Another democrat dumpster fire. Hahahaha
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Another democrat dumpster fire. Hahahaha
Hmm. Seems you're delighting in what you believe to be an embarrassment to the "other side" in your reified partisan politics. And here I thought we were conducting an investigation to confirm that our leader -- in one of the most powerful positions in the world -- did not engage in unethical, treasonous, and potentially illegal activity. Would you truly rather take the risk that that happens without any accountability?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
A made up fake investigation with lies to obtain fisa warrants. What's embarrassing is watching Democrats not accept the results of an election and now people like schiff and swallwell and most Democrats won't accept the Mueller report under any circumstance if they don't like facts that wouldn't pin trump to Russia.
and will you accept Mueller's report if it does pin trump to Russia?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
Yes sir I would hold him accountable if he broke the law. Just like we held HRC accountable for Benghazi and the email security breach.
Thank you for a totally vacuous negative worthless comment. This sounds like a 3 year old doing a "gotcha"... surely you have something more perceptive and worthwhile to add to the conversation? I am frustrated with people from various political positions gratuitously talking smack, making up "facts", name calling, and jumping to conclusions with partial or incomplete information. I had thought this was a more intelligent and "enlightened" community. But on the other hand I see how inclusive it is...
Bruce in Jenner
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Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
Can we please not feed the trolls?
Lol. Your fake Russia crap is now over. Wonder how many Democrats trump bought and paid for when he was a business man
"made up" -- in what sense?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
"fake" -- in what sense? Justify, please.
"investestigation with lies to obtain fisa warrants." Examples, please.
Your hyperbolic nonsense makes you look like an idiot. Much like the president you seem to emulate, to your detriment.
Says the person who can't spell. And I'm the dumb one. Lmao
Simple Google search. You can do your own reading on the topic of the lies used to obtain warrants.
CA progressives are a joke.
Highest taxes
Worst roads
Horrible public school education system
High fuel taxes
High sales taxes
High dmv taxes
Highest homeless population
In SF you can get a job picking up human poop.
All controlled by your party for the last 20 years plus.
Yeah I must be some dumb hillbilly
Looks like our new auto-bot, Travis Pisors (TNT Farms) has only been a waccobb member for about a week now (joined 3/15/19), so go easy on him...
I wonder if he is the same TP that owns North Coast Logistics Inc in Reynoldsburg, Ohio?
Oh no. Im new here. Wow that's original.
I would hope you progressives would apologize for 22 months of wasting taxpayer dollars. But you won't.
After reading the comments on this topic, I found I was holding my breath, my heart starting to race, and suddenly I stopped, and questioned what's happening in this conversation that we can't all stop and wait until the entire report is submitted to our view? Why take sides and increase the hard feelings? This has been so stressful for everyone who loves democracy, and want to see the facts. So how about a deep breath for every side, wait until we have all the facts, even if we don't like them, or like some of them. I want to see everything so that I can decide for myself. We can't make that decision for each other no matter how hard and loud we scream. Just please, stop with all the anger and hate. We are all better than this.
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Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
Trump was not completely exonerated. There was simply insufficient evidence. And many of the criminals around him were indicted.
Gotta hand it to the Russians--they know how to cover their tracks. Brilliant hackers over there.
Indicted for things from years ago. Nothing to do with trump or the campaign.
The only thing fishy is the sloppy daniels payment for campaign funds. But hey Obama cheated as well. Paid the largest fine in us election history
Real progressives have not (or at least should not have) focused their energies on the Mueller investigation. For example, if you have followed Senator Sanders for the last two years, he has been tirelessly (with more energy and drive at 75 than I had at 35) fighting for striking union members, fighting for progressive down ballot candidates all over the country, fighting for minimum wage increases in states all over the country, turning Medicare for All into a majority supported issues, and on and on and on (not waiting for Mueller to save us).Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
I never expected much from the Mueller investigation and it did somewhat amuse me how so many liberals somehow put so much faith in the FBI, CIA, and a long-time Republican federal prosecutor (which is what Mueller self-explicitly is). But it garnered numerous convictions and was a run of the mill investigation that sought to show the public that there is some level of checks on our corrupt system (but was never going to take down a presidency that is so beneficial to the elites and the corporate military industrial complex, just because he's an odious human being; can't let that get in the way of making money). Besides that, the only real problem with the investigation is that it wasn't just left to run its course without so much prognosticating in the media, and that it absorbed so much energy and focus of progressives, who would have been better off following Bernie's example of just continuing to fight like he's somehow, amazingly done for 50 straight years (15 years of advocacy was all I had in me and it left me utterly depleted).
