interpretations, your "collective experience" (really your collective interpretations of your experience) is far from compelling evidence. No matter how many people agree with you, your position is weak until you've openly considered alternative interpretations of your experience/evidence. And that's true for those who disagree with you, too.

Throughout this long saga of explanations and analysis, my position has been that certain experiences, especially when shared with thousands of other people, need to be taken seriously and explored ... so essentially we are saying the same thing ... I am suggesting that people do their own research and come up with their own conclusions about anything and everything that I post and I have stated openly that I am open and indeed appreciative of all viewpoints ...

But I have to go back to my initial question many posts back ...

When you are experiencing abuse and thousands of others are experiencing identical abuse, and government whistleblowers ( who know about such things ) are exposing similar abuse and actually signing affadavits to be used in court cases about such abuse, and government agencies are reporting thousands of records of such abuse, and there are multiple lawsuits about such abuse, and mainstream media has covered this abuse, and law enforcement has admitted the existence of such abuse, and many, many books have been written about this abuse ... at what point do you conclude that this abuse is actually an ugly part of our world which needs to be addressed?

The only apposing viewpoint can be that this abuse is not really happening and that all of the millions of references to such abuse are fabricated and some kind of mass delusion ... is this likely? I don't think so ... why am I not willing to accept this conclusion? ... because there's absolute, undeniable proof of such abuse ... lawsuits have actually been won about this abuse ... credible witnesses to such abuse ... video proof of such abuse ... honestly, what does it take?

At some point we, as a caring and intelligent community, have to look at the evidence and make a decision about these things ... we can analyze any claim, gather all of the information, gather opinions based on the information, but the information must be shared and verified before any of this can take place, ... analysis can not take place without all of the information needed to determine the facts ...

Though I agree that one must look at all interpretations of data to make sure that data is interpreted correctly, it is equally damaging to dismiss a claim before examining all of that data ....

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Again, let's not confuse our direct experience with the inferences we make from it.


Okay, I'll grant that it carries a bit of weight--just not enough to be compelling unless you've also accounted for alternative explanations of your experience.

Re: your example of police harrassment--I have no idea whether your interpretations are true or false; I just don't know enough about what really happened (as opposed to what people say happened, which memories and interpretations are subject to numerous sources of distortion) to assess it.


Millions of people have had experiences which lead them to believe that, for instance, natural disasters are God's punishment for homosexuality, or for our not being Muslim, or not believing in Jesus, or believing in evolution. They are wrong; they've inferred meanings in their experiences that weren't really implied. Do you think that a million people making the same wrong inference makes it true? Incorrect inferences constitute zero evidence. Zero times a million still equals zero. The plural of "wrong inference" is not "evidence". When everyone inferred from their experience that the world was flat, their misinterpretation didn't mean the earth was really flat; it was just a misinterpretation. Until you and your zillion friends who agree with you seek out and openly consider alternative interpretations, your "collective experience" (really your collective interpretations of your experience) is far from compelling evidence. No matter how many people agree with you, your position is weak until you've openly considered alternative interpretations of your experience/evidence. And that's true for those who disagree with you, too.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Throughout this long saga of explanations and analysis, my position has been that certain experiences, especially when shared with thousands of other people, need to be taken seriously and explored ... so essentially we are saying the same thing ... I am suggesting that people do their own research and come up with their own conclusions about anything and everything that I post and I have stated openly that I am open and indeed appreciative of all viewpoints ...

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Agreed!

If we have any "disagreement", it's that I'm wondering if you and your fellow "Targeted Individuals" (TIs) have really sought out more prosaic explanations for your experiences or are jumping too readily into what may in some cases be paranoid interpretations, then mutually reinforcing those interpretations through your community. Unfortunately, I haven't found the time to look at most of your links. I do recall at least one of your links a few months ago leading to a site that featured a lot of really dubious, even wacky, stuff. (Unfortunately, I don't recall the details.)

While being open to your claims, let me say that even if some or all of them are true, a community the size of the TI community will attract a lot of folks who have psychotic stuff going on, ranging from Simple Paranoia to complex, bizarre delusional systems as seen in disorders like Paranoid Schizophrenia. These disorders are real, they've existed for thousands of years, and they're associated with claims very similar to many of those we hear from you. I'm guessing that the TI community lovingly accepts nearly all claims without making much effort to separate the wheat from the chaff. If so, this undercuts your credibility.

I do agree that this stuff deserves research, and regret that I haven't found much time to look into it. After looking at your first couple of links, I got overwhelmed by the sheer volume of links you proffered and sort of gave up. I have no doubt that there is some truth to some of the claims of people being stalked or harassed, but when so many different kinds of things get roped into the same category, it's hard to follow, and starts to look like the kind of paranoid interpretation that sees a threat behind every bush. This then makes some of us skeptical about all of the associated claims. It might be good to tease out the separate threads and have discussions of, e.g., evidence for (and against) people being harassed with energy weapons versus vandalism of their home or car, versus verbal/behavioral harassment by their roommates or strangers on the street, etc. etc. We might then find that some of the claims are credible and others less so, thus trimming down the issue to a more manageable size.

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The only apposing viewpoint can be that this abuse is not really happening and that all of the millions of references to such abuse are fabricated and some kind of mass delusion ...

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Not true. The more likely explanation is that some of the claims are true and others not. Incidentally, some may very well be mass delusion, which is a more common phenomenon than most folks realize.

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...we can analyze any claim, gather all of the information ... analysis can not take place without all of the information needed to determine the facts ...

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In principle, I agree, but this issue as you've defined it is so huge and inchoate, with so many claims and associated data points, that it'd take ten lifetimes to analyze all of the data. Again, I urge you to break it down into sub-claims and focus on the best evidence.

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Though I agree that one must look at all interpretations of data to make sure that data is interpreted correctly, it is equally damaging to dismiss a claim before examining all of that data ....

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Agreed! And again, has the TI community been seeking out skeptical interpretations of their data?

One more thing: a huge factor that makes me skeptical of your claims is your belief that an accumulated total of many wo/man-hours of effort has been invested in harassing you and others like you. I can readily believe that shady forces in our society can afford to spend lots of effort and money to harass/discredit influential people like Martin Luther King; indeed we know that the FBI and others did just that. But to imagine that you or I are so important in the scheme of things that cumulatively many thousands of dollars worth of effort by many people would be invested in harassing us just seems grandiose--and such grandiosity is a hallmark of paranoia. I understand that in some cases people could be randomly selected for experimentation, or targeted due to a personal beef with someone who's, e.g., an FBI insider, but I don't think those explanations account for the sheer number of self-styled TIs who think they're so important as to be very expensively targeted. So if you expect the general public to take your concerns seriously, the TI community must start clearing out the deadwood in terms of disassociating itself from the most paranoid and least credible claims and claimants.

All the best to you, arthunter.

Yes, you are right, Dixon ... good advice ... here is my focus on the best evidence as you suggest ...

If you do a search on this topic you will indeed find "wacky" stuff ... though we could start a whole other thread about what is "wacky" and what is not, as this seems like subjective opinion, does it not? .... Also, things can seem wacky when you are uninformed about them ... a hundred years ago all of our modern technology would have sounded wacky ...

Frequently when researching this, you will find many warnings about this "wackiness" and how there are many fake targets publishing total unrealistic BS to discredit the real victims ... it's the old disinformation game again and obviously it's working ...

And to address your assumption, no the targeted community certainly does not accept all claims from just anyone who shows up, we're very guarded and extremely aware of disinformation campaigns ... we also do not just accept any person claiming to be targeted for the same reason ... you soon learn to separate the wheat from the chaff, to use your expression ...

I find it interesting that your focus should rest on the "wacky" stuff and not the rest of it, but as you've stated you have been overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information on the subject ... fair enough ... I believe you ...

I suggest that you focus on the following information when determining if this is some "wacky" delusion involving thousands of people ....

Ted Gunderson, ex FBI chief, certainly wasn't "wacky" when he signed his court affidavit stating that this harassment protocol exists ... https://gangstalkingismurder.wordpre...ief-affidavit/

Dr. John Hall, a medical doctor and anesthesiologist, certainly wasn't "wacky" when he wrote his well reviewed book about this ... https://www.amazon.com/A-New-Breed-S.../dp/1606939440

Lieutenant Larry Richard of the Santa Cruz Police Dept. certainly wasn't "wacky" when he stated that this is a growing criminal problem ... https://stalkingvictims.com/phpbb3/v...p?f=282&t=8820

the DOJ certainly wasn't "wacky" when they issued their report of January, 2009 verifying components of this protocol ... https://gangstalkingismurder.wordpre...alking-report/

KENS TV of Houston, Texas certainly wasn't "wacky" when they reported this on their local TV news program in 2010 ... https://www.kens5.com/news/Stalked-d...n-Antonio.html

MSNBC - KMIR TV6 Palm Springs News certainly wasn't "wacky" when they reported this in 2012 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6dk0MCOur8

ABC New TV10 in Sacramento certainly wasn't "wacky" when they reported on this in 2011 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=471QxZbN3Og

Robert Duncan, ex CIA, FBI, Justice Department & DARPA employee with degrees from Harvard and Dartmouth, certainly wasn't wacky when he exposed some of the technology involved in this harassment on Jesse Ventura's "Brain Invaders" show ... ( btw, his show was discontinued shortly after this program aired ) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXe-W2QPOuA he also wrote several books disclosing this information

GmB Bailey, author and researcher, certainly wasn't wacky when he wrote "Closing the Gap" which exposes this protocol ... https://www.amazon.com/Closing-The-G.../dp/1453803319

and I could go on ...

You've mentioned all of the different elements of this protocol ... yes, it is confusing ... it is a program which involves all of these things ... sorry, but that's the truth ... in fact, it is the protocol (and not the individual crimes) which makes it recognizable among victims ... imagine having 10 ridiculous crimes happen to you and then meeting someone else with the exact same story ...

I understand skepticism about this ... it took me months to believe it ... and more months to accept the technology involved ... I didn't want to believe it ... cognitive dissonance? ...

You should be careful not to make the assumption that the old Cointelpro is anything like the new Cointelpro ... this is a different animal ... we have emergency room physicians and normal every day housewives being targeted along with activists, whistle blowers and non conformists ... I think that this is a crime of revenge, social cleansing and hate, as much as anything else ... and I'm guessing that somewhere there's a profit motive ... perhaps corrupt connections to government spending?...

I certainly don't know all of the answers ... I just know that I am not delusional, that this is going on, that exposure about this is increasing, and that I'm gathering evidence and looking for a lawyer ... today I received a totally bogus government letter ... it was threatening and when I reported it to the appropriate government agency they had no knowledge of it ...

and on it goes ....

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Agreed!

If we have any "disagreement", it's tha...

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The only one of the links i checked out was the following...and in fact while it interviews a group of men who think they're being targeted, the news piece really put it in the context of delusion. I don't think that's what you intended as evidence for the reality of this phenomenon?

kathy

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MSNBC - KMIR TV6 Palm Springs News certainly wasn't "wacky" when they reported this in 2012 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6dk0MCOur8

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Hi Kathy,

I included this piece because these guys are claiming that there are 300 victims hearing voices in the Palm Springs area ... that's incredible ...

The piece is actually inconclusive ... you have the guys claiming to hear voices and the psychologist claiming that it must be mental illness ... as any psychologist would, I might add, not knowing that there now exists technology that produces this affect ... in fact, there's a brief shot in the video of the patent for this technology but the news team doesn't pick up on that ...

But if you look at the Jesse Ventura piece you will discover that there is indeed technology which produces voices in the head and it's called "Voice of God" ,... it was partially developed by Robert Duncan, an ex CIA whistle-blower who exposes it in this video .... if I remember correctly, he even demonstrates the technology on a stunned Jesse Ventura ..

I've never experienced this so I'm like the rest of you, struggling to believe, but there are a great many targets who claim that they hear voices ... and they are very credible professional people with absolutely no history of mental illness ... imagine the affect of this technology on an unsuspecting person ... not only would the person feel mentally ill but all around him or her would assume this as well ...

Here is some more info about this subject:

https://peacepink.ning.com/forum/top...voice-to-skull

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

The only one of the links i checked out was the following...and in fact while it interviews a group of men who think they're being targeted, the news piece really put it in the context of delusion. I don't think that's what you intended as evidence for the reality of this phenomenon?

kathy

[QUOTE
MSNBC - KMIR TV6 Palm Springs News certainly wasn't "wacky" when they reported this in 2012 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6dk0MCOur8 QUOTE]

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Hi, arthunter! Thanks for providing some links in an earlier post. I have not yet had time to look at them, except that your discussing the Palm Springs video here led me to watch it.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

I included this piece because these guys are claiming that there are 300 victims hearing voices in the Palm Springs area ... that's incredible ...

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Auditory hallucinations, sometimes just noises but usually voices, are very common in mental disorders such as Schizophrenia, Schizoaffective Disorder, some forms of Bipolar Disorder, etc., and have been for centuries. (Ironically, the "expert" interviewed in the video invoked Delusional Disorder, which does not involve prominent auditory hallucinations!) They commonly say terrible things and/or issue commands. Around 1% of the adult population could be expected to experience such voices from these causes. The population of Palm Springs was 44,552 as of the 2010 census. The "Palm Springs area", however defined, would include somewhat more people than that--maybe what, up to 50,000? Thus, we could expect around 450-500 people (1% of 45,000-50,000) in the Palm Springs area to experience "voices" just from mental illnesses, even if there were no "gang stalking" happening. The 300 figure you cite is low! It certainly provides zero evidence for any skullduggery of any kind.

The U.S. population is over 316 million. At some time in their lives, over 3 million of them should experience "voices" due to mental illness. If you and other TIs ("Targeted Individuals") are citing numbers of people reporting voices in the hundreds or even thousands as evidence for gang stalking, understand: these numbers, in and of themselves, constitute zero evidence of any sort of foul play. I'm not saying we know that such foul play isn't going on--only that citing large numbers of reports of "voices" as evidence of such is fallacious and undercuts your credibility. Okay?

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But if you look at the Jesse Ventura piece you will discover that there is indeed technology which produces voices in the head and it's called "Voice of God" ,... it was partially developed by Robert Duncan, an ex CIA whistle-blower who exposes it in this video .... if I remember correctly, he even demonstrates the technology on a stunned Jesse Ventura...

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I just read the Wikipedia article on the microwave auditory effect and it is indeed real. One researcher is quoted therein as saying "The sounds heard were not unlike those emitted by persons with an artificial voice box...". It makes me wonder if the technology has improved to the point of producing more natural sounding "voices". If not, that would call into question the "gang stalking" hypothesis in most or all cases of "voices", which are typically reported as sounding like real people.

Note that one of the guys in the video complained that the voices were commenting on his thoughts. This goes way beyond claims of simple "voice insertion"! For the voices to comment on his thoughts, the stalkers would have to be reading his mind from a distance before broadcasting the voices. This suggests to me that the voices were produced by his own mind. Or is the TI community also claiming that the stalkers can read your thoughts at a distance and immediately tailor the "voices" to comment thereon?

Thanks for your astute observations, Dixon ...

Most targeted individuals are over the age of 40 ... this quote is from the National Alliance on Mental Health ...

Schizophrenia typically occurs in a window of the mid- to late-teens to the early 30s (this age range is a few year later for females, often the presentation is early- to mid-20s as opposed to the teen years).

As you said your self, all information and viewpoints for and against your point of view must be considered ... I suggest that you find the time to watch the Jesse Ventura video ... in spite of it's cheesy format, the research in that program is quite important, as is the amazing interview with CIA whistle-blower Robert Duncan, a person who personally worked on this technology ... If you don't have time to watch the whole program then advance the video to 37.25, the Robert Duncan interview ....

Yes, the technology has become sophisticated enough to mimic actual voices ...

Here is another video about this out of Iceland ... I wish that they had eliminated the weird music and painted faced lady singing, but it contains a lot of factual information, including the history of such experimentation in America ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfqxN5DHFvU#t=2460

Yes, there is a claim about mind reading, it's called Remote Neural Monitoring ... Robert Duncan explains it in his book "Matrix Deciphered" which can be found for free on the internet ... if this is true then I'm in denial about it ... seriously, as a victim of some of this, there are some things that I don't want to acknowledge, ... I'm already horrified by what I know, ..... but a lot of TIs swear that it's true ...

Think of medical imaging and the ability of science to take photos of your body and brain without touching you ... this is the basis for Remote Neural Monitoring ... the same with directed energy weapons, think of tasers, remote controls, and even wi fi ... same principle ... invisible energy which accomplishes work ...

I will say that the technology being used is way beyond anything that we know about ... and that, my friend, is the scary part ....

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Hi, arthunter! Thanks for providing some links in an earlier post. I have not yet had time to look at them, except that your discussing the Palm Springs video here led me to watch it.


Auditory hallucinations, sometimes just noises but usually voices, are very common in mental disorders such as Schizophrenia, Schizoaffective Disorder, some forms of Bipolar Disorder, etc., and have been for centuries. (Ironically, the "expert" interviewed in the video invoked Delusional Disorder, which does not involve prominent auditory hallucinations!) They commonly say terrible things and/or issue commands. Around 1% of the adult population could be expected to experience such voices from these causes. The population of Palm Springs was 44,552 as of the 2010 census. The "Palm Springs area", however defined, would include somewhat more people than that--maybe what, up to 50,000? Thus, we could expect around 450-500 people (1% of 45,000-50,000) in the Palm Springs area to experience "voices" just from mental illnesses, even if there were no "gang stalking" happening. The 300 figure you cite is low! It certainly provides zero evidence for any skullduggery of any kind.

The U.S. population is over 316 million. At some time in their lives, over 3 million of them should experience "voices" due to mental illness. If you and other TIs ("Targeted Individuals") are citing numbers of people reporting voices in the hundreds or even thousands as evidence for gang stalking, understand: these numbers, in and of themselves, constitute zero evidence of any sort of foul play. I'm not saying we know that such foul play isn't going on--only that citing large numbers of reports of "voices" as evidence of such is fallacious and undercuts your credibility. Okay?


I just read the Wikipedia article on the microwave auditory effect and it is indeed real. One researcher is quoted therein as saying "The sounds heard were not unlike those emitted by persons with an artificial voice box...". It makes me wonder if the technology has improved to the point of producing more natural sounding "voices". If not, that would call into question the "gang stalking" hypothesis in most or all cases of "voices", which are typically reported as sounding like real people.

Note that one of the guys in the video complained that the voices were commenting on his thoughts. This goes way beyond claims of simple "voice insertion"! For the voices to comment on his thoughts, the stalkers would have to be reading his mind from a distance before broadcasting the voices. This suggests to me that the voices were produced by his own mind. Or is the TI community also claiming that the stalkers can read your thoughts at a distance and immediately tailor the "voices" to comment thereon?

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This just came in ... brilliant timing ...

Dr. John Hall wrote a book about this protocol and is now producing a movie about it ... this is a 24 minute interview with him discussing the problem ... the whole interview is interesting, but if you're short on time, he discusses the difference between technological audio affects and Schizophrenia at the 14:30 minute mark ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piHm1ogAEE8#t=24

oh arthunter...it seems like you of all people haven't done your homework here, or for that matter paid attention to the real world. there are adult and aging schizophrenics all over the place. it BEGINS during that window you "quote" from NAMI.

kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Thanks for your astute observations, Dixon ...

Most targeted individuals are over the age of 40 ... this quote is from the National Alliance on Mental Health ...

Schizophrenia typically occurs in a window of the mid- to late-teens to the early 30s....