The main point to consider (and yes I say this out of bias as a Sanders supporter) is what all the build up over the past two years and the let down in the Mueller conclusions will do to the chances of an establishment Democrat. All the anti-establishment sentiment that propelled Trump into office is going to grow from the way this turned out, and its time that the left tapped back into its anti-establishment roots from a much more positive perspective. I think this outcome makes Sanders much more likely to beat Trump than a Biden or an O'Rourke. If Mueller had forcefully asserted Trump committed crimes and Trump still hung in there and ran for re-election, then I would have been more open to believing that a Biden type candidate (or a Klobuchar) would be the most likely to beat him.
Eco.
Very well stated. The problem with the Bernie train. We can't afford it. We would cease to be a country if we just give out taxpayers money to the less fortunate. Sanders is just another Uber rich white guy with 3 or 4 homes, luxury cars and a wife who is corrupt and up on bank fraud charges.
Yeah, I reckon I agree with your hillbilly statement.
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Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
an immense amount of 'news' these days isn't. There was no reason for two days worth of discussion of the Mueller report over the weekend; it would have sufficed to say "it's been delivered, we should hear in a few days" and "we got a four page summary"... nothing in the middle helped. That's just one example. The actual information available really doesn't change all that often. Except for fans of inside baseball, there probably won't be any real news regarding the investigations until the various committees make some decision about further lawsuits or hearings. If you wait two weeks or more, ignoring it in the meantime, you could catch up on any 'news' in a few minutes.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by cw707:
So that's your answer - any of us who can't stop are just playing around for fun (??). Personally, I disagree with characterizing it as anger, much less hate. TNT is smirking 'cuz he thinks they're winning, which is his prerogative. I and others may beg to differ, and I've commented some myself on the tone of some posters. But there's a lot of evidence that no, we're not better than this -- and really, this isn't that bad. Trump gets me angry, and his supporters make me sad, but I certainly don't hate them. I don't think they hate me either, I just think they might enjoy seeing me suffer a little for the error of my ways.
So we should trust what Adam Schiff has to say? For two years the man has been a puppet on CNN spouting evidence of crimes and collusion by the president. Mueller and his team found no wrong doing. Could even indict one crime related to Russia. Not one.
These indictments where process crimes. In manaforts case. Crimes for 13 years ago. Cohen crimes for years ago.
Whether you like it or not trump is the duly elected president. We all lived through the disasters under Obama and bush. You will live through Trump for 6 more years.
No one has seen the full Mueller report yet, except Trump's own newly appointed AG. He has only released his own summary, so we don't know yet what the details are until the total report is given to Congress or released to the public media. If there is nothing to hide, then why not release it in it's entirety? Also, why has Trump still refused to release his tax returns, as he promised he would do before the election? Another broken promise, like Mexico paying for his wall.
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Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
In his still-confidential report, Mueller stopped short of drawing a conclusion about whether the president obstructed justice, writing that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him,” according to a summary by Attorney General William P. Barr released Sunday.
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Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
I believe that the Special Council is running a tidy profit from all the graft that he confiscated from Paul Manifort and othersQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
Richard
Kinda of like you can keep your doctor and you can keep your plan. Your rates will go down on average or 2500 per year. Or the redline in Syria? Or the lies on Benghazi? Or the illegal gun running into Mexico? Or the only ag in history to be held in contempt?
Feel free to finish reading the summary. Then let me know. Clearly says not enough evidence of any obstruction or collision
Your media lied for 3 years.
Roughly thirteen months ago, George Noory of Coast-to-Coast AM, interviewed Stephen Cohen, professor of Soviet-American Relations at NYU, on the subject of the charge of Putin's meddling in the 2016 election. Stephen Cohen's wife is the editor of The Nation magazine. As he himself says, he is not a supporter of Trump and he did not campaign for him, nevertheless...
Here is the link for the interview. Very important information, from a liberal academic. To cut to the chase, begin at around 9:20...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDRRAhAji4
He won't be a liberal for long. Like the great Alan dershowitz. They will turn on him.
I have been following Noam Chomsky and Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist Glen Greenwald on this subject from the get go. And I am sad that most Americans appear to have gotten most of their information from our mainstream media with little critical thinking or reading on the subject to balance television reporting.
Today on Democracy Now - Amy Goodman hosts a debate between Greenwald and his once close colleague David Johnston. The two reporters became grossly divided over this issue. The debate is quite heated.
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/3/..._collusion_did
Mueller states unequivocally that there was no collusion between Trump and Russia. Greenwald makes this salient point again and again. Barr's interpretation of the lengthy report does not skew this fact in anyway. Trumps criminality and legendary corruption on the other hand is where our focus should be. But Mueller said weeks ago and is on record saying he didn't believe there was collusion. Michael Cohen also makes that clear in his testimony there was no intentional collusion just a focus on erecting Trump's Tower in Moscow.
The disturbing truth is that the mainstream media has focused so heavily on this issue for the past two years, that critical issues like climate change and the horrific take over of the EPA by Trump corporate goons has gotten very little attention.
Greenwald makes the critical point that America has a long history of meddling and overthrowing democratically elected governments. It is our legacy - anyone who has studied American history knows this. Most of our coups were orchestrated by our CIA for financial and military interests. "Allies" like Saudi Arabia and Israel (human rights abusers - get off scott free by both parties). A great book to read on America Empire was just released: How To Hide An Empire
Yes, the Mueller Report was leaked, and was available on SCRIBD early yesterday; I learned that in the afternoon, on the page of the facebook group "Dissenter/Disenter." But then the leak was also quickly hacked and plugged, and if you were to check out the manuscript of the Mueller Report that was up on SCRIBD earlier, this is what you would see. A perfect example of Company humor:
https://www.scribd.com/document/4028...loUinXNghXz-EY
Typical totalitarian government response Elder...discredit and demean any opposing (non-acceptable group think opinions).
Bot, who needs bots when we have mindless "useful idiots" regurgitating the deep state party line?
Group mind control works.
Clearly, anyone who disagrees with you is to be feared, discredited, disparaged and done away with as soon as possible.
No dialogue, no trial, guilty as charged (by you).
Sort of like what Castro did; kill tens of thousands of those whose ideas threatened him after he took power espousing "power to the people" and "social justice" to his ignorant supporters.
Thank god you people don't have more power; all Trump supporters and anyone who disagrees with you would be in camps within the week...
This all reminds me why I moved out of the Soviet Socialist Republic of Sebastopol.
Too many self-righteous hypocrites.
Notice, most laws are for controlling your behavior, not the people who make them.
I bet you can't watch this all the way through without your head exploding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhAoDE2K1wM
Have a nice day.
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Posted in reply to the post by John Eder:
uh, how 'bout "anyone who comes out gloating, taunting and mocking is to be discredited and disparaged". I see about zero evidence of fear -- that's wishful thinking on your part? -- and neither you nor he have been 'done away with'. Though loss of a forum for your odd choices in political cartoons may feel like death. The disparagement seems to be mutual, that's kind of what TNT is all about, and discrediting, though he seems to think he's doing that too, requires some factual backing. I haven't seen him or you discredit anyone successfully yet.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ray50sfo:
Lol. Democrats don't like facts. Unless they fit there narrative. For 3 years they been lying about a fake dossier to obtain spying warrants. Even the commie Jim Brennan is backpedaling his fearmongering about trump and Russia. Eric holder the same.
The got caught, Instead of saying hey the investigation is over and there was no evidence of obstruction or collusion. Shifty will just open up more fake investigations.
Be funny to see how that platform will work for them in 2020. Trump's new campaign slogan.
Can you show us what the Democrats have done in last 4 years.
You're amusing; you know very well that the Mueller investigation was a Republican scam and distraction foisted on gullible liberals, and NOT a progressive effort.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
Look at the timing of the release of this: "moderate" Republicans were just finally feeling compelled to stand up to Trump's BS and a dozen of them voted against his "emergency declaration" and Democrats were finally clearing their eyes of their little visions of sugarplums of a Republican ex-FBI prosecutor coming to save them and doing some real work, and of course that all gets derailed by the release of the Mueller report.