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yes, and I'm saying that for targeted individuals it begins after age 40 ... please, I've given two important links here ... do a moment of research, would you? ... listen to either one ... one man is a CIA whistle-blower and the other man is a medical doctor ... aren't you the least bit curious?

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

oh arthunter...it seems like you of all people haven't done your homework here, or for that matter paid attention to the real world. there are adult and aging schizophrenics all over the place. it BEGINS during that window you "quote" from NAMI.

kathy

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you tried to say that schizophrenics are only young people...i'm correcting that.

i listened to the (Alex Jones!) interview with the MD--an anesthesiologist who showed up on tv in his scrubs, apparently a friend of the family of one young woman complaining of voices--yep, a medical doctor. but not necessarily an expert in any of these matters.

i am curious, yes. and sorry for the trauma that all this causes anyone! but pretty sure we're talking about encapsulated delusion. in itself a weird and isolating phenomenon, except for those blessed moments when one finds others similarly afflicted.

kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

yes, and I'm saying that for targeted individuals it begins after age 40 ... please, I've given two important links here ... do a moment of research, would you? ... listen to either one ... one man is a CIA whistle-blower and the other man is a medical doctor ... aren't you the least bit curious?

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I quoted a line of information from a reputable source ... thank you for adding your information ... it does not change the point I was making though ...

Let's see, you've managed to discredit Dr.John Hall ... and me ... and anyone else who's complaining about this abuse ... would you like to have a go at the rest of the links? ... you haven't addressed Ted Gunderson, Jesse Ventura, Robert Duncan, the Santa Cruz Police, a couple of TV stations, or the other author that I mentioned ... I can also give you a list of large support groups, many well published activists, and many more authors who have written about this ... if you're interested, that is ...

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

you tried to say that schizophrenics are ntaonly young people...i'm correcting that.

i listened to the (Alex Jones!) interview with the MD--an anesthesiologist who showed up on tv in his scrubs, apparently a friend of the family of one young woman complaining of voices--yep, a medical doctor. but not necessarily an expert in any of these matters.

i am curious, yes. and sorry for the trauma that all this causes anyone! but pretty sure we're talking about encapsulated delusion. in itself a weird and isolating phenomenon, except for those blessed moments when one finds others similarly afflicted.

kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

yes, and I'm saying that for targeted individuals it begins after age 40 ... please, I've given two important links here ... do a moment of research, would you? ... listen to either one ... one man is a CIA whistle-blower and the other man is a medical doctor ... aren't you the least bit curious?

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Arthunter,

I guess what I just don't understand is why on earth would there be a concerted, elaborate effort requiring the coordination of many people and presumably involving great expense and personal risk to intimidate, harass, and otherwise ruin the life of an ordinary innocent individual. Is it the government who is behind this or is it just a club of sadistic perverts? Who pays for all the abuses heaped on the "victims". Surely in all of these links there is some rationale? Claims are not evidence. Show me some real evidence. Show me the money.

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Arthunter,

I guess what I just don't understand is why on earth would there be a concerted, elaborate effort requiring the coordination of many people and presumably involving great expense and personal risk to intimidate, harass, and otherwise ruin the life of an ordinary innocent individual. Is it the government who is behind this or is it just a club of sadistic perverts? Who pays for all the abuses heaped on the "victims". Surely in all of these links there is some rationale? Claims are not evidence. Show me some real evidence. Show me the money.

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Could you please give some examples of what you would consider real evidence since you'll probably never have any direct personal experience with the subject matter?
Thank you.

jbox,

I have asked myself the exact same questions ... why me? ... Who would spend all of this money and time to destroy the life of a peaceful, friendly 60 year old gardener, animal rescuer and Home Hospice volunteer? ... it doesn't make sense ...

Honestly, this is something that I think about all of the time ... and this isn't lightweight harassment ... we're talking animals killed, property destroyed, poisonings, emergency room visits, brakes failing, many near accidents on the road, carbon monoxide vents blocked in my home, financial sabotage, break ins, surveillance, slander, police harassment, and let's not forget stalking ... and I can prove most of this ... I am literally afraid for my life and this is why I continue to publicize this ...

I've done nothing but research since this started two years ago ... and from everything that I read this is organized crime hiding within legitimate government and if you listen to the Robert Duncan interview he feels the same way ....

Why me? ... I have a few theories ... 1) Many targets have some kind of law enforcement in their families, .... two that I have known personally had fathers who were judges ... my uncle was a cop ... perhaps he put one of these people away and now my whole family is paying for it ... I have strong reasons to believe that my mother was targeted, now that I know the facts ... 2) 70% of the targets are women ... a lot of the women I know who are targets are beautiful and independent ... there is a theory that women are targeted for revenge after refusing advances or getting out of an abusive relationship ... I have done both ... 3) I was diagnosed with late stage lyme disease in my late 30s ... at the time I had a business with 8 employees ... I got so sick before it was discovered, that my whole financial and business world collapsed ... since the world seems to be run by bankers maybe that put me on the "list" as a non-conformist or a "risk" when this happened .... 4) I called the cops on criminals in my neighborhood ... I didn't know they were criminals, I was just trying to get the all night parties and gun firing stopped, but one of them was arrested and then they were evicted ...

Now to the money aspect ... if this is government experimentation, and a lot of people think that it is, then it is well funded ... and the person who "sells" you to the government as a human lab rat probably gets well paid for just "doing his job" ... of course, there would be a lot of slander involved and justification for the choice of this person, and that's where the revenge comes in ... Our government has been experimenting using innocent citizens for decades and I can produce lots of proof of this ...

A lot of the experimentation that's been done is psychological in nature ... look up MKUltra for verification of this ... and now, according to a lot of good information, the world is actually in a secret arms race, rapidly developing directed energy weapons ( like those already used in Iraq )... I have read that the gang stalking protocol, as well as being used to silence activists and whistle-blowers, is also used before experimentation begins to keep a subject defenseless ... not only does it discredit the person and make them appear mentally ill ( because it's so insane that when they report it no one believes them ) but it strips them of all that they would need to fight back ...

As far as proof, I urge you to read Ted Gunderson's affidavit and read it very carefully, especially his credentials ... just scroll down this page until you find it ...

https://gangstalkingismurder.wordpre...ief-affidavit/

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Arthunter,

I guess what I just don't understand is why on earth would there be a concerted, elaborate effort requiring the coordination of many people and presumably involving great expense and personal risk to intimidate, harass, and otherwise ruin the life of an ordinary innocent individual. Is it the government who is behind this or is it just a club of sadistic perverts? Who pays for all the abuses heaped on the "victims". Surely in all of these links there is some rationale? Claims are not evidence. Show me some real evidence. Show me the money.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

jbox,

I have asked myself the exact same questions ... why me? ...

Now to the money aspect ...

As far as proof, I urge you to read Ted Gunderson's affidavit and read it very carefully, especially his credentials ... just scroll down this page until you find it ...

https://gangstalkingismurder.wordpre...ief-affidavit/

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OK, I get that something might be going on. After reading your link I think that for to have this happen over a long period of time under the direction of the FBI and other intelligence agencies just seems so outrageous that this sort of pointless, vast conspiracy should have folded or imploded long ago. So, all I can say is - Show me the money.

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Posted in reply to the post by Alexia:

Could you please give some examples of what you would consider real evidence since you'll probably never have any direct personal experience with the subject matter?
Thank you.

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Emails, definitive financial transactions or records, policy statements, official reports, arrests, prosecutions, anything but f#%@+*g Jesse Ventura. He makes Ahnold look like Albert Schweitzer.

well there goes Jesse ... ex Navy Seal and ex-governor ... am I to understand that you just don't like his personality? ... well then to hell with the information he uncovers, eh? ... and the Robert Duncan interview? is that trashed because it's conducted by Jesse?

almost like saying that a doctor isn't credible because he's wearing scrubs and he actually knew the victim that was featured in his book ... now there's some logic for ya ...

and one of the reasons that this protocol is still going on is that the powers that be threaten or pay off many people ( I'll be nice and call them undercover agents ) who join in and discredit anyone who reports it ... have you ever heard of Cointelpro infiltration? ... if not do some research ... it's right at the top of the list for controlling opposition ...

and what on earth makes you think that any government injustice is just going to fold and implode? ... my God, it took a break in to retrieve Cointelpro files, they were exposed, they were told to stop, and I can post many credible links showing that they haven't ... once again, listen to the Robert Duncan interview, look at his credentials ...

I have proof of my case, others have proof of their cases, and there are several lawsuits in the works ... none of us will actually publish that proof before the court hearings ... we'd be stupid to do that ...

for convictions there's James Walbert ... since he won his court case for electronic harassment he's been approached by television for his story ... here's the coverage by wired.com ...

https://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/07/court-to-defendant-stop-blasting-that-mans-mind/

and here is just a small sampling of other court cases about this ...

https://peacepink.ning.com/profiles/...-control-v2k-1

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Emails, definitive financial transactions or records, policy statements, official reports, arrests, prosecutions, anything but f#%@+*g Jesse Ventura. He makes Ahnold look like Albert Schweitzer.

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And should you doubt that the technology exists and therefore all of these people are crazy, just look at this ... this is fact, not interpretation ....

US Patent 4,335,710 Device for the induction of specific brain wave patterns
US Patent 6,219,657 Device and method for creation of emotions
US Patent 6,238,333 Remote magnetic manipulation of nervous systems
US Patent 6,536,440 Method and system for generating sensory data onto the human neural cortex
US Patent 6,587,729 Apparatus for audibly communicating speech using the radio frequency hearing effect
US Patent 6,889,085 Method and system for forming an acoustic signal from neural timing difference data
US1749090 Apparatus for obtaining criminal confessions
US2304095 Method and apparatus for inducing and sustaining sleep
US2703344 Cutaneous Signaling -1949
US2860627 Pattern Photic Stimulator
US2902030 Alertness indicator
US2968302 Multibeam Focusing Irradiator (Sound) 1956
US3393279 Nervous System Excitation Device
US3398810 Ultrasonic Sound Beam
US3499437 Method and Apparatus for treament of organic structure
US3568347 Psycho-Acoustic Projector
US3576185 Sleep inducing method and arrangement using modulated sound and light
US3612061 Flexible Cutaneous Electrode Matrix 1969
US3773049 Apparatus for treatment of neuropsychic & somatic diseases with heat light sound & VHF electromagnetic radiation
US3967616 Multi channel system for & multi factorial method of controlling the nervous system of a living organism
US4227516 Apparatus for Electro-Physiological Stimulation
US4315502 Frequency Stimulation Device
US4349898 Sonic Weapon System
US4388918 Mental Harmonization Process
US4395600 Auditory subliminal message system and method
US4616261 Method and apparatus for generating subliminal visual messages
US4686605 Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth’s atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere
US4692118 Video Subconscious Display Attachment
US4699153 System for accessing verbal psycho-biological conditions of a subject
US4712155 Method and apparatus for creating an artificial electron cyclotron heating region of plasma
US4717343 Method of changing a person’s behavior
US4734037 Message Screen (Subliminal)
US4777529 Auditory subliminal programming system
US4821326 Non-Audible Speech Generation Method & Apparatus
US4834701 Apparatus for inducing frequency reduction in brain wave

https://patft.uspto.gov/

Every time I give this idea another try and follow a random one of your links, I come up with the same thing. Either the source is a well-known wingnut (Alex Jones, in the case of the doc), or the article/video you're using to prove your point actually adds fuel to the "other side"--in the case of the Wired magazine article, it's the latter. Their conclusion is that the TI market is a lucrative one for unscrupulous people offering to sweep your brain for implants, or to shield you...now THIS makes you a Targeted Individual, but only by clever, greedy, exploitive people who want to sell you something.

I know we (those of us who keep trying) won't talk you out of this terrible conviction--I assume it's terrible, that you're suffering needlessly. And I know you say you're suffering not from the conviction but from the wide variety of bad things that have happened to you. And I believe you think your consuming focus on this issue will result--or may help in some way--in dismantling the apparatus behind it all.

I do keep wondering how you explain what would have to be a big coordinated net of people behind it--operating entirely clandestinely, with fabulous technology and lots of money and time on their hands--and to accomplish what, exactly? To drive someone nuts?

I mean: is the fact that you are suffering so many awful things that you can barely think about anything else really serving some grand and nefarious purpose?

And: how WOULD you define delusion?

Arthunter, my 32-year-old is now telling me that he knows what God is thinking, that he (my son) can influence others' thoughts as he is now as powerful as God...and that anyone who hasn't repented had better watch out, because he (said son) will "take care of" them.

Would you say that's delusional?'

How about the guy I sat next to at the Denny's counter who complained that he was having a hard time getting maternity clothes to fit him? and plus wasn't being treated very respectfully by the saleswomen...

delusional?

ah but not you and your fellow TIs...because there's lots of you?

you might say to just go away and leave you alone, and i might just do that...but you do seem to want to engage the rest of us in conversation.

wishing us all peace and a good night,

kathy

I see no attempt by you to face the facts of what I'm sharing. Your intent seems to be one of discrediting any source of information which I provide. Now it's Alex Jones that is the problem.... you haven't focused at all on the interview by a well known doctor and author who's trying to expose this thing, who's actually had coverage by mainstream news reporting in Texas ... no, he couldn't possibly be correct because it's Alex Jones interviewing him ...

And the wired.com piece about James Walbert ... you are not focused on the facts of the case and that it was decided in James Walbert's favor, or that he is supported by a member of the house of representatives and the UN ... no, you'd rather focus on the fact that business is looking at the profit potential of such cases ...

and who's logic is fuzzy here?

and what about all of the other links? ... how will you discredit two government whistle-blowers, mainstream news reporting, the Santa Cruz Policeman, pages of petitions to Congress, and multiple court cases ?

If you want an answer to your question then I suggest that you watch the Robert Duncan interview ... this is technology meant to disable and control people ... it was actually used in Iraq ... there are patents ... it is being tested for crowd control, etc. ... some say that these are the ultimate weapons of control being developed by those in power who have nothing but money to burn .... and yes, you're dam right I'm focused on it ...

I'm sincerely sorry to hear about your son ... yes, he does sound delusional ... and yes, a man worried about maternity clothes fitting would concern me ... but to take all of the information that I've provided and compare it to these two cases? ... are you kidding me?

once again, what is your agenda here? ... I don't see you discussing the facts at all ...

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

Every time I give this idea another try and follow a random one of your links, I come up with the same thing. Either the source is a well-known wingnut (Alex Jones, in the case of the doc), or the article/video you're using to prove your point actually adds fuel to the "other side"-...

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This is an intelligent article about the technologies which exist today ... it is well documented ... it's the kind of article that I hate to read because one realizes that this technology is a secret and, therefore, possibly in dangerous hands ...

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/0...iction-beyond/

At this point in the exploration of this theory, I want to remind all of you of Cointelpro. A lot of what's happening to me and others is very similar to past Cointelpro tactics. As some of you know, I have a petition circulating which addresses the modern day Cointelpro. It has over a thousand signatures and the comments will reveal that many of the signers consider themselves victims of this protocol ... when I publicize this petition I usually experience computer problems and/or vandalism to my car and property ... I have also been threatened ...

Cointelpro is not a theory ... it is well documented .... here is a link from that petition which discusses Cointelpro today:

https://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/COINTELPRO/cointelpro-methods.html

The author of this article, Brian Glick, is a clinical associate professor of law at Fordham University ... here is his biography ...

https://law.fordham.edu/faculty/brianglick.htm


Recently, I was sent information about a famous Cointelpro victim ... her name was Jean Seberg and she was a successful actress until she made the mistake of giving financial support to activist groups ... Here is her story on Wikipedia, including her proven destruction by government agents ...( she finally killed herself at age 40 )... notice that this account of her harassment includes constant stalking and character assassination ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Seberg


There is one more possibility for my targeting which I neglected to mention. My mother was a published activist fighting primarily for women's rights. She loved men but she wanted the ability to earn equal pay for equal work. She was very vocal and published in newspapers around the country.

When she was around my age she started complaining about harassment. She also abruptly lost her job, without any real reasons being given. She was also reporting strange events around her home which were difficult to explain. Her health also started to deteriorate in spite of a very healthy lifestyle.

I didn't think anything of this at the time because I was busy trying to cope with Lyme disease and property renovation while running a complex business. I thought that she was just "losing it" due to the stress in her life. She finally died an early death due to serious medical misdiagnosis.

Shortly after she died, things in my life started to decay as well. My healthy cat suddenly died, my house caught on fire, and my husband of 20 years suddenly became verbally violent. I also developed strange electrical abnormalities ( witnessed by many other people ) and business problems which were beyond my control.

Now look at the Jesse Ventura episode I've referenced where he interviews targeted individuals ... you will see that they all have one thing in common, and that is activism against US government policies.

All just a coincidence? ... I'll let you decide ...

This is Robert Duncan's new book ... he's the man who is interviewed on Jesse Ventura's "Brain Invaders" ... he worked for the CIA as well as many other government alphabet agencies and had a role in developing the systems which are now being used against innocent citizens ... obviously, he is now a whistle-blower ...

You can read some of the book on this Amazon page by clicking on "Look Inside" and then manipulating the arrows and scrolling feature ...

https://www.amazon.com/How-Tame-Demo...o+tame+a+demon

I'm reminded of the discussions here a couple of years ago about the terrible, harmful contrails in the sky.....

This came in this morning ... the interesting thing about Aaron Alexis is that he contacted the largest gang stalking support group to say that he was being electronically harassed ... he was begging for help, but before the president of that organization could make contact with him he went on his shooting rampage ... make of it what you will ....

https://canadafreepress.com/index.ph...rkMAyE.twitter

Also, did you know that Denis Kucinich introduced a bill that would ban space based weapon systems, including those used for mind control? ... this stuff is difficult for me to believe and accept, but the information regarding it is overwhelming so I include it .... this is a very informative article ...
..
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_psy.chotronicweapons10.htm

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Also, did you know that Denis Kucinich introduced a bill that would ban space based weapon systems, including those used for mind control?

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It's a bit misleading to only give half the story. The bill you refer to is HR 2977. It wasn't written by Kucinich. It was written by some friends of his who have some ideas that even you, arthunter, would probably find pretty strange (aliens, time travel, etc.). Apparently Kucinich didn't read the bill before introducing it, and he later disassociated himself from it--an embarrassing episode for him. It certainly didn't help his already slim chance at the Presidency--a shame, since I think he's one of the few good, progressive politicians. Here's a good article on the whole mess:
https://contrailscience.com/kucinich...s-and-hr-2977/
And here's a relevant excerpt from the article:
"So what’s Kucinich's involvement in this? It's difficult to say. Kucinich is anti-war, so perhaps that's his motivation. He does have a lot of new-age, UFO-believing, friends, but he's also running for president. When he was made aware of the nature of the "exotic weapons" language in the bill, it was re-written, and when questioned about it, he said "I'm not into that. Understand me. When I found out that was in there, I said, 'Look, I'm not interested in going there.'"

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

... the interesting thing about Aaron Alexis is that he contacted the largest gang stalking support group to say that he was being electronically harassed ... he was begging for help, but before the president of that organization could make contact with him he went on his shooting rampage ... make of it what you will ....