And this is after 2 years of Democrats failing to fight Trump effectively on substance because they were all obsessed about vindicating Hillary and attributing her loss to Russian Facebook trolls (America has meddled in the elections of nearly every country on the planet to the point where its not all that rare for us to blatantly assassinate a duly elected leader and install a dictator . . . whom we years later decide we need to overthrow on humanitarian grounds by invading the country and reducing it to rubble, but I'm going to get upset about Facebook trolls meddling in OUR elections; how dare they, the nerve!!!!). So democrats were getting their [stuff] together finally and that's when Mueller decides to drop his conclusions???
And look at the Trump game of attacking Mueller so that all the Democrats run to protect him and look to him as their savior. So now that Mueller claims no crimes, look at the corner the Democrats were boxed into by this scam.
Do you think that Trump cares that Manafort and a few of his cronies had to be sacrificed to effectuate this scam? Of course not! That's the price some made-men have to pay so that the don stays teflon (those of you not from Jersey or Brooklyn brush up on your Sopranos if you don't follow that sentence).
Democrats should be rejoicing that this farce is over and start fighting on substance (although too many will want to retreat to "moderation" and be cowed by this). I'm so sick of democrats being dismissive of those fighting for progressive values consistently for decades but keep dreaming of a republican savior; I mean Jeff Flake, some nobody Republican senator from Arizona was a liberal hero for a few months simply because he said one or two reasonable things about Trump. Bob Mueller is a Republican, ex-FBI, ex-prosecutor who stands for nothing that I stand for and I don't care what he says about Trump one way or the other.
Sorry, no head explosions- just massive vomit and diaharrea. I’ll forward the carpet cleaning bill to you...
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Posted in reply to the post by ray50sfo:
Tell me again how many Republican attorneys where again? Other then Mueller, who by all accounts of your media is a stand up guy
Eder a typical socialist who wants someone else to pay to clean up his vomit.
Oh, not discussing this further, but I actually do want to apologize to the list for my second response to you being sent publicly. My first response was certainly appropriate for public posting but my second really was more appropriate for just responding privately because of its tone and breadth of targets. I'm used to family members with completely opposite politics and because of my cultural background/political views divergence I've done things like occupy a logging road by day and shoot the sh*t playing pool with loggers at night in some dive so I don't take these types of discussions personally, and I'm only a member of this "conscious" community bulletin board because I sometimes rent out rooms (I don't even really know what the non-literal meaning of being "conscious" is, but assume my way of discussing politics isn't likely in tune with that, which is why I've never posted here before; though that seems like it could be said for quite a few people on this list).Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by TNTfarms:
huh? that was the good one!Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ecojaf:
Good? To print and use to start a fire?
Still waiting on that evidence Adam shifty says he has. Like ex cia Brennan. Oh well. I thought I had more knowledge and evidence then what's there.
Add me to your list like AOC.
Cow farts matter
In his first new episode of “The Late Show” since Robert Mueller delivered his report to Attorney General Robert Barr, Stephen Colbert did his best to balance frustration with humility.
“Fair is fair,” he said. “Barr says Mueller says there was no collusion between Trump and Russia, so we have to cross collusion off the list of reasons Trump is unfit to be president.”
Then Colbert got literal. “Fellas, bring out the board,” he cried, and out came a whiteboard filled with a list of controversial things Trump has said or done.
Reading through items like “put kids in cages,” “gave security clearance to his son-in-law,” “repeatedly humped flag” and “all that birther stuff,” Colbert eventually found his way to “colluded with Russia,” and erased it. A list with dozens of other items remained.
Then he flipped the board over, revealing another list on the opposite side. “I really want to be fair to him. I should also cross off ‘Mueller’ from the list of Trump investigations,” Colbert said, now revealing a list of the 17 legal investigations into Trump by New York’s attorney general, various House committees and other government bodies.
Colbert erased the Mueller investigation from this list. “Sir, it’s gone,” he announced to Trump. “That must be 1/17th of a weight off your shoulders.”
Not to overlook Jimmy Kimmel: "Basically, Trump got in the White House the same way Lori Loughlin got her kid into USC.”
I hope you'll come back again, Eco. Your passion is enlivening. :-)
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Posted in reply to the post by ecojaf:
Everybody needs a therapy room in their home where they can let it all out!!
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Posted in reply to the post by cw707:
Obama administration not only put kids in so called cages. They also released these kids to human trafficking rings.
Should we investigate Obama people for gun running?
Or lying on national TV about Benghazi..