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Okay, here's what I make of it after having read the article you link to: All of the facts reported are consistent with a psychotic disorder. I understand that they're also consistent with your hypothesis. I'm leaning toward the psychotic disorder interpretation, partly because, even if the scenario you describe is really happening, I assume paranoid psychosis of various types is more common (in the millions in this country alone). Also, even if we assume that the voice commands were planted there by someone, why would Alexis choose to follow the horrible commands? Hearing voices is one thing; being crazy enough to attribute godlike authority and following the orders is another. The people I've personally known who've done horrible things due to command hallucinations (such as John, a very pleasant local guy who cut off his own hand because the voice told him to), all had pretty classic psychotic disorders.

Not so fast, Dixon ... the information that you provided was new to me ( thank you ) and so I did a bit more research ... it seems that Kucinich gave an interview following the changes in his bill in which he states that the changes were made "under pressure" ... with all of the suppression of information lately ( whistle-blowers jailed, journalists disappearing ) I think that there's a good chance that he was just silenced ...

https://www.rense.com/general20/cc.htm

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

It's a bit misleading to only give half the story. The bill you refer to is HR 2977. It wasn't written by Kucinich. It was written by some friends of his who have some ideas that even you, arthunter, would probably find pretty strange (aliens, time travel, etc.). Apparently Kucinich didn't read the bill before introducing it, and he later disassociated himself from it--an embarrassing episode for him. It certainly didn't help his already slim chance at the Presidency--a shame, since I think he's one of the few good, progressive politicians. Here's a good article on the whole mess:
https://contrailscience.com/kucinich...s-and-hr-2977/
And here's a relevant excerpt from the article:
"So what’s Kucinich's involvement in this? It's difficult to say. Kucinich is anti-war, so perhaps that's his motivation. He does have a lot of new-age, UFO-believing, friends, but he's also running for president. When he was made aware of the nature of the "exotic weapons" language in the bill, it was re-written, and when questioned about it, he said "I'm not into that. Understand me. When I found out that was in there, I said, 'Look, I'm not interested in going there.'"

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You might very well be right, Dixon, ... we will never know ... but before you make assumptions you should educate yourself ... here's a good article about this story and the weapons involved ...

https://communities.washingtontimes....yard-shooting/

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Okay, here's what I make of it after having read the article you link to: All of the facts reported are consistent with a psychotic disorder. I understand that they're also consistent with your hypothesis. I'm leaning toward the psychotic disorder interpretation, partly because, even if the scenario you describe is really happening, I assume paranoid psychosis of various types is more common (in the millions in this country alone). Also, even if we assume that the voice commands were planted there by someone, why would Alexis choose to follow the horrible commands? Hearing voices is one thing; being crazy enough to attribute godlike authority and following the orders is another. The people I've personally known who've done horrible things due to command hallucinations (such as John, a very pleasant local guy who cut off his own hand because the voice told him to), all had pretty classic psychotic disorders.

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and here's more from the Washington Times about the shooter ...

https://communities.washingtontimes....ncy-attacks-t/

arthunter (and alexis?) i'm not seeing here the post i'm referencing...rats! starting to think there's nefarious forces at work!

i read the article from the Washington Times, and am extracting this quote:

"While Boorda ostensibly shot himself because of an imminent story in the U.S. press that he was in the habit of wearing medals he never earned some lurid reports have surfaced that he was murdered because he was about to reveal sinister undertakings by the Navy in mind control and brain warfare.”

ok you guys answer me this: do you acknowledge the existence of mass delusion?

kathy

Kathy,
Before I answer your question, can you give me an example of mass delusion? ... and please don't reference ancient times ( the world being flat, etc. ) ... I mean in the current century ...

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

arthunter (and alexis?) i'm not seeing here the post i'm referencing...rats! starting to think there's nefarious forces at work!

i read the article from the Washington Times, and am extracting this quote:

"While Boorda ostensibly shot himself because of an imminent story in the U.S. press that he was in the habit of wearing medals he never earned some lurid reports have surfaced that he was murdered because he was about to reveal sinister undertakings by the Navy in mind control and brain warfare.”

ok you guys answer me this: do you acknowledge the existence of mass delusion?

kathy

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Another targeted individual speaks out, and I sincerely hope that he's wrong about what's going on ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7grbMw_s3M#t=1165

and also Kathy, ... how do you see our nation at the moment? ... do you think that it's right that we are all being spied upon? ... do you think that it's right that whistle-blowers are being jailed? ... do you think that it was right that the Occupy movement was infiltrated and destroyed? .... do you think that it's right that many that are trying to tell the truth are being destroyed with Cointelpro tactics? ...

Do you believe in cover ups? ... do you believe that our government has silenced many serious threats to government policy? .... ( both in the past and in the present ) ... do you believe that disinformation agents are present in abundance on the internet? ... do you believe that our government has engaged in non consensual experimentation? ... do you think that a lot of our government has been bought up by corporate interests?

do you trust our government not to abuse it's power?

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Kathy,
Before I answer your question, can you give me an example of mass delusion? ... and please don't reference ancient times ( the world being flat, etc. ) ... I mean in the current century ...

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and one more point, Kathy ... what kind of mass delusion includes high-positioned government whistle-blowers, an ex-governor, a ton of intelligent authors, policemen, doctors, lawyers, tv reporters, journalists, activists, giant support groups, etc. etc. ... isn't it more likely that they're trying to tell us something?

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

and also Kathy, ... how do you see our nation at the moment? ... do you think that it's right that we are all being spied upon? ... do you think that it's right that whistle-blowers are being jailed? ... do you think that it was right that the Occupy movement was infiltrated and destroyed? .... do you think that it's right that many that are trying to tell the truth are being destroyed with Cointelpro tactics? ...

Do you believe in cover ups? ... do you believe that our government has silenced many serious threats to government policy? .... ( both in the past and in the present ) ... do you believe that disinformation agents are present in abundance on the internet? ... do you believe that our government has engaged in non consensual experimentation? ... do you think that a lot of our government has been bought up by corporate interests?

do you trust our government not to abuse it's power?

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Arthunter you challenge us--out here, the skeptics about gangstalking--to "do the research", and I take you seriously. I DO check out the links you post, and have been sharing what I find. It's not ME discrediting the individuals i report back on, it's their own words and actions.

For example, Ted Gunderson, who was in fact an FBI agent with lots of responsibility. The following is also true and easy to find in Wikipedia:

'Gunderson warned about the proliferation of secret Satanic groups, and the danger posed by the New World Order, a shadow government that would be controlling the US government.^[9] He also claimed that a "slave auction" in which children were sold to men in turbans had been held in Las Vegas, that four thousand ritual human sacrifices are performed in New York City every year, and that the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was carried out by the US government.^[9] Gunderson believed that in the US there is a secret widespread network of groups who kidnap children and infants, and subject them to Satanic ritual abuse and subsequent human sacrifice.^[10][11]"

In response to our characterization of delusion on a mass level, you say it couldn't be--because there are so many people, including doctors, lawyers etc on board. Well the truth is that delusion is honestly an equal-opportunity condition and anyone can be hit by it. Brains, money, youth, position--doesn't matter.

I'm not sure why a few of us can't let go of this conversation, if we're so sure you're just spouting delusional nonsense Maybe it's because one leg of your position is so awful and so true--about real suppression of the likes of MLK, and government lies, and massive covert surveillance. All true, and all so deserving of our attention.

And maybe it's because you seem like a lovely person in other respects--I really appreciated your kind words of concern about my son. And--I may be wrong about this--but you do seem deeply troubled by your convictions, so I keep feeling moved to try and combat them. Probably nunna my beeswax.

But given that i can't let go yet, I put to you my question from before: do you acknowledge the existence of mass delusion? Would YOU consider doing some homework outside the laser-focused search for yet more mentions of gangstalking? Like would you look up "mass delusion" and just read about it?

kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

I quoted a line of information from a reputable source ... thank you for adding your information ... it does not change the point I was making though ...

Let's see, you've managed to discredit Dr.John Hall ... and me ... and anyone else who's complaining about this abuse ... would you like to have a go at the rest of the links? ... you haven't addressed Ted Gunderson, Jesse Ventura, Robert Duncan, the Santa Cruz Police, a couple of TV stations, or the other author that I mentioned ... I can also give you a list of large support groups, many well published activists, and many more authors who have written about this ... if you're interested, that is ...

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Kathy,

Thank you for your concern but I am fine.

This whole thing started with my warning about organized crime in our community, and I'm not the only one who has sounded this alarm. I do believe that this is a part of the new Cointelpro program ( government silencing and suppression ) and I could certainly name others in Sonoma County who suspect this as well. Also, I am in contact with several residents who are victims of government experimentation but prefer to remain anonymous, but one is writing a book about it ...

You are forgetting a very important point here ... I have stated several times that I have proof of what I've gone through ... I can not disclose this proof as I am now involved in two class action lawsuits about this, but this would prove to you that this is not a delusion. Others also have proof..... I also have a whistle-blower ... a lot of people have been involved in this harassment and one promised to expose this should I become diseased or should I die. There's a lot of blackmail and coercion going on and not everyone is happy about their role in this abuse. This person realized, like you, that I am a sweet, caring person, and that I didn't deserve this ... I'm very grateful to this person ...

I did look up mass delusions and most of them seem to involve occult issues like satanism and witchcraft ... this is a crime protocol that closely mirrors Cointelpro ... it is not a mass delusion ... sorry ...

If you look at this movie trailer, at the bottom you will see that there's approximately 300,000 victims of this protocol in America. The perpetrators of this huge injustice cannot silence us all ... this story is coming out and I don't think that anything will stop that from happening at this point ....

Now I've answered your question, ... perhaps you could answer my questions?

https://www.newbreedmovie.com

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

Arthunter you challenge us--out here, the skeptics about gangstalking--to "do the research", and I take you seriously. I DO check out the links you post, and have been sharing what I find. It's not ME discrediting the individuals i report back on, it's their own words and actions.

For example, Ted Gunderson, ...

I'm not sure why a few of us can't let go of this conversation, if we're so sure you're just spouting delusional nonsense Maybe it's because one leg of your position is so awful and so true--about real suppression of the likes of MLK, and government lies, and massive covert surveillance. All true, and all so deserving of our attention.

And maybe it's because you seem like a lovely person in other respects--I really appreciated your kind words of concern about my son. And--I may be wrong about this--but you do seem deeply troubled by your convictions, so I keep feeling moved to try and combat them. Probably nunna my beeswax.

But given that i can't let go yet, I put to you my question from before: do you acknowledge the existence of mass delusion? Would YOU consider doing some homework outside the laser-focused search for yet more mentions of gangstalking? Like would you look up "mass delusion" and just read about it?

kathy

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first, i'm happy to answer your questions if i can--didn't see any though.

second, i can't imagine where you looked up (mass) delusions and found mostly satanism and witchcraft. here's a quote--again from good old wiki:
Persecutory delusions

Main article: Persecutory delusion
Persecutory delusions are the most common type of delusions and involve the theme of being followed, harassed, cheated, poisoned or drugged, conspired against, spied on, attacked, or otherwise obstructed in the pursuit of goals. Persecutory delusions are a condition in which the affected person wrongly believes that they are being persecuted. Specifically, they have been defined as containing three central elements:^{[12][page needed]} The individual thinks that

1. harm is occurring, or is going to occur.
2. the persecutor(s) has(have) the intention to cause harm.
3. they are constantly being prejudged or profiled.

I have to say it seems strange to hear that you're fine! In spite of such an unbroken stream of horrible things happening to you .

k

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Kathy,

Thank you for your concern but I am fine. ...

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Kathy,

I'm getting the feeling that you're not really reading my words ... my questions to you are a few comments back in this thread ...

I also mentioned that I and others have proof of this protocol ... did you miss that?

I also think that there might be other psychological conditions that we should be discussing here like denial and cognitive dissonance ...

I have published enough factual information about this protocol to fill a small publication and I could fill a book if you like ... delusional people don't usually organize into global activists groups with daily sophisticated conference calls, ....they usually don't initiate ( and win ) multiple lawsuits ... they usually aren't investigated and confirmed by ex-governor, ex-Navy Seal, public figures ... they usually don't petition Congress, and the President, and the Senators ( pages of petitions - look it up ) ... they usually don't testify, en masse, to the president's Bioethics Committee ... they usually don't involve the UN's Special Rapporteur on Torture .... they usually don't write books with well documented facts to back up their claims ... and I could go on and on ...

I have to wonder, after all that I've shared, why you are so convinced that this is all a delusion? ... are you unaware of history and the great harm done to innocent people in the past? ... are you unaware that the diagnosis of mental illness has been used to discredit political dissent repeatedly? ... why are you not looking at these possibilities ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry

https://geeldon.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/the-use-of-mental-health-system-to-silence-targets/

and I have trouble accepting this because it's so awful, but here is real information presented in a lawsuit against the NSA ...

https://www.whale.to/b/nsa7.html

To answer your question, .... I am fine because, in spite of this harassment, I am engaged in the most important role of my life, that of exposing massive corruption and injustice ... I believe that this covert protocol will absolutely destroy any freedom or democracy in the world ... I believe that this is a method of controlling the population and I'm fighting for the children out there who deserve a fair chance ... this keeps me strong ....

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

first, i'm happy to answer your questions if i can--didn't see any though.

second, i can't imagine where you looked up (mass) delusions and found mostly satanism and witchcraft. here's a quote--again from good old wiki:
Persecutory delusions

Main article: Persecutory delusion
Persecutory delusions are the most common type of delusions and involve the theme of being followed, harassed, cheated, poisoned or drugged, conspired against, spied on, attacked, or otherwise obstructed in the pursuit of goals. ...

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Arthunter I'm having the scary thought that you might be seeing me as part of the oppressor network--part of those who "use mental illness diagnoses to discredit political dissent". Scary because if you do see me as part of the apparatus organized to torment targeted individuals--what might you do to ME? I am no longer just a fellow person to you.

When we take this out of the theoretical and into the personal...which is after all where we live...the fear gets contagious. If indeed it's fear you're feeling. You say you feel strong and fine. I'm still having a hard time reconciling your experience of constant, random awfulness and your apparent peace of mind.

kathy

Kathy,

Nothing could be further from the truth ... I have no reason at all to suspect that you are trying to harm me ... I'm just confused because you are ignoring my questions and the facts that I have presented ... that puzzles me .... you seem like a rational person so why would you continue on with this conversation in this way?

The information that I have shared is meant to educate people ( you included ) about one aspect of this protocol ... it is covered up by a diagnosis of mental illness, and there is a long history of this tactic being used for political reasons.

I am not fearful ... far from it ... I have a great deal of support any time that I want it ... I can give you contact information for at least one hundred other people who will verify this protocol ... that also gives me strength ... one is a middle aged emergency room physician, who didn't just go delusional one day and decide to search the internet for a good fantasy ...

It is you that I'm worried about because you are so insistent on portraying me as delusional that you are forgetting what it is to converse. Could you answer my questions please?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

Arthunter I'm having the scary thought that you might be seeing me as part of the oppressor network--part of those who "use mental illness diagnoses to discredit political dissent". Scary because if you do see me as part of the apparatus organized to torment targeted individuals--what might you do to ME? I am no longer just a fellow person to you.

When we take this out of the theoretical and into the personal...which is after all where we live...the fear gets contagious. If indeed it's fear you're feeling. You say you feel strong and fine. I'm still having a hard time reconciling your experience of constant, random awfulness and your apparent peace of mind.

kathy

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Kathy ( and any one else interested ),

Please do some research so that we can talk intelligently about this.

On this page you find 4 reports from mainstream news, 5 radio interviews, 11 press releases, and more ... all concerning this subject ... this is the organization which assisted the FBI with the Aaron Alexis case, as I mentioned previously ... the president of this organization is an ex- military- NSA employee. There are conference calls, many international which I can publish as well ... this organization has 2500 members, ... all victims ... the last press release featured the following speakers, just to give you an idea of the caliber of the members ...

EVENT SPEAKERS: (in alphabetical order)
Chris Crowder, Mechanical Engineer
Dr. John Hall, Anesthesiologist, Author, A New Breed: Satellite Terrorism in America
Robert Duncan O'Finioan, former Manchurian Candidate
Rep. Jim Guest, Missouri House of Representatives
Cyndie Spanier, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist
Dr. Terry Robertson, Anesthesiologist
Tim White, Human Rights Activist, Telecommunications Engineer
Katherine Moore, former Vice-Mayor, Wilmington, NC
Mary Ann Stratton, Human Rights Activist
Michael Lauria, commercial airline pilot, ret.
Joan Germano, Real Estate Agent
Jo Rabjohn, Author
Brian Uram, Real Estate Agent

https://www.freedomfchs.com/id21.html

I just reread this comment, Kathy, and I'd like to answer your question ...

What would I do to you if I thought that you were involved with this? ... I'd do my best to ignore you ... I'd pity you ... I'd pray for you ...

Your fear is completely unjustified ....now who's paranoid? ...

Very few targets act out in any vengeful way because we all know that framing is a huge part of this protocol ...

You've asked me how I manage to keep my composure during this harassment ... well research and activism is one way that I do that ... trying to help other targets is another way that I do that ... I'm also very good at selective focus ... I see goodness and beauty all around me, I certainly don't have to focus on this sick, twisted crap all of the time ..

I'm a ten year volunteer at Home Hospice in Sebastopol .... I'm at the thrift store on Saturdays ... come by yourself and see how good I am at coping ....

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

Arthunter I'm hayving the scary thought that you might be seeing me as part of the oppressor network--part of those who "use mental illness diagnoses to discredit political dissent". Scary because if you do see me as pbart of the apparatus organized to tormyent targeted individuals--what might you do to ME? I am no longer just a fellow person to you.

When we take this out of the theoretical and into the personal...which is after all where we live...the fear gets contagious. If indeed it's fear you're feeling. You say you feel strong and fine. I'm still having a hard time reconciling your experience of constant, random awfulness and your apparent peace of mind.

kathy

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1, a tiny detail: "alphabetical order"? not in the same alphabet i use.

2. answer your questions? honestly i would if i could find them, and if i had any answers.

3. (and most significant, i think) i actually AM trying to discredit your beliefs by way of a mental health diagnosis (you probably noticed). so how would i not be part of the effort to target you? i mean...why exempt me from that charge?

Kathy,

At this point I think that we should just agree to disagree ... I'm sorry but I'm not really interested in conversing with someone who ignores what I write ... this just feels like a waste of my time ...

Thank you for your interest and good luck to you and your son ... I wish you every happiness and I wish him a speedy recovery ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

1, a tiny detail: "alphabetical order"? not in the same alphabet i use.

2. answer your questions? honestly i would if i could find them, and if i had any answers.
t
3. (and most significant, i think) i actually AM trying to discredit your beliefs by way of a mental health diagnosis (you probably noticed). so how would i not be part of the effort to target you? i mean...why exempt me from that charge?

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This is a link to a page of Mark Rich's book "The Hidden Evil" .... if you want to read the whole book then just hit the link at the bottom of the page which will take you to the table of contents .... many people agree with Mark, especially since this protocol is being reported internationally and also because his book is so well documented .... it's a fascinating read ...

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/hiddenevil/hiddenevil17.htm

This is a talk given by Dr. Terry Robertson and Dr. John Hall and I believe that it was given at Sonoma State ... Listen to this please and tell me if you think that these people are delusional ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZtfpqVxmzU#t=916

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

This is a talk given by Dr. Terry Robertson and Dr. John Hall and I believe that it was given at Sonoma State ... Listen to this please and tell me if you think that these people are delusional ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZtfpqVxmzU#t=916

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OK, Arthunter, everybody believes you believe. Now for our peace of mind and for yours, please give this thing a rest. Go do something else for a while.

I can attest to what I called "psychological lynching" in my color of law complaint's addendum I recently filed with the Justice Dept and FBI. I had to close my law office in 2012 in Pinellas County, Florida due to continued hacking of my internet access, email accounts, iphone (personal still hacked), phony potential clients constantly calling me, etc. I was a member in good standing of the Florida Bar, without disciplinary history, since 1977. My home of over 20 years is now in foreclosure and my previous excellent credit is ruined. I have also been impliedly threatened with disability and selective enforcement of the law.

The "reasons"? I dated the wife of a high ranking law enforcement officer (major) while I was her divorce attorney in 2003. We dated until 2011. She was a neighbor I only knew in passing who had told me of her five year plan of divorce, but called me a year later to represent her. I have been smeared as a pedophile and child molester for viewing a lot of adult consenting porn, some gay, while I was a Big Brother. I would gladly be tested to disprove the smear. I never would have a gay/bisexual encounter. I did not involve my Little Brother in any way with porn, etc. Of course, local police deny even harassing me.

I was harassed by Pinellas County Sheriff's Office detective cars by my house for a month just after my ex-girlfriend and I started dating - illegal, but understandable. But five years later beginning in 2008 (the ex-husband had retired a few months earlier), I started getting harassed by law enforcement vehicles, almost daily, for two years. This type of harassment tapered off and more subtle harassment - "psychological lynching" - began by people harassing me in ordinary places (a few I know, but most I don't). I later learned that this phenomenon is called gang stalking, community mobbing, etc. I don't buy into the articles claiming mind control, microwave bombardment, etc. I recently created a website (url - systematicpoliceharassment-pinellascountyflorida; title - My Five Years of Systematic Police Harassment in Pinellas County Florida") detailing some of the incidents.

[ Rick Grie joined WaccoBB today and is based in Florida - Barry]

jbox,

I wasn't the one to resurrect this subject and I didn't initiate this thread. When Dixon began this thread I thought that we were finally going to look at the facts of this, and I was happy to supply those. This meeting of the minds, which took place in our own back yard, is a very important addition to the body of knowledge which I've already shared.

If you have no interest in this protocol, which could be accurately described as one of the most potent threats to human rights on the planet, then I suggest that you just skip over these posts. You would be less inclined to "give this thing a rest" if it were your rights being trampled on ... and you know, someday it might be your rights on the chopping block ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

OK, Arthunter, everybody believes you believe. Now for our peace of mind and for yours, please give this thing a rest. Go do something else for a while.

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Thanks so much, Rick, for coming forward with your story.

This story is very similar to stories that I hear every day from others. This is a total abuse of power, which is why I'm trying to expose it. This has nothing to do with terrorism or criminality and everything to do with personal revenge. Many women who are subjected to this harassment suspect that it is because of turning down advances or breaking away from someone with "connections" ... and their whole lives are being destroyed, just as you describe ... slander, financial sabotage, harassment, stalking ... etc.

I will look at your website a bit later. In the meantime, please realize that you are not alone and that thousands of other people are coming forward with similar stories.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Rick Grie:

I can attest to what I called "psychological lynching" in my color of law complaint's addendum I recently filed with the Justice Dept and FBI. ...

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Yet another petition ... this one from the president of Freedom from Covert Surveillance and Harassment ... only awareness can stop this ...

https://www.change.org/petitions/u-s...est&utm_term=1

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

I wasn't the one to resurrect this subject and I didn't initiate this thread. When Dixon began this thread...

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Wait a minute! I started this thread? No way! Not that it matters much, but just for the sake of accuracy, this thread was broken off from a different thread by Barry because it had become tangential. The fact that Barry chose to "start" this thread with a post from me doesn't mean I started this conversation. If you look at my post that's now designated #1 in this thread, you'll see I was responding to comments on this subject made by you, arthunter. Let's try to keep our facts straight.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Kathy,

I'm getting the feeling that you're not really reading my words ... my questions to you are a few comments back in this thread ...

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I believe she is referring to this post.

TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS THREAD:

1) If you are getting individual email updates, click on the button on the bottom of your email:

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2) To remove it from your digest, click on the button below this post in your digest:

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Assuming these are the questions you think i didn't answer...well, a couple posts ago i added my dismay to yours about all of this. Really. All of it.

and no i do not trust our government not to abuse its power. but i do not think it has a vast coordinated network of people wreaking havoc in the lives and minds of regular people.

kathy

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

and also Kathy, ... how do you see our nation at the moment? ... do you think that it's right that we are all being spied upon? ... do you think that it's right that whistle-blowers are being jailed? ... do you think that it was right that the Occupy movement was infiltrated and destroyed? .... do you think that it's right that many that are trying to tell the truth are being destroyed with Cointelpro tactics? ...

Do you believe in cover ups? ... do you believe that our government has silenced many serious threats to government policy? .... ( both in the past and in the present ) ... do you believe that disinformation agents are present in abundance on the internet? ... do you believe that our government has engaged in non consensual experimentation? ... do you think that a lot of our government has been bought up by corporate interests?

do you trust our government not to abuse it's power?

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Oh sorry ... I had no idea ... well then thank you Barry for giving me the chance to present this information ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Wait a minute! I started this thread? No way! Not that it matters much, but just for the sake of accuracy, this thread was broken off from a different thread by Barry because it had become tangential. The fact that Barry chose to "start" this thread with a post from me doesn't mean I started this conversation. If you look at my post that's now designated #1 in this thread, you'll see I was responding to comments on this subject made by you, arthunter. Let's try to keep our facts straight.

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Thank you, Kathy, for addressing my questions ...

I asked them because often in life we have to "connect the dots" ... and if we see a general political trend of shredding the constitution and slowly eliminating many individual rights, including the rights of the press to report the truth, then I think that it's safe to assume that those that have power in this world are pushing things in this direction .... surveillance has been increased and political dissent has been suppressed ... this is obvious from the factual reports about the FBI infiltration of the Occupy movement, among other groups .....and what they did to those people closely follows what we know about past Cointelpro tactics ...

And who are those that have power in this world? ... I think that everyone agrees that it's big money ... oil executives, money lenders, etc. ... in other words the 1% ....

And these people have money to burn, literally ... hiring stalking gangs to take down and experiment on threatening figures in hopes of maintaining their control in the face of global unrest, wouldn't be a problem for them ... they own most of the planet including many of our politicians .... and in this case "threatening figures" could be anyone with guts and a brain ... if you listened to the Sonoma State interviews you learned that most targets have above average education and intelligence ... interesting ....

Now maybe something that you didn't know ....

The gang stalking protocol closely mirrors the attempts of the Stasi of East Germany ... here's a link to information about this famous protocol of control ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi

and it's a proven fact that the USA imported a lot of Nazis into this country under a project called "Operation Paperclip" ...

It's also well known that the American program entitled Cointelpro duplicated a lot of the psychological attacks of the Stasi protocol and that stalking was a part of those attacks ( see my report on Jean Seberg for verification of this ) ....

So, ... connect the dots ....

What do we know about gang stalking? ... we know that the internet coverage of it is extreme ... over 200,000 videos, mainstream news reports, huge support groups, verifiable Department of Justice reports, etc ... I've said it all before so I will not repeat myself ...

Also, just recently, Dr. Phil did a show on stalking and over 200 people wrote in to say that it was happening to them ... you should read the comments ... it's a real eye opener ... I'll paste the link at the bottom of this reply ..

And, btw, we do have another member of this online community who also reported stalking recently ... I've printed out these comments for my files .... oh, and once again, I have lots of personal proof of this protocol ....


In closing, it was "disbelief" that paved the way for the Nazis to assume control and do their dirty deeds .... Josef Mengele has been quoted as saying "The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it"... which leads me back to my statement about including "denial" and "cognitive dissonance" in this conversation ....

At this point I really do want to agree to disagree ... you seem like a nice person and going back and forth like this really isn't benefiting either one of us ... what I wanted to do with this entire discussion is to describe the protocol and warn people ... you can believe it or not, but I do think that I have achieved that objective ....

https://community.drphil.com/boards/?EntryID=36099&SubCategoryID=118&Page=1

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

Assuming these are the questions you think i didn't answer...well, a couple posts ago i added my dismay to yours about all of this. Really. All of it.

and no i do not trust our government not to abuse its power. but i do not think it has a vast coordinated network of people wreaking havoc in the lives and minds of regular people.

kathy

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a friend sent me this ... I found it interesting and it addresses a lot of the discussion on this thread ... the comments are interesting too ... there's an interesting theory in this article ... the author wonders if the government is doing this to certain vocal people knowing that they will complain publicly and this will silence any other activists .... I started thinking about this and I realized that there's a whole lot of information on FaceBook about Fema camps, coffins, and ammo purchases which might serve the same purpose ... just a thought ...

https://pennypincherpersonalfinance....ranoia-or.html

and to any one who suspects that this is happening in their lives, there's this ...

https://medawarscornflakes.blogspot....gstalking.html

another victim speaks out .... the military could not do this without the participation of hundreds who are joining in ... btw, the Michael Aquino who is mentioned in the video, lives in San Francisco ...

https://lisaleaks.com/2013/11/27/tar...ure-not-crazy/

just a listing of many more people internationally who are falling for the mass delusion ( sarcasm ) ... it's interesting to note that my husband starts suffering from strange physical ailments when I publish this stuff ...

https://peacepink.ning.com/profiles/...s-will-admit-3

a new video from Freedom from Covert Harrassment & Surveillance ...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202782060325420&set=vb.1017740880&type=2&theater


and they found Matt, the lawyer on Dr. Phil that was complaining about stalking ... his story ( regarding the Dr. Phil show ) is interesting and can be found in the conference call archives ...

This is a video of some of the testimony given to the Bioethics Committee in 2011 ... people suffering from delusions don't usually travel to Washington DC to get involved in politics ... what's interesting about this video from 2011 is the fact that absolutely nothing was done about this ... no publicity, no investigation, no protection ...

Some of the subjects discussed in this video are hard to swallow but there's proof of it all ... still, it took me many months of research before I believed it ... for implants look up James Walbert who won a court case about this ... for other torture there's Barrie Trower and Robert Duncan, both ex government employees who were involved with the development of these technologies ... Robert Duncan was featured on Jesse Ventura's Brain Invaders and his quote "I've empowered the dark side" has become famous ...

I am now being hurt for exposing this stuff ... I'm in good health with recent heart tests, cancer tests, and lung X-rays which were all normal, so if I suddenly disappear then be suspicious ... I am connected with hundreds of these victims and I am told that they try to discredit you first with a diagnosis of mental illness and if that doesn't work and you continue to expose this then they kill you in ways that resemble natural causes ... why do I do this? ... because they are torturing and destroying innocent people ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsCldP9Za7I

and a related link ...

https://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=11031

This is an interesting interview between Alex Jones and Dr. John Hall. I'm posting it because they discuss a lot of points which were discussed in this thread ... yes, Alex Jones has been discredited ... who knows? ... but Dr. John Hall has not been discredited, in fact his book is being made into a movie and he's gone on to give interviews on lots of radio stations across the country ... this is important information and there's a lot of fact discussed in this interview ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m7Gdx70sF4#t=914

A lot of the so called "targeted individuals" are whistle-blowers, that is they blew the whistle on criminal actions ... in my own case, I called the cops on criminals in my neighborhood ... shortly after that my garbage was stolen, my home and property were vandalized, and many cops in the community seemed to think that I was suddenly a "person of interest"....

We can put aside concerns about the involvement of community security groups for now, as they have probably been mislead ... we can also put aside concerns about non consensual government experimentation as a component of this corruption, though it is a reality that is circling the globe with awareness increasing ...

The point that I want to focus on is the very corruption which allows these things to happen ...

This is a video posted by a man in Michigan which tells the story ... I defy anyone to call this man "delusional" as he tries to protect his property and his family ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLv9vWDsl7k

Certainly interesting. If they believe electronic chips are being implanted in them, couldn't you just give them an MRI or x-ray and see if it's there or not. I see one of the supporters of this group is Coast to Coast AM, former radiio home of Art Bell.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Hi Kathy,

I included this piece because these guys are claiming that there are 300 victims hearing voices in the Palm Springs area ... that's incredible ...

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

A lot of the so called "targeted individuals" are whistle-blowers, that is they blew the whistle on criminal actions ... in my own case, I called the cops on criminals in my neighborhood ... shortly after that my garbage was stolen, my home and property were vandalized, and many cops in the community seemed to think that I was suddenly a "person of interest"....

We can put aside concerns about the involvement of community security groups for now, as they have probably been mislead ... we can also put aside concerns about non consensual government experimentation as a component of this corruption, though it is a reality that is circling the globe with awareness increasing ...

The point that I want to focus on is the very corruption which allows these things to happen ...

This is a video posted by a man in Michigan which tells the story ... I defy anyone to call this man "delusional" as he tries to protect his property and his family ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLv9vWDsl7k

---

OK, I'll bite. I watched this video. This guy was evicted from his house. At the appointed time the police showed up, took possession of the house and contents and turned it back to the rightful owner. The tenant doesn't like this and goes to the US Attorney and FBI, who has no jurisdiction. In fact no law enforcement entity has any likely legal basis to challenge any aspect of the eviction since by the time the police arrive to take the house back all legal avenues have been exhausted. The only thing left is the sour grapes this guy is tasting. He complains about intentional infliction of emotional distress but he hasn't a leg to stand on legally, refuses to let it go and move on. He's probably paranoid and mentally ill. After 3 freaking years he continues to demand the government help him but there is nothing they can do. He needs to move on with his life but is literally making a federal case out of a simple eviction. Now if he had only paid his rent..........

Here's some more information about this case ... I suggest that you read this before you accuse this man of anything ... he has proof of making payments and, in fact, he's a builder ... I think that his eviction has more to do with his desire to clean up corruption by running for sheriff ( second link ) .... the point here is that he is now being investigated as a criminal and that's the point that ties this case to this thread ... our justice system is being used by criminals for retaliation, meaning that, in some cases, it is corrupt ...

https://www.salem-news.com/articles/may042013/visner-michigan-tk.php

https://www.cm-life.com/2012/10/28/i...by-ted-visner/

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

OK, I'll bite. I watched this video. .....

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Meherc,

I am not an expert on electronic chip technology and I struggle to believe the reports just like most people would.... that being said, a man by the name of James Walbert actually won a court case about it when the defendant neglected to show up to court ... he had the support of Missouri Representative Jim Guest which helped ...

https://rudy2.wordpress.com/james-walbertsupport-from-missouri-rep-jim-guest/

My limited understanding of microchip technology does not convince me of it's non-existence ... yes, there has been testing to determine all of this ... you have to understand though that a lot of this technology comes under the heading of "non consensual experimentation" ... so if this is government funded research, and I believe that it is, then it can be conducted under the heading of "classified" meaning that gag orders will apply and anyone disclosing this information, including doctors who might initiate x-rays, are in danger of going to jail ... I am threatened constantly for writing about this and I continue to experience personal property vandalism ... unfortunately, our government has a long history of such experimentation ....

Here are a few links which might shed some light on this controversial subject ...

the first link is a very complete discussion about the entire subject, including the chronological history of the development of such technology ... scroll down to find this information .... they suggest that the intelligence community is linked with the "illuminati"... who knows ...

the second link contains a video of testing which was actually done by an advocacy group in Europe ...

the third link is Deborah Dupre's ( human right reporter ) take on the whole thing ...

https://geeldon.wordpress.com/category/implantable-microchips/

https://icaact.org/article-publications-report-on-rf-scanning-in-a-shielded-environment-icaact-phase-3-testing.html#.Uxn4JfEwlol

https://www.examiner.com/article/sec...emoval-surgery

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Posted in reply to the post by meherc:

Certainly interesting. If they believe electronic chips are being implanted in them, couldn't you just give them an MRI or x-ray and see if it's there or not. I see one of the supporters of this group is Coast to Coast AM, former radiio home of Art Bell.

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These two videos are circulating over the internet ... there is a growing awareness of these issues as thousands share information that is both credible and believable ... on the other side of the equation you have government trolls who are paid to portray all who share this information as delusional ... don't you believe it ... that being said, it took me a very long time to accept this technology and the fact that the government would be using it against innocent citizens ... still, when you look at our history of experimentation and do the research about advanced electronics, you start to realize that not only is this possible but it's also probable ... as most people are realizing, a lot of our government is now bought and paid for and protecting the interests of big money ... programs like Cointelpro and MKUltra are a proven fact with the goal of controlling dissent ... keep that in mind as you watch these videos ... this is just more of the same ....

Btw, there is now a Bay Area mayor who has agreed to investigate claims of gang stalking ... a bit of progress for those victims in the Bay Area ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63QvGPARi2Y&feature=youtu.be&a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ2fdxdGAsM

One of the best interviews that I've heard about the subject ... this is a threat that will affect all citizens not just the targets ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZMNoIB6w30

Meherc,

When you first asked this question I didn't really have much information about the subject ... today, this video was posted all over the internet ... this is James Walbert ... I've mentioned him many times ... this video is very informative ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xlkLsvzimI

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by meherc:

Certainly interesting. If they believe electronic chips are being implanted in them, couldn't you just give them an MRI or x-ray and see if it's there or not. I see one of the supporters of this group is Coast to Coast AM, former radiio home of Art Bell.

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Two new petitions aimed at stopping gang stalking ... what's it going to take?

I'm in touch with a lawyer and looking for witnesses ... I have three so far .... any heroes out there?


https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/en...b&r_by=1542734

https://www.change.org/petitions/u-s...o-surveillance

More about this:

https://emsecured.wordpress.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJYXOIEhsss

I remember one time I was walking down the street and I noticed that there were two ants behind me crawling in my direction.

Is this an example of a gangstalking conspiracy?

I was terrified that they were going to take me back to their nest and store me for the winter. But I outran them easily and laughed wildly in public.

Edward,

I think that you should start a thread about an antstalking conspiracy ...:wink:

This is serious business and now recognized by the Richmond police because of numerous complaints .... here's the search results on YouTube to give you an idea of the scope of this injustice ...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Entire+towns+Gang+Stalking+

Though some of these videos seem silly, with over 5400 videos about this topic on YouTube one would think that an investigation would be in order ....

I applaud your sensitivity regarding the Palestinian conflict ... perhaps you could apply that to your fellow Americans who are also under attack?

https://emsecured.wordpress.com/about/

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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:

I remember one time I was walking down the street and I noticed that there were two ants behind me crawling in my direction.

Is this an example of a gangstalking conspiracy?

I was terrified that they were going to take me back to their nest and store me for the winter. But I outran them easily and laughed wildly in public.

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

This is an interesting interview between Alex Jones and Dr. John Hall. I'm posting it because they discuss a lot of points which were discussed in this thread ... yes, Alex Jones has been discredited ... who knows? ... but Dr. John Hall has not been discredited, in fact his book is being made into a movie and he's gone on to give interviews on lots of radio stations across the country ... this is important information and there's a lot of fact discussed in this interview ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m7Gdx70sF4#t=914

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Please click on the following link to see a collection of Dr John Hall's Interviews (16 interviews on Gang Stalking) on the net

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...rhvDs05tKgqIsc

You can also go to my Youtube Channel 'OrganizedStalking ChennaiCity' and click on the PLAYLISTS section to see Playlist Dr John Hall interviews. Please also see playlist Targeted Individuals Celebrities

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...WUHIHTVJ4rn3Ml


I am a victim of Organized Stalking / Gang Stalking in Chennai, India for the past 6 years.

OSCHENNAI