Or you can keep your doctor you can keep your plan. The American people will save money by forcing you into the ACA
Well, I believe the substance, I just regretted mentioning Senator Clinton's name even in passing (I don't want to be goaded into being divisive on the left for no good reason) and using the adjective "gullible" to describe those that were counting on Mueller because maybe they weren't (and don't know people on this list well enough to be friendly "trash-talking", though where I come from its always appropriate); it was quite a show.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
But those claiming that the Deep State were coming after Trump, now have to ask themselves what does it mean when the DS stops coming after Trump? Is Trump now their boy? I mean he promised all the military families that he would bring their sons and daughters home from our endless wars; and people believed that he actually would take on the military-industrial complex. So maybe those folks were right that the DS had it in for him. So when he announces that he's bringing the troops home from Syria and DS spook Bolton publicly announces the next day that they are not (and they stay), are you asking yourself if the beneficial timing and results of the Mueller report indicate that the DS is now comfortable that Trump is controllable. If you believe a DS conspiracy was behind Mueller investigation then the only plausible conclusion for why the DS would let him off the hook (after making look like his kids were going to do time) is that he's now in the fold.
Who said that? Shifty will never let this go. He's in to deep now.
For the next two years it will still be the same hate trump message from the left. Which in my opinion is great. Cause we will have 4 straight years of the left that did nothing for the American people.
You brainiacs on the left can't even make a daca deal that trump offered. Cryin Chuck asked for 800k daca to be protected. Trump offers 1.8 million and in return give us some border protection funds.
Ralph Nader today
Look How the Real Trump is Endangering America
Special Counsel Robert Mueller spent almost two years to produce a $25 million report that is a flat tire. Still unreleased in full to the American people, Trump’s acolyte, Attorney General William Barr, a longtime friend of Republican Mueller, gave us what Trump long craved—by stating that “the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities” during the 2016 election. As for obstruction of justice by Trump, Attorney General Barr cryptically burped, that “The Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him”—whatever that means. Give people the whole report now, as the House of Representatives voted 420 to 0 to do.
What a farce and distraction this whole exercise turned out to be! Mueller’s assigned subject was Trump. So, does this prosecutor demand to interview Trump, to subpoena Trump? No. Does this special investigator conclude with any legal recommendations at all? No. He just wants to be forgotten as he slinks away into deliberate silence (unless he is made to testify before the House Judiciary Committee).
Really, what should we have expected from someone who, as FBI Director, testified before Congress as part of the Bush/Cheney regime, pushing for the criminal invasion of Iraq in 2003?
The assignment to Mueller was doomed from the start. Its charge was far too narrow and proof in such matters is very difficult to find. Intent to collude requires direct examination of the President himself. But why would Trump have to collude at all? The Russians interfered in his favor in various ways to the detriment of Hillary Clinton and all he had to do was accept such foreign largess.
An inquiry into Trump and all his business deals and business proposals with various governments point to Trump’s disregard for the law. By the way, whatever happened to the IRS audit that Tricky Donald kept using as an excuse in 2016 for not releasing these voluminous tax records depicting suspicious relations that Pulitzer Prize winner David Cay Johnston has written about for years (see his book The Making of Donald Trump)?
Continues here
coincidentally I was reading from the lying MSM and found this relevant bit:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ray50sfo:
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Hannity should do a little reading. On Oct. 31, 2016 — one week before the presidential election — the New York Times published an influential story under this headline: “Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia.”
as for avoiding trash-talking on this group, I think that ship has sailed a long time ago :)Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ecojaf:
I do like DS conspiracies, though (as compared to chemtrails etc. which make no sense). Most DS conspiracies go so far that they're not credible, but if you keep it modest you can make a plausible case for them. I don't really believe them for a minute, but they can be fun. I think it's far more plausible that these people are all 'family' (e.g. the press-club dinner, anyone?) and swimming in the same sewer outflow, breathing the same water, that they don't even notice their own 'collusion'. They're mostly all members of the same club and act like it. Stray too far and you do get censured/ostracized, but no-one has to be direct about it or even really acknowledge that's what's going on. Trump was never a member in good standing, though he was one by birth, so he gets a bit of the rougher treatment. And deserves it.
Why is everyone on both sides jumping to conclusions about the Mueller report when nobody except Trump's hand picked Attorney General has even read it? Even the AG's synopsis doesn't claim that Trump has been "exonerated" by this report. Now comes the struggle between Congress and the AG regarding delayed submission and redaction...
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Posted in reply to the post by ecojaf: